NationStates Jolt Archive

5 dead in stabbing spree in Akihabara

TOKYO -- Japanese public broadcaster NHK says the death toll from a midday stabbing spree in Tokyo has risen to five.

The deadly attack at lunchtime Sunday in the Akihabara district also injured 12 others, paralyzing shoppers with fear.

Police say they arrested a 25-year-old man at the scene.

Local news reports say the attacker grunted and roared as he slashed and stabbed his victims at random on a street crowded with shoppers.

Akihabara's electronics and video game district, known as Electric Town, is wildly popular with Japan's cyber-wise youth.

(Mainichi Japan) June 8, 2008

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/national/news/20080608p2a00m0na001000c.html

Remember boys and girls, only firearms result in mass killing rampages like this.

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/national/news/20080608p2a00m0na001000c.html

Remember boys and girls, only firearms result in mass killing rampages like this.
Yep.

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/national/news/20080608p2a00m0na001000c.html

Remember boys and girls, only firearms result in mass killing rampages like this.

Right. His rampage resulted in 5 dead and 12 injured. In Japan, in Tokyo, where pretty much the standard anywhere is they are packed in like sardines.

I'm pretty sure the average number of people dead in shooting rampages is above 20. This guy manages to up the average for people dead in stabbing rampages from 2 to 3. This guy was apparently the best damn knife-wielder ever.

Knives don't run out of ammo. *nods sagely*

Knives don't run out of ammo. *nods sagely*

But... they don't have ammo...
And what if you throw it...

*brain breaks*

But... they don't have ammo...
And what if you throw it...

*brain breaks*

Yay! I got another! *makes another hashmark on the side of the keyboard*

And how many would likely be dead if he had been wielding a gun instead, in crowded Tokyo?

And how many would likely be dead if he had been wielding a gun instead, in crowded Tokyo?
He was wielding a truck actually.
http://www.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/08_14.html

How many died from stabbing and how many died from running a moving truck into a crowded crosswalk I am not sure. Death toll was at 7 according to NHK news tonight.

Edit: More details: http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20080608x1.html

And how many would likely be dead if he had been wielding a gun instead, in crowded Tokyo?

Depends how many bullets it holds, how many reloads he had and whether anybody could beat his ass before he could do so.

He was wielding a truck actually.
http://www.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/08_14.html

How many died from stabbing and how many died from running a moving truck into a crowded crosswalk I am not sure. Death toll was at 7 according to NHK news tonight.

Edit: More details: http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20080608x1.html

It's a bit misleading to call it a mass stabbing when probably a significant portion of the carnage wasn't caused by a knife or other bladed weapon.

the solution to the crisis is the US invades and occupies japan.

Depends how many bullets it holds, how many reloads he had and whether anybody could beat his ass before he could do so.

I'd feel a lot braver against a guy with a knife than a guy with a gun.

I'd feel a lot braver against a guy with a knife than a guy with a gun.

Unless he's reloading the gun and/or if you had your own.

It's a bit misleading to call it a mass stabbing when probably a significant portion of the carnage wasn't caused by a knife or other bladed weapon.

Seems to me the truck did a good job knifing its way through the crowd...

He DID stab at people... just after he ran them over, you know, to make sure and all that.

Attention to detail. Gotta like that.

It's a bit misleading to call it a mass stabbing when probably a significant portion of the carnage wasn't caused by a knife or other bladed weapon.
He DID stab at people... just after he ran them over, you know, to make sure and all that.

Seems to me the truck did a good job knifing its way through the crowd...
5 minutes time in the penalty box for bad punning!

5 minutes time in the penalty box for bad punning!

To my shame I just could not stop myself....

I'd feel a lot braver against a guy with a knife than a guy with a gun.

But the problem is generally you'd have to be braver to start knifing people than shooting them, so it would almost balance out :p

Unless he's reloading the gun and/or if you had your own.

If I had ever owned my own gun, I'd be dead right now and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Also, depending on the type of gun being wielded, reloading might not give quite that big an opportunity for a counterattack. So instead of kicking his ass, I might just end up with a bullet through me at a closer range, having stupidly ran towards the shooter. No thanks, I'll take the opportunity to attempt to get out of the line of fire.

If I had ever owned my own gun, I'd be dead right now and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Also, depending on the type of gun being wielded, reloading might not give quite that big an opportunity for a counterattack. So instead of kicking his ass, I might just end up with a bullet through me at a closer range, having stupidly ran towards the shooter. No thanks, I'll take the opportunity to attempt to get out of the line of fire.

Go for the middle road and get yourself a collapsible baton. I have one I used to keep in my backpack. It has a much longer reach than a knife and if he has a gun, you can drop it and hope he slips on it when he's chasing you. :D

Go for the middle road and get yourself a collapsible baton. I have one I used to keep in my backpack. It has a much longer reach than a knife and if he has a gun, you can drop it and hope he slips on it when he's chasing you. :D

A friend of mine knows a guy with one of those. They sound pretty useful.

However, I doubt he'd be chasing me. Rather, the gunman would probably be shooting the idiots who had underestimated how quickly he could put another clip in his gun and tried to rush towards him intending to beat him up. Or they will have succeeded and he'll be receiving punches and kicks aplenty.

I'd feel a lot braver against a guy with a knife than a guy with a gun.
Fuck that...while getting shot is probably more painful than being stabbed, being stabbed seems more painful to me.
Go for the middle road and get yourself a collapsible baton. I have one I used to keep in my backpack. It has a much longer reach than a knife and if he has a gun, you can drop it and hope he slips on it when he's chasing you. :D

I prefer to keep a bag of caltrops on me *nod*. For the chasing and such, that is.

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/national/news/20080608p2a00m0na001000c.html

Remember boys and girls, only firearms result in mass killing rampages like this.
The U.K. has acted on that theory and prohibited carrying unnecessary knives. I understand you can be arrested for cleaning your fingernails in public if you use a knife blade to do it.

Fuck that...while getting shot is probably more painful than being stabbed, being stabbed seems more painful to me.
It's not which is going to hurt more. It's which weapon gives him the most advantage over me when I'm still 15 feet away. If I attack a guy with a gun, he could shoot me before I even touch him. A guy with a knife might throw the knife, but a knife moves a lot slower in the air than a bullet, and most people I would guess are more accurate with a gun than with a knife. Also, if he throws his knife, he is unarmed, while a guy with a gun can simply adjust his aim and shoot again. Against a guy with a knife, attacking him has a much greater chance of succeeding, since I can probably get close enough to at least try to kick him in the groin without getting killed.

Go for the middle road and get yourself a collapsible baton. I have one I used to keep in my backpack. It has a much longer reach than a knife and if he has a gun, you can drop it and hope he slips on it when he's chasing you. :D

Because all guns have a 5' range and thus it is necessary for gun men to chase you like in old Bugs Bunny cartoons.

Also, everyone should carry guns. Everyone knows a simple handgun generates a personal force field which deflects bullets from other guns.

Also, everyone should carry guns. Everyone knows a simple handgun generates a personal force field which deflects bullets from other guns.

Unless you intend to do illegal things with the gun, then it can sense it and switches off the force-field.

I'd feel a lot braver against a guy with a knife than a guy with a gun.

It's probably got something to do with the fact that people generally can't see if a gun is loaded and the fact that it's a ranged weapon. With knives, the wielder actually has to get close, and you can only hit one person at a time with it, which gives a fair opportunity for someone to rush and hit him with something hefty. A little harder to do that against those with modern firearms.

Unless you intend to do illegal things with the gun, then it can sense it and switches off the force-field.

Of course, why do you think we're always talking about having the safety on, for example?

I'd feel a lot braver against a guy with a knife than a guy with a gun.
You'd think so in an abstract way... But look at what the Saudi hijackers did on 9/11/2001. They managed to take over four airplanes, filled with plenty of able-bodied passengers, using a bunch of box cutters. The blades on those are minuscule. Yet, the passengers were more afraid of the terrorists with the box cutters than they were of the unknown fate that awaited them.

Knives don't run out of ammo. *nods sagely*

Ahem
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f20/daniel_toh/products/awesome_knife.jpg
G.R.A.D. .22 RS Knife gun. Holds 5 .22 cal bullets in a revolver type loader. Fires with every pull of the trigger on the handle. Kills people with class… first shoot, then cut to pieces, put in bags, dump in 4 corners of Singapore.

It's not which is going to hurt more. It's which weapon gives him the most advantage over me when I'm still 15 feet away. If I attack a guy with a gun, he could shoot me before I even touch him. A guy with a knife might throw the knife, but a knife moves a lot slower in the air than a bullet, and most people I would guess are more accurate with a gun than with a knife. Also, if he throws his knife, he is unarmed, while a guy with a gun can simply adjust his aim and shoot again. Against a guy with a knife, attacking him has a much greater chance of succeeding, since I can probably get close enough to at least try to kick him in the groin without getting killed.
In most situations where someone is attacked with a knife, they don't even know the weapon is present until it is sticking out of them, and considering that this guy apparently ran several people over before stabbing them, one's chances of kicking him in the groin while he approached were very low.

Ahem
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f20/daniel_toh/products/awesome_knife.jpg

thats my dream come true a knife gun. well that and a sword gun.

and considering that this guy apparently ran several people over before stabbing them, one's chances of kicking him in the groin while he approached were very low.

watch some more martial arts movies and then think again.

And how many would likely be dead if he had been wielding a gun instead, in crowded Tokyo?

When they run out of ammo. Clearly Dr Goofballs has stated the knives do not run out of ammo.

It's a bit misleading to call it a mass stabbing when probably a significant portion of the carnage wasn't caused by a knife or other bladed weapon.

When I saw it reported on TV and online, it was being carried as another mass stabbing...

The U.K. has acted on that theory and prohibited carrying unnecessary knives. I understand you can be arrested for cleaning your fingernails in public if you use a knife blade to do it.

Indeed.

Hmmm... it's still being reported as a stabbing rampage....

5 dead in stabbing spree in Akihabara
Paramedics give aid to a victim of the stabbing rampage in Akihabara in Tokyo's Chiyoda-ku, June 8, 2008. (Mainichi)
Paramedics give aid to a victim of the stabbing rampage in Akihabara in Tokyo's Chiyoda-ku, June 8, 2008. (Mainichi)

TOKYO -- Japanese public broadcaster NHK says the death toll from a midday stabbing spree in Tokyo has risen to five.

The deadly attack at lunchtime Sunday in the Akihabara district also injured 12 others, paralyzing shoppers with fear.

Police say they arrested a 25-year-old man at the scene.

Local news reports say the attacker grunted and roared as he slashed and stabbed his victims at random on a street crowded with shoppers.

Akihabara's electronics and video game district, known as Electric Town, is wildly popular with Japan's cyber-wise youth.

(Mainichi Japan) June 8, 2008

Original above

A man who police said "was tired of life" drove into a crowd of pedestrians Sunday and then went on a stabbing rampage in Tokyo's top electronics and video game district, killing seven people and wounding 10, authorities said.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=5022874

Seven dead in Tokyo stabbing frenzy
3 hours ago

TOKYO (AFP) — A man went on a stabbing spree Sunday in a Tokyo neighbourhood famed for comic-book subculture, killing at least seven people and leaving around a dozen injured in Japan's deadliest crime in years.

The assailant, who later told police he was "tired of living," drove a truck into a crowd of pedestrians shortly after noon in Tokyo's bustling Akihabara area before jumping out and stabbing strangers while screaming.

The assailant was identified as Tomohiro Kato, 25, from central Shizuoka prefecture. He first said he was a gangster before retracting his story.

"I came to Akihabara to kill people. It didn't matter whom I'd kill," he was quoted by Jiji Press as telling police.

Kato, bespectacled in a beige suit and black-and-white sneakers, was armed with a survival knife and duelled with a police officer who fought back with a baton.

By the time Kato finally dropped his knife with an officer's gun pointed at him, 17 people lay bloodied on the street of the crowded district, according to fire department and police officials.

Kato had blood running down the side of his face as he was taken into custody.

Jiji Press and other Japanese media said seven people were dead -- six men aged 19, 20, 29, 33, 47 and 74, and a 21-year-old woman.

The attack fell on the anniversary of the last incident of similar magnitude -- a stabbing frenzy that left eight children dead at a Japanese elementary school in 2001.

Ambulances with sirens blaring raced to the scene, where Kato's rented white Isuzu truck was abandoned with a shattered windshield on streets that were closed to traffic on a balmy Sunday afternoon.

Hundreds of stunned pedestrians stared from a distance as medical workers set up green plastic sheets in the middle of an intersection to ensure privacy as they gave emergency treatment.

"I was shocked to hear the news as I've visited this place quite often," said Wataru Amano, a 26-year-old truck driver who often visits Akihabara. "I could have been a target if I had been here a few hours ago."

"I'm afraid this will give a negative image of Akihabara, where people are coming from around the world," he said.

Akihabara is best known for major electronics stores and in recent years has mushroomed into a haven for Japanese subculture, pulling in tourists from home and abroad interested in comic books and video games.

Akihabara's attractions range from a museum of Japanese animation to cafés where waitresses dress as maids and video-game characters. It is also a major commuter hub.

"When I passed by, I saw a man collapsed on the street. He was stabbed in the chest and bleeding badly," one young woman said. "He was unconscious."

It was seven years to the day since a mentally disturbed man went on a rampage with a butcher's knife at the Ikeda elementary school in the posh suburbs of the western metropolis of Osaka.

Mamoru Takuma, who had an apparent grudge against children of the elites, stabbed to death eight youngsters.

At Takuma's sentencing, the judge called the killings "one of the most heinous cases in Japan's criminal history." Takuma was executed in 2004 at the age of 40.

The elementary school attack stunned Japan, which prides itself on its safety, and authorities moved to step up security at schools.

In another knifing spree, a man in 1999 drove into the main train station in the southwestern city of Shimonoseki and stabbed to death five people.

Japan tightly restricts guns. But in December last year, a licensed hunter with a vendetta barged into a private gym in the western town of Sasebo and shot dead two people
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hHMSMwBPvt3WON0pA4xcy1js2z_w

There's very little in the reporting I' ve seen that suggests a vehicle was the primary weapon...

thats my dream come true a knife gun. well that and a sword gun.

Come to the UK and have a poke around an old castle or museum of the Stuarts and the English Civil War: we've got sword guns aplenty (usually sabres with a one-shot flintlock pistol in the hilt).

You'd think so in an abstract way... But look at what the Saudi hijackers did on 9/11/2001. They managed to take over four airplanes, filled with plenty of able-bodied passengers, using a bunch of box cutters. The blades on those are minuscule. Yet, the passengers were more afraid of the terrorists with the box cutters than they were of the unknown fate that awaited them.

Possibly because before 9/11 nobody would have expected hijackers to use a plane as a missile? Notice that after passengers found out what was going to happen they fought back, downing one of the hijacked planes.

EDIT: also, if I remember correctly, the hijackers claimed to have a bomb

Hmmm... it's still being reported as a stabbing rampage....

Original above


http://www.abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=5022874


http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hHMSMwBPvt3WON0pA4xcy1js2z_w

There's very little in the reporting I' ve seen that suggests a vehicle was the primary weapon...

It wasn't the primary weapon, but it seems to have been helpful...

Tomohiro Kato drove a white two-ton rental truck into a crowd of pedestrians, running over at least three people and then emerging from the truck with a large knife, according to police and witnesses.
When Kato barreled into the street in his rental truck, it was crowded with pedestrians. Kato quickly got out of the truck with the knife and headed directly for one of the people he had run over, witnesses told reporters.

Kato "jumped on top of a man he had hit with his vehicle and stabbed him with a knife many times," one man told the Kyodo news agency.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/08/AR2008060800576.html?hpid=topnews

Personally, I think the body count would have been higher if he had used a gun. On the other hand, it should be noted that it seems that he gave up when the police pulled a gun on him.

"Tired of life" indeed...

There's very little in the reporting I' ve seen that suggests a vehicle was the primary weapon...

Maybe you missed this part...
The assailant, who later told police he was "tired of living," drove a truck into a crowd of pedestrians shortly after noon in Tokyo's bustling Akihabara area before jumping out and stabbing strangers while screaming.

is it just me or do these killing sprees always happen in summer?

and do I need to get charts out to compare murder rates between armed to the teeth citizens against those that are not

If they had CCW permits in Japan, and one had been there, this might have been stopped, without the need to send the police, just a paramedic.

is it just me or do these killing sprees always happen in summer?

and do I need to get charts out to compare murder rates between armed to the teeth citizens against those that are not

seems the Japaneses go crazy during the summer better station more US marines there.

If they had CCW permits in Japan, and one had been there, this might have been stopped, without the need to send the police, just a paramedic.

I doubt it. I mean, here about that kid that made a handmade explosive packed with nails and tossed it into a video store a few years ago? Japan doesn't have that many violent crimes, but when they do, the people involved generally attempt the highest body count possible. If you give people like that the ability to have guns, you'll just end up with some guy wasting all of his money on lots of guns and having a field day shooting up a bunch of people.

With how packed those types of places are, anyone who had a gun would probably end up hitting one of the dozens of civilians no doubt running around randomly trying to get by. Guns in places like that are pointless.

seems the Japaneses go crazy during the summer better station more US marines there.

The US had no justifcation to fight japan, they posed no threat. End the Occupation!

If you can't tell thats sarcasm, you need to be burned at the stake

The US had no justification to fight japan, they posed no threat. End the Occupation!

If you can't tell that's sarcasm, you need to be burned at the stake

Flame proof suit anyone?

thats my dream come true a knife gun. well that and a sword gun.

Sword guns (http://www.cs.utah.edu/~hal/pics/prague_137.jpg)

Why can't these "tired of life" morons save lots of time and just kill themselves without involving anyone else?

Too cowardly to take their own life?

Yay! I got another! *makes another hashmark on the side of the keyboard*How does you keyboard still work? Do you just have a pile of old, cut up, keyboards in your room?

Sword guns (http://www.cs.utah.edu/~hal/pics/prague_137.jpg)

It's kind of fancy, but I like this: http://brucebumpknives.com/images/brutus_8x10.jpg

Why can't these "tired of life" morons save lots of time and just kill themselves without involving anyone else?

Too cowardly to take their own life?

I think many of them do.
shame really, waste of food went into them then they go and kill other people, where's the logic in that eh?

It's kind of fancy, but I like this: http://brucebumpknives.com/images/brutus_8x10.jpg

:eek: Me. want. NOW!

So, apparently this guy was a video game nerd, and he trained to murder in Tales of Destiny and Gran Turismo. I'm amazed that this isn't in every news article.

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/national/news/20080608p2a00m0na001000c.html

Remember boys and girls, only firearms result in mass killing rampages like this.

False dichotomy - even if the stabbing were a 'true' claim.

Let's compare recent gun massacres in... say... the US... you can kill people other ways... it's justa hell of a lot easier with a machine designed solely for the purpose of making messy holes in people.

So, apparently this guy was a video game nerd, and he trained to murder in Tales of Destiny and Gran Turismo. I'm amazed that this isn't in every news article.

what?
how does gran Turismo even remotley teach you somethign like this? I mean I don't know that much about drivivng games, but if anything, I'd think something even remotley like this might be burnout

Too cowardly to take their own life?

are you taunting the mentally unstable? :eek:

what?
how does gran Turismo even remotley teach you somethign like this? I mean I don't know that much about drivivng games, but if anything, I'd think something even remotley like this might be burnout

well naturally driving round the same tracks doing the same cups over and over so you get enough money made him realize that this was pretty much his life anyway...

er...actually I remember hearing that people who do take long drives (truckers etc) suffer from high levels of depressions because when your driving you tend to sit there and think which is bad because our minds are inherently emo (which is why you will play things you regret over and over in your head)

are you taunting the mentally unstable? :eek:


well naturally driving round the same tracks doing the same cups over and over so you get enough money made him realize that this was pretty much his life anyway...
er...actually I remember hearing that people who do take long drives (truckers etc) suffer from high levels of depressions because when your driving you tend to sit there and think

You're following me aren't you? i can sense it.
*mumbles into earpiece* "code blue, code blue ready the swat teams".
Ah i'm sure LG would have something to say about taunting mentally unstable people, i'm also sure it would involve tacos or pies.
I also heard that farmers have a higher rate of depression than almost any other job occupation because of the lonliness, but i haven't heard of any going on a mass killing spree, i guess they can kick the nearby animals or something as a defence mechanism, uh displacement i think it's called.
yay, psychology can be useful!
:)

:eek: Me. want. NOW!

I think that was a custom order. Just like this one:

http://www.brucebumpknives.com/images/bump-pistol-knife01-w.jpg

http://www.brucebumpknives.com/images/bump-pistol-knife05-w.jpg

Why can't these "tired of life" morons save lots of time and just kill themselves without involving anyone else?

Too cowardly to take their own life?
A few months ago a 18-year-old kid pushed a man in front of an arriving train here too, he said all he wanted was to go to jail and figured that killing someone would do the trick.

To NERVUN; that guy sounds messed up, who'd want to go to jail?

To OP i found another source, which i believe is the same incident to the one you described and has more information. sorry if someone else has already brought this up.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7442327.stm
this says seven people are dead and 10 other injured.

more sword Guns NOW!!!

more sword Guns NOW!!!

You can't say that in a thread about people dieing, whatever will people think?
that killing sprees are okay so long as certain people have shiny looking tools they'l never use?

Why can't these "tired of life" morons save lots of time and just kill themselves without involving anyone else?

Too cowardly to take their own life?
It is better to go out spitting in the face of society than to quietly retire in darkness.
Unfortunately, society is made up of people, and when people start killing each other things become quite sad and a not a little messy.

Ahem
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f20/daniel_toh/products/awesome_knife.jpg

...

What the...IT'S A BLOODY GUNBLADE...sort of...

You can't say that in a thread about people dieing, whatever will people think?
that killing sprees are okay so long as certain people have shiny looking tools they'l never use?

that I am a mad man who wants to combine swords with guns to compensate for the weaknesses of both.

that I am a mad man who wants to combine swords with guns to compensate for the weaknesses of both.
Ah, so the Marine Corps isn't good enough for you now?

er...actually I remember hearing that people who do take long drives (truckers etc) suffer from high levels of depressions because when your driving you tend to sit there and think which is bad because our minds are inherently emo (which is why you will play things you regret over and over in your head)

Weekends suck, there's always time to think on weekends :(

Right. His rampage resulted in 5 dead and 12 injured. In Japan, in Tokyo, where pretty much the standard anywhere is they are packed in like sardines.

I'm pretty sure the average number of people dead in shooting rampages is above 20. This guy manages to up the average for people dead in stabbing rampages from 2 to 3. This guy was apparently the best damn knife-wielder ever.

Average gun rampage? Where'd you get twenty? Link please.

Best knife-wielder ever? Doubtful.

You'd think so in an abstract way... But look at what the Saudi hijackers did on 9/11/2001. They managed to take over four airplanes, filled with plenty of able-bodied passengers, using a bunch of box cutters. The blades on those are minuscule. Yet, the passengers were more afraid of the terrorists with the box cutters than they were of the unknown fate that awaited them. pussy ass americans...

I think that was a custom order. Just like this one:

http://www.brucebumpknives.com/images/bump-pistol-knife01-w.jpg

http://www.brucebumpknives.com/images/bump-pistol-knife05-w.jpg

http://www.narutomania.com/gallery/data/1117/house-do-want_thumbnail.jpg

Sword guns (http://www.cs.utah.edu/~hal/pics/prague_137.jpg)

http://www.chibianj.com/shopping/media/collectibles/figure/2919.gif

Sword Guns ;)

Unless he's reloading the gun and/or if you had your own.

If he's pointing a gun at me he can shoot me dead before I can draw. If he's pointing a KNIFE at me I'm more likely to be able to outrun him, and besides I'm confident that I have a better than 60% chance of being able to disarm him (the other 40% is mainly the possibility that he might actually know how to use the bloody thing).

Why can't these "tired of life" morons save lots of time and just kill themselves without involving anyone else?

Too cowardly to take their own life?

They want company.

I'd feel a lot braver against a guy with a knife than a guy with a gun.

uh, for me it would depend on the size of the knife and how he was wielding it.

flame

Over reaction much?

Over reaction much?

write in english much?

write in english much?

If you want to criticize peoples English learn to use these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_letters).

Knives kill people. We must ban them immediately. We can replace them with guns which are much safer and more versatile.

...and you can shut your bitch ass face any time you want.

Not going to last long here if you can't learn to insult people with a bit more subtlety. Nobody is impressed with internet tough guys.

Honsria, calm down.

Karalk is pretty damn right. A lot of us Americans are to the point where we'd rather lay down and be walked on than actually stand up for something.

Then again, remember the guys who "landed" in Pennsylvania. They were Americans. So I think its wrong to make that generalization.

As for the guns thing, yes, if he had a firearm in a crowded place, kill count could be higher. Of course, you also assume he'd be the only one with a gun, but I disagree. I believe, if Japan had RTC, there would be individuals who would ALSO carry, and not with the intent to go on a rampage. These individuals would have had an opportunity to stop him, the mass amounts of people providing the concealment they need to draw their weapon: the perpetrator can't watch/stab/run over everyone at once, you know.

Honsria, calm down.

Karalk is pretty damn right. A lot of us Americans are to the point where we'd rather lay down and be walked on than actually stand up for something.

Then again, remember the guys who "landed" in Pennsylvania. They were Americans. So I think its wrong to make that generalization.

As for the guns thing, yes, if he had a firearm in a crowded place, kill count could be higher. Of course, you also assume he'd be the only one with a gun, but I disagree. I believe, if Japan had RTC, there would be individuals who would ALSO carry, and not with the intent to go on a rampage. These individuals would have had an opportunity to stop him, the mass amounts of people providing the concealment they need to draw their weapon: the perpetrator can't watch/stab/run over everyone at once, you know.

Yes, other people firing guns in a crowded area would have helped the situation :rolleyes:

Yes, other people firing guns in a crowded area would have helped the situation :rolleyes:

Its easy to tell who the perp is, and the individual carrying only needs to be a decent shot using ammunition that will not overpenetrate the target(IE 9mm Hollow point, .38 Hollow Point, .45 ACP) and the issue can be resolved rather quickly with few casualties than if the perp were to be unopposed.

Its easy to tell who the perp is, and the individual carrying only needs to be a decent shot using ammunition that will not overpenetrate the target(IE 9mm Hollow point, .38 Hollow Point, .45 ACP) and the issue can be resolved rather quickly with few casualties than if the perp were to be unopposed.
Ignoring the magic All-Purpose-CCP man that supposedly springs out of nowhere to stop this from happening, you've never been to Akihabara have you?

Ignoring the magic All-Purpose-CCP man that supposedly springs out of nowhere to stop this from happening, you've never been to Akihabara have you?
No, I haven't. But I'd make the assumption that the guy stabbing people, hitting them with a truck, or shooting them was the perp...

And he doesn't spring out of no where, he's an average every day citizen who carries because he feels he needs to, and in this case, he'd need to. And obviously no course of action would be perfect, especially not in a crowded area, but I think having someone fire back(accurately) would severely limit the perp's ability to cause as much damage as they'd want to.

Also, everyone should carry guns. Everyone knows a simple handgun generates a personal force field which deflects bullets from other guns.

Just like Luke's lightsaber vs. the Stormtroopers' guns!

(Sorry if this has already been posted; I'm on page 2 and I just couldn't wait to post this)

Didn't he kill more people with the truck than with the knife?

Didn't he kill more people with the truck than with the knife?

Mostly injured, it seems.

Didn't he kill more people with the truck than with the knife?

Aye...that part has been beaten to death though.

And obviously no course of action would be perfect, especially not in a crowded area, but I think having someone fire back(accurately) would severely limit the perp's ability to cause as much damage as they'd want to.
In this case, someone with a black belt in some form of martial arts would have been just as effective and less likely to hurt innocent bystanders.

Mostly injured, it seems.

Ì'm glad for any less deaths, I really didn't know. Insanity.

In this case, someone with a black belt in some form of martial arts would have been just as effective and less likely to hurt innocent bystanders.

And I also advocate unarmed self-defense, because you can't always be packin' heat, and, like in this situation, it may not always be the best option to draw and start a firefight.

I'll admit I hadn't thought of that in this case, but at least that means I'm not being stereotypical, right? ;)

If you want to criticize peoples English learn to use these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_letters).

If you want to be a critic of the criticism of other people, learn to use an apostrophe.:headbang::headbang:

but I think having someone fire back(accurately) would severely limit the perp's ability to cause as much damage as they'd want to.

And how many people do you know off who can fire accurately at a moving target in a mass confusion area where a lot of innocent bystanders are constantly getting in your line of sight hmm? Is Mr CCP also a member of the SAS?

I'll admit I hadn't thought of that in this case, but at least that means I'm not being stereotypical, right? ;)
Really, it stands to reason that Japanese schools would offer Judo or Aikido at least. Nonetheless, even if that is the case, usually no hero magically appears, even if it is possible in theory. And the same goes regardless whether the hero knows martial arts or simply carries a gun.

And how many people do you know off who can fire accurately at a moving target in a mass confusion area where a lot of innocent bystanders are constantly getting in your line of sight hmm? Is Mr CCP also a member of the SAS?

At least five, actually. And not SAS, no.

And actually, heroes often do, but the stories are suppressed by the media.

You know when the sniper ascended Texas University's water tower and started firing, the cops actually credited civilians with providing cover fire so that they could approach? Hell, one professor even fired from his room at the guy.(yes, I know he was not in a crowded area, and he was farther away, but I'm indicating that people still rise to the occasion)

Also, a man in Nevada entered a restaurant, opened fire, and was gunned down by a CCL holding civilian. Casualty count? 2. The original gunman, and one other restaurant goer.

In Pearl, Mississippi, there was a school shooting. the vice principal retrieved his weapon from his vehicle(parked a quarter mile from the school as law permits) and subdued the shooter.

A 12 year old boy successfully defended his mother, who had cancer, from two attempted robbers that were going for her morphine. He used a 12 gauge shotgun.

No, I haven't. But I'd make the assumption that the guy stabbing people, hitting them with a truck, or shooting them was the perp...
Then you have no bloody idea of the conditions in Tokyo where this took place, the number of people in the area, and the general strangeness that IS Akihabara.

In other words, you fail, badly.

And he doesn't spring out of no where, he's an average every day citizen who carries because he feels he needs to, and in this case, he'd need to. And obviously no course of action would be perfect, especially not in a crowded area, but I think having someone fire back(accurately) would severely limit the perp's ability to cause as much damage as they'd want to.
Yes, just like they have in so many shootings in the US like the recent example in Florida, Columbine, VT, etc, etc, etc.

By the way, Japan is not the United States, in case you have forgotten.

You'd think so in an abstract way... But look at what the Saudi hijackers did on 9/11/2001. They managed to take over four airplanes, filled with plenty of able-bodied passengers, using a bunch of box cutters. The blades on those are minuscule. Yet, the passengers were more afraid of the terrorists with the box cutters than they were of the unknown fate that awaited them.

Makes sense.
Immediate Death vs. Possible Death or something bad in the Future.

I'll pick the second one any day.

And even though those box cutters were intimidating, I'm sure guns would have been moreso.

At least five, actually. And not SAS, no.

None of your listed examples even begin to fulfill the conditions of accurate fire by CCP carriers in a crowded area where people are running everywhere when the shooting begins.

None of your listed examples even begin to fulfill the conditions of accurate fire by CCP carriers in a crowded area where people are running everywhere.

What if we have people carrying concealed knives?
I think they are more accurate and less likely to cause collateral damage.

Maybe even swords. Concealed shortswords.

None of your listed examples even begin to fulfill the conditions of accurate fire by CCP carriers in a crowded area where people are running everywhere when the shooting begins.

Those weren't examples of skilled shooters. those were examples of situations where someone has risen to the need of the people.

I agree that a firearm would have been a poor choice in that situation, have you not read anything after the quote? unarmed self-defense, or even stabbing the SOB, would have been a better option. Then again, he stopped when a gun was just pointed at him, not fired. Who said you'd need to fire to stop him?

Then you have no bloody idea of the conditions in Tokyo where this took place, the number of people in the area, and the general strangeness that IS Akihabara.

In other words, you fail, badly.


Yes, just like they have in so many shootings in the US like the recent example in Florida, Columbine, VT, etc, etc, etc.

By the way, Japan is not the United States, in case you have forgotten.


Actually, you fail

Columbine and Virginia Tech are schools. You are prohibited by law from having a firearm in a school or on its campus. No one could stop them because everyone besides the perp was following the law

Which got more people killed.

Those weren't examples of skilled shooters. those were examples of situations where someone has risen to the need of the people.


Then you admit you were giving examples that didn't fit with the idea you proposed as a solution. Namely:


I think having someone fire back(accurately) would severely limit the perp's ability to cause as much damage as they'd want to.



I agree that a firearm would have been a poor choice in that situation, have you not read anything after the quote?


I did, but you did respond in a way that left few other interpretations.


Who said you'd need to fire to stop him?

You did.


I think having someone fire back(accurately) would severely limit the perp's ability to cause as much damage as they'd want to.

this man was armed with a knife and a truck.

You just described about a third of the population of the United States.

Then you admit you were giving examples that didn't fit with the idea you proposed as a solution. Namely:






I did, but you did respond in a way that left few other interpretations.



You did.
That's if he was firing. This man was armed with a knife and a truck. He was stopped by an officer pointing a gun at him.

that sucks:(

that sucks:(

You bring new meaning to the word "understatement"

And I mean that in a nice way, not an asshole way. It really does suck.

Actually, you fail
Nope, you STILL don't know about Akihabara, you STILL have no clue about conditions there on that Sunday, you STILL show ignorance of Japan and the situation.

[QUOTE]Columbine and Virginia Tech are schools. You are prohibited by law from having a firearm in a school or on its campus. No one could stop them because everyone besides the perp was following the law
And that nice to-do in a Florida Wendy's? Which IS in a right to carry state, which HAS CCPs that are easy to get and IS the stand your ground law poster child...

Oops... looks like no one showed up there.

Oh, and Nevada just had a shooting in a bar and Nevada does indeed have very liberal carry laws as well. Nope, no one showed up there.

For every instance of someone with a CCP showing up, I can easily name 5 where no one did.

Nope, you STILL don't know about Akihabara, you STILL have no clue about conditions there on that Sunday, you STILL show ignorance of Japan and the situation.

[QUOTE]Columbine and Virginia Tech are schools. You are prohibited by law from having a firearm in a school or on its campus. No one could stop them because everyone besides the perp was following the law
And that nice to-do in a Florida Wendy's? Which IS in a right to carry state, which HAS CCPs that are easy to get and IS the stand your ground law poster child...

Oops... looks like no one showed up there.

Oh, and Nevada just had a shooting in a bar and Nevada does indeed have very liberal carry laws as well. Nope, no one showed up there.

For every instance of someone with a CCP showing up, I can easily name 5 where no one did.

Actually, I mentioned the Nevada bar shooting. A man did step in there. he killed the perp. A CCL carrier will not ALWAYS be around. that part comes down to luck, who's in the right place at the right time. And yes, I realize I'm ignorant of Japan, I've admitted that firing in the specific situation on Sunday would be wrong. You're just arguing a point that I've conceded...which makes very little sense.

And mayhap to rectify the situations where no one came to help...more people should get CCLs, hmm? Cause in situations they do show up, they help...and if it saves even one life, its worth it, right? ;)

Maybe even swords. Concealed shortswords.
Japan is very, very strict on swords. You cannot conceal them, nor can you take them out in public unless they are wrapped tightly, you are a martial artist whose school requires the use of a sword, and you have a permit from the National Police Agency to do so.

Actually, I mentioned the Nevada bar shooting. A man did step in there. he killed the perp.
Oh? Did he (http://www.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080603/NEWS01/806030354/1004/NEWS01) now (http://www.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080608/NEWS/806080372/1321/NEWS)? Don't look like it to me.

A CCL carrier will not ALWAYS be around. that part comes down to luck, who's in the right place at the right time. And yes, I realize I'm ignorant of Japan, I've admitted that firing in the specific situation on Sunday would be wrong. You're just arguing a point that I've conceded...which makes very little sense.
At least you admit that you have no point then.

And mayhap to rectify the situations where no one came to help...more people should get CCLs, hmm? Cause in situations they do show up, they help...and if it saves even one life, its worth it, right? ;)
Why not get more police? They do more.

Oh? Did he (http://www.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080603/NEWS01/806030354/1004/NEWS01) now (http://www.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080608/NEWS/806080372/1321/NEWS)? Don't look like it to me.


At least you admit that you have no point then.


Why not get more police? They do more.
You've been arguing a point I conceded....so aren't you the one with no point? I've just been defending.

Oh, and we're discussing two different bar shootings. There was another one in which a man with a CCL stepped in.

And I don't know about Japan(obviously), but in the U.S., the police are not there to defend you, as ruled many times by the United States Supreme Court

Japan is very, very strict on swords. You cannot conceal them, nor can you take them out in public unless they are wrapped tightly, you are a martial artist whose school requires the use of a sword, and you have a permit from the National Police Agency to do so.

Interesting. I thought they would be more understanding about the sword. Though I suppose they wouldn't want just any individual weilding a sword. Perhaps it is out of respect for the traditions that they are so restrictive dealing with the sword.

...in the U.S., the police are not there to defend you, as ruled many times by the United States Supreme Court

That's the second time you've said that. As a matter of curiousity, do you have a source?

I'd feel a lot braver against a guy with a knife than a guy with a gun.
You wouldn't feel that way if it were me weilding the knife. Knives can be quite deadly in the right hands. Why, with just a couple of well-placed punctures you'd be on the ground writhing in agony as you bleed out over about 40-90 seconds.

You've been arguing a point I conceded....so aren't you the one with no point? I've just been defending.
Defending what then? You admit that you do not know about Japan and the situation in Akihara. You admit that CCP holders do not just magically show up. So pretty much you have nothing to defend.

Oh, and we're discussing two different bar shootings. There was another one in which a man with a CCL stepped in.
Really? When and where?

And I don't know about Japan(obviously), but in the U.S., the police are not there to defend you, as ruled many times by the United States Supreme Court
Be it noted that the attacker in Akihara was taken down by a uniformed police officer.

Interesting. I thought they would be more understanding about the sword. Though I suppose they wouldn't want just any individual weilding a sword. Perhaps it is out of respect for the traditions that they are so restrictive dealing with the sword.
Yes, but not in the way you think. The restrictions on swords date back to the beginning of the Meiji Restoration when the samurai were forbidden to carry their swords. Also, the police have a long memory and remember how much fun it was to deal with someone with a sword.

Be it noted that the attacker in Akihara was taken down by a uniformed police officer.
Armed with nothing but a baton, I believe.

Yes, but not in the way you think. The restrictions on swords date back to the beginning of the Meiji Restoration when the samurai were forbidden to carry their swords. Also, the police have a long memory and remember how much fun it was to deal with someone with a sword.

Actually it goes back much further. The sword bans and great sword hunts of the late 16th C. and early 17th C. were specifically intended to disarm potential opposition to the government. The Meiji ban was the same. And the current strict laws date to the US occupation, and were intended to keep an occupied nation down.

Armed with nothing but a baton, I believe.
Well, at first he whacked him with his baton, but he (the officer) did pull out his sidearm at the end. Japanese police have very strict rules about when they can draw.

Actually it goes back much further. The sword bans and great sword hunts of the late 16th C. and early 17th C. were specifically intended to disarm potential opposition to the government.
True, but those hunts did leave a significant portion of the population (Samurai) armed.

The Meiji ban was the same.
Funnily enough, I was reading a book on Meiji where it was claimed that part of the reason that the samurai were disarmed was (Along with the uprisings or the civil war) because British and American ambassadors demanded it, something about not wanting to be attacked by pissed off samurai in Tokyo, which I guess DID happen a few times.

And the current strict laws date to the US occupation, and were intended to keep an occupied nation down.
Really? I thought that they were kept through the war. I know SCAP held a sword hunt and forbid former officers from holding on to them, but I could have sworn that the general prohibition came from Meiji era.

True, but those hunts did leave a significant portion of the population (Samurai) armed.

Indeed - the ruling powers were the only ones legally permitted arms.

Funnily enough, I was reading a book on Meiji where it was claimed that part of the reason that the samurai were disarmed was (Along with the uprisings or the civil war) because British and American ambassadors demanded it, something about not wanting to be attacked by pissed off samurai in Tokyo, which I guess DID happen a few times.

Hmmm interesting. I know there were several cases (the infamous Sakai incident occured near where I live...) But it was my understanding that it was to put down the Samurai who opposed Meiji.

Really? I thought that they were kept through the war. I know SCAP held a sword hunt and forbid former officers from holding on to them, but I could have sworn that the general prohibition came from Meiji era.

The general one did. But it wasn't as strict as the one put in place by SCAP, which was officially put into Japanese law in 1958, IIRC...

Yep:
"Who are allowed to possess guns?

The Firearms and Sword Control Law, which was legislated in 1958, bans possessing, importing, trading and discharging firearms."
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20070605i1.html

Well, at first he whacked him with his baton, but he (the officer) did pull out his sidearm at the end. Japanese police have very strict rules about when they can draw.

Yes, it was an officer. Which I've mentioned at least twice.

http://www.worldexaminer.com/worldexaminer/2008/05/lapierre-nranewscom-rtc-holder-stops-mass-shooting.html

Winnamucca, Nevada.

Three dead(the gunman was one), several wounded.

That was a few less casualties than they had in Japan recently, no? and that man had a gun.