NationStates Jolt Archive

A university student will soon be deported for having an al-qaida training manual. Basically he is a researcher using the manual for his MA thesis, but the UK's government is so fired up about terrorism that they're about to go overboard. When your entire country is so afraid of terrorism that it starts to arrest people for the slightest suspicions, it shows that terrorists may have accomplished their goals. =\

http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/news/story/0,,2283183,00.html

For more than a decade, Nottingham university felt like the safest place in the world for Hicham Yezza as an undergraduate, doctoral student, campus activist and, most recently, employee. But two weeks ago his world caved in when he was arrested under the Terrorism Act.

The 30-year-old Algerian was detained by police for possessing a copy of the al-Qaida training manual that he had been given to print by a friend researching the terrorist group's techniques for his MA.

Yezza came to the UK on a presidential scholarship to study a BSc in computer science and management studies. He went on to do an MA and embarked on a PhD in video compression techniques.

...

Since last year he had been employed as a personal assistant to the head of the modern languages school at the university. He has been a prominent figure on the Nottingham campus as general secretary of the international students bureau and a founder of the student peace movement.

This is a sad day for the UK. :(

Thoughts?

A university student will soon be deported for having an al-qaida training manual. Basically he is a researcher using the manual for his MA thesis, but the UK's government is so fired up about terrorism that they're about to go overboard. When your entire country is so afraid of terrorism that it starts to arrest people for the slightest suspicions, it shows that terrorists may have accomplished their goals. =\

http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/news/story/0,,2283183,00.html



This is a sad day for the UK. :(

Thoughts?

*points and laughs at the U.K.*

Seriously though, that is rather depressing. :(

Bah. terrorists have reached their goal: Spreading terror. What's next, arresting people who google Al-Kaida? *SWAT team bursts in*

Oh mother f- *Is gunned down after seeing the words "Al-Kaida" in his post*

Screw strategy! We're not gonna read turrist litretcher to lern how they oprate, we'll just arrest and deeport anyone who has turrist litretcher or looks like a turrist! And if you complain you're probably a turrist too and we'll arrest or deeport you too! Why do you hate freedom?

Seriously, the West is pissing in their pants over nothing. The Bogeyman has been replaced in the closet by Bin Ladin.

This is the same security-minded brilliance that booted Henry Rollins out of Australia for carrying a book about Jihadism.

Bah. terrorists have reached their goal: Spreading terror. What's next, arresting people who google Al-Kaida? *SWAT team bursts in*

Oh mother f- *Is gunned down after seeing the words "Al-Kaida" in his post*

I'll be there a minute. I want to finish my dinner first.

Seriously, the West is pissing in their pants over nothing. The Bogeyman has been replaced in the closet by Bin Ladin.
He's had many guises, that ol' Bogeyman.

Be it Jews, Protestants, Catholics, Muslims, Atheists, Homosexuals, Blacks, Mexicans, Soviet Communists, Latin-American Communists, Democrats, Anarchists, Alcohol, Drugs, Gypsies, the Working Class, Intellectuals or International Terrorism, there's always got to be a monster.

Wow, that is just sad... Very sad.

It's beyond sad. It's downright pathetic. If anything, it makes them about as bad as certain Saudi Arabia, especially with that whole "We punish those who have books we don't like" stance.

And, as if to emphasise the madness, this (http://www.theedgeofmadness.com/index.php?title=no_t_shirt_no_flight) only confirms the stupidity and paranoia inherent in the West's response to terrorism.

From BoingBoing: "This poor guy tried to board a BA flight at Heathrow terminal 5 but was turned back and told to change out of his t-shirt, which featured a Transformer robot carrying a gun -- a robot with a gun that apparently posed a threat to flight safety."

And here's a picture of the 'threat to flight safety':

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/8320/fcuktransformermh0.jpg

Madness on an unimaginable scale.

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/8320/fcuktransformermh0.jpg
I like that shirt. Can anybody get one for me?

(so I can terrorize people. :D)

Great. Can we stop the war now?

maybe this will learn him for being born Algerian :mad:

(tortured) dead man walking...

I like that shirt. Can anybody get one for me?
It's a FCUK shirt, apparently, so you can probably get it fairly easily.

Just don't hide any guns in the picture of a gun...

* likes the t-shirt*

I saw this in the news this week, and thought how stupid it was that two people were arrested for the possession of a book!

Just because of what it talks about, it doesn't mean that people should be arrested for reading it!, especially not if its being used for research.


Anyway, an update from El Reg stated that the guy is now not going to be deported.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/30/student_arrested_downloading_book/

I think you have the facts slightly wrong. It said the Algerian guy was doing a PhD in Video Compression techniques. It was his friend who was doing the MA related to Al-Qaida whatsits. Probably because people in CompSci departments get tonnes of free printing credits, whilst Arts subjects give you jack shit.

Anyway this sucks majorly. I suppose there could be more than meets the eye, but I doubt it.

Thoughts?
1) We're not all scared of terrorism, don't be ridiculous.

2) He can appeal, so there we go.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13735002&postcount=635

Bloody ridiculous, to be honest. The Labour government is going all crazy about this sort of crap, increasing the amount of time the police can detain people without charge and all this sort of thing. Sometimes it seems like we're happily walking down the road to totalitarianism, although that is somewhat alarmist of me.

The Labour government is going all crazy about this sort of crap, increasing the amount of time the police can detain people without charge and all this sort of thing.
It's not as if any of the major parties are hugely opposed to the continued fanning the flames of the imagined 'International Terrorism'.

Terrorism is real. It's just a question of where to draw the line.

This situation (Algerian, terroristic texts, etc.) needed investigation rather than deportation. It of course poses the possibility of being true given the circumstances; however, I don't think we'll ever find out since all the Brits did was deport him.

Alternatively, a trial or appeal is also the wrong way to go about in this situation. This is why America has NSA wiretap programs and the FISA court. If something draws the government's attention, they can actually figure out what is going on, instead of immediately taking action.


EDIT: I reread the article. Looks like the it might have a separate charge that deported him... so... it's not always that clear cut.

Alternatively, a trial or appeal is also the wrong way to go about in this situation. This is why America has NSA wiretap programs and the FISA court. If something draws the government's attention, they can actually figure out what is going on, instead of immediately declaring the person guilty.

A trial is the wrong way to go about determining if someone is guilty or not? You do know that that is exactly what trials are for, don't you?

It's not as if any of the major parties are hugely opposed to the continued fanning the flames of the imagined 'International Terrorism'.
No, this is true. It's just that New "Labour"'s the one currently in power. The Tories and the Lib Dems must be rubbing their hands with glee 'cos New "Labour"'s taking all the flak for this and if/when the Tories get into power, they can reap the "rewards" of it.

Bloody ridiculous, to be honest. The Labour government is going all crazy about this sort of crap, increasing the amount of time the police can detain people without charge and all this sort of thing. Sometimes it seems like we're happily walking down the road to totalitarianism, although that is somewhat alarmist of me.

the plan is by 2020 to reassert British direct control of the common wealth
and by 2050 to merge the Us and Britain.

It seems to be the only way to resist China.

No, this is true. It's just that New "Labour"'s the one currently in power. The Tories and the Lib Dems must be rubbing their hands with glee 'cos New "Labour"'s taking all the flak for this and if/when the Tories get into power, they can reap the "rewards" of it.
The Lib Dems are going to get screwed over, basically because New Labour and the Conservatives have broadly the same outlook and will essentially form a coalition.

*Feels like she's in the 1950's with more advanced technology*

"Are you now or have you ever been a researcher into Terrorist activities?"

The witch hunts are here again!

...*realizes she is a witch*...

This is gonna be baaadd...

*Feels like she's in the 1950's with more advanced technology*

"Are you now or have you ever been a researcher into Terrorist activities?"

The witch hunts are here again!

...*realizes she is a witch*...

This is gonna be baaadd...
Don't worry. Most people accused of witchcraft in England were acquitted.

*Feels like she's in the 1950's with more advanced technology*

"Are you now or have you ever been a researcher into Terrorist activities?"

The witch hunts are here again!

...*realizes she is a witch*...

This is gonna be baaadd...

Do you weigh the same as a duck??

A trial is the wrong way to go about determining if someone is guilty or not? You do know that that is exactly what trials are for, don't you?


You have to gather evidence before you arrest someone. Find out who they know and if it points to terrorism, arrest everyone you can link to it. Don't just arrest them immediately without any linkage to actual terrorists other than one text. The first step is never a trial (and in certain situations, when the suspected party is actually a terrorist, you don't want a trial).

You have to gather evidence before you arrest someone. Find out who they know and if it points to terrorism, arrest everyone you can link to it. Don't just arrest them immediately without any linkage to actual terrorists other than one text. The first step is never a trial
Ah, gotcha.
(and in certain situations, when the suspected party is actually a terrorist, you don't want a trial).

Why not?

*Feels like she's in the 1950's with more advanced technology*

"Are you now or have you ever been a researcher into Terrorist activities?"
Aye, on the other hand "yes, because I'm doing it as part of a thesis, here is my thesis so far just so you can see I'm not lying and hence a Baddie" will get you acquitted of that particular charge.

Why not?

One acronym: ACLU

(at least in the US)


They usually end up providing counsel for terrorists and getting in the way of due process (ie. giving them the death penalty). When we have proof someone is terrorist, I don't think there needs to be an attempt to save the terrorist's life, etc. by some over-paid ultra-liberal attorney.

The Lib Dems are going to get screwed over, basically because New Labour and the Conservatives have broadly the same outlook and will essentially form a coalition.
It's maddening that they have essentially the same out look.

There's no way in hell I'd vote for any of the main three any time soon, although I'd also never vote Tory.

Ah, gotcha.


Why not?

bullets are cheaper.

One acronym: ACLU

(at least in the US)
Not having trials against your criminals is a very dangerous road to start down.
It's maddening that they have essentially the same out look.
Not particularly surprising.
There's no way in hell I'd vote for any of the main three any time soon, although I'd also never vote Tory.
Aye, just don't vote Green (anti-EU, also think we should live like plebs again, no ta), BNP (obviously), Respect (you'll just encourage them) or anything with any connection, past or present, to Kilroy Silk.

Aye, just don't vote Green (anti-EU, also think we should live like plebs again, no ta), BNP (obviously), Respect (you'll just encourage them) or anything with any connection, past or present, to Kilroy Silk.
I'd never vote for any of them. The Greens appear to have one and only one policy, the BNP - foul bunch of racists and well, Kilroy Silk is all that needs to be said.
bullets are cheaper
Ah, yes.

When they come for you on a flimsy pretext, remember this for the irony.

One acronym: ACLU

(at least in the US)


They usually end up providing counsel for terrorists and getting in the way of due process (ie. giving them the death penalty). When we have proof someone is terrorist, I don't think there needs to be an attempt to save the terrorist's life, etc. by some over-paid ultra-liberal attorney.

If you have proof someone is a terrorist then you'll no doubt get a conviction. Unless you obtained that proof illegally. You see, terrorists have the same rights as everyone else. If they don't deserve someone defending their rights, then what makes you think you do?

Isn't that just his story? I mean how the fuck can an Al Qaeda manual help with video compression techniques (what he studies), I doubt the police find that story very likely.

Isn't that just his story? I mean how the fuck can an Al Qaeda manual help with video compression techniques (what he studies), I doubt the police find that story very likely.
The fact that he's from Algeria can't be helping, discriminatory as that might sound.

Isn't that just his story? I mean how the fuck can an Al Qaeda manual help with video compression techniques (what he studies), I doubt the police find that story very likely.
Does owning an Al Qaeda manual mean you're a terrorist, more importantly?

Obviously not, just as owning Mein Kampf doesn't make you a Nazi, or owning State and Revolution doesn't make you a Marxist-Leninist.

Does owning an Al Qaeda manual mean you're a terrorist, more importantly?

Obviously not, just as owning Mein Kampf doesn't make you a Nazi, or owning State and Revolution doesn't make you a Marxist-Leninist.

No but it makes you very suspicious.

Does owning an Al Qaeda manual mean you're a terrorist, more importantly?

Obviously not, just as owning Mein Kampf doesn't make you a Nazi, or owning State and Revolution doesn't make you a Marxist-Leninist.

all of those get you expelled from the UK if your not a citizen apparently.

all of those get you expelled from the UK if your not a citizen apparently.
You saying that with proof, or just plain making that up?

I've never heard of anyone getting booted out because of either Mein Kampf or anything other than this.

all of those get you expelled from the UK if your not a citizen apparently.
... you going to back that up, squire?

... you going to back that up, squire?
Probably not.

He can't.

No but it makes you very suspicious.

I'd say there are several people who own both those books. Commu-nazis the lot of them, no doubt.

Sometimes it seems like we're happily walking down the road to totalitarianism, although that is somewhat alarmist of me.

No - it's not alarmist of you. We seem to have forgotten just why we have the rights we do, why we put limitations into what the government can do, and why we split governments up into various branches for checks-and-balances.

Freedoms are costly things. Sometimes they cost lives and it's almost always those that are innocent that lose their lives. If we're not willing to accept those costs then we not only lose our freedoms, we don't deserve to have them.

There's always a rational and justified reason to nibble away at our freedoms. "Protect the children!" And a nibble isn't all that bad, now is it? It's just a tiny thing and look at what we'll gain from it! Just a tiny bit, something you'll hardly notice.... Unfortunately enough nibbles equals a bite but by the time we notice it we're being chewed up and swallowed.

I'd say there are several people who own both those books.
Guilty.

I guess I should expect a knock at the door shortly (if they even bother to knock, these days).

Meh, Somewhere on my external hard drive I have the oh so cool "Anarchists' Cookbook":rolleyes: Its a waste of words.

I do, however, have other material that I probably shouldn't own, both as an American and a Christian. Oh well, its fun to read and imagine the possibilities of using those techniques.

I guess I should expect a knock at the door shortly (if they even bother to knock, these days).
Nah, they'll just snatch you on yer way to the shops.

No but it makes you very suspicious.
Why on Terra would it?

I also own Plato's Republic. Should you be suspicious of me trying to enforce a system of philosopher-kings onto the UK?

all of those get you expelled from the UK if your not a citizen apparently.
Tag under 'No'.

I must be VERY evil, considering all the stuff I've read. And I have a shotgun! I must be planning something bad! Oh, wait, I've never made threats or assaulted anyone, but that's irrelevant.

Freedom, liberty, and due process apply to everyone or no one. there's no other way to have a just society. Detainment without trial, secret trials, kangaroo courts, warrantless wiretapping, etc. are all totalitarian tactics that estrange the population more than they prevent terrorism.

Meh, Somewhere on my external hard drive I have the oh so cool "Anarchists' Cookbook":rolleyes: Its a waste of words.

I think I do too, somewhere. Funny stuff.

Why on Terra would it?

I also own Plato's Republic. Should you be suspicious of me trying to enforce a system of philosopher-kings onto the UK?


Eff, me too. In fact, I have a lot of Greek philosophy books, and I don't know why.

Freedom, liberty, and due process apply to everyone or no one. there's no other way to have a just society. Detainment without trial, secret trials, kangaroo courts, warrantless wiretapping, etc. are all totalitarian tactics that estrange the population more than they prevent terrorism.
Hear, hear.

Eff, me too. In fact, I have a lot of Greek philosophy books, and I don't know why.
Because they're extremely interesting?

I think I do too, somewhere. Funny stuff.

Mine is an old e-book. It has crap in their about early "phreaking".

No - it's not alarmist of you. We seem to have
There's always a rational and justified reason to nibble away at our freedoms. "Protect the children!" And a nibble isn't all that bad, now is it? It's just a tiny thing and look at what we'll gain from it! Just a tiny bit, something you'll hardly notice.... Unfortunately enough nibbles equals a bite but by the time we notice it we're being chewed up and swallowed.


As long as you return the freedoms (e.g. habeas corpus after the Civil War); I don't see a problem with it. In a free society, where one man can only be the leader of a nation for less than a decade as in the US, there is no problem with temporary suspension of some freedoms for certain people in order to protect the freedom of the nation as a whole.


BTW a manual used by a terrorist organization is a lot different than Mein Kampf. Between it and the Anarchist's Cookbook there are indeed similarities, but the books have different intentions.

Eff, me too. In fact, I have a lot of Greek philosophy books, and I don't know why.

Dammit....if Plato is grounds for breaking in doors now, I'm surprised that I haven't been clapped in Gitmo yet. Maybe I'm just not important enough for the gummint to bother with an undergrad with a penchant for syndicalism and 1890's socialism.

Because they're extremely interesting?

I haven't really read many of them though. The only one's i've read is The Republic, and then stuff by Seneca(but he is Roman)

Mine is an old e-book. It has crap in their about early "phreaking".

Ditto. Crap about boxes of various colours. Making special frequencies to get free calls or something. Lots of swapping f with ph.

BTW a manual used by a terrorist organization is a lot different than Mein Kampf.
Why?

Does the manual have magical powers that force anyone who reads it to follow the instructions inside?

Ditto. Crap about boxes of various colours. Making special frequencies to get free calls or something. Lots of swapping f with ph.
Hehe, sounds like the version that I had many moons ago (which, come to think of it, is probably still lurking in one of the dozens of unsorted folders I have on old hard drives in old PCs). I seem to remember browsing through it and wondering what all the fuss was about, as well as wondering whether the 'ph for f' swapping was only there to distract people from the appalling spelling everywhere else in the document :p

Ditto. Crap about boxes of various colours. Making special frequencies to get free calls or something. Lots of swapping f with ph.

Yep..However, the good stuff I have includes ways on how to kill without leaving traces, urban combat techniques, how to make certain explosives, how to make effective silencers, how to grow various drugs, and I just found also one that was picture guide on Karma Sutra. So evidently, when I d/l all of these, I decided that killing a man was just as important as knowing how to do special sex moves.

Why?

Does the manual have magical powers that force anyone who reads it to follow the instructions inside?

Yup. Evil Islamist magicks.

I haven't really read many of them though. The only one's i've read is The Republic, and then stuff by Seneca(but he is Roman)
Many are well worth it, and rather short.

If you aren't going to read them, I'd donate them to your local charity shop/used books store. There'll be plenty of Classics/Philosophy students keen to snap them up.

*loves his Local Oxfam Book store*

Yup. Evil Islamist magicks.
I knew it!

Why?

Does the manual have magical powers that force anyone who reads it to follow the instructions inside?


Mein Kampf describes a political ideology rather than actual illegal and terrorist activities that can be carried out by one person. It's not a question of "will someone?"; it's a question of "can someone?"

Why?

Does the manual have magical powers that force anyone who reads it to follow the instructions inside?

Mein Kampf describes a political ideology rather than actual illegal and terrorist activities that can be carried out by one person. It's not a question of "will someone?"; it's a question of "can someone?" What was the purpose of the piece: description of motives or ideals (Mein Kampf, Communist Manifesto), entertainment, or use in a dangerous fashion?

Mein Kampf describes a political ideology rather than actual illegal and terrorist activities that can be carried out by one person.
The point being?

The mere possession of a manual with instructions for any number of despicable acts, should not be illegal in itself. I can get my hands on any number of manuals detailing any number of illegal things; doesn't mean I support the folks writing the manual, or indeed that I will carry out the actions described.

Mein Kampf describes a political ideology rather than actual illegal and terrorist activities that can be carried out by one person.

Well, should we also ban Sun Tzu's The Art of War, for teaching people military techniques? It could lead citizens to want to throw over the gov't after all.:rolleyes:

Mein Kampf describes a political ideology rather than actual illegal and terrorist activities that can be carried out by one person. It's not a question of "will someone?"; it's a question of "can someone?"
I heard it was also fairly difficult to read, 'cos its very rambling.

No, but possession of such a manual could warrant investigation. I agree it was wrong for him to be immediately arrested, but it is also suspicious for him to have that text.

Mein Kampf describes a political ideology rather than actual illegal and terrorist activities that can be carried out by one person. It's not a question of "will someone?"; it's a question of "can someone?" What was the purpose of the piece: description of motives or ideals (Mein Kampf, Communist Manifesto), entertainment, or use in a dangerous fashion?

Knowing how to break the law isn't really the same as breaking the law.

I'm not saying it should be illegal. I'm saying the purpose of ownership combined with the person's heritage warrants investigation into the person and his associates.

I'm not saying it should be illegal. I'm saying the purpose of ownership combined with the person's heritage warrants investigation into the person and his associates.
Someone's skin colour/ethnicity and possession of a book warrants investigation?

Eeek.

Someone's skin colour/ethnicity and possession of a book warrants investigation?

Eeek.

It's this kind of thinking that really leaves America open to attack by white terrorists.

I'm not saying it should be illegal. I'm saying the purpose of ownership combined with the person's heritage warrants investigation into the person and his associates.

So, you're saying, because of his heritage (i.e. race), there should be an investigation on him?
I hope I'm not the only one kinda shocked by that.

4-4;13735309']So, you're saying, because of his heritage (i.e. race), there should be an investigation on him?
I hope I'm not the only one kinda shocked by that.

Actually, religion...

You don't see many Christians blowing themselves up for Allah.

You don't see many Christians blowing themselves up for Allah.
That would be strange indeed...

Blowing themselves, or others, up in the name of Christ. Now that's more 'understandable'.

Actually, religion...

You don't see many Christians blowing themselves up for Allah.

Well, obviously, if you were a Christian, Allah as a deity doesn't exist, so that would be a pretty pointless cause.

Are you saying, its justified invesgitating him if he was a Muslim, because then he could do it in Allah's name?

Actually, religion...

You don't see many Christians blowing themselves up for Allah.

Which is of course the only motivation one could have for a terrorist attack. The IRA, they were doing it for Allah.

Which is of course the only motivation one could have for a terrorist attack. The IRA, they were doing it for Allah.

Last I remember the IRA wasn't in league with Al-Qaida...

In fact, I think there would be quite a bit of animosity between the two. Since it was an AL-QAIDA manual, I would assume that a terrorist that would use it would be Muslim.

Last I remember the IRA wasn't in league with Al-Qaida...

In fact, I think there would be quite a bit of animosity between the two. Since it was an AL-QAIDA manual, I would assume that a terrorist that would use it would be Muslim.

No, I'm pretty sure it was all for Allah.

I haven't read the manual myself *checks window* but if it is such a training manual, it contents could be used by other terrorists groups which aren't Muslins (e.g. you wouldn't need to be a Muslim to read how to make this type of explosive).

Last I remember the IRA wasn't in league with Al-Qaida...

In fact, I think there would be quite a bit of animosity between the two. Since it was an AL-QAIDA manual, I would assume that a terrorist that would use it would be Muslim.

A faulty assumption. Instructions on how to make bombs or engage in urban warfare aren't religion specific. I could use an Al Qaida instruction manual to make a bomb just as easily as Osama Bin Laden. Well, assuming my copy was in English.

A faulty assumption. Instructions on how to make bombs or engage in urban warfare aren't religion specific. I could use an Al Qaida instruction manual to make a bomb just as easily as Osama Bin Laden. Well, assuming my copy was in English.

Why would you use such an easily recognized and investigated source if you were another terrorist organization? How would you get the manual? (Long list of questions that come down to: Being a Muslim with an Al-Qaida training manual is just plain suspicious.)

Why on Terra would it?

I also own Plato's Republic. Should you be suspicious of me trying to enforce a system of philosopher-kings onto the UK?


Are you seriously, seriously, comparing a book on philosophy and political philosophy to something that as far as I'm aware, is essentially a training manual on how to be a good terrorist? I mean seriously, I didn't say that MAKES him a terrorist, I'm saying there are limited alternatives for someone like him who studies film compression. If THIS doesn't make someone suspicious, then you may as well get rid of the word entirely since it would be almost completely meaningless.

Are you seriously, seriously, comparing a book on philosophy and political philosophy to something that as far as I'm aware, is essentially a training manual on how to be a good terrorist?
I'm comparing them in so much that both outline some fairly undesirable ideas.

I mean seriously, I didn't say that MAKES him a terrorist, I'm saying there are limited alternatives for someone like him who studies film compression.
Can someone not have interests beyond their academic career? I wouldn't mind reading this manual; to gain a better understanding of what the organisation stands for.

Education, sir, is the key.

Wasn't the guy studying violence in Islam or something, and his friend who printed it for him was the one studying film compression/techniques?

I'm comparing them in so much that both outline some fairly undesirable ideas.


Can someone not have interests beyond their academic career? I wouldn't mind reading this manual; to gain a better understanding of what the organisation stands for.

Education, sir, is the key.

Yes, but it is suspicious when you are Muslim, from a North African country, and have a terrorist training manual.

If you do not already know what Al-Qaida stands for then you, sir, have not been living in the same world as I for the past 7 years.


EDIT: 4-4, I think he was studying video compression according to the article.

I'm comparing them in so much that both outline some fairly undesirable ideas.


Plato's Republic is an interesting read, the bit about philosopher kings is not THAT bad. However they are fundamentally different, that book is about the what and why, what are the forms? why are we here? etc... The manual is about the how, how do you create the best bomb? etc... The person who reads the manual does not read it to understand a different perspective on politics.


Can someone not have interests beyond their academic career? I wouldn't mind reading this manual; to gain a better understanding of what the organisation stands for.

Education, sir, is the key.

Yes but also consider that it's incredibly difficult to get hold of a copy of something like this, unless you hang around in some dodgy circles, I believe. This makes him even more suspicious.

Yes but also consider that it's incredibly difficult to get hold of a copy of something like this, unless you hang around in some dodgy circles, I believe. This makes him even more suspicious.

First result in google for "al-Qaeda Training Manual"

www.usdoj.gov/ag/manualpart1_1.pdf

Department of Justice :/

4-4;13735416']First result in google for "al-Qaeda Training Manual"

www.usdoj.gov/ag/manualpart1_1.pdf

Department of Justice :/


Ironic... Yet not exactly shocking.

4-4;13735416']First result in google for "al-Qaeda Training Manual"

www.usdoj.gov/ag/manualpart1_1.pdf

Department of Justice :/

Ok, guess I was misinformed on that one. Although if it were a translated copy created by the police, I'm sure the article would have mentioned it.

That would be strange indeed...

Blowing themselves, or others, up in the name of Christ. Now that's more 'understandable'.

Never heard of that happening actually...

EDIT: 4-4, I think he was studying video compression according to the article.

No, sir, you Fail.


For more than a decade, Nottingham university felt like the safest place in the world for Hicham Yezza as an undergraduate, doctoral student, campus activist and, most recently, employee. But two weeks ago his world caved in when he was arrested under the Terrorism Act.

The 30-year-old Algerian was detained by police for possessing a copy of the al-Qaida training manual that he had been given to print by a friend researching the terrorist group's techniques for his MA.
(. . .)
Yezza came to the UK on a presidential scholarship to study a BSc in computer science and management studies. He went on to do an MA and embarked on a PhD in video compression techniques.

Furthermore, might you be reminded of a quote from Benjamin Franklin?
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

You, sir, are full of Fail.

Didn't I just say he was studying video compression? Are you blind?

From http://freehichamyezza.wordpress.com/about/
I'm not sure if that site is official or anything btw, I'm trying to find out now

...occurred after Rizawaan Sabir, a student acquaintance who was studying political Islam emailed a copy of an Al Qaeda training manual he was using for his research to Hich as Rizwaan couldn’t afford to print it.

Rizawaan Sabir = Studying Islam
Hicham Yezz = Studying video compression.

Hope that clears anything up.

If I were investigating this, I would find it a bit hard to accept the "emailed so he could print it" story.

If I were investigating this, I would find it a bit hard to accept the "emailed so he could print it" story.

Why not, I've sent documents and coursework for friends to print.

Granted, a paper on 60's British Cinema isn't as controversial as a terrorist training manual, but it still happens.

4-4;13735513']Why not, I've sent documents and coursework for friends to print.

Granted, a paper on 60's British Cinema isn't as controversial as a terrorist training manual, but it still happens.

Because two Muslims exchanging Al-Qaida manuals is suspicious.

Actually, no one can win The Game.

Never heard of that happening actually...
Never heard of Christian terrorists, eh?

What about those people who blow up abortion clinics? Or the IRA?

The list is, in fact, quite long.

Because two Muslims exchanging Al-Qaida manuals is suspicious.

Would you also find two Irishmen discussing the IRA suspicious?
Or two Christians talking about an Army of God attack?

Plato's Republic is an interesting read, the bit about philosopher kings is not THAT bad.
I don't know, Plato's describing a fairly fucked-up society, but I digress...

However they are fundamentally different, that book is about the what and why, what are the forms? why are we here? etc... The manual is about the how, how do you create the best bomb? etc... The person who reads the manual does not read it to understand a different perspective on politics.
Of course they are different in some respects, they are different texts after all, but I don't see any difference between prosecuting someone purely because they own an al Qaeda manual and prosecuting someone purely because they own a copy of The Republic.

Yes, but it is suspicious when you are Muslim, from a North African country, and have a terrorist training manual.
Suspicious? Perhaps; if one thinks discussion of terrorism is ultimately suspicious.

Arrestable offence? No.

If you do not already know what Al-Qaida stands for then you, sir, have not been living in the same world as I for the past 7 years.
Seeing as the label 'al Qaeda' is given to every grieved brown man and his dog, a proper understanding of the organisation would be useful.

Never heard of that happening actually...
Army of God, Aryan Nations and Christian Patriots (which Timothy McVeigh was associated, at least, with) are three Christian terrorist groups who have carried out bombings in the US alone, along with many Christian terrorist organisations in the Middle East and Asia.

Moreover, although reducing the Irish troubles to 'merely' religious motivations is somewhat simplistic, the various Catholic and Protestant terrorist groups in Northern Ireland and Eire have carried out many, many violent acts (including bombings).

Suspicious? Perhaps; if one thinks discussion of terrorism is ultimately suspicious.

Arrestable offence? No.

Of course not arrestable, but investigatable? Yes.


Army of God, Aryan Nations and Christian Patriots (which Timothy McVeigh was associated, at least, with) are three Christian terrorist groups who have carried out bombings in the US alone, along with many Christian terrorist organisations in the Middle East and Asia.

Moreover, although reducing the Irish troubles to 'merely' religious motivations is somewhat simplistic, the various Catholic and Protestant terrorist groups in Northern Ireland and Eire have carried out many, many violent acts (including bombings).

You make a good point, but IIRC very few of those have been SUICIDE bombings, which is what I was referring to specifically. Also, McVeigh's attack was both political and religious, meant to send a message that the government had made mistakes in handling situations (like the Branch Davidians at Waco) and was paying a price. A truly unfortunate event, but not solely religiously motivated.

You make a good point, but IIRC very few of those have been SUICIDE bombings, which is what I was referring to specifically. Also, McVeigh's attack was both political and religious, meant to send a message that the government had made mistakes in handling situations (like the Branch Davidians at Waco) and was paying a price. A truly unfortunate event, but not solely religiously motivated.
Whereas suicide bombings in London, Madrid, Bali, Iraq, Palestine and the rest are solely religiously motivated?

Of course not.

I'm going to Nottingham uni next year:)

Anyone noticed that disparrate right-wing groups feed off the fear of one another:
The Neo-cons try to scare people about the intentions of right wing muslims and that they all want to kill us etc., and Al-quaeda's main issue for recruitement is that the right wing Neo-Cons in the decadent west want to exploit them and that the only way to fight them is to kill them all.
:headbang:

Whereas suicide bombings in London, Madrid, Bali, Iraq, Palestine and the rest are solely religiously motivated?

Of course not.

Actually, the SUICIDE part is the defining factor. Very few people fighting for a political goal would not at least hope to be alive to see that goal met.

I'm going to Nottingham uni next year:)

Anyone noticed that disparrate right-wing groups feed off the fear of one another:
The Neo-cons try to scare people about the intentions of right wing muslims and that they all want to kill us etc., and Al-quaeda's main issue for recruitement is that the right wing Neo-Cons in the decadent west want to exploit them and that the only way to fight them is to kill them all.
:headbang:

Fanatics actually scratch each other's backs but most people don't realize that.

Actually, the SUICIDE part is the defining factor. Very few people fighting for a political goal would not at least hope to be alive to see that goal met.
So you'd actually deny that those unfortunates who blow themselves up in places around the world are doing so for political as well as religious reasons?

Fanatics actually scratch each other's backs but most people don't realize that.

The fanatics don't realize it.

Though you have to ask who started it the chain, and Muslim extremists existed WAY before Neo-Cons.

Never heard of that happening actually...
Eh, you need to read up on the Lebanese civil war, the Lord's Resistance Army, the Army of God and the IRA, in addition to the types who kick about blowing up abortion clinics now and then.

Eh, you need to read up on the Lebanese civil war, the Lord's Resistance Army, the Army of God and the IRA, in addition to the types who kick about blowing up abortion clinics now and then.

You forgot the Crusades, Inquisition, and Thirty Years War. Just to add a sense of historical continuity.

You forgot the Crusades, Inquisition, and Thirty Years War. Just to add a sense of historical continuity.

How about the War of 1000 Regrets?

*pauses*

Damn! No one is supposed to know about that one until 2010!!
I better ru-

*is silenced by the Secret Underground Christian Resistance Which Paradoxically Does not Resist Christians*

The fanatics don't realize it.

Though you have to ask who started it the chain, and Muslim extremists existed WAY before Neo-Cons.

But Neo-Cons existed before they were attacked by the Muslim extremists. And of course American Neo-Cons are younger than Muslim extremists. The United States is younger than Islam.

The United States is younger than Islam.

It's a close thing.

Since the goal of terrorism is to spread terror.


Yep they won alright. I blame idiots.

Yezza came to the UK on a presidential scholarship to study a BSc in computer science and management studies. He went on to do an MA and embarked on a PhD in video compression techniques.


Excuse me. Am I the only one who realizes how little a terrorist instruction manual has to do with video compression techniques and computer science? Something's not adding up. A manual for research outside the primary major and minor? Sorry, but that just sounds like academic BS to me.

...

Since last year he had been employed as a personal assistant to the head of the modern languages school at the university. He has been a prominent figure on the Nottingham campus as general secretary of the international students bureau and a founder of the student peace movement.

Having had a pretty good helping of the radio advertisements from the "foundation of Peace And Justice" which are nothing more than blatant muslim propaganda against Israel, I am suspicious of ANYONE using the word "peace" as they espouse their political views.

I'm not buying it. The guy got caught and they're deporting him. Wave.

Real terrorists don't have to act covertly in the western nations because we're all a bunch of gullible, easily-led, media-fed buffoons.

I'm getting real tired of living in the world you idiots have wrought and deserve.

GP

It's not as if any of the major parties are hugely opposed to the continued fanning the flames of the imagined 'International Terrorism'.

We are (Lib Dems).

On this particular issue:

Other proposals in the Terrorism Bill

There are a range of other proposals in the Terrorism Bill which have had less public attention. The Liberal Democrats in Parliament have worked hard to improve a number of these.

For example, as originally drafted, there was a possibility that individuals could be prosecuted for passing on material which was of potential use in terrorism, but where there was no intention to cause terrorism. Lord Carlile – the Liberal Democrat peer appointed by the Government as their independent reviewer of terrorism legislation - pointed out that MPs, their researchers and journalists often handle inflammatory material as part of their work against terrorism. Libraries and universities also express fears that information provided in good faith could be used for terrorist purposes. We were successful is getting the government to amend the clause, ensuring that the prosecution needs to prove terrorist intent or recklessness about the potential uses to which disseminated material could be put.


http://www.libdems.org.uk/justice/issues/tacklingterrorism.html

Excuse me. Am I the only one who realizes how little a terrorist instruction manual has to do with video compression techniques and computer science? Something's not adding up. A manual for research outside the primary major and minor? Sorry, but that just sounds like academic BS to me.

No, you're not. You're one of several people to notice that. You're also one of several people who didn't notice that he was printing the manual for a friend.

Thoughts?
I tell you what's ridiculous. How the media will twist everything to make it sound like something is happening when it's nothing like that at all.

So, for all those people the article managed to fool, here is the part you should have read, with the important parts bolded:

They were released without charge, but up until a last-minute reprieve yesterday Yezza had been threatened with deportation on Sunday, charged with a separate immigration offence.

<snip Dem>
Amending one clause, wow!

Let it never be said the Lib Dems are ineffectual.

It's a close thing.
Not really. The founding of Islam was closer in time to the Roman Empire than to the United States.

Amending one clause, wow!

Let it never be said the Lib Dems are ineffectual.

Or perhaps I just quoted the one clause that relates to this case, and because it has been amended means that the guy in question can't be convicted. And the link is to a long detailed section on more than one clause.

We are the third party, there's only so much we can do in parliamentary terms. But you claimed that none of the major parties were interested in protecting civil liberties against the fear of terrorrism, that's not the case.

Great. Can we stop the war now?

Nope. We didn't start it. Why don't you trot on down to South Waziristan, and ask Osama if he can give up his dreams of 72 virgins, and just drink tea instead of plotting world mayhem.

Then, like the end of the Cold War, we can declare a "peace dividend".

ROFL...

Nope. We didn't start it.

What, are you 5 or something?

"BUT I DIDN'T START IT MOOOM!"

What, are you 5 or something?

"BUT I DIDN'T START IT MOOOM!"

Let's see if I have this right.

Party A attacks Party B, and announces its intention to do so until it defeats and destroys Party B.

Party B, in your estimation, should just say, "this conflict is over" and do nothing.

In real life, Party A continues, and destroys Party B.

Did you really go to school?

Nope. We didn't start it.
Uhu...

That means that peacekeeping is a waste of time, and that disaster relief from outside should never occur, then, eh?

In real life, Party A continues, and destroys Party B.

Crickey, the American military is in a much worse state than it appears if there is a genuine risk of Bin Laden actually winning this 'conflict'.

Yes, but it is suspicious when you are Muslim, from a North African country, and have a terrorist training manual.
.

And we don't know what other factors are involved, only what the article's author and/or source feels like sharing. Between government and media, a lot gets held back, for their purposes. And since the purposes are often opposed, that leaves us, the poor unfortunate consumer of news, with painfully little to go on.

After 9-11 an Israeli team advised the US on what factors make up the profile of a terrorist. They noted that the top statistical factor identifying a terrorist is not religion or politics or social class, it is "does he have a social network which includes terrorists?" People, young men especially, follow their peer networks.

But in this case, does he? That is information neither you nor I will ever see.

Let's see if I have this right.

You don't.

Crickey, the American military is in a much worse state than it appears if there is a genuine risk of Bin Laden actually winning this 'conflict'.

Terrorists don't fight the military (unless the military actively pursues them).

No military in the world could have stopped 9/11. Not one.

That takes covert action, spying on people, listening to phone conversations, reading peoples' emails and IMs...

And when you find out who they are, you then call the military to fly a Predator over their house, and put a missile into their left rear pants-pocket.

Let's see if I have this right.

Party A attacks Party B, and announces its intention to do so until it defeats and destroys Party B.

Party B, in your estimation, should just say, "this conflict is over" and do nothing.
No, what's actually happened is that Party B has kicked Party A's mate's head in in Afghanistan, and roughed up his acquaintance Iraq just to show that he can, and has rightly stated that Party B can't do anything about it.
In real life, Party A continues, and destroys Party B.
Uhu...

In real life, Party A has basically no force projection whereas Party B has cruise missiles, and pretty much lets Party A sit about pointlessly for propaganda purposes, but as soon as push comes to shove will kick its arse.
Did you really go to school?
Yep.

That takes covert action, spying on people, listening to phone conversations, reading peoples' emails and IMs...

And when you find out who they are, you then call the military to fly a Predator over their house, and put a missile into their left rear pants-pocket.

And then when all the terrorists are gone the government happily gives up all those powers, and we all hold hands and sing under a rainbow.

And then when all the terrorists are gone the government happily gives up all those powers, and we all hold hands and sing under a rainbow.

I wanna pick the song!

I wanna pick the song!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5VMVZeVBlj0&feature=related ?

And then when all the terrorists are gone the government happily gives up all those powers, and we all hold hands and sing under a rainbow.

Usually not.

The question is, whose dictatorship would you rather live under.

The hopefully benevolent one, or the one you know will put you against the wall for not growing a beard or not wearing a blue beekeeper's outfit.

I wanna pick the song!

Go for it! :)

Usually not.

The question is, whose dictatorship would you rather live under.

The hopefully benevolent one, or the one you know will put you against the wall for not growing a beard or not wearing a blue beekeeper's outfit.
... I, for one, pray nightly to the powers that be to stop this happening. Yes.

Crickey, the American military is in a much worse state than it appears if there is a genuine risk of Bin Laden actually winning this 'conflict'.

There is no risk of Bin Laden winning. There is a real risk of Radical Islam in general continuing to develop capabilities and increasing the level of damage inflicted until one non-Islamic power (which may not be the US) resorts to using genocidal means to end the conflict. As technology increases on both sides, so does capability to cause damage- exponentially.

This end game begins if the US, Europe, or India is attacked with nuclear or biological weapons by terrorists, and there is even the slightest risk that the attack is repeatable. The day that a nuclear bomb hits in India, or a bio-engineered plague hits Denmark and burns across Europe (possibly in retaliation for a cartoon), India or Europe will make the United States seem pacifist and isolationist by comparison. (Despite the Uighur thing in Xinjiang, China will NOT be hit- Islamic extremists are NOT that crazy.)

Please note, of course, when/if such a plague is unleashed in Europe as an act of "Islamic Rage", the designer will be a quiet, unassuming Muslim biology student working on his PHD in a western university, and a search of his bedroom will reveal Al Queda or similarly themed literature. After that, Europeans will no longer grant such people an assumption of harmlessness.

Sadly, the people who will be hurt most, and who will no doubt die by the million over the years to come, will be non-radical Muslims.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5VMVZeVBlj0&feature=related ?

Go for it! :)

This is a good song, but I think I'm going to go with 'Ernie (The Fastest Milkman In the West)'.

We are the third party, there's only so much we can do in parliamentary terms. But you claimed that none of the major parties were interested in protecting civil liberties against the fear of terrorrism, that's not the case.
No, I said "it's not as if any of the major parties are hugely opposed to the continued fanning the flames of the imagined 'International Terrorism'".

And the Lib Dems, though they may oppose some measures in the Terrorism Bill, are still happily propagating the myth that terrorism is the biggest threat currently facing the citizens of the UK.

Please note, of course, when/if such a plague is unleashed in Europe as an act of "Islamic Rage", the designer will be a quiet, unassuming Muslim biology student working on his PHD in a western university, and a search of his bedroom will reveal Al Queda or similarly themed literature. After that, Europeans will no longer grant such people an assumption of harmlessness.
You should send that idea to Hollywood; they'd lap it up.

... I, for one, pray nightly to the powers that be to stop this happening. Yes.

Personally, I don't see a good way out of any of it.

It looks like the UK is going to try and use the schizophrenic method:

1. encourage the more radical elements of islam within the UK, and encourage hate speech, and punish anyone who isn't muslim with the threat of hate speech prosecution if they speak up
2. conduct secret operations, arrests without trial, and arrests lots of radical islamists

it's as though with one hand, they're creating and encouraging the people they want to arrest... and arresting them with the other...

Seriously, the West is pissing in their pants over nothing. The Bogeyman has been replaced in the closet by Bin Ladin.

Lol, that's going to my sig...

1. encourage the more radical elements of islam within the UK, and encourage hate speech, and punish anyone who isn't muslim with the threat of hate speech prosecution if they speak up
2. conduct secret operations, arrests without trial, and arrests lots of radical islamists


:rolleyes:

Nobody has been arrested, read the bloody article! Your first point is absurd, I don't even think there is justification in addressing it.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5VMVZeVBlj0&feature=related ?
Good choice!
Usually not.

The question is, whose dictatorship would you rather live under.

The hopefully benevolent one, or the one you know will put you against the wall for not growing a beard or not wearing a blue beekeeper's outfit.
I'd rather no live under a dictatorship. So I simply won't give up my rights to fight the evil boogeyman that is terrorism.
This is a good song, but I think I'm going to go with 'Ernie (The Fastest Milkman In the West)'.

Excellent.

Personally, I don't see a good way out of any of it.
I do - eventually, the Muslims in the UK are going to integrate more with the culture here, and after that, things will be pretty much as good as they are with any other group.
It looks like the UK is going to try and use the schizophrenic method:
Not really, no.
1. encourage the more radical elements of islam within the UK, and encourage hate speech, and punish anyone who isn't muslim with the threat of hate speech prosecution if they speak up
I think not, especially since there have been calls from the government for more moderate Imams to be brought in from overseas. Yeah, Muslims probably get a bit more lenience than other residents when it comes to making hollow threats, but then that's because we understand that young, second-generation immigrants are in a bit of a cultural vacuum, and that many are turning to radical Islam in their late teens, early twenties, and then sort of giving it up when they get older.

Incidentally, the fact that the BNP is allowed to create incendiary leaflets about Muslims and give them to schoolchildren shows that tolerance for people being wankers extends to the white and poor, too.
2. conduct secret operations, arrests without trial, and arrests lots of radical islamists
Yes, so does almost every nation in Europe, as well as the US, Canada etc., although they usually charge people first.
it's as though with one hand, they're creating and encouraging the people they want to arrest... and arresting them with the other...
Could it be? The various 'security services' have families to feed and hence jobs to keep?

I'd rather no live under a dictatorship. So I simply won't give up my rights to fight the evil boogeyman that is terrorism.
Och but remember - if we don't make arrests without charge, the terrorists will take over our extremely well-established and well-defended systems of government, against the will of the vast majority of people, and will enforce their Islamic ways on us. Yes.

Och but remember - if we don't make arrests without charge, the terrorists will take over our extremely well-established and well-defended systems of government, against the will of the vast majority of people, and will enforce their Islamic ways on us. Yes.

With their Muslim POWERS!

With their Muslim POWERS!
IIRC, Turban is actually Arabic for "Mind control device". If they put a Turban on top of the Houses of Commons, Islam and the defense thereof will become the prime directive of every MP as soon as they enter the chamber. *nods*

With their Muslim POWERS!

You kid, but it's true. Has no one else seen the documentaries about the archaeologist, Henry Jones, Jr.?

You kid, but it's true. Has no one else seen the documentaries about the archaeologist, Henry Jones, Jr.?
Yes, and they convinced me that brown people and Nazis are basically the same thing.

You kid, but it's true. Has no one else seen the documentaries about the archaeologist, Henry Jones, Jr.?
I thought the main religious element in those was the Reich Church, no?

Yes, and they convinced me that brown people and Nazis are basically the same thing.
Aye, Islamofascists. Are you trying to call them seperate entities? Why do you hate freedom so, Chumbly?

I thought the main religious element in those was the Reich Church, no?

Isn't there one where the antagonists are people with darker skin? Maybe those were Hindus.

Isn't there one where the antagonists are people with darker skin? Maybe those were Hindus.
Voodoo, no?

You're also one of several people who didn't notice that he was printing the manual for a friend.


It's always "for a friend" isn't it?

That weed...no, that's not mine. It's my friend's.

That handgun? No, that's not mine. I'm...uh...holding it for a friend.

This car? No, no it's not mine. It's a friend's.

This perverted sex toy? No, it's not for me. It's for a friend.

Yeah.

Not buying it. In fact, the whole "for a friend" angle makes it even MORE fishy, not less.

GP

Not buying it. In fact, the whole "for a friend" angle makes it even MORE fishy, not less.
Thank you, Sherlock Holmes.

You should send that idea to Hollywood; they'd lap it up.

Hardly. Hollywood is no longer permitted to produce movies with blatantly Islamic Extremist villains. (the "Sum of All Fears" Act, which was later expanded with the the passage of the Comedy Central South Park Control Bill; also known as the Dear Lord, Never, Ever, Ever, Irritate the Muslims or They'll Go Freaking Nutzoid On Us Bill). They would keep the basic plot and rework it so the plague is produced by an Eeeevil Corporation.

And in classic Hollywood style, when finally confronted, the Eeeevil Corporate CEO will choose to go out in a blaze of gunfire, rather than simply wall himself behind lawyers.

These days, if you want comedy or drama that bluntly addresses Islamic terrorism, you have to get it from the Middle Eastern media. Western Media is too tame.

Of course, when we have actually won (hoping we do) you'll know; because then, Hollywood will be free to mock Radical Islam just as they feel free to make fun of Naziism. (give or take a take a generation- how many years was it between the Fall of Berlin and Springtime for Hitler?)

Excuse me. Am I the only one who realizes how little a terrorist instruction manual has to do with video compression techniques and computer science? Something's not adding up.
"This doesn't add up" works the other way too. This guy with PHD level knowledge in computers, chooses to download a terrorist handbook to do terrorist work, from his uni computer? WTF?If he was truly a terrorist, why didn't he use one of the many techniques of downloading and printing it anonymously.
I'm sure it's because he thought nothing of it. Obviously I don't know all the facts of the case (just like everyone else here), but the balance of probabilities suggest he isn't a terrorist, because no well educated terrorist could be dumb enough to download a manual they intend to use.
Real terrorists don't have to act covertly in the western nations because we're all a bunch of gullible, easily-led, media-fed buffoons. We are? Then how has this happened? The "you must give up all your liberties or Washington will be engulfed in a mushroom cloud" crowd have an agenda to push that viewpoint.
I'm getting real tired of living in the world you idiots have wrought and deserve.
I'm tired of living in a world that think civil liberties are inconveniences, not critical devices to stop totalitarianism and fascism.

Of course, when we have actually won...
Sorry, who is this 'we' and what are they attempting to 'win'?

but the balance of probabilities suggest he isn't a terrorist, because no well educated terrorist could be dumb enough to download a manual they intend to use.


I think we're going to have to disagree on this one, because I've seen too many well-educated people do incredibly stupid things when they attempt something outside their realm of expertise; Worse, the narrower their field of expertise, the more likely they are to think that their expertise extends to everything they do. It's intellectual arrogance more than stupidity that I believe causes otherwise highly intelligent people to do stupid things that require common sense.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but those in the computer industry seem to be the worst; I can only theorize that it's becuase they're used to dealing with the absolutes of programming, not the uncertain variables of human nature.

So to assume that just because someone is educated, or intelligent, that they would not make a practical mistake, especially if they are new at "this sort of thing" may or may not be valid.


We are? Then how has this happened. The "you must give up all your liberties or Washington will be engulfed in a mushroom cloud" have an agenda to push that viewpoint.


Why are we arguing? I AGREE WITH YOU. Not only do I agree with you, my very statement regarding gullible, easily-led buffoons applies to us all. Of COURSE they have an agenda, and we have LET THEM.


I'm getting real tired of living in the world you idiots have wrought and deserve.
I'm tired of living in a world that think civil liberties are inconveniences, not critical devices to stop totalitarianism and fascism.

Change "Civil Liberties" to "Human Rights" and I don't see how our two statements are in conflict at all.

The idiots have traded away our rights for illusionary security. The idiots have believed what the neocons have told them about "national security". The IDIOTS have given their ignorance reign.

Which is why they look for terrorists where there aren't any and they ignore the ones who will kill us all.

The only time a real terrorist gets caught is by sheer dumb luck.

This particular case looks like something like that.

GP

Which is why they look for terrorists where there aren't any and they ignore the ones who will kill us all.

The only time a real terrorist gets caught is by sheer dumb luck.

This particular case looks like something like that.


From what I can tell, he isn't under arrest for terrorism, the police invesitgation turned up nothing amiss. He's being deported for "inconsistencies in his application" which sounds highly suspicious, especially as they had originally decided to move it forward due to an "emergency". Now given that if there had been any real link to terrorist activity they would have either charged him or continued to hold him for the 28 days they can without charge, I am highly suspicious what "emergency" could promote such a swift deportation of an academic who has lived peacefully in this country for 10 years.

It's always "for a friend" isn't it?

That weed...no, that's not mine. It's my friend's.

That handgun? No, that's not mine. I'm...uh...holding it for a friend.

This car? No, no it's not mine. It's a friend's.

This perverted sex toy? No, it's not for me. It's for a friend.

Yeah.

Not buying it. In fact, the whole "for a friend" angle makes it even MORE fishy, not less.

GP

University officials called in the police after a colleague noticed the document on his computer. Yezza and his friend, 22-year-old student Rizwaan Sabir, were held for six days despite Sabir's tutors giving statements within two days that the document was directly relevant to his research.

I guess those tutors are terrorists too. They're all in on it, the whole university!

I guess those tutors are terrorists too. They're all in on it, the whole university!

Hence the charge being dropped then.

Hence the charge being dropped then.

Police are in on it too.