NationStates Jolt Archive

Okay, not really... I'll say the lowest legal form of life... right?

What occupation annoys you most?

Most people would say telemarketers, but I think bill collectors. I have to deal with them daily for my clients and they are pretty rank. I recently got a copy of a "summons" sent to one of my clients printed on collection company letterhead threatening criminal trial for not paying their bill. Okay, I get it, people should pay their bills, but seriously? That's gotta be some form of fraud.

I recently moved to a house and got a new phone number, the person who had my number before apparently didn't pay her bills either, I get about 19 calls a day from 3 different collection agencies. They threaten me even though I tell them I am not her and to quit calling me. They said the police were on their way, they said I was supposed to be in court tomorrow, they said that they would dock my paycheck if I didn't give them a post dated check right now.. I explained that it wasn't my debt and they said "of course it is, and we'll sue you if you don't pay right now."

:rolleyes:

Oh, and they are going to come take my car to cover my cell phone bill. :p Yeah, that's totally legal.

I called my district attorney and am trying to get them to stop calling me, but no such luck. They told the DA that he was "obstructing justice" and tried to get him to pay her bills. :eek:

Okay, not really... I'll say the lowest legal form of life... right?

What occupation annoys you most?

Lawyers!:eek:

Lawyers!:eek:

Oh sure, you all hate us until you need us.

Oh sure, you all hate us until you need us.

Meep!

You're the only lawyer I might not hate, Neesika.:fluffle:

I chose bill collectors.

A few of years ago I went through an extended period of unemployment (partly from being in jail ;) ) and when I was working again I started to slowly but surely pay my debts off. During this period you wouldn't believe the hassle and lies I heard from a variety of bill collectors. The last straw came when I had to start taking action to keep them off the phone when I'd get as many as 8 calls a day from one particular company. They were spamming my phone so much it caused me to lose the phone number for a job contact (This was before I was working again.) When next they called me I asked how in the hell I was supposed to pay them when their telephone spam was making me lose numbers to job interviews...

Of course, when I confronted them about it I was called a liar. "We never call more than three times a day..."

...as if even 3 calls a day were reasonable... Mind you, this was after I'd made arrangements to schedule a payment on a specific date.

My other favorite is when they try to tell you they have no control over their own computers. "Sorry sir, we can't stop the autodialer."

I'm a software developer and database programmer. I assure you, you can.

Meep!

You're the only lawyer I might not hate, Neesika.:fluffle:

That's because I can't stand lawyers either :D

Humans in general. Shame I am one...:headbang::headbang:

That's because I can't stand lawyers either :D

Come'ere you!:fluffle::fluffle:

I chose bill collectors.

A few of years ago I went through an extended period of unemployment (partly from being in jail ;) ) and when I was working again I started to slowly but surely pay my debts off. During this period you wouldn't believe the hassle and lies I heard from a variety of bill collectors. The last straw came when I had to start taking action to keep them off the phone when I'd get as many as 8 calls a day from one particular company. They were spamming my phone so much it caused me to lose the phone number for a job contact (This was before I was working again.) When next they called me I asked how in the hell I was supposed to pay them when their telephone spam was making me lose numbers to job interviews...

Of course, when I confronted them about it I was called a liar. "We never call more than three times a day..."

...as if even 3 calls a day were reasonable... Mind you, this was after I'd made arrangements to schedule a payment on a specific date.

My other favorite is when they try to tell you they have no control over their own computers. "Sorry sir, we can't stop the autodialer."

I'm a software developer and database programmer. I assure you, you can.

My husband used to work at a call center keeping their auto dialer running, they absolutely can control the thing, in fact they have to, the FTC has rules about how many times they can call a day. They also have rules that if you tell them to stop calling you, they have to.

As for the OP...well, I can't really fault most people for the way they make their living, even when said living can be annoying (telemarketing etc). However, when someone chooses a living intentionally desiring to fuck other people over, I think this is low. Therefore, my concept of lowest form of life is not specific to a profession, but rather to a personality type...the kind of person who becomes a cop so they can abuse their authority, the kind of businessman who is in it purely to rip of investors/workers, and so on. People who go out of their way to use whatever petty powers they have to treat other people like shit, whether they work at Wendy's, Revenue Canada, or at the local carwash.

It is essentially these bastards that promted me to go into law. It's amazing how quickly you can deflate the ego of a minor flunky who is erroneously quoting enabling legislation at you in order to justify their asshattery. With a minimum of research you can find out exactly what they can, and cannot do, and cut through the bullshit.

Lawyers!:eek:
Seconded
Oh sure, you all hate us until you need us.
Nah, don't think much of lawyers then either.

Oh sure, you all hate us until you need us.

You guys really need to work on your PR. Doctors are, in my personal experience, much more likely to have dickish qualities than the average but their PR seems to be much better

Seconded

Nah, don't think much of lawyers then either.

Yes, ignore those of us who do pro bono work, who actively pursue civil rights violators, who use our skills to incorporate charity associations and community leagues, who are there to help activists who have been arrested during protests...yes, let's just pretend all lawyers and wannabe lawyers are a bunch of souless, corporate whores who care only about money, and fucking you, personally, around.

I am surprised I am the first to say this.

Politicians

You guys really need to work on your PR. Doctors are, in my personal experience, much more likely to have dickish qualities than the average but their PR seems to be much better

Bah, here's how I looked at it. I am trained as a teacher, I love teaching, and I doubt I'll ever completely leave the profession. Very high on the respect scale. Very low in the pay department :P

So shove respect, gimmee the money :eek:

Na, just kidding. I don't really care that lawyers have a shit reputation...plenty lawyers deserve it. I think the main problem is the lack of understanding of what lawyers do. Doctors? Oh, well doctors help you, they deal with health, that's easy. Lawyers? We run the gamut from tax law, family law, criminal law, and everything inbetween...and if only we weren't there, ordinary people could totally deal with all those issue by themselves, right?

Okay, did I say lack of understanding? Also mixed with a little delusion I think.

I'm not sure if people in other places have this, but in Israel some charity works organizations contract people to call people to ask for donations (I suppose it's like telemarketers).

Anyway, those people kept harassing us for days until finally we told them that we don't donate through telephone anymore, only through mail. At one time they even lied to me to get my mother's work number so they could bother her there.

They're scum, and it sucks to think that maybe a percentage of the donations sent to the charity organizations go to their pockets.

Edit: Oh, I see there's an option on the poll similar to what I was talking about.

Oooh, I hate getting asked to donate to whatever when I'm at a store. Why the hell should I allow that store to raise tax-free charitable donations that it can use to save itself a shitload of money? I donate on my own and take the tax-creds, thanks. Helping WalMart avoid paying even more taxes is not on my to-do list. I always get a dirty look when I refuse though. Idiots.

City building code enforcers and plan inspectors. Some get just a wee bit too power-happy.

Bah, here's how I looked at it. I am trained as a teacher, I love teaching, and I doubt I'll ever completely leave the profession. Very high on the respect scale. Very low in the pay department :P

So shove respect, gimmee the money :eek:

Na, just kidding. I don't really care that lawyers have a shit reputation...plenty lawyers deserve it. I think the main problem is the lack of understanding of what lawyers do. Doctors? Oh, well doctors help you, they deal with health, that's easy. Lawyers? We run the gamut from tax law, family law, criminal law, and everything inbetween...and if only we weren't there, ordinary people could totally deal with all those issue by themselves, right?

Okay, did I say lack of understanding? Also mixed with a little delusion I think.

I like my lawyer because when people give me shit he sends them letters that are very "you know you're full of shit right?" and then they leave me alone.

Scientologists?

Oh sure, you all hate us until you need us.

Only because you lawyers have made it a law to need you....

Only because you lawyers have made it a law to need you....

Totally d00d. Cops would never wail on you or conduct illegal searches if it weren't for lawyers!

I'm with Neessika on that though I picked the HOA thugs on the poll.

I think the lowest form of life is obviously the Virus...

Afterall there is still debate as to whether it is alive at all...

Celebrity spokespeople. You know, the willfully ignorant morons who are paid to support causes without knowing one single thing about what they're supporting. The ones who misrepresent science and misquote everyone. The ones who make a desirable cult of ignorance and stupidity. The ones who expect everyone to pay for their ideas exept themselves. Yeah, those people - and the encephaloid idiots who actually listen to them because, "they're celebrities, they must know what they're talking about."

HOA thugs run a close second.

Oh sure, you all hate us until you need us.

I hate the type of lawyers who get criminals out of trouble because they're so good at what they do. I know some criminals will pay a ton of money for a good lawyer, but if they are really guilty, they should be punished. Come on lawyers, don't be mercenaries. Don't sell your abilities to the highest bidder, regardless of whether they are good or bad!
True justice would be detective work. Find the evidence and interview witnesses, suspects, and experts. Two lawyers going head to head, with the winner getting more money can never be the answer for true justice!

Adherents of abrahamic religions.

I'm with Neessika on that though I picked the HOA thugs on the poll.

There is something very wrong in my brain today with the fact that I pay these people to annoy me. I got a letter that our HOA fees are going up 10% to cover them rebuilding the stairs and repainting the siding, which leaves my curtains the "wrong shade" and I have to replace them in 30 days or pay $40. Fucking idiots.

Beige is beige is beige. Until they need $40 that is.

My husband used to work at a call center keeping their auto dialer running, they absolutely can control the thing, in fact they have to, the FTC has rules about how many times they can call a day. They also have rules that if you tell them to stop calling you, they have to.

This is true. And usually when a telemarketer or on occasion even a bill collector finally tosses out the straw that breaks the camel's back, I start asking questions that scare the hell out of them like:

"What's your name?"
"What's your supervisor's name?"

And then I demand to talk to their supervisor. Sometimes I threaten them with an attorney. At that point they usually hang up on me and that's the end of it.

You guys really need to work on your PR. Doctors are, in my personal experience, much more likely to have dickish qualities than the average but their PR seems to be much better

That's very true. I think people cut them slack because having a physical ailment can be a very scary thing, and the doctor makes it all better. At that moment they look more like a savior than anything else.

I used to be an auto mechanic, and it always struck me funny the similarities and differences between the way people approach their mechanic and their doctor.

Mechanic: if it's not fixed right the first time, they must take it back and fix it again for free. Sometimes even with a partial or full refund of the original money spent. If repair costs exceed the original estimate by more than 10% then the owner must give permission before the mechanic proceeds, otherwise it will be free.

Doctor:If it's not fixed right the first time, you must pay for them to try again. If the treatment costs more than was originally thought, you better hope your insurance will cover it.

It seems to me the mechanic has much more incentive to be careful and get it right the first time than the doctor does.

I hate the type of lawyers who get criminals out of trouble because they're so good at what they do. I know some criminals will pay a ton of money for a good lawyer, but if they are really guilty, they should be punished. Come on lawyers, don't be mercenaries. Don't sell your abilities to the highest bidder, regardless of whether they are good or bad!
True justice would be detective work. Find the evidence and interview witnesses, suspects, and experts. Two lawyers going head to head, with the winner getting more money can never be the answer for true justice!

I just don't like criminal law, period.

But I disagree with you, telling lawyers to take over the jobs of judge and jury. It's not the lawyer's job to decide the guilt of a person, and in fact, if the lawyer knows his or her client is guilty, said lawyer is not allowed to go spilling their guts to anyone about it.

If lawyers didn't play the role they did, then the justice system couldn't work, period. You might not like it, but the lawyer is there to advocate, not judge.

Some lawyers don't want to play that role, and involve themselves in alternatives, such as restorative justice initiatives etc. If you're the kind of person who can knowingly represent a person despite their clear guilt, then good...we do need people to fill that position. I couldn't, hence my refusal to practice anything but very cursory criminal law.

I just don't like criminal law, period.

But I disagree with you, telling lawyers to take over the jobs of judge and jury. It's not the lawyer's job to decide the guilt of a person, and in fact, if the lawyer knows his or her client is guilty, said lawyer is not allowed to go spilling their guts to anyone about it.

If lawyers didn't play the role they did, then the justice system couldn't work, period. You might not like it, but the lawyer is there to advocate, not judge.

Some lawyers don't want to play that role, and involve themselves in alternatives, such as restorative justice initiatives etc. If you're the kind of person who can knowingly represent a person despite their clear guilt, then good...we do need people to fill that position. I couldn't, hence my refusal to practice anything but very cursory criminal law.

When Shakespeare said "First let's kill all the lawyers," he was being sarcastic. It was said with the full realization that we need lawyers in order to maintain the rule of law and avoid such things as government by fiat. That said, some lawyers are scum - they usually end up in politics.

I hate the type of lawyers who get criminals out of trouble because they're so good at what they do. I know some criminals will pay a ton of money for a good lawyer, but if they are really guilty, they should be punished. Come on lawyers, don't be mercenaries. Don't sell your abilities to the highest bidder, regardless of whether they are good or bad!
True justice would be detective work. Find the evidence and interview witnesses, suspects, and experts. Two lawyers going head to head, with the winner getting more money can never be the answer for true justice!

I'm gonna stand up for lawyers here.

Defense attorneys are not the scum they're depicted as on shows like Law&Order. Their job is to keep the DA and the police honest. If Defenders weren't as picky as they are then the DA/cops would have the maneuvering room to get away with civil rights violations anytime they want.

Does that mean sometimes the guilty go free? Yep, but that's the price. Who was it that said "it is better to let 100 guilty men go free than to imprison a single innocent?"

Adherents of abrahamic religions.

Trolls.

There is something very wrong in my brain today with the fact that I pay these people to annoy me. I got a letter that our HOA fees are going up 10% to cover them rebuilding the stairs and repainting the siding, which leaves my curtains the "wrong shade" and I have to replace them in 30 days or pay $40. Fucking idiots.

Beige is beige is beige. Until they need $40 that is.

I've never understood why people willingly go into communities with a HOA. I mean after all, it's YOUR house.

I know the idea behind HOA rules, I just don't see myself ever getting into one.

My mom lives in a Co-Op which is similar, and she has more rules and restrictions on what she can do than I have, and I live in an apartment!

That said, some lawyers are scum - they usually end up in politics.

Although after two years at Law school, I'm not sure what came first...the politician or the lawyer. It seems like many of my classmates began with political aspirations, and law was the best way for them to really get into politics. They could give a shit about the law, it's all about making contacts.

Telemarketers. Yeah I know it's just a job, but you shouldn't take a job where your entire purpose is to fuck with people. Not to mention the quite large percentage of them who are bold faced liars and not very fucking good at it. They call here constantly trying to get my boss. Fucking annoying.

I think politicians are also some of the lowest life forms there are. I mean, who can stand those empty promises and those Colgate-bleached smiles of theirs? I know I can't.

Any soldier who does it for the money.

Or those people on the city council who go around and tell you what color your house can be. I WANT AQUAMARINE NOW!

Totally d00d. Cops would never wail on you or conduct illegal searches if it weren't for lawyers!
Not quite what I meant. I mean the whole practicing law without a licesence deal.

I hate the type of lawyers who get criminals out of trouble because they're so good at what they do. I know some criminals will pay a ton of money for a good lawyer, but if they are really guilty, they should be punished. Come on lawyers, don't be mercenaries. Don't sell your abilities to the highest bidder, regardless of whether they are good or bad!
True justice would be detective work. Find the evidence and interview witnesses, suspects, and experts. Two lawyers going head to head, with the winner getting more money can never be the answer for true justice!The Constitution says the accused have the right to representation. Some lawyer has to do it.

Not quite what I meant. I mean the whole practicing law without a licesence deal.

Yes, so unfair that. I suppose we should only force other professions to ensure that their members adhere to certain standards...you know, just teachers, doctors and so on and so forth...not lawyers. Because anyone should be able to do the work of a lawyer without training, or accreditation. Makes TOTAL sense.

Except it doesn't.

The Constitution says the accused have the right to representation. Some lawyer has to do it.

Yeah, but apparently that lawyer should judge his client guilty or not first.

The only people I know in the NS world whom i sthe lowest form of Life is the Moderators

The only people I know in the NS world whom i sthe lowest form of Life is the Moderators

No, really, it's the trolls.

The only people I know in the NS world whom i sthe lowest form of Life is the Moderators

Quick!:eek:

Hide the n00b before the Mod monster eats him/her!!:eek:

Liars. People who dedicate their careers to saying things they know are lies and sometimes even fighting for causes they know aren't good. Those who don't just commit fraud but become frauds themselves and do it merely for money. These are found not only among lawyers but also sometimes among lobbyists, marketers, spin doctors, spokespersons and worst of all bribed scientists.

I can understand politicians, at least they believe they are the doing the right thing. What I just can't imagine is how someone could for example fight/lobby for unfair laws, no matter how much that pays.

I just don't like criminal law, period.

But I disagree with you, telling lawyers to take over the jobs of judge and jury. It's not the lawyer's job to decide the guilt of a person, and in fact, if the lawyer knows his or her client is guilty, said lawyer is not allowed to go spilling their guts to anyone about it.

*But what I'm saying is that lawyers are not needed and neither is a jury--just a panel of professional judges and detectives presenting their case.

If lawyers didn't play the role they did, then the justice system couldn't work, period. You might not like it, but the lawyer is there to advocate, not judge.

*And there is no need to "advocate," only to judge based on the evidence; plus the testimonials of witnesses, suspects, and experts.

Some lawyers don't want to play that role, and involve themselves in alternatives, such as restorative justice initiatives etc. If you're the kind of person who can knowingly represent a person despite their clear guilt, then good...we do need people to fill that position. I couldn't, hence my refusal to practice anything but very cursory criminal law.

*Good for you, but we do not "need people to fill that position," of knowingly representing a person despite their clear guilt. We only need to punish the guilty. And this is why I hate lawyers--at least the kind that we were just talking about. Other people probably hate them for different reasons. Now I'm sure you'll just write me off as a know-nothing but that is my opinion and I don't care what other people think about me!

If it ever comes to a situation where whoever has the more expensive lawyer wins the case then I think people perhaps should not be able to chose their own lawyer in criminal law, although I can understand that this will completely fuck up law firms.

Yes, so unfair that. I suppose we should only force other professions to ensure that their members adhere to certain standards...you know, just teachers, doctors and so on and so forth...not lawyers. Because anyone should be able to do the work of a lawyer without training, or accreditation. Makes TOTAL sense.

Except it doesn't.

Except I don't agree with forcing them not to teach/medicene/whatever. Just be forced to tell people beforehand that they don't have such-and-such a degree.

*Good for you, but we do not "need people to fill that position," of knowingly representing a person despite their clear guilt. We only need to punish the guilty. And this is why I hate lawyers--at least the kind that we were just talking about. Other people probably hate them for different reasons. Now I'm sure you'll just write me off as a know-nothing but that is my opinion and I don't care what other people think about me!

Well here's something else I disagree with you about. I don't think justice should be only about punishment. In fact, I think punishment should be a small, very small fraction of what justice is about. I think what is much more important is restorative justice, and if you simply write off your client as 'guilty' and cheer while he's 'punished', you deny any possibility of making a change.

I'm not writing you off as a know-nothing, I just don't think you've actually considered the issue in depth.

Except I don't agree with forcing them not to teach/medicene/whatever. Just be forced to tell people beforehand that they don't have such-and-such a degree.

And be damned with the consequences, buyer beware?

Who is going to ensure that so and so tells you before hand that they aren't ACTUALLY a lawyer/doctor/whatever? And if they fuck up, how do you hold them accountable? Or is it all on your head because you chose someone who wasn't qualified?

Hey, while we're at it, let's get rid of health and safety standards too. They're just too draconian. Sid the butcher should be able to cut up meat in the midst of a rubbish heap as long as he TELLS you.

You guys do know that there is absolutely nothing your HOA can do if you refuse to do what they say? I've owned 2 houses in HOA sub-divisions, and I have NEVER paid a fee or done anything more than given a glance at their "warnings" before throwing it in the trash :)

You guys do know that there is absolutely nothing your HOA can do if you refuse to do what they say? I've owned 2 houses in HOA sub-divisions, and I have NEVER paid a fee or done anything more than given a glance at their "warnings" before throwing it in the trash :)
Actually my HOA can put a lien on my house and if it's not satisfied in 3 months they can begin foreclosure.

I've never understood why people willingly go into communities with a HOA. I mean after all, it's YOUR house.

I know the idea behind HOA rules, I just don't see myself ever getting into one.

My mom lives in a Co-Op which is similar, and she has more rules and restrictions on what she can do than I have, and I live in an apartment!

If you want to live in my city, and you don't want to be in a neighborhood that is high crime, you have to live in a neighborhood with an HOA.

Police.

Missionaries

Prostitutes who are actually police.

What occupation annoys you most?

Serial killer.

Serial killer.

*sobs*

You people don't understand what we go through for your sakes!

Most people would say telemarketers, but I think bill collectors. I have to deal with them daily for my clients and they are pretty rank. I recently got a copy of a "summons" sent to one of my clients printed on collection company letterhead threatening criminal trial for not paying their bill. Okay, I get it, people should pay their bills, but seriously? That's gotta be some form of fraud.

I recently moved to a house and got a new phone number, the person who had my number before apparently didn't pay her bills either, I get about 19 calls a day from 3 different collection agencies. They threaten me even though I tell them I am not her and to quit calling me. They said the police were on their way, they said I was supposed to be in court tomorrow, they said that they would dock my paycheck if I didn't give them a post dated check right now.. I explained that it wasn't my debt and they said "of course it is, and we'll sue you if you don't pay right now."

:rolleyes:

Oh, and they are going to come take my car to cover my cell phone bill. :p Yeah, that's totally legal.

I called my district attorney and am trying to get them to stop calling me, but no such luck. They told the DA that he was "obstructing justice" and tried to get him to pay her bills. :eek:
See, stuff like that? I don't get it. If you TOLD them what the situation was and if you told them that you could PROVE it to them (e.g. let them come by and you show them your ID) how could they STILL go on like that?

I mean, I obviously believe you that this is really what happened, but at the same time I totally can't believe this is really what happened. If that makes sense.

I think Merchant Bankers are lower than lawyers.

I chose bill collectors.

A few of years ago I went through an extended period of unemployment (partly from being in jail ;) ) and when I was working again I started to slowly but surely pay my debts off. During this period you wouldn't believe the hassle and lies I heard from a variety of bill collectors. The last straw came when I had to start taking action to keep them off the phone when I'd get as many as 8 calls a day from one particular company. They were spamming my phone so much it caused me to lose the phone number for a job contact (This was before I was working again.) When next they called me I asked how in the hell I was supposed to pay them when their telephone spam was making me lose numbers to job interviews...

Of course, when I confronted them about it I was called a liar. "We never call more than three times a day..."

...as if even 3 calls a day were reasonable... Mind you, this was after I'd made arrangements to schedule a payment on a specific date.

My other favorite is when they try to tell you they have no control over their own computers. "Sorry sir, we can't stop the autodialer."

I'm a software developer and database programmer. I assure you, you can.

I've worked in a call center before (not as a bill collector). I assure you that the person on the other end of the phone CAN NOT. I'm sure his/her BOSS could do so, but they probably won't. The person actually calling you however has no control at all over the autodialer.

Most people would say telemarketers, but I think bill collectors. I have to deal with them daily for my clients and they are pretty rank. I recently got a copy of a "summons" sent to one of my clients printed on collection company letterhead threatening criminal trial for not paying their bill. Okay, I get it, people should pay their bills, but seriously? That's gotta be some form of fraud.


It is, I'm pretty sure. I was almost part of a class action lawsuit against a company that did that (but I didn't send in the response card thingy). You should hand all that stuff to your lawyer, though if they tried to collect from the DA...thats nutty. I have shit ball credit and collection agents call me from time to time but it never got that bad. They do lie to me constantly, and when I catch them I say, "Why should I bother making an arrangement with you when you're being dishonest with me? I'll jump through hoops and you'll just be calling me again next week making threats." Hanging up usually follows.

Oh sure, you all hate us until you need us.
I love lawyers. I have lawyer friends.

I vote clergy.

Telemarketers I can handle, I usually just tell them to politely fuck off and they don't bug me for awhile. What I don't like is door to door solicitors. Sure I'll buy the chocolate bar from the little girl no problem, but we often get people collecting data for surveys. One time I answered the door and politely told the person I was busy and went to shut the door. The person actually had the nerve to stick their foot in the door. I threw the door open so fast and pushed the guy off my step on his ass. Sure enough, a few hours later, the police came knocking on my door. I told them that I was afraid the man was a scam artist posing as a solicitor and I wasn't charged.

Meep!

You're the only lawyer I might not hate, Neesika.:fluffle:

*cough*

Commies! Is Commies I say!

J/K!

*cough*

You don't want to come across as desperate.

Try a more inconspicious cough.

Like so: *cgh*

And be damned with the consequences, buyer beware?

Who is going to ensure that so and so tells you before hand that they aren't ACTUALLY a lawyer/doctor/whatever? And if they fuck up, how do you hold them accountable? Or is it all on your head because you chose someone who wasn't qualified?

Hey, while we're at it, let's get rid of health and safety standards too. They're just too draconian. Sid the butcher should be able to cut up meat in the midst of a rubbish heap as long as he TELLS you.
Indeed. Caveat Emptor.
Remove the safety standards. Haven't you ever heard of the "invisible hand"?

I'm 100% serious about this.

It is, I'm pretty sure. I was almost part of a class action lawsuit against a company that did that (but I didn't send in the response card thingy). You should hand all that stuff to your lawyer, though if they tried to collect from the DA...thats nutty. I have shit ball credit and collection agents call me from time to time but it never got that bad. They do lie to me constantly, and when I catch them I say, "Why should I bother making an arrangement with you when you're being dishonest with me? I'll jump through hoops and you'll just be calling me again next week making threats." Hanging up usually follows.

A bill collector of one of my clients once claimed they were going to put a lien on her house over a $130 cell phone bill. They told her they were going to come take it away, and everything inside. I called them on her behalf and told them they were full of shit and that if they would kindly quit contacting her at work we would pay the bill in full the next month. They called me a bitch and hung up on me.

Indeed. Caveat Emptor.
Remove the safety standards. Haven't you ever heard of the "invisible hand"?

I'm 100% serious about this.

Yeah, we have heard about the "invisible hand". And fortunatly for us, we've progressed sufficiently in our education to learn why unfettered and unregulated capitalism is a horrible idea.

Unfortunatly, you've only gotten to the first part so far.

Lawyers. Or politicians.

Lawyers.

Philadelphia Lawyer

Way out in Reno, Nevada,
Where romance blooms and fades,
A great Philadelphia lawyer
Was in love with a Hollywood maid.

"Come, love, and we'll go ramblin'
Down where the lights are so bright.
I'll win you a divorce from your husband,
And we can get married tonight."

Wild Bill was a gun-totin' cowboy,
Ten notches were carved in his gun.
And all the boys around Reno
Left Wild Bill's maiden alone.

One night when Bill was returning
From ridin' the range in the cold,
He dreamed of his Hollywood sweetheart,
Her love was as lasting as gold.

As he drew near her window,
Two shadows he saw on the shade;
'Twas the great Philadelphia lawyer
Makin' love to Bill's Hollywood maid.

The night was as still as the desert,
The moon hangin' high overhead.
Bill listened awhile through the window,
He could hear ev'ry word that he said:

"Your hands are so pretty and lovely,
Your form's so rare and divine.
Come go with me to the city
And leave this wild cowboy behind."

Now tonight back in old Pennsylvania,
Among those beautiful pines,
There's one less Philadelphia lawyer
In old Philadelphia tonight.

Lawyers.. bah!

If you have agreed to pay your bills and cannot pay them, it's hardly the bill collectors' fault for ensuring you do.

Also Lawyers only uphold the law politicians and subsequently the electorate have previously set, if anyone, you must blame the latter first.

Yeah, we have heard about the "invisible hand". And fortunatly for us, we've progressed sufficiently in our education to learn why unfettered and unregulated capitalism is a horrible idea.

Unfortunatly, you've only gotten to the first part so far.
I call Ad hominem circumstantial. Just because you're a lawyer dosen't mean you know everything. Your opinon is not always right. Just because something hasn't worked before dosen't mean it won't work at a later point in time, when society has changed.

I call Ad hominem circumstantial. Just because you're a lawyer dosen't mean you know everything. Your opinon is not always right. Just because something hasn't worked before dosen't mean it won't work at a later point in time, when society has changed.

As a lawyer, everything you're supposed to know in the courtroom should be the law. Similarly, your opinion on the law should be identical as any other lawyer as the law, regardless of state or nationhood, is not intended to be open for interpretation. Regrettably, that is not always the case, however competition between lawyers over knowledge of the law may be understood to promote a better knowledge of the written doctrine.

I call Ad hominem circumstantial. Just because you're a lawyer dosen't mean you know everything. Your opinon is not always right. Just because something hasn't worked before dosen't mean it won't work at a later point in time, when society has changed.

You're quite right. It certainly does not mean I know everything.

However given that the emergence of post colonial developing economics and the competing theories underpinning economic evolution of those nations, and the stragegies and implementation of those theories both on a domestic and international stage was the topic of my honors thesis from Yale, I'm fairly certain that it's safe to assume that I know more about economics and Adam Smith than a...what...high school junior?

You guys really need to work on your PR. Doctors are, in my personal experience, much more likely to have dickish qualities than the average but their PR seems to be much better

That's because if a Doctor is an asshole he gets sued for malpractice (whether or not its his fault) when a lawyer is an asshole he gets hired. Possibly to sue the doctor.

Yes, ignore those of us who do pro bono work, who actively pursue civil rights violators, who use our skills to incorporate charity associations and community leagues, who are there to help activists who have been arrested during protests...yes, let's just pretend all lawyers and wannabe lawyers are a bunch of souless, corporate whores who care only about money, and fucking you, personally, around.

That's because you're so easy to forget.

I work at the IRS (and so may receive a vote in this poll) and speak with lawyers every day. Some of them are quite nice, and those usually work at Legal Aid. I remember that happening once or twice, but not the circumstances.

Most are to-the-point/ borderline terse but efficiently professional and respectful. I don't remember a single one of them.

Some are complete assholes, not in dogged defense of their clients' welfare, but simply in their insistence that things should be done the way they want them done instead of by the established procedures, and their efforts to bully people into giving them their way. Those are the ones I remember. In fact, some of them are actually famous at the IRS for their lousy attitudes.

Of course, being government bureaucrats we have the luxury of chuckling at them and telling them that things will be done our way or not at all. But not a lot of people find themselves in that position when dealing with lawyers.

And sadly, some of us take that luxury and abuse it with ordinary people who are simply frustrated, confused, or even scared. Which is why I won't argue if we get a vote here.

1. Real estates agents who work on rentals: GAHH!!! We're the ones paying $450 a week... when we tell you that the stove is broke/hot water is screwed/house is about to fall down you think you could just get someone out here. Yes, the landlord is a stinge but why the hell should we be the ones inconvenienced???

2. Land lords... You don't pay any attention to the state of the house unless it is to complain about us not cutting the lawn BECAUSE WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF EXAMS AND WE HAVENT HAD A CHANCE but fail after been notified 4 months ago and every week since then that somehting is broken to fix it...

3. Security guards. Seriously, is there any less useful people around? They are not even allowed to do anything that a normal person can't...

4. Newspaper authors... especially from News Limited Australia... Is that the most biased load of crap ever to make it into media or what? Can you people not think of the rammifications? WHY THE FUCK ARE WE STILL HEARING ABOUT COREY DELANEY!!! NOBODY GIVES A RATS ARSE!!!

5. Wives of rich men: Seriously woman, just because your sugar Daddy thinks that there is something desirable about you and is willing to pay for you does not make you any better than anyone else. Don't talk down to me, I am smarter than you... Oh, I only work as a [my current job] hey? Well... That's because I'm fucking doing something useful with my life and somehow have to pay for it. Whore...

6. Young Arrogant male jerks/'players'. Seriously, you are an idiot, and you give blokes that aren't jerks a bad name. Oh, so you get laid every night by different chicks hey? Well, congratulations, I hereby give you a diagnosis of syphilis

Okay, not really... I'll say the lowest legal form of life... right?

Well...that just ruined my answer.

What occupation annoys you most?

The damn automatic survey...I guess they stop using human ones because we tend to cuss them out and yell at them.

evangelists

Okay, not really... I'll say the lowest legal form of life... right?

What occupation annoys you most?

People in collections....and the only other job that pond scum is worthy of is insurance adjuster. Bastages one and all.

Gotta go with those damn faith healers.

the French. add it.

I'll say the lowest form of human life is a University comptroller...

Landlords. Or slumlords I should say in my case.

American Idol contestants. *nod*

No! Failed American Idol contestants!!

Look for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfYNwUvY6Qs&hl=en

Which occupation annoys you most?

Just now, a self-appointed English teacher with bad grammar.

I'll try to answer in good faith. Celebrities. That is, people who became famous one way, then use their fame to "advocate" for something quite unrelated on which they are not experts.

They simply should not take the power the public tries to thrust apon them. Even Einstein, or Kasparov, piss me off when they take the place of real experts who know what they are talking about. I respect their work, but their celebrity aspect shits me witless.

Charity beggers.

What is the difference between a man and a parasite? A man builds, a parasite asks "Where's my share?" A man creates, a parasite says "What will the neighbors think?" A man invents, a parasite says "Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God..."

The parasite eats three things: free markets, free will, and free men. Now break that puppy's neck, would you kindly?

What is the difference between a man and a parasite? A man builds, a parasite asks "Where's my share?" A man creates, a parasite says "What will the neighbors think?" A man invents, a parasite says "Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God..."

Are you the original author of that passage ?

People who draw really awful fanart of stuff. Some of it is kind of funny, most of it is just weird as hell.

Okay, not really... I'll say the lowest legal form of life... right?

What occupation annoys you most?

Missionaries.

And professional soldiers.

Missionaries.

And professional soldiers.

You prefer amateur ones?

Missionaries.

And professional soldiers.

Wow, the original Jesuit must be really awkward to have at your HALO 3 parties...

What is the difference between a man and a parasite? A man builds, a parasite asks "Where's my share?" A man creates, a parasite says "What will the neighbors think?" A man invents, a parasite says "Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God..."

You didn't write that yourself, did you? It's from Bioshock.

First time through, I thought I'd give you the benefit of the doubt. There's a remote chance you worked on developing the game and own the copyright to the above words.

So you just used someone else's work without attribution. To make a point about parasitism.

You couldn't be more hypocritical if you tried !

You prefer amateur ones?

Well, I sort of pity guys who get drafted and have no choice...

People who draw really awful fanart of stuff.

Hey, I could do that. People pay for it ?

Wow, the original Jesuit must be really awkward to have at your HALO 3 parties...

Why would I invite him? And why would he have 3 halos?

What is the difference between a man and a parasite? A man builds, a parasite asks "Where's my share?" A man creates, a parasite says "What will the neighbors think?" A man invents, a parasite says "Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God..."

To which Nobel Hobos replied:

You didn't write that yourself, did you? It's from Bioshock.

First time through, I thought I'd give you the benefit of the doubt. There's a remote chance you worked on developing the game and own the copyright to the above words.

So you just used someone else's work without attribution. To make a point about parasitism.

You couldn't be more hypocritical if you tried !

I thought that was from Ayn Rand, but I could totally be wrong.

Hey, I could do that. People pay for it ?

You could make some decent money off of it, I've heard. The really twisted stuff tends to sell well.

Also, one of my cousins makes erotic fanart of things he likes, but he keeps it to himself.

Why would I invite him? And why would he have 3 halos?

Sometimes, Ignatius just appears...he was originally summoned into an X-Box 360 system by a sincere (if somewhat disrespectful) prayer by an undergrad at Santa Clara University, who was waaaaay high on weed, losing a game of HALO 3 to his roommate's girlfriend, so he prayed to Ignatius Loyola to come and improve his play...

Well, il soldato enjoyed it, and has since been materializing at video game parties to get some stick time in.

Well, I sort of pity guys who get drafted and have no choice...

Someone who is drafted would still be a professional soldier, he gets the training and the pay same as a volunteer.

Well, I sort of pity guys who get drafted and have no choice...

Haven't we thrashed that out already ? They always have a choice.

The slave's choice at least, and in practice many options to avoid service without being killed for avoiding.

I thought that was from Ayn Rand, but I could totally be wrong.

I thought so too. Again, I give Indri the benefit of the doubt ... second-hand plagiarism might be a little less hypocritical.

Charity beggers.

What is the difference between a man and a parasite? A man builds, a parasite asks "Where's my share?" A man creates, a parasite says "What will the neighbors think?" A man invents, a parasite says "Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God..."

The parasite eats three things: free markets, free will, and free men. Now break that puppy's neck, would you kindly?

You didn't write that yourself, did you? It's from Bioshock.

First time through, I thought I'd give you the benefit of the doubt. There's a remote chance you worked on developing the game and own the copyright to the above words.

So you just used someone else's work without attribution. To make a point about parasitism.

You couldn't be more hypocritical if you tried !

Don't you see? Indri's admitting to being a self hating (lowest form of life) parasite. At least there's honesty. :p

Haven't we thrashed that out already ? They always have a choice.

The slave's choice at least, and in practice many options to avoid service without being killed for avoiding.

True, most civilised countries, should they still practice compulsory military service, offer alternative options.
However, there are a lot of... less civilised countries, most of them with a distinct lack of belief in individual choice, or pacifism.
So while, yes, there still are certain options to avoid service in those countries, most of those options are borderline legal at best, and come with some rather drastic consequences for the individual.

It must be old age kicking in, I used to be a lot more affirmative about my moral values, but I can to some extend feel for those poor sods who just don't have the courage to stand up to a nasty regime and refuse military service. No man is an island, many will have more than just themselves to think about.

I thought so too. Again, I give Indri the benefit of the doubt ... second-hand plagiarism might be a little less hypocritical.

I've only read one of her pieces, "Anthem".

Still, the fact that Indri used the stuff uncited, while addressing parasitism is kind of funny....

Maybe she thought it was well enough known that it didn't need citation. When I use stuff like "Cry Havoc, and let slip yadda yadda", sometimes I don't cite.

True, most civilised countries, should they still practice compulsory military service, offer alternative options.
However, there are a lot of... less civilised countries, most of them with a distinct lack of belief in individual choice, or pacifism.

The perfect example is the child soldier. They probably have only the option of being killed, or their family being killed. It might be fair to expect an adult pacifist to choose not to fight and to take those consequences ... but not a child.

So while, yes, there still are certain options to avoid service in those countries, most of those options are borderline legal at best, and come with some rather drastic consequences for the individual.

It must be old age kicking in, I used to be a lot more affirmative about my moral values, but I can to some extend feel for those poor sods who just don't have the courage to stand up to a nasty regime and refuse military service. No man is an island, many will have more than just themselves to think about.

That answer made all of today worthwhile. I've been having trouble getting anything but mindless contradiction and jokes out of the other posters, so thankyou. It comes just before I have to sign off, but that's not your fault!

I have a strong urge to listen to Dylan's Masters of War and cry into the dogfood. :fluffle:

=====

Jhahannam, Rand goes "What is the difference between a man and a slave? A man chooses, a slave obeys" but Bioshock has apparently got a Rand-ian theme.

I'll try to see the humour you pointed out. 'm grumpy today.
My first post to this thread being an excellent example.

Jhahannam, Rand goes "What is the difference between a man and a slave? A man chooses, a slave obeys" but Bioshock has apparently got a Rand-ian theme.

I'll try to see the humour you pointed out. 'm grumpy today.
My first post to this thread being an excellent example.

Ah, gotcha, that sounds right. S'okay, Nobel Hobos. Just don't backhand me again next time I forget to turn off the PS3.

Well, I sort of pity guys who get drafted and have no choice...Someone who is drafted would still be a professional soldier, he gets the training and the pay same as a volunteer.

/\ points /\

Didn't want you to miss the flaw in your reasoning.

investment bankers. they do nothing but shovel other people's money around, and yet in the City they get paid vast amounts of money with even more vast bonuses each year, the latter of which aggrivates the volatility of the market. they help the rich get richer, while getting rich themselves for contributing nothing to society and having seriously questionable ethics (generally speaking)

a waste of skin and air.



sad thing is so many of my friends from school want/ed to be investment bankers and work in the City (London's financial district) because all they cared about was getting very rich, and nothing else.

/\ points /\

Didn't want you to miss the flaw in your reasoning.

Ok, wise guy. Then what is the English word for "person who decides to make soldiering his/her profession" as opposed to "person who gets told to so soldiering for any amount of time in his life, without being offered alternatives"?

In German, it's "Berufssoldat" (professional soldier), vs "Wehrpflichtiger" (draughted, doing his duty).

Bus drivers! Grrrrr.

Bus drivers! Grrrrr.

Yup I have to agree with this.

Hard to say, it really is.
I suppose pensioner doesn't count as an occupation does it?
oh i've got one, really poor teachers (as in ones who don't do their job properly) get me, that and sales people, i've been one and i've heard the lies they spin to sell a product.

/\ points /\

Didn't want you to miss the flaw in your reasoning.

Suggest a better word then.

Note: cute animated smilie does not qualify as "better word."

=========

Bus drivers! Grrrrr.

First against the wall when the revolution comes! Free teh busses!

*vandalizes bus stop*

Missionaries. And professional soldiers.

I don't know, I'd rather have either around than lawyers, personally. As for bill collectors, I've been a bill collector/skip tracer/whatever you want to call it and I've seen plenty of lying on both sides on the phone. I won't say I've never leaned on somebody a bit to get them to cough up, but I try not to lie, as a general life rule.

I nominate airport security trolls, if only for adding a new level of difficulty while providing no real security whatsoever.

Just now, a self-appointed English teacher with bad grammar.
Cranky. "What occupation annoys you the most?" is just as acceptable as using "which". You just don't like it because you are from down under land where they talk funny.

I've worked in a call center before (not as a bill collector). I assure you that the person on the other end of the phone CAN NOT. I'm sure his/her BOSS could do so, but they probably won't. The person actually calling you however has no control at all over the autodialer.

That's just it. I demand to talk to somebody who CAN and am told that NOBODY can. That's a lie.

If you want to live in my city, and you don't want to be in a neighborhood that is high crime, you have to live in a neighborhood with an HOA.

Then it's time for revolution. :)

Definitely those annoying Jehoviah Wittnesses or however you spell them that come round your house to speak from their modified Bible... Or those mormons... :rolleyes:

EDIT: Or possibly the hidden policeman. :p
EDIT 2: Oh, thought it was Most annoying.

Suggest a better word then.

Note: cute animated smilie does not qualify as "better word."

A better word for what?

I'll say the lowest form of human life is a University comptroller...

Or, maybe, the former Chancellor of the University of California, Riverside - I'll mention no names - who single handedly destroyed agricultural research at the University all while trying to get an unnecessary medical school instituted (there are already two medical schools in the area - it should really have gone to the new campus in Central California). Who had a job invented for her husband as a condition of her employment. Who called some of the finest Ag researchers in the world "second-rate." Who, with her cronies, looted the University shamelessly before departing to destroy Purdue.

Meep!

You're the only lawyer I might not hate, Neesika.:fluffle:

So cold... :(

So lonely...

So cold... :(

So lonely...

*:fluffle:´s Gravlen cuz she´s all giving and shyte and because Gravlen is nice and shyte*

Well, I sort of pity guys who get drafted and have no choice...

No choice? What do you think Canada is there for?

I can't think of one really low profession. My answer's like Neesika's, any form of petty tyrant. (Or not-so-petty tyrant. Big ones are bad, too.)

You prefer amateur ones?

Those who sign away their youth to the service of their country vs. those who seek employment with mercenary companies that rent out guns to the highest bidder?

Yes, there's a huge moral difference.

Cranky. "What occupation annoys you the most?" is just as acceptable as using "which". You just don't like it because you are from down under land where they talk funny.

"What" and "which" are interchangable in a lot of contexts. But try this:

What occupation ?
Which occupation ?

Do those really mean the same thing ?

English teachers should have better English than average. They really should, and "oh everyone talks like that here" is not good enough.

============

A better word for what?

Look at Cabra West's reply to you.
Reply to it, preferably including the words "OK, I see I was wrong."

Or, if you think you weren't wrong ... suggest a better word.

"Which" is correct. It indicates that there is a list of specific options, such as in the OP's poll. It also indicates that only one choice may be made. "What" is less formal and less specific, but not entirely incorrect. It could also leave the option of multiple choices, such as in a poll that allows the polled to select several of the listed options. I'm not an English major though, so don't take that as gospel.

"What" and "which" are interchangable in a lot of contexts. But try this:

What occupation ?
Which occupation ?

Do those really mean the same thing ?

English teachers should have better English than average. They really should, and "oh everyone talks like that here" is not good enough.

Just because I am an Okie, I looked it up. In all 6 of my grammar books it's clear that what/which is interchangeable in front of a noun. Occupation is a noun. In case that's not good enough for you.

what / which - before nouns

Before nouns what and which can be used interchangeably to ask questions about people or things:

* What / Which colour trousers would you like? Brown, green, blue, orange or maroon?
* Which / What writers have made the biggest impression on you?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/youmeus/learnit/learnitv175.shtml

It's good either way. Thank you and have a nice day.

I'm gonna stand up for lawyers here.

Defense attorneys are not the scum they're depicted as on shows like Law&Order. Their job is to keep the DA and the police honest. If Defenders weren't as picky as they are then the DA/cops would have the maneuvering room to get away with civil rights violations anytime they want.

Does that mean sometimes the guilty go free? Yep, but that's the price. Who was it that said "it is better to let 100 guilty men go free than to imprison a single innocent?"

This totally reminds me of Phoenix Wright--which inverts this. Defense Attorneys are the noble, extremely underpaid, long-suffering and uphill-fighting people genuinely believe in the innocence of their clients and put up with the ruthless and despicable Prosecutors.

Of course this turns out to not be entirely true as a Defense Attorney is mentioned who was just as bad, getting his client off on an insanity plea which ruined his life instead of believing in his innocence, all due to the fact that he wanted to win instead of get justice. And the rival Prosecutor eventually somewhat co-operates with the Defense Attorney to find the truth.

Telemarketers I can handle, I usually just tell them to politely fuck off and they don't bug me for awhile. What I don't like is door to door solicitors. Sure I'll buy the chocolate bar from the little girl no problem, but we often get people collecting data for surveys. One time I answered the door and politely told the person I was busy and went to shut the door. The person actually had the nerve to stick their foot in the door. I threw the door open so fast and pushed the guy off my step on his ass. Sure enough, a few hours later, the police came knocking on my door. I told them that I was afraid the man was a scam artist posing as a solicitor and I wasn't charged.

Wouldn't that have been trespassing?

...I'm fairly certain that it's safe to assume that I know more about economics and Adam Smith than a...what...high school junior?

Whazzamatter? You gots a problem wit us junyers?

Sometimes, Ignatius just appears...he was originally summoned into an X-Box 360 system by a sincere (if somewhat disrespectful) prayer by an undergrad at Santa Clara University, who was waaaaay high on weed, losing a game of HALO 3 to his roommate's girlfriend, so he prayed to Ignatius Loyola to come and improve his play...

Well, il soldato enjoyed it, and has since been materializing at video game parties to get some stick time in.

I have a friend who goes to Santa Clara. I'll warn him.

"Which" is correct. It indicates that there is a list of specific options, such as in the OP's poll. It also indicates that only one choice may be made. "What" is less formal and less specific, but not entirely incorrect. It could also leave the option of multiple choices, such as in a poll that allows the polled to select several of the listed options. I'm not an English major though, so don't take that as gospel.
Actually "what" is right, I went further into my research and "which" is mostly reserved for when there are only two or three options and "what" is for when there are many more options. Since I was asking about all legal occupations, there are many more than two or three possible choices. "What" is correct.

Trolls. Definitely trolls. Whether on the internet or in real life, trolls are the lowest form of life.

Are you the original author of that passage ?
You didn't write that yourself, did you? It's from Bioshock.

First time through, I thought I'd give you the benefit of the doubt. There's a remote chance you worked on developing the game and own the copyright to the above words.

So you just used someone else's work without attribution. To make a point about parasitism.

You couldn't be more hypocritical if you tried !
I happen to like that game. A lot. Excellent gameplay (even if it was too easy), a good story, and it was all very good looking. You spend the entire game killing and stealing so if you've played it I guess you're a parasite as well. And so is Ryan, the character that built the city, because he betrays his vision and principles. My sig contains a quote from the game. Just because I use someone elses words doesn't make me a parasite, it just means that I found the phrase apt. In fact, since I threw in the "would you kindly" bit you should have picked up on the reference right away. It's quite a familiar phrase for anyone who's played the game. Best game of '07.

You are worse than a wet blanket. You're a wet Shamwow.

No choice? What do you think Canada is there for?

I can't think of one really low profession. My answer's like Neesika's, any form of petty tyrant. (Or not-so-petty tyrant. Big ones are bad, too.)

How many 10-year olds from Cote d'Ivoire manage to escape and get all the way to Canada?

Lawyers!:eek:

We're not that bad, you know...

Meep!

You're the only lawyer I might not hate, Neesika.:fluffle:

*Adds Nanatsu no Tsuki to enemy list*

Only because you lawyers have made it a law to need you....

Don't know about the US, but you can represent yourself in the UK. But I wouldn't recommend it, most people who appear in person are utterly shit.

We don't go through years of training just for fun!

Don't know about the US, but you can represent yourself in the UK. But I wouldn't recommend it, most people who appear in person are utterly shit.

We don't go through years of training just for fun!

You can in the U.S. as well.

Okay, not really... I'll say the lowest legal form of life... right?

What occupation annoys you most?

Lawyers. Most are scum.

Particularly toxic tort plaintiff lawyers, family law, and any politician who is a lawyer.

Shakespeare was right.

Why aren't Terrorists on the list?

Why aren't Terrorists on the list?

Because some people on this forum are cheering for them.

the "egg doner " for my kids. "nuff said.

We're not that bad, you know...

Ok, don't cry. I'll add you the list of lawyers like Neesika and Gravlen, lawyers I want to :fluffle:.


*Adds Nanatsu no Tsuki to enemy list*

:eek:

:(

Ok, don't cry. I'll add you the list of lawyers like Neesika and Gravlen, lawyers I want to :fluffle:.



You got a list like that for software developers?

You got a list like that for software developers?

No... but I can start working on it. Want to be the first?:D

Why aren't Terrorists on the list?

It's not a legal occupation. As specified in the OP.

It might be time for you to engage your emergency backup braincell.

No... but I can start working on it. Want to be the first?:D

I would be honored ;)

It's not a legal occupation. As specified in the OP.

It might be time for you to engage your emergency backup braincell.

Actually, Einstein, it is a legal occupation in some places in the world. Pick up a newspaper sometime.

Actually, Einstein, it is a legal occupation in some places in the world. Pick up a newspaper sometime.

Name one.

Name one.

You must be joking.

You must be joking.

No.

Name one.

Gaza.

Neo Bretonnia please.

Neo Bretonnia please.

Gaza.

Yeah, Hotwife, how dare you reply in an open forum like that. Who do you think you are, a member?

;)

So what about it, ME? Gaza wasn't the example I was thinking of but it's a good one. Let's see the dance. Dance for me, n00b!

Gaza wasn't the example I was thinking of but it's a good one. Let's see the dance.

Well then shouldn't we first define what is meant by "legal occupation"?

Well then shouldn't we first define what is meant by "legal occupation"?

here goes the lawyer, lawyering the definitions...

Well then shouldn't we first define what is meant by "legal occupation"?

That would probably help, yes I agree.

Yeah, Hotwife, how dare you reply in an open forum like that. Who do you think you are, a member?

He's your emergency backup braincell.

So what about it, ME? Gaza wasn't the example I was thinking of but it's a good one. Let's see the dance. Dance for me, n00b!

So, being a terrorist is legal in Gaza, is it?

That is, killing people not in self-defence without due process of law is LEGAL in Gaza?

That would probably help, yes I agree.

I think the only rational and reasonable way to define "legal occupation" is an occupation, for which one is paid, and those actions that the person is paid for do not violate any laws of the country.

To put it another way, a legal profession is one that one can engage in without breaking any laws. As such, "drug dealer", while it may be something someone gets paid to do, is of a legal profession as dealing drugs is illegal. Same as hitman, prostitute and professional thief.

So if a legal profession is (1) something you do; (2) for which you are paid; (3) that is legal in the country you do it in.

So to address the question of whether terrorism is a legal profession in gaza, we have to answer those three questions:

1) what do terrorists do that defines them as terrorists?
2) are they paid for doing this?
3) is doing so legal in their country?

Care to take a crack at it NB?

here goes the lawyer, lawyering the definitions...

DK, didn't you at one point claim to be a lawyer? Admittedly, with all your personas it's pretty hard to keep track of what llies you told when, but I'm pretty sure.

DK, didn't you at one point claim to be a lawyer? Admittedly, with all your personas it's pretty hard to keep track of what llies you told when, but I'm pretty sure.

Dunno...most of his 'lies' have checked out so far :D

But I do remember the lawyer claim...

So cold... :(

So lonely...

You don't advertise enough :D

We're not that bad, you know...


*Adds Nanatsu no Tsuki to enemy list* You're never going to get love that way.

He's your emergency backup braincell.


Who shit in your cornflakes this morning?

I think the only rational and reasonable way to define "legal occupation" is an occupation, for which one is paid, and those actions that the person is paid for do not violate any laws of the country.

To put it another way, a legal profession is one that one can engage in without breaking any laws. As such, "drug dealer", while it may be something someone gets paid to do, is of a legal profession as dealing drugs is illegal. Same as hitman, prostitute and professional thief.

So if a legal profession is (1) something you do; (2) for which you are paid; (3) that is legal in the country you do it in.

So to address the question of whether terrorism is a legal profession in gaza, we have to answer those three questions:

1) what do terrorists do that defines them as terrorists?
2) are they paid for doing this?
3) is doing so legal in their country?

Care to take a crack at it NB?

While I agree with those three questions in general, it's impossible to give them each a consistent answer from the same point of reference.

For example, if we were talking specifically about, say, Hamas from the perspective of an Israeli, the answers would be:

1)Kill innocents
2)Yes
3)No

Whereas a Palestinian might very well answer

2)Non sequitur, they're freedom fighters
2)Yes
3)Yes

So while they might not use the term 'terrorist' they would still be referencing the same occupation we are.

In which case it's fair game on the poll (although I would concede that 'terrorist' is a label we, in the West, assign them which is, by our definition, NEVER a legal occupation)

Whereas a Palestinian might very well answer

2)Non sequitur, they're freedom fighters
2)Yes
3)Yes

So while they might not use the term 'terrorist' they would still be referencing the same occupation we are.

In which case it's fair game on the poll (although I would concede that 'terrorist' is a label we, in the West, assign them which is, by our definition, NEVER a legal occupation)

The third bolded part is the important one, in reference ot the question "is it legal in the country". The question was whether it was a legal occupation, which is to say, whether terrorism is, or is not, against the law. Therefore it's not relevant what people think. It's not relevant what a palestinian off the street will tell you. It's ont relevant about what is conducted in defiance of the law.

Ignoring the fact that you haven't put forth a universal definition of "terrorist" or demonstrated how they're compensated for those acts, the easiest question remains, are acts of terrorism against the law in gaza, yes or no?

And since you claim that terrorism is legal in gaza, by definition that must mean that acts of terrorism are legal in gaza. Not tolerated, not supported, not celebrated by people on the street, legal. Hence the legal part in legal profession. So since you're claiming it, kindly show me the law in gaza that allows so.

Because having not even glanced at the mish-mash of jordanian, egyptian, israeli, british and palestinian authorities that make up the law in the Gaza Strip, I fucking gaurentee you that murder is illegal.

You're never going to get love that way.

I don't need love. I have an army of robot men of the Clapham omnibus.

I don't need love. I have an army of robot men of the Clapham omnibus.

Oh, and barrister or solicitor?

Lawyers. Most are scum.

Particularly toxic tort plaintiff lawyers, family law, and any politician who is a lawyer.

Shakespeare was right.

See my previous post. Shakespeare put those words in the mouths of anarchistic loons who were trying to negate the rule of law. The implication was that lawyers are necessary to support the rule of law. We can have too many of them, some of them can be corrupt and incompetent, but, in the final analysis, we can't do without them.

Gods, I hate it when people take things out of context in order to support something that is the exact opposite of what the author intended.

Ignoring the fact that you haven't put forth a universal definition of "terrorist" or demonstrated how they're compensated for those acts, the easiest question remains, are acts of terrorism against the law in gaza, yes or no?

And since you claim that terrorism is legal in gaza, by definition that must mean that acts of terrorism are legal in gaza. Not tolerated, not supported, not celebrated by people on the street, legal. Hence the legal part in legal profession. So since you're claiming it, kindly show me the law in gaza that allows so.

Because having not even glanced at the mish-mash of jordanian, egyptian, israeli, british and palestinian authorities that make up the law in the Gaza Strip, I fucking gaurentee you that murder is illegal.

You're always going to run into difficulty with occupied territories, then. What if the people of the land don't recognise the occupiers legitimacy, or its right to make law?

Hypothetical example - Britain is overrun by Monster Raving Looneys, who declare that it is illegal to go to the pub. The UK, of course, does not recognise that law, but the Looneys are in charge. If I go to the pub, have I broken the law?

Oh, and barrister or solicitor?

Me? I'm a barrister-to-be, my call is in the autumn.

Me? I'm a barrister-to-be, my call is in the autumn.

I always thought it odd that you can't be both in jolly old England.

I always thought it odd that you can't be both in jolly old England.

The barriers are breaking down a lot more these days, although more in favour of the solicitors. They can now achieve rights of audience in the higher courts as 'solicitor-advocates', and, while barristers can now take some direct access work under certain circumstances, the take up has been very low.

The distinction is still strong in the civil courts, but the Criminal Bar is seriously under threat and its future is not clear.

The distinction is still strong in the civil courts, but the Criminal Bar is seriously under threat and its future is not clear.
Soon you'll be as evolved as Canada!

Soon you'll be as evolved as Canada!

Well, given the fact that I'm soon to start a new job as a criminal prosecutor, I'd rather the profession stuck around for a little bit longer!

Well, given the fact that I'm soon to start a new job as a criminal prosecutor, I'd rather the profession stuck around for a little bit longer!

Bah, we're B&S here (:D), and have no shortage of prosecutors.

Also, what kind of insane system do you work in that would allow a freshly called barrister to become a prosecutor!?

Also, what kind of insane system do you work in that would allow a freshly called barrister to become a prosecutor!?

Do you not do pupillage?

Do you not do pupillage?
We article, yes, and I see what you mean now. I had this vision of you being called to the Bar and then stepping into the prosecutor's gown.

We article, yes, and I see what you mean now. I had this vision of you being called to the Bar and then stepping into the prosecutor's gown.

It's still a relatively quick process - I will be spending most of my second six on my own in court. It will take a little longer before I'll get myself into the Crown Court, but they don't waste any time throwing you in the deep end when it comes to summary trials.

I fucking gaurentee you that murder is illegal.

Well, that is an easy guarantee, since murder, by definition is the unlawful killing of another person.
:rolleyes:

Well, that is an easy guarantee, since murder, by definition is the unlawful killing of another person.
:rolleyes:

Ah, quite right, an omission on my part. Let me rephrase.

I gaurentee that the intentional, premeditated slaying of another person is illegal.

Ah, quite right, an omission on my part. Let me rephrase.

I gaurentee that the intentional, premeditated slaying of another person is illegal.

Not if they're on the other side in a war!

Ah, quite right, an omission on my part. Let me rephrase.

I gaurentee that the intentional, premeditated slaying of another person is illegal.

Not by soldiers against other soldiers in time of war.

There are definitely contexts where intentional premeditated killing is not only legal, but sanctioned by the government.

So is execution - the death penalty, where legal, is intentional premeditated slaying of another person.

Not by soldiers against other soldiers in time of war.

Which has nothing to do with an act of terrorism, does it?

Not if they're on the other side in a war!

Which, again, has nothing to do with the discussion. The question was, is there any place in the world where terrorism is a legal occupation? Exceptions to murder statutes for soldiers, self defense, legal death penalty, and all of that, have nothing to do with terrorists, and thus totally irrelevant to the question whether terrorism is, in any country, legal.

Guys while this whole discussion is very interesting*,what I meant was, occupations that are legal in western civilization, like the US, the UK, and Australia. Sorry that I wasn't clear enough in my OP.

*it's not interesting, it's stupid.

*the reason for the stating of 'legal' is I didn't want a full thread of "terrorists, child rapists, human traffickers, etc."

I thought that it would be clear by the poll options at least that I was talking about legal everyday not killing people jobs.

Which, again, has nothing to do with the discussion. The question was, is there any place in the world where terrorism is a legal occupation? Exceptions to murder statutes for soldiers, self defense, legal death penalty, and all of that, have nothing to do with terrorists, and thus totally irrelevant to the question whether terrorism is, in any country, legal.

In Gaza. It's an occupation.

Which, again, has nothing to do with the discussion. The question was, is there any place in the world where terrorism is a legal occupation? Exceptions to murder statutes for soldiers, self defense, legal death penalty, and all of that, have nothing to do with terrorists, and thus totally irrelevant to the question whether terrorism is, in any country, legal.
Which, again, has nothing to do with the OP.
In Gaza. It's an occupation.
Guys, don't make me whine to the mods......plz hijack elsewhere, like make your own thread.

Which, again, has nothing to do with the discussion.
Yeah, but someone was going to bring it up.

The question was, is there any place in the world where terrorism is a legal occupation?
Thanks to international law, no.

Which, again, has nothing to do with the OP.

Guys, don't make me whine to the mods......plz hijack elsewhere, like make your own thread.

Alright I had a big long answer in mind for NA but since it is my fault the hijack started I'll swallow it.

So yeah... Bill Collectors! Yet another form of life that was conceived through anal sex.

Tg it to me if you want

I dont think that international law has any jurisdiction over the international community, in fact this invisible form of law enforcement is about as laughable as the UN and its enforcement on the international scene.

Alright I had a big long answer in mind for NA but since it is my fault the hijack started I'll swallow it.

So yeah... Bill Collectors! Yet another form of life that was conceived through anal sex.

Tg it to me if you want

Thanks guys! :D

The lowest form of human life?

These kind of people (http://www.twnside.org.sg/title2/finance/twninfofinance018.htm). You could probably call them bill collectors, but they transcend it to a new level by attempting to ruin whole countries.

Bankers.

Tg it to me if you want

I sent you a TG.

Thanks guys! :D

Anything for you, Smunkeeville ;)

*:fluffle:´s Gravlen cuz she´s all giving and shyte and because Gravlen is nice and shyte*
:D :fluffle:
We're not that bad, you know...
Damn, it's getting to be crowded around here...

Don't know about the US, but you can represent yourself in the UK. But I wouldn't recommend it, most people who appear in person are utterly shit.
This has a nasty tendency to be true.

We don't go through years of training just for fun!
Say what now? :confused:

Lawyers. Most are scum.
Well, that post alone should be a badge of honour :)

Ok, don't cry. I'll add you the list of lawyers like Neesika and Gravlen, lawyers I want to : fluffle:.
:fluffle: Fluffles are always good. As I always say: If you fluffle a lawyer, you will distract him/her from suing you - and you can steal his/her briefcase :)

You don't advertise enough :D
I'm stealthy.


...unlike these guys:
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/3254/pic31322ks1.jpg

See my previous post. Shakespeare put those words in the mouths of anarchistic loons who were trying to negate the rule of law. The implication was that lawyers are necessary to support the rule of law. We can have too many of them, some of them can be corrupt and incompetent, but, in the final analysis, we can't do without them.

Gods, I hate it when people take things out of context in order to support something that is the exact opposite of what the author intended.
Anti-Social Darwinism, meet Hotwife aka Deep Kimchi aka... a whole lot of others.

It's just how he rolls :cool:

What occupation annoys you most?

Is Communist an occupation?

Other than those idiots I would have to say that Politicians, as a whole, annoy me the most.

:D :fluffle:

Damn, it's getting to be crowded around here...

Never. You're on the top 5.:D


:fluffle: Fluffles are always good. As I always say: If you fluffle a lawyer, you will distract him/her from suing you - and you can steal his/her briefcase :)


I'm gonna keep fluffling you then!:fluffle::fluffle:

What occupation annoys you most?

Journalists and media people.

Mind you, only the bad journalists and media people. They annoy the crap out of me.

But if I'm not going to use qualifiers (Bad lawyers ar on my shit list too, for example) I would have to say telemarketers and agressive salesmen.

Never. You're on the top 5.:D
I was thinking about the amount of lawyers hanging around here, treating it like their gentlemen's club. But I'll take what I can get ;)

I'm gonna keep fluffling you then!:fluffle::fluffle:
Wise choice :p

:fluffle::fluffle::fluffle:

I was thinking about the amount of lawyers hanging around here, treating it like their gentlemen's club. But I'll take what I can get ;) *clears throat*

...and now in no particular order, the lowest forms of life according to Farflorin:

Stephan Harper and the Conservatives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_of_Canada)
Telemarketers
Evangelists and any of those Jehovah's Witnesses who knock on your door
Airport Security


Or basically any petty tyrant, excluding tax collectors from CRA, as I am a child of tax collectors and I'm going back to school to get the degree I need to get into that area.

I was thinking about the amount of lawyers hanging around here, treating it like their gentlemen's club. But I'll take what I can get ;)


Wise choice :p

:fluffle::fluffle::fluffle:

Meh... if you say so.;)

Bill collectors, and penny-stock pushers. When I was working for 6 brokers I got 1-4 calls each day from someone trying to do "PR" (read: pump-and-dump scam) for a stock trading in the 0.005¢/share range. Whenever I gave them a straight-up "no" they'd turn nasty as hell, as if yelling at the secretary's going to get your point across.:mad:

from the thread, id guess that bill collectors are the worst but ive never (hardly ever) dealt with one (and had no problem when i did) so they dont annoy me. my sister was getting collection calls for a guy whose last name is the same as her first name. that annoyed her very much even though she screens all her calls with an answering machine.

i dont understand the annimosity towards lawyers. they are as useful as other specialized professions like auto mechanic and physician. as such they are good and bad in the same proportion as any other profession. it makes no more sense to hate all lawyers than it does to hate all mechanics.

and i always think of something my mother in law said a few years back. she was complaining about a local defense lawyer who was quite successful in getting her clients off. "I hate her!" she said "she is always getting the bad guys let back onto the streets!" she thought a moment then added "If I were to get into legal trouble, she is the first one i would call."

you only hate lawyers until you need one.

i dislike homeowner association busybodies most of all. even though i dont live in a home covered by an association. there is one kind of person who loves to take the small power that the HOA gives them and use it to make his neighbors miserable. they get stupid provisions passed that seem OK at the time--like allowable door colors- but only serve to give them leverage over the poor schmuck who moves in and doesnt know that he has chosen the wrong shade of blue for his door. any kind of association that allows this kind of person to have power over others is bad in my book.

i dont understand the annimosity towards lawyers. they are as useful as other specialized professions like auto mechanic and physician. as such they are good and bad in the same proportion as any other profession. it makes no more sense to hate all lawyers than it does to hate all mechanics.

Some people do :(

*clears throat*
Yes madam, you are indeed classified as a gentleman ;)

Meh... if you say so.;)
Why shouldn't I? All the other words are currently leased out, so I stand by my claim!

No, I'm not under any obligation to make sense here...
:fluffle:

Why shouldn't I? All the other words are currently leased out, so I stand by my claim!

Amen!!!!:D

No, I'm not under any obligation to make sense here... :fluffle:

I like a strong man. Stand by it!!:fluffle:

Yes madam, you are indeed classified as a gentleman ;)
Unless I get an honorary penis to go with the title, I must object.

Some people do :(

surely most people would agree that that is nutz.

Unless I get an honorary penis to go with the title, I must object.

you just want a penis...

Ok, don't cry. I'll add you the list of lawyers like Neesika and Gravlen, lawyers I want to :fluffle:.(

ok, you can come off the enemy list. :p

ok, you can come off the enemy list. :p

You're a lawyer?
*gasps*
:eek:
I thought that would be the last profession you should be in, i thought you were a teacher or some brainbox student from some highandmighty university?

LAwyers are the lowest form of life. PERIOD.

Right before journalists:P

And priests...lets not forget about priest....and...I dont want to scare the hell out of you guys...but think about it for a second.

Some priests are lawyers too...

THINK ABOUT IT:eek:

NYPD Traffic Division...bottom feeders!

Unless I get an honorary penis to go with the title, I must object.

If that's what it takes to get in, I hope the club doesn't ask for credentials at the door.

If that's what it takes to get in, I hope the club doesn't ask for credentials at the door.

it would be more interesting if instead of those funny little white wigs they have in some countries, a lawyer was required to bring a strap-on to the courtroom.

The lowest form of life would probably be a bacterium. Can't get much closer to the ground than that.

it would be more interesting if instead of those funny little white wigs they have in some countries, a lawyer was required to bring a strap-on to the courtroom.

But in family law, every participant could be required to be equipped with breasts. Or at least, honorary breasts.

you just want a penis...

I want to make a man my bitch you mean.

I'm actually kinda thinking about becoming a journalist IRL.

I'm actually kinda thinking about becoming a journalist IRL.

Get a blog.



That's a joke : D I'd like to be investigative, perhaps a reporter's assistant. For the same reason, police detective work would be interesting. Isn't it odd that such vital occupations are unpopular ?

You're a lawyer?
*gasps*
:eek:
I thought that would be the last profession you should be in, i thought you were a teacher or some brainbox student from some highandmighty university?

I'm not sure whether to take that as a compliment or an insult. :p

ok, you can come off the enemy list. :p

Cool. Now if only I could manage to get off that Interpol List...

:p

you just want a penis...

I would like to own a penis, at least for one day if only to know how it feels to pee standing...:p

surely most people would agree that that is nutz.

I would hope so... But that wasn't my experience back when I was a mechanic. You'd be amazed at how comfortable people were telling me to my face that that I was lying to them.

(Note: I prided myself on NEVER EVER lying to a customer or performing unnecessary work on a car. And I never stayed working at a shop where I saw it happening.)

I would like to own a penis, at least for one day if only to know how it feels to pee standing...:p

You know, I once saw an item in a novelty catalog...

Unless I get an honorary penis to go with the title, I must object.

I'm sure Sumamba or... *squints at sig* Gift-of-God can help you out for now, but when you graduate they hand you a penis and a set of (customizable) balls. It's tradition! :)

R.E. teacher. The reason being the only jobs you can get with R.E. are priest, nun, etc. and, most obviously, an R.E. teacher, so these people have pointless jobs which corrupt the minds of schoolchildren to drag them down and make them R.E. teachers:mp5::)

You know, I once saw an item in a novelty catalog...

Really? TG me all the details.:D

I would like to own a penis, at least for one day if only to know how it feels to pee standing...:p

There's nothing quite like writing your name in yellow snow.

My name?

Adolph Blaine Charles David Earl Frederick Gerald Hubert Irvin John Kenneth Lloyd Martin Nero Oliver Paul Quincy Randolph Sherman Thomas Uncas Victor William Xerxes Yancy Wolfeschlegelsteinhausenbergerdorff, Junior

There's nothing quite like writing your name in yellow snow.

My name?

Adolph Blaine Charles David Earl Frederick Gerald Hubert Irvin John Kenneth Lloyd Martin Nero Oliver Paul Quincy Randolph Sherman Thomas Uncas Victor William Xerxes Yancy Wolfeschlegelsteinhausenbergerdorff, Junior

You tease me with the power of your penis pwnage.:p

You tease me with the power of your penis pwnage.:p

I have to drink a lot of water before I can write my name in the snow.

Also, I have to keep backing up...

I have to drink a lot of water before I can write my name in the snow.

Also, I have to keep backing up...

Ah, motion and penis pwnage. Let me take off my hat to you, sir.;)

You tease me with the power of your penis pwnage.:p

Damn penis envy?

Ah, motion and penis pwnage. Let me take off my hat to you, sir.;)

It's not your hat that should be removed.

Really? TG me all the details.:D

If I could recall where exactly I saw it, I would!

It was a disposable cardboard contraption that you'd fit between your legs when it was time to pee and you could do it standing up.

If I could recall where exactly I saw it, I would!

It was a disposable cardboard contraption that you'd fit between your legs when it was time to pee and you could do it standing up.

Oooh... that sounds funny. I wish I could see it.

It's not your hat that should be removed.

And what, pray tell, should I remove?

Damn penis envy?

Aye aye, sir, for I wish I had a penis for one day so that I can experience the liberty of peeing while standing.:D Care to lend me thine?

And what, pray tell, should I remove?

Everything else, but keep the hat.

I'm sure Sumamba or... *squints at sig* Gift-of-God can help you out for now,
True, true, but a girl can dream of a penis of her own you know...


but when you graduate they hand you a penis and a set of (customizable) balls. It's tradition! :)
Meh, I already have the biggest balls around :D

Everything else, but keep the hat.

:eek:

*runs to her gopher hole, but whispers*

Lets move this to the Freaky thread, shall we?

:D

two words: BNP campaigner.:sniper:

Satan has finally met his match!

Aye aye, sir, for I wish I had a penis for one day so that I can experience the liberty of peeing while standing.:D Care to lend me thine?
I currently don't have jurisdiction over it at the moment... ;)

True, true, but a girl can dream of a penis of her own you know...

Meh, I already have the biggest balls around :D
As I said: Already a "gentleman" *nods*

Journalists and worms.

Journalists and worms.

what is so bad about journalists that makes them worse than .... those who run driveway sealant scams?

i would say no one you come in contact with directly. (unless you're enguaged in rather unusual activities that a very relatively small number of people are).

nor would i say any self awaire entity as an individual. but in the context and intent the question appears to have been asked, i would have to say those lobbying contractors engauged by corporate faschism to further its intrests both publicly and politically, at the expense of real people, places and things.

=^^=
.../\...

I dunno at the moment, but pretty it's probably going to be bill collectors. One of my flatmates left the country just before he signed a mobile phone contract. They've passed it to a collection agency and I've been returning their letters unopenned, but they coming. On the second last one I wrote that it was the last one I was going to return. The last one I opened before I threw it in the bin. Said something about a court order and that they want him to pay the costs of getting the order as well. I do wonder if they actually have a court order or are just saying they do.

we have in this world today a dominant culture of self perpetuating corporate faschism, and singling out one or more job catigories to scapegoat isn't going to solve the problem. nothing short of letting go of our emotional attatchment to those familiar assumptions that make its perpatuation possible is going to solve this problem. and it is one that if we don't solve, because it is at the root of virtually all the others, we're looking at our own undoing both as a species and as a planet.

so in one sense, that lowest form of life is everyone of ourselves, everytime we lie to ourselves. the real good news though, is that we don't have to keep doing so.

i mean, whatever job catigory you want to scapegoat, only EXISTS because of how we live and how we look at things creating a market for it.

so that's what its really up to. scapegoating anything is really just another way of mentally masterbating.

=^^=
.../\...

what is so bad about journalists that makes them worse than .... those who run driveway sealant scams?

I mainly had reporters in mind. I don't know, there's something I hate about the whole television industry, be that fakeness, narcissism, superficial beautification, and somehow reporters, in my mind, are the prime example of this.

Sorry, if I offended the worms.

I mainly had reporters in mind. I don't know, there's something I hate about the whole television industry, be that fakeness, narcissism, superficial beautification, and somehow reporters, in my mind, are the prime example of this.

Sorry, if I offended the worms.

i still dont get it. what is it that you find so offensive about people who find and report the news? what makes them the worst? are they really worse than the auto mechanics who fix things that werent broken?