NationStates Jolt Archive

I've gotten to a point in my life where it feels like no one I know cares about me or my problems. My biggest problem at the moment is crippling loneliness, caused by being unable to get over my ex-girlfriend despite the obvious fact that she doesn't love me anymore (if she ever really did at all), my friends seem apathetic to this and will not talk to me (not sure if those two are related or not) and said "friends" seem to always have something more important to do than to spend time with me and try to make me feel better. I do get occasional "advice" from them, most of which consists of phrases such as "be more optimistic", "stop feeling sorry for yourself", "just move on", etc, etc. That sort of advice is futile, as I honestly don't think I can move on from my ex unless I know, for certain, that another girl is around that will love me and care for me and make me feel like I actually matter. The lack of beneficial advice and contact I recieve from my "friends" exacerbates this loneliness, to the point to where I feel that no one who knows me wants to help me or cares about me. Therefore, I seek comfort from total strangers on NSG, in the hopes that people who may understand my situation better and have more empathy towards me may be able to provide me with some comfort.

Award for "Best 'Get a blog' post" ever??

Award for "Best 'Get a blog' post" ever??

Thanks. -_-

One question how old are you? (This directly pertains to my advice.)

Just to let you know about the environment here, NSG, and the internet in general, is not the place to go for comfort about anything. In an environment where people can say pretty much what they damn well please and be (almost) completely anonymous to everyone, they will be as harsh and unforgiving as they can.

Though I would also like to say that with the thing with your friends not seeming to understand, it could also be that they just don't know what to say in that situation. They may truly care about what you're going through, but just don't know what they can do for you. Indeed, I would imagine that there really isn't much they can do, either.

And really, they're truthfully being pretty honest. Life will go on after this loss, and you will probably be in this situation multiple times before you find "the one". All you can do if you want to find someone else to help you get over your ex is to cheer up. I know from experience that girls really will not want to go out with a guy who's depressed all the time.

(I also know from observation that girls would rather go out with complete morons and jerks than guys who will actually treat them right, but that's another story.)

Since Delator had already said the expected, perhaps I can chip in my real thoughts: You matter, okay? But, unfortunately for you, I am not a girl.

And since this can get carried on to span, I think it is advisable to threadjack this into something that has a reason to stay in NSG:
What do you do when you feel lonely?

(I also know from observation that girls would rather go out with complete morons and jerks than guys who will actually treat them right, but that's another story.)It's true. (http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/love/mg19826614.100-bad-men-get-the-most-girls.html)

Therefore, I seek comfort from total strangers on NSG, in the hopes that people who may understand my situation better and have more empathy towards me may be able to provide me with some comfort.

You've wandered into the wrong place.

It's true. (http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/love/mg19826614.100-bad-men-get-the-most-girls.html)

So there is a study, now... I KNEW IT!!! :( :mad: :headbang:

Thanks. -_-

What can I say?

You've wandered into the wrong place.

So there is a study, now... I KNEW IT!!! :( :mad: :headbang:
Might want to reread that first sentence =P
NICE guys knew it, now two studies have confirmed it: bad boys get the most girls.

(I also know from observation that girls would rather go out with complete morons and jerks than guys who will actually treat them right, but that's another story.)

I would say that it's more likely that most women just don't like whiny self hatting needy complainers who want a hero biscuit because they held a door open, listen to a story, or bought an unsolicited teddy bear. Instead they'd rather go out with the upbeat cat who can provide a good time.


To the OP: Your friends are still your friends, but they're not saints. It can be a serious drag to listen to someone mope and be inconsolable. There are people who are paid professionals to listen to that kind of thing and they get a lot of coin for the deed. Partially, because it's a huge drag.

Your girlfriend broke up with you. It sucks. It hurts. We've all been there or will be there, etc. There is no guarantee that you'll ever find anyone again, but frankly the odds are fairly good. Really, the only way you can fuck them up is to bundle yourself up in a self-fulfilling ball of pity.

Start talking to your friends about something that isn't about the crippling hole your ex left in your heart. That will start to help your friend situation. Once you remember that you existed before you met her and start functioning again, you open yourself up for lightening to strike again.

It's natural to feel hurt, but if you wallow in self pity no one is going to hero you out of it. You got to do that yourself, dude.

I would say that it's more likely that most women just don't like whiny self hatting needy complainers who want a hero biscuit because they held a door open, listen to a story, or bought an unsolicited teddy bear. Instead they'd rather go out with the upbeat cat who can provide a good time.


Nonsense. Most people are morons or jerks, therefore so are most men, therefore so are most men that women date.

And women are indeed attracted more to asshole-behavior. That's why asshole-behavior is prevalent; evolutionary selection. At least that's the only explanation I can think that makes sense. Perhaps they are not attracted to the asshole-behavior itself, but something else that just happens to go along with the asshole-behavior. Like being "upbeat." Yeah, I can think of a great many upbeat assholes.

Nonsense. Most people are morons or jerks, therefore so are most men, therefore so are most men that women date.

And women are indeed attracted more to asshole-behavior. That's why asshole-behavior is prevalent; evolutionary selection. At least that's the only explanation I can think that makes sense. Perhaps they are not attracted to the asshole-behavior itself, but something else that just happens to go along with the asshole-behavior. Like being "upbeat." Yeah, I can think of a great many upbeat assholes.
I would submit also that the definition of 'asshole' is often, "That dude she's dating that isn't me."

I would submit also that the definition of 'asshole' is often, "That dude she's dating that isn't me."

I suppose that could be someone's definition, but it's clearly a lot more limited.

When speaking of assholes, I prefer to have as wide open a definition as possible, so more can be crammed into it!

I would submit also that the definition of 'asshole' is often, "That dude she's dating that isn't me."
Nonsense. I know from personal experience that sufficient doses of narcissism, inconsideration, and manipulation are very helpful in convincing a girl that's undecided or in a relationship to go to bed with you. That nice guys finish last is fact.

However, this shouldn't be read that nice guys never finish =P

I've gotten to a point in my life where it feels like no one I know cares about me or my problems. My biggest problem at the moment is crippling loneliness, caused by being unable to get over my ex-girlfriend despite the obvious fact that she doesn't love me anymore (if she ever really did at all), my friends seem apathetic to this and will not talk to me (not sure if those two are related or not) and said "friends" seem to always have something more important to do than to spend time with me and try to make me feel better. I do get occasional "advice" from them, most of which consists of phrases such as "be more optimistic", "stop feeling sorry for yourself", "just move on", etc, etc. That sort of advice is futile, as I honestly don't think I can move on from my ex unless I know, for certain, that another girl is around that will love me and care for me and make me feel like I actually matter. The lack of beneficial advice and contact I recieve from my "friends" exacerbates this loneliness, to the point to where I feel that no one who knows me wants to help me or cares about me. Therefore, I seek comfort from total strangers on NSG, in the hopes that people who may understand my situation better and have more empathy towards me may be able to provide me with some comfort.

This post sums you up perfectly.
If you had no better idea than to come to an online game for help with your life then somethigs wrong.
Take their advice,man up and do something about it.
"Pain is inevitible,suffering is optional"

Nonsense. Most people are morons or jerks, therefore so are most men, therefore so are most men that women date.

And women are indeed attracted more to asshole-behavior. That's why asshole-behavior is prevalent; evolutionary selection. At least that's the only explanation I can think that makes sense. Perhaps they are not attracted to the asshole-behavior itself, but something else that just happens to go along with the asshole-behavior. Like being "upbeat." Yeah, I can think of a great many upbeat assholes.Nonesense yourself. This doesn't just apply to women, but anyone. People tend not to like to make decisions all the time. Sometimes like to be able to relax and let someone else take the reins. This is where 'nice guys' fall down - they fawn over their centre of affections, thinking they are being nice by letting her make all the decisions. Likewise they mold themselves into what they think the girl. No one likes this. No one.

Well some people do, but they're not worth being around.

Quite simply it's all about confident and independent vs insecure and dependent rather than the nice/bad dichotomy that 'nice guys' whine about.

Nonsense. I know from personal experience that sufficient doses of narcissism, inconsideration, and manipulation are very helpful in convincing a girl that's undecided or in a relationship to go to bed with you. That nice guys finish last is fact.


Is this a comment about the abilities of nice guys in the boudoir I do wonder? :p

Is this a comment about the abilities of nice guys in the boudoir I do wonder? :pAdds a whole different meaning to "Unable to cope", doesn't it =P

I honestly don't think I can move on from my ex unless I know, for certain, that another girl is around that will love me and care for me and make me feel like I actually matter.

Okay buddy, In my drunken state, this is what I have to offer:

These things will happen. There is nothing to do but keep on going. Wallowing in misery will achieve nothing.

It will happen mate, If you are a good person you will find a nice girl to settle down with. It does not have to happen this week though. Give yourself a few weeks to survive the breakup, and then go looking. Try new things. Use the opportunity to broaden your horizons.

That sort of advice is futile, as I honestly don't think I can move on from my ex unless I know, for certain, that another girl is around that will love me and care for me and make me feel like I actually matter. The lack of beneficial advice and contact I recieve from my "friends" exacerbates this loneliness, to the point to where I feel that no one who knows me wants to help me or cares about me.

Seriously, if you can't love yourself (hehe) or think that you feel that you actually matter, why should anyone else? You are your own person, you have control over your life and no girl in their right mind would be attracted to someone so reliant upon them.

You need to be ALONE, SANS GIRLFRIEND for at least 1 year, get to know yourself and learn to make yourself happy, your friends will be sick of the sight of you and listening to the melodramatic crap. Everyone has their problems, have you been there for your friends or are you so involved with your own misery. I've had to suffer a friend exactly like you and she got a good telling off, otherwise I would have been quite happy to never see her again.

You're your own worse enemy.!

I would submit also that the definition of 'asshole' is often, "That dude she's dating that isn't me."

I know that tune allright....

I've gotten to a point in my life where it feels like no one I know cares about me or my problems. My biggest problem at the moment is crippling loneliness, caused by being unable to get over my ex-girlfriend despite the obvious fact that she doesn't love me anymore (if she ever really did at all), my friends seem apathetic to this and will not talk to me (not sure if those two are related or not) and said "friends" seem to always have something more important to do than to spend time with me and try to make me feel better. I do get occasional "advice" from them, most of which consists of phrases such as "be more optimistic", "stop feeling sorry for yourself", "just move on", etc, etc. That sort of advice is futile, as I honestly don't think I can move on from my ex unless I know, for certain, that another girl is around that will love me and care for me and make me feel like I actually matter. The lack of beneficial advice and contact I recieve from my "friends" exacerbates this loneliness, to the point to where I feel that no one who knows me wants to help me or cares about me. Therefore, I seek comfort from total strangers on NSG, in the hopes that people who may understand my situation better and have more empathy towards me may be able to provide me with some comfort.

My two cents: Get help. Is there any kind of therapist or anything you can talk to, at all? If you've had this for more than a couple of weeks it could be depression. Also, seriously, get new friends. Your current friends obviously don't know how to deal with depressed people.

I've gotten (........) some comfort.

Strange to relate, its often easiest to recover from having been spurned by a member of the fairer sex ('evil bitches') in the intimate company of a member of the fairer sex ('lovely wimmin').

It's true. (http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/love/mg19826614.100-bad-men-get-the-most-girls.html)

I speak for 95% of the male population when I say:

I KNEW IT!

My biggest problem at the moment is crippling loneliness, caused by being unable to get over my ex-girlfriend despite the obvious fact that she doesn't love me anymore ...
Is that all? While the rest of the world struggles with not having enough food to feed everyone, inevitable homelessness as a result of a lack of available housing, no means to transport themselves anywhere, massive layoffs and poor employment prospects as a result of a global recession and the increasing devaluation of academic qualifications, a gradual progression to a dictatorial world state, wars, natural disasters and the dissolution of anything resembling objective fact, your biggest problem is getting over your girlfriend?

Damn, you're a lucky man.

As I see it, you have four options:

A) Kill her
B) Kill her boyfriend
C) Kill both of them
D) Get over it

I'd suggest C for you, but that's just because I'm a wretched, horrible person, and am hoping to see a new thread called "Unable to cope II, Electric Chair Boogaloo" about how you're depressed now that the police are coming after you.

As I see it, you have four options:

A) Kill her
B) Kill her boyfriend
C) Kill both of them
D) Get over it

I'd suggest C for you, but that's just because I'm a wretched, horrible person, and am hoping to see a new thread called "Unable to cope II, Electric Chair Boogaloo" about how you're depressed now that the police are coming after you.

Yay for good advice! :D

-snip-
I'd narrow it down to three.

The first is simple: Kill her.
Then try the second: Kill himself.
And the third, to make sure nobody ever knows about his troubles: Kill everybody in the whole world! Ahahahaha!

I would say that it's more likely that most women just don't like whiny self hatting needy complainers who want a hero biscuit because they held a door open, listen to a story, or bought an unsolicited teddy bear. Instead they'd rather go out with the upbeat cat who can provide a good time.

they will also settle for much of the above, provided you have the cash to pay someone else to put your hats on for you.

I've gotten to a point in my life where it feels like no one I know cares about me or my problems.
Take up substance abuse, obviously.

i can't promise there is a girl around the corner who will make you feel wanted and like you have a purpose, or will stop you from feeling ignored, or anything. but i can agree that any advice along the lines of 'pick yourself up' or 'get over it' doesn't help one bit.

advice that might* help, that i can think of, is to perhaps do something that will help you feel needed/wanted/helpful/useful/that you matter. something like volunteer work, or just helping someone you know out with something. it may not abate the loneliness, but if you accomplish something just for the sake of helping someone, it might be good for you :)


* maybe, possibly, maybe, maybe, maybe

You sound like my ex. I left him almost 2 years ago, and he still can't get over me. Wtf? My advice is to find something to do. Make yourself busy. Find things that you like to do that make you feel like you accomplished something. If you like art, draw something. If you like music, learn to play an instrument. Get out and play some sports. The feelings you have for her will stay there for a while, and you can't really control them, but you can control your own behavior. If you see her often, start avoiding her if at all possible. Go out with your friends and talk about cars, sports, weather, TV shows, 4chan... whatever you guys are into. Do some crazy things together. Have a party, get drunk if you must. Be as active as you can.

That will do a few things for you:
1. if you accomplish something on your own (an art project, a good game of tennis, a clean room/house) it will make you feel like you have the power to change things in your life. You don't need a girl to love you to death in order for you to matter in this world.
2. if you make yourself busy, you will have to concentrate on what you are doing so you will think about her less, and with time hopefully not at all.
3. if whatever you are doing includes physical activity, you will also be pretty tired at the end of the day, so you will get a good night's sleep which is also very important for emotional recovery.
4. if you try doing something new that you've never done before, you will enter a new world of people interested in that subject/activity so you will get a chance to meet new friends and hopefully a new girl.

Getting over someone is like getting over an addiction, and the best way is to change your environment, and remove things that would remind you of your past life with her.

Good luck. It's not the end of the world and, honestly, would you really like to be with a girl that doesn't want to be with you?

I would say that it's more likely that most women just don't like whiny self hatting needy complainers who want a hero biscuit because they held a door open, listen to a story, or bought an unsolicited teddy bear. Instead they'd rather go out with the upbeat cat who can provide a good time.


To the OP: Your friends are still your friends, but they're not saints. It can be a serious drag to listen to someone mope and be inconsolable. There are people who are paid professionals to listen to that kind of thing and they get a lot of coin for the deed. Partially, because it's a huge drag.

Your girlfriend broke up with you. It sucks. It hurts. We've all been there or will be there, etc. There is no guarantee that you'll ever find anyone again, but frankly the odds are fairly good. Really, the only way you can fuck them up is to bundle yourself up in a self-fulfilling ball of pity.

Start talking to your friends about something that isn't about the crippling hole your ex left in your heart. That will start to help your friend situation. Once you remember that you existed before you met her and start functioning again, you open yourself up for lightening to strike again.

It's natural to feel hurt, but if you wallow in self pity no one is going to hero you out of it. You got to do that yourself, dude.

+1.

Keep in mind that women don't want some guy who is feeling sorry for himself.

It's true. (http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/love/mg19826614.100-bad-men-get-the-most-girls.html)

"The study found that those who scored higher on the dark triad personality traits tended to have more partners and more desire for short-term relationships"

What exactly does that prove?

"The study found that those who scored higher on the dark triad personality traits tended to have more partners and more desire for short-term relationships"

What exactly does that prove?

It means they get laid a lot, without having to invest in a long-term relationship.

Laerod, Do you consider yourself a nice guy?

My advice is to find something to do. Make yourself busy. Find things that you like to do that make you feel like you accomplished something.

Beat me to it. Just do something to get your mind off all this. It sounds like you are in a "nothing thrills me" rut. Find something that does thrill you. Or at least makes you somewhat happy.

As for me, I'm married, I have animals, I'm trying to lose weight, and I have a budding addiction to my Wii. Any of those things is a good start.

Try skydiving. It's the best experience of your entire life, no matter what you do.

If that doesn't thrill you, see a doctor.

I've gotten to a point in my life where it feels like no one I know cares about me or my problems. My biggest problem at the moment is crippling loneliness, caused by being unable to get over my ex-girlfriend despite the obvious fact that she doesn't love me anymore (if she ever really did at all), my friends seem apathetic to this and will not talk to me (not sure if those two are related or not) and said "friends" seem to always have something more important to do than to spend time with me and try to make me feel better. I do get occasional "advice" from them, most of which consists of phrases such as "be more optimistic", "stop feeling sorry for yourself", "just move on", etc, etc. That sort of advice is futile, as I honestly don't think I can move on from my ex unless I know, for certain, that another girl is around that will love me and care for me and make me feel like I actually matter. The lack of beneficial advice and contact I recieve from my "friends" exacerbates this loneliness, to the point to where I feel that no one who knows me wants to help me or cares about me. Therefore, I seek comfort from total strangers on NSG, in the hopes that people who may understand my situation better and have more empathy towards me may be able to provide me with some comfort.


You cannot base your "getting over" your ex on finding someone new, because that would not be getting over. You sound like you might have a mild to moderate depression, maybe you should go see a doctor. Or, if you feel like all you need to do is vent your frustration and grief, speak to a shrink, or maybe a member of your religious congregation, if indeed you are religious.
Feel better :)

If you feel you "need" to have someone love you in order to be "complete" or "normal", you have a problem.

You need to be able to love yourself first.

If you can't do that alone, then there are two possible outcomes - either you never find anyone who can stand your neediness, or someone will come along and use you like a crack pipe.

Try skydiving. It's the best experience of your entire life, no matter what you do.

If that doesn't thrill you, see a doctor.

The substance abuse suggestion would be a hell of a lot cheaper

The substance abuse suggestion would be a hell of a lot cheaper

But mine would be more fun.

Honestly, I never understood the compulsion to watch a chair turn into 1,000 snakes...

+1.

Keep in mind that women don't want some guy who is feeling sorry for himself.
Nothing says that I've been too harsh and too much of a dick like having DK agree with me.

There is shit you enjoyed before her. Get back into that. You've spent a lot of time leaning on someone, you need to get your sealegs back, that's all.
But mine would be more fun.

Honestly, I never understood the compulsion to watch a chair turn into 1,000 snakes...

That doesn't really happen. It'd be cool, though.

That doesn't really happen. It'd be cool, though.

It does on LSD.

You need to be able to love yourself first.
I have to reject this sentiment. The only way in which I can interpret it is as crass narcissism. Sorry, but no matter what sense of worth or confidence I can place to "me", this can't extend to love, in either sense of the word, without necessarily shutting out other people.

I would submit also that the definition of 'asshole' is often, "That dude she's dating that isn't me."

Oh, of course that's the definition. It couldn't possibly be "that guy's she's with doesn't care about her, and treats her like shit", because as we all know, that never happens. Oh, never!:rolleyes:

If you feel you "need" to have someone love you in order to be "complete" or "normal", you have a problem.

You need to be able to love yourself first.

If you can't do that alone, then there are two possible outcomes - either you never find anyone who can stand your neediness, or someone will come along and use you like a crack pipe.

Still have that compassion-deficit disorder, eh, DK?

It does on LSD.

Maybe for some people. I think most people go into it expecting to see dancing toadstools walking down the street, and they think there's something wrong with their experience when it doesn't happen. LSD is more over-hyped than absinthe.

To the OP: You need to take your friend's advice. You need to do something, anything to pull yourself out of this depression. Get a new job, take some classes, find a hobby, paint a picture, volunteer at a homeless shelter, exercise. Do something. Exercise and being of service to others are two fantastic ways to get yourself out of your own head. Which is what you need to do. Yes, you don't feel like doing that; in fact, it probably sounds like the worst advice ever.

It's also probably accurate that your friends are avoiding you. You give the impression that you mope and keep talking about the girl. There's only so much help/support your friends can give. When it becomes apparent that your mood isn't improving, of course they distance themselves. I'm sure they didn't mind supporting you at the beining. They probably liked it, it makes people feel good to help others (usually). But there comes a point when they just can't deal with the black cloud hanging over them. They just want to go to a movie, or go to a pub and talk about silly things. They don't always want to talk about you and how much your life sucks.

You also aren't going to find an emotionally healthy girl that wants to be around you in this state. Why would any healthy individual want to date someone who's a total wreck with a metric ton of baggage? Relationships are a two- way street. A partnership. What you're looking for isn't that. You are looking for someone to replace part of yourself you feel you've lost when that other girl left you. The only type of girl you have any probability of attracting is a fixer. And guess what? That's only going to last so long. You'll either pull yourself out of your depression and she'll get bored and leave, or she'll realize that she can't change you and you're too much to deal with.

On that same note; no one else can fix you. That's all on you. You are the only one that can improve your situation. You can do what it takes to get healthy or you can continue to wallow in your misery.

On a final note, you might want to consider doing some work with a therapist. It works.

Still have that compassion-deficit disorder, eh, DK?

It's not a lack of compassion - if he stays in the "needy" mode, someone is going to bend him over a log...

I have to reject this sentiment. The only way in which I can interpret it is as crass narcissism. Sorry, but no matter what sense of worth or confidence I can place to "me", this can't extend to love, in either sense of the word, without necessarily shutting out other people.

If you can't love and respect yourself enough to be able to make it on your own, how can you expect someone else to love you and respect you?

I have to reject this sentiment. The only way in which I can interpret it is as crass narcissism. Sorry, but no matter what sense of worth or confidence I can place to "me", this can't extend to love, in either sense of the word, without necessarily shutting out other people.

Narcissism is being self-absorbed. Many, many narcissists hate themselves, but they are the piece of poop that the world revolves around. It's an inability to be empathetic to a large degree.

"Cameron has never been in love - at least, nobody's ever been in love with him. If things don't change for him, he's gonna marry the first girl he lays, and she's gonna treat him like shit, because she will have given him what he has built up in his mind as the end-all, be-all of human existence. She won't respect him, 'cause you can't respect somebody who kisses your ass. It just doesn't work. "

Ferris was right.

I've seen happen many times before. She cheated on you, and probably now has herpes. You don't want her now. You should thank you as now you are free to be herpes free.

First of all, quit acting like you're the only person on the planet who bleeds. It's one of the most annoying traits to have someone whining "no one knows how I feel". It's complete self-centered bullshit. Besides the fact that at one point or another, most people -will- know exactly what it feels like to be lonely, rejected or dumped, your narrow little me me me world is preventing you from seeing that your friends have their own lives and possibly their own issues to deal with and that possibly... just possibly... they don't see your losing your girlfriend as horrible as oh, say, having your face chewed off by a rabid pit bull.

Second, your friends have given you, in all their wisdom, good advice. Seriously, what do you want them to tell you to do? Vandalize her house? Set fire to her cat? Find a hooker, murder her in a rage against the female population, have sex with the corpse and then spend the rest of the night dismembering it? There is nothing they can tell you, and nothing they can do, besides keeping you so drunk that you can't even remember her name, and in 5 years you'll need a new liver.

Thirdly, you aren't entitled to love. I'm sorry, that's just not how it works. You don't get a 'one free love' ticket in life. It goes right along with that whole 'life isn't fair' deal. You might get lucky enough to find love, maybe even a lasting love, but it's not guaranteed in life. Nothing ever is. Except death. It's kind of a shitty deal but you're in the same boat as the rest of the population, so get over youself. Go hug your mother or something.

Lastly, you have attachment issues. These need to be sorted out before it escalates to the point where you're arrested for stalking women you think owe you something. A relationship, indeed, even love is not mandatory in life. You need to accept that you're a worthwhile person on your -own- before you can have a healthy relationship, IMO.

Hope this helps put things in perspective a little.

Of course, you could always dump your friends and spend your days on a street corner crying in misery on your own. Might find a chick who's into that somewhere.

Nonesense yourself. This doesn't just apply to women, but anyone.

That might be why in my post, the one you quoted, I said, Most people are morons or jerks.

And of course that applies to women. Unless women aren't included in "anyone" or "people."

People tend not to like to make decisions all the time. Sometimes like to be able to relax and let someone else take the reins. This is where 'nice guys' fall down - they fawn over their centre of affections, thinking they are being nice by letting her make all the decisions.

In other words, what a woman really wants is a big strong man to make her decisions for her.

Likewise they mold themselves into what they think the girl. No one likes this. No one.

I disagree. I for one would hate to have a partner who tries to make any decisions for me. But then I'm a man and so perhaps your sexist reasoning doesn't apply to me.

Well some people do, but they're not worth being around.

Quite simply it's all about confident and independent vs insecure and dependent rather than the nice/bad dichotomy that 'nice guys' whine about.

Yep. And nothing says confident like the willingness and capacity to commit violent crimes.

I would say that it's more likely that most women just don't like whiny self hatting needy complainers who want a hero biscuit because they held a door open, listen to a story, or bought an unsolicited teddy bear. Instead they'd rather go out with the upbeat cat who can provide a good time.

I like you. :)

I would submit also that the definition of 'asshole' is often, "That dude she's dating that isn't me."

Exactly. I know that a few of my girlfriends "nice guy" friends have told her she's dating an asshole and should find someone who treats her [read, them] better.

Yes. I am an asshole. Yes, I joke around alot, often making fun of others. Yes, it is [generally] all in good fun. This applies double if I'm around my friend Jay.
And yet, this doesn't mean that I am not also a nice guy. I treat my girlfriends great. Yes, I make fun of them, but they know it is in jest, and even if they get mad, they are quick to get over it.

So why did the other guys saying I treat her horribly? Most often, because they wanted the girl I was dating. Also common was that I made a comment about them joking around as a move towards being friends with them, and they took it badly. Low self-esteem will do that to you. Or else, they were just seeing me in my joking mood, and not seeing me anywhere else.

All in all, read the first thing I quoted by CNToaN

"Cameron has never been in love - at least, nobody's ever been in love with him. If things don't change for him, he's gonna marry the first girl he lays, and she's gonna treat him like shit, because she will have given him what he has built up in his mind as the end-all, be-all of human existence. She won't respect him, 'cause you can't respect somebody who kisses your ass. It just doesn't work. "

Ferris was right.

As he usually is.

I like you. :)



Exactly. I know that a few of my girlfriends "nice guy" friends have told her she's dating an asshole and should find someone who treats her [read, them] better.

Yes. I am an asshole. Yes, I joke around alot, often making fun of others. Yes, it is [generally] all in good fun. This applies double if I'm around my friend Jay.
And yet, this doesn't mean that I am not also a nice guy. I treat my girlfriends great. Yes, I make fun of them, but they know it is in jest, and even if they get mad, they are quick to get over it.

So why did the other guys saying I treat her horribly? Most often, because they wanted the girl I was dating. Also common was that I made a comment about them joking around as a move towards being friends with them, and they took it badly. Low self-esteem will do that to you. Or else, they were just seeing me in my joking mood, and not seeing me anywhere else.

All in all, read the first thing I quoted by CNToaN



As he usually is.


It never ceases to amaze me how there are people in this world who absolutely cannot comprehend that not everyone is as unscrupulous and amoral as they are, to the point of openly doubting that decency exists.

To the OP: I've been there, so have a lot of others. Unfortunately, what was pointed out to you is true: this is an internet forum, and empathy and compassion are in short supply. As you have seen this place is rife with those who find it amusing to ridicule those in pain. They are, to a person, sad pathetic individuals who mask it by tearing others down, as it's the only way they can feel good about themselves.

Oh, of course that's the definition. It couldn't possibly be "that guy's she's with doesn't care about her, and treats her like shit", because as we all know, that never happens. Oh, never!:rolleyes:

It never ceases to amaze me how there are people in this world who absolutely cannot comprehend that not everyone is as unscrupulous and amoral as they are, to the point of openly doubting that decency exists.

I'm sorry...you seem to have difficulty understanding the difference between "often" and "always". I don't deny that there are total assholes out there who lack any sort of decent redeeming qualities. I am not amoral, nor unscrupulous. Yes, I'm an asshole. No, that does not stop me from also being a nice guy and a good person.

What a sad existance to assume that people are so one dimensional and shallow. Though, it does save actually having to get to know that asshole and see that they might just be a decent person.

Yes, I make fun of friends and girlfriends in public and private. Some people call it teasing. If it bothers them, they can speak up and I'll stop. But if one judges me from one or two encounters, or worse, from one post on a forum, well, that speaks more to them than to me.

While i sympathise with how you feel, i don't really blame your friends in this situation. No matter how much we love and care about someone, we don't want to spend all our time propping up their self-esteem and telling them they are good enough they way they are. Telling them things will be okay.

Most people will do it for awhile, because most of us want to help those we care about, we want to be there for them, but we can only do it for so long before we need to get back to our own lives. It seems to me that the way you are feeling right now, nothing they say will actually make you feel better, and that's not their fault. As was already pointed out, maybe they think it's futile to continue to listen to you and talk to you because nothing seems to be changing. Not to sound heartless, but constantly listening to someone moan about their life gets tiring, no matter how much empathy we have.

I'm not trying to downplay depression, you may indeed need professional help and i don't want to tell you to get over it, but i do think you need to realize that everyone has their own issues to deal with, it can't be all about you all the time. Your friends need you to be there for them sometimes too.

I'm sorry...you seem to have difficulty understanding the difference between "often" and "always". I don't deny that there are total assholes out there who lack any sort of decent redeeming qualities. I am not amoral, nor unscrupulous. Yes, I'm an asshole. No, that does not stop me from also being a nice guy and a good person.

What a sad existance to assume that people are so one dimensional and shallow. Though, it does save actually having to get to know that asshole and see that they might just be a decent person.

Yes, I make fun of friends and girlfriends in public and private. Some people call it teasing. If it bothers them, they can speak up and I'll stop. But if one judges me from one or two encounters, or worse, from one post on a forum, well, that speaks more to them than to me.

Yes, by definition, it does. And I only assume that those who post such things as you, DK and CTOAN have done are sad one-dimensional creatures. I don't think that of the entire human race.

Remember you're a Womble and things will turn out just fine.

Yes, by definition, it does. And I only assume that those who post such things as you, DK and CTOAN have done are sad one-dimensional creatures. I don't think that of the entire human race.

Actually, no, it doesn't. You seem to have ignored that, while yes, I do identify as an asshole, I also identify as a nice guy. The fact that you chose to focus on just the asshole part is wonderful and all, but there is more to it.

Yes. I tease people. Most people do so with the people they are comfortable with. My dad ran his motorcycle into a telephone pole and broke both legs. Am I an asshole for saying his argument that he would ride again didn't have a leg to stand on? Yep. Am I an asshole for saying I would beat him with a wooden stick, but the giant wooden stick already won? And then saying I would beat him with a metal stick, but that would be like beating him with his own leg? You bet ya.

Did I also jump into my car the second I heard, despite my mother's demands not to come? Yep. Did I sit with him for five hours so that my mom and sister didn't see him cry, and assure him that he would be fine and things would work out? Yep.

What, want more examples?

Did I mock my ex for sleeping through a final? Yep. Have I gotten her an alarm clock for her birthday every year since for the last seven years? Yep. Did I throw gummy bears at her when she said she was afraid she was getting fat? Yep.

Was I the first person at her door the day her mother found out she had breast cancer, and drive around with her for six hours, despite the fact that we had a messy break up only a week before? Damn right.

I lable myself as an asshole because that is how others have defined me. I also lable myself as a nice guy and a good boyfriend because that is how others have defined me. Most often, the two overlap. One minute, I can make fun of someone, or tease them, or joke with them. The next, I can be a nice guy. It's a shame that the words lack the depth, and that people choose to focus on the negative lable before they even consider the positive, despite the fact that the positive tends to be more prevelant in myself and may others. It is also impressive that, while you claim that the two are mutually exclusive, you've decided that "asshole" MUST be the correct one, and not "nice guy". Seems you like to assume the bad, as most people do. As I said, it saves you from possibly liking someone you consider or considered an asshole.

And amazingly, you judging me off a whole what? 4 posts? does put you in the list of people who choose to make a snap judgement. CNToaN has made what? three posts here? And yet, you've made the same judgement about him. That isn't our problem or fault. I have some 7,000 posts here, many of which show very different personalities. Ditto that to CNToaN.

Yes, by definition, it does. And I only assume that those who post such things as you, DK and CTOAN have done are sad one-dimensional creatures. I don't think that of the entire human race.

And what, exactly, have I posted that catagorizes me as such? That I don't faun over self described 'nice guys' or grab a pitchfork and torch to go after the ill-defined 'assholes?' This makes me a one-dimensional creature?

It's this reductive nonsense that makes me dismiss these self described 'nice guys.' Such self described 'nice guys' tend to do such dispicable things to their potential or actual signifigent others like hold them emotionally hostage, create a sense of dependency, and a constant need for affirmation. That's emotional abuse, it's draining and damaging in the long term, far more than if someone doesn't remember a date or buys a crappy birthday gift. Fuck that.

No where am I advocating treating women like doormats, please point to where I did. I'm just not buying into this 'Whoa is me' self sainting nonsense about 'nice guys' and 'assholes' that frankly insults the hell out of women everywhere.

...

stop being me

Might want to reread that first sentence =P

Yes. but since the bad boys get the morons, it leaves us well-adjusted intelligent chicks wide open for the nice guys.

Well, those of us not taken yet.

Oh, of course that's the definition. It couldn't possibly be "that guy's she's with doesn't care about her, and treats her like shit", because as we all know, that never happens. Oh, never!:rolleyes:
... you did see where he said "often", right? And you got the tone in which it was said, right? And you did read his initial post before that, right? You know, the one on the first page that had an extremely well-reasoned, helpful, sensible and compassionate answer to the OP's quandary?

It never ceases to amaze me how there are people in this world who absolutely cannot comprehend that not everyone is as unscrupulous and amoral as they are, to the point of openly doubting that decency exists.

To the OP: I've been there, so have a lot of others. Unfortunately, what was pointed out to you is true: this is an internet forum, and empathy and compassion are in short supply. As you have seen this place is rife with those who find it amusing to ridicule those in pain. They are, to a person, sad pathetic individuals who mask it by tearing others down, as it's the only way they can feel good about themselves.
Yes, by definition, it does. And I only assume that those who post such things as you, DK and CTOAN have done are sad one-dimensional creatures. I don't think that of the entire human race.
Are you high? o_O

What on earth are you basing that shit on? Because there sure as hell is nothing in this thread nor in the posting history of either Sarkhaan or CToaN that lends itself to any of those descriptions, not even a little bit.

And what, exactly, have I posted that catagorizes me as such? That I don't faun over self described 'nice guys' or grab a pitchfork and torch to go after the ill-defined 'assholes?' This makes me a one-dimensional creature?

It's this reductive nonsense that makes me dismiss these self described 'nice guys.' Such self described 'nice guys' tend to do such dispicable things to their potential or actual signifigent others like hold them emotionally hostage, create a sense of dependency, and a constant need for affirmation. That's emotional abuse, it's draining and damaging in the long term, far more than if someone doesn't remember a date or buys a crappy birthday gift. Fuck that.

No where am I advocating treating women like doormats, please point to where I did. I'm just not buying into this 'Whoa is me' self sainting nonsense about 'nice guys' and 'assholes' that frankly insults the hell out of women everywhere.
Ditto all of this, as it is nearly perfectly said. I would add one more thing. Declaring oneself as a "nice guy" and not recognizing that we are all, in fact, assholes at times is not only a blatant lie, but a move for pity...be it self pity or some other form. It is essentially using the two ladder argument in a move to say "I can't get a girl because I'm a nice guy". It is simultaneously self-loathing and loathing of others. "I'm a great person! Why can't I get a girlfriend? I treat this girl amazingly, yet she still likes this person whom I consider to be an asshole!"

Could it be that she just isn't in to you? No, never...it's because she just likes assholes. And you are, of course, a "nice guy".

Now, look at that statement. This great friend of yours whom you love and worship...likes assholes. Now consider "You're only as good as the company you keep". What have you just said about this girl whom you metaphorically fellate? She is a poor judge of character? She likes abuse? No matter how you rationalize it, you've insulted her (and really, all women) so you can put yourself as the victim. It can't be your fault...you're a nice guy. But you love her, so it can't be her fault. So it must be the assholes fault.


It is self-deception, self-pity, and really, quite an assholish move.

We are almost all "nice guys". We're almost all "assholes". Fuck the labels. They never have, and never will work. They are nothing short of a cop-out.
stop being me

haha...could it be that I'm your personality doppleganger? Maybe we're fraternal twins...after all, we did both come in tops in the "hot guy" thread...

... you did see where he said "often", right? And you got the tone in which it was said, right? And you did read his initial post before that, right? You know, the one on the first page that had an extremely well-reasoned, helpful, sensible and compassionate answer to the OP's quandary?



Are you high? o_O

What on earth are you basing that shit on? Because there sure as hell is nothing in this thread nor in the posting history of either Sarkhaan or CToaN that lends itself to any of those descriptions, not even a little bit.
:fluffle:
I will admit, empathy and sympathy are in short supply due to recent events...which is why I didn't respond directly to the OP other than to warn him that, well, as Maineiacs stated, empathy and sympathy are in short supply around NSG.

I do find the irony in his posts somewhat amusing...accusing me and/or others of cutting down others to feel better about ourselves while doing the same to us.
And nice to see you around here :)

Perhaps they are not attracted to the asshole-behavior itself, but something else that just happens to go along with the asshole-behavior. Like being "upbeat." Yeah, I can think of a great many upbeat assholes.

Upbeat? Trying "being assertive".

No, don't tell me I'm wrong, because we both know I'm not. I'm a recovering "Nice Guy" and lemme tell you that there's a big misnomer here. Sure, jerks exist. But the main difference between a Jerk and a Nice Guy is that Nice Guys usually lack a backbone. That's what makes 'em Nice. They're not any more inclined to be good people. They, like the Jerks, run the gambit from good people to straight up douchebags. It's just that they don't have the cajones to be honest about how they feel.

And no, it's not that women want a Conan to make all of her decisions. She prolly just prefers someone who's confident in themselves. Superiority/Inferiority complexes are really annoying.

Nonesense yourself. This doesn't just apply to women, but anyone. People tend not to like to make decisions all the time. Sometimes like to be able to relax and let someone else take the reins. This is where 'nice guys' fall down - they fawn over their centre of affections, thinking they are being nice by letting her make all the decisions. Likewise they mold themselves into what they think the girl. No one likes this. No one.

"I don't mind. It's all about what you want."

Been There, Done That. ETC.

Quite simply it's all about confident and independent vs insecure and dependent rather than the nice/bad dichotomy that 'nice guys' whine about.

That dichotomy may exist, but it's largely irrelevant, contrary to popular belief.

If you can't love and respect yourself enough to be able to make it on your own, how can you expect someone else to love you and respect you?
I respect and stand up for myself in order to make it on my own, but I must do so without love for myself. I need to be prepared to constantly tear down and rebuild every aspect of my identity in order to adapt to new challenges in this world, and I can't do that if I care too deeply for myself.

As for the love of others, I know better than to think that love can be demanded. I don't expect others to love or respect me. I don't even expect them to notice me. I control only my life and my decisions, and the life I lead and the decisions made with that control are those that suit the greater good. Whether or not people love or respect me for that is not my concern. It may well be that my standing up for common interests does have a positive impact, but that is a side-effect of my choices, not their intention.

Does that make sense?

Many, many narcissists hate themselves, but they are the piece of poop that the world revolves around. It's an inability to be empathetic to a large degree.
That's what I mean. Self-love creates a sense of identity that gets in the way of empathy. You can't be empathetic if you refuse to yield those traits of your personality that you consider dear to you.

Laerod, Do you consider yourself a nice guy?Currently yes. But I've dipped into some of the "dark triad" before whilst recovering from a nasty break up and discovered that it's a lot easier to convince girls to sleep with you if you don't really care whether they'll regret it later. Not that I didn't pay attention to the consequences, but I couldn't really muster feelings of caring.

"I want, I take" is going to lead to more results than "I want, but I'll only take if she wants it too".

Yes. but since the bad boys get the morons, it leaves us well-adjusted intelligent chicks wide open for the nice guys.

Well, those of us not taken yet.Even well-adjusted intelligent chicks like bad boys =P

It's more of a general rule. There are certain noble attributes, such as chivalry and compassion, that are hindersome in getting you laid often with (different) girls. On the other hand, lacking said qualities is bad for longer lasting relationships.

"I want, I take" is going to lead to more results than "I want, but I'll only take if she wants it too".
Depends on what you consider a "result", I suppose. In a culture of immediate gratification, where the purpose of social engagement is pleasure, then obviously those who seize are those who will prosper. If you're more interested in a wider vision, however, then there's no reason to assume that actively taking what you want will further your long-term causes.

I respect and stand up for myself in order to make it on my own, but I must do so without love for myself. I need to be prepared to constantly tear down and rebuild every aspect of my identity in order to adapt to new challenges in this world, and I can't do that if I care too deeply for myself.

That's what I mean. Self-love creates a sense of identity that gets in the way of empathy. You can't be empathetic if you refuse to yield those traits of your personality that you consider dear to you.

I guess it just depends on your definition of love. One can be constantly changing and flexible, and yet still love oneself for exactly that capacity to change and adapt to the circumstances. Self-love doesn't have to be a fixed love for certain personality traits. It is more like love for one's mother - it doesn't matter what kind of person the mother is, the child will love her for what she represents in his life. Loving oneself mostly means being comfortable with one's own existence and accepting it as something positive, even enjoyable.

One doesn't have to be completely faceless and devoid of any personality traits in order to be empathic. It is enough to just step away from one's own image of the world and objectively consider another's situation or point of view. So the only situation where self love would be an obstacle to empathy would be if being 100% empathic to another's situation would involve denying one's own (right to) existence, which then from the evolutionary point of view makes self love a good thing.

It's true. (http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/love/mg19826614.100-bad-men-get-the-most-girls.html)

That is an interesting article. I am not that personality type however I have learned to mimic it to my advantage.


As for the OP. You need to get control of your runaway emotions. The best way I suppose for you to do this is pretend everything is ok and start dating again. You don't need to hold up the charade forever with pretending things are alright however you need people to hang with. You wont get them to hang with you if you are feeling sad and sorry for yourself all the time. Who wants to hang around that guy?

According to my psychology course, that feeling will end if you become involved in a consistent sexual relationship, or when you reach your mid-20's.

Other than that I have nothing to say, because I feel unpleasent myself. Sorry.

I wish posters in this thread would be a little more sympathetic, or just keep their mouths shut. No one's making you read this thread, no one's making you reply to it, and no one's making you take shots at the depressed person. Have a little class.:mad:

That said, I don't really have much of a constructive response. It's probably true that you'll get along better with your friends if you don't complain about how bad you feel all the time. But I don't know them, I don't know you, and I don't know the situation your in.

If you really feel you can't cope with life, then you should probably see a psychiatrist. If so however, I strongly advise that you always get a second opinion (this goes for any doctor). Me giving you advice about your social life would be pointless, as I'm quite the loner, and rather social inept.

Good luck, hope your life improves soon.

I wish posters in this thread would be a little more sympathetic, or just keep their mouths shut. No one's making you read this thread, no one's making you reply to it, and no one's making you take shots at the depressed person. Have a little class.:mad:

Since when does class mean helping someone indulge in their symphony of despair? We are trying to help, but by trying to get the OP to realize that this isn't the end of the world.

If you really feel you can't cope with life, then you should probably see a psychiatrist. If so however, I strongly advise that you always get a second opinion (this goes for any doctor). Me giving you advice about your social life would be pointless, as I'm quite the loner, and rather social inept.

Good luck, hope your life improves soon.

If this is true clinical depression, then yes. That's the solution. But this sounds like everyday breakup angst to me. I'm no stranger to angst, believe me. I'm still a teenager, so I've angsted within recent memory (granted I'm weeks away from 18, so my hormonal wangsting is long since past I hope) but I still remember that just because I felt like my life sucked... that didn't mean it did.

Well this makes me feel a lot better about my post-breakup post. At least I had a poll.

It's more of a general rule. There are certain noble attributes, such as chivalry and compassion, that are hindersome in getting you laid often with (different) girls.

There are also times when "chivalry" goes too far and a girl starts to wonder if the "nice guy" is really that interested. There are plenty of nice guys I never even knew were into me until much later, because they were busy being sweet and non-threatening and never made a move. For better or worse, much of the time men are expected to be the aggressors; we expect you to approach us, ask us out, try to get in our pants, etc etc. Not always true, of course, but the guy who doesn't show an inclination to do these things usually goes into my "just wants to be friends" category.

I also agree with whoever said something about women not wanting to be fawned over. I don't want a devotee, I want an equal. I think most people who are confident in themselves do.