NationStates Jolt Archive

So I was inspired by this thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=558352) to create this thread. Ok, let's say you're happy with your life, you have a nice job, a nice home, and you got a hot new girlfriend. Everything is great right? WRONG! You don't have the right religion, and now idiots are coming up to your house, coming up to you at work, Hell even coming up to you at Wal-Mart (or Wally World) to try to convert you. Do you know how to deal with it? Well don't worry because Uncle Wilgrove will tell you how!

Christians (if you're non Christian): Most of these people will try to point out that your life is ultimately empty and without the saving power of Jesus's blood you're pretty much damned to a lake of fire and brimstone.

If you are at home, and they come a'knocking at your door, all you really need to do is pull a member of the same sex out from hiding and kiss him/her. It can't be a grandma kiss either, it has to be a real kiss! Then invite them to your Threesome!

If they approach you at work or in public, you'll have to be more subtle if they approach you at work or in public. Basically keep asking them why Moses, Xenu, Thor, etc. couldn't save you instead of Jesus. Keep this up until they get frustrated and leave. However, if they come back, then invite them to a Wiccan ritual. If you mention that the ritual is skyclad (nude), the better!

Christians (Mostly Southern Baptist) converting Catholics: There's a real problem in the South of Southern Baptist trying to covert Catholics to their denomination. Never fear though, I have found a way to put an end to this once and for all. In order for this to work, you'll need a plastic Mary. Always carry the plastic Mary around with you. When a Southern Baptist starts to try to convert you start talking to your plastic Mary! Ask for advice, ask to see what you should do. Don't do the plastic Mary's voice. Just stand there with a smile on your face. If they ask what they're waiting for, just say "I never do anything without Mary's say so." Say it as calm and as convincing as you can!

JWs and Mormons:All you really have to do is draw (or tape) a body outline on your front porch, and scatter their pamphlet around the outline of the body. Extra points if you add fake blood.

Scientologist: Just say Xenu already recruited you.

Well those are my suggestions, what are yours?

Wire your doorbell up to the mains. And make it a bronze one.

"I am God."

Politely tell them they're not interested and close the door/walk away.

Throw them pies or puddings.

Politely tell them they're not interested and close the door/walk away.
Boooooring :p

I find that opening the door, looking around confusedly, then shrugging and going to check the mail works well. If you can pull it off. The trick is to avoid eye contact and body language that suggests other people are there.
Of course, if you do it poorly, it still works :P

Be converted to every religion.

What is wrong with, "No thank you, don't call again," and closing the door?

Really, is it necessary to be an asshole?

I find no matter what religion, wether it is sceintologists or other christian denominations, that the best way to drive away people trying to convert you is to try to convert them to your relgiion(if you are an atheist or something, tell them you are a druid that worships asparagus...works every time even though I am not an atheist)

put on ome black metal and crank up the volume.

Post a clothing not allowed inside this house sign. answer the door naked insist they remove their clothes before coming in.

What is wrong with, "No thank you, don't call again," and closing the door?

Really, is it necessary to be an asshole?

Yea, but if you're nice, then that sends the signal that you are re-approachable. If you're an asshole, then they'll cross you off their list and assume that you're damned no matter what they try to do. :)

What is wrong with, "No thank you, don't call again," and closing the door?

Really, is it necessary to be an asshole?
No more necessary then them approaching you at home

Now personally I dont much have to deal with it ... like city services they dont come this far out of town

That being said I can sympathize ... I cherish my free and personal time with as hard as I work and dislike it when people encroach on that time. as such as it is not harmful to them I think it is perfectly legit to prank people who are making it a point to approach you or come on your property and take your time ... tit for tat I guess.

Have a big dog and answer the door with weapon in hand?

Honestly though I just kindly tell them to remove themselves from my property and inform them that it's trespassing and I'll call the police.

Yea, but if you're nice, then that sends the signal that you are re-approachable. If you're an asshole, then they'll cross you off their list and assume that you're damned no matter what they try to do. :)

All the while you are confirming some people's view point that all 'non-theists' are assholes, immoral, rude, mean, and otherwise evil. :rolleyes:

All the while you are confirming some people's view point that all 'non-theists' are assholes, immoral, rude, mean, and otherwise evil. :rolleyes:
Again not my style but if I was in a high traffic area it would be tempting ... possibly considerably less of my free time spent shooing them away.

They dont seem to consider the confirmation of a lot of 'non-theists' view that they are rude, holier then thou, pushy, and inconsiderate.

"Can God fix radiators?"

You had to be there but if you had've been you'd be spraying you beverage all over the screen right now. *nods*

Yea, but if you're nice, then that sends the signal that you are re-approachable. If you're an asshole, then they'll cross you off their list and assume that you're damned no matter what they try to do. :)

Must be why there are lines of people coming to bother me outside my house...

oh wait....

no really, all you have to do is say "thank you but im not interested" same as with any kind of salesman.

no big drama necessary.

It only happens like once every two years, so I don't see any reason to be a dick.

I used to try amusing things like attempting to convert the JW at my door to FLDS (I'm an agnostic), but lately, I'm finding I agree with Kat, a firm "no thank you, I'm not interested" and a firmly closed (not slammed) door works just fine.

I've never been approached in my own home by any of those door to door types (a bonus of living in a block of flats in a part of town most middle class Christian types wouldn't be seen dead in, or perhaps would only be seen dead in...)

However I'd probably just tell them as bluntly and clearly as possible hat I don't want to know. I wouldn't "play" with them as I don't regard my own religion as something to be used and abused like that, and I wouldn't really want to torture other peoples religious beliefs either.

I'm told, though I never got the opportunity (or probably, the nerve) to try it out, that a good technique is to very politely ask him/her/them for a lock of their hair, and absolutely refuse to say why.

You counter with a convert of your own.

Example:
*door bell rings, you answer*
JW:hello! I'm here to bring you the good news about Jesus Christ!
You: Really? that's Amazing! I'm here to bring to the good news about <insert thing here>
JW: But- but...
You: it has been fortold by <insert object here> that you would come and ring this door bell, thus, I am here to help you see the light!

Etc.

Tell them to go away probably works, if not phone the Police for idiots wasting your time.
Failing that, actually go to their little religious group place (ie a special house or church or something)
Take a video camera and ask them why they don't leave you alone, tell them you'l threaten with legal action and i think they would back off. (heh the camera doesn't even have to be running, just the psychology of being on camra should get folks nervous).

Must be why there are lines of people coming to bother me outside my house...

oh wait....

It does depend on where you live.

When you get at least five attempts a week to "Read the Bible with you to bring you the word of God", one's patience does wear a little thin.

This stopped only when I asked the group (three little old ladies and a twenty something man in a suit) if they actually knew how to read Aramaic.

After a few seconds of puzzled looks, I had to explain that unless they were going to read it in Aramaic, they were bringing me the 'word of the translator'.

They never came back.

Engage them in debate. Do what amounts to counter-conversion. If they talk about sin, elaborate on your religion's views on sin. They will mark you as "No chance of converting THIS guy - he's way out of our league".

Engage them in debate. Do what amounts to counter-conversion. If they talk about sin, elaborate on your religion's views on sin. They will mark you as "No chance of converting THIS guy - he's way out of our league".

then again they might put you on their blacklist, and send a killteam over to exterminate you.
cool, good idea.

Simple, tell them you aren't interested instead of being an ass about it.

Engage them in debate. Do what amounts to counter-conversion. If they talk about sin, elaborate on your religion's views on sin. They will mark you as "No chance of converting THIS guy - he's way out of our league".
Boring.

"No ta" is fine, really.

Seriously why embarrass your self by showing how much of an idiot you can be? Tell them you aren't interested or if you are worried about them coming back say you're from out of town.

Seriously why embarrass your self by showing how much of an idiot you can be? Tell them you aren't interested or if you are worried about them coming back say you're from out of town.

When you are working at home, deep in concentration on some project (be it translation, coding, or writing a paper on something esoteric) and you are interrupted for the nth time, you have no reason at all to be polite.

I do not go knocking on their door, interrupting their activities to try to persuade them to believe the same bs as I believe, so why should they do it to me with impunity?
I do not care whether they think I am an idiot, their opinion really does not matter to me in the slightest. The only thing I want is for them to stop bothering me when it is not convenient.

If they sent me an e-mail, then I would politely reply, at the moment of my choosing.

What is wrong with, "No thank you, don't call again," and closing the door?

Really, is it necessary to be an asshole?
Yes.:D

I've had a few morns recently, and what works well for me is putting on my old football shirt, which is really just a cut off sleeveless shirt at about lower rib level, and answer the door picking my belly button. Did I mentition I'm about 240 lbs with a large gut? Add in a loud burp, and say "what the fuck are ya lookin' at?" and they leave.

I was positive when I saw the title that the thread was about how to stop people converting from your own religion, possibly in-game. That would also have been an interesting discussion. XD

What is wrong with, "No thank you, don't call again," and closing the door?

Really, is it necessary to be an asshole?

You know, at one point, I may have been sympathetic to that line of reasoning, until:

1) They come and wake me up at 7 on a Saturday morning, ruining one of my two weekly chances to actually sleep in. You want to tell somebody not to be an asshole, tell it to the evangelists who invariably start in the early morning so they can wake people up.

I mean, I've done canvassing for political reasons, but I never go when people are likely to still be asleep. It's common sense. Indeed, it's so blatantly obvious that I can only assume that anybody who goes out so early must know what they are doing and not care that they are being incredibly rude, and, as such, I see absolutely no reason to be polite to them. I can understand that nobody is perfect, but not giving a damn is nigh-inexcusable. Reap what you sow. (And yes, I would be equally impatient with door-to-door salesmen who came that early. I might be inclined to be a bit more patient with girl scouts selling cookies or whatever, because they're children and thus have an excuse. But evangelists are almost always adults and should know better.)

2) They come specifically to tell me that I am a horrible person who is going to be tormented for eternity-- and justly so-- if I disagree with them.

After this repeats several times, my patience wears thin.

Wow, that's what I would like to call spiritual terrorism, especially since I'm not a morning person myself. Seems like those irritating evangelists Pirated Corsairs talked about want people to dislike them, so they can fool themselves in thinking that they're persecuted like the first Christian communities (which were totally different from the various Christian flavours we've got in our wild and wacky world, but that aside). Apparently God gives you bonus points if you try your best to become a martyr, and to make honest people get up early in the morning after a week of hard work might sooner or later make you a victim of justifiable homicide.

:( They only want to be your friend, why do so many people hate them?

[them, refers to those Christians who knock at your door, or whatever funky cult the people claim to come from]

be gay.

works for me every time.

practicing an afro-caribbean religion also helps. for some reason they're less keen on talking to voodoo practitioners than catholics.

my friend in the army would open the door spray bug spray around the door frame then close the door.
though this was for those door to door magazine sellers.

I agree with the early morning thing. I too have canvassed for political reasons, i just did yesterday in fact, but we waited until the afternoon because we didn't want to wake people up. We actually used Jehovas Witnesses as an example, we said they are the only people who go knocking on doors at 9:00 in the morning.

It's the same reason why during an election, when we are canvassing a lot, we stop for the evening at about 7 or so, because we know people are winding down at the end of the evening and we don't want to keep disturbing them.

To me it's about being polite, it's bad enough that they want to shove their beliefs down our throats, but to do it at an hour of the morning when they know people are probably still sleeping or just waking up is rude.

But don't the followers of voodoo need salvation too? Are those converters not sinning by refusing to save those poor lost souls and must therefore suffer the dire consequences? Will God, He who is most just, holy and full of love, not cast them into the deepest pits of hell for not having done everything they could to save those misguided voodoo practitioners?

Frankly, I'm a bit disappointed. I thought evangelists were hardcore, apparently I was wrong.

But don't the followers of voodoo need salvation too? Are those converters not sinning by refusing to save those poor lost souls and must therefore suffer the dire consequences? Will God, He who is most just, holy and full of love, not cast them into the deepest pits of hell for not having done everything they could to save those misguided voodoo practitioners?
.
Frankly, I'm a bit disappointed. I thought evangelists were hardcore, apparently I was wrong.I'm on a converter "avoid" list. my parents are missionaries. I know all the arguments like the back of my hand. I am openly gay. I hang out with furrenurs and muslims. like seriously some of them who will try to convert ANYONE avoid me...I think I'm considered a spiritual danger zone. *flattered* I also used to live with two philosophy majors and have hindu deities on my room's door.

"honey, we just have to love them all until we can figure out which ones are god's children!"

the one who said that evidently has decided I'm definitely not "elect". thank god.

er...

I say I'm gay and they all run away:(

I say I'm gay and they all run away:(

Unless you're in a public restroom, of course! :D

Unless you're in a public restroom, of course! :D

LMAO... so true.:(

I'm on a converter "avoid" list.
I wouldn't be surprised if some people would be willing to pay for that privilege.

I try to be polite so I interrupt their first sentence with a firm " Fuck off" Not too much wasted time and only two wasted words.

I agree with the early morning thing. I too have canvassed for political reasons, i just did yesterday in fact, but we waited until the afternoon because we didn't want to wake people up. We actually used Jehovas Witnesses as an example, we said they are the only people who go knocking on doors at 9:00 in the morning.

It's the same reason why during an election, when we are canvassing a lot, we stop for the evening at about 7 or so, because we know people are winding down at the end of the evening and we don't want to keep disturbing them.

To me it's about being polite, it's bad enough that they want to shove their beliefs down our throats, but to do it at an hour of the morning when they know people are probably still sleeping or just waking up is rude.

Its nice that you try to be considerate ... though by and large I am betting people would find it more considerate to not be approached at all regardless of time

JWs and Mormons:All you really have to do is draw (or tape) a body outline on your front porch, and scatter their pamphlet around the outline of the body. Extra points if you add fake blood.


"Come in. Come in. Did you know, human bodies apparently make for some really good fertilizer. Come to think of it, my flowers aren't doing so well these days..."

:p

What is wrong with, "No thank you, don't call again," and closing the door?

Really, is it necessary to be an asshole?

Absolutely not. But it is necessary to be creative. :)

Absolutely not. But it is necessary to be creative. :)

You just set your kids on them.

Mormons: "No thanks, I don't want any magic underpants. I like going commando."

What is wrong with, "No thank you, don't call again," and closing the door?

Really, is it necessary to be an asshole?

YES! :D

It does depend on where you live.

When you get at least five attempts a week to "Read the Bible with you to bring you the word of God", one's patience does wear a little thin.

This stopped only when I asked the group (three little old ladies and a twenty something man in a suit) if they actually knew how to read Aramaic.

After a few seconds of puzzled looks, I had to explain that unless they were going to read it in Aramaic, they were bringing me the 'word of the translator'.

They never came back.

Você foi um sacana e eu REALMENTE gostei disto! Ótima resposta! :D

Yes.:D

Aww, man! You ruined my answer by answering it before me. :p

I say I'm gay and they all run away:(

Cara, acho que crente nenhum nunca bateu na minha porta. Mas eu já tenho idéias se baterem. :D

*snip*

LMAO
This may be boring, but as I am a tolerant sort of guy unlike some hypocrites on NSG, I just say I am not interested say goodbye and close the door.

What is wrong with, "No thank you, don't call again," and closing the door?

Really, is it necessary to be an asshole?

I tend to answer asshole with asshole.

I mean, I've done canvassing for political reasons, but I never go when people are likely to still be asleep. It's common sense. Indeed, it's so blatantly obvious that I can only assume that anybody who goes out so early must know what they are doing and not care that they are being incredibly rude, and, as such, I see absolutely no reason to be polite to them. I can understand that nobody is perfect, but not giving a damn is nigh-inexcusable. Reap what you sow. (And yes, I would be equally impatient with door-to-door salesmen who came that early. I might be inclined to be a bit more patient with girl scouts selling cookies or whatever, because they're children and thus have an excuse.

And cookies. They have an excuse and cookies.

I try to be polite, this works on most of them.
However, theres a group of JW's at the bus terminal where i transfer every day, these people are incredibly rude and persistent.
So heres what you do:
Step 1) Buy "Liber Chaotica: Khorne"
Step 2) Practice saying: "Blood for the blood god" and "Skulls for the skullthrone" in a deep bass voice
Step 3) when aproached, try to convert them to the worship of the biggest of gods, Khorne, lord of blood, he who sits on the skullthrone etc etc.
Step 4) Laugh at their asses while they run like frak :D

The more polite converters get a firm:"no thanks i only worship existing things.", this might seem a tad rude, but imho its the truth.

Just send them away normally, then follow them home at the end of the day. Wait till you hear them sitting down to dinner, ring their bell and ask them if they fancy giving up a life of willfull ignorance and segregation and be saved by renouncing god and all His machinations. See how they like it.
It works for so many different pests.
Fly leafleters, save up a stash and dump them all through the door of one person you catch leafletting.
The guys who put carrier bags through your door for charity clothes shops, just take your bag round their house and leave it for them in their garden.

And for those who say "Why not just be polite?"
There is a door on my house. It is to stop people who i don't know coming in and disturbing my peace. I know where the church/mosque/temple/synagogue/scientology lab/house of general ignorance is. If i don't i'll look it up if iwant it. I know where the charity shops are, i know where to get new windows. I know where to go if i want cavity wall insulation and I know where my nearest garden centre is. I am at university, you don't see me going round to peoples houses and saying "If you want a degree, Heriot Watt University is just what you are looking for, sign up today and you too can get a degree in International Business management"

AMK
xxx

All the while you are confirming some people's view point that all 'non-theists' are assholes, immoral, rude, mean, and otherwise evil. :rolleyes:

I'm not a non-theist.

However, I don't want some condescending, pious cunts intruding on my time to try to get me to join their particular denomination of a religion I probably don't care for and telling me I'm going to hell if I don't.

I hang out with furrenurs

What is a furrenur? I hope it's not anything like a furry...

All the while you are confirming some people's view point that all 'non-theists' are assholes, immoral, rude, mean, and otherwise evil. :rolleyes:

What??
Imagine if you asked a gay guy to be straight or a straight guy to be gay?
Imagine if you asked a vegetarian to eat meat. Or vice versa.
If they got antsy you would deserve it.

Secondly. If a guy who is aetheist is an asshole, that does not confirm that all aetheists are assholes.
Some daft **** who happens to be muslim who straps a bomb to himself and blows up a bus in london doesnt mean that other muslims are daft cunts. He is a tit because he strapped a bomb to himself and blew up a bus full of folks.
A white guy who shoots a room full of people doesnt make all white guys murderers. It makes him one.

See my point? You are not a numpty because someone who happens to share a similar trait as you was also a numpty. Thats just ridiculous. That means that all white men are equally responsible for the Dunblane massacre, coz it was a white man what did it.

AMK
xxx

unplug them

=^^=
.../\...

What is a furrenur? I hope it's not anything like a furry...
If I'm not mistaken, it's 'foreigner' in hillbilly spelling.

If I'm not mistaken, it's 'foreigner' in hillbilly spelling.

Oh good. *is relieved*

What is wrong with, "No thank you, don't call again," and closing the door?

Really, is it necessary to be an asshole?
When a stranger approaches me to tell me that I need to worship their God or be tortured for all eternity, I take that as a signal that they wish to communicate in Assholese, so I reply in kind.

When a stranger approaches me to tell me that I need to worship their God or be tortured for all eternity, I take that as a signal that they wish to communicate in Assholese, so I reply in kind.

At least Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin etc had the decency to kill their detractors. God tortures them for eternity. I know what I would prefer.
God < Pol Pot

AMK
xxx

For some reason, I tend to scare converters away. I have no idea why.

For some reason, I tend to scare converters away. I have no idea why.

It must be the beard. Many religious nuts are anti beard.

AMK
xxx

It must be the beard. Many religious nuts are anti beard.

AMK
xxx

Can't be that. I am clean shaven more often than not.:cool:

It does depend on where you live.

When you get at least five attempts a week to "Read the Bible with you to bring you the word of God", one's patience does wear a little thin.

This stopped only when I asked the group (three little old ladies and a twenty something man in a suit) if they actually knew how to read Aramaic.

After a few seconds of puzzled looks, I had to explain that unless they were going to read it in Aramaic, they were bringing me the 'word of the translator'.

They never came back.
*claps* Owning them with knowledge, that's the thing baby ;)

Anyway, I never get bothered by Jehova's and people like that, I think they tend to avoid my neighborhood like the plague because it's chokfull of extremist Evangelicals. They came here once, and I was so flabbergasted that I just accepted there pamflet and let them walk off. They just wanted to talk to my parents, too bad for me.
One other time, they came to my friends house where we were playing Unreal Tournament with some other friends over LAN. So just before we opened the door, we turned the volume on maximum, and when we opened the door the "HEADSHOOOT!!!" and "MULTI KILL!!!" thundered through the house. Those poor sods didn't know how fast they had to leave :p

Politely tell them they're not interested and close the door/walk away.

What is wrong with, "No thank you, don't call again," and closing the door?

Really, is it necessary to be an asshole?

^These.

Yea, but if you're nice, then that sends the signal that you are re-approachable. If you're an asshole, then they'll cross you off their list and assume that you're damned no matter what they try to do. :)

No, you're making an excuse to be a jackass toward them.

BY LAW if you politely tell them to leave you alone then they MUST do so otherwise it's trespassing and/or harassment. Mormon Missionaries have a strict rule about that. Tell them you're not interested and please don't come back, the will not return. It's that simple.

Now, I just know somebody will post something like

"But Neo B, I have a friend/cousin/brother-in-law/acquaintance/co-worker who has missionaries come to their door repeatedly even when they said not to!!! YOU LIE!"

My reaction: Know what missionaries are? As much as you may hate to hear this, they're HUMAN BEINGS which means that yes, they make mistakes sometimes. You can either handle it like a mature adult or you can take the juvenile approach. You can use it as an excuse to embellish the story or you can handle it in a constructive manner.

Don't expect much respect from people if you can't handle it like a decent person. It makes YOU look like an ass, not them.

When a stranger approaches me to tell me that I need to worship their God or be tortured for all eternity, I take that as a signal that they wish to communicate in Assholese, so I reply in kind.

A lot of you guys think that when you respond like a jerk or do something you think is really clever to "scare them away" that it somehow makes a deep and lasting impact on these guys.

Well I've talked to more Mormon missionaries than you've ever even dreamt of in conversation and I've heard stories. They encounter people like you each and every day and they can handle it just fine, thanks. They don't allow the rudeness of other people knock them down and things like Wilgrove's body outline on the porch are seen as silly and juvenile. Believe me, these guys have a lot more maturity and perspective than you give them credit for.

Mind you, the Missionaries NEVER, in any of these conversations I'm telling you about, speak ill about people, even people like yourself who pride themselves on being rude. They show a level of grace and tact that is way beyond what I've seen in this and many other threads like this one, so I know whom to take seriously and whom to just chuckle at.

Guess which is which?

What??
Imagine if you asked a gay guy to be straight or a straight guy to be gay?
Imagine if you asked a vegetarian to eat meat. Or vice versa.
If they got antsy you would deserve it.

Secondly. If a guy who is aetheist is an asshole, that does not confirm that all aetheists are assholes.
Some daft **** who happens to be muslim who straps a bomb to himself and blows up a bus in london doesnt mean that other muslims are daft cunts. He is a tit because he strapped a bomb to himself and blew up a bus full of folks.
A white guy who shoots a room full of people doesnt make all white guys murderers. It makes him one.

See my point? You are not a numpty because someone who happens to share a similar trait as you was also a numpty. Thats just ridiculous. That means that all white men are equally responsible for the Dunblane massacre, coz it was a white man what did it.

AMK
xxx

But it would seem people are quick to decide all missionaries are assholes if one or two were overbearing once...

But it would seem people are quick to decide all missionaries are assholes if one or two were overbearing once...
Because all missionairies are trying to do the same thing perhaps? I find the idea of missionaries revolting, it's some kind of cultural superiority-complex (you need our help). In history, missionaries have destroyed o so much. As much as they have intentions, you know what they say: 'The road to hell is paved with good intentions.' Maybe they're friendly folks, but I hate what they're doing, sometimes it makes me angry (especially when I look at history). I'm glad they're not here though, although I prefer to talk to them rather then pull jokes with them.

A lot of you guys think that when you respond like a jerk or do something you think is really clever to "scare them away" that it somehow makes a deep and lasting impact on these guys.

I do?

Funny, I didn't think I thought that.


Well I've talked to more Mormon missionaries than you've ever even dreamt of in conversation and I've heard stories. They encounter people like you each and every day and they can handle it just fine, thanks. They don't allow the rudeness of other people knock them down and things like Wilgrove's body outline on the porch are seen as silly and juvenile. Believe me, these guys have a lot more maturity and perspective than you give them credit for.

You're right. When somebody joyfully shares the news that I'm damned to an eternity of torture in a hell-dimension because an all-loving God doesn't like my personal philosophy of life (which, incidentally, they know nothing about), I should really give them more credit for being a mature individual with an adult perspective.


Mind you, the Missionaries NEVER, in any of these conversations I'm telling you about, speak ill about people, even people like yourself who pride themselves on being rude. They show a level of grace and tact that is way beyond what I've seen in this and many other threads like this one, so I know whom to take seriously and whom to just chuckle at.

Guess which is which?
It's amazing to me that you laugh at my policy of applying the Golden Rule.

I assume that missionaries would never be so crass and rude as to treat others in a manner that they themselves wouldn't want to be treated. So I treat them in the manner that they would like to be treated, as evidenced by their own behavior.

If you think that means I'm treating them rudely, then you must agree with me that their behavior is rude and inappropriate. If, on the other hand, you feel their behavior is not rude, then my response isn't rude either.

But it would seem people are quick to decide all missionaries are assholes if one or two were overbearing once...But they're Christians so they must be!:eek:

Just eat their pamflets and the like when they hand them over.

But it would seem people are quick to decide all missionaries are assholes if one or two were overbearing once...

I don't think its the attitudes of missionaries that people find universally abhorrent, more their assertion that our current way of believing is unsound and that we need saving. Sorry, but i'm happy thank you very much as I am and someone who is so arrogant as to assume they know what I need to save my soul more than I do deserves to be treated with disdain.

AMK
xxx

But it would seem people are quick to decide all missionaries are assholes if one or two were overbearing once...
I believe missionary work, and aggressive converting efforts, are rude. By definition, a person who is engaging in those behaviors is behaving in a rude manner (in my opinion).

It's like how I believe that picking one's nose and wiping it on somebody else's sleeve is rude. So yes, all people who pick their noses and wipe it on my sleeve are being rude, in my book.

wat u do is, when a JW or morman comes to the door. U say great ive been looking for a new religion for some time, tell me haow does ur religion feel about necrophelia

Or do what I once did. Invite them in to argue the toss for 4 hours, lend them a book, only to have them nick it and never return.

Because all missionairies are trying to do the same thing perhaps? I find the idea of missionaries revolting, it's some kind of cultural superiority-complex (you need our help). In history, missionaries have destroyed o so much. As much as they have intentions, you know what they say: 'The road to hell is paved with good intentions.' Maybe they're friendly folks, but I hate what they're doing, sometimes it makes me angry (especially when I look at history). I'm glad they're not here though, although I prefer to talk to them rather then pull jokes with them.

What have missionaries destroyed?


You're right. When somebody joyfully shares the news that I'm damned to an eternity of torture in a hell-dimension because an all-loving God doesn't like my personal philosophy of life (which, incidentally, they know nothing about), I should really give them more credit for being a mature individual with an adult perspective. <snip>

It's amazing to me that you laugh at my policy of applying the Golden Rule.


I don't think its the attitudes of missionaries that people find universally abhorrent, more their assertion that our current way of believing is unsound and that we need saving. Sorry, but i'm happy thank you very much as I am and someone who is so arrogant as to assume they know what I need to save my soul more than I do deserves to be treated with disdain.


Here's the problem, as I see it.

You guys are characterizing Missionary work as being some kind of message being sent that somehow you or your life is inferior and they're here to fix you.

This is not what's going through a Missionary's mind when he knocks on your door. (Mind you, I can only speak about what I know of Mormon missionaries. I don't know enough about other denominations to say but I suspect it's similar.) I assure you.

They don't look at your house and go "We must go knock on that door! There's a SINNER in there!!!!'

Rather, what they're doing is this:

They have something very, very special. That being an understanding of the Gospel. They want (and in act, are commanded by God) to offer it to other people.

Read that carefully. I said OFFER. Not force, not nag, not harass. Offer. They want to share with you something they love and keep sacred. If you don't want it, fine. Tell them and they're gone. It's really that simple. If you're interested, then they'd love to tell you all about it. You are NOT being judged. You are NOT being criticized.

I know how they feel. When I first converted I wanted to shout the grandeur of the Gospel from the rooftops. When I retire, I intend to become a missionary myself. (I wasn't one as a young man because I converted later in life.)

That's all there is to it.

They have something very, very special. That being an understanding of the Gospel. They want (and in act, are commanded by God) to offer it to other people.

Read that carefully. I said OFFER. Not force, not nag, not harass. Offer. They want to share with you something they love and keep sacred. If you don't want it, fine. Tell them and they're gone. It's really that simple. If you're interested, then they'd love to tell you all about it. You are NOT being judged. You are NOT being criticized.

I know how they feel. When I first converted I wanted to shout the grandeur of the Gospel from the rooftops. When I retire, I intend to become a missionary myself. (I wasn't one as a young man because I converted later in life.)

That's all there is to it.

Can you not see how being told by someone that what they have to offer will save you might be offensive. however benevolently it is offered, such a person is still in effect saying that what they have to offer is better than the life you have been leading without it and that to become a better person you should follow their lead.
In any other context that would be called arrogance.

AMK
xxx

Can you not see how being told by someone that what they have to offer will save you might be offensive. however benevolently it is offered, such a person is still in effect saying that what they have to offer is better than the life you have been leading without it and that to become a better person you should follow their lead.
In any other context that would be called arrogance.


If they knew you or knew about your life then maybe it would. But they know NOTHING about you, so how can they possibly be making a character judgment about you?

If you walk through a mall during the holiday season and some peddler tries to sell you a bottle of perfume, do you take it as a statement that you stink?

Does a commercial for a car on TV offend you as if suggesting that your car is junk?

My assumption about anyone who comes to my door trying to sell something, whether it is insurance or religion, is that they are either a con artist or that the product they are selling is so bad it cannot be sold any other way.

Here's the problem, as I see it.

You guys are characterizing Missionary work as being some kind of message being sent that somehow you or your life is inferior and they're here to fix you.

This is not what's going through a Missionary's mind when he knocks on your door. (Mind you, I can only speak about what I know of Mormon missionaries. I don't know enough about other denominations to say but I suspect it's similar.) I assure you.

They don't look at your house and go "We must go knock on that door! There's a SINNER in there!!!!'

Rather, what they're doing is this:

They have something very, very special. That being an understanding of the Gospel. They want (and in act, are commanded by God) to offer it to other people.

Read that carefully. I said OFFER. Not force, not nag, not harass. Offer. They want to share with you something they love and keep sacred. If you don't want it, fine. Tell them and they're gone. It's really that simple. If you're interested, then they'd love to tell you all about it. You are NOT being judged. You are NOT being criticized.

I hear what you are saying. I don't want you to think I'm tuning you out. I also have a very good friend from high school who went on mission trips many times. She is a WONDERFUL person, a very kind and decent woman, so please don't think that I assume all missionaries are bad people.

All that said:

The behavior is insulting and offensive more often than not. There is a reason why people are so annoyed with missionaries, and it's not because we're all bitter godless assholes who can't stand the beauty of your faith. It's because the BEHAVIOR of missionaries is frequently rude and insulting.

When you make an effort to understand that, and when you really put yourself in the shoes of the people you are "offering" your beliefs to, then perhaps you can start to understand why folks get so annoyed with missionaries.


I know how they feel. When I first converted I wanted to shout the grandeur of the Gospel from the rooftops. When I retire, I intend to become a missionary myself. (I wasn't one as a young man because I converted later in life.)

That's all there is to it.
I'm actually a pretty decent sort when it comes to others. I give people a lot of slack, all things considered, and I tend to keep my mouth shut in public when it comes to people's individual religious beliefs. I do this because I feel it's polite, and there's already enough rude people in the world. My services are not needed on that front.

However, if somebody CHOOSES to enter my space and make their personal beliefs my business, then I will respond in kind. Just like I do if somebody comes into my personal space and shares their beliefs about gays or immigrants or abortion or politics or taxes or good bands or movies or any other subject under the sun. I do not give special treatment to people who are talking about God.

That's what tends to get me branded as an asshole, most often. The fact that I don't treat people's enthusiasm for God any different than I treat somebody's fondness for Coldplay. Yes, new converts often want to scream their faith from the rooftops. The same is usually true of the kid who discovers Dane Cook for the first time. Coming into my home quoting Bible verses will get you treated exactly the same as any obnoxious kid who comes in and starts reciting Dane Cook's latest routine.

That's what annoys me about missionaries, really: the attitude that their beliefs are somehow more important than anybody else's beliefs, and that they should get to play by different rules. When I get phone calls telling me about the Wonderful Awesome News about the Comcast Triple Play, nobody gives me shit for hanging up on them, yet somehow I'm an asshole if I treat religious advertisers the same way. Frankly, I feel worse about mistreating telemarketer because they at least are just doing their job and trying to earn their pay...the religious folks usually aren't getting paid a cent, they're just harassing me because they want to harass me.

Read that carefully. I said OFFER. Not force, not nag, not harass. Offer. They want to share with you something they love and keep sacred.

Hmm, if I twist those words just a little bit, then direct them back... I could have fun with this line of thought :D

If they knew you or knew about your life then maybe it would. But they know NOTHING about you, so how can they possibly be making a character judgment about you?

If you walk through a mall during the holiday season and some peddler tries to sell you a bottle of perfume, do you take it as a statement that you stink?

Does a commercial for a car on TV offend you as if suggesting that your car is junk?
First of all, most commercials these days flat-out tell you that the car/clothes/food you currently have is crap, and if only you'd use their product then you would experience the FANTASTIC NEW AWESOMENESS!!!

But, to answer your question, no, it doesn't offend me, because I assume they are just trying to convince me to buy something that I don't actually want or need because it is profitable for them. Are you suggesting I should have the same attitude toward missionaries? Because I'm waaaaay ahead of you on that one.

I hear what you are saying. I don't want you to think I'm tuning you out. I also have a very good friend from high school who went on mission trips many times. She is a WONDERFUL person, a very kind and decent woman, so please don't think that I assume all missionaries are bad people.

All that said:

The behavior is insulting and offensive more often than not. There is a reason why people are so annoyed with missionaries, and it's not because we're all bitter godless assholes who can't stand the beauty of your faith. It's because the BEHAVIOR of missionaries is frequently rude and insulting.


When you say that last part, are you talking generally about the act of proselytizing, or are you thinking of specific instances where somebody got out of line?


When you make an effort to understand that, and when you really put yourself in the shoes of the people you are "offering" your beliefs to, then perhaps you can start to understand why folks get so annoyed with missionaries.


Don't forget, Mormons ain't the only missionaries out there. I've had Jehovah's Witnesses at my door, Some Baptist Bible study organization, etc. And considering how those groups view Mormons... They want to share their Gospel with me as much as they would with anyone else. Maybe I'm more understanding of them because of how many Mormon missionaries I know and am friends with.

But it's also because on some level I take it as a kindness that they're offering me something that they believe is great and wonderful. That's not a bad thing. I explain that I'm a Mormon, I'm not interested in exploring other options, but thanks very much for the free magazine (which will go into the trash after I close the door) and be safe out there.

I fail to find offense in that.


I'm actually a pretty decent sort when it comes to others. I give people a lot of slack, all things considered, and I tend to keep my mouth shut in public when it comes to people's individual religious beliefs. I do this because I feel it's polite, and there's already enough rude people in the world. My services are not needed on that front.

However, if somebody CHOOSES to enter my space and make their personal beliefs my business, then I will respond in kind. Just like I do if somebody comes into my personal space and shares their beliefs about gays or immigrants or abortion or politics or taxes or good bands or movies or any other subject under the sun. I do not give special treatment to people who are talking about God.


Ok, but let me ask you this... if I showed up at your door offering you free tickets to a concert Downtown (perhaps for a kind of music you hate) would your reaction to me be any different from what it would be if I were proselytizing for a religion? (I know in the next paragraph you strongly imply that it would be the same, I'm just asking to be clear.)


That's what tends to get me branded as an asshole, most often. The fact that I don't treat people's enthusiasm for God any different than I treat somebody's fondness for Coldplay. Yes, new converts often want to scream their faith from the rooftops. The same is usually true of the kid who discovers Dane Cook for the first time. Coming into my home quoting Bible verses will get you treated exactly the same as any obnoxious kid who comes in and starts reciting Dane Cook's latest routine.


This may or may not be important depending on what you were trying to convey, but they only come IN to your home if you let them :)


That's what annoys me about missionaries, really: the attitude that their beliefs are somehow more important than anybody else's beliefs, and that they should get to play by different rules. When I get phone calls telling me about the Wonderful Awesome News about the Comcast Triple Play, nobody gives me shit for hanging up on them, yet somehow I'm an asshole if I treat religious advertisers the same way. Frankly, I feel worse about mistreating telemarketer because they at least are just doing their job and trying to earn their pay...the religious folks usually aren't getting paid a cent, they're just harassing me because they want to harass me.

As much as I hate to say something un-nasty about telemarketers, I do think it's important to note that a telemarketer isn't calling to insult you over your existing TV setup any more than a missionary is there to put down your lifestyle. It really isn't about your existing lifestyle or TV setup. It's about what THEY have that they want to offer you.

Now I feel dirty for comparing missionaries to telemarketers. Ugh. Please don't make me do that again... I need a shower.

If they knew you or knew about your life then maybe it would. But they know NOTHING about you, so how can they possibly be making a character judgment about you?

That only makes it worse, they know nothing about my life, but they do know a way to make it better...

If you walk through a mall during the holiday season and some peddler tries to sell you a bottle of perfume, do you take it as a statement that you stink?

The guy at the mall trying to sell me something isnt in the same category, i went to the mall by choice, and malls are places where stuff gets sold.

If i went to religion-mall i wouldnt be offended by someone 'selling' me some religion.

Does a commercial for a car on TV offend you as if suggesting that your car is junk?

The tv-adds annoy me in the same way missionaries at my door annoy me, they both try to sell me something i don't need at a time i don't want to buy anything.

First of all, most commercials these days flat-out tell you that the car/clothes/food you currently have is crap, and if only you'd use their product then you would experience the FANTASTIC NEW AWESOMENESS!!!

But, to answer your question, no, it doesn't offend me, because I assume they are just trying to convince me to buy something that I don't actually want or need because it is profitable for them. Are you suggesting I should have the same attitude toward missionaries? Because I'm waaaaay ahead of you on that one.

Yes and no. It doesn't profit the missionary if you convert or anything... but I think we're covering this in the other posts so I'll leave it for there.

What have missionaries destroyed?
Lots and lots of native cultures all around the globe.

Rather, what they're doing is this:

They have something very, very special. That being an understanding of the Gospel. They want (and in act, are commanded by God) to offer it to other people.

Read that carefully. I said OFFER. Not force, not nag, not harass. Offer. They want to share with you something they love and keep sacred. If you don't want it, fine. Tell them and they're gone. It's really that simple. If you're interested, then they'd love to tell you all about it. You are NOT being judged. You are NOT being criticized.

I know how they feel. When I first converted I wanted to shout the grandeur of the Gospel from the rooftops. When I retire, I intend to become a missionary myself. (I wasn't one as a young man because I converted later in life.)

That's all there is to it.

What it's about, is that they think we miss something wich is vital in there eyes, and that we should "know" as well. They think they have a way of making my life better, without even knowing me. Jehova's are even worse, they feel like we poor poor lost sheeps should be saved before it's too late. I find that way of thinking completly revolting, the latter even worse.

That only makes it worse, they know nothing about my life, but they do know a way to make it better...


They don't know that it will. All they're doing is putting it out there so YOU can decide.

That's the part I think people are misreading. Missionaries aren't asserting that what they have is right for you right here, right now, right ever. They're just putting it out there. The rest is up to you.


The guy at the mall trying to sell me something isnt in the same category, i went to the mall by choice, and malls are places where stuff gets sold.

If i went to religion-mall i wouldnt be offended by someone 'selling' me some religion.


That's splitting hairs though. The point is that you're not taking the salesperson's effort to sell you perfume as a personal attack on your body odor.


The tv-adds annoy me in the same way missionaries at my door annoy me, they both try to sell me something i don't need at a time i don't want to buy anything.

So what do you do? Do you ignore the commercial or do you get mad at them for presuming to tell you your car sucks?

Lots and lots of native cultures all around the globe.


Mormon missionaries?


What it's about, is that they think we miss something wich is vital in there eyes, and that we should "know" as well. They think they have a way of making my life better, without even knowing me. Jehova's are even worse, they feel like we poor poor lost sheeps should be saved before it's too late. I find that way of thinking completly revolting.

Like I said just now:


They don't know that it will. All they're doing is putting it out there so YOU can decide.

That's the part I think people are misreading. Missionaries aren't asserting that what they have is right for you right here, right now, right ever. They're just putting it out there. The rest is up to you.

Mormon missionaries?
Maybe, but that's a pretty young religion, perhaps North American Indians. But I was talking about missionaries in general.

Like I said just now:
That's not how it looks from my point of view, they feel like I miss something in my life, and they think they know what that is and offer that to me. To me, that looks like a slight superiority complex, and Jehova's are even worse because they feel like I am a poor lost sheep that needs saving. I oppose the first, and find the latter absolutly revolting.

When you say that last part, are you talking generally about the act of proselytizing, or are you thinking of specific instances where somebody got out of line?

In my opinion, proselytizing is almost always out of line. It's possible to be polite while proselytizing, but it's very very difficult and most folks don't manage it.

It's kind of like having a productive, polite dinner conversation about abortion. It's POSSIBLE to do it, but I think we can all admit that it's pretty rare for folks to manage it. :P


Don't forget, Mormons ain't the only missionaries out there. I've had Jehovah's Witnesses at my door, Some Baptist Bible study organization, etc. And considering how those groups view Mormons... They want to share their Gospel with me as much as they would with anyone else. Maybe I'm more understanding of them because of how many Mormon missionaries I know and am friends with.

Of course. It makes sense that you would have lots to talk with them about, seeing as how you have chosen similar paths in life.


But it's also because on some level I take it as a kindness that they're offering me something that they believe is great and wonderful. That's not a bad thing. I explain that I'm a Mormon, I'm not interested in exploring other options, but thanks very much for the free magazine (which will go into the trash after I close the door) and be safe out there.

I fail to find offense in that.

That's lovely for you, but one of the great rules of life is that just because something doesn't offend YOU doesn't mean it's inoffensive to everyone.

I'm not offended by somebody saying, "The Christian God is a load of crap." Lots of other people ARE offended by that, though, right? I am able to understand that it is rude for me to walk up to a stranger and say, "Hey, did you know the Christian God is a load of crap?" even though that statement is not offensive TO ME.

To me, the idea that the Christian God doesn't exist is wonderful and uplifting and vastly, vastly happier than the idea of Him existing, yet I can understand that this "news" isn't happy or wonderful for everyone else. That's why I don't go around happily sharing my wonderful news about the non-existence of the Christian God...because I don't feel the need to be intentionally rude and disruptive simply because I'm happy about the Christian God being nonexistent.


Ok, but let me ask you this... if I showed up at your door offering you free tickets to a concert Downtown (perhaps for a kind of music you hate) would your reaction to me be any different from what it would be if I were proselytizing for a religion? (I know in the next paragraph you strongly imply that it would be the same, I'm just asking to be clear.)

My first reaction would be to mistrust the offer, since anything that seems too good to be true usually is. If I could confirm that you did, in fact, have tickets to a concert, and you did, in fact, want to give them to me for free (without me having to sign up for your annoying mailing list or buy your magazines or something), then I would proceed to determine if I wanted the tickets at all. If I did, I would accept them and thank you and send you on your way.


This may or may not be important depending on what you were trying to convey, but they only come IN to your home if you let them :)
Missionaries often come into my personal space without permission. Not my home, mind you, but they certainly seem to like coming into my "bubble" when I'm out in public. I'm not saying they don't have a right to do this, I'm simply saying that they are choosing to make themselves my problem, so they don't really get to bitch at me for responding to them.


As much as I hate to say something un-nasty about telemarketers, I do think it's important to note that a telemarketer isn't calling to insult you over your existing TV setup any more than a missionary is there to put down your lifestyle. It really isn't about your existing lifestyle or TV setup. It's about what THEY have that they want to offer you.

Right. Because, remember, they don't CARE what you have. They don't care if you're happy already. They don't care if you need or want what they have. They are trying to sell you something because THEY profit from selling you that thing. Not because YOU profit from it.

Which is precisely how I feel about missionaries. I know they want to sell me something. I know they don't give two shits about whether or not I'm already happy and content and doing great thank you very much. They want to sell me something because it profits them to sell it to me.


Now I feel dirty for comparing missionaries to telemarketers. Ugh. Please don't make me do that again... I need a shower.Heh. I worked (very briefly) as a telemarketer, so I have a lot of sympathy for them. It's a really lousy job.

I demand cookies if a missionary were to knock on my door, i seem to have a drought of them at the moment. more's the pity.

I demand cookies if a missionary were to knock on my door, i seem to have a drought of them at the moment. more's the pity.

Those Catholic cookies they hand out at Mass aren't up to much - the body of Christ could do with some chocolate chips.

If they knew you or knew about your life then maybe it would. But they know NOTHING about you, so how can they possibly be making a character judgment about you?

If you walk through a mall during the holiday season and some peddler tries to sell you a bottle of perfume, do you take it as a statement that you stink?

Does a commercial for a car on TV offend you as if suggesting that your car is junk?

If i am walking through a shopping centre I am in a place of commerce where advertisement is fair game.
If i buy a house, it has walls and doors to give me peace from whatever the outside world has to offer. Therefore anyone ringing my doorbell and offering something is assuming that I am missing what they have to offer and my life is not complete without it.
If i was to walk through a church and the priest tried to talk to me about religion then fair enough, thats what goes on in those places. Leave me alone in my home unless you know me and know that I relish the disturbance you have to offer (ie you are a friend of mine) Or you genuinely need help/assistance.
If a missionary came to my door and was bleeding profusely and needed help, i'd be happy to invite them in and help. If they subsequently left and said god bless you to me for helping them, i'd be perfectly happy and flattered at their gratitude, as that is to those people, a gratuity and is offered in peace and thanks. If, once i had patched them up, they started to try and convert me, i would reopen old wounds rather gleefully. There is a time and a place.

AMK
xxx

They don't know that it will. All they're doing is putting it out there so YOU can decide.

That's the part I think people are misreading. Missionaries aren't asserting that what they have is right for you right here, right now, right ever. They're just putting it out there. The rest is up to you.

It already is out there, shops sell a gazillion different 'holy' books, the internet has just as many religious sites and television has special networks for the religious types. In these heady days with printing presses, the internet, television, etc. I really can do without people trying to sell me stuff at my door.

That's splitting hairs though. The point is that you're not taking the salesperson's effort to sell you perfume as a personal attack on your body odor.

I would if he showed up uninvited at my door.

So what do you do? Do you ignore the commercial or do you get mad at them for presuming to tell you your car sucks?

I can ignore commercials because i'm not having to interupt what i'm doing to watch them. I choose to watch a network that has commercials.
When someone rings my doorbell i do have to interupt what i'm doing.

And on a sidenote, i own an Aston Martin v8 Vantage, i havent seen a car commercials with a genuinely better car yet. :)


I'll admit though, i've only had missionaries at my door twice, on different adresses, they didnt come again after i told them i wasnt interested. I do however see a group of JW's missionaries every day at the bus terminal, i've had to resort to my removal method i wrote down earlier in this thread (and earlier in another discussion between you and me about religion) on two seperate occasions so far. Like every other group of humans, the missionaries-group has a percentage of asshats in it, these are the ones that piss people of the most. You wont hear many complaint about the JW who hands you a leaflet on the street and leaves it at that.

Those Catholic cookies they hand out at Mass aren't up to much - the body of Christ could do with some chocolate chips.

Did you just watch the same Family Guy episode that I did a couple of hours ago?

Maybe, but that's a pretty young religion, perhaps North American Indians. But I was talking about missionaries in general.


Well like I said I can't speak for missionaries of other denominations. But you are making some assumptions here.


That's not how it looks from my point of view, they feel like I miss something in my life, and they think they know what that is and offer that to me. To me, that looks like a slight superiority complex, and Jehova's are even worse because they feel like I am a poor lost sheep that needs saving. I oppose the first, and find the latter absolutly revolting.

Then you're ascribing something to it that isn't there, and blaming them for it. Hardly fair.

In my opinion, proselytizing is almost always out of line. It's possible to be polite while proselytizing, but it's very very difficult and most folks don't manage it.

It's kind of like having a productive, polite dinner conversation about abortion. It's POSSIBLE to do it, but I think we can all admit that it's pretty rare for folks to manage it. :P


Can't argue with that last part, surely.


Of course. It makes sense that you would have lots to talk with them about, seeing as how you have chosen similar paths in life.


I agree with you, but I doubt they would ;)

(You've seen what other Christian denominations think of Mormons.)


That's lovely for you, but one of the great rules of life is that just because something doesn't offend YOU doesn't mean it's inoffensive to everyone.

I'm not offended by somebody saying, "The Christian God is a load of crap." Lots of other people ARE offended by that, though, right? I am able to understand that it is rude for me to walk up to a stranger and say, "Hey, did you know the Christian God is a load of crap?" even though that statement is not offensive TO ME.

To me, the idea that the Christian God doesn't exist is wonderful and uplifting and vastly, vastly happier than the idea of Him existing, yet I can understand that this "news" isn't happy or wonderful for everyone else. That's why I don't go around happily sharing my wonderful news about the non-existence of the Christian God...because I don't feel the need to be intentionally rude and disruptive simply because I'm happy about the Christian God being nonexistent.


After reading this I took a moment to imagine how I'd react if somebody came up to my door as a 'missionary' preaching some hypothetical 'Word of Atheism.' How would I react?

To be completely honest, it would have everything to do with the attitude of the person on my doorstep.

If some guy or woman in business attire and well groomed knocked on my door to talk about their beliefs in a Universe that has no deities, and spoke politely and plainly with a polite attitude, I wouldn't be offended, just mildly surprised. I'd say thanks but no thanks and that would be it.

On the other hand, if somebody showed up dressed like a slob and wanted me to accept the absence of God, especially if they were abrasive and nasty about it, I'd find it much less difficult to be pleasant.


My first reaction would be to mistrust the offer, since anything that seems too good to be true usually is. If I could confirm that you did, in fact, have tickets to a concert, and you did, in fact, want to give them to me for free (without me having to sign up for your annoying mailing list or buy your magazines or something), then I would proceed to determine if I wanted the tickets at all. If I did, I would accept them and thank you and send you on your way.


Ok which is probably what most people would do, I imagine. So my question is (And this isn't a gotcha or anything, I'm only asking in order to understand.) You said earlier that you would treat the religious guys exactly the same as anyone else, so why not react to the missionaries in the same way?


Missionaries often come into my personal space without permission. Not my home, mind you, but they certainly seem to like coming into my "bubble" when I'm out in public. I'm not saying they don't have a right to do this, I'm simply saying that they are choosing to make themselves my problem, so they don't really get to bitch at me for responding to them.


Yeah I can't speak to that point really. In my mind I'm visualizing you standing there with some proselytizer standing in your path waving a 'Watchtower' in your face. Is that how you mean?


Right. Because, remember, they don't CARE what you have. They don't care if you're happy already. They don't care if you need or want what they have. They are trying to sell you something because THEY profit from selling you that thing. Not because YOU profit from it.

Which is precisely how I feel about missionaries. I know they want to sell me something. I know they don't give two shits about whether or not I'm already happy and content and doing great thank you very much. They want to sell me something because it profits them to sell it to me.


But it doesn't profit the missionaries in the way you're thinking of. They don't get any money or reward from the Church for the number of converts that result from their mission. They do what they do because they receive the same spiritual blessings whether you convert or not.


Heh. I worked (very briefly) as a telemarketer, so I have a lot of sympathy for them. It's a really lousy job.

To be honest, I generally don't vent my frustration on the person at the call center for calling me. I ask them to pleas put me on their 'do not call' list and have a nice evening. It's when the same organization calls me repeatedly that I demand to talk to a manager. At this point I usually get hung up on but at least that's when they typically quit calling me.

Did you just watch the same Family Guy episode that I did a couple of hours ago?

I was watching Family Guy last night but it didn't have that joke in it.

I was watching Family Guy last night but it didn't have that joke in it.

Oh ok so you wouldn't be in Australia then?

If i am walking through a shopping centre I am in a place of commerce where advertisement is fair game.

<snip>

You don't seem to want to answer directly so I'll take that as a 'no' to my question, which is "Do you take it as a sign that you stink?"

Yet people regularly justify nastiness to missionaries on the grounds that they're personally offended that someone would insinuate that their life needs fixing. That's not consistent.

As to the rest of your post, the simple solution is a 'no tresspassing' or 'no soliciting' sign.

It already is out there, shops sell a gazillion different 'holy' books, the internet has just as many religious sites and television has special networks for the religious types. In these heady days with printing presses, the internet, television, etc. I really can do without people trying to sell me stuff at my door.


True, but most people don't bother looking either because they aren't aware of some of those resources or don't know to look.


I would if he showed up uninvited at my door.

Take it as a message that you stink?


I can ignore commercials because i'm not having to interupt what i'm doing to watch them. I choose to watch a network that has commercials.
When someone rings my doorbell i do have to interupt what i'm doing.


True, but is that so great an injury? They do make an effort not to go knocking during times people are typically at dinner.


And on a sidenote, i own an Aston Martin v8 Vantage, i havent seen a car commercials with a genuinely better car yet. :)


Sweet! :)


I'll admit though, i've only had missionaries at my door twice, on different adresses, they didnt come again after i told them i wasnt interested. I do however see a group of JW's missionaries every day at the bus terminal, i've had to resort to my removal method i wrote down earlier in this thread (and earlier in another discussion between you and me about religion) on two seperate occasions so far. Like every other group of humans, the missionaries-group has a percentage of asshats in it, these are the ones that piss people of the most. You wont hear many complaint about the JW who hands you a leaflet on the street and leaves it at that.

Yeah, my problem is that too often folks use those cases as a way to justify nastiness to ALL missionaries, even though they know that' snot how it is.

Well like I said I can't speak for missionaries of other denominations. But you are making some assumptions here.
Well I don't think it's strange to assume that in the early Mormon days, when the US was still young and expanding, they would also try to convery Indians (like all Christians).

Then you're ascribing something to it that isn't there, and blaming them for it. Hardly fair.

Then why are they offering it?? I don't have something they think I should have, so the offer it to me, why would they offer it if that wouldn't be the case?

A Mormon tried to talk to me about his religion and I answered by saying I was an Atheist. That conversation ended VERY quickly.

Oh ok so you wouldn't be in Australia then?

No, I am an agnostic when it comes to the existence of Australia

Well I don't think it's strange to assume that in the early Mormon days, when the US was still young and expanding, they would also try to convery Indians (like all Christians).


You said missionaries DESTROY stuff. (Your word, not mine.)


Then why are they offering it?? I don't have something they think I should have, so the offer it to me, why would they offer it if that wouldn't be the case?

In case you're interested. To interpret that as some kind of attack on you or your way of life is borderline paranoid.

True, but most people don't bother looking either because they aren't aware of some of those resources or don't know to look.

Thats obviously true.
I still don't want people at my door selling stuff though. :)

Take it as a message that you stink?

If someone goes through all the effort of coming to my house, they must think i really need their product, if this happens to be perfume, then yes, they must think i stink.

True, but is that so great an injury? They do make an effort not to go knocking during times people are typically at dinner.

It's annoying, i'm busy and i have to interupt that activity to go talk to someone at the door. Mind, i'm equally annoyed by any other type of door to door salesman.

Sweet! :)

Stupid speed limits ;)

Yeah, my problem is that too often folks use those cases as a way to justify nastiness to ALL missionaries, even though they know that' snot how it is.

Blaming a whole group for 1 perons actions is quite comon among humans, unfortunatly.

No, I am an agnostic when it comes to the existence of Australia

lol Righto I think the episode is from Season 7 or 8 called Boys do Cry, if you haven't seen it don't worry it is by no means the best.

You said missionaries DESTROY stuff. (Your word, not mine.)
Yea, indeed, cultures. North American, South American, Asian, Polynesian.

In case you're interested. To interpret that as some kind of attack on you or your way of life is borderline paranoid.
I never sad it was an attack of some sort. I sad I find it pretty arrogant that they think that I miss something wich is apperantly pretty important (because why else would they offer it?), and that they can offer me that because it implies (just implies) some kind of superiority. And it's even worse with Jehova's, because they even think I need to be saved, need salvation. Especially that I find pretty revolting. And in general, it's a way of thinking I oppose, thinking you know "the truth" and feel like offering it to people who apperantly, just don't know it yet. Again, looks like some sort of superiority complex.

You don't seem to want to answer directly so I'll take that as a 'no' to my question, which is "Do you take it as a sign that you stink?"

Yet people regularly justify nastiness to missionaries on the grounds that they're personally offended that someone would insinuate that their life needs fixing. That's not consistent.

As to the rest of your post, the simple solution is a 'no tresspassing' or 'no soliciting' sign.



I did answer your question, the answer was that the scenario you presented was not consistant enough with the scenario at hand as the deciding factor, being that you are in a place where either privacy or advertising is expected was relevant.
People who are offering you perfume are paid to do so. They are paid to do so to everyone they see.
It is a personal wish for missionaries to attend my house and talk about their belief. As you rightly said they are on no commission and any reward they recieve is purely notional to their own mind. Therefore it is their mind's desire to do so, they are not acting on behalf of a third party who has given them instructions to cover a set demographic.
Therefore i can forgive someone who is trying to earn a living by harassing people in the vendors place of work, however if that vendor came to my house and tried to sell to me, i would give them the same response I would to missionaries.
As I said before, when i bought a house, i bought one with walls and doors that close. That is all the signal I intend to give to the world that I do not wish to be disturbed for its benefit when I am in there. I will not place signage or the like, there should be no need to. I am not agoraphobic and welcome interaction with people. If i met someone who was a missionary through any other means I would value their friendship as much as I would anyone else's.
So in direct answer to your question, no, in that situation i realise they are trying to earn a living and they have to make approaches to everyone.
A missionary is not earning a living, they are purely trying to give "help". If i need help I ask for it. My point about being in a place of worship stands here.

AMK
xxx

As to the rest of your post, the simple solution is a 'no tresspassing' or 'no soliciting' sign.

Which really doesn't work for most of them. Like 'sales people' everywhere they assume that you have not heard the full spiel or that their particular brand of speil will sway you where others have not.

Yea, indeed, cultures. North American, South American, Asian, Polynesian.

Now we're going in circles. You know what I'm getting at and are dodging it.


I never sad it was an attack of some sort. I sad I find it pretty arrogant that they think that I miss something wich is apperantly pretty important (because why else would they offer it?), and that they can offer me that because it implies (just implies) some kind of superiority. And it's even worse with Jehova's, because they even think I need to be saved, need salvation. Especially that I find pretty revolting. And in general, it's a way of thinking I oppose, thinking you know "the truth" and feel like offering it to people who apperantly, just don't know it yet. Again, looks like some sort of superiority complex.

This is going in circles too. You want to believe it that way, be my guest. I keep telling you it's not about what they think of you but if you need to believe that don't let me stop you.

I did answer your question, the answer was that the scenario you presented was not consistant enough with the scenario at hand as the deciding factor, being that you are in a place where either privacy or advertising is expected was relevant.
<snip>


No, I do not think that you did. My question was on the reaction to the offer itself. I asked you a simple yes/no question, being that if someone tries to sell you perfume do you take it as them thinking you stink? Everything else that you keep wrapping around the question is irrelevant to what I'm getting at. Either willfully or not, you've missed the point.



As I said before, when i bought a house, i bought one with walls and doors that close. That is all the signal I intend to give to the world that I do not wish to be disturbed for its benefit when I am in there. I will not place signage or the like, there should be no need to.


Like it or not, we don't live in a culture where the mere act of purchasing a house is a signal to the world to stay away. You're constructing this whole scenario if a house being like a fortress complete with battlements and a moat and then criticizing missionaries for not seeing it that way.



I am not agoraphobic and welcome interaction with people. If i met someone who was a missionary through any other means I would value their friendship as much as I would anyone else's.
So in direct answer to your question, no, in that situation i realise they are trying to earn a living and they have to make approaches to everyone.
A missionary is not earning a living, they are purely trying to give "help". If i need help I ask for it. My point about being in a place of worship stands here.


Why then, would you take missionaries at your door as some kind of sign that they don't value your life or think you need fixing? That's the whole point behind the question with the perfume salesman.

Do you have such a sign? Have they continued to knock on your door?

Tried the sign. It doesn't work, unless you include the words:

Solicitation of any kind is forbidden.
Attempts at solitication will be considered trespassing.
Trespassers can be legally shot.
There will be no other warnings.

Which really doesn't work for most of them. Like 'sales people' everywhere they assume that you have not heard the full spiel or that their particular brand of speil will sway you where others have not.

Do you have such a sign? Have they continued to knock on your door?

"No thank you" has worked well for me... except against JW.

Those assholes came back five sundays in a row. I was polite the first sunday. They took it as a sign or something because they came back the next week.

The second week, I said "no thank you" and figured that was it. But no, they came back.

The third week, I was rather upset. I told them in no uncertain terms I was upset, They bothered me and not to come back.

They tried a fourth sunday. I told them I wasn't interested the first time, neither the second or the third time. So what made them think I was interested now? They had the gall to answer with "but you need Jesus..." that's when I slammed the door.

The fifth week, I answered with a phone in hand. I told them to get out and neve come back or I would be calling the police. They left me in peace for about a month.

Then they came back. I didn't answer the door. They still come once in a while, they get the silent treatment. I even go so far as look through the window, see who it is and leave them standing.

So, I concluded that JW are assholes and I will act accordingly with them. The others are polite enough to try only once.

Now we're going in circles. You know what I'm getting at and are dodging it.
That Mormon missionaries didn't do those things?
This is going in circles too. You want to believe it that way, be my guest. I keep telling you it's not about what they think of you but if you need to believe that don't let me stop you.
Then please explain me what missionaries are about, why will they even bé missionaries if they don't think they have something to offer they think I or others miss? What's with that urge to convert people then?
I'm glad Mormon missionaries are not like Jehova missionaries though.

That Mormon missionaries didn't do those things?

Correct.


Then please explain me what missionaries are about,


Have you been reading this thread at all?


why will they even bé missionaries if they don't think they have something to offer they think I or others miss?


I've answered this question a number of times, too.


What's with that urge to convert people then?


Answered that.


I'm glad Mormon missionaries are not like Jehova missionaries though.

Me too.

"No thank you" has worked well for me... except against JW.

Those assholes came back five sundays in a row. I was polite the first sunday. They took it as a sign or something because they came back the next week.

The second week, I said "no thank you" and figured that was it. But no, they came back.

The third week, I was rather upset. I told them in no uncertain terms I was upset, They bothered me and not to come back.

They tried a fourth sunday. I told them I wasn't interested the first time, neither the second or the third time. So what made them think I was interested now? They had the gall to answer with "but you need Jesus..." that's when I slammed the door.

The fifth week, I answered with a phone in hand. I told them to get out and neve come back or I would be calling the police. They left me in peace for about a month.

Then they came back. I didn't answer the door. They still come once in a while, they get the silent treatment. I even go so far as look through the window, see who it is and leave them standing.

So, I concluded that JW are assholes and I will act accordingly with them. The others are polite enough to try only once.

Answering the door with a pistol in your hand works wonders for getting people's undivided attention and compliance.

What is wrong with, "No thank you, don't call again," and closing the door?

Really, is it necessary to be an asshole?

No, but Wilgrove's suggestions are funny.

If a Jehovah's Witness comes to your door and says if you want to learn about the one true religion or whatever it is they say, be like,

"Yeah, I would love to, because I am in this church called Jehovah's Witness right now and it is retarded."

I put a sign on my door that says:
"We are having safe sex with the devil in this house, do not disturb!"
Works like a charm, and once when a telemarketer called me i simply shouted:
"JIHAD!! Try it, they hang up really quick! But now the CIA will be by my door soon :(

Answering the door with a pistol in your hand works wonders for getting people's undivided attention and compliance.

Same with a baseball bat but you don't see me bringing a bat-control argument where none exists.

Neo Bretonnia, I must ask.

What about the guys who knock on my door at 7 on a Saturday morning? This has been a repeat experience for me with missionaries (including, on one occasion, Mormons). And even further, when it hasn't happened to me, they've knocked on friends' doors fairly early, too, so it's not just isolated instances. They seem to do it as a matter of course.

I mean, I'm going to assume that these people, as adults, know that many people will be trying to sleep at that time. So I can only conclude that they know that they are being incredibly rude and just don't care. It seems to me to be basic common sense to at least wait until 10 at the earliest before going around, no?

Same with a baseball bat but you don't see me bringing a bat-control argument where none exists.

I believe the question was "how to stop converters". That's all I responded to.

I believe the question was "how to stop converters". That's all I responded to.

Yes, sure, and that's why you quoted my post and not the OP. Nice try, but no cigar.

"No thank you" has worked well for me... except against JW.

Those assholes came back five sundays in a row. I was polite the first sunday. They took it as a sign or something because they came back the next week.

The second week, I said "no thank you" and figured that was it. But no, they came back.

The third week, I was rather upset. I told them in no uncertain terms I was upset, They bothered me and not to come back.

They tried a fourth sunday. I told them I wasn't interested the first time, neither the second or the third time. So what made them think I was interested now? They had the gall to answer with "but you need Jesus..." that's when I slammed the door.

The fifth week, I answered with a phone in hand. I told them to get out and neve come back or I would be calling the police. They left me in peace for about a month.

Then they came back. I didn't answer the door. They still come once in a while, they get the silent treatment. I even go so far as look through the window, see who it is and leave them standing.

So, I concluded that JW are assholes and I will act accordingly with them. The others are polite enough to try only once.

Wait for a bit, then answer the door with an animal in hand and tell them they interrupted your ritual sacrifice to Baal.

Like it or not, we don't live in a culture where the mere act of purchasing a house is a signal to the world to stay away. You're constructing this whole scenario if a house being like a fortress complete with battlements and a moat and then criticizing missionaries for not seeing it that way.



Where I live, it is extremely rude to call at a person's home without a prior arrangement, even if you know that person well. This is basically the problem I have with door-to-door missionaries and salespeople alike - its an unwelcome intrusion into my private sphere where I have a reasonable expectation not to be interrupted. I usually turn them away politely and request that they don't call again and in fairness this is often successful, especially with the Mormons. However, some people (often JWs) are particularly pushy and will argue with me, put their feet in the door and even shout through the letter box. That's when i get arsy.

(Edit: I do have a sign saying no cold callers or junk mail - doesn't work :s)

I used to find it more difficult to be firm with people who appeared genuinely well intentioned and had a lot of long conversations on my door step. I find it disconcerting that some missionaries seem honestly to believe that I have never heard of their god or holy book before, have never noticed the churches, mosques, synagogues and temples that pepper this country and that I will actually be surprised to hear about their faith.

Persons who shout their faith in busy public places are neither here nor there to me - people can stop and listen if they choose to.

No, but Wilgrove's suggestions are funny.

Dyakovo, where have you been?

Neo Bretonnia, I must ask.

What about the guys who knock on my door at 7 on a Saturday morning? This has been a repeat experience for me with missionaries (including, on one occasion, Mormons). And even further, when it hasn't happened to me, they've knocked on friends' doors fairly early, too, so it's not just isolated instances. They seem to do it as a matter of course.

I mean, I'm going to assume that these people, as adults, know that many people will be trying to sleep at that time. So I can only conclude that they know that they are being incredibly rude and just don't care. It seems to me to be basic common sense to at least wait until 10 at the earliest before going around, no?

I agree, and am surprised to hear it happened. But then again, like I said before Missionaries are humans and they make mistakes. Hardly justification for painting them all with a broad brush, no?

Where I live, it is extremely rude to call at a person's home without a prior arrangement, even if you know that person well. This is basically the problem I have with door-to-door missionaries and salespeople alike - its an unwelcome intrusion into my private sphere where I have a reasonable expectation not to be interrupted.


Just out of curiosity, where is that?


I usually turn them away politely and request that they don't call again and in fairness this is often successful, especially with the Mormons. However, some people (often JWs) are particularly pushy and will argue with me, put their feet in the door and even shout through the letter box. That's when i get arsy.


Understandable. I'm kinda surprised to hear that. I wonder what goes through someone's head when they stick their foot in your door or shout through a mail slot... Do they really think this will make you more open to their message?


I used to find it more difficult to be firm with people who appeared genuinely well intentioned and had a lot of long conversations on my door step. I find it disconcerting that some missionaries seem honestly to believe that I have never heard of their god or holy book before, have never noticed the churches, mosques, synagogues and temples that pepper this country and that I will actually be surprised to hear about their faith.


You might be surprised at how many people haven't.


Persons who shout their faith in busy public places are neither here nor there to me - people can stop and listen if they choose to.

Agreed.

Correct.
Ok, I'de like to find out more about that, ofcourse. I'm glad if that's true.

Have you been reading this thread at all?
Yes, but it's still vague to me. Missionaries offer you something, wich you apperantly miss according to them. Why else would the offer it. That sounds pretty vital to me, because why would someone offer you something you won't need according to them, or have it already.

I've answered this question a number of times, too.
Can you please link to that then? I apperantly missed it

Answered that.
Same as above.

Answering the door with a pistol in your hand works wonders for getting people's undivided attention and compliance.

Hey Hotwife you got that church schedule and location for me so I can meet those converts you told us so much about?

Dyakovo, where have you been?

I've been rather busy with work. :(

I agree, and am surprised to hear it happened. But then again, like I said before Missionaries are humans and they make mistakes. Hardly justification for painting them all with a broad brush, no?


Well, I *generally* try to be somewhat polite. But all my recent experiences with Missionaries are quite early in the morning before I've even had coffee (or even before I intended to get out of bed), when I lack the ability or inclination to treat them well.

And I don't think "being human" covers it. Like I said, it's so obvious to me that you shouldn't be going door-to-door that early that I'd compare it to not running into a sleeping guy's room and blasting an airhorn in his ear. It's such basic common sense that you have to intentionally plan the rudeness to commit it. I have no respect for anybody who is so inconsiderate that they intend to wake people up just so they can get a few more doors in in a day.

Ok, I'de like to find out more about that, ofcourse. I'm glad if that's true.


When the Mormons first went out west the region was chaotic and violent, and a Missionary effort to the American Indian tribes would have been suicidal, although that's not to say there weren't clashes between settlers and tribes... That's a separate subject though.


Yes, but it's still vague to me. Missionaries offer you something, wich you apperantly miss according to them. Why else would the offer it.


Because they have no way of knowing what you need or want, so they offer it in the event that you do.


Can you please link to that then? I apperantly missed it
Same as above.

Just click back a couple pages. I've answered them enough times you should have no trouble finding any one of them.

I've been rather busy with work. :(

You n eed to get your priorities straight, brother. ;)

Well, I *generally* try to be somewhat polite. But all my recent experiences with Missionaries are quite early in the morning before I've even had coffee (or even before I intended to get out of bed), when I lack the ability or inclination to treat them well.

And I don't think "being human" covers it. Like I said, it's so obvious to me that you shouldn't be going door-to-door that early that I'd compare it to not running into a sleeping guy's room and blasting an airhorn in his ear. It's such basic common sense that you have to intentionally plan the rudeness to commit it. I have no respect for anybody who is so inconsiderate that they intend to wake people up just so they can get a few more doors in in a day.

I'm not making excuses for the guys who knock at 7AM, but bear in mind you're talking about people who are just beginning adulthood, who come from a place where 7 AM is sleeping in, and who may well have been just THAT clueless on this occasion.

THEM: Do you feel that your life is empty and without meaning?

This is often the opening question, and their entire schtick relies on the unspoken assumption that having a life that is empty or without meaning is both a bad thing, and not necessarily true.

In my experience, Christian converters are unaware that they're relying on unspoken assumptions (because it's never occurred to them to investigate any further than "Jesus said so"), so you can defeat them pretty quickly by discussing their points calmly without accepting their assumptions. They'll get very confused very quickly. They don't respond well to questions like:

How?
Why?
Is that bad?
Does it make any difference?

Just out of curiosity, where is that?



North West England

You n eed to get your priorities straight, brother. ;)



I'm not making excuses for the guys who knock at 7AM, but bear in mind you're talking about people who are just beginning adulthood, who come from a place where 7 AM is sleeping in, and who may well have been just THAT clueless on this occasion.

I dunno, I guess I just find it hard to believe anybody is THAT clueless. I don't think I was even that clueless when I started high school, and I'm not exactly the brightest guy out there.;) But wouldn't you expect that whoever organizes the missionary trips would at least tell them not to be rude and give some basic guidelines as to what that entails?

I mean, I know when I did canvassing work, they were very detailed on what we should or should not do, and, though much of it seemed obvious, I kinda understood it given that most people probably have dealt with early doorbells from these sorts of people.

THEM: Do you feel that your life is empty and without meaning?

This is often the opening question, and their entire schtick relies on the unspoken assumption that having a life that is empty or without meaning is both a bad thing, and not necessarily true.

In my experience, Christian converters are unaware that they're relying on unspoken assumptions (because it's never occurred to them to investigate any further than "Jesus said so"), so you can defeat them pretty quickly by discussing their points calmly without accepting their assumptions. They'll get very confused very quickly. They don't respond well to questions like:

How?
Why?
Is that bad?
Does it make any difference?

Oh, that does remind me of one of my favorite lines to use:
"Well, yes, my life is without some ordained meaning, but why on earth would that make it empty? I very much enjoy my life; every day is an opportunity to learn and for a new adventure!"

Alternatively, attack their monks with light cavalry. These units are resistant to conversion and close the gap quickly, allowing them to kill the monks before they can be converted.

I was positive when I saw the title that the thread was about how to stop people converting from your own religion, possibly in-game. That would also have been an interesting discussion. XD

I honestly thought it was about a technical device, probably science fiction related :)

North West England

Gotcha. Over here in the U.S. things are a lot more relaxed about approaching somebody's door, and that's where the LDS Church got started.

I dunno, I guess I just find it hard to believe anybody is THAT clueless. I don't think I was even that clueless when I started high school, and I'm not exactly the brightest guy out there.;) But wouldn't you expect that whoever organizes the missionary trips would at least tell them not to be rude and give some basic guidelines as to what that entails?

I mean, I know when I did canvassing work, they were very detailed on what we should or should not do, and, though much of it seemed obvious, I kinda understood it given that most people probably have dealt with early doorbells from these sorts of people.

Having never attended the Missionary Training I can't say with experience all the minutia of what they're taught, but I can say it's not normal to be out canvassing at 7 AM.

Alternatively, attack their monks with light cavalry. These units are resistant to conversion and close the gap quickly, allowing them to kill the monks before they can be converted.

The problem is they can counter with mounted Inquisitors and nobody ever expects that.

The problem is they can counter with mounted Inquisitors and nobody ever expects that.

Their chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise
Their two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
Their *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope
Their *four*...no... *Amongst* their weapons... Amongst their weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise....

:D

Their chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise
Their two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency
Their *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope
Their *four*...no... *Amongst* their weapons... Amongst their weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise....

:D

People must learn to embrace Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gldlyTjXk9A&hl=en

It's a multi-media age. Embrace it. :)

The problem is they can counter with mounted Inquisitors and nobody ever expects that.

True. The only way to counter both the monks and the mounted Inquisitors, I imagine, would be with camels. Takes a lot longer to take down the monks that way, though.

Yea, but if you're nice, then that sends the signal that you are re-approachable. If you're an asshole, then they'll cross you off their list and assume that you're damned no matter what they try to do. :)


That hasn't been my experience. A polite 'not interested' and they never come back.

When the Mormons first went out west the region was chaotic and violent, and a Missionary effort to the American Indian tribes would have been suicidal, although that's not to say there weren't clashes between settlers and tribes... That's a separate subject though.
Lots of folks didn't have any problem with doing that ;)

Because they have no way of knowing what you need or want, so they offer it in the event that you do.
What difference does that make? They ring, check if you miss something, then offer the thing they think you need. The last is where my problem lies.

Just click back a couple pages. I've answered them enough times you should have no trouble finding any one of them.
I asked to avoid misscommunication :)

True. The only way to counter both the monks and the mounted Inquisitors, I imagine, would be with camels. Takes a lot longer to take down the monks that way, though.

Camels are so stubborn though...

Lots of folks didn't have any problem with doing that ;)
What difference does that make? They ring, check if you miss something, then offer the thing they think you need. The last is where my problem lies.


This is the part I'd disagree with. They offer it, period. Whether you need it or not is for you to decide, not them.



I asked to avoid misscommunication :)

Always a good thing, but I've already typed the relevant answer enough times that I'm starting to feel like a CD with a scratch on it. Nothing personal.

Do you people honestly answer your door when you're not expecting someone? I know I don't.

I do the same with my phone.

No matter how many times I come in this thread, every time I look at the title I think it is about power converters.

Hey Hotwife you got that church schedule and location for me so I can meet those converts you told us so much about?

Come to the Sunday service at New Life Assembly of God Church in Sterling, Va.

You n eed to get your priorities straight, brother. ;)

I know, but unfortunately posting in NSG doesn't pay the bills.

Come to the Sunday service at New Life Assembly of God Church in Sterling, Va.

What time? And who should I be looking for? TG me the details if you want.

I know, but unfortunately posting in NSG doesn't pay the bills.

What the hell would you do that for?

What time? And who should I be looking for? TG me the details if you want.

What the hell would you do that for?

Look for Isaac Mulcahy (he's from Sandy, Utah).

So you can turn him in to your church...

Look for Isaac Mulcahy (he's from Sandy, Utah).

So you can turn him in to your church...

I promised not to do that, remember?

But that doesn't answer my question.

I don't know, I rather like having my house and there being electricity. :p

Wuss.

What the hell would you do that for?

I don't know, I rather like having my house and there being electricity. :p

What time? And who should I be looking for? TG me the details if you want.



What the hell would you do that for?

beats me, it's not like the estate agents actually care about you. or whoever the people are that are in charge of keeping the money you pay for where you live.
Sometimes i wish humans never left the trees, at least then they didn't have taxes or silly TV shows showing the same boring stuff over and over with the same witty dialogue with slightly different attractive people and where clearly anyone with a disability beyond being old is oddly cut out of the said drama, should the show be brave enough to do so, the character becomes a maniac trying to kill their loved ones.
sorry i went on a bit of a rant there, i couldn't help explain all the flaws of soaps or 'cool' TV shows.

beats me, it's not like the estate agents actually care about you. or whoever the people are that are in charge of keeping the money you pay for where you live.
Sometimes i wish humans never left the trees, at least then they didn't have taxes or silly TV shows showing the same boring stuff over and over with the same witty dialogue with slightly different attractive people and where clearly anyone with a disability beyond being old is oddly cut out of the said drama, should the show be brave enough to do so, the character becomes a maniac trying to kill their loved ones.
sorry i went on a bit of a rant there, i couldn't help explain all the flaws of soaps or 'cool' TV shows.

There's only one cool TV show.

BATTLESTAR GALACTICA

Wuss.

I know... :(

*hangs head in shame*

There's only one cool TV show.

BATTLESTAR GALACTICA

I just knew you were going to say that.
sadly i don't have a workable TV at the moment. at least not with me.

It's alright. I can help toughen you up. :reaches for a cattle prod:

Bring it on big boy! :D

There's only one cool TV show.

The Ultimate Fighter

Fixed

I know... :(

*hangs head in shame*

It's alright. I can help toughen you up. :reaches for a cattle prod:

I just knew you were going to say that.
sadly i don't have a workable TV at the moment. at least not with me.

Of course you knew I'd say that. Deep down, you know it to be the truth and that I am the hearalding angel of BSG.

But there is light, my friend. You can stream the episodes for free from scifi.com

Blasphemy!

Wouldn't be the first time I've been called a blasphemer.

Fixed

Blasphemy!

I like to thank them for their concern about my soul but that I am currently happy with my current set of beliefs. I only become a snarky asshole if they persist after I've tried to be polite.

My response to missionaries on my doorstep depends upon the mood I'm in and how pushy they are.

This is the part I'd disagree with. They offer it, period. Whether you need it or not is for you to decide, not them.
Then I simply don't understand why they would offer it in the first place.

Always a good thing, but I've already typed the relevant answer enough times that I'm starting to feel like a CD with a scratch on it. Nothing personal.
Just a link to the post will do :P (Yea I can't look it up atm, doing a WoW raid)

Then I simply don't understand why they would offer it in the first place.

For all t hose who ARE interested.


Just a link to the post will do :P (Yea I can't look it up atm, doing a WoW raid)

You have a WoW raid and I'm at work. I win. ;)

Might be a bit late, but I kind of like this approach :

http://russellsteapot.com/images/comics/2007/Image072.jpg

For all t hose who ARE interested.
But why would they be interested? I find it an odd concept really, the idea of offering conversion, I don't get the drive.
You have a WoW raid and I'm at work. I win. ;)
Touché, although I actually have to focus :D

But why would they be interested? I find it an odd concept really, the idea of offering conversion, I don't get the drive.


Ever been hungry but not sure what you want to eat, then somebody shows up and suggests something in particular, and suddenly you realize that yes, THAT would hit the spot perfectly?


Touché, although I actually have to focus :D

heh

Ever been hungry but not sure what you want to eat, then somebody shows up and suggests something in particular, and suddenly you realize that yes, THAT would hit the spot perfectly?
No not really, but I think I catch your drift, but does a missionare assumes then, because apperantly they're pretty busy, that that hungre exists? So to sad.

No not really, but I think I catch your drift, but does a missionare assumes then, because apperantly they're pretty busy, that that hungre exists? So to sad.

It does exist, otherwise their efforts would yield no fruit.

Might be a bit late, but I kind of like this approach :

{snip}

:D

I am so keeping that. You just made my day.

The way I deal with converters is to tell them that "I have important sodomy to attend to."

Kill them with knowledge.

They want to save "poor little me", I have a rather brief conversation about the total similarities in the major religions. They leave me fairly quickly, and what's better, they don't come back! I live near a Jehovas Witness temple, and they came once, and apparently was told to not go back.

(Mind you, when I was 15, I did their Bible study, simply because I was interested in knowing about religions.)