NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok. I've never really spoken in General before. But I had just recently read McCain's article in Foreign Affairs (http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20071101faessay86602-p30/john-mccain/an-enduring-peace-built-on-freedom.html.) And... well.. read this first


..."A decade and a half ago, the Russian people threw off the tyranny of communism and seemed determined to build a democracy and a free market and to join the West. Today, we see in Russia diminishing political freedoms, a leadership dominated by a clique of former intelligence officers, efforts to bully democratic neighbors, such as Georgia, and attempts to manipulate Europe's dependence on Russian oil and gas. We need a new Western approach to this revanchist Russia. We should start by ensuring that the G-8, the group of eight highly industrialized states, becomes again a club of leading market democracies: it should include Brazil and India but exclude Russia. Rather than tolerate Russia's nuclear blackmail or cyberattacks, Western nations should make clear that the solidarity of NATO, from the Baltic to the Black Sea, is indivisible and that the organization's doors remain open to all democracies committed to the defense of freedom. We must also increase our programs supporting freedom and the rule of law in Russia and emphasize that genuine partnership remains open to Moscow if it desires it but that such a partnership would involve a commitment to being a responsible actor, internationally and domestically."

This seems a self-defeating argument to me. And ridiculous.

Discuss!

I have to wonder if he thinks the other members will go along with the US on this myself? ;)

though letting Brazil and India join the club is a good idea

edit: LOL @ spelling mistake

McCain has a foreign policy? I thought it was just "nuke teh brown peoplz".

I mean seriously, the guy thinks Al Qaeda in Iraq got aid from Iran. He's clearly out of touch.

McCain has a foreign policy? I thought it was just "nuke teh brown peoplz".
FACE... PALM.

He might be one of the worse candidates, but he's more complex than that ;)

FACE... PALM.

He might be one of the worse candidates, but he's more complex than that ;)

I don't know...going senile is a strange thing.

We dont have enough real enemies I guess, so McCain needs to activally create more.

We dont have enough real enemies I guess, so McCain needs to activally create more.

i guess he hasnt looked into putin's eyes like bush did to see that hes a good guy that we can work with.

or maybe he'd have to look into the eyes of the new guy....

makes a lot of sense.

I can't see what it will really accomplish, I doubt Russia will give that much of a crap.

McCain has a foreign policy? I thought it was just "nuke teh brown peoplz".

I mean seriously, the guy thinks Al Qaeda in Iraq got aid from Iran. He's clearly out of touch.

Yes. Its the dozen other groups they support not Al Qaeda in Iraq. Therefore Mccian is completely out of touch fbecause he got orginzations mixed up.

I can't see what it will really accomplish, I doubt Russia will give that much of a crap.

all he is talking about is focusing more on making stronger connections with fellow democracies. Rather then developing connections with non democratic countries just because they have oil.

Yes. Its the dozen other groups they support not Al Qaeda in Iraq. Therefore Mccian is completely out of touch fbecause he got orginzations mixed up.

its a big mistake but i think it was one where he misspoke rather than actually thinking that iran would ever support alqaeda

i guess he hasnt looked into putin's eyes like bush did to see that hes a good guy that we can work with.

or maybe he'd have to look into the eyes of the new guy....
I think he'd still see Putin through the new guy's eyes.

And why should we think that Bush was right about Putin's character?

all he is talking about is focusing more on making stronger connections with fellow democracies. Rather then developing connections with non democratic countries just because they have oil.

Ill believe that when he starts talking about isolating and breaking off relations with the Saudis. But I wont be holding my breath. Oil Companies have a leash around the Repubican's dicks.


This is just a senile, wamongering old man saber rattling at another country he doesnt like fo various reasons, most of them idiotic.

Ill believe that when he starts talking about isolating and breaking off relations with the Saudis.


But I wont be holding my breath. Oil Companies have a leash around the Repubican's dicks.

And Bill Clinton was so hard to the Saudis. We need their oil. no way around it right now.
Once all there oil is gone/alternative fuels work i think the republicans will be the first to not give a shit about them.

And Bill Clinton was so hard to the Saudis. We need their oil. no way around it right now.
Once all there oil is gone/alternative fuels work i think the republicans will be the first to not give a shit about them.

You said that McCain is trying to establish relations with countries who are democracies, and not just be buddies with countries who have oil.

I said that this logic is false because McCain wont be going after the Saudis anytime soon. See where Im going here? Democracy has nothing to do with it. Some people, senile old warmongers in particular, just dont like to think the Cold War is over.

I have to wonder if he thinks the other members will go along with the US on this myself? ;)

I can't imagine they'd go along with it. But then, if Russia continues with its trend of unfreedom, it becomes sillier and sillier to have Russia and not China in the G8. It begins to look more like "White People Club".

Not that restarting the Cold War is a fabulous idea.

You said that McCain is trying to establish relations with countries who are democracies, and not just be buddies with countries who have oil.

I said that this logic is false because McCain wont be going after the Saudis anytime soon. See where Im going here? Democracy has nothing to do with it. Some people, senile old warmongers in particular, just dont like to think the Cold War is over.

or maybe since we don't depend on the Russians economically as much thats who we can cut out. Why go out of our way to appease a country that seems bent on taking over Georgia and the Ukraine, when we do not really have any interest there ?
the Saudis we can use their oil that is in our interest.

and actually if you read to page 7 he does talk about lessening ties with the Saudis and other oil governments in the Mideast.

McCain's Forign Policy:

McCain: "Which button is it again?"

We dont have enough real enemies I guess, so McCain needs to activally create more.

Pretty much...I stated as much a thread on the same subject.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=555712

...not only Russia, but China too. McCain is a seriously frightening prospective president.

Take this to the official US Election thread (stickied at the top of this forum), please.