NationStates Jolt Archive

Idk if its been posted here before but i don't think so.

"By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.) (IEEPA), the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.) (NEA), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code,

I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, find that the current existence and risk of the proliferation of weapons-usable fissile material on the Korean Peninsula constitute an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States, and I hereby declare a national emergency to deal with that threat.

GEORGE W. BUSH

THE WHITE HOUSE,

June 26, 2008"

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/06/20080626-4.html

Umm what happens now? (Your thoughts)

Idk if its been posted here before but i don't think so.

"By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.) (IEEPA), the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.) (NEA), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code,

I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, find that the current existence and risk of the proliferation of weapons-usable fissile material on the Korean Peninsula constitute an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States, and I hereby declare a national emergency to deal with that threat.

GEORGE W. BUSH

THE WHITE HOUSE,

June 26, 2008"

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/06/20080626-4.html

Umm what happens now? (Your thoughts)

He's taken a battering in the polls, and so has McCain. This is a cheap ploy for him to get a boost. Either that or he'll use this "emergency situation" to postpone the election.

What happens now? Nothing, besides business as usual.




George W. Bush - still president. (But not for long!)

Idk if its been posted here before but i don't think so.

"By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.) (IEEPA), the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.) (NEA), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code,

I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, find that the current existence and risk of the proliferation of weapons-usable fissile material on the Korean Peninsula constitute an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States, and I hereby declare a national emergency to deal with that threat.

GEORGE W. BUSH

THE WHITE HOUSE,

June 26, 2008"

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/06/20080626-4.html

Umm what happens now? (Your thoughts)

Your misinterpreting what this means. In fact GW has lifted all sanctions from NK and this enumeration sort of reinstalls a few of the restrictions that were removed from the original blanket removal of sanctions

What happens now? Nothing, besides business as usual.




George W. Bush - still president. (But not for long!)

he just suspended elections . He is president for ever now.

he just suspended elections . He is president for ever now.

I'm in hell, aren't I?

What happens now?

Business as usual. What else?

What happens now?

Business as usual. What else?

for you Yes. now if you start protesting demanding an election your going to be stripped of your citizenship and sent to Gitmo.

I'm as disturbed by this as anyone. However, we should avoid alarmism. Is there any indication of plans to postpone an election or declare martial law?

However, if either of the above happened, my fondest wish would be to see Bush and his cronies arrested for treason.:upyours:

Idk if its been posted here before but i don't think so.

"By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (50 U.S.C. 1701 et seq.) (IEEPA), the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.) (NEA), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code,

I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, find that the current existence and risk of the proliferation of weapons-usable fissile material on the Korean Peninsula constitute an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States, and I hereby declare a national emergency to deal with that threat.

GEORGE W. BUSH

THE WHITE HOUSE,

June 26, 2008"

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/06/20080626-4.html

Umm what happens now? (Your thoughts)

do you have a clue as to what was done here?

WE dont do anything.

You people are out of your minds. What the hell are you on?

This is FOREIGN policy, not DOMESTIC.

How could anyone possibly use this to cancel an election?

They can't.

Umm did any of you read a word i just wrote?

will the response be the same as hurricane Katrina? :p

Umm did any of you read a word i just wrote?

yes but we all secretly want him to try and push it just for the story

I agree that this is probably nothing more than pre-election fear mongering. Its still dispicable.

You people are out of your minds. What the hell are you on?

This is FOREIGN policy, not DOMESTIC.

How could anyone possibly use this to cancel an election?

They can't.

the FOREIGN threat has been declared a DOMESTIC national emergency.
the executive order,written by Cheny, referred to automatically postpones elections in the name of maintaining order.

Umm did any of you read a word i just wrote?

i think not

but in their defense the declaration is very hard to read and understand so its more fun to goof on the idea that he has declared martial law.

the FOREIGN threat has been declared a DOMESTIC national emergency.
the executive order,written by Cheny, referred to automatically postpones elections in the name of maintaining order.

You are an idiot if you believe that the elections have been postponed. They are still on as usual. You can leave now.

Pre-election fear mongering. It wont do anything.

(psst, we've had a national emergency since 1/20/2001)

(psst, we've had a national emergency since 1/20/2001)

:rolleyes:

South Lorenya, I'm sorry but that was a truly stupid post.

One terror attack, however shocking, does not constitute an unending national crisis, as much as it is desired by those who seek to expand executive power in defiance of Constitutional limits. If that is your attitude, I suppose a postponement of elections would be perfectly fine with you, and my belief in the democratic process would make me unpatriotic? I've heard this kind of nonsense before, and I don't buy it.

Um Sky? Notice the date he put up there. It was when he was Inaugerated as president. But yea...it was a stupid post.

Sorry, I misread the date. I'll delete it now.

Pre-election fear mongering. It wont do anything.

Hopefully enough voters will remember the lies from 2004 and won;t be fooled again. But remember we are officially engaged in the "Global War on Terror", and Bush is still Commander-in-Chief until the next President is sworn in.

And there is no Kissinger around to tell the Pentagon to ignore nuclear war commands from Nixon.

Are you saying Nixon attempted to order a nuclear strike:eek:?

Sounds like a bit of historical fiction to me.

will the response be the same as hurricane Katrina? :p

Send a horse-expert to North Korea? :eek:

Send a horse-expert to North Korea? :eek:

Couldn't hurt. :)

will the response be the same as hurricane Katrina? :p

No this is war. It has to be delt with like Afghanistan. (when we invaded Iraq) So Since it's Korea, I think were suppose to invade Canada. :eek:

No this is war. It has to be delt with like Afghanistan. (when we invaded Iraq) So Since it's Korea, I think were suppose to invade Canada. :eek:

We've got quite a warm welcome waiting for you.

No, seriously. We made some coffee. Just be sure to remove your combat boots before you come in, no sense in staining the carpet.

The Canadian Airforce is now on high alert! :eek:

http://www.boomspeed.com/looonatic/canairforce.jpg

lol LG

Well..hopefully this doesn't lead to the much feared "post-ponement" of elections...but if it does I'm quite ready to fight to protect the constitution.

lol LG

Well..hopefully this doesn't lead to the much feared "post-ponement" of elections...but if it does I'm quite ready to fight to protect the constitution.

interestingly I have been recalled to active duty to quell domestic resistance to this order.

hope I don't have to shoot you.

National emergency? What, did the White House run outta pretzels or Bud Light Lime for the twins?

National emergency? What, did the White House run outta pretzels or Bud Light Lime for the twins?

that was so last month. and the military flew in resupplies very quickly. on the positive I got their numbers.

Let's be honest. If Bush tried postponing elections, he would be instantly denounced and reviled. Even McCain would be furious, since a permanent Bush Presidency would obviously be bad for his campaign;). There would be riots on a national scale, and someone would likely try to arrest Bush. It would then come down to whether he had the backing of the military. This is by no means a given. Note that the US military does not swear allegiance to the President, but to the constitution(or so I've heard). I don't know that the military would back him unless their was a real emergency.

Of course, a lot of the non-Bush lapdogs in the armed forces have had to resign for their dissent, so who really knows:(?

they swear allegiance to both.

Is this a joke?

Is this a joke?

no and your target for arrest in the next 48 hours.

he just suspended elections . He is president for ever now.

Yeah, like anyone actually believes that...:rolleyes:

lol LG

Well..hopefully this doesn't lead to the much feared "post-ponement" of elections...but if it does I'm quite ready to fight to protect the constitution.

The elections are not going to be postponed.

Let's be honest. If Bush tried postponing elections, he would be instantly denounced and reviled. Even McCain would be furious, since a permanent Bush Presidency would obviously be bad for his campaign;). There would be riots on a national scale, and someone would likely try to arrest Bush. It would then come down to whether he had the backing of the military. This is by no means a given. Note that the US military does not swear allegiance to the President, but to the constitution(or so I've heard). I don't know that the military would back him unless their was a real emergency.

Of course, a lot of the non-Bush lapdogs in the armed forces have had to resign for their dissent, so who really knows:(?

the act gives bush complete control of the papers and television stations. no one is protesting because they don't know. furthermore people like Mccain or Obama denounce this act. the tv will simply via "independent" investigation calling them traitors. then list their address and the nearest pitch fork supplier.

the act gives bush complete control of the papers and television stations. no one is protesting because they don't know. furthermore people like Mccain or Obama denounce this act. the tv will simply via "independent" investigation calling them traitors. then list their address and the nearest pitch fork supplier.

Which act are you referring to?

Start to worry when Big B declares Martial Law....


Though methinks he's trying to provoke North Korea into taking action so that he can have yet another war before he leaves office...though that remains to be seen.

Start to worry when Big B declares Martial Law....


Though methinks he's trying to provoke North Korea into taking action so that he can have yet another war before he leaves office...though that remains to be seen.

Wouldn't another war let him declare "national crisis" or some such which would allow him to extend his presidency?

Not american here, so only asking out of curiosity :p

Wouldn't another war let him declare "national crisis" or some such which would allow him to extend his presidency?

Not american here, so only asking out of curiosity :p

Probably.

I'm not American either, so I can't really say how the US government/presidency system actually works.

Wouldn't another war let him declare "national crisis" or some such which would allow him to extend his presidency?

Not american here, so only asking out of curiosity :p


No, the only way he could extend his presidency, would be to declare martial law.

Article 1 Section 9 of the US constitution states, "The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it." Habeas corpus is a concept of law, in which a person may not be held by the government without a valid reason for being held. A writ of habeas corpus can be issued by a court upon a government agency (such as a police force or the military). Such a writ compels the agency to produce the individual to the court, and to convince the court that the person is being reasonably held. The suspension of habeas corpus allows an agency to hold a person without a charge. Suspension of habeas corpus is often equated with martial law."

Due to the link between Habeas Corpus, and martial law is in believed that only Congress can declare martial law. However, our Consitution also states very clearly, that the President is Commander-in-Chief of the military, therefore it has been argued that the President can impose martial law himself. Now that said, Congress could handle such an even in 3 ways, they can choose not to act, unofficially accepting the President's declaration, they can approve it, and put their Congressional stamp of approval on it, or they can reject it, which would start a power struggle between Congress and the Executive branch that only the Judiciary can resolve. Also, since the President is Commander-in-Chief, the official decision would have to come from the military. If the military leaders and troops agree with the President then martial law would be in affect, if they don't then the President's power is eroded.

That said, there is a precident for martial law in the US. President Abraham Lincoln declared martial law in 1863 during the Civil War. Congress approved this act against "prisoners of war, spies, or aiders and abettors of the enemy," as well as on other classes of people, such as draft dodgers. Fortunately, the courts declared this act unconstitutional and the decision, and approval were struck down.

In arguement, Martial Law became defined as "the will of the commanding officer of an armed force, or of a geographical military department, expressed in time of war within the limits of his military jurisdiction, as necessity demands and prudence dictates, restrained or enlarged by the orders of his military chief, or supreme executive ruler." In other words, Martial Law is imposed by a local commander of a region she/he controls. Such a declaration makes the executing officer, supreme legislator, supreme judge, and supreme executive. In other words, the executing officer officially becomes a dictator and removes all other opposition to his power.

In the case, ex parte Milligan, the Supreme Court provided a resounding "NO" to Abraham Lincoln and the legislature stating, "Martial law ... destroys every guarantee of the Constitution." In other words, martial law nullifies everything the US stands for and what has made the country great in the first place.

Despite this criticism from the courts they did make exceptions that would make a declaration of martial law permissible. "The President can declare martial law when circumstances warrant it: When the civil authority cannot operate, then martial law is not only constitutional, but would be necessary: "If, in foreign invasion or civil war, the courts are actually closed, and it is impossible to administer criminal justice according to law, then, on the theatre of active military operations, where war really prevails, there is a necessity to furnish a substitute for the civil authority, thus overthrown, to preserve the safety of the army and society; and as no power is left but the military, it is allowed to govern by martial rule until the laws can have their free course. As necessity creates the rule, so it limits its duration; for, if this government is continued after the courts are reinstated, it is a gross usurpation of power. Martial rule can never exist where the courts are open, and in the proper and unobstructed exercise of their jurisdiction. It is also confined to the locality of actual war."

Basically, the only way that President Bush can delare martial law, and truly enforce it without causing problems for himself, and his party is if all the courts in the country are closed, and incapable of reopening within a reasonable time.

At this time, President Bush has no autrhority to declare martial law, at least not across the entire nation.


EDIT: This information were gathered from here (http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_mlaw.html).

Wouldn't another war let him declare "national crisis" or some such which would allow him to extend his presidency?

Not american here, so only asking out of curiosity :p

no.

there are no provisions for suspending elections.

and no chances of an internal emergency so severe that it would make elections impossible.

Pre-election fear mongering. It wont do anything.

Actually, it seems to be a mechanism by which Bush can reinstate some of the trade restrictions, something I don't necessarily oppose.

Which act are you referring to?

the secret ones that recalled me back to military service and had me begin to train daily for suppressing American born insurgents. and given me brain washing videos on how native combatants in the US are not covered by the Geneva convention.

The elections are not going to be postponed.
No, they'll just be rigged.

Funny, Bush has done an excellent job in getting North Korea to go along with getting rid of its nuclear program (something no previous administration accomplished), and you're all acting like he's being an idiot.

This order had to be done in order to keep certain restrictions in place, while getting rid of most of them in order to rewards North Korea for conforming to the goals of the six-party talks.

Accomplishing something by diplomacy - and you're all thinking this is stupid?

the secret ones that recalled me back to military service and had me begin to train daily for suppressing American born insurgents. and given me brain washing videos on how native combatants in the US are not covered by the Geneva convention.

Didn't answer my question. Which one are you referring to?

No, they'll just be rigged.

:rolleyes:

You do realize that in two hundred years, the US has NEVER postponed an election? There is NO precedent in US law for postponing an election for ANY reason. Yes, if we had a major natural disaster (say a hurricane or massive earthquake) just before election day, we MIGHT postpone the election by a week or two in order to get voting systems into place. But come hell or high water, we WILL vote in November.

That said, if Bush tries to take over by force, I will support the inevitable coup (which will probably happen pretty damn quickly, and come from the upper ranks of the military).

Actually, scratch that. If Bush tried to take power in November, the obvious coup leaders are McCain and Obama. They have the most to lose, and they could do pretty well. McCain would use his military connections to get army support, while Obama raises a citizen army over the Internet.

You do realize that in two hundred years, the US has NEVER postponed an election? There is NO precedent in US law for postponing an election for ANY reason. Yes, if we had a major natural disaster (say a hurricane or massive earthquake) just before election day, we MIGHT postpone the election by a week or two in order to get voting systems into place. But come hell or high water, we WILL vote in November.

Agreed. Even during the Civil War we had elections.

If it's a national emergency, can he go ahead and suspend habeus corpus despite SCOTUS's recent ruling?

If it's a national emergency, can he go ahead and suspend habeus corpus despite SCOTUS's recent ruling?


No, he does not have that option, as I stated in my previous post. Doing so would be the equivalent of declaring Martial Law, and the courts have ruled that there a limited situations in with he can do that. And this is not a situation in which that would be a choice.

All this does is allow President Bush to remove most of the restrictions on North Korea without removing them all. He is giving them a carrot, and holding a big stick to beat them with in case Kim Jong changes his mind.

If it's a national emergency, can he go ahead and suspend habeus corpus despite SCOTUS's recent ruling?

Actually, there are many executive orders made during the Cold War that would, if activated, suspend the Constitution (Congress and the Supreme Court) for six months. These have never been challenged or questioned in court. Ever.

The only reason this says "emergency" is so that the ban on trading with North Korea can be lifted so that we can reward them for being good about their nuclear weapons program, and still keep some sanctions in place as a guarantee against future behavior.

Otherwise, we would have to wait for the Democratic Congress to get off their collective asses.

Actually, there are many executive orders made during the Cold War that would, if activated, suspend the Constitution (Congress and the Supreme Court) for six months. These have never been challenged or questioned in court. Ever.

The bolded part is why. You can't challenge something unless you have standing to do it. An executive order authorizing the use of some yet unused power hasn't actually harmed anyone. It's never been challenged because nobody has grounds to challenge it.

The bolded part is why. You can't challenge something unless you have standing to do it. An executive order authorizing the use of some yet unused power hasn't actually harmed anyone. It's never been challenged because nobody has grounds to challenge it.
And when you do have grounds to challenge it, there won't be any courts to challenge it in.

The bolded part is why. You can't challenge something unless you have standing to do it. An executive order authorizing the use of some yet unused power hasn't actually harmed anyone. It's never been challenged because nobody has grounds to challenge it.

The executive orders surrounding the initiation of the Strategic Integrated Operational Plan for nuclear war, is "why".

If the US is seen to be under nuclear attack (during the Cold War), the President had a set of executive orders ready to go to declare martial law, suspend the entire Constitution, etc.

You probably wouldn't be able to challenge such a President, because you wouldn't be around to do so. The Congress and Supreme Court would have their asses fried onto a sidewalk somewhere.

You are an idiot if you believe that the elections have been postponed. They are still on as usual. You can leave now.

I agree with Corneliu on this..


-gasp-:eek:

the act gives bush complete control of the papers and television stations. no one is protesting because they don't know. furthermore people like Mccain or Obama denounce this act. the tv will simply via "independent" investigation calling them traitors. then list their address and the nearest pitch fork supplier.

I think you are confusing Bush and Chavez.

the act gives bush complete control of the papers and television stations. no one is protesting because they don't know. furthermore people like Mccain or Obama denounce this act. the tv will simply via "independent" investigation calling them traitors. then list their address and the nearest pitch fork supplier.

I went to the White House web site, and read the entire executive order. It says nothing of the kind.