NationStates Jolt Archive


Weirdo up-to-date Nazi propaganda thingy

Aurono
27-05-2008, 20:43
I found this on some site (I don't remember where):

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x85/MoonShadow_09/720181.jpg

Now it definitely looks like genuine Nazi propaganda from World War II - but just take a look at what the soldier is zapping there. It is - yes, a Chinese-style dragon, with a red star on his forehead. Now, that's a weird thing, for AFAIK, the Chinese were amidst a fierce war with Japan - an ally of Germany - over the entire course of World War II, and the People's Republic did not come into being before 1949. So, either I slipped into an alternate universe while being online, or somebody knows how to draw pretty realistic-looking yet up-to-date Nazi-style propaganda, or...?

Now this is where this forum comes into play... with some chance, some wannabe historian will look up this thread and will tell me what this thing is about. Maybe you have seen it in your school book, some documentary, anything... But I would just like an explanation for why the Nazis would have made propaganda posters against what appears to be Communist China.

For anyone who cares, the text says "Germany's victory - Europe's freedom".
Vetalia
27-05-2008, 20:46
I think it's supposed represent the Soviet Union, or maybe Communism in general.
Hydesland
27-05-2008, 20:47
Well you know the Nazis, anyone not with them were either Jewish or Bolshevik, the Chinese can't be Jewish, so they had to be Bolsheviks instead.
Glorious Freedonia
27-05-2008, 20:49
I found this on some site (I don't remember where):

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x85/MoonShadow_09/720181.jpg

Now it definitely looks like genuine Nazi propaganda from World War II - but just take a look at what the soldier is zapping there. It is - yes, a Chinese-style dragon, with a red star on his forehead. Now, that's a weird thing, for AFAIK, the Chinese were amidst a fierce war with Japan - an ally of Germany - over the entire course of World War II, and the People's Republic did not come into being before 1949. So, either I slipped into an alternate universe while being online, or somebody knows how to draw pretty realistic-looking yet up-to-date Nazi-style propaganda, or...?

Now this is where this forum comes into play... with some chance, some wannabe historian will look up this thread and will tell me what this thing is about. Maybe you have seen it in your school book, some documentary, anything... But I would just like an explanation for why the Nazis would have made propaganda posters against what appears to be Communist China.

For anyone who cares, the text says "Germany's victory - Europe's freedom".

This clearly shows a German soldier battling the forces of communism. I bet that the image is supposed to evoke a feeling of victory over the Russians in general and communism in particular. Of course, it is interesting that the moster in the picture is a dragon instead of a bear.

I doubt that this is a reference to the china communists. However, the china comms were an allied force against Japan.

The Chinese civil war predated the Jap invasion. There was an icy truce declared between the nationalists and the commies while both sides made war against the invaders. Unfortunately, after the end of WWII the war continued and things went poorly for the nationalists who eventually retreated to Taiwan and remain there today.
Anadyr Islands
27-05-2008, 20:49
I found this on some site (I don't remember where):

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x85/MoonShadow_09/720181.jpg

Now it definitely looks like genuine Nazi propaganda from World War II - but just take a look at what the soldier is zapping there. It is - yes, a Chinese-style dragon, with a red star on his forehead. Now, that's a weird thing, for AFAIK, the Chinese were amidst a fierce war with Japan - an ally of Germany - over the entire course of World War II, and the People's Republic did not come into being before 1949. So, either I slipped into an alternate universe while being online, or somebody knows how to draw pretty realistic-looking yet up-to-date Nazi-style propaganda, or...?

Now this is where this forum comes into play... with some chance, some wannabe historian will look up this thread and will tell me what this thing is about. Maybe you have seen it in your school book, some documentary, anything... But I would just like an explanation for why the Nazis would have made propaganda posters against what appears to be Communist China.

For anyone who cares, the text says "Germany's victory - Europe's freedom".

Well, Germany had some mixed relations with pre-Communist China during the war, so it could be a sort of side swipe at them.

Possibly, it also represents a more general theme of European dominance over the Non-European elements in general, and especially since it alludes to St. George slaying of the Dragon, which is the classic Good Vs. Evil dichotomy. To some extent, the Soviets were also demonised as non-European/ Oriental, so it could an indirect suggest at that, especially since it's red.

Yay, art history FTW!

Seriously though, otherwise, I'm not too sure about it either....
Reichstatt
27-05-2008, 20:59
Well, Germany had some mixed relations with pre-Communist China during the war, so it could be a sort of side swipe at them.

Possibly, it also represents a more general theme of European dominance over the Non-European elements in general, and especially since it alludes to St. George slaying of the Dragon, which is the classic Good Vs. Evil dichotomy. To some extent, the Soviets were also demonised as non-European/ Oriental, so it could an indirect suggest at that, especially since it's red.

Yay, art history FTW!

Seriously though, otherwise, I'm not too sure about it either....

I agree with Anadyr Islands' large middle paragraph. I remember seeing this propoganda in school books and in other history books from the library. So its definitely dating from WWII. For the record, I do not recall ever seeing any Nazi propoganda depicting Russians/Soviets as a bear--always as some other beast. I'm one of your "wanna-be historians!" ;)
Vetalia
27-05-2008, 21:02
Possibly, it also represents a more general theme of European dominance over the Non-European elements in general, and especially since it alludes to St. George slaying of the Dragon, which is the classic Good Vs. Evil dichotomy. To some extent, the Soviets were also demonised as non-European/ Oriental, so it could an indirect suggest at that, especially since it's red.

I figured it was supposed to be a representation of Satan.
Reichstatt
27-05-2008, 21:02
One more thing: I have seen propoganda depicting Russians/Soviets as a Bear in American WWII propoganda. Cold War era American propoganda also depicts Russians/Soviets as a Bear.
Anadyr Islands
27-05-2008, 21:10
I figured it was supposed to be a representation of Satan.

Well, Satan IS the incarnation of pure evil, so...
West Corinthia
27-05-2008, 21:20
I think it's a reference to communist Chinese rebels who were already established in China during WWII.
Arkach
27-05-2008, 21:30
This is anti-soviet German Propaganda Poster issued circa mid 1943. Red Beast is symbol of Communism. Commies win Civil War in China in 1949, 4 years after II WW end.
Andaras
27-05-2008, 22:34
I found this on some site (I don't remember where):

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x85/MoonShadow_09/720181.jpg

Now it definitely looks like genuine Nazi propaganda from World War II - but just take a look at what the soldier is zapping there. It is - yes, a Chinese-style dragon, with a red star on his forehead. Now, that's a weird thing, for AFAIK, the Chinese were amidst a fierce war with Japan - an ally of Germany - over the entire course of World War II, and the People's Republic did not come into being before 1949. So, either I slipped into an alternate universe while being online, or somebody knows how to draw pretty realistic-looking yet up-to-date Nazi-style propaganda, or...?

Now this is where this forum comes into play... with some chance, some wannabe historian will look up this thread and will tell me what this thing is about. Maybe you have seen it in your school book, some documentary, anything... But I would just like an explanation for why the Nazis would have made propaganda posters against what appears to be Communist China.

For anyone who cares, the text says "Germany's victory - Europe's freedom".

The Nazi's supported the Nationalists during the Civil War, while the Soviets supported the Communists, and yes that Civil War was going on during the 30's before WWII. Also I actually believe Chiang Kai-shek met Himmler at one stage.
Forsakia
28-05-2008, 00:30
Clearly they feared the mighty Welsh Communist Party.
New Manvir
28-05-2008, 02:09
Looks like he's holding a microphone...Nazi Idol anyone?
Conserative Morality
28-05-2008, 02:11
Looks like he's holding a microphone...Nazi Idol anyone?
I advise you not to throw that 'mic'. The crowd really will go wild, and explode with excitment. Literally :D
Xocotl Constellation
28-05-2008, 02:31
Can anyone make out that circle mark on the Dragon's neck/shoulder? It could be a clue to what the dragon is suppose to represent.
Andaluciae
28-05-2008, 03:54
The Nazi's supported the Nationalists during the Civil War, while the Soviets supported the Communists, and yes that Civil War was going on during the 30's before WWII. Also I actually believe Chiang Kai-shek met Himmler at one stage.

And Stalin met with Ribbentrop, and formalized a treaty to occupy, and divide up Poland without repercussions from the other party. Your point?
Blouman Empire
28-05-2008, 04:11
Well you know the Nazis, anyone not with them were either Jewish or Bolshevik, the Chinese can't be Jewish, so they had to be Bolsheviks instead.

I hope you mean this as a joke.

Regardless, it does look like some sort of hoax, and yes while it does strike some resembalance to posters from the time frame it wouldn't be that hard to copy that now.
Marrakech II
28-05-2008, 05:35
Can anyone make out that circle mark on the Dragon's neck/shoulder? It could be a clue to what the dragon is suppose to represent.

It appears to be a depiction of Mao.







seriously I don't what the hell it is.
Dyakovo
28-05-2008, 05:41
Looks like he's holding a microphone...Nazi Idol anyone?

No, it looks exactly like he's holding a "potato masher" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_24_grenade)
Brutland and Norden
28-05-2008, 07:36
No, it looks exactly like he's holding a potato masher
Then the caption should read:
"Germany's victory - Europe's freedom - Free Mashed Potatoes for Everyone!"
Dyakovo
28-05-2008, 07:39
Then the caption should read:
"Germany's victory - Europe's freedom - Free Mashed Potatoes for Everyone!"

If you had followed the link which you edited out when you quoted me, you'd have seen that it is/was a slang term for a style of grenade.
Brutland and Norden
28-05-2008, 07:42
If you had followed the link which you edited out when you quoted me, you'd have seen that it is/was a slang term for a style of grenade.
Yeah I know.
Laerod
28-05-2008, 09:54
Now it definitely looks like genuine Nazi propaganda from World War II -Might have something to do with it being genuine Nazi propaganda from World War II
<snip sophistry>The more logical conclusion is that the Nazis considered communism a monster and depicted it as such, not caring for the potential symbolic ramifications it would have in the future.
Dyakovo
28-05-2008, 09:57
Might have something to do with it being genuine Nazi propaganda from World War II
The more logical conclusion is that the Nazis considered communism a monster and depicted it as such, not caring for the potential symbolic ramifications it would have in the future.

What's this? Are you trying to tell me that the Nazi's weren't Pre-cog's?
Laerod
28-05-2008, 10:07
What's this? Are you trying to tell me that the Nazi's weren't Pre-cog's?
They thought they'd win WWII. That disproves precognition right there :p
G3N13
28-05-2008, 11:05
They thought they'd win WWII. That disproves precognition right there :p
Wouldn't it be more scary if it DIDN'T...
Hibernobrittania
28-05-2008, 11:11
The Dragon is just used to show a well understood beast/menace, the red star is for communism, and it's most obviously the Soviet Union. The dragon is not actually very chinese in style either, and there is virtually no chance the Nazis would produce anti chinese propaganda

Also the writing at the bottom says
"Deutschland sieg
Europa's Freiheit"
which means German victory, Europe's Freedom (from the communist menace that is the USSR). The Soviets were oftern represented in such a way.
Laerod
28-05-2008, 17:15
Wouldn't it be more scary if it DIDN'T...Along with more stupid, yes.
The Dragon is just used to show a well understood beast/menace, the red star is for communism, and it's most obviously the Soviet Union. The dragon is not actually very chinese in style either, and there is virtually no chance the Nazis would produce anti chinese propaganda

Also the writing at the bottom says
"Deutschland sieg
Europa's Freiheit"
which means German victory, Europe's Freedom (from the communist menace that is the USSR). The Soviets were oftern represented in such a way."Deutschlands Sieg - Europas Freiheit" actually. Means "Germany's Victory - Europe's Freedom".
Hurdegaryp
28-05-2008, 17:27
The more logical conclusion is that the Nazis considered communism a monster and depicted it as such, not caring for the potential symbolic ramifications it would have in the future.
It's rather comical to see the enthusiasm with which people try to reinterpret a rather simplistic propaganda poster from the Third Reich.
Aurono
28-05-2008, 18:49
To compare the poster I posted to some modern "propaganda", I dug out this modern "propaganda", which definitely does deal with China, and gives some impression of the apparent symbolism for depicting China in today's media in Germany:

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x85/MoonShadow_09/wiwo_deutsch_THUMB.jpg
The text says:
[There is] no fear of the Dragon

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x85/MoonShadow_09/psvhb.jpg
The text says:
End of Honeymoon
Greater Trostia
28-05-2008, 18:55
and especially since it alludes to St. George slaying of the Dragon, which is the classic Good Vs. Evil dichotomy.

Bingo.
Freebourne
28-05-2008, 21:35
Then the caption should read:
"Germany's victory - Europe's freedom - Free Mashed Potatoes for Everyone!"
:DMHehehehehehehehe.hee....he...he.erm...carry on.
Rubiconic Crossings
28-05-2008, 22:07
If it was meant to represent Russia it would be a bear.

/veteran of the cold war
New Manvir
30-05-2008, 02:13
No, it looks exactly like he's holding a "potato masher" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_24_grenade)

yeah, I know it's one of them fancy-schmancy WWII German grenades, but it looks like a microphone. And I still stand by my Nazi Idol idea.
Geniasis
30-05-2008, 02:23
If you had followed the link which you edited out when you quoted me, you'd have seen that it is/was a slang term for a style of grenade.

I learned this from Call of Duty.
Yootopia
30-05-2008, 03:20
Looks like it was drawn by an Italian or central European type. Not the traditional German style of drawing of the time. But aye, it appears to be about communism.
Laerod
30-05-2008, 10:14
To compare the poster I posted to some modern "propaganda", I dug out this modern "propaganda", which definitely does deal with China, and gives some impression of the apparent symbolism for depicting China in today's media in Germany: So why didn't you interpret the eagle as the United States. Sure, it's a German magazine, and the eagle looks like the one from the German coat of arms, but that can easily be ignored.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x85/MoonShadow_09/wiwo_deutsch_THUMB.jpg
The text says:
[There is] no fear of the Dragon
"[Have] no fear of the Dragon", actually.
Dododecapod
30-05-2008, 10:55
The use of the Dragon motif for the Soviet Union is actually a bit of rather clever symbolism.

The Bear was the traditional symbol of Russia, but the Nazis wouldn't have wanted to use it, as they wanted to show the USSR as an Asian power. Tsarist Russia had been a European power, which didn't sit with either their racial theories or their other propaganda (which invariably portrayed slavs and other East European ethnicities as rather asiatic in appearance).

This also played into the "Yellow Peril" propaganda that had appeared between the wars against asian immigration in Europe and elsewhere.

Neither the Nazis nor the Soviets were slouches when it came to symbolism or propaganda.
Vespertilia
30-05-2008, 12:14
By the way, it's not even the first time USSR/Soviet Russia was depicted as dragon, and in Nazi propaganda the war on Eastern front was a war against communism.
Laerod
30-05-2008, 15:56
By the way, it's not even the first time USSR/Soviet Russia was depicted as dragon, and in Nazi propaganda the war on Eastern front was a war against communism.And humanity.
Vespertilia
30-05-2008, 23:57
And humanity.

Nope. D'ya think they advertised themselves by "Join us - biggest butchers since Genghis Khan!"?

For example, Spanish Brigada Azul (or however was their volunteer unit called, I don't speak Spanish) was described as remarkably friendlier towards local population than the Germans, because they didn't go to war for "oceans of blood" or "mountains of skulls", but because they believed they fought communism instead.