NationStates Jolt Archive

This made me laugh and think the world is completely screwed at the same time.

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/teachers-defend-dwi-shock-tactics/20080612163009990001?icid=100214839x1203928135x1200161813

OCEANSIDE, Calif. (June 12) - On a Monday morning last month, highway patrol officers visited 20 classrooms at El Camino High School to announce some horrible news: Several students had been killed in car wrecks over the weekend.

Classmates wept. Some became hysterical.

A few hours and many tears later, though, the pain turned to fury when the teenagers learned that it was all a hoax -- a scared-straight exercise designed by school officials to dramatize the consequences of drinking and driving.

As seniors prepare for graduation parties Friday, school officials in the largely prosperous San Diego suburb are defending themselves against allegations they went too far.

At school assemblies, some students held up posters that read: "Death is real. Don't play with our emotions."

So, do you think the school went too far with this shock tactic? Or do you think they did the right thing in instilling in these teens the dire consequences of drinking and driving?

It teaches the children a valuable lesson. Dont always believe what your teachers tell you.

That is incredibly disrespectful to the students and insensitive and potentially harmful to anyone who has had a loved one die through a car accident, it can stir up emotions of past deaths and..... that's too far I think, students deserve better than that.

The school's completely out of line. That's just an awful thing to do.

I am surprised that this has made it to the news this way, it has been going on in schools for a while, and when reported in the news reported on how beneficial it is to the kids, especially since many of the kids (and I know this personally because there are from my area and see them around the hang outs) do drag race and drink and drive and burn rubber, so it may help one or two of them.

No I don't think it went to far, because you can be sure getting some copper to come in stand in front of a group of students and talk about why it isn't wrong is going to help.

Sue the shits for any emotional damage they might have caused. Hell, are there grounds for criminal negligence charges? What if some one had committed suicide as a result of this?

This kind of manipulation through scare tactics is sick and reprehensible. I've seen this kind of garbage at my school, but never to this level. I am appalled and disgusted at this, and I will write to both the school district and local law enforcement if possible to voice my opinion that those involved should be fired, immediately and without exception.:mad: :upyours:

The ends do not justify the means, scumbags.:headbang:

It is only understandable if it is proven to work.
After all, a hoax is much nicer than the real thing.

This made me laugh and think the world is completely screwed at the same time.

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/teachers-defend-dwi-shock-tactics/20080612163009990001?icid=100214839x1203928135x1200161813



So, do you think the school went too far with this shock tactic? Or do you think they did the right thing in instilling in these teens the dire consequences of drinking and driving?

Anything to drill home the necessity of being responsible while drinking and the need for being alert while driving is OK with me.

we have similar things here, tho it's an actual staged crash, complete with wrecked cars and actors playing the victims.

Lets do that for everything.


"There are Terrorists entering the school, TAKE COVER AND LOCK THE DOORS!
...
...
"Just kidding."

That'll learn them right?

Lets do that for everything.



That'll learn them right?

We call them fire drills and are mandated by law.

We call them fire drills and are mandated by law.
While we're on the subject of fire drill. To make it more 'real' they should install smoke machines from now on. To be more "Real".

This made me laugh and think the world is completely screwed at the same time.

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/teachers-defend-dwi-shock-tactics/20080612163009990001?icid=100214839x1203928135x1200161813



So, do you think the school went too far with this shock tactic? Or do you think they did the right thing in instilling in these teens the dire consequences of drinking and driving?

We did this at our high school, but we knew before hand that it was only a dramatization. Nevertheless, when we assembled for a "funeral" for our classmates, who read letters to their parents, many of us cried.

No I don't think it went to far, because you can be sure getting some copper to come in stand in front of a group of students and talk about why it is wrong is going to help.

Can you? It's my understanding that the track record of "scared straight" programs like this is far from impressive.

While we're on the subject of fire drill. To make it more 'real' they should install smoke machines from now on. To be more "Real".

Why not then we can see how people react in real situations instead of knowing that the danger isn't real and doing their own thing.

Any school officials that would approve this have no idea whats its like to have friends and classmates killed and injured in car accidents. My school lost 4 people this Feburary in a school bus crash, with another 5 seriously injured. One is still in a wheelchair, the other two have very bad back injuries and may never play the sports they loved again.

That school has no idea whats it like for students, teachers, and the entire communnity.

Can you? It's my understanding that the track record of "scared straight" programs like this is far from impressive.

That's what I meant I left out the n't, fixed now.

While we're on the subject of fire drill. To make it more 'real' they should install smoke machines from now on. To be more "Real".

Technically, students aren't supposed to know if it's a drill or if there's actually a fire. If they do, something's gone wrong.

Technically, students aren't supposed to know if it's a drill or if there's actually a fire. If they do, something's gone wrong.

So we should burn parts of the school down every couple of months?

Technically, students aren't supposed to know if it's a drill or if there's actually a fire. If they do, something's gone wrong.

Yes technically, but it has been always easy, when they were done like clockwork, such ass the first Wednesday of every term at 11:45.

So, do you think the school went too far with this shock tactic? Or do you think they did the right thing in instilling in these teens the dire consequences of drinking and driving?

Reminds me of throwing fake blood as a vegetarian protest, or bombing abortion clinics... regardless of the validity (or lack thereof) of the message, this is NOT the way to send it.

It's like teaching your kid about the dangers of something by pretending to die. Your kid sobs miserably over your 'body' while you play dead, listening all the while. Then you miraculously come to life, teaching him that death is reversible, even though it's still horrible. And that's it's OK to deceive people.

The kid grows up to become every bit the asshole the parent is.

Reminds me of throwing fake blood as a vegetarian protest, or bombing abortion clinics... regardless of the validity (or lack thereof) of the message, this is NOT the way to send it.

It's like teaching your kid about the dangers of something by pretending to die. Your kid sobs miserably over your 'body' while you play dead, listening all the while. Then you miraculously come to life, teaching him that death is reversible, even though it's still horrible. And that's it's OK to deceive people.

The kid grows up to become every bit the asshole the parent is.

Personally, I prefer throwing throwing hamburgers at vegetarians. ;)

But your point is valid.

I substitute teach in a school district in northern Arkansas, and our high school did something similar. A few weeks before prom they set up a display in the school's front hall with pictures of "deceased" students and faux news accounts of their tragic deaths in drunk driving accidents. Each was accompanied with a prominently displayed "date of death" -- about 2-3 weeks in the future.

I think this approach was fairly effective, because the display was downright eerie. At the same time, one's eyes quickly found the dates and realized what was being shown. This, in conjunction with a "Save the Last Dance" rally (our own mock car crash, such as JuNii described) seem to have been quite effective, as this year's prom happily came and went without tragedy.

I don't agree with shock tactics like these, all it does is make student distrust the authoritative figures in the school. You got to have that trust, you just gotta.

I once stole a lollipop from a shop, and my father caught me. He drove me to the police station and handed me in for theft. The police must have caught on pretty quick because they were entirely serious and laid out the punishment I was going to receive and even took me to a holding cell.

Damn well worked.

Sue the shits for any emotional damage they might have caused. Hell, are there grounds for criminal negligence charges? What if some one had committed suicide as a result of this?

This kind of manipulation through scare tactics is sick and reprehensible. I've seen this kind of garbage at my school, but never to this level. I am appalled and disgusted at this, and I will write to both the school district and local law enforcement if possible to voice my opinion that those involved should be fired, immediately and without exception.:mad: :upyours:

The ends do not justify the means, scumbags.:headbang:
Yes great idea, sue the school penniless so that local taxes have to be raised to be able to fund the school again, great point. And criminal negligence, are you out of your fucking mind? Fired without exception, are you suggestion the entire staff be dismissed? Do you realize teachers are quite hard to come by these days and certainly don't need to be dismissed for something like this.

This made me laugh and think the world is completely screwed at the same time.

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/teachers-defend-dwi-shock-tactics/20080612163009990001?icid=100214839x1203928135x1200161813



So, do you think the school went too far with this shock tactic? Or do you think they did the right thing in instilling in these teens the dire consequences of drinking and driving?

Hell yes, they went too far. That's the most irresponsible thing I can think of. It's emotional abuse.

We call them fire drills and are mandated by law.

Be glad you all are too young to remember Shelter Drills. That's when they took you to interior hallways to train you to survive nuclear bomb attacks.

The sad part is it's NOT a joke.

Yes technically, but it has been always easy, when they were done like clockwork, such ass the first Wednesday of every term at 11:45.

Not in my school. They don't even tell us (the faculty) until about ten minutes before it's going to happen.

Pisses me off when my test's interrupted.

Death is a laughing matter but no end justifies the means of lying. Except money, sex, and the promise of violence without consequense.

If you're enough of an idiot to drive while drunk, your death is darwinian karma. You have it coming, you idiot. Unfortunately, all too often we see the drunk driver survive and an innocent bystander die. This is why drunk driving is illegal - It's negligent endangerment of others. Everyone is aware of this, but people of all ages still drink and drive.

Scare tactics are an insensitive method, and could have unintended consequences, but it may be the only way to get through to the dumbshits who can't think about anything except their next drunken party. I still think it was unwarranted, though. The risks outweigh the benefits, and the dumbshits will only remember that the "pigs" lied to them.

I don't agree with shock tactics like these, all it does is make student distrust the authoritative figures in the school.

A valuable lesson that one.

It teaches the children a valuable lesson. Dont always believe what your teachers tell you.

Indeed, a healthy distrust of authority.

Hell yes, they went too far. That's the most irresponsible thing I can think of. It's emotional abuse.

I thought the same after reading the article. I mean, preparing kids for emergencies is ok, teaching them the consequences of taking bad decisions is fine too, but what this school did went overboard. The abuse these children were sunjugated could very well do more harm than good. It's sad.

This made me laugh and think the world is completely screwed at the same time.

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/teachers-defend-dwi-shock-tactics/20080612163009990001?icid=100214839x1203928135x1200161813



So, do you think the school went too far with this shock tactic? Or do you think they did the right thing in instilling in these teens the dire consequences of drinking and driving?


I think this is the most ridculous thing I have read in a long time. When I was in high school we had a car load of classmates killed one morning on the way to school. (Not from drinking.) It devestated all of us. For someone to think this is a learning tool, I can only say they have never been there when such news of peer deaths is real.

I can only think of truly ugly names to call the stupid son of a bitches that thought this was a 'good' thing. <there I said the uglies> :mad:

We had fake threats and fake accidents all the time during the training, I don't see what's wrong with it.

That it's applied to schoolboys? Well... I agree the form is pretty insensitive. What's worse, they were wrong in inventing fake accidents - they ought to tell about real ones. Because every weekend, there are dozens of real ones. Sacrifice the impact of "from our school", but don't get the penalty of being outed as a fake.

This made me laugh and think the world is completely screwed at the same time.

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/teachers-defend-dwi-shock-tactics/20080612163009990001?icid=100214839x1203928135x1200161813



So, do you think the school went too far with this shock tactic? Or do you think they did the right thing in instilling in these teens the dire consequences of drinking and driving?

The sure as hell did the right thing. Kudos to them and fuck the parents who think this went to far.

While we're on the subject of fire drill. To make it more 'real' they should install smoke machines from now on. To be more "Real".

That may not be such a bad idea. :)

While we're on the subject of fire drill. To make it more 'real' they should install smoke machines from now on. To be more "Real".

I had one of those at university and it failed miserably: the floor below the one I was on was filled with smoke, but no alarms went off and we didn't know anything till one of us had to go downstairs for something or another...now that was scary.

I once stole a lollipop from a shop, and my father caught me. He drove me to the police station and handed me in for theft. The police must have caught on pretty quick because they were entirely serious and laid out the punishment I was going to receive and even took me to a holding cell.

Damn well worked.

My mother did that to me for a much more serious offense but the police couldn't take me to a jail for safety reasons.

We had fake threats and fake accidents all the time during the training

1) training for what?

2) did you know they were fake, or did someone tell you one morning "by the way, your best friend died in a car accident"?

I had one of those at university and it failed miserably: the floor below the one I was on was filled with smoke, but no alarms went off and we didn't know anything till one of us had to go downstairs for something or another...now that was scary.

Now you know that in a real fire, alarms don't always work - or don't always work in time. Be aware of what happens around you.

1) training for what? Navy.


2) did you know they were fake, or did someone tell you one morning "by the way, your best friend died in a car accident"?
Often, we didn't know what happened was fake. Especially as real problems happened once in a while as well.


As I've said, this time the mistake was using fake accidents, when they could find real ones. But there's nothing wrong with the tactic per se.

Navy.

A bit different, I think, given you were an adult and willingly signed on for that.


As I've said, this time the mistake was using fake accidents, when they could find real ones. But there's nothing wrong with the tactic per se.

Again, there's a difference, I think, between a fake "there's been an accident and vague, undefined people died" and "there's been an accident, and your best friend John is dead."

The only thing that I find a bit off with this particular event is that they used the names of actual students in the school(although why they did that is understandable) this was meant to show the students that there are real consiquences to their actions and the point of the lie was to cut through their youthful rebellious tendancies and invincibility complex. It worked...and yes finding out that you can die while still in highschool is pretty traumatizing. But it is a part of life, are all of you suggesting that our precious children never learn how to handle the abuses and traumas of the real world? What will happen to them when they have no safety net?

Again, there's a difference, I think, between a fake "there's been an accident and vague, undefined people died" and "there's been an accident, and your best friend John is dead."

Yes, in the first case it is hardly as real as the second. especially to a highschooler.
Its not like they did this to a classroom of eight year olds.

But it is a part of life, are all of you suggesting that our precious children never learn how to handle the abuses and traumas of the real world? What will happen to them when they have no safety net?

Well let's talk about how things would work in the "real world".

If out here in the "real world" my boss showed up one day and informed me he just got word that my wife/girlfriend/parent/child had just died in a fire, and then, after a few minutes of me frantically scrambling, told me "hah, just kidding, now you know, fire is bad!"

Well my first instinct would be to punch him in the face

My SECOND instinct however would be to sue the fuck out of him

So I think the kids who are raising their concerns about this tactic are behaving in a very adult way.

So now what happens when they do need to deliver a message to the students about a serious event? Who's going to believe them?

ah, but that is another case entirely. An employer hires you to perform a job or task for them, in return they pay you. That is the relationship, they may make commentary on what they view as important but have no right to decide that 'fire' in this case is so bad for you that they ought to shock some sense into you. (unless you are an arsonist pyro in which case the employer should have gone to the police)
A school on the other hand is a public institution used to generate a common knowledge base and socialize the young in a society. If that society decides that drunk driving is wrong (quite rightly) then it is the place of that institution to inform the children about that.
Unfortunately handing out informitive sheets and holding seminars feel bad seminars does not work well with the people who are still drunk driving. Aside from the use of actual student names within the school I see nothing wrong with trying to bring the message home that this is something that can happen to you, even if you werent the one drinking.

So now what happens when they do need to deliver a message to the students about a serious event? Who's going to believe them?

When will the school and police be delivering a message about a serious event that the students cannot later verify with legitimate news sources?
In fact, in the case that spawned this thread there was no moment of "Just Kidding" as far as I could tell from the article the students were quickly able to tell that their fellow 'deceaced' students were still amongst the living.

So now what happens when they do need to deliver a message to the students about a serious event? Who's going to believe them?


Exactly.

Who doesn't understand and appreciate the value of the lesson in the story of the boy who cried wolf?

If we are working to raise kids to be honest responsible adults a long look at the adults who thought this was a good idea pretty much defeats anything point they thought they could possibly make.

The only thing that I find a bit off with this particular event is that they used the names of actual students in the school(although why they did that is understandable) this was meant to show the students that there are real consiquences to their actions and the point of the lie was to cut through their youthful rebellious tendancies and invincibility complex. It worked...and yes finding out that you can die while still in highschool is pretty traumatizing. But it is a part of life, are all of you suggesting that our precious children never learn how to handle the abuses and traumas of the real world? What will happen to them when they have no safety net?

So the fact that these students will experience tragedies in their lives allows us to subject them to those tragedies? I think not.

Imagine a murderer talking to police after killing a wife, and he says to the cop, "No, seriously, it's okay."

"Why is that?" asks the cop through gritted teeth.

"Well, a friend of mine was going to burn their house down and kill his kids later. I figured, since he was going to experience the tragedy of having his loved ones murdered anyway, I might as well prepare him for it."

I'm not sure about you, but I don't think this is a viable justification. ;)

The school has no right to do this. It's not effective against the actual drunk drivers, who don't give a shit.

The most effective measure is heavy fines and long jail sentences. Underage drinking should have a sentence of either juvenile detention until age 18 (in the case of those under 18) or a 6-month to 1 year jail sentence (in the case of those over 18) for the first offense. DUI/DWI should carry a jail sentence of at least 3 years for the first offense. Manslaughter while DWI should receive a life-in-prison sentence.

While we're on the subject of fire drill. To make it more 'real' they should install smoke machines from now on. To be more "Real".

Given that the average fire drill is little more than a joke to the average high school student, you may have a point.

As for the OP situation, I'm going to draw fire, but I think it was an excellent idea, poorly executed. I'm a bit amused by the "don't mess with our emotions" crowd. The only thing that gets a teenager's attention anymore is drama. Well, they got it. It was poorly executed because it was probably seamless. I like the idea of the pre-prom exercise JuNii mentioned with the dates of death 2-3 weeks into the future. That would have been much better. They could even have done that live instead of with a display. The cops could have come in and done their legitimate bit with announcing the deaths and then added the time/date of death to alleviate the sensitive and alert the intelligent (the morons would have to have a more detailed explanation, but I'm sure that could be handled).

Once again: great idea, badly handled. It's a difficult tightrope to walk when students today are more savvy and cynical and connected than ever. You can't just tell a kid that "X is bad", and while you don't want them finding out the hard (and often fatal) way, you can't go all the way into utter emotional whiplash, either. There is little space for a truly effective middle ground between manipulation and lecturing. This school district missed that target by a bit toward the manipulation side. But honestly, has anyone ever really been swayed by the milder campaigns and the lectures? Not really or not many.

Remember the parody of "hip" anti-smoking campaigns that South Park (http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/75396) lampooned so expertly? True, that was aimed at an elementary school (of cartoon students), but I remember similar presentations about drugs (DARE, anyone?) and the appallingly schlocky "Friday Night Live" drunk driving awareness program. I say "schlocky" and that was 20 years ago.

I do think this school went too far -- but not by all that much.

I dont find that it is exactly like justifying that murder, especially as this is a point case scenario in itself and has nothing to do with murder.
I also dont think that extrenuous jail time is the answer , most legal systems are already backlogged and the amarican jail system itself is notorious for being over crowded.
While I see valid points in PelacanusQuicks argument for truth(It would be fantastic if all the authourity figures always told the truth....especially politicians). I think that there is a diffrence in this case, not that it is better or ideal to lie and make this scenario, but that it is effective at what it is meant to do, bring to the forefront of the students minds that this can happen to them even in nowhereville, USA. It makes them think and yes it does scare and/or upset them, but not to the point where I find it reprehensable.

Underage drinking should have a sentence of either juvenile detention until age 18 (in the case of those under 18)

Why? who have they hurt by drinking? All that that is going to do is ruin lives, no one will gain. The vast majority of teenagers who drink do it separate from driving, that would be useless or harmful legislation.


I'm a bit amused by the "don't mess with our emotions" crowd. The only thing that gets a teenager's attention anymore is drama.

...You can't just tell a kid that "X is bad", and while you don't want them finding out the hard (and often fatal) way, you can't go all the way into utter emotional whiplash, either. There is little space for a truly effective middle ground between manipulation and lecturing. This school district missed that target by a bit toward the manipulation side. But honestly, has anyone ever really been swayed by the milder campaigns and the lectures? Not really or not many.

At my school for at least the past three years there have been no deaths from drinking and driving. For at least the past four there have been none of grad night (essentially Canadian students week long party because we don't have prom) and nothing like this has ever been done at our school. So clearly, despite stereotypes other, less drastic methods will get through to us.

I know that when I heard of the death of a classmate (suicide) I went home and threw up, and others had a far worse reaction than me. It's not fair or respectful to do that and despite what others think of us we deserve respect.

I'm frankly disturbed by how many people seem to think this was a good idea. your inflicting emotional distress, setting the example that lying is ok, and ensuring that next time these kids are warned about the dangers of a certain type of behavior, they may very well dismiss the warning as more lies from the teachers.

I once had a teacher who told his class that smoking was as bad as Meth. All he did with that little lie/delusion was make Meth seem more acceptable by comparison. Don't get me wrong, he was a nice guy, but just for that I would question weather he should be a teacher.

And yes, I'm aware good teachers are hard to find. Unfortunately these dirtbags are not good teachers, and I sure as hell wouldn't want them teaching my kids. I'm still leaning towards the opinion that they should be fired, or at least severly reprimanded.