NationStates Jolt Archive

Outa the Christians, what about the Pagans huh huh?

I'll start then. I used to be a Pagan, but after almost 20 years I just got feed up of all the lovly fluffyness.

Pagans phttha, it's not all love all the way you know.

Pagans suck!

There you go.

What's wrong with pagans exactly...?

If you're serious and not just spamming, then please define "pagan." There are so many different kinds, you know... Or if you're just fooling around then up yours, ex-pagan apostate! *casts hex*

Pagans suck!

There you go.

What's wrong with pagans exactly...?

Man they live in this strange world where everything is light and fluffy, and evil does not occour, they belive that love will cure all of the worlds ills.

They preach an impossiblity.

When I was in college the first time I started to hang out with the Wiccans in the Wiccan Student Union. I was a Catholic in those days and not looking to convert, but I did want to learn about other beliefs and stuff and I was warmly welcomed. I got to see a lot of what they believed in and how they expressed it.

Ironically, I bumped into a girl I'd gone to Catholic school with, and she assumed I too had converted to Wicca.

I attended several meetings on campus and a couple of activities off-campus. It was cool.

And Wiccan's, well they are the worst of the bunch. I'd rather go out drinking with Thelemites!:D

When I was in college the first time I started to hang out with the Wiccans in the Wiccan Student Union. I was a Catholic in those days and not looking to convert, but I did want to learn about other beliefs and stuff and I was warmly welcomed. I got to see a lot of what they believed in and how they expressed it.

Ironically, I bumped into a girl I'd gone to Catholic school with, and she assumed I too had converted to Wicca.

I attended several meetings on campus and a couple of activities off-campus. It was cool.

If you're serious and not just spamming, then please define "pagan." There are so many different kinds, you know... Or if you're just fooling around then up yours, ex-pagan apostate! *casts hex*

Well I would not call this an attempt at seriousness would you? However I do find, many, many Pagans gulity of the charges of living in a make belive world full of love and light.

Well I would not call this an attempt at seriousness would you? However I do find, many, many Pagans gulity of the charges of living in a make belive world full of love and light.
Well, duh. So do most US voters. Wishful thinking is perhaps the biggest, most dangerous pandemic in the world today.

Well, duh. So do most US voters. Wishful thinking is perhaps the biggest, most dangerous pandemic in the world today.

Heheh are you then saying that most US voters are Pagan?

Man they live in this strange world where everything is light and fluffy, and evil does not occour, they belive that love will cure all of the worlds ills.

They preach an impossiblity.

Sounds like a bunch of optimists to me. I hope they spread - if the entire world consisted of optimists, it'd be a much better place.

Of course, if optimism is a prerequisite of joining them, that leaves me right out in the cold.

Well, duh. So do most US voters. Wishful thinking is perhaps the biggest, most dangerous pandemic in the world today.

Why?

I was a Pagan, specifically Wiccan, for several years. Yes, it does tend to the sweetness and light, the world is a friendly place, can't we all just get along path. It also encourages really unhealthy magical thinking, then when the spell (read prayer with bells and whistles) doesn't work, they hand you the same kind of explanation any other religion does - you "didn't have enough faith" or "you didn't do it right."

I like it because it encourages cooperation while keeping individuality, it's accepting of everyone, it tries to flow with nature rather than against it.

I don't like it because it's as full of misinformation and outright lies as any other religion.

Like Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and any other well established religion, they will seize on the few facts that support their particular brand of cloud cuckoo land and ignore the facts that don't.

Heheh are you then saying that most US voters are Pagan?
*hexes Peepelonia with a curse of a thousand slow leak tire flats for his "wit"* No, I'm saying that most people find the weather up their own asses to be mild and pleasant, regardless of their religious affiliation or lack thereof.

Why?
Because it's unrealistic and self-serving. Bush's Iraq policy is based entirely on wishful thinking, for instance (not meant to be a hijack).

And Wiccan's, well they are the worst of the bunch.

Only the Wiccans that claim "their religion is thousands of years old". The selfrespecting witches and druids of old would cut open and urinate into a Wiccans body before considering themselves "similar" ;)

Honest Wiccans otoh can be fun to be around.

Because it's unrealistic and self-serving. Bush's Iraq policy is based entirely on wishful thinking, for instance (not meant to be a hijack).

I see what you mean. Sorry, I was confusing "wishful thinking" with optimism, or hopeful thinking.

*hexes Peepelonia with a curse of a thousand slow leak tire flats for his "wit"* No, I'm saying that most people find the weather up their own asses to be mild and pleasant, regardless of their religious affiliation or lack thereof.

Your hexes mean nowt to me, I know well the law of threefold return!:D

Only the Wiccans that claim "their religion is thousands of years old". The selfrespecting witches and druids of old would cut open and urinate into a Wiccans body before considering themselves "similar" ;)

Honest Wiccans otoh can be fun to be around.

Well I agree,but that is another thing, what witches and druids of old, none of their laws or rites survive.

And Wiccan's, well they are the worst of the bunch. I'd rather go out drinking with Thelemites!:D

Gah... Fluffy Bunny Wiccans, kill 'em, kill 'em quick before they breed. There was a reason I stopped hanging around our uni's Pagan Soc. My rant generally went like this: "no the religion is not a thousand years old, everything is not nice and happy because that's how nature is, nature is bloody brutal, live with it. Oh and magic is not spelt with a 'k' and you can't cast spells"

And this is coming from a neo-pagan/wiccan :D I think neo-paganism does have some very nice ideas, which is why I follow that path. However, I think a lot of teenage-orientated 'magick' books don't help. Not all rituals and spells have this issue, after all rituals are just another way of worship and a lot of 'spells' when you get down to it are more about meditation and changing the self.

But then I'm probably quite a cynical example of a pagan and I have been in contact with farrrrr too many bad examples.

I'll start then. I used to be a Pagan, but after almost 20 years I just got feed up of all the lovly fluffyness.


Nothing wrong with lovely fluffiness.

Aye, Paganism is shite, as is Wiccanism, which has about as much historical tradition as the Ford Model T.

Gah... Fluffy Bunny Wiccans, kill 'em, kill 'em quick before they breed. There was a reason I stopped hanging around our uni's Pagan Soc. My rant generally went like this: "no the religion is not a thousand years old, everything is not nice and happy because that's how nature is, nature is bloody brutal, live with it. Oh and magic is not spelt with a 'k' and you can't cast spells"

And this is coming from a neo-pagan/wiccan :D

*raises glass*

Said it all, my friend. Can't think of anything to add to that....

Nothing wrong with lovely fluffiness.

Grrrrrr! Tell that to hecate!:eek:

Man they live in this strange world where everything is light and fluffy, and evil does not occour, they belive that love will cure all of the worlds ills.

They preach an impossiblity.

You DO realize that many of us see it in terms of method and science, which can be used either way, good or bad, right? As opposed to "light and fluffy".

You DO realize that many of us see it in terms of method and science, which can be used either way, right? As opposed to "light and fluffy".

No you are all the same, there is no schizm, you are alike in every detail!

There's nothing wrong with the Model T! Perfectly good car ;)
Couldn't claim it was from before the Great War, though.

Aye, Paganism is shite, as is Wiccanism, which has about as much historical tradition as the Ford Model T.

There's nothing wrong with the Model T! Perfectly good car ;)

Couldn't claim it was from before the Great War, though.

Heh that one makes me laugh. The Great war! Like all the old timers get together and say things like:

'Ohh remeber that world war one, that was a great war that was'

'Ohh yeah they don't make em like that anymore'

'These kids today don't know their fighting'

I've yet to see a proper pagan religious group. Where's the human sacrifice? Where's the 'getting up and dawn to rip a goat apart with your bare hands, then partying all day and doing it again at midnight'? Where's the hauling massive stones hundreds of miles and building circles out of them?

Just dont get pagans like you used to these days.

Back in MY day pagans dragged huge stones hundreds of miles! In the snow! Barefoot! Uphill both ways! And they did it without the wheel, too!

Who?

Ya mum!:D

Grrrrrr! Tell that to hecate!:eek:

Who?

Grrrrrr! Tell that to hecate!:eek:

The mythological one or the version by Anne Bishop ?
*prefers the last one*

No you are all the same, there is no schizm, you are alike in every detail!

*Assimilates Peepelonia*

If you're serious and not just spamming, then please define "pagan." There are so many different kinds, you know... Or if you're just fooling around then up yours, ex-pagan apostate! *casts hex*

Well, I'll just go with the accepted definition of a pagan as a "heathen"

And Wiccan's, well they are the worst of the bunch. I'd rather go out drinking with Thelemites!:D

Damn you for making me look that up...

Your hexes mean nowt to me, I know well the law of threefold return!:D
Bah! That's them Wiccans. I'm not in that club. That's why I suggested you might want to be specific about your target before pissing off all pagans. ;)

Well, I'll just go with the accepted definition of a pagan as a "heathen"

*glares* Define "heathen," please.

*glares* Define "heathen," please.

Heathen is defined as anyone who isn't a member of an Abrahamic religion.

Heathen is defined as anyone who isn't a member of an Abrahamic religion.

Nonsense. It is everyone who does not adhere to the right flavour of Abrahamic religion.
You will find out which one was right (if any) just after the end of your life.

Heathen is defined as anyone who isn't a member of an Abrahamic religion.

Nonsense. It is everyone who does not adhere to the right flavour of Abrahamic religion.
You will find out which one was right (if any) just after the end of your life.
That's not actually what the word "heathen" means, but it's a good broad brush, either way, and doesn't really help the matter at all. I just want someone to confirm that this is just going to be about Wiccans so I can ignore it, since I'm not a Wiccan and none of the dismissive jokes that will be made about them will apply to me.

ERIS! Up in this motherfucker! :p

I'd take Pagans instead of Christians anytime (with the exception of Mormons). At least Pagans have a good sense of humor and do not judge.

I'd take Pagans instead of Christians anytime (with the exception of Mormons). At least Pagans have a good sense of humor and do not judge.

:D

I'd take Pagans instead of Christians anytime (with the exception of Mormons). At least Pagans have a good sense of humor and do not judge.

I'd take specific people over huge generalizations any day.

Well I would not call this an attempt at seriousness would you? However I do find, many, many Pagans gulity of the charges of living in a make belive world full of love and light.

Meh. Most of the ones I've hung with in Santa Cruz are of one of two camps: fluff and light, or sarcastic philosophy majors. Which is to say, not fluff and light.

Pagan, shmagans: All will be ground under the heel of the New Satanic Order.:D

*glares* Define "heathen," please.

Anyone I don't agree with. :p

Meh. Most of the ones I've hung with in Santa Cruz are of one of two camps: fluff and light, or sarcastic philosophy majors. Which is to say, not fluff and light.

Actually the celtic neopagans I know tend to sing stuff like "KILL for Morrigan ! MAIM for Morrigan ! FIGHT for Morrigan ! SLAY for Morrigan ! DIE for Morrigan !- MORRIGAN CRONE OF WAR !"

Very fluffy.

Heathen is defined as anyone who isn't a member of an Abrahamic religion.

Heathen is defined as "heath dweller" or a person who lives in the country, just as pagan is defined as "country dweller." Originally Heathens and Pagans were the unsophisticated hicks from the country as opposed to the sophisticated urbanites. They were the ones most in tune with the natural world around them, as the city dwellers were separated from nature. That created a natural division further exacerbated by the fact that the Christian religion separated the Human race from the natural world. The Christians became more and more city and town dwellers and the country people, on the surface espousing Christianity, clung to their old beliefs. This was the original separation between Christian and Pagan or Heathen.

I'd take specific people over huge generalizations any day.

Is true.

I'd take specific people over huge generalizations any day.

That's my experience with Christians. They're incredibly judgmental, and Pagans aren't. Once again, in my experience.

Their are so many different kinds of pagans that you'll have to define who you're talking about. And what definition of pagan are you using? If you mean anyone who's not Christian, then I'd say this is probably just us vs the world trolling.

Still, I'm up for a little pagan bashing if I can count Scientology.:upyours:

Or, hell, any organized religions. They pretty much all suck, in my experience, if in varying ways and degrees.

PS: I should note I don't really think of Scientology as a religion. Its half cult, half organized crime.

Their are so many different kinds of pagans that you'll have to define who you're talking about. And what definition of pagan are you using? If you mean anyone who's not Christian, then I'd say this is probably just us vs the world trolling.

Still, I'm up for a little pagan bashing if I can count Scientology.:upyours:

Or, hell, any organized religions. They pretty much all suck, in my experience, if in varying ways and degrees.

PS: I should note I don't really think of Scientology as a religion. Its half cult, half organized crime.

See, I would take this post more seriously and answer it thoughtfully if it lacked that UpYours smiley.

Actually the celtic neopagans I know tend to sing stuff like "KILL for Morrigan ! MAIM for Morrigan ! FIGHT for Morrigan ! SLAY for Morrigan ! DIE for Morrigan !- MORRIGAN CRONE OF WAR !"

Very fluffy.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c4/Morrigan(Darkstalkers).jpg

Morrigan! :D

Is there a "turned on" smiley? <.< >.>

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c4/Morrigan(Darkstalkers).jpg

Morrigan! :D

Is there a "turned on" smiley? <.< >.>

She´s so hawt!:eek:

Pagans suck!

There you go.

What's wrong with pagans exactly...?

I met at least five pagans in the Phillipines and they were all as hateful as the Muslims. They somehow found out that I was Christian went over and ranted and raved about how they wanted to kill me for being Christian and how they'd curse me and stuff. I didn't even do a single thing to them let alone know them. I think it is now clear why all this Christian bashing pisses me off. I don't support the bad stuff SOME Christians do but bashing and hating the ENTIRE religion because of a few bastards despite the fact that every other religion on earth has bastards too which remain ultimately ignored really pisses me off. Ever hear "there's a snake in every forest" or "every barrel has a bad apple"?

Ever since my experience in the Phillipines I've stopped respecting them completely. I now see them as a bunch of power hungry belligerents.

Man they live in this strange world where everything is light and fluffy, and evil does not occour, they belive that love will cure all of the worlds ills.

They preach an impossiblity.

Good God, my theory of a Pagan takeover during the 60s was correct. That sounds like what the dems and the hippies preached. :eek:

To Nanatsu no Tsuki: The graphics I choose to use do not negate the validity of the point I am making. Style over substance is a fairly standard debating fallacy, isn't it?

To South Lizasauria: you point out that people should not judge all Christians alike based on the actions of a few, then do the same to pagans? A bit of a double standard, wouldn't you say?

She´s so hawt!:eek:

Yup. Thought you knew her though...

I don't support the bad stuff SOME Christians do but bashing and hating the ENTIRE religion because of a few bastards despite the fact that every other religion on earth has bastards too which remain ultimately ignored really pisses me off. Ever hear "there's a snake in every forest" or "every barrel has a bad apple"?

Ever since my experience in the Phillipines I've stopped respecting them completely. I now see them as a bunch of power hungry belligerents.

And you are falling into that exact same mentality, only worse. The term "pagan" is used to refer to a family of religions, not an individual religion. It is a term used in the same way as "Abrahamic" is used to refer to Christianity, Islam and Judaism. So your regarding all pagan as "power hungry belligerents" is referring to people from many different, often very different, religions.

That's not actually what the word "heathen" means, but it's a good broad brush, either way, and doesn't really help the matter at all. I just want someone to confirm that this is just going to be about Wiccans so I can ignore it, since I'm not a Wiccan and none of the dismissive jokes that will be made about them will apply to me.

1 : an unconverted member of a people or nation that does not acknowledge the God of the Bible
You can even go into the origins of the word for further confirmation if you wish.

That's my experience with Christians. They're incredibly judgmental, and Pagans aren't. Once again, in my experience.

It seems wildly judgmental to generalize an entire people group based on your limited contact with some of them you didn't like.

My experience with black people tends to be they don't speak proper English and live on welfare and shoot potatoes at my dog with cannons.
This of course has nothing to do with black people in general.

Bah! That's them Wiccans. I'm not in that club. That's why I suggested you might want to be specific about your target before pissing off all pagans. ;)

All of them! All of them I say!:D

I'd take Pagans instead of Christians anytime (with the exception of Mormons). At least Pagans have a good sense of humor and do not judge.

Ohhh they bloody do you know.

Pagan, shmagans: All will be ground under the heel of the New Satanic Order.:D

Bah and I include them.

Actually the celtic neopagans I know tend to sing stuff like "KILL for Morrigan ! MAIM for Morrigan ! FIGHT for Morrigan ! SLAY for Morrigan ! DIE for Morrigan !- MORRIGAN CRONE OF WAR !"

Very fluffy.

Ummm roleplayers by chance? Or even worse re-inactors *shudder*

I know some Asatru, not the skinhead type (in fact, they LOATHE them) who definitely have their heads screwed on straight and are good people.

I'd take specific people over huge generalizations any day.

^ ^
^ ^
This.

Yup. Thought you knew her though...

Mórrigan, from the anime? I know of the character. Also, I know of the crone goddess (although I forget her 3 incarnations) of Celtic mythology. Why?

I know some Asatru, not the skinhead type (in fact, they LOATHE them) who definitely have their heads screwed on straight and are good people.



^ ^
^ ^
This.

Ahhhh yeah I'm propeared to not count them. Most of them are okay, some are racist bits of shit, and one or two are clearly mad as fuckin' really mad things.

Mórrigan, from the anime? I know of the character. Also, I know of the crone goddess (although I forget her 3 incarnations) of Celtic mythology. Why?

Just making sure. And yes, I also know of the goddess. ;)

Just making sure. And yes, I also know of the goddess. ;)

Ah, ok.

I used to be an extremely fluffy wiccan when I was in highschool. I was an absolute Christaphobe at that time. My make believe world wasn't nice though. I lived in a world where the Christians were actively preparing to burn me at the stake, after stoning me to death for being socialist homo scum.

Sadly, most of the Wiccans I know of (aside from the traditional British Wiccans) fit into this category. Read the Witchvox forums and you will see that most of them are arrogant loons. And the vast majority of the authors for Llewlyn are fluffbunnies as well.

I now consider myself a neopagan, but don't follow any specific path.

You can even go into the origins of the word for further confirmation if you wish.
Fine, be that way. See how you are? :p

All of them! All of them I say!:D
Fine, be that way. See how you are? :p

Ahhhh yeah I'm propeared to not count them. Most of them are okay, some are racist bits of shit, and one or two are clearly mad as fuckin' really mad things.
Isn't that true of every group of people?

I met at least five pagans in the Phillipines and they were all as hateful as the Muslims. They somehow found out that I was Christian went over and ranted and raved about how they wanted to kill me for being Christian and how they'd curse me and stuff. I didn't even do a single thing to them let alone know them. I think it is now clear why all this Christian bashing pisses me off. I don't support the bad stuff SOME Christians do but bashing and hating the ENTIRE religion because of a few bastards despite the fact that every other religion on earth has bastards too which remain ultimately ignored really pisses me off. Ever hear "there's a snake in every forest" or "every barrel has a bad apple"?

Ever since my experience in the Phillipines I've stopped respecting them completely. I now see them as a bunch of power hungry belligerents.

You say that you should not judge an entire group based on the actions of a few of its members, and then you go and do just that. You went and made a nice first paragraph, then went and contradicted it in the second.

Pagan sounds like some kind of fried meat on a stick, like a corndog or something. Maybe I'm just hungry.

If you're serious and not just spamming, then please define "pagan." There are so many different kinds, you know... Or if you're just fooling around then up yours, ex-pagan apostate! *casts hex*

Isn't pagan just a catch-all phrase for virtually everything that is not an Abrahamic religion? In other words, it is a term that defines something as not being something else, which is pretty unhelpful.

I now consider myself a neopagan, but don't follow any specific path.

Hey, snap.

I tend to actually find that most of the less fluffy and more sensible pagans, even if the path they follow could really be called wicca will tend to call themselves neo-pagans instead. Mostly to avoid association with the fluffy bunny teenage wiccans (and all that entails) or the witchvox loons and also to emphasise the fact that yes, they know the religion is not a thousand years old, thank you.

Couldn't claim it was from before the Great War, though.


Your just insulting me and trying to undermine my faith in the Model T! It was the first car in the world and was made by Henry himself out of the love and kindess of his heart so that we may all travel in the countryside at weekends to smile, laugh, and play happily in the fields, with lovely fluffy bunny rabbits, white puffy clouds and golden sunshine! And it was a wonderful car until evil General Motors come along and crushed The Great T under their heel and burned good ole Henry at the stake, and pretened the Model T was just an evil fad!