NationStates Jolt Archive

In school today I watched this episode of Band of Brothers(for those of you who haven't seen it, the unit that is depicted in the series liberates a concentration camp...and this is all based on a true story.)

I have seen the entire series a few times before. Every time I watch it, this episode is always the one that gets me. Today I had to leave the room and go to the bathroom because I couldn't keep it together. Later when I was thinking about it, I broke down again. It makes me wonder how we can forget such a horrific event. When it happened, everyone said that this would never happen again. Now we have Darfur. What happened to never again?

Why is it that some people aren't bothered by the images from the death camps? Why don't people care? Why don't people consider the fact that these people are human being just like me. All of these thoughts have been on my mind today. I am just venting now.

Because it only matters when the wrong people die.

Oh its actuall very easy...

First you need to LEARN that those people ARE NOT like you.

from that everything is downhill...

How can you say that they aren't like us? Just because they aren't from the same country or soemthing like that doesn't mean they are that different. They are still people. Some people do deserve to die. But not a whole group of people over their beliefs or their heritage.

Basically because the people dying are not people that they know, and that's quite mutual.

I just don't understand how people can't care. Just because you don't know someone shouldn't mean that you shouldn't care.

How can you say that they aren't like us? Just because they aren't from the same country or soemthing like that doesn't mean they are that different. They are still people. Some people do deserve to die. But not a whole group of people over their beliefs or their heritage.

Im not saying they arent like us.

Im saying that if you can dehumanize people enough so they dont feel like those people they have to torture or kill are like them, its pretty easy to do it.

Now I understand what you mean. Like the Nazis with the Hitler Youth. I took a class on the holocaust. I saw what the Nazis did to turn their youth. The picture books and everything. I was disgusted.

we "let" it happen again because we have accepted that we arent the boss of the world and it is simply impossible to fix every hell hole everywhere. at best we can keep ourselves from mass murder. at worst we find better excuses for it.

we dont have control over the past and we dont have control over other countries. so many people dont think much about it since they cant do anyhthing about it.

I guess I can understand that arguement somewhat. I just think that there is a certain point where these "hell holes" need to be cleaned up. I am not saying every bad place, but certain areas where there are extremes. Liek Darfur. Hundreds of thousands are being killed because they are different. How can we stand by and watch? Genocide and things like civil wars are different things. Civil wars generally aren't killing people because of who they are ethnically and so on.

we "let" it happen again because we have accepted that we arent the boss of the world and it is simply impossible to fix every hell hole everywhere. at best we can keep ourselves from mass murder. at worst we find better excuses for it.

we dont have control over the past and we dont have control over other countries. so many people dont think much about it since they cant do anyhthing about it.

So...if YOU (not sure who YOU are? because its obviously there is a THEM implied) had control over other countries... genocides wont happen?

It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
Terry Pratchett, Jingo

So...if YOU (not sure who YOU are? because its obviously there is a THEM implied) had control over other countries... genocides wont happen?

If we did have World Hegemony (my we I mean a world government) Genocides would not happen unless approved by the Hegemony.

So...if YOU (not sure who YOU are? because its obviously there is a THEM implied) had control over other countries... genocides wont happen?

yes, if *I* had control over other countries i would not let them commit genocide.

**edit**

and yeah, it would have been better if i had put the WE in quotation marks too.

I think the last post just gave a great psycological insight into the minds of the people who commit the attrocities(not saying you are one of those wackos santiago, quite the opposite) see themselves as justified and doing right. I remember my history teacher talking about how Hitler truly believed he was doing right. I find that incredibly scary that people believe that.

If we did have World Hegemony (my we I mean a world government) Genocides would not happen unless approved by the Hegemony.


Would that make it right? NO. Just because people want it, doesn't amke it right.

I think the last post just gave a great psycological insight into the minds of the people who commit the attrocities(not saying you are one of those wackos santiago, quite the opposite) see themselves as justified and doing right. I remember my history teacher talking about how Hitler truly believed he was doing right. I find that incredibly scary that people believe that.

You dont think Im a wacko.... you dont know me. MUAWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

:mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5: :mp5:

There is nothing more dangerous that someone that thinks he is right.

More Terry Pratchett

'Putting up a statue to someone who tried to stop a war is not very, um, statuesque.
Of course, if you had butchered five hundred of your own men out of arrogant carelessness,
we'd be melting the bronze already.'

I think the last post just gave a great psycological insight into the minds of the people who commit the attrocities(not saying you are one of those wackos santiago, quite the opposite) see themselves as justified and doing right. I remember my history teacher talking about how Hitler truly believed he was doing right. I find that incredibly scary that people believe that.

hitler was a bad man but he is hardly the only bad man in history. what is it that you find scary?

whenever a leader suggests that going to war with another country is a great idea you need to think long and hard about whether or not that is true. its always put forth as the most moral course of action. it seldom is.

In school today I watched this episode of Band of Brothers(for those of you who haven't seen it, the unit that is depicted in the series liberates a concentration camp...and this is all based on a true story.)

I have seen the entire series a few times before. Every time I watch it, this episode is always the one that gets me. Today I had to leave the room and go to the bathroom because I couldn't keep it together. Later when I was thinking about it, I broke down again. It makes me wonder how we can forget such a horrific event. When it happened, everyone said that this would never happen again. Now we have Darfur. What happened to never again?

Why is it that some people aren't bothered by the images from the death camps? Why don't people care? Why don't people consider the fact that these people are human being just like me. All of these thoughts have been on my mind today. I am just venting now.

You have a good heart and an altruistic spirit. Make sure you never lose them.

1. i love band of brothers. gets to me too.

2. it hasn't happened again in the same places. the memory is still alive in western europe (at least that's my impression).

so those are two good things at least :)

I know it lives in some areas. But how can we claim to remember and then fail to act when something strikingly similar happens some place else?

As to Hitler being scary, he thought he was doing the world a favor with the "final solution". How can't you find it scary that someone can feel justified in ordering the deaths of as many as 11 million "undesirables"? The fact that there are people out there is scary. There have been bad people in history who didn't do stuff like genocides.

*Insert "the Holocaust never happened" rant, here*

No one cares when poor people die.

*cough* Rwanda *cough*

Very poor attempt at humor in a serious topic. I think we all know someone like that though.

That general attitude makes me sick. How can people not be important? How can a human life not have value?

Very poor attempt at humor in a serious topic. I think we all know someone like that though.

That general attitude makes me sick. How can people not be important? How can a human life not have value?
*Sighs*
This is my serious stance on this issue. Although genocide and mass murder are not to be forgotten or accepted as 'normal, they are an unstoppable way of mankind. Somewhere, always, there will be mass murder. It's happened since the beggining of man. I care about the people who died, but if you shed a tear for every child in Africa who dies, you'll end up a train wreck of emotion and pity. The best thing to do is to remind yourself and your children what happens and to never accept them ortake part, even if it's just your approval.

Yeah, I know I'm a callous (Pardon my language) bastard, I know.

I know it lives in some areas. But how can we claim to remember and then fail to act when something strikingly similar happens some place else?

As to Hitler being scary, he thought he was doing the world a favor with the "final solution". How can't you find it scary that someone can feel justified in ordering the deaths of as many as 11 million "undesirables"? The fact that there are people out there is scary. There have been bad people in history who didn't do stuff like genocides.

yeah some of them kill millions just to cement their own power.

That is generally my attitude. Lately(past 6 months) I have been noticing changes in myself. My attitude has been changing. I don't shed a tear over every child that dies in Africa. It just seems like something can or should be done to end the mass murders and stuff. I just think it is so horrific.

yeah some of them kill millions just to cement their own power.


True. Stalin was a truly evil man who did everything for power but never targeted a specific group except the Ukranians. The ones that really stick out as the bad ones are the ones who commited major attrocities. There are very bad people in American history that weren't genocidal.

How can Human life be so worthless?

Think about this for a second:

The current world wide population of humans is something like 6.7 billion according to Wikipedia.

That means that, as a species, a single human life is worth about 0.000000015% of the total worth of our species.

Human life is, in general, extremely worthless, to think otherwise is incredibly arrogant.

How can you say that life is worhtless? How can you put a numerical value on life? I think that it is attitudes like this that lead to stuff like genocides. When a life becomes just a number to a person, then you know there is something not right.

How can you say that life is worhtless? How can you put a numerical value on life? I think that it is attitudes like this that lead to stuff like genocides. When a life becomes just a number to a person, then you know there is something not right.

And yet that is just how humans seem to work. The average person can't visualize some 6.7 billion people as people. They see them as numbers or faceless representations of their nation/ethnicity/religion. Cardboard characters that are easily thrown out of consideration from any moral or ethical perspective.

When it's no longer personal, you can justify anything.

How can you say that life is worhtless? How can you put a numerical value on life? I think that it is attitudes like this that lead to stuff like genocides. When a life becomes just a number to a person, then you know there is something not right.

You can't put a purely numerical value on life. However insurance companies have been doing it forever. In this same thought I think people are not worth the same across the board.

In school today I watched this episode of Band of Brothers(for those of you who haven't seen it, the unit that is depicted in the series liberates a concentration camp...and this is all based on a true story.)

I have seen the entire series a few times before. Every time I watch it, this episode is always the one that gets me. Today I had to leave the room and go to the bathroom because I couldn't keep it together. Later when I was thinking about it, I broke down again. It makes me wonder how we can forget such a horrific event. When it happened, everyone said that this would never happen again. Now we have Darfur. What happened to never again?

Why is it that some people aren't bothered by the images from the death camps? Why don't people care? Why don't people consider the fact that these people are human being just like me. All of these thoughts have been on my mind today. I am just venting now.

Kudos on your expression of emotion.

"Never again" seems to have come with an asterisk which extends the original phrase to:

NEVER AGAIN*


*in such numbers, to caucasians.

In other words, either the body count must get astronomical or those being massacred or deliberately starved must become white. Probably both. I do not revel in this or make this statement lightly, it's just what I've observed needs to happen before any serious, lasting action is taken. It's shameful, and it saddens me, but that simply does not matter.

You can't put a purely numerical value on life. However insurance companies have been doing it forever. In this same thought I think people are not worth the same across the board.

Which explains my fundamental distrust of the insurance industry as a whole.

Im not saying they arent like us.

Im saying that if you can dehumanize people enough so they dont feel like those people they have to torture or kill are like them, its pretty easy to do it.

That explains why the Persians in the 300 movie were depicted as beasts.

Making one appear uncivilized, barbaric, fundamentalist has unsurpisingly the same effect.

The death of one man is a tragedy, the death of millions is a statistic

That's why nobody cares...

How can you say that life is worhtless? How can you put a numerical value on life? I think that it is attitudes like this that lead to stuff like genocides. When a life becomes just a number to a person, then you know there is something not right.
You absolutely cannot take every member of the world and its needs, desires, circumstances of life, goals, surroundings, education and so on and so forth in such detail, and with such a burden on your shoulds. You cannot live that way, and it's a futile aim in trying to do that at all.

You'll grow out of your moral intensity, sad as that may sound. I used to be a lot like you back when I was, ooh, 14 or so. Not so any more, because it takes such energy for such little tangible gain that it's not worth doing, especially not when I've got my own life to look after.

The simple message is
Countries get away with the mass murders because "Its not our problem" syndrome.
another reason is that we dont want to get involved.
another reason is that the countries doing the genocide ally themselves with a a security council member who would block any action being taken to stop it.

You could see the result of the first 2 in the Yugoslav wars of the early 90's where the UN sort of tried to have 'peacekeepers' and the EU tried to mediate a stop, then the pictures of those prisoner camps came out

Dachau in colour.
In Europe.
In 1992.

At this point what the world powers should have done is said to all 3 sides.. "Lay down your weapons in 3 days or we bomb the shit out of all of you.... any ceasefire breaks we bomb the shit out of you ,any more massacres we bomb the shit out of you. you will learn to behave like humans"

Instead we have various governments going 'oh dear thats bad' then going on a trip to a holiday resort to spend 4 weeks talking about what should be done. cue 3 more years of that.

It took the deaths of 8000 men and boys mostly shot at point blank range in the back of the head for the world to actually do something.

Then we get onto the last reason the fact small countries on a killing spree ally with a security council member and supply them with fuel,food or minerals knowing full well that the security concil member will block any attempt to stop the killing(except for a token gesture)

In conculusion, the world learned nothing from WW2 , in fact nowadays, if Hilter stayed inside the German borders he's have pretty much free reign to do what the hell he wanted to the population

In school today I watched this episode of Band of Brothers(for those of you who haven't seen it, the unit that is depicted in the series liberates a concentration camp...and this is all based on a true story.)

I have seen the entire series a few times before. Every time I watch it, this episode is always the one that gets me. Today I had to leave the room and go to the bathroom because I couldn't keep it together. Later when I was thinking about it, I broke down again. It makes me wonder how we can forget such a horrific event. When it happened, everyone said that this would never happen again. Now we have Darfur. What happened to never again?

Why is it that some people aren't bothered by the images from the death camps? Why don't people care? Why don't people consider the fact that these people are human being just like me. All of these thoughts have been on my mind today. I am just venting now.

Hamas leaders beat off to that episode. "Bother" all depends on what you think of the people who are dying.

Hamas leaders beat off to that episode.

And you know this, how exactly?

Never mind. I don't want to know.

You can't put a purely numerical value on life. However insurance companies have been doing it forever. In this same thought I think people are not worth the same across the board.Yeah, local women are worth more in South America than in the Middle East, according the the US Military. Though both are still not as valuable as men. Or a barn full of chickens.

You can't put a purely numerical value on life. However insurance companies have been doing it forever. In this same thought I think people are not worth the same across the board.

That I do understand and would agree with. Some people aren't worth much, like certain criminals and such. There is no way to quantify a human life.

The simple message is
Countries get away with the mass murders because "Its not our problem" syndrome.
another reason is that we dont want to get involved.
another reason is that the countries doing the genocide ally themselves with a a security council member who would block any action being taken to stop it.

You could see the result of the first 2 in the Yugoslav wars of the early 90's where the UN sort of tried to have 'peacekeepers' and the EU tried to mediate a stop, then the pictures of those prisoner camps came out

Dachau in colour.
In Europe.
In 1992.

At this point what the world powers should have done is said to all 3 sides.. "Lay down your weapons in 3 days or we bomb the shit out of all of you.... any ceasefire breaks we bomb the shit out of you ,any more massacres we bomb the shit out of you. you will learn to behave like humans"

Instead we have various governments going 'oh dear thats bad' then going on a trip to a holiday resort to spend 4 weeks talking about what should be done. cue 3 more years of that.

It took the deaths of 8000 men and boys mostly shot at point blank range in the back of the head for the world to actually do something.

Then we get onto the last reason the fact small countries on a killing spree ally with a security council member and supply them with fuel,food or minerals knowing full well that the security concil member will block any attempt to stop the killing(except for a token gesture)

In conculusion, the world learned nothing from WW2 , in fact nowadays, if Hilter stayed inside the German borders he's have pretty much free reign to do what the hell he wanted to the population

I'd just like to point out the glaring hypocrisy there. Not judging one way or the other, 'cause I can appreciate the sentiment, but still.

Cypresaria post

True! Oh, so true!

I'd just like to point out the glaring hypocrisy there. Not judging one way or the other, 'cause I can appreciate the sentiment, but still.

I admit the glaring hypocrisy

However there are times when diplomacy WILL NOT work and times when the world needs to stand up to countries that are causing havoc.

Burma is a fine example.

The UN should have passed a resolution 24 hrs after the generals refused aid being brought into the delta saying:

"We, The UN, will send food, water and medical aid to the survivors, any attempt to stop this will be regarded as an act of war against the UN and the UN forces will be empowered to use any and all means at their disposal to deliver and defend the aid"

Instead of which its stand around doing ritual hand wringing and saying what bad people the generals are while people starve to death.

We had no problem with area bombing Germany, no problem with the USSR treating german pows to harsh condictions ( eg 110 000 taken prisoner at Stalingrad, 5 000 survived ) because it was in the name of stopping a very nasty government.

The reason why people find it so easy to forget atrocities is much easier to understand when we contemplate how people find it so easy to commit atrocities.

We had no problem with area bombing Germany, no problem with the USSR treating german pows to harsh condictions ( eg 110 000 taken prisoner at Stalingrad, 5 000 survived ) because it was in the name of stopping a very nasty government.

Said very nasty government was going around making itself a nuisance to other nations and generally threatening to invade them. So it was a matter of self preservation.

Self preservation and territorial/resource ambitions with the exception of treaty obligations are the only two reasons why any country goes to war. Maybe in the old days of kings who could rule their entire kingdom by fiat, they could have gone to war over someone calling them names, but there was always that element of wanting something someone else had.

You could probably sell humane reasons for war to the general public, but those you'd never get it going past those who will actually make it possible, not unless there was something tangible for them to gain.

I admit the glaring hypocrisy

However there are times when diplomacy WILL NOT work and times when the world needs to stand up to countries that are causing havoc.

Burma is a fine example.

The UN should have passed a resolution 24 hrs after the generals refused aid being brought into the delta saying:

"We, The UN, will send food, water and medical aid to the survivors, any attempt to stop this will be regarded as an act of war against the UN and the UN forces will be empowered to use any and all means at their disposal to deliver and defend the aid"

Instead of which its stand around doing ritual hand wringing and saying what bad people the generals are while people starve to death.

We had no problem with area bombing Germany, no problem with the USSR treating german pows to harsh condictions ( eg 110 000 taken prisoner at Stalingrad, 5 000 survived ) because it was in the name of stopping a very nasty government.

if that were the way the UN worked, who would be a member?

and you might want to look into the timing of that going to war with germany thing. the countries that werent invaded (thus having no say over the timing) didnt jump right into it on the first day.

And you know this, how exactly?

Never mind. I don't want to know.

You should watch the TV shows that Hamas makes for its children. That's how I know.

You should watch the TV shows that Hamas makes for its children. That's how I know.

That war goes both ways, but Israel killing hundreds of people in a week and a 12 year old girl with a :sniper: you can't expect them to be saying nice things about their enemies.

Unless you do..

You should watch the TV shows that Hamas makes for its children. That's how I know.

Ooooooh you mean they have Hamas leaders actually masturbating, on their own TV shows?

Or, you know, you could just be imagining the 'beating off' part and claiming your sex/killing fantasies are 'knowledge.'

Yeah, I think the latter.

That war goes both ways, but Israel killing hundreds of people in a week and a 12 year old girl with a :sniper: you can't expect them to be saying nice things about their enemies.

Unless you do..

You don't see similar TV shows on Israeli TV, glorifying the genocide of Palestinians. Gee, I wonder why...

You should watch the TV shows that Hamas makes for its children. That's how I know.

And your advocation of sterilization of Muslims with your previous incarnation, is how we know you beat off to the idea of killing them.

I can make random accusations too.

And your advocation of sterilization of Muslims with your previous incarnation, is how we know you beat off to the idea of killing them.

I can make random accusations too.

Yours kinda sticks, however. DK also said once that killing Muslims was better than sex.

I can only imagine that either he's a very perverse, twisted man; that he's a complete lying troll; or that he's got some sort of sex problem that means that anything, even homicidal rage, feels better than sex to him. Are there any other possibilities I left out?

Yours kinda sticks, however. DK also said once that killing Muslims was better than sex.

I can only imagine that either he's a very perverse, twisted man; that he's a complete lying troll; or that he's got some sort of sex problem that means that anything, even homicidal rage, feels better than sex to him. Are there any other possibilities I left out?

That he's an even more twisted version of Hannibal Lector?

Yours kinda sticks, however. DK also said once that killing Muslims was better than sex.

I can only imagine that either he's a very perverse, twisted man; that he's a complete lying troll; or that he's got some sort of sex problem that means that anything, even homicidal rage, feels better than sex to him. Are there any other possibilities I left out?

You forgot "Trostia is under the assumption that NS General is an actual, honest intellectual exercise, and not some public joke"

You forgot "Trostia is under the assumption that NS General is an actual, honest intellectual exercise, and not some public joke"

Right, we'll take that as your admission to being a troll.

You forgot "Trostia is under the assumption that NS General is an actual, honest intellectual exercise, and not some public joke"

No, I was listing explanations for YOUR behavior. Do try to keep up.

Kudos on your expression of emotion.

"Never again" seems to have come with an asterisk which extends the original phrase to:

NEVER AGAIN*


*in such numbers, to caucasians.

In other words, either the body count must get astronomical or those being massacred or deliberately starved must become white. Probably both. I do not revel in this or make this statement lightly, it's just what I've observed needs to happen before any serious, lasting action is taken. It's shameful, and it saddens me, but that simply does not matter.

I have noticed that too. I hate the double standard. I can't believe the hypocricy.

You don't see similar TV shows on Israeli TV, glorifying the genocide of Palestinians. Gee, I wonder why...


Exactly right, they have the politicians to do that.