NationStates Jolt Archive

To all you Irish out there, this is a thread about the Lisbon/ New EU Treaty.
You can include things like how you are going to voteand discuss the thing itself and also if you think it's good to have a referendum on it.

For those outside Ireland, but in the EU, you can use this to discuss whether you're in favour or against of the treaty and whether it was right for your country not to give you the citizens your say.

For those outside Europe, just give your opinion on referendums and if you think they should be used in your nation when it signs an international treaty, that affects its citizens lifes.

To start you off, here's my opinion....

Personally if I was back in Ireland, I'd be voting yes, as the treaty is to me nothing more than a tidying up treaty. Also it will simplify and improve the functioning of the EU as body.
However I think all countries should have had a referendum, in order to give it democratic legitimacy.

We should have a referendum because we were promised one - they're just using the excuse that 'it's slightly different now' to deny us a say.

Having said that, I do support the treaty, for much the same reasons that you do.

What is this treaty about?

What is this treaty about?

In essence

http://europa.eu/lisbon_treaty/glance/index_en.htm

I'm somewhat tempted to vote no, just so we'll have to do it again.

Seriously, if Ireland votes no, we'll just have to keep voting on it until we say yes.

I'm somewhat tempted to vote no, just so we'll have to do it again.

Seriously, if Ireland votes no, we'll just have to keep voting on it until we say yes.

Spam the polling booth!

In essence

http://europa.eu/lisbon_treaty/glance/index_en.htm

From the link, one of the supposed benefits of the treaty:

A more democratic and transparent Europe, with a strengthened role for the European Parliament and national parliaments, more opportunities for citizens to have their voices heard and a clearer sense of who does what at European and national level

Presumably that's why we in the UK are being denied a vote on it...

In essence

http://europa.eu/lisbon_treaty/glance/index_en.htm

Sounds fun, where do I sign?

Seriously now, there must be a catch. There always is:eek:

I'm somewhat tempted to vote no, just so we'll have to do it again.

Seriously, if Ireland votes no, we'll just have to keep voting on it until we say yes.

Thats the impression I get. Actually its one of the few clear things about the whole buisiness. Though normally pro-europe, I'm contemplating a "Nil".

Ahh yes. the "You can have a vote, as long as you vote the way we want you to" tactic.

As much as I am in favour of the EU (even if it needs some massive reforms), I dislike this tratyu-is-not-a-constitution thing they're pushing though.

But Hey, I'm not Irish, so I don't have to make the difficult decision on whether to vote for it or not. Overlord Brown has made that decision for me!

Overlord Brown has made that decision for me!


That is entirely incorrect. He has merely freed you from the terrible burden of choice.

But Hey, I'm not Irish, so I don't have to make the difficult decision on whether to vote for it or not. Overlord Brown has made that decision for me!

well its not like we could of said no to the treaty like what was expected hence why Ireland still gets to vote ;)

BTW how do you like your eggs?

Well I'd rather not vote No and once again be thought of as the laughing stock of the EU. (Country wise - obviously I doubt the whole of the EU thinks I'm the laughing stock of the EU!)

I'll be voting Yes for a variety of reasons, but also because the No campaign has been quite ridiculous in it's scaremongering.

Well I'd rather not vote No and once again be thought of as the laughing stock of the EU.

Why on earth do you think that Ireland is the laughing stock of the EU? :confused:

Presumably that's why we in the UK are being denied a vote on it...
The only reason Ireland is voting on it is because our constitution requires that we hold a referendum before signing any treaties. I imagine the government would like to just hold a referendum to get rid of that bit, but it'd never fly.
Thats the impression I get. Actually its one of the few clear things about the whole buisiness. Though normally pro-europe, I'm contemplating a "Nil".
I think that's what happened with the Nice Treaty.
Why on earth do you think that Ireland is the laughing stock of the EU? :confused:
The EU citizens love us, because we're making a decision on the Lisbon Treaty for them.

Actually some of the shitebags on the "No" campaign made me feel like voting "Sea". Particularily the bit about the thing making prostitution, drugs and abortion legal. However labour and Ruari "secular christian country" quinn are "yes" so thats always going to get me saying "fuck off" a lot.....

Actually some of the shitebags on the "No" campaign made me feel like voting "Sea". Particularily the bit about the thing making prostitution, drugs and abortion legal. However labour and Ruari "secular christian country" quinn are "yes" so thats always going to get me saying "fuck off" a lot.....

Wait, does it really require signatories to make abortion legal? If so then I may just come out in favour of it (not that it makes much difference seeing as we don't get a referendum, but I'd look more favourably on the EU as a whole).

I would vote no, but alas i wont be in the country at the time, dont like all this talk of an EU army in which every country must go to war if they say so, especially with our location. I just about like things the way they are, dont think europe needs any immediate change so.

Another thing is that they can change what they want after the treaty is signed, meaning that promises will more than likely be broken. All EU laws will also overrule Irish law and also promotes the death penalty, which is a real kick in the pants.

Pity i wont have a say in it, im sure its going to end up in a yes result though.


That europa site is ridiculous btw, pure sugar coated bullshit

Why on earth do you think that Ireland is the laughing stock of the EU? :confused:

The Nice Treaty required two referenda to pass. That was quite embarrassing.

dont like all this talk of an EU army in which every country must go to war if they say so, especially with our location.

Will the Treaty create a European army?
No. Military capabilities remain in national hands. The Treaty foresees that Member States can make available civilian and military resources to the Union for the implementation of its Common Security and Defence operations. However, any Member State has the right to oppose such operations and all contributions to them will be always on a voluntary basis.

A group of Member States who are willing and have the necessary capability will be able to undertake disarmament operations, humanitarian and rescue tasks, military advice and peace-keeping tasks. No Member State can be forced to participate in such operations.
http://europa.eu/lisbon_treaty/faq/index_en.htm#15

Another thing is that they can change what they want after the treaty is signed, meaning that promises will more than likely be broken.

Will more decisions be taken by qualified majority voting?
Yes. The Treaty of Lisbon will extend qualified majority voting to new policy areas. It is very much in the European Union's interest to adopt a more streamlined approach to decision-making, including on issues such as fighting climate change, energy security and emergency humanitarian aid to hot-spots around the globe. Some of the other changes address issues like citizens' initiatives, diplomatic and consulate protection, and procedural matters. Unanimity will be retained in areas including tax, foreign policy, defence and social security.

http://europa.eu/lisbon_treaty/faq/index_en.htm#7

All EU laws will also overrule Irish law
I fail to see how a Constitution can be overruled by a Treaty.

. All EU laws will also overrule Irish law and also promotes the death penalty, which is a real kick in the pants.


Wtf?

The Nice Treaty required two referenda to pass. That was quite embarrassing.

I don't think anyone was laughing at you for that. And I don't know why holding up the EU is something to be embarrassed about, unless you think it is your obligation to just rubber stamp everything the EU chucks at you.

Why on earth do you think that Ireland is the laughing stock of the EU? :confused:

Because they have a successful economy?

It makes that fat fuck Sepp Blatter's 6+5 more feasible, so REJECT REJECT REJECT.

I don't think anyone was laughing at you for that. And I don't know why holding up the EU is something to be embarrassed about, unless you think it is your obligation to just rubber stamp everything the EU chucks at you.

What was embarrassing about Nice was the people had to be 'reminded' that it was because of EU enlargement that Ireland became so wealthy in the first place, and now that others wanted in, we said "Whoa, fuck that.... 'No'."

Being the greedy sod is embarrassing given all that the other members of the EU did for us.

What was embarrassing about Nice was the people had to be 'reminded' that it was because of EU enlargement that Ireland became so wealthy in the first place, and now that others wanted in, we said "Whoa, fuck that.... 'No'."

Being the greedy sod is embarrassing given all that the other members of the EU did for us.

Unfortunately, if you're counting on a bit of common decency and feeling for our fellow man due to our past as a poor country, you won't be counting very high....However the odds are it will pass, as the party machines will be sure to get the faithful out this time round.

People this wouldn't promote the death penalty in any way as the death penalty is forbidden under the treaty of Rome.

Also the EU's so called army will only ever be used for the Petersburg tasks as set out under the Amsterdam and Nice treaties.