NationStates Jolt Archive

Serously Americans,do yourselves a favour and restore Clinton to his rightful place.It was about the only time when the rest of the world had a degree of respect and fear for the USA.Obama is good too.

As a person of mainly Asian extract(mixed Chinese,Indian and Portugese),it's good to see a biracial person vying for power.

Seriously,we like the values America used to represent.I like how your country represents a degree of civil rights,opportunity and socioeconomic mobility,represented in your pop culture.

For example,Christina Aguilera is a canny businesswoman,as is Tila Tequila with her online business strategy and marketing of herself.They made themselves who they are through hard word.

You can do that in any country,but its just easier in America.If you have the talent and put in the hard work,you can make it.Certainly,your tertiary education is top class,though your high schools seem to be damn problematic,as are your gun control laws.

I won't pretend to understand your politics,because they elude me.For example,how can a man lose the popular vote like Bush but win via electoral college in 2000?Similarly the politics of my country would elude you.

You're dynamic and we like the values that you can represent.We like Coca-Cola,Pepsi and Obama (thought your Mcdonalds fast food is shit). We like many of your technological ideas (though Japanese and Korean animation as well as engineering products in Germany,Japan,Taiwan,China and Singapore are generally better.Some of your Hollywood stuff is watchable).

We like the images of sexy women wearing nothing but tiny pieces of cloth adorning our posters and magazins(Maxim,Playboy,Hustler,FHM,Sports Illustrated,Victoria Secret's,etc).

What we don't like is the seeming ignorace and one-sided support for a country that,though deserves every right to exist,doesn't have the right to oppress its other people, the Palestinians.

There's no easy solution to it,but only with American power and some imagination can it be resolved in the long term.

So do the right choice and get rid of your stupid Warlord Bush.Stop letting your idiot religious right influence your policies with regard to other countries and stop screwing your allies over with your overly self-interested policies.

We like your products,we like aspects of your culture and all of that,we like your MTV,but please...stop sending your soldiers to kill us.Because we'll kill them.And we don't really want to in the first place.

An anonymous poster called Orion Ascendant,from Singapore, whom nobody knows in real life and who is just expressing an opinion about Americans,to Americans,on a British-hosted forum,in an online community found by an Australian,maintained by Russian and Indian software programmers,on hardware manufactured in China,powered by mircroprocessors produced in Singapore and Taiwan.

Yes, well, he's had his two terms in office already, so that's quite impossible.
Likewise, Bush is out of here in November.

Has your government stopped caning people for dropping gum on the streets yet?

Serously Americans,do yourselves a favour and restore Clinton to his rightful place.It was about the only time when the rest of the world had a degree of respect and fear for the USA.Obama is good too.
you know Clinton said he thought there were WMD's in Iraq during his presidency and that maybe he got them during his bombing missions.
that pretty much threw the 2004 election the democrats as they couldn't use missing WMDs in Iraq slogan anymore.

As a person of mainly Asian extract(mixed Chinese,Indian and Portugese),it's good to see a biracial person vying for power.

off topic How does that affect your housing quota in Singapore? do they count you as Chinese, or as Indian or what ???

Seriously,we like the values America used to represent.I like how your country represents a degree of civil rights,opportunity and socioeconomic mobility,represented in your pop culture.

For example,Christina Aguilera is a canny businesswoman,as is Tila Tequila with her online business strategy and marketing of herself.They made themselves who they are through hard word.

You can do that in any country,but its just easier in America.If you have the talent and put in the hard work,you can make it.Certainly,your tertiary education is top class,though your high schools seem to be damn problematic,as are your gun control laws.

high school education needs to be fixed. School choice is my favored avenue of approach. though thats really a domestic issue and I always wonder why people in other countries worry about our high school education system.

I won't pretend to understand your politics,because they elude me.For example,how can a man lose the popular vote like Bush but win via electoral college in 2000?Similarly the politics of my country would elude you.

the easiest way to think about it is to think that the election is about the individual states picking the pres. the electoral college was set up to balance the voting power of large and small states.

You're dynamic and we like the values that you can represent.We like Coca-Cola,Pepsi and Obama (thought your Mcdonalds fast food is shit). We like many of your technological ideas (though Japanese and Korean animation as well as engineering products in Germany,Japan,Taiwan,China and Singapore are generally better.Some of your Hollywood stuff is watchable).

You might hate McDonald's but I bet they are on every corner in your country. thus far every country I go to has tons of McDonald's.
Unless your counting Korean contracting of the Simpsons korean Animation is not that great. However the Korean movie industry rules. thus far they produce better special effects then anything I have seen in Europe or Hong Kong. For special effects Korea seems second only to Hollywood (not getting into scripts and plots as those are subjective)

We like the images of sexy women wearing nothing but tiny pieces of cloth adorning our posters and magazins(Maxim,Playboy,Hustler,FHM,Sports Illustrated,Victoria Secret's,etc).

What we don't like is the seeming ignorace and one-sided support for a country that,though deserves every right to exist,doesn't have the right to oppress its other people, the Palestinians.

As I have seen that we have been the ones who have yanked their chain and stopped them.

There's no easy solution to it,but only with American power and some imagination can it be resolved in the long term.

There will likely still be people fighting over that land when America is but a memory.

So do the right choice and get rid of your stupid Warlord Bush.Stop letting your idiot religious right influence your policies with regard to other countries and stop screwing your allies over with your overly self-interested policies.

Bush like him or not is a democratically elected leader. The only cause for concern is if he refuses to step down after his term is up. Yes we have drug some our allies into Iraq. But at the same time I remember Europe dragging us into to Bosnia.

We like your products,we like aspects of your culture and all of that,we like your MTV,but please...stop sending your soldiers to kill us.Because we'll kill them.And we don't really want to in the first place.

I don't recall sending any soldiers to Singapore. though I do think we have an agreement with your goverment to come to your aid if Malaysia tries to take over. I think China was involved in that agreement too.

An anonymous poster called Orion Ascendant,from Singapore, whom nobody knows in real life and who is just expressing an opinion about Americans,to Americans,on a British-hosted forum,in an online community found by an Australian,maintained by Russian and Indian software programmers,on hardware manufactured in China,powered by mircroprocessors produced in Singapore and Taiwan.

Hey I know you all have this like jingle that your government comes up with where can I find it?

Yes, well, he's had his two terms in office already, so that's quite impossible.
Likewise, Bush is out of here in November.

Has your government stopped caning people for dropping gum on the streets yet?

you should see what happens if you get caught pissing in an elevator.

Yes, well, he's had his two terms in office already, so that's quite impossible.
Likewise, Bush is out of here in November.

Jan. actually :D

you should see what happens if you get caught pissing in an elevator.

It goes to the basement for a reason. *nods*

Has your government stopped caning people for dropping gum on the streets yet?

I always thought that particular law was rather good.

I always thought that particular law was rather good.

Only if you're the caner, and not the canee.

America's standing in the world began to decline during the 80s with Iran Contra. It seems that we lose repsect when we let major multinational corporations decide our foreign policy for us. Nope that never sits well with our friends in Europe. Can't blame them either. We the American people need to take our government back from the moneyed special interests and thier lobby. Then the world will respect us again, after we give Iraq back to the Iraqis and stop bullying those with whom we disagree .

Obama knows the power of diplomacy and what it can accomplish. He will change buisness as usual in washington and help bring the world back together with us. He is the last best hope for America, and with him We will be the last best hope for humanity.

Yes we can heal this nation.

Yes we can repair this world.

Yes we can.

We know the battle ahead will be long, but always remember that no matter what obstacles stand in our way, nothing can stand in the way of the power of millions of voices calling for change.

We have been told we cannot do this by a chorus of cynics...they will only grow louder and more dissonant ........... We've been asked to pause for a reality check. We've been warned against offering the people of this nation false hope.

But in the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope.

Please do not pity us. We are doing quite fine actually.

The US has a long history of being the object of envy and hate. That is what happens to those who are winners. As usual the losers ultimately blame the winner for being the best instead of looking internally to find the reasons they are losers. Such is life.

For those of us who have attention spans and long memories, obviously not most of the posters here, the US was ridiculed and hated long before Bush and the Iraq War. To say that we have lost our good name and goodwill in the world is a lie.

Most other countries, unless they are allies of the US, get a free pass on oppression, corruption, terrorism, and downright genocide. If that is the goodwill we are wishing us to capture then you can take that goodwill and stick it.

It goes to the basement for a reason. *nods*

In Singapore the penalty is very harsh and is in public. and the elevators have sensors built in so if they detect urine they lock you in until police come.

Obama knows the power of diplomacy and what it can accomplish. He will change buisness as usual in washington and help bring the world back together with us. He is the last best hope for America, and with him We will be the last best hope for humanity.

HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

Sorry about that. The whole Messiah Obama thing always gets me laughing. I am sure a dirty, opportunistic, inexperienced, leftist politician is going to "heal our souls" as his wife says.

He will "bring the world back together with us"? When was "the world" with us? Truly Obama's cult is worse than most religions.

you should see what happens if you get caught pissing in an elevator.

fuckin' good job too, filthy lift pissers.:mad:

The US has a long history of being the object of envy and hate. That is what happens to those who are winners. As usual the losers ultimately blame the winner for being the best instead of looking internally to find the reasons they are losers. Such is life.

Go back to France, you Frog!

Ah yes. The signs of summer...the smell of fresh-cut trolls, the anti-Americans coming in to full bloom, and look over there! A baby neo-nazi taking its first steps. Yes, this is a glorious time of year here on NSG.



Oh, an actual response? No, I don't have one of those any more than the OP had a point.

Ah yes. The signs of summer...the smell of fresh-cut trolls, the anti-Americans coming in to full bloom, and look over there! A baby neo-nazi taking its first steps. Yes, this is a glorious time of year here on NSG.



Oh, an actual response? No, I don't have one of those any more than the OP had a point.


*sigh* appearently Sarky needs a nap.

Yes, well, he's had his two terms in office already, so that's quite impossible.
Likewise, Bush is out of here in November.

Has your government stopped caning people for dropping gum on the streets yet?

Dubya leaving office is like an amputation or cancer surgery. The source of the infection might be gone, but the damage has been done and it's all too often gaping.

Ah yes. The signs of summer...the smell of fresh-cut trolls, the anti-Americans coming in to full bloom, and look over there! A baby neo-nazi taking its first steps. Yes, this is a glorious time of year here on NSG.



Oh, an actual response? No, I don't have one of those any more than the OP had a point.

**applause**

you know Clinton said he thought there were WMD's in Iraq during his presidency and that maybe he got them during his bombing missions.
that pretty much threw the 2004 election the democrats as they couldn't use missing WMDs in Iraq slogan anymore.

Kerry lost in 2004 because he orignally voted for the Iraq war in 2003 (when Bush's big lie had us all convinced) then when he voted against it later (the right thing to do) he was labled a "Flip Flopper"

Kerry lost in 2004 because he orignally voted for the Iraq war in 2003 (when Bush's big lie had us all convinced) then when he voted against it later (the right thing to do) he was labled a "Flip Flopper"

Stop the "Bush lied(!)" crap. That itself is a lie.

Stop the "Bush lied(!)" crap. That itself is a lie.

The Iraq war was about getting defense contracts signed! Nothing else!

http://www.militaryindustrialcomplex.com

Kerry lost in 2004 because he orignally voted for the Iraq war in 2003 (when Bush's big lie had us all convinced) then when he voted against it later (the right thing to do) he was labled a "Flip Flopper"

He voted for funding the troops before he voted against it. That's what got him labeled.

He voted for funding the troops before he voted against it. That's what got him labeled.

Tomato - Tomahto. He saw scam and voted against it!

Wrong. He voted for the war in 2003. If he saw a scam, he wouldn't have voted for it to begin with.

No one saw scam in 2003. Bush said WMDs so in we went!

Tomato - Tomahto. He saw scam and voted against it!

Wrong. He voted for the war in 2003. If he saw a scam, he wouldn't have voted for it to begin with.

No one saw scam in 2003. Bush said WMDs so in we went!

Go back and check the comments from politicians.

Go back and check the comments from politicians.

Would you care to point out what comments you are refering to? (so I don't have to dig through every comment made on the hill and have a birthday before I'm done)

we like the values America used to represent

Slavery, segregation, discrimination, inequality, puritanism, censorship? No, no "we" don't.

The Iraq war was about getting defense contracts signed! Nothing else!

http://www.militaryindustrialcomplex.com

Nice site. A completely impartial review of the Evil Military/Industrial Complex. Feel free to throw in the obligatory evil laughter after you read the second sentence.

I see you are not into reality so I will leave it at that.

Nice site. A completely impartial review of the Evil Military/Industrial Complex. Feel free to throw in the obligatory evil laughter after you read the second sentence.

I see you are not into reality so I will leave it at that.

This is reality:
http://http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html

"Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together."
Dwight D. Eisenhower (Fairwell speech of 1961)

Would you care to point out what comments you are refering to? (so I don't have to dig through every comment made on the hill and have a birthday before I'm done)

How about these:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

WMDs, by the way, were only a small part of our reasons to enter Iraq. No matter how many times a lie is repeated it remains a lie.

How about these:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

WMDs, by the way, were only a small part of our reasons to enter Iraq. No matter how many times a lie is repeated it remains a lie.

And sometime around 2004, it became obvoius that there never were any WMDs in Iraq. The only ones they ever have were the ones we sold to them in the 80s to use against their enemies. We still have the recipts.

And sometime around 2004, it became obvoius that there never were any WMDs in Iraq. The only ones they ever have were the ones we sold to them in the 80s to use against their enemies. We still have the recipts.

Ummm... we sold them a small amount of precursors (which would never be enough to account for the mustard and sarin they had on hand, which was locally produced). We also sold them biological samples from university collections (once again, not "weapons").

They used mustard and nerve agents wholesale against Iranian human wave attacks, and on Kurds in Iraq. Nothing we sold them was "weaponized" or in the form of a weapon.

Ummm... we sold them a small amount of precursors (which would never be enough to account for the mustard and sarin they had on hand, which was locally produced). We also sold them biological samples from university collections (once again, not "weapons").

They used mustard and nerve agents wholesale against Iranian human wave attacks, and on Kurds in Iraq. Nothing we sold them was "weaponized" or in the form of a weapon.

Why the need to sell them anything if they were actually the masters of mass destruction weaponry, as Bush had us believing in 2003. They didn't have WMDs in 2003. We didn't know it but Bush & Cheney did. The fact that they didn't have any is pretty much proven by the fact that none have been used in the 5 year plus long war.

Why the need to sell them anything if they were actually the masters of mass destruction weaponry, as Bush had us believing in 2003. They didn't have WMDs in 2003. We didn't know it but Bush & Cheney did. The fact that they didn't have any is pretty much proven by the fact that none have been used in the 5 year plus long war.

They had then from the 1980s on until the late 1990s, and used them quite a bit.

They were interested in samples, which is what they bought.

Until 9/11, you could, as a uni student, buy biological samples of plague, etc, with few questions asked. That's the kind of thing they bough.

Serously Americans,do yourselves a favour and restore Clinton to his rightful place.It was about the only time when the rest of the world had a degree of respect and fear for the USA.Obama is good too.

As a person of mainly Asian extract(mixed Chinese,Indian and Portugese),it's good to see a biracial person vying for power.
<SNIP>

Americans should vote for a candidate based on their race?

FAIL, already.

They had then from the 1980s on until the late 1990s, and used them quite a bit.

They were interested in samples, which is what they bought.

Until 9/11, you could, as a uni student, buy biological samples of plague, etc, with few questions asked. That's the kind of thing they bough.

You are saying Iraq used WMDs, in the 90s?

Yes, well, he's had his two terms in office already, so that's quite impossible.
Likewise, Bush is out of here in November.

Has your government stopped caning people for dropping gum on the streets yet?

We never caned anyone for dropping gum in the streets.The Western media paints a very funny picture of us. ;)

oh well.

We do cane people for graffiti,vandalism,molestation and rape though.But definitely not for dropping um in the streets.And its actually legal to buy one.Seriously, the police don't give a shit if they see you throwing gum around.

Since the OP is a distant memory, let's talk about how the Iranian nuclear weapons program got started.

Let's talk about how Iran became an Evil state, a Rogue state which cannot be trusted with nuclear weapons.

Let's talk about the golden age of Freedom in Iran, the rule of the Shah.

:rolleyes:

Since the OP is a distant memory, let's talk about how the Iranian nuclear weapons program got started.

Let's talk about how Iran became an Evil state, a Rogue state which cannot be trusted with nuclear weapons.

Let's talk about the golden age of Freedom in Iran, the rule of the Shah.

:rolleyes:

A lot a different factors when war is brought up. Pretty much all that has been said and the ones you mentioned could be concidered in a thread titled "Pity about America's foreign standing"

Do you, Dragontide, take this *cough, splutter* to be your lawful wedded *hack, gasp, spasms*, to heave and to hurl, to ...

no fuck this. You and Hotwife are married. Get the fuck out of my church.

Do you, Dragontide, take this *cough, splutter* to be your lawful wedded *hack, gasp, spasms*, to heave and to hurl, to ...

no fuck this. You and Hotwife are married. Get the fuck out of my church.

IM MARRIED??? OH SHIT!!!:eek: Hope she likes football! :D

You are saying Iraq used WMDs, in the 90s?

Unfamiliar with history?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Iraq_War

Iraq's chemical weapons program was mainly assisted by German companies such as Karl Kobe, which built a chemical weapons facility disguised as a pesticide plant. Iraq’s foreign contractors, including Karl Kolb with Massar for reinforcement, built five large research laboratories, an administrative building, eight large underground bunkers for the storage of chemical munitions, and the first production buildings. 150 tons of mustard were produced in 1983. About 60 tons of Tabun were produced in 1984. Pilot-scale production of Sarin began in 1984. Germany also supplied reactors, heat exchangers, condensers and vessels. France, Austria, Canada, and Spain provided similar equipment.

The Al Haddad trading company of Tennessee delivered 60 tons of DMMP, a chemical used to make sarin, a nerve gas implicated in the Gulf War Syndrome. The Al Haddad trading company appears to have been an Iraqi front company. The firm was owned by Sahib Abd al-Amir al-Haddad, an Iraqi-born, naturalized American citizen. Recent stories in The New York Times and The Tennessean reported that al-Haddad was arrested in Bulgaria in November 2002 while trying to arrange an arms sale to Iraq. Al-Haddad was charged with conspiring to purchase equipment for the manufacture of a giant Iraqi cannon, a design based on the Canadian HARP program. In 1984, U.S. Customs at New York's Kennedy Airport stopped an order addressed to the Iraqi State Enterprise for Pesticide Production for 74 drums of potassium fluoride, a dual-use chemical used in the production of Sarin. The order was placed by Al-Haddad Enterprises Incorporates, owned by an individual named Sahib al-Haddad.[59]

The U.S. firm Alcolac International supplied one dual-use mustard-gas precursor, thiodiglycol, to Iraq & Iran in violation of U.S. export laws but the U.S. Justice Department for illegal exports indicted the company in 1988 only for its illegal exports to Iran and was forced to pay a fine. Overall between 300-400 tons were sent to Iraq.

Looks like the US and Europeans and Chinese sold them the stuff, including (from the US) a front company run by Iraq from the US, and a US company that acted in violation of the law.

So it's not like the Cheney was selling it to them...

And then this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja

Now, you were going to say that Iraq never had any WMD?

Unfamiliar with history?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Iraq_War



Looks like the US and Europeans and Chinese sold them the stuff, including (from the US) a front company run by Iraq from the US, and a US company that acted in violation of the law.

So it's not like the Cheney was selling it to them...

And then this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja

Now, you were going to say that Iraq never had any WMD?

Good find. Sounds to me a precursor to a scam. Sell it to them then attack them for having it. Mo money! Mo money! Mo money!

Good find. Sounds to me a precursor to a scam. Sell it to them then attack them for having it. Mo money! Mo money! Mo money!

No, read the article.

At least from the US end, one business was an Iraqi front operation in the US.

The other was illegally selling the stuff (i.e., our government was not involved).

Understand?

Good find. Sounds to me a precursor to a scam. Sell it to them then attack them for having it. Mo money! Mo money! Mo money!

You are excellent at getting out of having to face the fact that you are completely wrong.

Prove it! Proof.

Oh yeah, what about this? Debunked.

Oh yeah, well it is all some whacked-out conspiracy started decades before the Bush admin got into office! Prove it isn't!

How old are you anyway?

We never caned anyone for dropping gum in the streets.The Western media paints a very funny picture of us. ;)

oh well.

We do cane people for graffiti,vandalism,molestation and rape though.But definitely not for dropping um in the streets.And its actually legal to buy one.Seriously, the police don't give a shit if they see you throwing gum around.

that rumor was actually started by a singer in the 80's he was trying to get Americans to litter less and meant it as a joke. The American public as usual didn't get it and though OMG they going to cane me for spitting out gum.

No, read the article.

At least from the US end, one business was an Iraqi front operation in the US.

The other was illegally selling the stuff (i.e., our government was not involved).

Understand?

Are you familler with the term "silent partner?"

Serously Americans,do yourselves a favour and restore Clinton to his rightful place.It was about the only time when the rest of the world had a degree of respect and fear for the USA.Obama is good too.

LOL! You obviously do not know America's history in foreign politics, since we were respected by practically everyone in Europe for almost two hundred years prior to Clinton, and after World War II we were one of two powers feared by pretty much every government on the planet. That was before Clinton too, by the way.

So do the right choice and get rid of your stupid Warlord Bush.Stop letting your idiot religious right influence your policies with regard to other countries and stop screwing your allies over with your overly self-interested policies.

In this country we have an election which decides the President for us. If the President wins the election, he has a four year term as the chief executive, and sometimes he'll manage a second term as well, but that's it. George Bush is going to be gone very soon, since his time is up, so no one is going to -get rid- of him.

You are excellent at getting out of having to face the fact that you are completely wrong.

Prove it! Proof.

Oh yeah, what about this? Debunked.

Oh yeah, well it is all some whacked-out conspiracy started decades before the Bush admin got into office! Prove it isn't!

How old are you anyway?

The first scams of the Military-Industrial Complex (that Eisenhower warned us about) were long before that. A couple in Viet Nam. The Bradley tank. A few missiles. Ever see the 1995 film "The Pentagon Wars? They actually used hot plates mounted on a tank so a heat seeking missile could find them. (and the missile still missed) It did hit it's target when they attached one to a crane and just released the missile to drop a few feet down onto the target. (all of which was mentioned at various hearings)

I was born at night but not last night!

Are you familler with the term "silent partner?"

Are you familiar with my postings, and those of Yootopia?

Then you'll know that we're not a silent partner.

And I posted a link further back in the thread.

WMDs, by the way, were only a small part of our reasons to enter Iraq.
In 2003 it was the entirety of the reason offered for entering Iraq, that and Iraq's supposed willingness to sell WMDs to al-Qaeda (the Iraqi connection to al-Qaeda also being a lie).
No matter how many times a lie is repeated it remains a lie.
Damned straight.

The US has a long history of being the object of envy and hate. That is what happens to those who are winners. As usual the losers ultimately blame the winner for being the best instead of looking internally to find the reasons they are losers. Such is life.

The whole "the world is jealous of America" thing is getting tiring. Jealous of what exactly? Obesity? Our greenhouse gas emissions? The entanglement of church and state? Corporate welfare? Arrogance? Seriously, people don't hate us because we're oh so awesome. In fact, they hate us because we seem to think we're oh so awesome.

Not we! US! America! You & Yootopia!

What would stop a Cheney cronie from doing business with "a US company that acted in violation of the law" for the sole purpose of escalating a situation to get more defense contracts signed?

C'mon! All of Bush's cowboy diplamacy was for the sole purpose of getting defense contracts signed. Did we care at the time? No! We were paying more attention to those idiotic diversions called RED & ORANGE alert!

Bush and Cheney weren't in any position to do anything to provide chemical weapons and/or their constituents back in the early 1980s, when the US company acted in violation of the law.

Or are you saying that they were secretly running the country?

Do you know how stupid you look now?

Are you familiar with my postings, and those of Yootopia?

Then you'll know that we're not a silent partner.

And I posted a link further back in the thread.

Not we! US! America! You & Yootopia!

What would stop a Cheney cronie from doing business with "a US company that acted in violation of the law" for the sole purpose of escalating a situation to get more defense contracts signed?

C'mon! All of Bush's cowboy diplamacy was for the sole purpose of getting defense contracts signed. Did we care at the time? No! We were paying more attention to those idiotic diversions called RED & ORANGE alert!

Bush and Cheney weren't in any position to do anything to provide chemical weapons and/or their constituents back in the early 1980s, when the US company acted in violation of the law.

You do not make a very clear arguement (especially when you use wikipedia) A Regan or Bush Sr. cronie then.

You do not make a very clear arguement (especially when you use wikipedia) A Regan or Bush Sr. cronie then.

The evidence is available at other sources.

No supplies of chemical weapons were provided by anyone during the George W. Bush administration, unless you're asserting that he was President instead of Ronald Reagan.

Considering that one company was an Iraqi intelligence operation, and the other was someone acting illegally (and people were prosecuted), that doesn't sound like what you're asserting.

While I've provided evidence, you've provided nothing but wild assertions.

The US has a long history of being the object of envy and hate. That is what happens to those who are winners.

Must be why the dollar has sunk to be worth about 3/4 a Euro. Hell, it has even fallen 10 cents to the Mexican peso lately. Keep winning like that and your economy will accurately reflect your human rights record and your health system. :cool:

Must be why the dollar has sunk to be worth about 3/4 a Euro. Hell, it has even fallen 10 cents to the Mexican peso lately. Keep winning like that and your economy will accurately reflect your human rights record and your health system. :cool:

That should be a major problem for everyone else in the world.

You're holding Treasury notes - we've borrowed trillions from you.

If I owe a bank 1000 dollars, I have a problem.

If the US owes the rest of the world trillions of dollars, the world has a problem.

Think about it, next time you ask for the US to be fucked over.

No supplies of chemical weapons were provided by anyone during the George W. Bush administration, unless you're asserting that he was President instead of Ronald Reagan. Well now that you mention it, Even a president does not tell a former head of the CIA what to do.


Considering that one company was an Iraqi intelligence operation, and the other was someone acting illegally (and people were prosecuted), that doesn't sound like what you're asserting.

While I've provided evidence, you've provided nothing but wild assertions.

You have presented a wiki page that says is in dispute at the top. (as many of them are) Wiki is for base resarch. Not a good place to prove a point.

I usually disagree with what Republicans have to say, but Eisenhower was right on the money with his M-IC theory! And Reagan was all for a large military budget! All that money over all those decades, yet we can't get Afganistan or Iraq under control. Can't do anything about South America drug lords. Can't even stop illegal immagration! :rolleyes:

Well now that you mention it, Even a president does not tell a former head of the CIA what to do.

To quibble, George W. Bush was never head of the CIA :D

"Director" of the CIA (under president Ford) My Bad!

George W. Bush was never head of the CIA.

To quibble, George W. Bush was never head of the CIA :D

"Director" of the CIA (under president Ford) My Bad!

"Director" of the CIA (under president Ford) My Bad!

George W. Bush wasn't. You keep stepping in deeper idiocy as you go.

You tell me then. who was director of the CIA from November 1975 to January 1977?

George HERBERT Walker Bush.

George W. Bush was never head of the CIA.

You tell me then. who was director of the CIA from November 1975 to January 1977?

You tell me then. who was director of the CIA from November 1975 to January 1977?

George H.W. Bush, who is not George W. Bush.

Ptttt. Ok I wasn't paying attention to "W" & "H W" Bush & Bush Sr. is more effective.

They're both scam artists in my book. Our "least bang for the buck" military proves it!

Ptttt. Ok I wasn't paying attention to "W" & "H W" Bush & Bush Sr. is more effective.

You still have zero links to proof of any of your assertions, and your knowledge of the "facts" seems to be zero as well. Your only defense is "pffft".

You still have zero links to proof of any of your assertions, and your knowledge of the "facts" seems to be zero as well. Your only defense is "pffft".

Oh you want links? Alls you had to do was ask!
Start with this one. Crunch all you want! I'll post more!
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174884

Ptttt. Ok I wasn't paying attention to "W" & "H W" Bush & Bush Sr. is more effective.

They're both scam artists in my book. Our "least bang for the buck" military proves it!

You need to shut up now. Please.

You are embarrassing yourself and anyone who agrees with your point of view, though not your incredibly poor ability to back anything up. Seriously, you just got owned by someone who, when you asked for proof that Iraq used WMD in the 90s, responded with who set Saddam up in 1983 and 1984 -- clearly not the 90s. Yet you missed that blatant error and have since gone on to mis-identify which President Bush was once the head of the CIA.

Really, you're not doing your "side" any favors if you're getting schooled by the likes of Snopes, Wikipedia, and Hotwife.

Oh you want links? Alls you had to do was ask!
Start with this one. Crunch all you want! I'll post more!
http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174884

Although quoting Chalmers Johnson wins you points, you should read more than you watch. Try his excellent book on the backlash to US foreign policy since 1950, Blowback.

You need to shut up now. Please.

You are embarrassing yourself and anyone who agrees with your point of view, though not your incredibly poor ability to back anything up. Seriously, you just got owned by someone who, when you asked for proof that Iraq used WMD in the 90s, responded with who set Saddam up in 1983 and 1984 -- clearly not the 90s. Yet you missed that blatant error and have since gone on to mis-identify which President Bush was once the head of the CIA.

Really, you're not doing your "side" any favors if you're getting schooled by the likes of Snopes, Wikipedia, and Hotwife.

Anyone that is nit picking because of "W" and "H W" is not helping anything! But it was my mistake and I admited it. Let's move on. If you want proof of any particular point, please just ask.

Although quoting Chalmers Johnson wins you points, you should read more than you watch. Try his excellent book on the backlash to US foreign policy since 1950, Blowback.

Sounds like a good read. Will look for it!

For example...Tila Tequila with her online business strategy and marketing of herself.

Oh, gawd! Please tell me that Tila Tequila is NOT the face of America to the rest of the world. That skank is another "famous-for-being-famous," here today, gone today creation of our celebrity obsessed entertainment culture.

Serously Americans,do yourselves a favour and restore Clinton to his rightful place.It was about the only time when the rest of the world had a degree of respect and fear for the USA.Obama is good too.

As a person of mainly Asian extract(mixed Chinese,Indian and Portugese),it's good to see a biracial person vying for power.

Seriously,we like the values America used to represent.I like how your country represents a degree of civil rights,opportunity and socioeconomic mobility,represented in your pop culture.

For example,Christina Aguilera is a canny businesswoman,as is Tila Tequila with her online business strategy and marketing of herself.They made themselves who they are through hard word.

You can do that in any country,but its just easier in America.If you have the talent and put in the hard work,you can make it.Certainly,your tertiary education is top class,though your high schools seem to be damn problematic,as are your gun control laws.

I won't pretend to understand your politics,because they elude me.For example,how can a man lose the popular vote like Bush but win via electoral college in 2000?Similarly the politics of my country would elude you.

You're dynamic and we like the values that you can represent.We like Coca-Cola,Pepsi and Obama (thought your Mcdonalds fast food is shit). We like many of your technological ideas (though Japanese and Korean animation as well as engineering products in Germany,Japan,Taiwan,China and Singapore are generally better.Some of your Hollywood stuff is watchable).

We like the images of sexy women wearing nothing but tiny pieces of cloth adorning our posters and magazins(Maxim,Playboy,Hustler,FHM,Sports Illustrated,Victoria Secret's,etc).

What we don't like is the seeming ignorace and one-sided support for a country that,though deserves every right to exist,doesn't have the right to oppress its other people, the Palestinians.

There's no easy solution to it,but only with American power and some imagination can it be resolved in the long term.

So do the right choice and get rid of your stupid Warlord Bush.Stop letting your idiot religious right influence your policies with regard to other countries and stop screwing your allies over with your overly self-interested policies.

We like your products,we like aspects of your culture and all of that,we like your MTV,but please...stop sending your soldiers to kill us.Because we'll kill them.And we don't really want to in the first place.

An anonymous poster called Orion Ascendant,from Singapore, whom nobody knows in real life and who is just expressing an opinion about Americans,to Americans,on a British-hosted forum,in an online community found by an Australian,maintained by Russian and Indian software programmers,on hardware manufactured in China,powered by mircroprocessors produced in Singapore and Taiwan.

I seriously don´t think Americans give a damn about how the rest of the world views their country. Sad, really. Of course, it´s not like the rest of the world truly gives a damn about the US either, it´s just the annoying cousin of the West. And if some do care, let me be the first to assure you that they´re wasting their precious time.

I seriously don´t think Americans give a damn about how the rest of the world views their country. Sad, really. Of course, it´s not like the rest of the world truly gives a damn about the US either, it´s just the annoying cousin of the West. And if some do care, let me be the first to assure you that they´re wasting their precious time.

Here I thought we were part of the "West". Unless you mean western Europe in which case I'd say we're more like a grandson- though I'd say you're the annoying ones cause you keep bothering us. Case in point:
1917: AHHH we're getting the shit kicked out of us by Germany come help!
1939: AHHH we're getting the shit kicked out of us by Germany again come help!

On a serious note. I agree we don't give a flying fuck what you think.

Here I thought we were part of the "West". Unless you mean western Europe in which case I'd say we're more like a grandson- though I'd say you're the annoying ones cause you keep bothering us. Case in point:
1917: AHHH we're getting the shit kicked out of us by Germany come help!
1939: AHHH we're getting the shit kicked out of us by Germany again come help!

On a serious note. I agree we don't give a flying fuck what you think.

Nah, cousin. You´re not important enough to be a grandson.;)

On the WWI-WWII reference, dear, the only reason the US entered these conflicts was because it interfered with it´s interests and because Japan bombed Pearl Harbor into oblivion. Had that hadn´t happened, you wouldn´t had gotten involved. There was no reason before to do so. Am I right?

But yes, we do agree in one detail, don´t we? You don´t give a flying hoot about what WE think about you, just as WE do not give a flying hoot about you. So, carry on the same way you have for the past, what, 200 years? Yes. No one´s keeping score on this side, except maybe the Arabs, and we all know that has a justification.:)

Nah, cousin. You´re not important enough to be a grandson.;)

As for us Europeans being annoying... nah. We were the ones who gave you what you have now (immaterial after 300 years). America is just a big melting pot and it was the dumpster of Europe for centuries.

We´re amazed, though, that from the garbage pail a nation as prosperous as yours rised, but once again, it was due to our systematic invasion of new territory to whom you owe who you are nowadays. You spawned from Britain.

You Spanish did so much better down south, didn't you? :p

On the WWII reference, dear, the only reason the US entered the conflict was because Japan bombed Pearl Harbor into oblivion. Had that hadn´t happened, you wouldn´t had gotten involved. There was no reason before to do so. Am I right?

No, actually.

But yes, we do agree in one detail, don´t we? You don´t give a flying hoot about what WE think about you, just as WE do not give a flying hoot about you.

You're both wrong. People should care how their country appears to others ... for their own safety if for no other reason.

You Spanish did so much better down south, didn't you? :p



No, actually.



You're both wrong. People should care how their country appears to others ... for their own safety if for no other reason.


Down south? No mate, we sucked a thousand fold there. I´m not turning a blind eye to my own history.;)

As for caring: Meh, that´s the reason why I edited my last post. I´m not in the mood to have a huge argument. Besides, it ended up being a bit too flamy for my taste.:p

Down south? No mate, we sucked a thousand fold there. I´m not turning a blind eye to my own history.;)

Well, in the spirit of self-flagellation, let me say I'm also thoroughly ashamed of the British invasion of Australia. Ashamed, not accusatory, since once they set foot on the place they became what we now call "australians." We didn't have a war of independence, so there's no handy line like that to say "before that we were British."

As for caring: Meh, that´s the reason why I edited my last post. I´m not in the mood to have a huge argument.

:eek: What was it about this thread which made you think it would be a likely place to have a nice chat?

Perhaps the OP should have made it a bit plainer in naming the thread. "Let's bash Yanks! Flamefest here! Bans ahoy!" :p

Well, in the spirit of self-flagellation, let me say I'm also thoroughly ashamed of the British invasion of Australia. Ashamed, not accusatory, since once they set foot on the place they became what we now call "australians." We didn't have a war of independence, so there's no handy line like that to say "before that we were British."



:eek: What was it about this thread which made you think it would be a likely place to have a nice chat?

Perhaps the OP should have made it a bit plainer in naming the thread. "Let's bash Yanks! Flamefest here! Bans ahoy!" :p

All European nations have dirt on their past.

Friendliness about the thread? I don´t rightly know yet. I must be losing what little mind I have left.:p

I think the OP was pretty clear. The message is there, implicit. In my case, and you probably did read my post to Lackadaisical, was kind of sarcastic. I better stay away from the ¨Bash Yanks¨ threads because my feelings towards the US are venomous and discussing the country and my views on it will only inflame the North Americans of the forum. Hence, edition´s my best ally. I´m sure you understand.:)

Of course, it´s not like the rest of the world truly gives a damn about the US either, it´s just the annoying cousin of the West. And if some do care, let me be the first to assure you that they´re wasting their precious time.Really? Is that why the words "United States," "America" and "American" appear in at least 188 of your forum posts?

(Per Jolt search engine; I didn't actually go back and count. :rolleyes:)

Hillary should be our next president anyway christina aguilera is hot! And she can sing. Dont mind my off topic ness

that rumor was actually started by a singer in the 80's he was trying to get Americans to litter less and meant it as a joke. The American public as usual didn't get it and though OMG they going to cane me for spitting out gum.

Really? Source the rumor.

Really? Is that why the words "United States," "America" and "American" appear in at least 188 of your forum posts?

(Per Jolt search engine; I didn't actually go back and count. :rolleyes:)

Oh my, we have us a Jolt search engine freak. 188 measly references from all my posts. Like I´m the only one who uses the words you mentioned, an oddity, isn´t it? But is not like half of the members of NS are American, eh? Right, right.:rolleyes:

Really? Source the rumor.

I cant just I remember watching it on Tv as a kid.
then later the artist apologizing about it when America too it too literally.

I cant just I remember watching it on Tv as a kid.
then later the artist apologizing about it when America too it too literally.

Google it. You have few references to the incident, but type what you do recall and search it.

I hardly think the matter of caning for spitting out gum is the stuff of a great argument.

So let's just go with what it says in Wikipedia about the Chewing Gum Ban. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewing_gum_ban_in_Singapore)

Oh, what the hell. People should be punished somehow for spitting their gum onto the street. It's worse than normal littering: it's unsanitary and the gum sticks to the ground, and/or people's shoes.

The article does seem to be somewhat ... er, playful. Get this:

The issue of chewing gum moved into an unexpected arena: international trade negotiation. In 1999, during a midnight golf game, United States President Bill Clinton and Singapore Prime Minister Goh Chok Tong agreed to initiate talks between the two countries for a bilateral free trade agreement (USS-FTA)[4]. The talks later continued under the new administration of President George W. Bush. Details of the closed-door negotiations are unknown, but it became apparent that by the final phase of the negotiation in early 2003, there remained two sticky issues: the War in Iraq and chewing gum.

Michael Fay was sentenced to 6 strokes with a cane in 1994. After a plee from president Clinton, the sentence was reduced to 4 strokes and carried out.

Michael Fay was sentenced to 6 strokes with a cane in 1994. After a plee from president Clinton, the sentence was reduced to 4 strokes and carried out.

If i had been President of the US I would have asked they raise the number of strokes to 10 since he embarrassed our country so much.

Michael Fay was sentenced to 6 strokes with a cane in 1994. After a plee from president Clinton, the sentence was reduced to 4 strokes and carried out.

This has some bearing on the foreign standing of the US ?

Three posts up is a lighthearted bit of spam, following on some light banter between me and Nanatsu. I thought that would be the only cover you would need to take your sorry ass away and stop getting pwned. But no, you want more. :rolleyes:

This has some bearing on the foreign standing of the US ?

Three posts up is a lighthearted bit of spam, following on some light banter between me and Nanatsu. I thought that would be the only cover you would need to take your sorry ass away and stop getting pwned. But no, you want more. :rolleyes:

If you dont like my posts. Stick your fingers in your eye! I WILL respond to something if I happen to know the answer. Deal with it!

And Pawned my ass! Don't sing it! Bring it! (your sorry ass)

I seriously don´t think Americans give a damn about how the rest of the world views their country. Sad, really.

Yup. People like that are found in all countries. It is indeed rather sad.

Of course, it´s not like the rest of the world truly gives a damn about the US either, it´s just the annoying cousin of the West.

That's funny. Some of my French friends once made similar comments about Spain.

And if some do care, let me be the first to assure you that they´re wasting their precious time.

Wait. What? It's sad Americans don't care what others think of them and yet people are wasting their time if they do?


Nah, cousin. You´re not important enough to be a grandson.;)

On the WWI-WWII reference, dear, the only reason the US entered these conflicts was because it interfered with it´s interests and because Japan bombed Pearl Harbor into oblivion.


Actually Pearl Harbor was not destroyed. Only a couple of ships were a complete loss. N

Had that hadn´t happened, you wouldn´t had gotten involved. There was no reason before to do so. Am I right?

Actually no. President Roosevelt wanted in bad. There were others that were getting involved. China and the RAF for example. Now shall we talk about the status of the American Military of the time? It was hardly in a state to take on Germany or Japan.

But yes, we do agree in one detail, don´t we? You don´t give a flying hoot about what WE think about you, just as WE do not give a flying hoot about you. So, carry on the same way you have for the past, what, 200 years? Yes. No one´s keeping score on this side, except maybe the Arabs, and we all know that has a justification.:)

Ok so if neither side cares.....what's the point of this "discussion?"

Nah, cousin. You´re not important enough to be a grandson.;)

On the WWI-WWII reference, dear, the only reason the US entered these conflicts was because it interfered with it´s interests and because Japan bombed Pearl Harbor into oblivion. Had that hadn´t happened, you wouldn´t had gotten involved. There was no reason before to do so. Am I right?

Considering the fact that we violated our own Neutrality by arming the allies in Europe, I'd say we were involved for quite sometime before Hitler dragged us into the conflict in Europe by declaring war on us.

As an Australian I find that many of our critics think you should do more then complain when you do. It comes down to the fact that America is the richest country per capita in the world and the world is jealous.

Whilst your standing as a super power may be falling the only way that you can avoid the tall poppy syndrome (Big wig for thoes who dont get Aussie slang) of other countries is to lessen your wealth of something close to the middle east.

That being said enjoy what you have and be proud of it. I have been to many places and the pride I found most just was the fact that your own country can run itself relatively peacfully and fairly which is often more then can be said for the critics

Yup. People like that are found in all countries. It is indeed rather sad.

Indeed.

That's funny. Some of my French friends once made similar comments about Spain.

The sentiment is kinda mutual, darling.;)

Wait. What? It's sad Americans don't care what others think of them and yet people are wasting their time if they do?

Yes. If I didn't give a damn about you and you knew it, wouldn't it be wasting your time dwelling over it? You already know I don't like you, so what's the point in worrying. Of course, the situation is still rather sad. But meh. ((Hypothetical situation using you, of course.))

Actually Pearl Harbor was not destroyed. Only a couple of ships were a complete loss. N

Which goes to show bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki was horrible on the US's part. No point in crying over spilled milk. And Nihon already "pardoned" it's American neighbor so...

Actually no. President Roosevelt wanted in bad. There were others that were getting involved. China and the RAF for example. Now shall we talk about the status of the American Military of the time? It was hardly in a state to take on Germany or Japan.

Then why sent troops to Brittany if that was the case? Besides, there was no reason for the US to get involved. Hitler had been killing Jews, Slavs and other ethnicities all over Europe and our American cousin had turned a blind eye to the matter. Britain had already entered the conflict and Churchill was doing a good job... Why then sent unfit children to die on the shores of France when seemingly, the war had nothing to do with your country?

Of course, that would explain how string the Manifest Destiny of the US is. World Police to the rescue!:rolleyes:

Ok so if neither side cares.....what's the point of this "discussion?"

I think me and Nobel Hobos were asking the same question a few posts ago. This thread is pointless. But bantering and spamming with Mr. Hobos is always interesting. You never know what you're gonna get out of him.:p

Which goes to show bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki was horrible on the US's part. No point in crying over spilled milk. And Nihon already "pardoned" it's American neighbor so...


Meh. The firebomb raids were far worst and never mind the fact it was declared war. Looking for morality in war is a fools errand.

Then why sent troops to Brittany if that was the case?
The troops by the time of D-Day were a trained and equipped army. Much different then what was available 1939-1941.

Besides, there was no reason for the US to get involved. Hitler had been killing Jews, Slavs and other ethnicities all over Europe and our American cousin had turned a blind eye to the matter.


Europe and the USSR wasn't fighting Hitler because of his treatment of the Jew.

Britain had already entered the conflict and Churchill was doing a good job... Why then sent unfit children to die on the shores of France when seemingly, the war had nothing to do with your country?

Maybe the people of the time actually cared what went on in Europe. Maybe the people realized the threat the Germans presented. As Corne pointed out, we were involved with the supply aspects. Talk to the Russians and they will tell you the tanks sucked but the spam, meds and trucks were quite valuable to their effort in the early days.

Of course, that would explain how string the Manifest Destiny of the US is. World Police to the rescue!:rolleyes:

If you are going to mention Manifest Destiny, at least know what it was and what it was about. Monroe was not talking about a world police.....

If you are going to mention Manifest Destiny, at least know what it was and what it was about. Monroe was not talking about a world police.....

:rolleyes:
It grates me when Americans think that just because you're from a different country, you aren't aware of the history of little US of A. Historical Isolationism isn't necessarily practiced as fervently in the rest of the world as is in the US, sweetie.

Manifest Destiny was the belief that the United States was destined to expand from the Atlantic seaboard to the Pacific Ocean; it has also been used to advocate for or justify other territorial acquisitions. Advocates of Manifest Destiny believed that expansion was not only good, but that it was obvious ("manifest") and certain ("destiny"). Originally a political catch phrase of the 19th century, "Manifest Destiny" eventually became a standard historical term, often used as a synonym for the expansion of the United States across the North American continent.

Other Uses of Manifest Destiny:
(WORLD POLICE IN ACTION!)

Spanish-American War and the Philippines
In 1898, after the sinking of the USS Maine in the harbor at Havana, Cuba, the United States intervened on the side of Cuban rebels who were fighting the Spanish Empire, beginning the Spanish-American War. Although advocates of Manifest Destiny in the 1840s had called for the annexation of Cuba, the Teller Amendment, passed unanimously by the U.S. Senate before the war, proclaimed Cuba "free and independent" and disclaimed any U.S. intention to annex the island. After the war, the Platt Amendment (1902) established Cuba as a virtual protectorate of the United States. If Manifest Destiny meant the outright annexation of territory, it no longer applied to Cuba, since Cuba was never annexed.

Unlike Cuba, the United States did annex Guam, Puerto Rico, and the Philippines after the war with Spain. The acquisition of these islands marked a new chapter in U.S. history. Traditionally, territories were acquired by the United States for the purpose of becoming new states, on equal footing with already existing states. These islands, however, were acquired as colonies rather than prospective states, a process validated by the Insular Cases, in which the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that full constitutional rights did not automatically extend to all areas under American control. In this sense, annexation was a violation of traditional Manifest Destiny. According to Frederick Merk, "Manifest Destiny had contained a principle so fundamental that a Calhoun and an O'Sullivan could agree on it—that a people not capable of rising to statehood should never be annexed. That was the principle thrown overboard by the imperialism of 1899." (The Philippines was eventually given its independence in 1946; Guam and Puerto Rico have special status to this day, but all their people are full citizens of the United States.)

On the other hand, Manifest Destiny had also contained within it the idea that "uncivilized" peoples could be improved by exposure to the Christian, democratic values of the United States. In his decision to annex the Philippines, President McKinley echoed this theme: "There was nothing left for us to do but to take them all, and to educate the Filipinos, and uplift and civilize and Christianize them...." Rudyard Kipling's poem "The White Man's Burden", which was subtitled "The United States and the Philippine Islands", was a famous expression of these sentiments, which were common at the time. Many Filipinos, however, resisted this effort to "uplift and civilize" them, resulting in the outbreak of the Philippine-American War in 1899. After the war began, William Jennings Bryan, an opponent of overseas expansion, wrote that "‘Destiny’ is not as manifest as it was a few weeks ago."

Later usage
After the turn of the nineteenth century to the twentieth, the phrase Manifest Destiny declined in usage, as territorial expansion ceased to be promoted as being a part of America's "destiny." Under President Theodore Roosevelt, the role of the United States in the New World was defined, in the 1904 Roosevelt Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine, as being an "international police power" to secure American interests in the Western Hemisphere. Roosevelt's corollary contained an explicit rejection of territorial expansion. In the past, Manifest Destiny had been seen as necessary to enforce the Monroe Doctrine in the Western Hemisphere, but now expansionism had been replaced by interventionism as a means of upholding the doctrine.

It's all contained here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_Destiny)!

Monroe might not have been talking about a world police, darling, but Roosevelt certainly did. Manifest Destiny became sinonymous with intervention by the US where they thought "democracy" was being threatened. Furthermore, Wilson stated the following, in regards to Manifest Destiny:
...I think we all realize that the day has come when Democracy is being put upon its final test. The Old World is just now suffering from a wanton rejection of the principle of democracy and a substitution of the principle of autocracy as asserted in the name, but without the authority and sanction, of the multitude. This is the time of all others when Democracy should prove its purity and its spiritual power to prevail. It is surely the manifest destiny of the United States to lead in the attempt to make this spirit prevail.
If that isn't a world police, then I don't know what Manifest Destiny definition you're talking about.

:rolleyes:
It grates me when Americans think that just because you're from a different country, you aren't aware of the history of little US of A. Historical Isolationism isn't necessaily practiced as fervently in the rest of the world as is in the US, sweetie.



Ok. You found wiki. Hardly makes you an expert on the topic.

Ok. You found wiki. Hardly makes you an expert on the topic.

I want you to point out to me any instance where I have claimed I'm an expert in American history. I'm not, but neither are you (not even you, an American, know your own history), so desist.

I want you to point out to me any instance where I have claimed I'm an expert in American history. I'm not, but neither are you (not even you, an American, know your own history), so desist.

:D Sure sweetheart. You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. After all I care about you feeling good about yourself.

I don't know all of it but I know a great deal more then you think. I am kind of motivated simply because I have relatives mentioned in the history books.....

:D Sure sweetheart. You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. After all I care about you feeling good about yourself.

I don't need you to make me feel good about myself, darling. Whatever gave you that silly idea, little one?:rolleyes:

I don't know all of it but I know a great deal more then you think. I am kind of motivated simply because I have relatives mentioned in the history books.....

Your lack of knowledge tells me otherwise.

If you know, oh so much about the history of your own people as you "proudly" state (because your ancestors are in the history books), how was it that you didn't know about the different uses of the term Manifest Destiny?

Make your ancestors proud by understanding, not by being motivated and just prattling like a parrot.;)

In any instance, we have agreed in one thing. Neither of us gives a damn about what the other thinks about their country. Right?

Carry on.

Your lack of knowledge tells me otherwise.

:D I am not the one quoting wiki.

If you know, oh so much about the history of your own people as you "proudly" state (because your ancestors are in the history books:rolleyes:), how was it that you didn't know about the different uses of the term Manifest Destiny?

Make your ancestors proud by understanding, not by being motivated and just prattling like a parrot.;)


Why? You don't care.

In any instance, we have agreed in one thing. Neither of us gives a damn about what the other thinks about their country. Right?

For someone who doesn't care sweetheart, you keep replying.

Maybe you care about me more then you admit. :D

:D I am not the one quoting wiki.

Have you presented anything better to sustain your claim that I don't know what Manifest Destiny is?

I don't see any sources.

Why? You don't care.

Oh, I don't care about America, that's true. But I do care about history, in any respect.

Odd that you say this, after all, you claimed you're motivated because you have family members in the history books...

For someone who doesn't care sweetheart, you keep replying.

Isn't that the purpose of debating? Or have the rules changed?:rolleyes:

Maybe you care about me more then you admit. :D

You think a lot about yourself, don't you?;)

Have you presented anything better to sustain your claim that I don't know what Manifest Destiny is?

I don't see any sources.

Oh, I don't care about America, that's true. But I do care about history, in any respect.

Odd that you say this, after all, you claimed you're motivated because you have family members in the history books...

Isn't that the purpose of debating? Or have the rules changed?:rolleyes:


Oh wait formal debate rules? This is the general. The process usually is: baseless claim, baseless counter claim, snipe, counter snipe, insult, run to mod....

So the rules don't apply here. ;)

Normally, I do like to talk history. But I have been around here long enough to know nothing interesting can be discussed when the sniping goes on.

You think a lot about yourself, don't you?;)

I am a male. Of course I do! :)

Oh wait formal debate rules? This is the general. The process usually is: baseless claim, baseless counter claim, snipe, counter snipe, insult, run to mod....

I don't tend to run to a mod unless I feel I have been overly insulted. You haven't done that so. And in any case, is not like the mods can do a whole lot.

So the rules don't apply here. ;)

Pity.

Normally, I do like to talk history. But I have been around here long enough to know nothing interesting can be discussed when the sniping goes on.

I try to keep things interesting when I debate. Any sniping I do is because the information snipped isn't relevant to the discussion.

I am a male. Of course I do! :)

Ok, truce, man, truce. You just made me laugh a lot.:D

Slavery, segregation, discrimination, inequality, puritanism, censorship? No, no "we" don't.

Oh come on, America was not the only country with that stuff! And remember n, the north got rid of slavery at the beginning.

Ok, truce, man, truce. You just made me laugh a lot.:D

No worries. :)

You will find I will attack my own for perceived lack of knowledge as well. Nail me outright and I am one of the few that will confess defeat.

Another time; we might be able to converse over some historical topic. Usually, they go well here when they don't start out as an America is great/sucks....

I have to bail for now.

Do have a good one! :)

Oh come on, America was not the only country with that stuff! And remember n, the north got rid of slavery at the beginning.

Even if the United States became an absolute bastion of human equality and freedom, the bitter angry Swede would still try to find something about the country to complain about.

No worries. :)

You will find I will attack my own for perceived lack of knowledge as well. Nail me outright and I am one of the few that will confess defeat.

Another time; we might be able to converse over some historical topic. Usually, they go well here when they don't start out as an America is great/sucks....

I have to bail for now.

Do have a good one! :)

;)Agur!

Short answer the slave trade started with Queen Elizabeth in England.

SHOCK*** its not American GASP*** its a female HORROR***

The English saw a profit in going to africa and forcing people out of their communities for slavery. Why does no one criticise England in this matter? Could it be that the English are just to good to make people slaves? Or the fact that America is just a bigger target?

The fact is that England and too a lesser extent other places in Europe profited of this trade. If your going to criticize America over this at least take England along for the ride while your at it

Short answer the slave trade started with Queen Elizabeth in England.

WRONG!!

The slave trade was started by the Portuguese (http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/DIASPORA/SLAVE.HTM) in 1444. Spain followed soon after in the 1500s and then England got into the act. Do me a favor and get your facts straight.

Even if the United States became an absolute bastion of human equality and freedom, the bitter angry Swede would still try to find something about the country to complain about.

Short answer: don't try to argue against Fass.

Oh come on, America was not the only country with that stuff! And remember n, the north got rid of slavery at the beginning.

No we did not Clintville 2

If you dont like my posts. Stick your fingers in your eye! I WILL respond to something if I happen to know the answer. Deal with it!

What were you responding to? Since you didn't quote, I assumed you were pursuing the question of people being caned for spitting chewing gum.

And Pawned my ass! Don't sing it! Bring it! (your sorry ass)

Point to one post, ONE, where you think you have prevailed in this thread.

As far as I can see, you have made one ludicrous claim after another, and retracted each of them with almost no attempt at defense. Calling the distinction between the two Bush Presidents "nitpicking" was pretty much the cherry on top.