NationStates Jolt Archive

With the Court's new ruling and the associated threads, I figured it was time for a poll. It's got multiple options for your convenience.

Personally, I'm for the death penalty for beyond-ALL-doubt convictions of murder, multiple/child rapes, and treason.

ugh and so this is what I'm going to be wasting my weekend arguing :p

capital punishment does not work and the whole idea of a sociaty just giving up on ever rehabilitating one of its own citizens shocks me

I see no reason whatsoever to use capital punishment. So no, I don't support it.

I'm against the death penalty because it costs more to put criminals to death than it is to house and feed them in jail for the rest of their lives.

ugh and so this is what I'm going to be wasting my weekend arguing :p

capital punishment does not work and the whole idea of a sociaty just giving up on ever rehabilitating one of its own citizens shocks me

Agreed.

Capital Punishment is about the emotional satisfaction of a bloodthirsty mob.

Capital punishment should be limited to the likes of Hitler, Osama, Saddam, Dong Zhuo, and so on.

I'm against the death penalty because it costs more to put criminals to death than it is to house and feed them in jail for the rest of their lives.

Thats because they get 20 years to appeal it. If we gave them 3 Appeals max and if they fail 2 out of three, we take them outside and kill them on the spot.

Thats because they get 20 years to appeal it. If we gave them 3 Appeals max and if they fail 2 out of three, we take them outside and kill them on the spot.

2 out of 3? :D

Against

Primarily due to the risk of an innocent being put to death but also I find it a little pointless as you can lock them up for life instead (that's for life and not 20 years!)

I still see no problem when a terrible killer is put down

2 out of 3? :D

Its fair.

With the Court's new ruling and the associated threads, I figured it was time for a poll.

What poll?

I'm against the death penalty in all cases. There's always the risk of killing innocents and I'm not convinced we have the kind of moral certainty to have the authority to kill people unnecessarily.

What poll?

I'm against the death penalty in all cases. There's always the risk of killing innocents and I'm not convinced we have the kind of moral certainty to have the authority to kill people unnecessarily.

Er...sorry 'bout that bit. My connection broke off while I was writing up the options.

*misses the poll*

Against capital punishment until you are able to perform raise dead/resurrect.

Capital punishment should be limited to the likes of Hitler, Osama, Saddam, Dong Zhuo, and so on.

Notice that Hitler committed suicide...

*misses the poll*

Against capital punishment until you are able to perform raise dead/resurrect.



Yeah but it still requires a 1,000 gp diamond...

Perhaps there could be some kind of register where people record their views on capital punishment. Then if they commit a murder they can face the death penalty if they said they agree with it. Otherwise not.

Capital punishment should be limited to the likes of Hitler, Osama, Saddam, Dong Zhuo, and so on.

Mmhh. Take the execution of Mussolini, or the beheading of Louis XVI. Though they were executed after a "formal" (just formal) trial, I don't think that those qualify as "capital punishment". They're political killings - leaving alone whether they were justified or not - and not "juridical" death sentences.

Anyway, my argument against death penalty:

definition: Killing a human that's been rendered unoffensive is murder.
postulate: The State must forbid murder.
postulate: The State must abid the rules it enforces on citizens.
experimental evidence: To sentence a human to death in a trial, the State must have him caught and rendered unoffensive.
Hence the State isn't allowed to sentence to death anyone, by its own laws.


added: yes, for those who don't know, Mussolini was tried in absentia by a special tribunal of the CLN (National Liberation Committee, having authority over German-occupied Italy, in the name of the king). Mussolini was sentenced to death for high treason. The laws of the Kingdom of Italy (some of them made by Mussolini himself as PM) allowed trial in absentia and death for high treason.

Capital punishment should be limited to the likes of Hitler, Osama, Saddam, Dong Zhuo, and so on.

I'll go with that. (Don't forget Mugabe).

I still see no problem when a terrible killer is put down

You mean through a trial and a sentence, or by shooting him dead as he is about to kill someone and there's no other viable method to stop him?

I'm for capital punishment, althought the evidence would have to be quite undeniable. No appeals thought, once you've been proved guilty within nigh-unexisting doubt, you're going down within a week.

Then again sometimes death is a release, not punishment. I would prefer more... Fitting punishments like castration for sex offenders.

Capital punishment these days is used for nothing more than a vote winner in my opinion.

I'm for capital punishment, althought the evidence would have to be quite undeniable. No appeals thought, once you've been proved guilty within nigh-unexisting doubt, you're going down within a week.

Then again sometimes death is a release, not punishment. I would prefer more... Fitting punishments like castration for sex offenders.

That carries the same problem as capital punishment. What if the person turns out to have been innocent?

Besides, where do you draw the line? There's already chemical castration of the most severe child rapists in several states, but surely nobody would favor such extreme measures for someone who, say, simply exposes him/herself in front of minors.

One thing I never thought but which I've learned over the years on sites like this is that a lot of anti-death penalty advocates, who claim a moral high ground on account of death penalty being "murder," have a unique gusto for inflicting pain and suffering on prisoners.

It usually comes up when there's a particularly horrific crime, like murdering and raping a child (in that order). You'll get comments like "He should be put into the general population with a sign on his neck that says 'baby killer and fucker.' Then the other inmates will give him a taste of his own medicine! LOL IM SUPERIOR MORALLY, FOR MY IDEA OF JUSTICE IS SUB-CONTRACTING SEXUAL ASSAULT."

Honestly that just doesn't jive with me. You think killing is wrong, but torture and rape is just fine.

And what if the guy turns out to be innocent? If he was executed, he's dead. But you know, if he was raped and killed in prison, he's also dead. Oops.

You know what they'll say? "He got what he deserved." What hypocrites...

I agree completely. I think a person who somehow thinks a prison rape is a good thing is really no better than the rapist himself on some level.

At the end of the day it's all about torches and pitchforks. Reason seems to have exited some time ago.

One thing I never thought but which I've learned over the years on sites like this is that a lot of anti-death penalty advocates, who claim a moral high ground on account of death penalty being "murder," have a unique gusto for inflicting pain and suffering on prisoners.

It usually comes up when there's a particularly horrific crime, like murdering and raping a child (in that order). You'll get comments like "He should be put into the general population with a sign on his neck that says 'baby killer and fucker.' Then the other inmates will give him a taste of his own medicine! LOL IM SUPERIOR MORALLY, FOR MY IDEA OF JUSTICE IS SUB-CONTRACTING SEXUAL ASSAULT."

Honestly that just doesn't jive with me. You think killing is wrong, but torture and rape is just fine.

And what if the guy turns out to be innocent? If he was executed, he's dead. But you know, if he was raped and killed in prison, he's also dead. Oops.

Erm... Where's the poll?

One thing I never thought but which I've learned over the years on sites like this is that a lot of anti-death penalty advocates, who claim a moral high ground on account of death penalty being "murder," have a unique gusto for inflicting pain and suffering on prisoners.

It usually comes up when there's a particularly horrific crime, like murdering and raping a child (in that order). You'll get comments like "He should be put into the general population with a sign on his neck that says 'baby killer and fucker.' Then the other inmates will give him a taste of his own medicine! LOL IM SUPERIOR MORALLY, FOR MY IDEA OF JUSTICE IS SUB-CONTRACTING SEXUAL ASSAULT."

Honestly that just doesn't jive with me. You think killing is wrong, but torture and rape is just fine.

And what if the guy turns out to be innocent? If he was executed, he's dead. But you know, if he was raped and killed in prison, he's also dead. Oops.

You know what they'll say? "He got what he deserved." What hypocrites...

I agree completely. I think a person who somehow thinks a prison rape is a good thing is really no better than the rapist himself on some level.

At the end of the day it's all about torches and pitchforks. Reason seems to have exited some time ago.

*shrugs*. Some people just like the idea of punishment. A quick and easy death cannot be considered much of a punishment by rational people.
Still, rape is just as useless as death.

Er...sorry 'bout that bit. My connection broke off while I was writing up the options.

You can add a poll after making a thread. Click on thread tools above the OP.

An illegal alien just got sentenced to death today here in Alabama for killing a cop. The brother of the cop said the punishment is too good for him. (lethal injection)

I agree. Being locked in a cell to never see the sun again seems like a harsher sentence that just yawning and going to sleep.

Rest in peace Office Daniel Golden. At least some form of justice was served today!

In favour in cases of:

* Pre-meditated murder / Serial murders
* Aggravated and/or extremely cruel crimes of serial violence (including sexual)
* Treason
* Certain crimes of exploitation (i.e. trafficking people for the slave trade)

The reason for the latter is that despite the fact that usually involve serial crimes of violence is that the high profit in them necessitates a strong deterrent in order to be effective, as well as simply saying "Society will not tolerate this. At all. Ever".

An illegal alien just got sentenced to death today here in Alabama for killing a cop. The brother of the cop said the punishment is too good for him. (lethal injection)

I agree. Being locked in a cell to never see the sun again seems like a harsher sentence that just yawning and going to sleep.

Rest in peace Office Daniel Golden. At least some form of justice was served today!

On this note, I agree the lethal injection is a bad method of execution, though on different grounds. It's hypocritical to have a "human execution". You are executing someone, and if you have to convince yourself it's humane, you should do it. In my view, if you aren't prepared to look the person in the eye and pull the trigger then don't do it. You have to be certain what you are doing is justified and justifiable.

Mmhh. Take the execution of Mussolini, or the beheading of Louis XVI. Though they were executed after a "formal" (just formal) trial, I don't think that those qualify as "capital punishment". They're political killings - leaving alone whether they were justified or not - and not "juridical" death sentences.

Anyway, my argument against death penalty:

definition: Killing a human that's been rendered unoffensive is murder.
postulate: The State must forbid murder.
postulate: The State must abid the rules it enforces on citizens.
experimental evidence: To sentence a human to death in a trial, the State must have him caught and rendered unoffensive.
Hence the State isn't allowed to sentence to death anyone, by its own laws.


I'd argue the definition is wrong, animals for example cannot commit murder, therefore murder is one legal person killing another human etc.

So the question becomes in what situations are states considered legal persons with certain laws applying to them, and somewhere where my knowledge is close to nil. In the UK murder cannot be committed by a legal entity such as a corporation etc, it automatically becomes manslaughter.

*shrugs*. Some people just like the idea of punishment.

Some people just like the idea of committing heinous acts of criminal violence.

A quick and easy death cannot be considered much of a punishment by rational people.

Uh, right. Death isn't much of a punishment at all. According to "rational people." Then I guess "rational people" will have no objections to the death penalty or, for that matter, to dying. Shit, death even sounds kinda FUN!

An illegal alien just got sentenced to death today here in Alabama for killing a cop. The brother of the cop said the punishment is too good for him. (lethal injection)

I agree. Being locked in a cell to never see the sun again seems like a harsher sentence that just yawning and going to sleep.

Rest in peace Office Daniel Golden. At least some form of justice was served today!

This is exactly what I mean too. Thanks for sharing that your unreasoning hatred towards illegal immigrants means that you have a sadistic desire to inflict pain and suffering upon them and that you believe that is 'justice.'

This is exactly what I mean too. Thanks for sharing that your unreasoning hatred towards illegal immigrants means that you have a sadistic desire to inflict pain and suffering upon them and that you believe that is 'justice.'

What fucking planet did you get "I hate illegal immigrants" from? Did I say people of other races should be treated different? Sheeeesh!

So then what is it, cop-killing you hate?

It can't be just plain killing itself, since you view killing as "too good" a punishment. It obviously can't be that bad a crime either.

And if the illegal immigration issue has nothing to do with it, why mention how he's an "illegal alien?" That's as relevant as saying he's a Catholic.

With the Court's new ruling and the associated threads, I figured it was time for a poll. It's got multiple options for your convenience.

Personally, I'm for the death penalty for beyond-ALL-doubt convictions of murder, multiple/child rapes, and treason.

I am wholly against the death penalty.We can rehabilitate criminals. Please note that such rehabilitation would work in such a way that they would not wish to reoffend.

An illegal alien just got sentenced to death today here in Alabama for killing a cop. The brother of the cop said the punishment is too good for him. (lethal injection)

I agree. Being locked in a cell to never see the sun again seems like a harsher sentence that just yawning and going to sleep.

Rest in peace Office Daniel Golden. At least some form of justice was served today!

From a statistical point of view, blacks and Hispanics who have been found guilty of murder are more likely to be sentenced to death than white people who have been found guilty of the same offense.

While I support capital punishment in theory, I fully realise that in practice, in the USA it is unfairly applied along racial and economic lines and thus deprives people of the fundamental right of equal justice for all. There is also the simple fact that many innocent people have been executed. Whoops doesn't cover it. Consequently, I would rather keep a few evil and inhuman psychopaths alive than support state sanctioned, often racially biased, sometimes erroneous killings.

From a statistical point of view, blacks and Hispanics who have been found guilty of murder are more likely to be sentenced to death than white people who have been found guilty of the same offense.

While I support capital punishment in theory, I fully realise that in practice, in the USA it is unfairly applied along racial and economic lines and thus deprives people of the fundamental right of equal justice for all.

The same is true for any punishment, and conviction and arrests for that matter. The minorities get unfair treatment and the presumption of guilt. This isn't a problem with capital punishment specifically, it's a problem with endemic racism.

There is also the simple fact that many innocent people have been executed. Whoops doesn't cover it.

Many innocent people have been put into prison where they're raped, assaulted and yes, even killed. Or kill themselves. Or otherwise have their lives entirely ruined. There's no "whoops, sorry" that covers them either. But the problem is a justice system which puts innocent people in a position to be punished; not the actual punishment itself which, if applied to guilty persons, is not inherently unjust.

I am wholly against the death penalty.We can rehabilitate criminals. Please note that such rehabilitation would work in such a way that they would not wish to reoffend.

We could lobotomize 'em, sure, but that doesn't seem pleasant.

So then what is it, cop-killing you hate?
The rising crime rate is what I hate.

And if the illegal immigration issue has nothing to do with it, why mention how he's an "illegal alien?" That's as relevant as saying he's a Catholic.
The term "illegal immigrant" is going to be used if the defendent in a trial happens to be one. A DA is not going to have a very succesful career if he refers to a defendent as a Catholic. Your point is invalid.