NationStates Jolt Archive

So, last Tuesday, I was hanging out with my friend, we were going to my house from the golf course. Yea, we've been playing golf together. Anyways, on the way home, we see this Driver's Ed car, and it was...a Lexus! You'd think I'm kidding, but I'm not. Hell, when I was learning how to drive, it was in a beat up Ford from the 1990s. My friend also learned how to drive in a second hand beat up car. This was a brand new Lexus.

So, I turned to my friend and I said "You know, I'm going to stop paying the school taxes. If they can afford Lexus's, we're paying way too much." I mean comon, if I drove in a second hand beat up car, then I want children today to be in the same or similar car! Why should they get to miss out on the joy of having to pull on the side of the road because the back bumper fell off?

Of course my friend is like, "Ah let them drive the Lexus, because I guarantee you that their first car will be a junker." We both agree that if we ever got married and had a child, that he may learn to drive in a fancy car like a Lexus or a BMW, but the car we're going to give them will be a junker. Hey, it's either drive that or take the bus.

So, has anyone else noticed their public schools having some high end stuff? It doesn't has to be just cars, it can be other stuff that makes you scratch your head and say "How much are we giving the school?"

Wow. That's quite ridiculous. I wish I would have learned to drive in that. Mine was a Ford Escort circa 1994 or something. Anyhow...Maybe it was just someone's car and they put a "student driver" thing on the roof? Like it wasn't all wired up with the extra foot break and whatnot.

Many of our government officials sport luxury cars while there are still children who walks kilometers over mountains and streams just to get to school. NO wonder people resent the taxes...

Way back in the stone age, the HS I went to had their Drivers Ed cars donated by local dealerships every few years. When a new one was donated, the old one went to the Auto Shop class as a learning tool.

"How much are we giving the school?"
Too much.

Many of our government officials sport luxury cars while there are still children who walks kilometers over mountains and streams just to get to school. NO wonder people resent the taxes...

It depends though. I have no problems with a senator, for example, who earned millions in the private sector before becoming a politician. What I do have a problem with are career politicians where that is the only thing they've done, and they've made all their money that way.

are you sure it was a public school car instead of a private driving school car?

On my super sweet sixteen there was a girl crying "You've ruined EVERYTHING" because she got her Lexus too early on in the course of her birthday.

I sometimes wonder why MTV are producing Al-Qaeda recruitment videos.

are you sure it was a public school car instead of a private driving school car?

The only private school in this area is an Elementary one.

I have seen the floor plans for new schools and they are getting flat screen plasma tvs in the HALLWAYS, there purpose is to display the school happenings.

I wish I had a plama tv for my hallway.


Editing note: This was for a public school

I have seen the floor plans for new schools and they are getting flat screen plasma tvs in the HALLWAYS, there purpose is to display the school happenings.

I wish I had a plama tv for my hallway.

I wish I had a plasma tv PERIOD

Uh, what's wrong with the instructor owning a Lexus?

Do you think the school bought that for him/her?

I have seen the floor plans for new schools and they are getting flat screen plasma tvs in the HALLWAYS, there purpose is to display the school happenings.

I wish I had a plama tv for my hallway.


Editing note: This was for a public school

I'm going to miss the digital clocks and the laptops in every classroom..

What I do have a problem with are career politicians where that is the only thing they've done, and they've made all their money that way.
Usually that's the case, or that they get so much richer after assuming office.

I'm going to miss the digital clocks and the laptops in every classroom..

Digital clocks? Laptops?

I don't remember those in school. How about PCs and a standard clock with hands? Those are what I remember.

I wish I had a plasma tv PERIOD

Agreed, well I wish I had a LCD or anything flat screen

Digital clocks? Laptops?

I don't remember those in school. How about PCs and a standard clock with hands? Those are what I remember.

Haha, oldy.

Also, how do you know their first car will be a junker, Wil?

I know a girl who got a Lexus for her first car, and a guy that got a BMW to start off with.

Haha, oldy.

Also, how do you know their first car will be a junker, Wil?

I know a girl who got a Lexus for her first car, and a guy that got a BMW to start off with.

Well it will be once the teen have an accident with the very expensive Lexus or BMW.

"Wow...so maybe giving you a brand new high end car for your first car wasn't such a good idea."

I cannot tell you how many times I've had accidents in my first car, and the parents who are stupid enough to give their teenagers a brand new car for their first car, deserve all the trouble that comes with it.

Well it will be once the teen have an accident with the very expensive Lexus or BMW.

"Wow...so maybe giving you a brand new high end car for your first car wasn't such a good idea."

I cannot tell you how many times I've had accidents in my first car, and the parents who are stupid enough to give their teenagers a brand new car for their first car, deserve all the trouble that comes with it.

Neither of them wrecked their cars, and it's been well over a year.

Tell me, why would they deserve that? I mean, sure, buying Nick Hogan a Supra was really fucking stupid, but what's wrong with buying your kid a nice car?

Haha, oldy.

Can't say I am that old, but I am sure I will feel a lot older once my first kid is born; sometime the end of this month he should be coming out.


Then once he is in school they will all have these fancy toys, while I will be saying "Back in my day!!!" :p

Can't say I am that old, but I am sure I will feel a lot older once my first kid is born; sometime the end of this month he should be coming out.


Then once he is in school they will all have these fancy toys, while I will be saying "Back in my day!!!" :p

Oh, his generation will use smart boards (http://www.smart-boards.com/) instead of white boards and chalk boards (what you, gramps, used).

We used them to play pictionary when the teacher didn't feel like teaching us.

There were already a lot of things that I knew I didn't know and/or didn't understand about the U.S. education sector, and this thread has highlighted abother one... you guys get taught to drive at school?

What happened to the private sector? I'd have thought that driver training would be a shoo-in to be a completely seperate, free market business opportunity :O

Neither of them wrecked their cars, and it's been well over a year.

Tell me, why would they deserve that? I mean, sure, buying Nick Hogan a Supra was really fucking stupid, but what's wrong with buying your kid a nice car?

Because they're still young inexperience drivers who are going to have a few dings and scratches. Giving a kid a nice car like a Lexus or BMW is like giving a monkey a revolver with half the chambers filled.

There were already a lot of things that I knew I didn't know and/or didn't understand about the U.S. education sector, and this thread has highlighted abother one... you guys get taught to drive at school?

What happened to the private sector? I'd have thought that driver training would be a shoo-in to be a completely seperate, free market business opportunity :O

There are private companies that teach drivers ed, their programs are way better then the ones at public schools.

Editing Note: It used to be that the private companies cars for drivers ed were better, but now I am second guessing myself.

Because they're still young inexperience drivers who are going to have a few dings and scratches. Giving a kid a nice car like a Lexus or BMW is like giving a monkey a revolver with half the chambers filled.

Or not.

Believe it or not, there's quite a few responsible, safe, quality teen drivers. Just because you sucked at it doesn't mean every other kid will.

Because they're still young inexperience drivers who are going to have a few dings and scratches.

So what? If they can and are willing to pay for whatever damage is caused who are you to tell them how to spend their money?

Oh, his generation will use smart boards (http://www.smart-boards.com/) instead of white boards and chalk boards (what you, gramps, used).

We used them to play pictionary when the teacher didn't feel like teaching us.


I remember pictionary in school, but then again I remember playing dodgeball and tag during recess; which some schools have made illegal.

The only private school in this area is an Elementary one.

As mentioned already but I'm going to say it again because shutup that's why...there are private driving schools. In fact, I'd be surprised if your local public school still teaches driver's ed. The school I graduated from stopped teaching driver's ed not too long after I left (I learned in a no frills Taurus, or Tore-Ass. Merging on the freeway lesson was a test of nerves, and one of the only times you got to hear an instructor say, "Floor it.") and that was quite some time ago.

Further, Lexus' don't hold their value especially well. Especially older ones that are essentially dressed up and rebadged Camrys. Unless it was a new Lexus, the cost of the car probably wasn't much more than any other used car out there and then therefore a good investment for the school because, essentially being a dressy Toyota, it will be able to survive the rigors of rough use that comes from student drivers. If you insist on them driving junkers you insist on them spending dollar after dollar getting repairs done on the parts that weren't capable of taking the abuse that comes from a driver that doesn't yet know what they are doing.

Well it will be once the teen have an accident with the very expensive Lexus or BMW.

"Wow...so maybe giving you a brand new high end car for your first car wasn't such a good idea."

I cannot tell you how many times I've had accidents in my first car, and the parents who are stupid enough to give their teenagers a brand new car for their first car, deserve all the trouble that comes with it.

Maybe you're just not very good? I passed my test 4 1/2 years ago and I've never put a scratch on a car, never come close to an accident.

So what? If they can and are willing to pay for whatever damage is caused who are you to tell them how to spend their money?

Ok Neo, show me a teen who can afford to pay for the damage to a High End car like a Lexus or a BMW, and I'll show you a teen who probably deal drugs.

Maybe you're just not very good? I passed my test 4 1/2 years ago and I've never put a scratch on a car, never come close to an accident.

Your particular sparkling-clean record aside, there's a reason that insurance companies charge young drivers more, and it's not because they think young people have more money.

Also, you're young yet. Give yourself time. Your chances of being involved in a serious accident are just like everyone else's: pretty high.

Ok Neo, show me a teen who can afford to pay for the damage to a High End car like a Lexus or a BMW, and I'll show you a teen who probably deal drugs.

My buddy John in high school. Had a big ass paper route for as long as I knew him, was extraordinarily frugal with his money, began working as soon as he could and was frugal with that money as well. As a teenager his parents weren't charging him rent, so all the money he made went into his savings. He drove an older Audi and could have had any work done to it it would have needed. It never did, though, because he took excellent care of it.

Me, on the other hand, would slam my old Chevy around the abandoned mobile home park trying to teach myself Dukes of Hazzard stunts...

Ok Neo, show me a teen who can afford to pay for the damage to a High End car like a Lexus or a BMW, and I'll show you a teen who probably deal drugs.

I'm pretty sure if the parents are buying the car then the parents are the ones paying for it.

Or did you forget the topic of your own rant?

I'm pretty sure if the parents are buying the car then the parents are the ones paying for it.

Or did you forget the topic of your own rant?

I misread your post, my bad. I thought you were implying that if teens are able to pay for it...well yea.

I lost my glasses, sue me. :p

*realize that Neo is a lawyer, and runs*

But hey, if parents want to buy BMWs and Lexus for their teen, then more power to them. Just don't be surprised if the teen crashes it and you're stuck with a high bill.

I have seen the floor plans for new schools and they are getting flat screen plasma tvs in the HALLWAYS, there purpose is to display the school happenings.
Those tvs will (a)never be turned on and (b) be stolen/broken within the first year.

Our college came up with a new expensive building for no good reason and it has plasma tvs on the walls on the bottom floor. One is right in front of the doors going outside so you can't even watch it anyway and another is in the main area. Neither are ever on. Neither are any of the other tvs in any other building except the student center.

The thing that bothers me most about these kids driving high-end cars it that fact that many of them don't seem to really appreciate what they have. I learned to drive in a 1993 Subaru Loyale my dad bought for $400. It was actually a decent little car, except for the fact that it was slow as hell, and I appreciated having it.

Now I drive a BMW 750iL. :D

but what's wrong with buying your kid a nice car?
Maybe, spoiling their understanding that good stuff comes as a reward for good work?


Spoiled kids is cancer that's killing America - the country once built upon the desire to work and get results.

I don't think we even have drivers ed here in the UK. None of the local schools around here do. I learned with a private instructor in a Vauxhall Corsa. It was a good car. Too bad I can't afford the insurance to be a named driver on my dad's car, nor can I afford a car....or anything else for that matter...:(

Maybe, spoiling their understanding that good stuff comes as a reward for good work?


Spoiled kids is cancer that's killing America - the country once built upon the desire to work and get results.

I would say safe responsible driving is deserving of a reward.

...And of course a reward given *before* the accomplishment - giving a shiny new luxury SUV as the kid's first car.


What's worse, I think many of these rewardful dads bought these luxury cars using a credit rather than just their bank account. I mean, I understand when some sheikh doesn't let his kid drive a Mondeo, but...

Wouldn't it make more sense to learn how to drive in, oh, I dunno, the vehicle YOU WOULD USUALLY BE DRIVING?!

That's what I did.

The thing that bothers me most about these kids driving high-end cars it that fact that many of them don't seem to really appreciate what they have. I learned to drive in a 1993 Subaru Loyale my dad bought for $400. It was actually a decent little car, except for the fact that it was slow as hell, and I appreciated having it.


Wow! my first (and current) car! Family has had it since new, and except for the time my sister crashed into the house, it has worked fine!

However, it is starting to run pretty poor lately... seriously needs a service & new CV joints...

It is the type of car people should b e learning to drive! well built, but not a 'point and click' car. You learn the intricacies of it, such as how to change gears, whilst holding a cup of coffee, winding down the (manual) window and somehow avoiding hitting anything or burning your crotch with the coffee!

I have seen the floor plans for new schools and they are getting flat screen plasma tvs in the HALLWAYS, there purpose is to display the school happenings.

I wish I had a plama tv for my hallway.


Editing note: This was for a public school

Yeah my cousin's high school in South Carolina built a state of the art Olympic size in-door swimming pool with a high dive and like 150 students dropped out that year. Its tragic, they keep building amazing new things every year and their graduation rate is still horrible. And the State senate wants to increase public shcool spending. Soon I'll be sneaking into schools to use their computers cuz I can't afford my own because education tax is too high.

I learned on a lovely little Ford Ranger, I still love that truck even though it's been awhile. Good tough little pickup, good times man.

Once my nephew is about 12 or so I'm going to try and convince my brother that he should build his first car (which probably means VW of some kind, but perhaps hot rod). Partially because I don't know that my brother or his baby momma can afford a car outright and partially because I kind of wish that's what our dad had done. It would have taught us a great deal about the car so that if anything happened we'd know the thing inside and out, and would have probably given us a great deal more respect for the car (not that I didn't enjoy slamming around the abandoned mobile home park, I'm just sayin'...)

The idea would be to give him a project budget and then go over the things he's going to need to get the car together, from the initial chassis up through the drive train and interior. By the time he turns 16 he'll have a car that is completely his. Then fuck it, if he wants to sell it and buy a car assembled by someone else, that's up to him but at least he now knows what goes into a car. I don't assume that what he thinks is cool at 12 is going to be cool at 16, he might get to the end of the process and break his Uncle's heart by saying, "Fuck these air-cooled VWs. Christ what nonsense." Gotta let him do that.

I wish I had gone through that.

Wow! my first (and current) car! Family has had it since new, and except for the time my sister crashed into the house, it has worked fine!

However, it is starting to run pretty poor lately... seriously needs a service & new CV joints...

It is the type of car people should b e learning to drive! well built, but not a 'point and click' car. You learn the intricacies of it, such as how to change gears, whilst holding a cup of coffee, winding down the (manual) window and somehow avoiding hitting anything or burning your crotch with the coffee!

Mine was a manual too, but I had power windows. The left front turn signal would fill up with water every time it rained. Good times all around. :p

Once my nephew is about 12 or so I'm going to try and convince my brother that he should build his first car (which probably means VW of some kind, but perhaps hot rod). Partially because I don't know that my brother or his baby momma can afford a car outright and partially because I kind of wish that's what our dad had done. It would have taught us a great deal about the car so that if anything happened we'd know the thing inside and out, and would have probably given us a great deal more respect for the car (not that I didn't enjoy slamming around the abandoned mobile home park, I'm just sayin'...)

The idea would be to give him a project budget and then go over the things he's going to need to get the car together, from the initial chassis up through the drive train and interior. By the time he turns 16 he'll have a car that is completely his. Then fuck it, if he wants to sell it and buy a car assembled by someone else, that's up to him but at least he now knows what goes into a car. I don't assume that what he thinks is cool at 12 is going to be cool at 16, he might get to the end of the process and break his Uncle's heart by saying, "Fuck these air-cooled VWs. Christ what nonsense." Gotta let him do that.

I wish I had gone through that.

Man, what a cool idea.

And BTW, you can fix everything on a Beetle engine with a torque wrench and some JB-Weld. They are amazing cars.

Well it is probably safer than driving a 89 ford tempo.

And actually, higher end cars are (usually) easier to drive. Provided you don't get anything exotic. So its probably an easier way to learn if you can afford it. I really don't see the logic in putting a total beginner in something that is really difficult to drive.

And I speak from experience. I learnt to drive in a stick shift, and had a harder time than friends who learnt in an auto, and once they mastered the basics, went on to learn how to drive stick.

Those tvs will (a)never be turned on and (b) be stolen/broken within the first year.



An energy company donated two plasmas to my school, they are always on and have been around for a year (they have protective glass over them). Unfortunate that that was what my school received. they had made a deal with our school that if they could advertise (and other stuff, I don't know what the full deal was) at my school they'd sponsor the school. However, when teachers actually asked for things that they needed/wanted to teach they didn't get anything that was actually needed.

Basically, that while some of you are acting like schools are getting too much funding, they are not (at least where I am) the funding is just going to the wrong places.

Man, what a cool idea.

And BTW, you can fix everything on a Beetle engine with a torque wrench and some JB-Weld. They are amazing cars.

I drive a 67 VW Bus that I've literally fixed with a shoe string and spare key before.

So, last Tuesday, I was hanging out with my friend, we were going to my house from the golf course. Yea, we've been playing golf together. Anyways, on the way home, we see this Driver's Ed car, and it was...a Lexus! You'd think I'm kidding, but I'm not. Hell, when I was learning how to drive, it was in a beat up Ford from the 1990s. My friend also learned how to drive in a second hand beat up car. This was a brand new Lexus.

So, I turned to my friend and I said "You know, I'm going to stop paying the school taxes. If they can afford Lexus's, we're paying way too much." I mean comon, if I drove in a second hand beat up car, then I want children today to be in the same or similar car! Why should they get to miss out on the joy of having to pull on the side of the road because the back bumper fell off?

Of course my friend is like, "Ah let them drive the Lexus, because I guarantee you that their first car will be a junker." We both agree that if we ever got married and had a child, that he may learn to drive in a fancy car like a Lexus or a BMW, but the car we're going to give them will be a junker. Hey, it's either drive that or take the bus.

So, has anyone else noticed their public schools having some high end stuff? It doesn't has to be just cars, it can be other stuff that makes you scratch your head and say "How much are we giving the school?"

Of course it wouldn't occur to you that 1) it might be used and 2) it may actually belong to the driver's ed teacher or 3)it may have been donated. Nope, first thing to cross your mind is how DARE they have nice things.

Hell, let's take away the computers, they don't need them. And forget graphing calculators, t-squares and abacuses work just fine.

Hell, let's take away the computers, they don't need them. And forget graphing calculators, t-squares and abacuses work just fine.They work better! it is important that students know how to use a computer, but it is even more important that they understand the principles behind it and can use them should there ever be a zombie apocalypse and you can't use the computers!

So yes, people should learn how to drive in the hardest cars, and should learn the harder methods. you can adapt to an easier car/method but you can't adapt to a harder one.

Same thing, if there is a zombie apocalypse and all the automatic cars are eaten/destroyed/wasted, what good is it if they can't drive a manual? (or let's say a more likely situation is that there is an emergency, you are isolated, the only car is a manual but people only know how to drive an automatic.)

Well it will be once the teen have an accident with the very expensive Lexus or BMW.

"Wow...so maybe giving you a brand new high end car for your first car wasn't such a good idea."

I cannot tell you how many times I've had accidents in my first car, and the parents who are stupid enough to give their teenagers a brand new car for their first car, deserve all the trouble that comes with it.

Perhaps not every person is you, and perhaps they won't have many accidents.
Aesop has a tale... (http://www.pagebypagebooks.com/Aesop/Aesops_Fables/The_Dog_in_the_Manger_p1.html)

I don't think we even have drivers ed here in the UK. None of the local schools around here do. I learned with a private instructor in a Vauxhall Corsa. It was a good car. Too bad I can't afford the insurance to be a named driver on my dad's car, nor can I afford a car....or anything else for that matter...:(

Buy the cheapest thing with an MOT around, sign it up for the insurance company with a deal limiting you to the lowest possible mileage they offer, then sit it in a backstreet and build up a no claims bonus. Better in the long run.

I drive a 67 VW Bus that I've literally fixed with a shoe string and spare key before.

omg, as a fellow German car fan, I would like to ask you to post a picture of your bus. Please?

this is a little off topic but....

I drive a Mk 4 Golf. Nothing really interesting about it except that its the number one selling car in Europe, of all time.

Anyway, for my next car, I want to buy an old Mercedes and drop an electric motor in it. You can get 10 kilogram lithium ion cells off the internet for a reasonable price. I just need to find (or make) a controller and a large reductor gear that can handle heavy torque, although I could probably get away without a transmission.

Hell, let's take away the computers, they don't need them. And forget graphing calculators, t-squares and abacuses work just fine.

Actually, there is a lack of good draftsmen in the US.

omg, as a fellow German car fan, I would like to ask you to post a picture of your bus. Please?

this is a little off topic but....

I drive a Mk 4 Golf. Nothing really interesting about it except that its the number one selling car in Europe, of all time.

Anyway, for my next car, I want to buy an old Mercedes and drop an electric motor in it. You can get 10 kilogram lithium ion cells off the internet for a reasonable price. I just need to find (or make) a controller and a large reductor gear that can handle heavy torque, although I could probably get away without a transmission.

Tell ya what, check your TGs and you can see it in motion.

snip snip snippity snip

My own school hasn't been getting a lot of high-end stuff, just different programs and crap for computers that are worse than the ones they had before.

However, your experience reaffirms my belief that all American schools care about is appearances, rather than anyone's fucking education.





not that I'm going to get into that rant now, it's 11:20 pm and I don't feel like being angry :)

An energy company donated two plasmas to my school, they are always on and have been around for a year (they have protective glass over them). Unfortunate that that was what my school received. they had made a deal with our school that if they could advertise (and other stuff, I don't know what the full deal was) at my school they'd sponsor the school. However, when teachers actually asked for things that they needed/wanted to teach they didn't get anything that was actually needed.

Basically, that while some of you are acting like schools are getting too much funding, they are not (at least where I am) the funding is just going to the wrong places.

Very true. While some schools are obscenely underfunded, the rich schools don't give a damn about education, but appearances. Lexus for Driver's Ed= we look like a good school. All this new computer crap=We look like a good school. But how many people still give a damn about the students' education at the end of the day? nobody, because if they'ren ot learning, it's entirely their fault, the gubbermint is entirely responsible, and they go to a Good School (TM).

Wow! my first (and current) car! Family has had it since new, and except for the time my sister crashed into the house, it has worked fine!

However, it is starting to run pretty poor lately... seriously needs a service & new CV joints...

It is the type of car people should b e learning to drive! well built, but not a 'point and click' car. You learn the intricacies of it, such as how to change gears, whilst holding a cup of coffee, winding down the (manual) window and somehow avoiding hitting anything or burning your crotch with the coffee!

I'm getting my dad's old truck. 1999 Nissan, broken A/C, broken radio, absolute piece of crap, tough to steer.

While my parents drive a 2004 Camry and possibly a convertible, if they ever get around to buying a new car :mad:

Wouldn't it make more sense to learn how to drive in, oh, I dunno, the vehicle YOU WOULD USUALLY BE DRIVING?!

That's what I did.

Same here...

I'm getting my dad's old truck. 1999 Nissan, broken A/C, broken radio, absolute piece of crap, tough to steer.

After driving that car, you will always appreciate power steering.

I have friends, they go to the gym daily, they have uber big work out routines, they hop in my car, and try to turn the wheels and they just can't.

The fanciest thing my car has is electric mirrors (oh, and head lights that turn off when the car does)

Air con & heater = broken, clock=screwed, petrol gauge = completely off

But it's still the best car ever :)

I did however put in a CD player... Brisbane radio is just too terrible otherwise.

After driving that car, you will always appreciate power steering.

I have friends, they go to the gym daily, they have uber big work out routines, they hop in my car, and try to turn the wheels and they just can't.

The fanciest thing my car has is electric mirrors (oh, and head lights that turn off when the car does)

Air con & heater = broken, clock=screwed, petrol gauge = completely off

But it's still the best car ever :)

I did however put in a CD player... Brisbane radio is just too terrible otherwise.

haha, I don't really find it hard to steer, after all it's the truck I learned to drive in. However I do prefer my mom's Camry...

my dad however has promised to at least fix the AC and gt new tires,and clean it. But I have to Febreze the living hell out of it, I don't want to get searched at school because the vehicle I drive smells like cigarettes.

After driving that car, you will always appreciate power steering.

I have friends, they go to the gym daily, they have uber big work out routines, they hop in my car, and try to turn the wheels and they just can't.


I had a 1987 Nissan Navara ute, factory tires were 175R14LT I fitted a set of performance directional 205/55R15 98H tyres. on a truck with no power steering and a rack geared for much skinnier LT tyres the difference was astounding, some of my workmates tried driving it and never managed to get it to turn unless both hauled on the steering wheel :D

Mind you, they were both petite little chicks (hot babes too ;)) while I'm a burly bruiser :P

I was going to drop a 253 V8 in that beast to replace the tired 2.3 diesel, but had to sell up when I moved islands.