NationStates Jolt Archive

An interesting article (http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/06/29/opinion/edwang.php) on why rumours and urban legends persist as well as a better means of countering false information.

False beliefs are everywhere. Eighteen percent of Americans think the sun revolves around the earth, one poll has found. Thus it seems slightly less egregious that, according to another poll, 10 percent of us think that Senator Barack Obama, a Christian, is instead a Muslim. The Obama campaign has created a Web site to dispel misinformation. But this effort may be more difficult than it seems, thanks to the quirky way in which our brains store memories - and mislead us along the way.

It's not entirely people's fault that they hold stupid beliefs, the idea is that if you repeat something often enough, it simply becomes lodged in the brain.

Every time we recall it [information], our brain writes it down again, and during this re-storage, it is also reprocessed. In time, the fact is gradually transferred to the cerebral cortex and is separated from the context in which it was originally learned. For example, you know that the capital of California is Sacramento, but you probably don't remember how you learned it.

This phenomenon, known as source amnesia, can also lead people to forget whether a statement is true. Even when a lie is presented with a disclaimer, people often later remember it as true.

Journalists and campaign workers may think they are acting to counter misinformation by pointing out that it is not true. But by repeating a false rumor, they may inadvertently make it stronger. In its concerted effort to "stop the smears," the Obama campaign may want to keep this in mind. Rather than emphasize that Obama is not a Muslim, for instance, it may be more effective to stress that he embraced Christianity as a young man.

So, I guess there needs to be a question here...

Any misperceptions you know of that are commonly held but actually untrue?

So, I guess there needs to be a question here...

Any misperceptions you know of that are commonly held but actually untrue?

Fish is brainfood.

That's actually backwards; brains are fishfood. I can prove it....

18% of Americans think the Sun revolves around the earth? Did they say what ages were polled? We can't be THAT bad at teaching!

Any misperceptions you know of that are commonly held but actually untrue?
Almost every 'urban fact' like that the tongue is the strongest muscle.

That Columbus "discovered" that the world was not flat, when people had already known that for a very long time.

That people are born only either biologically male or female.

That humans are the only animals that have sex face-to-face.

Lets see... Obama was born as the son of a muslim father, has a middle name with the layout of the letters H-S-N which is a religious sign muslim parents give their sons, he went to a muslim school as a kid and recieved training on the Koran and muslim teachings.

It doesn't matter WHAT he may call himself now, by the teachings of the Koran and Mohammad he WAS a Muslim because he was BORN a muslim, and the Koran does not allow a muslim to convert.

Which means he is STILL a Muslim by Muslim law.

If Micheal Jackson tried saying "I'm a White man now" in the middle of a KKK meeting, do you think they'd believe him?

If Obama says "I'm not a muslim" in a muslim country, they won't believe him either.


Doesn't matter how often you call a dog a cat, it's still a dog, and Obama's still a muslim.

Fish is brainfood.

That's actually backwards; brains are fishfood. I can prove it....

Hmmm... that probably explains the origins of clownfish. They ate LG's brains. :p

*snip*

Although I'm tempted to say they got this one's brains instead.

That everyone dies in aviation accidents.

That aircrafts can fly without falling apart is nothing short of a miracle.

That a little wing flex is a bad thing

That if the engines on the aircraft stop working, that the aircraft will just drop out of the sky like a rock.

You think I'm kidding..but heh...I'm not.

Don't even get me started on Chem Trails....

Lets see... Obama was born as the son of a muslim father, has a middle name with the layout of the letters H-S-N which is a religious sign muslim parents give their sons, he went to a muslim school as a kid and recieved training on the Koran and muslim teachings.

It doesn't matter WHAT he may call himself now, by the teachings of the Koran and Mohammad he WAS a Muslim because he was BORN a muslim, and the Koran does not allow a muslim to convert.

Which means he is STILL a Muslim by Muslim law.

If Micheal Jackson tried saying "I'm a White man now" in the middle of a KKK meeting, do you think they'd believe him?

If Obama says "I'm not a muslim" in a muslim country, they won't believe him either.


Doesn't matter how often you call a dog a cat, it's still a dog, and Obama's still a muslim.

By that token, everyone you've ever known who's passed away is and will always be a Mormon. We're all converted by the LDS Church after our deaths, and the LDS Church says it's binding.

Subtext: You're a moron.

That everyone dies in aviation accidents.

Only when there are no survivors. :p


That aircrafts can fly without falling apart is nothing short of a miracle.


It is, considering that they try to make them as cheap as possible these days... :eek:


That a little wing flex is a bad thing


Depends on your definition of "little"


That if the engines on the aircraft stop working, that the aircraft will just drop out of the sky like a rock.

An aerodynamic rock. *nods*


You think I'm kidding..but heh...I'm not.


If you're secretly Ruffie, you could be. :D


Don't even get me started on Chem Trails....

But you've already started, how do we start you again? :p

Only when there are no survivors. :p

Oh trust me, I have heard idiots always talking about how no one survives an aviation accidents. I wish I could just slap them silly and prevent them from reproducing.



It is, considering that they try to make them as cheap as possible these days... :eek:

From what I've seen, aircrafts are coming out with better and newer technology in safety as well as aircraft construction (composite FTW), which make the aircraft safer. Now the problem is maintenance. Sadly, that is where airlines do try to cut cost.

Depends on your definition of "little"

It is better for the wings or anything for that matter to have some flex then to be hard and ungiving, thus making it more brittle and prone to breaking.

An aerodynamic rock. *nods*

True, but people forget that aircrafts have wings, and guess what, they still work even when the engines doesn't! Freaking amazing isn't it?!

If you're secretly Ruffie, you could be. :D

I doubt Ruffie is easily annoyed by idiots like I am. You know, it's amazing my blood pressure is actually normal....

But you've already started, how do we start you again? :p

Well you'll have to crank me back up, but I'd prefer a female to do the cranking if ya get my drift. ;) :D

18% of Americans think the Sun revolves around the earth? Did they say what ages were polled? We can't be THAT bad at teaching!

There's no teaching some people.

Perhaps it's a form of memory dyslexia, it's two round things revolving, hard to remember which revolves around the other.

On that, apparently it's a myth that dyslexia is a condition.

It doesn't matter WHAT he may call himself now, by the teachings of the Koran and Mohammad he WAS a Muslim because he was BORN a muslim, and the Koran does not allow a muslim to convert.So what? Why should we humour them? Does something have to be considered true just because some people say it is and refuse to hear otherwise?

Which means he is STILL a Muslim by Muslim law. Note, however, that Obama doesn't life in Iran. Muslim law does not apply to him.

If Obama says "I'm not a muslim" in a muslim country, they won't believe him either.So what; if I say "America isn't really satan", they wouldn't believe me either. What does it matter what they believe? They could believe the sun revolves around the earth for all I care, it wouldn't make it true.

Subtext: You're a moron.Well, I guess if someone believing it makes it true, I'll just have to accept this fact.

By that token, everyone you've ever known who's passed away is and will always be a Mormon. We're all converted by the LDS Church after our deaths, and the LDS Church says it's binding.

Subtext: You're a moron.

Probably quite true, just as true as we are all in hell when we die, because there are more than 2 churches saying everyone NOT in their church is going to hell when they die.

So heaven must be empty and hell filling up.


a quote I agree with is "Everything is true, for a given value of true."

Anyone who makes up his own religion just to get out of a hole (get rid of his wife, King Henry and the Anglican church) or to gain benefits (L Ron Hubbard and Scientology), or to get a bunch of followers of his own (Mohammad the mad camel salesman and Islamicism) is a dickhead.

Just stick with what you are and don't fuck around making up a new religion, there's enough already. I could probably manage to start a cult, but it's likely to saty a cult of 1 (me) unless I managed to screw the tax department into classing me as a tax break, in which case I'd soon have a bunch of rich converts praying for tax refunds.

But why bother? I'm happy to stay a Presbyterian. The mormons are welcome to do whatever they like after I'm dead. Once my souls gone where ever souls go, why should it care what a bunch of nutters say it is?

18% of Americans think the Sun revolves around the earth? Did they say what ages were polled? We can't be THAT bad at teaching!

yeah... i was hoping that might be a 'false belief' (ie made up fact) to illustrate the point. maybe.


Doesn't matter how often you call a dog a cat, it's still a dog, and Obama's still a muslim.
quick question: why does it matter? :confused:

Oh trust me, I have heard idiots always talking about how no one survives an aviation accidents. I wish I could just slap them silly and prevent them from reproducing.


You'll need more than slaps to do that.


From what I've seen, aircrafts are coming out with better and newer technology in safety as well as aircraft construction (composite FTW), which make the aircraft safer. Now the problem is maintenance. Sadly, that is where airlines do try to cut cost.


Still a miracle they still fly then neh? :p


It is better for the wings or anything for that matter to have some flex then to be hard and ungiving, thus making it more brittle and prone to breaking.


But my jello aircraft never work out! *whines*


True, but people forget that aircrafts have wings, and guess what, they still work even when the engines doesn't! Freaking amazing isn't it?!

Well, unless it's very wide wings, and there's plenty of updraft, it's still going down anyway. A very aerodynamic rock indeed.


I doubt Ruffie is easily annoyed by idiots like I am. You know, it's amazing my blood pressure is actually normal....

It's those XL veins and arteries. They'll do your blood pressure a treat. *nods*


Well you'll have to crank me back up, but I'd prefer a female to do the cranking if ya get my drift. ;) :D

Crank you up? That's so old fashioned. Electric ignition is where the present, and future lies. Now if only I could work out how to make this taser give less than lethal doses. :p

In the end its all repitition. if you get told something once its false. 10 times and it may be true. 100 times and it is true and if its 1000 times its beyond all logic true. (by different people)

please dont spam something 100 or 1000 times

In the end we get raised by the people around us and develop due to the people around us. If you trust someone and they say something you will most likely think its true altho it could be complete crap

Sadly too feq people today are willing to make up their minds of their own. Its much easier to follow your closest mass

"False beliefs are everywhere. Eighteen percent of Americans think the sun revolves around the earth, one poll has found. Thus it seems slightly less egregious that, according to another poll, 10 percent of us think that Senator Barack Obama, a Christian, is instead a Muslim. The Obama campaign has created a Web site to dispel misinformation. But this effort may be more difficult than it seems, thanks to the quirky way in which our brains store memories - and mislead us along the way."

This is a pretty bad comparison. First of all to compare people's trust for Obama vs a century worth of cosmology data is ridiculous. I don't know about Obama's personal life, why should I trust him and his website as much as I do earth revolving around the sun? Hell last I check I can't even be sure if a guy who goes to church every Sunday is truly a Christian, or just some guy who's trying to get a girl in church. It's not like you can probe Obama's mind the way you would the Sun with a telescope.

Secondly, you can't really claim absoluteness in both science and what someone believes. Sun vs Earth can be see in as many way as you want. Space is space and has no defining points. Just because the earth have a smaller gravitational field and have less of an impact of space-time vs the sun doesn't mean we have to look at it in the sun's perspective. People simply decided to focus on the sun because it is creates the biggest warping of space-time in the solar system. "The sun revolve around the earth" by itself isn't even a false statement.

As for Obama, no I don't read mind. I don't know for absolute what he believes in. I can only make educated guess base on his history.

If the article want to claim source amnesia, then maybe they should start using more "white or black" examples than those 2.

"The sun revolve around the earth" by itself isn't even a false statement.

It's about as false as "2+2=5"

If the article want to claim source amnesia, then maybe they should start using more "white or black" examples than those 2.

It does if you care to read the article...

In one study, a group of Stanford students was exposed repeatedly to an unsubstantiated claim taken from a Web site that Coca-Cola is an effective paint thinner. Students who read the statement five times were nearly one-third more likely than those who read it only twice to attribute it to Consumer Reports (rather than The National Enquirer, their other choice), giving it a gloss of credibility.

People who comment on things they haven't properly read are ignorant, I don't even need to repeat the statement to make it true but I will.

People who comment on things they haven't properly read are ignorant.

It's about as false as "2+2=5"

Right because when the earth spins it really couldn't be interpret as the universe spinning around it.

Let's try this instead, when you are on the train, you can say that you are moving forward, or the world is moving behind you. The relationship is the same and it doesn't require you to break any laws of physics in viewing the situation either way.

2+2 does not = 5, because mathematic does not change base on perceptions. Not that I know of at least.

Right because when the earth spins it really couldn't be interpret as the universe spinning around it.

Let's try this instead, when you are on the train, you can say that you are moving forward, or the world is moving behind you. The relationship is the same and it doesn't require you to break any laws of physics in viewing the situation either way.


Wait, wait, wait. You're trying to take flawed perceptions, apply weird philosophical constructs, apply physics to it, and then say no laws are broken?


2+2 does not = 5, because mathematic does not change base on perceptions. Not that I know of at least.

Reality doesn't change based on perceptions either. If we were to use your argument, how about we do this then? I take a loaded gun, I point the barrel at you, and I pull the trigger.

When the police come, I argue that I didn't shoot you. You sucked the bullet out of the firing chamber and into your chest. Perfectly valid argument then no?

Or maybe I'll push you off a tall building. And rather than saying I pushed you off, you pulled me forward to knock into you, and the ground rushed up to meet you rather than you fell down and went splat.

Perceptions, especially flawed ones != facts.

yeah... i was hoping that might be a 'false belief' (ie made up fact) to illustrate the point. maybe.Well, it's the actual result of an actual poll. Whether it's valid, however, is another matter.
If someone walked up to you and said "Hello, I'm doing a poll; do you think the sun revolves around the earth, or that the earth revolves around the sun, or neither?" What do you think the chances are someone just takes the piss and answers the joke option?
Just because someone said something in a poll doesn't necessarily mean they believe it.

It does if you care to read the article...

Maybe they shouldn't use the title "your brain lies to you" then going ahead and compare how if people can believe sun revolve around the earth, the they can believe Obama is a Muslim. If there's any source amnesia involve, it will be that you forgot about the article but remember something like "people are pretty stupid to think that Obama is like a Muslim, kinna like how some people think the sun revolve around the earth, but I forgot where I got that from".

Some call it propaganda, some call it social engineering through the media, other might say it is a harmless title to catch views attention to increase sell.

Reality doesn't change based on perceptions either.But the description of it does change depending on perception. And thanks to relativity you cannot have an objective description of reality.
You'd think that an event A happening before an event B would be a pretty objective fact; but in different inertial frames the order can be reversed.

When the police come, I argue that I didn't shoot you. You sucked the bullet out of the firing chamber and into your chest. Perfectly valid argument then no?

Or maybe I'll push you off a tall building. And rather than saying I pushed you off, you pulled me forward to knock into you, and the ground rushed up to meet you rather than you fell down and went splat.

Perceptions, especially flawed ones != facts.

Nope both of those a false, the difference between my example and your is the causation. See both of mine are perception claims, both of yours are causation claims. The difference is that while perception claims involves observations, causation claims involves blame.

Take your first example, you can claim that the world move when view base on the bullet, and created an impact onto my chest base following the law of thermal dynamics. You however cannot claim the "suck" action which is a causation claim.

Take second example, you can claim that the force between the 2 bodies have repelled each other and hence, view under the falling victim, that the ground is moving closer to him base on gravity and air fiction until the point of impact. The a push vs pull however is causation claim, which makes your statement false.

Everybody knows that the Earth is influenced by the Sun's gravitational field much more so than the other way around. Obviously I am not here trying to say that the earth "cause" the sun to revolve around it. All I made was a perception claim.

Maybe they shouldn't use the title "your brain lies to you" then going ahead and compare how if people can believe sun revolve around the earth, the they can believe Obama is a Muslim.

Yet it is comparable if only in terms of how we process information, that our brain does not necessarily distinguish truth of information when it stores it, added to that, over time it erodes the source.

If there's any source amnesia involve, it will be that you forgot about the article but remember something like "people are pretty stupid to think that Obama is like a Muslim, kinna like how some people think the sun revolve around the earth, but I forgot where I got that from".

What is your complaint now? You initially complained about the accuracy of the statements now you're complaining about the agenda of the article? They simply used a topical subject to illustrate a point.

Some call it propaganda, some call it social engineering through the media, other might say it is a harmless title to catch views attention to increase sell.

One might quibble about the meaning and/or intent required for 'lies' but, essentially, the headline is fair, the brain lies to you in terms of flipping to an entrenched fact, then adds it to accepting 'facts' according to preconceived beliefs and finally, losing the actual source of that information.

The article also discusses better ways of combatting falsities, by focusing on the fact rather than the lie.

What exactly is your complaint?

Take your first example, you can claim that the world move when view base on the bullet, and created an impact onto my chest base following the law of thermal dynamics. You however cannot claim the "suck" action which is a causation claim.But he can claim he just pulled back the gun from around the bullet and then you slammed into the bullet; with the bullet remaining in one place.
It's hardly his fault you slammed into a bullet.

I think everyone needs to get back on subject with Obama being/not being a muslim. I mean, i find all this earth and sun talk as fascinating as everyone else i am sure.. but enough already. :sniper:

One thing i have not seen discussed here is what makes obama being or not being a muslim important.

If obama WAS a muslim, it should affect his candidacy negatively for the fact that it is simply not a good idea to elect a muslim leader when we are currently in a war with or occupying a muslim country (whatever you want to call us being over there).

Also, the Kuran states that christianity is the enemy (the USA is widely known as a christian country regardless of the current statistics or our standpoint on religious beliefs) What would you think would happen if we gave someone with those beliefs the power to govern our country?

All in all i would say that electing a muslim as president of the USA is a bad idea (at least) at this point in time

Yet it is comparable if only in terms of how we process information, that our brain does not necessarily distinguish truth of information when it stores it, added to that, over time it erodes the source.



What is your complaint now? You initially complained about the accuracy of the statements now you're complaining about the agenda of the article? They simply used a topical subject to illustrate a point.



One might quibble about the meaning and/or intent required for 'lies' but, essentially, the headline is fair, the brain lies to you in terms of flipping to an entrenched fact, then adds it to accepting 'facts' according to preconceived beliefs and finally, losing the actual source of that information.

The article also discusses better ways of combatting falsities, by focusing on the fact rather than the lie.

What exactly is your complaint?

Well aside from the fact that people make more than 1 point sometime, I think my whole complain is the relation of Obama's religion as a absolute fact. In the first argument I point out how it is an unfair linking to begin with. Secondly i was saying that even if we are to let that go, there's still room for objective perceptual view in the sun vs earth relationship, which is hold very strongly in the modern society.

Third of course is just how the title further tries to reinforce that Obama is a Christian with a kind of hidden name calling.

Some of my other post might be to defend my sun vs earth relationship as a respond, and does not contribute to my original intention, which is

Is the recurring "Obama is a Christian" in the article an innocent comparison or a loaded agenda? Note that I am talking about the article's written method, not so much who Obama is (which I have already said I can't know for sure because I am not a mind reader).

*snip*

Actually, I think that's an entirely irrelevant subject to pursue.

But he can claim he just pulled back the gun from around the bullet and then you slammed into the bullet; with the bullet remaining in one place.
It's hardly his fault you slammed into a bullet.

Loaded question? Or just my paranoia?

Almost gonna say that he can't claim pull, but he surely can because of recoil. He's telling no lie when he said he pull back the gun, or more precisely the gun moves away from the bullet and then I slammed into the bullet. Since this is a perception claim it naturally cannot claim fault one way or another. It is neither my fault for slamming into the bullet nor his fault for moving away from the bullet. Not until someone finds a gun in his hand and know what it does of course. Because bullet moving away from him and into my chest does not change the cause of the movement, which is the guy pulling the trigger.

If obama WAS a muslim, it should affect his candidacy negatively for the fact that it is simply not a good idea to elect a muslim leader when we are currently in a war with or occupying a muslim country (whatever you want to call us being over there). I'd say it's quite the contrary. If the US had a muslim leader, then muslim countries can't claim that US affairs in the middle east are a Christian vs Muslim thing.
Provided of course a US muslim president would stick to the game plan (which would almost certainly be the case).

Also, the Kuran states that christianity is the enemyIt's think that's more in supplementary texts. Judaism and Christianity are "religions of the book", and to be treated with some measure of respect, in contrast to real unbelievers.

What would you think would happen if we gave someone with those beliefs the power to govern our country?I wouldn't expect a western muslim to govern the country much differently from a western christian. Nevermind that there are checks and balances in place.

I find it funny how anti-Obama people still cling to the "Obama iz teh moslimz!" argument a) as if it mattered if he was and b) like him being in christian church for 20 years didn't make him christian.

As for the earth-sun thing... Flawed perceptions don't make for facts :rolleyes:

Feel free to debate otherwise of course, doesn't change facts thought.

18% of Americans think the Sun revolves around the earth? Did they say what ages were polled? We can't be THAT bad at teaching!

Yes, yes we do not enough funding some teachers would believe this themselves to many students not paying attention inadequate controls on students the list goes on.

18% of Americans think the Sun revolves around the earth? Did they say what ages were polled? We can't be THAT bad at teaching!

I suspect it is, to a large degree, due to a sort of inattentive dyslexia.
You know...
"What's 3+4?"
"Seven"
"What's 9-2?"
"Seven"
"What's 91/13?"
"Seven"
"How many weeks in a day?"
"doh!"

Loaded question? Or just my paranoia?A bit of neither, maybe? Nothing was meant by it in any case; although it's a bit of a macabre example.
And I'd be more worried about loaded guns than loaded questions. j/k ;)

Because bullet moving away from him and into my chest does not change the cause of the movement, which is the guy pulling the trigger.Hmm, but did he pull the trigger, or did the trigger pull him?

(Well, ok, in fairness, acceleration should provide the solution, I think. While inertial frames are equivalent, acceleration is a different matter.)

I find it funny how anti-Obama people still cling to the "Obama iz teh moslimz!" argument a) as if it mattered if he was and b) like him being in christian church for 20 years didn't make him christian.

As for the earth-sun thing... Flawed perceptions don't make for facts :rolleyes:

Feel free to debate otherwise of course, doesn't change facts thought.

What's really funny are the people who wouldn't vote for him because he's a Muslim and because of his crazy Christian pastor.

Hmm, but did he pull the trigger, or did the trigger pull him?

Is the dog agging the tail or is the tail wagging the dog? ;)

Secondly, you can't really claim absoluteness in both science and what someone believes. Sun vs Earth can be see in as many way as you want. Space is space and has no defining points. Just because the earth have a smaller gravitational field and have less of an impact of space-time vs the sun doesn't mean we have to look at it in the sun's perspective. People simply decided to focus on the sun because it is creates the biggest warping of space-time in the solar system. "The sun revolve around the earth" by itself isn't even a false statement.

Actually it is recognized (by most) that the sun is not the centre of the universe. There is a different point which our solar system is not part of. Everything can be mathematically modelled back to that point. The location is the start of the "Big bang"

But as for obama I wouldnt trust him nor the people that are claiming he is a muslim. Instead I would be questioning why allegations that cant be proven are being mentioned. I conclude that its the low life of politics rather then anyones informed belife from the Republican party. The next question I would ask is why should you believe people that are more then likely deliberately lying.

Altho I will admit that the Democrats can be just as bad on lies.

Lets see... Obama was born as the son of a muslim father, has a middle name with the layout of the letters H-S-N which is a religious sign muslim parents give their sons, he went to a muslim school as a kid and recieved training on the Koran and muslim teachings.

It doesn't matter WHAT he may call himself now, by the teachings of the Koran and Mohammad he WAS a Muslim because he was BORN a muslim, and the Koran does not allow a muslim to convert.

Which means he is STILL a Muslim by Muslim law.

If Micheal Jackson tried saying "I'm a White man now" in the middle of a KKK meeting, do you think they'd believe him?

If Obama says "I'm not a muslim" in a muslim country, they won't believe him either.


Doesn't matter how often you call a dog a cat, it's still a dog, and Obama's still a muslim.

I hope you don't plan on reproducing.

Almost gonna say that he can't claim pull, but he surely can because of recoil. He's telling no lie when he said he pull back the gun, or more precisely the gun moves away from the bullet and then I slammed into the bullet. Since this is a perception claim it naturally cannot claim fault one way or another. It is neither my fault for slamming into the bullet nor his fault for moving away from the bullet. Not until someone finds a gun in his hand and know what it does of course. Because bullet moving away from him and into my chest does not change the cause of the movement, which is the guy pulling the trigger.

Untrue. The gun moved away from me, pressing the trigger against my immobile finger. At that point, I, the world, and the gun, accelerated away from you, except for the bullet, which you leaped forward into, and got your internal organs splattered all over the ground behind you.

There we go. No causation. Your death was the result of the natural world in motion with one sad exception.

Actually it is recognized (by most) that the sun is not the centre of the universe. There is a different point which our solar system is not part of. Everything can be mathematically modelled back to that point. The location is the start of the "Big bang"Actually, that "location" is every single point in our universe.
Hence why the universe is moving away from us in every direction at the same speed (at a given distance).
The universe is expanding, it didn't explode from some point to fill a preexisting void. There is no center; or in as much as there is one we are it, with 14 billion lightyears of universe allround (But if we move X lightyears in any direction, the same can be said there).

I'm completely unsurprised that this article comes from the New York Times.

Given the source, I'm also unsurprised at the speed at which a science article becomes an Obama commercial.

Hmmm... that probably explains the origins of clownfish. They ate LG's brains. :p



Although I'm tempted to say they got this one's brains instead.

They keep trying, but I manage to keep them distracted with the brains of trolls. :)

Actually, that "location" is every single point in our universe.
Hence why the universe is moving away from us in every direction at the same speed (at a given distance).
The universe is expanding, it didn't explode from some point to fill a preexisting void. There is no center; or in as much as there is one we are it, with 14 billion lightyears of universe allround (But if we move X lightyears in any direction, the same can be said there).

This is where my seventh grade chem teacher would tell us to imagine the universe like the surface of a balloon and instead it would be my mind that popped.

I think it's safe to assume that most of the people polled do not have a fair grasp of the principles of relativity and that at least the majority of the 18% either really believe the sun revolves around Earth in the conventional sense, or they thought they were funny. I'm hoping dearly for the latter.

Lets see... Obama was born as the son of a muslim father, has a middle name with the layout of the letters H-S-N which is a religious sign muslim parents give their sons, he went to a muslim school as a kid and recieved training on the Koran and muslim teachings.

It doesn't matter WHAT he may call himself now, by the teachings of the Koran and Mohammad he WAS a Muslim because he was BORN a muslim, and the Koran does not allow a muslim to convert.

Which means he is STILL a Muslim by Muslim law.

If Micheal Jackson tried saying "I'm a White man now" in the middle of a KKK meeting, do you think they'd believe him?

If Obama says "I'm not a muslim" in a muslim country, they won't believe him either.


Doesn't matter how often you call a dog a cat, it's still a dog, and Obama's still a muslim.
You can't tell the difference between skin color (a genetic trait determined by six independent genes) and religion?

Yeah, someone can bleach their skin. Genetically, they are still black.

and conveniently, the US is not a Muslim country, but a secular one.

Additionally, just because it is written somewhere and someone believes it does not make it true. I can tell everyone "I'm the queen of Mexico". Even if someone beleived it (and I don't even doubt that someone would), it still isn't fact.

Muslim law holds no authority in the US.

The other option for this survey is that some people took the option as a joke. Who designed it? were the questions leading? was it actually school assessment or just something done over the internet?

I do remember reading in the paper that the major religion in the UK is Jedi according to one survey. Somehow more people believe in the force then Jesus over there in that survey

But then again on the other hand we should never underestimate the power of stupidity. Whilst intelligence has a limit stupidity is not thus handicapped.

I do remember reading in the paper that the major religion in the UK is Jedi according to one survey. Somehow more people believe in the force then Jesus over there in that survey


A perfect example of the thread topic in action, because no survey has ever demonstrated that.

I can tell everyone "I'm the queen of Mexico". Even if someone beleived it (and I don't even doubt that someone would), it still isn't fact.

Mustachioed men in Tijuana bars say that you are, in fact, the queen of Mexico.

Cheap at the price as well apparently.

I do remember reading in the paper that the major religion in the UK is Jedi according to one survey. Somehow more people believe in the force then Jesus over there in that survey


Less a matter of belief than that people wrote in "jedi" because "stop being a bloody nosy bastard" wouldn't fit on the Census forms.


And while there was a survey, I believe Jedi's only make up 1.5% of british belief. Thats a lot of people to be pissed off at nosy government head counting :D so much for the Domesday book circa 2008

Often repeated falsehoods that irritate me:

The constant misuse of the word "theory," especially by creationists.

The big bad wolf idea.

The misconception that homosexuality is "not natural" when humans are one of many species of animals to have documented instances of homosexual relations.

I hate when people say "Catholic or Christian?" or some such stupid shit, as if Catholics are not christ worshippers.

When people assume that religious = Christian.

The mistaken belief held by some easterners that San Francisco and Los Angeles are close to each other.

Mustachioed men in Tijuana bars say that you are, in fact, the queen of Mexico.

Cheap at the price as well apparently.

Well, if someone believes it, and you saw it on the interwebz, it must be true!


*turns on red lights...*

By that token, everyone you've ever known who's passed away is and will always be a Mormon. We're all converted by the LDS Church after our deaths, and the LDS Church says it's binding.
You so ROCK. *bows*
Just reading that today, IMMEDIATELY before logging on.
Proxy baptisms to Mormonism you mightn't have caught ...:
ADOLF HITLER
ANNE FRANK
LEO TOLSTOY
BUDDHA *!*
ALBERT EINSTEIN
CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS (echo ....)
SIGMUND FREUD
GENGHIS KHAN *!*
JOSEF STALIN
JOAN D'ARC
ST. FRANCIS OF ASSISI
plenty more ... but ending this post with
ALL SIGNERS OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE