NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm a little confused by why people have an issue with letting others live their faith in the way they want. If you are not Catholic, it does not affect you, so I fail to see the reasoning of pretty much everyone in this thread.
Are there really people who honestly think that Catholicism doesn't impact anybody other than Catholics?

Because damn. I want to move to wherever you live. Where I live, Catholics shove their religion into my life all the goddam time. I would LOVE to not have to care about Catholicism. I deeply, passionately WISH that their faith didn't affect me. If they could live their faith without fucking up my world, I would be only too happy to ignore them completely.

Please, PLEASE, spread your message to the Catholics! Tell them to knock it the fuck off and keep their faith out of everybody's way!

Are there really people who honestly think that Catholicism doesn't impact anybody other than Catholics?

Because damn. I want to move to wherever you live. Where I live, Catholics shove their religion into my life all the goddam time. I would LOVE to not have to care about Catholicism. I deeply, passionately WISH that their faith didn't affect me. If they could live their faith without fucking up my world, I would be only too happy to ignore them completely.

Please, PLEASE, spread your message to the Catholics! Tell them to knock it the fuck off and keep their faith out of everybody's way!

Judging by your post, I really advise you start listening to them.

Judging by your post, I really advise you start listening to them.

Listen to Catholics! Ohh my.

Judging by your post, I really advise you start listening to them.
Yeah, that's what most of the Catholics say, but frankly I'm not inclined to trust the "judgment" of people who oppose the use of contraception and support child-rape.

Are there really people who honestly think that Catholicism doesn't impact anybody other than Catholics?

Because damn. I want to move to wherever you live. Where I live, Catholics shove their religion into my life all the goddam time. I would LOVE to not have to care about Catholicism. I deeply, passionately WISH that their faith didn't affect me. If they could live their faith without fucking up my world, I would be only too happy to ignore them completely.

Please, PLEASE, spread your message to the Catholics! Tell them to knock it the fuck off and keep their faith out of everybody's way!What's your problem? Extra holidays?

What's your problem? Extra holidays?
See, now YOU are just trolling, since you've been present many times when I've answered this question. :)

But that's okay. I'll probably end up repeating myself in this thread again. One of these times I'm sure you'll listen.

Listen to Catholics! Ohh my.
The thing is, I do listen to them. I don't really have much of a choice, where I live, but even if I did I would still choose to hear them out. The fact that I listen, assess, and conclude that they are wrong does not mean that I failed to listen. It means we don't agree. I don't see why that is so weird to some people.

The thing is, I do listen to them. I don't really have much of a choice, where I live, but even if I did I would still choose to hear them out. The fact that I listen, assess, and conclude that they are wrong does not mean that I failed to listen. It means we don't agree. I don't see why that is so weird to some people.

Ohhh myself I gave up on listening to them many years ago. It's like haveing a loveble but rougish friend, after a few years you have already heard all of their bullshit stories and just can't sit through it another time.

That's right when a Catholic starts to speak to me, I go to the bar to get a round in, metaphoricly speaking.

Ohhh myself I gave up on listening to them many years ago. It's like haveing a loveble but rougish friend, after a few years you have already heard all of their bullshit stories and just can't sit through it another time.

That's right when a Catholic starts to speak to me, I go to the bar to get a round in, metaphoricly speaking.
I certainly can't blame you for that. There are definitely times when a Catholic will start down a particular line of conversation and I politely cut them off and let them know that there's not really any chance of that being productive, so we should just preemptively agree to disagree. (Examples would include, "Why women should be content to stay in the home always" and "Contraception is the same as abortion.")

But I've had a number of intelligent and interesting Catholic friends, coworkers, and acquaintances, and thanks to them I remain open to the idea of conversing with Catholics on a wide range of subjects. It's always possible that somebody will offer up an idea or argument I haven't heard before.

The thing is, while I'm open to LISTENING, I'm not open to OBEYING. Which is what they usually mean when they say they want me to listen. I'm okay with listening to lots of people. That's why I choose to keep coming back to this forum, after all! I listen to racists, sexists, homophobes, the superstitious, conservatives, anti-choicers, and a whole host of other people I don't agree with. I talk with lots of people who have views diametrically opposed to mine. If I didn't want to hear them out, I wouldn't come here.

However, I'm not okay with them forcing me to agree, or with them forcing me to live my life according to their values, or with them forcing others to do so. I'm not okay with Catholics compelling anybody else to be Catholic or live in accordance with Catholic religious rules. That's not kosher in my world.

Yeah, that's what most of the Catholics say, but frankly I'm not inclined to trust the "judgment" of people who oppose the use of contraception and support child-rape.


Too far. Ignored.

Too far. Ignored.

Naaa I disagree, you do oppose the use of contraception, and it is well known that a lot of children have been sexualy abused by your preists and seemingly without any repercusions for said preists.

Too far. Ignored.

With the years spent hiding and puting offender priests in positions to cause more harm I dont think its too far from the mark

With the years spent hiding and puting offender priests in positions to cause more harm I dont think its too far from the mark
Yeah, I'm actually a bit surprised. Usually they don't add me to their ignore lists until I've started in on how the Catholic Church is perpetrating genocide in the third world. That is, at least, a debatable issue. The fact that the Church intentionally and knowingly helped child-rapists avoid prosecution and obtain fresh victims isn't remotely debatable...the Vatican has said as much. Of all the things to get mad at me about, it seems weird to pick the one that the Vatican specifically agrees with me on!

Yeah, I'm actually a bit surprised. Usually they don't add me to their ignore lists until I've started in on how the Catholic Church is perpetrating genocide in the third world. That is, at least, a debatable issue. The fact that the Church intentionally and knowingly helped child-rapists avoid prosecution and obtain fresh victims isn't remotely debatable...the Vatican has said as much. Of all the things to get mad at me about, it seems weird to pick the one that the Vatican specifically agrees with me on!

Yeah no kidding look at the priest that I had ... issues with... Molest kids in the 70's and they give him an entire elementry school in the 80's-90's

Yeah no kidding look at the priest that I had ... issues with... Molest kids in the 70's and they give him an entire elementry school in the 80's-90's
It's the retarded rule that priests are not allowed to have sex, let alone homosexual encounters - Bent up sexual energy is something that's not for everyone.

Catholic church is about 600 years out of touch with the modern world and too wealthy for its own good.

I think Father Ted is closer to the truth than they're willing to admit :p

Are there really people who honestly think that Catholicism doesn't impact anybody other than Catholics?

Because damn. I want to move to wherever you live. Where I live, Catholics shove their religion into my life all the goddam time. I would LOVE to not have to care about Catholicism. I deeply, passionately WISH that their faith didn't affect me. If they could live their faith without fucking up my world, I would be only too happy to ignore them completely.

Please, PLEASE, spread your message to the Catholics! Tell them to knock it the fuck off and keep their faith out of everybody's way!

It's totally the opposite over here. I went to a Catholic School and 99% of all the Catholics there never actually even muttered a word about their religion, and they picked on the 'Christians' (apparently they don't consider themselves Christian), as in those who actually believed Christ was God etc... Out of all the people of different religions I have met, Catholics (barring the actual Catholics who worked for the Church or taught RE) and Buddhists were the most 'non religious' religious people I have ever met.

Are there really people who honestly think that Catholicism doesn't impact anybody other than Catholics?

Because damn. I want to move to wherever you live. Where I live, Catholics shove their religion into my life all the goddam time. I would LOVE to not have to care about Catholicism. I deeply, passionately WISH that their faith didn't affect me. If they could live their faith without fucking up my world, I would be only too happy to ignore them completely.

Please, PLEASE, spread your message to the Catholics! Tell them to knock it the fuck off and keep their faith out of everybody's way!

Just out of curiosity, how do they affect you? As I recall we live fairly near one another and I've never had these problems.

It's totally the opposite over here. I went to a Catholic School and 99% of all the Catholics there never actually even muttered a word about their religion, and they picked on the 'Christians' (apparently they don't consider themselves Christian), as in those who actually believed Christ was God etc... Out of all the people of different religions I have met, Catholics (barring the actual Catholics who worked for the Church or taught RE) and Buddhists were the most 'non religious' religious people I have ever met.
Wouldn't surprise me if this sort of thing varies from region to region.

Where I grew up, for example, most Catholics and Christians were relatively quiet about their faith, but I think that was at least partly due to the fact that our town had a solid Jewish majority who had very definite ideas about how religion fits into public life. Faith was considered a private matter, and public religious displays were viewed as vulgar. A person who was loudly religious in public was looked on pretty much the same way as a person rubbing their genitals in public. It was assumed that everyone was spiritual/religion in their private life, but it wasn't something that a polite person spoke of at work or school or cocktail parties.

Until I went away to college, I was under the impression that most people were basically agnostic. Like, everybody seemed to identify as part of some religion or another, but it was mostly just a community thing and wasn't a very big deal. I knew there were some people who were really religious, but I thought they were a small minority and that most fundamentalism was a thing of the past. Now, going back home, I realize a lot of people in my community were (and are) very religious, it's just that their behavior kept it very private.

Just out of curiosity, how do they affect you? As I recall we live fairly near one another and I've never had these problems.
Seeing as how Catholics aren't campaigning to take away your reproductive rights, it doesn't surprise me that their activities don't directly impact you. You're also religious, I believe, so their attempts to force religion into public policy and government aren't going to conflict with your values the way they conflict with mine.

The Catholic church group in my area that recently held a public "pray-in" protest against gay marriage (prompted by the California ruling) and sent some kind of petition to the mayor's office probably wouldn't bother you the way it bothered me. When my gay friends seek to adopt a child and the publicly-funded Catholic adoption agency in the area refuses to work with them, that most likely doesn't impact you personally. I don't know if it even bothers you to know that your tax dollars support organizations which discriminate against gay citizens. The Catholic groups lobbying to get funding pulled from the free clinic where I worked are certainly impacting my life, and the lives of the many individuals who rely on those health care services, but I doubt you have ever visited the clinic let alone relied upon it for prenatal care. I'm sure you also weren't affected when the Catholic Church led the charge against a bill requiring that health care insurers cover prescribed contraceptives. I haven't yet read of a single instance where a pharmacist used the "conscience clause" excuse to refuse a man his prescriptions, either, so I know that you aren't going to be impacted by the Church's continued support for that.

To be clear, I'm not saying that Catholics shouldn't be free to impact public life in the same way that all citizens are free to do. I'm simply pointing out that they DO impact public life, and their actions very often directly conflict with my values. This means that their religion creates problems for me, because of the disagreements between our value system. In other words, I kind of have to care what they're up to, because my own legal rights and personal freedoms are directly impacted.

And this is, of course, leaving out all the Church's activities around the world. Those don't directly impact my personal space, but I'm unable to ignore things like Catholics teaching Nigerians that condoms cause AIDS. I'm lucky enough to never have been raped by a priest, but for some reason I can't seem to be okay with the fact that others are being raped by priests with the help of the Church. I'm a white middle class educated individual who will probably always be able to find a way to get contraception and abortion services if I need them, yet I'm still impacted by the fact that the Catholic Church works tirelessly to insure that poor minority women are denied access to these services. I believe these activities make this world a worse place for all of us, directly or indirectly.

Just out of curiosity, how do they affect you? As I recall we live fairly near one another and I've never had these problems.

I only get this sort of problem from Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses.

BTW, there are two Mormon boys on mission in my neighborhood. After several long conversations, they're thinking of becoming Pentecostals.

I only get this sort of problem from Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses.

BTW, there are two Mormon boys on mission in my neighborhood. After several long conversations, they're thinking of becoming Pentecostals.
Not sure why, but I've had very little contact with Mormons in the real world. Everybody talks about how the Mormons are so aggressive with their proselytizing, yet I don't seem to run into them much. I would think it has something to do with where I've lived, but I have friends and family members who've dealt with Mormons a lot...I guess maybe I send out some kind of anti-Mormon waves or something? :confused:

The history of the Church is nothing more than a massive story of reactionary stupidity. The Pope ran the last Medieval-style Jewish Ghetto in Europe until Garibaldi liberated Rome in 1871. Until 1914, the Church officially sanctioned the blood libel against Jews, and during the entire 19th century, the Church condemned religious pluralism, secularism, and republicanism. This current stance is nothing more than the Church having a paradigm consistently 100 years more backward than the rest of the West.

Not sure why, but I've had very little contact with Mormons in the real world. Everybody talks about how the Mormons are so aggressive with their proselytizing, yet I don't seem to run into them much. I would think it has something to do with where I've lived, but I have friends and family members who've dealt with Mormons a lot...I guess maybe I send out some kind of anti-Mormon waves or something? :confused:

Go live in the suburbs. You'll see Mormon boys in white shirts, black pants, on bicycles in the heat of summer.

It's fun to convert them away from being Mormons. I take advantage of the fact that they grew up repressed, and have never experienced the thrill of teen rebellion before. After a few visits, they're wanting to come to my church for a baptism in secret, and are casually denouncing their original church.

I only get this sort of problem from Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses.

BTW, there are two Mormon boys on mission in my neighborhood. After several long conversations, they're thinking of becoming Pentecostals.

Yeah I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

Not sure why, but I've had very little contact with Mormons in the real world. Everybody talks about how the Mormons are so aggressive with their proselytizing, yet I don't seem to run into them much. I would think it has something to do with where I've lived, but I have friends and family members who've dealt with Mormons a lot...I guess maybe I send out some kind of anti-Mormon waves or something? :confused:

Nah. if you haven't lived in your house/apartment for very long it might be on a 'do not solicit' list. I don't know how it was in the past but I can tell you the Church has some pretty clear policies about not generating ill will toward the Church by having Missionaries make a nuisance of themselves. If told to go away, they're supposed to do exactly that. If told not to come back, then your address goes on a list so they won't go back there for some set number of years. If the person who lived there before you told them to stay away, then that may be why you haven't been contacted.

Nothing personal ;)

(And yeah, I know your heart is breaking in two over it ;) )

Yeah, that's what most of the Catholics say, but frankly I'm not inclined to trust the "judgment" of people who oppose the use of contraception and support child-rape.

I wish you wouldn't say that, and not because it's not true, but because plenty of Catholics don't believe those things. In fact, for child-rape, I doubt there is a single Catholic who would admit to supporting it in theory. (In practice...not so much.)
But even the Church hierarchy is not a monolithic structure. It does change over time, does accept that it has been wrong (usually 300 years after the fact, but still...) and it does tolerate dissent. Often. As the subject of this thread shows, it can also be scarily intolerant. Because it claims its authority from tradition and because it advertises its age the same way a distillery does, I think people get the idea it's less open than it actually is.

Knowing as I do the workings of the missionary system, I can tell that this post is a pile of horseshit.

It's not horseshit. Would you like to meet the two in question?

Go live in the suburbs. You'll see Mormon boys in white shirts, black pants, on bicycles in the heat of summer.

It's fun to convert them away from being Mormons. I take advantage of the fact that they grew up repressed, and have never experienced the thrill of teen rebellion before. After a few visits, they're wanting to come to my church for a baptism in secret, and are casually denouncing their original church.

Knowing as I do the workings of the missionary system, I can tell that this post is a pile of horseshit.

Fi (http://synth.at.tut.by/pope-benedict-palpatine.jpg)xe (http://frafilm.blog.kataweb.it/files/2007/10/pope_palpatine.jpg)d. (http://themocker.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/pope_palpatine.jpg)

You don't really even need to doctor the photos:

Emperor (http://www.head-cleaners.com/palpatine.jpg)
Pope (http://www.hyscience.com/archives/Pope20Benedict20XVI_1.jpg)

Also, while searching for images I found one that pointed out the striking similarity between the younger Palpatine and Joe Lieberman. Coincidence?

It's not horseshit. Would you like to meet the two in question?

I'll call your bluff.

Yeah. Arrange a meeting.

I'll call your bluff.

Yeah. Arrange a meeting.

You'll have to promise you won't report them to your church. IN writing.

Not sure why, but I've had very little contact with Mormons in the real world. Everybody talks about how the Mormons are so aggressive with their proselytizing, yet I don't seem to run into them much. I would think it has something to do with where I've lived, but I have friends and family members who've dealt with Mormons a lot...I guess maybe I send out some kind of anti-Mormon waves or something? :confused:

You live near D.C., right? That is weird, Northern Virginia has also seemed to be the place most densely populated with Mormons (outside of Utah).

Seeing as how Catholics aren't campaigning to take away your reproductive rights....I believe these activities make this world a worse place for all of us, directly or indirectly.

This is exactly what I wanted to say, said better than I could.

That mentioned, it's completely true. The Catholic Church and its obsession with unfounded and silly beliefs causes humanity to suffer for the express purpose of forcing its paradigm and dogma upon the rest of us, no matter how irrational, damaging, or stupid. Not to say Catholicism is the worst as far as this goes, but it does some pretty bad things, like pretty much every religion out there.

So yes, they do affect us, the delusions held by people cause the society to turn to a reactionary and irrational system, and building societies off irrationalities fails miserably. People holding those values vote for other irrational people into office, leading the country to new Crusades in the Middle East and domestic policies based off a bronze age collection of mythology. If religion did not exist, humanity would be freed to deal with issues rationally, without the intrusion of dogma and superstition.

If religion did not exist, humanity would be freed to deal with issues rationally, without the intrusion of dogma and superstition.
Oh, really? Guess what geniuses came up with religion. Here's a hint: it wasn't the dolphins!

You'll have to promise you won't report them to your church. IN writing.

You best remind those boys that they don't want to go around denying that they've been baptized Christians...

Matthew 10:33
but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.

You best remind those boys that they don't want to go around denying that they've been baptized Christians...

Matthew 10:33
but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.

Shhh. I don't want to help their interrogators.

BTW, they no longer believe that the LDS Church is Christian.

You'll have to promise you won't report them to your church. IN writing.

You've just proven your lie for what it is and you don't even realize it. In reality I wouldn't have to report anything to anybody so sure, I'll make that promise. How do you want me to get that to you?

You've just proven your lie for what it is and you don't even realize it. In reality I wouldn't have to report anything to anybody so sure, I'll make that promise. How do you want me to get that to you?

Umm you just have?

You've just proven your lie for what it is and you don't even realize it. In reality I wouldn't have to report anything to anybody so sure, I'll make that promise. How do you want me to get that to you?

The two have said that if the church finds out, their parents will disown them.

Sorry, it's not a lie, and I've done a few Mormon kids every year.

Some of them have been disowned by their families.

Umm you just have?

I doubt a web posting would constitute 'in writing' as he means it.

Yeah. Arrange a meeting.
He just wants to show you his ding-dong!

EDIT> See:

I've done a few Mormon kids every year.
Perv.

Neo's a Mormon, and is offended that someone else is picking over his missionaries.

Yeah? So how about an answer to my question?

And I'd be very interested in knowing what uber argument you think you have there for magically shooting down missionaries.

Come to my church, and I'll show you. That's all it takes.

That, and the arguments you prepare your missionaries with (and the youth of your missionaries) makes them easy pickings.

The two have said that if the church finds out, their parents will disown them.

Sorry, it's not a lie, and I've done a few Mormon kids every year.

Some of them have been disowned by their families.

Yeah? So how about an answer to my question?

And I'd be very interested in knowing what uber argument you think you have there for magically shooting down missionaries.

He just wants to show you his ding-dong!

eeeeewwwwwwww.

You said they were baptized in secret at your pentecostal church... I was referring that they shouldn't keep that secret. I wasn't referring to the Mormon stuff.

Secret from their own families, who hopefully won't ask.

Shhh. I don't want to help their interrogators.

BTW, they no longer believe that the LDS Church is Christian.

You said they were baptized in secret at your pentecostal church... I was referring that they shouldn't keep that secret. I wasn't referring to the Mormon stuff.

You said they were baptized in secret at your pentecostal church... I was referring that they shouldn't keep that secret. I wasn't referring to the Mormon stuff.

You're surprised to find inconsistencies in his story?

You're surprised to find inconsistencies in his story?

Nothing inconsistent about not telling their parents or their former church.

This seems to be some kind of religious version of an internet tough guy contest.

Neo's a Mormon, and is offended that someone else is picking over his missionaries.

Actually I'm amused that you expect me to believe you. Frankly, the scenario you're describing is vanishingly unlikely due to the nature of the missionary life and structure. I could go into detail but I'm reluctant to help you refine your lie. Furthermore, if there were a couple guys who are lying to their families, mission leaders and congregation, then they're setting a piss poor example for Christianity regardless of denomination, and thus you'd have very little to brag about there.

Come to my church, and I'll show you. That's all it takes.

That, and the arguments you prepare your missionaries with (and the youth of your missionaries) makes them easy pickings.

Yeah? I've been to Pentacostal churches before. Give me the address and time of the service these guys attend and I'll see you on Sunday.

This seems to be some kind of religious version of an internet tough guy contest.

I'm just trying to call his bluff. No need to be tough, just gotta put up or shut up.

This seems to be some kind of religious version of an internet tough guy contest.

"Watch this! I can bear four crosses!"

"Watch this! I can bear four crosses!"

Uphill, in the snow! :flexes:

I love the new direction of this thread. Fight! Fight! :D

*sets ex-Mormon lion on Neo Brettonia*

I love the new direction of this thread. Fight! Fight! :D

*sets ex-Mormon lion on Neo Brettonia*

Lion? I ain't afraid of no steenking lions. I fight dragons, (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13737815&postcount=80) bizatches!

I Do love the way the pope is trying to destroy the catholic church before he has his appointment with St Peter.

Some vision by a saint said there'll only be one more pope.

All together now "Oh Happy Day"

Thats all well and good, but the saint in question also predicted that during the papcy the 'second Peter', the church will go through 'great trial and tribulation'. After this, the second coming of Christ will come, when all will be judged. Not really something I want to be around for (well, ill be there in spirit hopefully, but not in the physical!) ;)

He was enrolled in Hitler´s Youth. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI#Early_life_.281927.E2.80.931951.29)

That face of his reflects pure evil. I see him and my blood runs cold. If someone could be an emissary of the very Devil, Joseph Ratzinger is that emissary.

You must not have read all the article properly. Heres some of the paragraph:

"Following his fourteenth birthday in 1941, Ratzinger was enrolled in the Hitler Youth — as membership was required for all 14-year old German boys after December 1939 — but was an unenthusiastic member and refused to attend meetings. His father was a bitter enemy of Nazism, believing it conflicted with the Catholic faith, according to biographer John L. Allen, Jr. In 1941, one of Ratzinger's cousins, a 14-year-old boy with Down syndrome, was killed by the Nazi regime in its campaign of eugenics."

This tells us that he didnt want anything to do with Nazism.

:p

[Chumbluwumbly]He just wants to show you his ding-dong!
eeeeewwwwwwww.
And he won't even give you a steak dinner!

And he won't even give you a steak dinner!

Stingy bastitch...

I'm a little confused by why people have an issue with letting others live their faith in the way they want. If you are not Catholic, it does not affect you, so I fail to see the reasoning of pretty much everyone in this thread. For example, if the Church wants the next Pope to be an ACTUAL Nazi (unlike Benedict), that's the cardinals' decision, because it is their faith.

Hey, obsessively discussing to the nth degree things that you can't change and/or don't affect you is what the Internet is for! You're not trying to censor anybody are you?!

That face of his reflects pure evil. I see him and my blood runs cold. If someone could be an emissary of the very Devil, Joseph Ratzinger is that emissary.

Oh, good. I'm glad to see measured rationality prevail over hysterical paranoia for a change. :rolleyes: