NationStates Jolt Archive

So, I'm graduating in a few days from now, almost a week or so (yes, yes, congrats, thank you, thank you :D). Anyways, I was thinking about how seriously pointless some of the things I've learned in school are to me, to some extent. I mean, I personally don't plan on becoming an engineer, physicist or anything even remotely requires advanced mathematical knowledge or the scientific method (I'm currently thinking about majoring in Journalism. No, not because I like writing in the school newspaper, because I want to actually go to places and report the raw, real stuff out there. That, or work for the National Geographic :)) , and while I'm not disparaging the value of such subjects, I'm more than glad to be done with them, for the most part.

Anyways, in your opinions, most esteemed forumlings, what do you consider the most important subject(s) currently being taught? Or better yet, not taught in most schools (By which I mean high schools)? Could you prioritize them in order of importance?

Im a big fan of History, because it helps give me a sense of who I am and it also helps us to not repeat the mistakes of the past.

Im a big fan of History, because it helps give me a sense of who I am and it also helps us to not repeat the mistakes of the past.

I agree. For me, it's up there, sharing the top spot between Philosophy.

Math. It's built on logic. I have noticed that most of the people I know who absolutely suck at thinking about things critically have a piss poor education in math.

Learning Algebra isn't about getting a job finding x one day, life is about finding x. If you don't know how to break a problem down and figure out what information is useful and how to use it, your life will suck and you won't ever fucking figure out why.

Languages, sciences and history. Everything else can be deduced from those.

Math. It's built on logic. I have noticed that most of the people I know who absolutely suck at thinking about things critically have a piss poor education in math.

Learning Algebra isn't about getting a job finding x one day, life is about finding x. If you don't know how to break a problem down and figure out what information is useful and how to use it, your life will suck and you won't ever fucking figure out why.

Um... thank you for your kind words.

It's not that I was bad, I'm all-right at it. It's just that I don't find any real application to advanced Calculus and Trigonometry in real life. Thus, I don't think it's that important in advanced levels unless your vocation requires it. Basic stuff is obvious required... I'm not sure one can function in today's society without at least being able to calculate interest rates, if only as a formula.

And don't get started on how math is paradoxical because it's a logic based on it's own assumptions... :p Brought that sort of thinking up in post-modern philosophy. Dear God, it's mind-boggling how much the human mind can believe or doubt in abstract things.

Um... thank you for your kind words.
They weren't meant to be directed at you, just my general feeling.

It's not that I was bad, I'm all-right at it. It's just that I don't find any real application to advanced Calculus and Trigonometry in real life.
Problem solving, critical thinking, common sense.

Thus, I don't think it's that important in advanced levels unless your vocation requires it. Basic stuff is obvious required... I'm not sure one can function in today's society without at least being able to calculate interest rates, if only as a formula.

People value different things, I value science and math over more subjective subjects.
And don't get started on how math is paradoxical because it's a logic based on it's own assumptions... :p
All logic is based on assumptions, you can either prove them or not.

Brought that sort of thinking up in post-modern philosophy. Dear God, it's mind-boggling how much the human mind can believe or doubt in abstract things.
Post-modernism irks me. :p

Post-modernism irks me. :p

But that's what makes it so fun! You get to mess with people! I really think the post-modern philosophers are just bastards too much time on their hands who are out to make people doubt everything and anything, just for the hell of it.

But, I think I was fairly logical by the time I was 16 (Yes, yes, I was, don't let the stereotypes tell you otherwise;) ), and no amount of abstract numbers has made a difference in the last two years or so. Anyways, I suppose, as you said, different people...

I was torn between History and Foreign Languages. I chose FL in the end since they actually help you interact with the outside world.

Though history is a very close second since it makes you look very smart to know random tidbits of information, and debate with people. That and I get a good grade in it...unlike Spanish.

Well, my degree is Music, so....

Well, my degree is Music, so....

That means that whatever is valued by the sane world is of no use to you.

(I couldn't be happier to be done with my music courses. They were giving me serious burnout.)

So far my most useful courses have been.. er... well... I guess any writing I did. Though I already had a natural flair for it. But I will say, anything I took prior to uni was helpful. While I bitched my way through precalculus, I wasn't bad at it and math does help critical thinking. (And it helps with Pythagorean tuning. gah.) Science helped with the logic and critical thinking, too. (Not so much for practical application- I'm now kicking myself for never taking physics.)

Actually, I can see a good, useful reason for all the courses I took in high school. Not so much in college, though. (My computer class was ridiculous.)

History, it stops you from looking like this guy: http://youtube.com/watch?v=sMMklhX74_w

That means that whatever is valued by the sane world is of no use to you.

(I couldn't be happier to be done with my music courses. They were giving me serious burnout.)

As it happens, I have no interest in going into performing. Critical thinking, analysis, being creative, reporting in decent prose are all things in my course that will be useful outside.

And even if I was, there are still things from outside of music that would have a huge impact for a player: science for empirically measuring aspects of music performance and helping players tailor their rehearsing and performance to their brain as well as the audience's; history for study of historical performance.

internet class

internet class

You got here didn't you? I say that is worth enough. :)

Also, lol to the person who didn't know what Chamberlain did.

History, and not due to that sententious shite pretending that what is in effect tendentious self-preservation is in fact more profound and philanthropic. Simply because history as an academic discipline lies at the confluence of two of my great interests; arguing a stance, however indefensible or ridiculous, and the past. Neither the past in the admirable if amateurish fashion of Dan Cruickshank or Adam Hart-Davis, in which they gush at anything more than 50 years old, nor a whiggish concept of a linear progression to modernity. Just a palpable, if somewhat amorphous, notion of the past as an area to study for its own end.

I don't think it matters particularly what subject as long as you learn and keep on learning - start with what you find easy, then just keep on going.

Mother tongue studies. So that no one ever writes a post in the style of that TBC one ever again.

History, and not due to that sententious shite pretending that what is in effect tendentious self-preservation is in fact more profound and philanthropic. Simply because history as an academic discipline lies at the confluence of two of my great interests; arguing a stance, however indefensible or ridiculous, and the past. Neither the past in the admirable if amateurish fashion of Dan Cruickshank or Adam Hart-Davis, in which they gush at anything more than 50 years old, nor a whiggish concept of a linear progression to modernity. Just a palpable, if somewhat amorphous, notion of the past as an area to study for its own end.

*pulls out dictionary*

Oh! I get it.

As it happens, I have no interest in going into performing. Critical thinking, analysis, being creative, reporting in decent prose are all things in my course that will be useful outside.

And even if I was, there are still things from outside of music that would have a huge impact for a player: science for empirically measuring aspects of music performance and helping players tailor their rehearsing and performance to their brain as well as the audience's; history for study of historical performance.

Even if you don't want to go in to performing, music is a different monster from most disciplines. Even the way you approach history can be extremely different. Going from my major coursework to my minor coursework has been quite an experience, because while both are similar on the surface it takes a much different perspective to get through music courses than recording courses.

So much of the maths I learned at GCSE level (higher, thank you) I've not looked at since, let alone used. It struck me as entirely unnecessary at the time, and still does now. A lot of people know it, yet they still insist that kids have to do it.

Personally, I'd tend to go with history of all types. There's one thing that irritates me, stupidly, is when people don't know things from history that I kind of thing should be known by everyone. Like people in the UK who haven't heard of the English Civil War (or War of Three Nations I think it's now called). Really bad of me to be annoyed, though.

EDIT: Poop, I accidentally voted for the wrong choice. I meant to go with history, but accidentally hit "Other".

So much of the maths I learned at GCSE level (higher, thank you) I've not looked at since, let alone used. It struck me as entirely unnecessary at the time, and still does now. A lot of people know it, yet they still insist that kids have to do it.

Personally, I'd tend to go with history of all types. There's one thing that irritates me, stupidly, is when people don't know things from history that I kind of thing should be known by everyone. Like people in the UK who haven't heard of the English Civil War (or War of Three Nations I think it's now called). Really bad of me to be annoyed, though.

EDIT: Poop, I accidentally voted for the wrong choice. I meant to go with history, but accidentally hit "Other".

The civil war is massively neglected actually. However, the biggest single failing, beyond the nauseatingly prosaic character of A-levels and GCSE's, is the fashion in which Hitler, Stalin et al. are painted as two dimensional pantomime villains. But then, it is to be expected of education boards which, once chaired by Oxbridge professors, are now chaired by comprehensive school teachers.

Click Stand;13720215']*pulls out dictionary*

Oh! I get it.

Why should I feel guilty that you have an abominably poor vocabulary?

The civil war is massively neglected actually. However, the biggest single failing, beyond the nauseatingly prosaic character of A-levels and GCSE's, is the fashion in which Hitler, Stalin et al. are painted as two dimensional pantomime villains. But then, it is to be expected of education boards which, once chaired by Oxbridge professors, are now chaired by comprehensive school teachers.
I'd agree with that, although not the comprehensive school teachers thing. You can get some good teachers there. Claiming that "I went to a comprehensive school and I'm all right" may mean I'm filling a stereotype, but, bugger it, I think it's true.

They were murdering bastards, but they were also human, and attempting to label them as just monsters is missing the point. There's too much attention laid on that sort of thing, as well as the Tudors and the Victorians. Admittedly, there probably isn't enough time in a school day to cover all the things I'd want them to teach in history classes, but then I would add more and more to the list as I reminded myself about different periods and people.

I'd agree with that, although not the comprehensive school teachers thing. You can get some good teachers there. Claiming that "I went to a comprehensive school and I'm all right" may mean I'm filling a stereotype, but, bugger it, I think it's true.

They were murdering bastards, but they were also human, and attempting to label them as just monsters is missing the point. There's too much attention laid on that sort of thing, as well as the Tudors and the Victorians. Admittedly, there probably isn't enough time in a school day to cover all the things I'd want them to teach in history classes, but then I would add more and more to the list as I reminded myself about different periods and people.

Meh. "I've been to a comp and I'm ok", "I've been to a grammar school..." and "I've been privately educated...." are all syllogisms trotted out by those with a positive experiance of one. Hence my support to selective education I suspect.

However, I did not mean to impugn the capacity of comprehensive teachers; only that, given the pupils they teach, they are unlikely to be as academic, or erudite, as an eminent Oxbridge academic. Perhaps attempting to restore Humanism to its previous central place in education is reactionary, however, I see no evidence that the more prosaic education system championed by Labour has any merit.

Apropos history, I'd certainly introduce C18th history. One cannot understand "Imperialism", the Victorians or parliamentary democracy without a rudimentary grasp of the eighteenth century.

it's not 'mother tongue' ; sounds oedipal and creepy. It is language arts.

Oh, and high school would do well to teach more about business and home economics. Not the cooking kind - the shopping for a car, home, managing income, and saving for retirement kind.

the most important things you learn at school, are how the world works and how to behave once you leave school, that should be the focus of primary education.

Apropos history, I'd certainly introduce C18th history. One cannot understand "Imperialism", the Victorians or parliamentary democracy without a rudimentary grasp of the eighteenth century.
Spot on, really.

I'd like to add the Byzantine Empire, at least a bit of the earlier stuff, to steer away from Western Europe being the focus of a lot of history lessons, as well as getting rid of the blankness there is of teaching in that area, especially since on of the prevalent ideas of the Crusades, for example, was the Muslim-control of the Holy Lands, when that was one of many, many reasons and was the one leapt on by the Pope of the time (forget name, too tired for brain to function as well as I'd like) after being requested to send aid by Alexius I.

But then I'm also massively biased towards that period.

I'd also agree with your comments on the capability of teachers - obviously the best ones will be attracted towards the better places. A lot of people would choose a nice grammar school over some shitty, inner city comprehensives. I know I would, if I was ever in that situation.

the most important things you learn at school, are how the world works and how to behave once you leave school, that should be the focus of primary education.

No. That should be taught at home. Education should be an academic exercise to improve the mind, remedy the soul and broaden one's knowledge.

Spot on, really.

I'd like to add the Byzantine Empire, at least a bit of the earlier stuff, to steer away from Western Europe being the focus of a lot of history lessons, as well as getting rid of the blankness there is of teaching in that area, especially since on of the prevalent ideas of the Crusades, for example, was the Muslim-control of the Holy Lands, when that was one of many, many reasons and was the one leapt on by the Pope of the time (forget name, too tired for brain to function as well as I'd like) after being requested to send aid by Alexius I.

But then I'm also massively biased towards that period.

I'd also agree with your comments on the capability of teachers - obviously the best ones will be attracted towards the better places. A lot of people would choose a nice grammar school over some shitty, inner city comprehensives. I know I would, if I was ever in that situation.

Absolutely. The Byzantine empire, and near east in general, is the crux of occidental history, and should be treated as such. I'm currently reading as much as I can into Anatolia and the Levant from the tenth to fourteenth centuries, and it really is far more interesting than the Latin west at that point.

No. That should be taught at home. Education should be an academic exercise to improve the mind, remedy the soul and broaden one's knowledge.

you would hope these things are learnt at home, but not all children are that lucky, which is why they should be taught at school, or for thoose lucky enought to be taught this at home, it would reinforce there importance, i.e. win-win!

Absolutely. The Byzantine empire, and near east in general, is the crux of occidental history, and should be treated as such. I'm currently reading as much as I can into Anatolia and the Levant from the tenth to fourteenth centuries, and it really is far more interesting than the Latin west at that point.
Read the Alexiad by Anna Commena, if you've not done so. Brilliant book (admittedly, I've only read a translation), written by a daughter of an emperor and covers at time period which is essentially one of the periods in world history where the ripples of actions are very much still being felt today, even though it's coming on a thousand years since the events happened.

Read the Alexiad by Anna Commena, if you've not done so. Brilliant book (admittedly, I've only read a translation), written by a daughter of an emperor and covers at time period which is essentially one of the periods in world history where the ripples of actions are very much still being felt today, even though it's coming on a thousand years since the events happened.

It's the account of the first crusade yes? I probbaly should. I'll do so as soon as possible.

I'm currently reading the "secret history of the Mongols". Bloody interesting as an example of Imperial ideology and mythic, retrospective propaganda. A Mogol "Aenied" of sorts.

If you fail to study the past you are doomed to repeat it... Repeat it... Repeat it...

In other words, history.

you would hope these things are learnt at home, but not all children are that lucky, which is why they should be taught at school, or for thoose lucky enought to be taught this at home, it would reinforce there importance, i.e. win-win!

That is premised upon the notion that what you propose and I propose are not mutually exclusive, which is simply fictive. In dedicating itself to the prosaic ends of the wider world, school inevitably neglects the abstract concerns to which it should dedicate itself.

It's the account of the first crusade yes? I probbaly should. I'll do so as soon as possible.
A large portion of the book does cover the First Crusade, but it also concerns itself with the loss of the last Byzantine strongholds in Italy, the taking of the crown by Alexius Commenus, forays into the Empire by various barbarian tribes. It's a very Byzantino-centric (made up word, I think) view of the Near East, but one that does, I feel, add a different perspective on a lot of the events, since it's usually covered with a very western spin. It's also a rare surviving account by someone who was so close to the centre of power and done by a female member of an Imperial family.

I must say I do feel I need to read more stuff about the Mongols and a lot of these tribes, especially the early history of Turkic peoples. I think I'm in danger of being sucked into the Byzantine Empire too much.

A large portion of the book does cover the First Crusade, but it also concerns itself with the loss of the last Byzantine strongholds in Italy, the taking of the crown by Alexius Commenus, forays into the Empire by various barbarian tribes. It's a very Byzantino-centric (made up word, I think) view of the Near East, but one that does, I feel, add a different perspective on a lot of the events, since it's usually covered with a very western spin. It's also a rare surviving account by someone who was so close to the centre of power and done by a female member of an Imperial family.

I must say I do feel I need to read more stuff about the Mongols and a lot of these tribes, especially the early history of Turkic peoples. I think I'm in danger of being sucked into the Byzantine Empire too much.

It sounds fascinating. On the same note, and not to feed your addiction, but try Procopius. He was Belisarius' aid, and writes of his conquest of Gothic Italy, Visigoth Spain and Vandal Africa for Justinian. Much the same characteristics an limitations, but fascinating all the same.

No. That should be taught at home. Education should be an academic exercise to improve the mind, remedy the soul and broaden one's knowledge.

School is the best place for children to learn how to interact with people their own age. And familial interaction is much different than interacting with your friends or coworkers (co-students?).

Not to say home-schooling is a bad thing. They usually get outside interactions through church groups and home-school organizations, or that's what I've noticed a lot.

Why should I feel guilty that you have an abominably poor vocabulary?

Well, that compliment certainly didn't go over as planned. That's what I get for trying to be witty. :headbang:

It sounds fascinating. On the same note, and not to feed your addiction, but try Procopius. He was Belisarius' aid, and writes of his conquest of Gothic Italy, Visigoth Spain and Vandal Africa for Justinian. Much the same characteristics an limitations, but fascinating all the same.
:D

Bought the book the Secret History last week, following an exam. I'm about a third of the way through it, but I want to finish a fantasy book I'm reading before I properly attempt it. I'd love to get my hands on the History of the Wars, but it looks rather expensive.

Procopius strikes me as a fascinating character on his own, as amongst other things he advocates converting if one is being threatened with death for not being of the "right" religion, essentially just toeing the line, as it's "only religion". I was kind of labouring under the impression that people of that period were very much all fiery Christians, which was nicely dispelled by that book. That, and the fact that the old-style Roman and Greek polytheism was still about in the 500s, which I also didn't realise.

School is the best place for children to learn how to interact with people their own age. And familial interaction is much different than interacting with your friends or coworkers (co-students?).

Not to say home-schooling is a bad thing. They usually get outside interactions through church groups and home-school organizations, or that's what I've noticed a lot.

Largely irrelevant. One learns the rudiments of social interaction at home and in extracurricular time, and therafter applies it to the social aspect of school.

:D

Bought the book the Secret History last week, following an exam. I'm about a third of the way through it, but I want to finish a fantasy book I'm reading before I properly attempt it. I'd love to get my hands on the History of the Wars, but it looks rather expensive.

Procopius strikes me as a fascinating character on his own, seeing as he advocates converting if one is being threatened with death for not being of the "right" religion, essentially just toeing the line, as it's "only religion". I was kind of labouring under the impression that people of that period were very much all fiery Christians, which was nicely dispelled by that book. That, and the fact that the old-style Roman and Greek polytheism was still about in the 500s, which I also didn't realise.

"History of the Wars" is good. Far beyond my price range as well (my book list for the summer is scarily long....), but bloody good. Boethius is much the same; a traditional, patrician Roman deprived of his senatorial role and senatorial religion, exemplifying the more circumspect, intellectual traditions of his class than the fanatical christianity one might expect. Much like Cassiodorus in fact.

"History of the Wars" is good. Far beyond my price range as well (my book list for the summer is scarily long....), but bloody good. Boethius is much the same; a traditional, patrician Roman deprived of his senatorial role and senatorial religion, exemplifying the more circumspect, intellectual traditions of his class than the fanatical christianity one might expect. Much like Cassiodorus in fact.
Gah, there's a fair few of that sort I want to lay my hands on. I want to re-read the Fourteen Byzantine Rulers by Psellus, but I didn't really like it first time around, but I really think I need to give it another try.

It's nearly a thousand years old, it can't be that bad.

it's not 'mother tongue' ; sounds oedipal and creepy. It is language arts.

Just because you have a dirty mind does not mean we should suffer for it. :D

It's more accurate than language arts, as what language are we speaking of, your primary or secondary ones? There's a big difference. I called it a Mother Tongue, as not all of us learn in English as a first language.

If you fail to study the past you are doomed to repeat it... Repeat it... Repeat it...

In other words, history.

History. History. History. History. History. History. History. History. History. History. History. History. History. History. History. History. History. History.

What?

I voted Mathematics, but what I think is most important apparently isn't taught well by schools: skepticism and critical thinking.

I voted Mathematics, but what I think is most important apparently isn't taught well by schools: skepticism and critical thinking.

Speaking of which, this thread seems like it's become a contest of History Vs. Mathematics.

Perhaps I'm simply asking the wrong crowd? :p

Also, no votes for P.E. yet. Again, wrong crowd? :D

Also, no votes for P.E. yet. Again, wrong crowd? :D

Those who can't, teach. Those who can't teach, teach Phys. Ed.

Natural sciences, although ironically I never really liked them.

A grasp of the sciences is essential to people living in a modern technological society. What high schools teach right now is sufficient, in my opinion.

I'm one of those people who did not find any of the stuff I was taught in high school boring and useless, partially because I enjoy learning, and partially because I have chosen a career as a physicist. Therefore, I need calculus.

I do think that calculus should not be required for high schoolers. Many people will not need it, and those who will can learn it in college. I don't think it should be struck from curriculum - but it should take second place to learning math that is useful, ie statistics.

I'm honestly surprised not more people have picked foreign languages...

Considering all things I learned at school, languages are what I'm using most these days, and most certainly had the biggest impact on my career and personal life.
All the rest is simple knowledge... nice to have, might influence your salary as well a bit. Languages on the other hand will open so many doors and will have such a dramatic influence on the way you can actually perceive the world, I think they should most certainly have the most focus at school.

Maths, on the other hand, always felt more or less useless... it was little more than a form of mental masturbation. Sure, you need to be able to calculate, but I can honestly say that trigonometry and calculus will have very little practical use in day-to-day life (unless you want to persue a career in that field, ofd course).
I think that maths as a subject is getting more time and focus than it deserves at schools.

Even if you don't want to go in to performing, music is a different monster from most disciplines. Even the way you approach history can be extremely different. Going from my major coursework to my minor coursework has been quite an experience, because while both are similar on the surface it takes a much different perspective to get through music courses than recording courses.

Agreed mostly. But, although I study music, I bring in interests from other areas. In general, music takes things from other areas but applies them specifically to music, but the range of it is quite unique. I've done aspects of history, physics of sound, biology of the ear and brain, psychology of the brain, development of childrens' brain, analysis of patterns and symbols, generative processes from language - but all in relation to music, so skills from outside are always useful but we just use them for our own purposes. :)

Maths, on the other hand, always felt more or less useless... it was little more than a form of mental masturbation. Sure, you need to be able to calculate, but I can honestly say that trigonometry and calculus will have very little practical use in day-to-day life (unless you want to persue a career in that field, ofd course).
I think that maths as a subject is getting more time and focus than it deserves at schools.

I could try to change your mind about that, but I get the feeling I'd have to teach you the math first.

I could try to change your mind about that, but I get the feeling I'd have to teach you the math first.

You think you'd be more successful than 13 years of 6 hours a week maths lessons? ;)

History?
Yes when i try to find a flat or apply for financial support History is always useless. I can tell you a brief summary of how Italy was unified or how Britain got more Democratic, but i'll still struggle to get a good job, hmmm something missing there.
I put social sciences because of the huge numbers of people in this world we need to learn more about how they interact.
Maths is okay, but i can understand why some people hate it, it's so dull and boring.
I don't know why Art and creative things isn't higher, isn't that what the internet is? and they're really fun, well some of it.

Social sciences, easily. Psychology should be taught in middle schools, at the latest.

You think you'd be more successful than 13 years of 6 hours a week maths lessons? ;)

Hence my distinct lack of trying. :p

I favor a good general education. Solid grounding in math and science so humanities types won't keep inserting foot in mouth while propounding on things about which they wish to remain ignorant. Solid grounding in language, politics and history so scientists will have a context for their work and will be able to explain it to non-science types without using a technical vocabulary.

I'd say:

Math at least through calculus
Biology
Zoology
Chemistry
Physics
Astronomy
your own language and literature
language and literature of at least one other country
world history (not just a Eurocentric view, but an overall view including Asia, Europe, the Americas, the Middle East, Africa, Oceania, etc.)
Logic
Political theory (an overall approach so the misguided will actually understand the basic flaws in their pet systems)
The history of one's own country

and practical education

Cooking
First Aid
Survival skills, including, but not limited to - balancing a checkbook, filling out forms, computer skills, hygiene, wilderness survival.

After you get all this down, you can start to specialize.

Start young!

Maths, science and foreign languages. I'm ok at the first, am interested in but generally don't understand the second, and, with a lot of application, could probably learn a couple of foreign languages.

However, I have a degree in history. Don't know what that says about me.

I'm honestly surprised not more people have picked foreign languages...
Yeah, me too. I'm also surprised that history is leading the way. Though I've not read much of the thread, so I haven't really seen anyone's justification for their choices.

Math. It's built on logic. I have noticed that most of the people I know who absolutely suck at thinking about things critically have a piss poor education in math.
I favor a good general education. Solid grounding in math and science so humanities types won't keep inserting foot in mouth while propounding on things about which they wish to remain ignorant. Solid grounding in language, politics and history so scientists will have a context for their work and will be able to explain it to non-science types without using a technical vocabulary.

I'd say:

Math at least through calculus
Biology
Zoology
Chemistry
Physics
Astronomy
your own language and literature
language and literature of at least one other country
world history (not just a Eurocentric view, but an overall view including Asia, Europe, the Americas, the Middle East, Africa, Oceania, etc.)
Logic
Political theory (an overall approach so the misguided will actually understand the basic flaws in their pet systems)
The history of one's own country

and practical education

Cooking
First Aid
Survival skills, including, but not limited to - balancing a checkbook, filling out forms, computer skills, hygiene, wilderness survival.

After you get all this down, you can start to specialize.

Start young!

These two mention what I would consider the most important, and unfortunately lacking, facet of education any person can obtain. This doesn't mean that mathematics should receive emphasis, logic and mathematics overlap to a great extent but they are two different fields of study, but it does mean that logic should be taught continuously throughout High School.

Logical, and thus critical, thinking is a skill that will not only stay with you for your entire life, but it will enrich your life simply by the virtue that it is, for lack of a better word, "correct" thinking.

Mathematics. It's vital to any advanced study of science (except, perhaps, for a few of the duller parts of Biology :p) and it's something that's pretty hard to pick up independently.

Want to know how the Universe came into being? You need Maths.
Want to know why Evolution works? You need Maths.
Want to understand the laws that govern the natural world? You need Maths.
Want to quantify the information content of any given message, or understand why an optimally encoded message is indistinguishable from random noise if you don't know the encryption? You need Maths.

Maths is the truest and most beautiful subject there is, and is central to so many other disciplines that it's probably the most wide-ranging area of study.

Mathematics. It's vital to any advanced study of science (except, perhaps, for a few of the duller parts of Biology :p) and it's something that's pretty hard to pick up independently.

Want to know how the Universe came into being? You need Maths.
Want to know why Evolution works? You need Maths.
Want to understand the laws that govern the natural world? You need Maths.
Want to quantify the information content of any given message, or understand why an optimally encoded message is indistinguishable from random noise if you don't know the encryption? You need Maths.

Maths is the truest and most beautiful subject there is, and is central to so many other disciplines that it's probably the most wide-ranging area of study.

I suppose you could say you would equally need language, as well though, really, if you're using that sort of logic. After all, without the language to organize and contextualize the math, it's all just numbers without ties to the real world, right?

Social sciences, easily. Psychology should be taught in middle schools, at the latest.

I could cry. "Social sciences" are just so grindingly dull.

I could cry. "Social sciences" are just so grindingly dull.I suppose they can be, but so can history if it isn't taught right.

I don't think any particular subject is that important. Basic knowledge in all areas is helpful but the main things are learning skills, and that depends on the way subjects are taught, and can really apply to any subject.

Encouraging curiosity, thoughtfulness, logical thinking, and creativity can be done through maths, history, psychology, science, languages etc etc.

I don't think any particular subject is that important. Basic knowledge in all areas is helpful but the main things are learning skills, and that depends on the way subjects are taught, and can really apply to any subject.

Encouraging curiosity, thoughtfulness, logical thinking, and creativity can be done through maths, history or psychology.

I suppose. But could you say there is any one particular subject that is indispensable?

I suppose. But could you say there is any one particular subject that is indispensable?
No.
You probably need some basic maths, and to be able to write and read.
Then I'd prioritise skills such as those I mentioned.

Then I'd say that it's preferable to have some basic knowledge about history, languages, sciences etc and then any specialised knowledge in the areas you are interested in/need for a job but I don't think any of them are necessary or indispensable.

edit: I've nothing against academia/education/learning etc. I love it! I never want to stop learning new stuff :P

I say take a year off to work and see what you want to do after you have lived a tad (then again what do kids in America do for fun?)

failing that do sociology because if its anything like in Britain you will quite literally die with how easy it is and open up a career as "management material" who gets everything on a silver platter whilst psychology students get looked at with disgust at every interview :mad::p

I say take a year off to work and see what you want to do after you have lived a tad (then again what do kids in America do for fun?)

failing that do sociology because if its anything like in Britain you will quite literally die with how easy it is and open up a career as "management material" who gets everything on a silver platter whilst psychology students get looked at with disgust at every interview :mad::p

Did you just imply American children's lives are not fun?:eek: American children's lives are practically centered around fun entirely!

Poor psychologists.