NationStates Jolt Archive

Ummmm... yeah. Hagee claims that because Hitler caused the Jews (what was left of them) to recreate Israel - a major component in evangelical Christianity's doomsday scenario (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Coming) - he was doing God's will.

Linky (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/21/mccain-backer-hagee-said_n_102892.html) (with audio).

Hagee seems to have parted ways with the reality-based community. Thoughts?

(And yes, I know I Godwin'd myself in the OP. Sue me.)

The fact that you posted it here means that you think it is significant enough to warrant an NSG discussion. Why?

You didnt godwin anything. Godwin's law is comparing somebody to hitler to make them look bad, you just mentioned him in connection with something.

The fact that you posted it here means that you think it is significant enough to warrant an NSG discussion. Why?

McCain openly sought out Hagee's endorsement as a means of bridging the gap between McCain and the religious right. This should be significantly more of a scandal for McCain than Wright was for Obama, but sadly I doubt this is going to get much press.

The fact that you posted it here means that you think it is significant enough to warrant an NSG discussion. Why?

Let's see, maybe it's because Rev. Hagee is a highly influential Evangelical speaker, who has been courted by McCain? Maybe because he is essentially saying that shoving six million innocent people into the FUCKING GAS CHAMBERS was a good thing? Gee, golly, I can't imagine why that would be a controversial, can you?

dumb question... who's this Hagee bloke?:confused:

McCain openly sought out Hagee's endorsement as a means of bridging the gap between McCain and the religious right. This should be significantly more of a scandal for McCain than Wright was for Obama, but sadly I doubt this is going to get much press.

Oh. So this is a discussion on American politics rather than God?

Meh. Can't be bovvered.

*leaves discussion*

You didnt godwin anything. Godwin's law is comparing somebody to hitler to make them look bad, you just mentioned him in connection with something.

That's good to hear. For some reason, I thought merely mentioning Hitler was enough for a Godwin. Ya learn something new every day, I suppose. Thanks!

With the support of Hagee and Rod "Christianity Needs To Wipe Out Izlam" Parsley, how people still believe John McCain is a "moderate" is a mystery right up there with UFOs, Bigfoot, Elvis, and Jimmy Hoffa.

McCain openly sought out Hagee's endorsement as a means of bridging the gap between McCain and the religious right. This should be significantly more of a scandal for McCain than Wright was for Obama, but sadly I doubt this is going to get much press.

In that case, we would do well to make sure it DOES, would we not? Forward this to everyone you know!

Oh. So this is a discussion on American politics rather than God?

Meh. Can't be bovvered.

*leaves discussion*

Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out.

In that case, we would do well to make sure it DOES, would we not? Forward this to everyone you know!

One of the reasons I posted this. The other one, of course, is to point and laugh at the moron.

In that case, we would do well to make sure it DOES, would we not? Forward this to everyone you know!

No one I know works in the media, and as far as I know, none of the acquaintances of the people I know work in the media. Mostly I'd be distributing this to people who either A: already know about it, or B: aren't surprised about it.

Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out.

I would say that was a little uncalled for.

No one I know works in the media, and as far as I know, none of the acquaintances of the people I know work in the media. Mostly I'd be distributing this to people who either A: already know about it, or B: aren't surprised about it.

It was more a general appeal than something specifically directed at yourself. Ah well. Let's see what can we do with YouTube.

McCain must be stopped. And it would be a great honor for me to be the one to do it.

I would say that was a little uncalled for.

Maybe. My idiot tolerance is very, very low today. Not enough sleep.

Ummmm... yeah. Hagee claims that because Hitler caused the Jews (what was left of them) to recreate Israel - a major component in evangelical Christianity's doomsday scenario (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Coming) - he was doing God's will.

Linky (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/21/mccain-backer-hagee-said_n_102892.html) (with audio).

Hagee seems to have parted ways with the reality-based community. Thoughts?

(And yes, I know I Godwin'd myself in the OP. Sue me.)

Traditional Christianity would say that nothing within the scope of history happens in spite of God. Every thing that happens could arguably be called a part of His plan. 'Course that ain't exactly what happened here, but worth a mention.

And let's not forget this is the same John Hagee who declared that Hurricane Katrina was God's Punishment™ for New Orleans condoning homosexuality and sodomy.

Don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out.
You are American but spell British? I don't believe it!!:eek:

™

The guy wins with this one character...

Sadly, I find this not even a little bit surprising. Flagrant antisemitism is an established part of the really-wacky-evangelical repertoire. Many of the folks who fervently believe that the End of Days is coming soon are very supportive of Israel, for the explicit reason that the Jews all need to be gathered in the Holy Land so God can properly destroy them. At this point, while this sort of nonsense is certainly disturbing, it's not really startling.

You are American but spell British? I don't believe it!!:eek:

My grandma's from York and I grew up on Britcoms. That, and my mom didn't want to swear in American in front of us when we were younger, so she swore in British. I make my grandma blush when I get mad...:)

Sadly, I find this not even a little bit surprising. Flagrant antisemitism is an established part of the really-wacky-evangelical repertoire. Many of the folks who fervently believe that the End of Days is coming soon are very supportive of Israel, for the explicit reason that the Jews all need to be gathered in the Holy Land so God can properly destroy them. At this point, while this sort of nonsense is certainly disturbing, it's not really startling.

What bothers me about this (other than claim the Holocaust was OK by God) is that McCain is actively courting this guy's support/endorsement. It doesn't seem right to pander to people who say things like this, when Obama was forced by public opinion to distance himself from the pastor who married him for much, much less.

Maybe. My idiot tolerance is very, very low today. Not enough sleep.

I wouldn't say it's idiotic to interpret a thread about an American pastor to be about religion. You gave no indication in your OP that this had to do with Hagee because of his involvement with McCain, and you can't expect non-Americans to have understood that going into this discussion. Nor should you heckle someone who chose to leave the thread after realizing his initial interpretation was mistaken.

But, given that I'm presently laid up with a head cold, konked out on Robitussin, and also suffering from a lack of sleep, perhaps I'm being a little too harsh. So here's a lolcat: http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/funny-pictures-raccoon-came-to-burgle.jpg

I wouldn't say it's idiotic to interpret a thread about an American pastor to be about religion. You gave no indication in your OP that this had to do with Hagee because of his involvement with McCain, and you can't expect non-Americans to have understood that going into this discussion. Nor should you heckle someone who chose to leave the thread after realizing his initial interpretation was mistaken.

Excellent points. I do tend to assume people have some bloody clue what I'm talking about (ask redwulf...)

But, given that I'm presently laid up with a head cold, konked out on Robitussin, and also suffering from a lack of sleep, perhaps I'm being a little too harsh. So here's a lolcat: http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/funny-pictures-raccoon-came-to-burgle.jpg

LOLcat! I luvs me sum Lolcats!

My grandma's from York and I grew up on Britcoms. That, and my mom didn't want to swear in American in front of us when we were younger, so she swore in British. I make my grandma blush when I get mad...:)

You are the hope of America!!!

I wouldn't say it's idiotic to interpret a thread about an American pastor to be about religion. You gave no indication in your OP that this had to do with Hagee because of his involvement with McCain, and you can't expect non-Americans to have understood that going into this discussion. Nor should you heckle someone who chose to leave the thread after realizing his initial interpretation was mistaken.


Thanks, but you can leave him! He spells in British!!! :D

You are the hope of America!!!

Thank you, good sir/madam/person of indeterminate gender!

Thanks, but you can leave him! He spells in British!!! :D

Me = woman. redwulf = man, he's my hubby. But thanks for the compliment!

Me = woman. redwulf = man, he's my hubby. But thanks for the compliment!

Please accept my humblest apologies. I seem to have this perception that everyone I meet on here is male.

Anyway, I shall stop hijacking this thread. :p

*leaves, and carefully avoids the door on my arse*

dumb question... who's this Hagee bloke?:confused:

A Fundie preacher and complete fucktard.

A Fundie preacher and complete fucktard.

Succinct but insulting. Excellent.

If there is any justice in the world the media will play that sound bite over and over again, and smear McCain like they did to Obama with Reverend Wright.

If there is any justice in the world the media will play that sound bite over and over again, and smear McCain like they did to Obama with Reverend Wright.

Olbermann's doing so as we speak.

If there is any justice in the world the media will play that sound bite over and over again, and smear McCain like they did to Obama with Reverend Wright.

You'd think, wouldn't you? But heaven forfend anyone in the media pay any attention to little things like, oh, I don't know, facts.

Olbermann's doing so as we speak.

If only there was footage of Rod Parsley's "Onward Christian Soldiers, Kill Teh Ebil Mozlemz" sermon he could play with it.

Olbermann's doing so as we speak.

Dammit, we don't have cable. Can't wait until it gets onto the web page.

The truly scary part is that 1/5 of voting Democrats said race played a part in their voting. That, combined with the crazy right-wingers illustrated in this thread, scares me for November.

I'm very scared...*hides in Canada, votes by absentee*

Sorry I'm late on this, but just a quick note: Godwin's Law is not a logical fallacy. It is merely a collective groan.

The truly scary part is that 1/5 of voting Democrats said race played a part in their voting.

Just remember what Twain said about lies, damn lies, and statistics. Having worked in the market research field, I know just how difficult it is to stay neutral when a study is well-worded. If the questions aren't worded neutrally, or the person giving the study is not asking them neutrally, it can seriously skew the results. Also, watch the margin of error. The higher it is, generally, the less reliable the study.

Also, did the study take into account whether race was a positive or negative factor in voting? (eg did a person vote for Obama only because he's black?) That might account for the high number, also.

Olbermann's doing so as we speak.

Is it on the intertubes yet? the only US news channel I have is CNN.

I think it's important not to take this lunatic seriously. If you do, you end up getting worked up over the comments of every idiot and his dog, and life's too short for that. My advice for the next time somebody does something like this? Laugh in their face, and move on. That infuriates 99% of those whackos. Alternatively, if there's a news article about it, post it on www.fark.com, and give us all a good laugh. If people are absolutely determined to make fools of themselves with stupidities like that, than that's where they can go.

I think it's important not to take this lunatic seriously. If you do, you end up getting worked up over the comments of every idiot and his dog, and life's too short for that. My advice for the next time somebody does something like this? Laugh in their face, and move on. That infuriates 99% of those whackos. Alternatively, if there's a news article about it, post it on www.fark.com, and give us all a good laugh. If people are absolutely determined to make fools of themselves with stupidities like that, than that's where they can go.

Again, the reason people are getting worked up over this loon is that the republican candidate in our next election specifically sought him out to get his endorsement. This is the kind of person one of our presidential candidates should ally himself with?

Hagee is a batshit insane fucktard. just sayin

Just remember what Twain said about lies, damn lies, and statistics.
That was Benjamin Disraeli, not Twain.

Let's see, maybe it's because Rev. Hagee is a highly influential Evangelical speaker, who has been courted by McCain? Maybe because he is essentially saying that shoving six million innocent people into the FUCKING GAS CHAMBERS was a good thing? Gee, golly, I can't imagine why that would be a controversial, can you?

I don't support Hagee or McCain, but the bolded above was not said. If you can post a link to where he said "essentially" that, I'll retract this.

I say this because opposition to the religious and conservative fundamental movement is ineffectual when it's based on the same use of hyperbole and misrepresentation that they use against their opponents. In short, we shouldn't sink to their level.

Twain said this: "suppose you are an idiot. Now suppose you are a member of Congress. But I repeat myself".

Hagee arg. The Fundies take the Christian name and slander it worse then Atheists! They're not Christians, they're a moronic cult with crazy beliefs. Please post it on youtube and e-mail the linky to all friends. McCain needs to be shown for who he truly is and so does Hagee.

I don't support Hagee or McCain, but the bolded above was not said. If you can post a link to where he said "essentially" that, I'll retract this.

I say this because opposition to the religious and conservative fundamental movement is ineffectual when it's based on the same use of hyperbole and misrepresentation that they use against their opponents. In short, we shouldn't sink to their level.

When you try to justify the Holocaust, then you imply that its conduct was also justified.

Also, Hagee is basically giving Hitler the Judas treatment. Judas was only capable of being Judas and thus HAD to betray Jesus in order for His destiny to be fulfilled. Again, not saying that it's necessarily correct, but trying to blunt the histrionics.

That was Benjamin Disraeli, not Twain.

Huh, I've always heard Twain get the credit. When did that happen I wonder . . . (goes to check)

<edit: Ahh, according to Wikipedia at least, Twain is the one who popularized the saying in the US. This lead, inevitably I suppose, to Americans deciding he was the one who came up with it.>

When you try to justify the Holocaust, then you imply that its conduct was also justified.

You needn't state the totally obvious. The merely obvious will do just fine.

Or, "no shit?"

I'll need further explanation of your post to really understand what you're trying to say. I did not excuse Hagee's remarks. I merely am trying to avoid painting someone's words with too broad a brush because that's exactly what he would do to someone I'd likely support.

You needn't state the totally obvious. The merely obvious will do just fine.

Or, "no shit?"

I'll need further explanation of your post to really understand what you're trying to say. I did not excuse Hagee's remarks. I merely am trying to avoid painting someone's words with too broad a brush because that's exactly what he would do to someone I'd likely support.

Hagee justified the Holocaust, or tried to do so. That's the same as justifying shoving over six million innocents in stoves or forcing them to dig their own graves. Ignorance is not an excuse. Everyone knows how terrible Hitler was after he went power-mad (1938 and later on) so if one tries to justify his actions, one supports his polices. So saying that "The Holocaust was meant to happen" is the same as saying that "I support forcing six million innocents to dig their own graves". We can use that against McCain.

Hagee justified the Holocaust, or tried to do so. That's the same as justifying shoving over six million innocents in stoves or forcing them to dig their own graves. Ignorance is not an excuse. Everyone knows how terrible Hitler was after he went power-mad (1938 and later on) so if one tries to justify his actions, one supports his polices. So saying that "The Holocaust was meant to happen" is the same as saying that "I support forcing six million innocents to dig their own graves". We can use that against McCain.

Come on.

I disagree. I don't see Hagee extolling the fact of the Holocaust. I think it's too much of a leap to say that one's religion needed to see Israel reconstituted means that the means to that end were peachy. It's too simple.

When you try to justify the Holocaust, then you imply that its conduct was also justified.

Well god did let it happen so...

Also, Hagee is basically giving Hitler the Judas treatment. Judas was only capable of being Judas and thus HAD to betray Jesus in order for His destiny to be fulfilled. Again, not saying that it's necessarily correct, but trying to blunt the histrionics.

That's the poorest analogy I have ever seen. Judas repented at the end, Hitler didn't and that's just the most blunt counter-argument to that analogy.

That's the poorest analogy I have ever seen. Judas repented at the end, Hitler didn't and that's just the most blunt counter-argument to that analogy.

No. Judas became an hero. Not the same thing.

When you try to justify the Holocaust, then you imply that its conduct was also justified.

You needn't state the totally obvious. The merely obvious will do just fine.

Or, "no shit?"

I'll need further explanation of your post to really understand what you're trying to say. I did not excuse Hagee's remarks. I merely am trying to avoid painting someone's words with too broad a brush because that's exactly what he would do to someone I'd likely support.

If you agree with what Shofercia just said, then how are Kbrookistans comments "painting his words with too broad a brush"?

Well god did let it happen so...

Because God gave humans free will. When you are raising your kid, you can keep him on a leash, or you can give him free will. Should you choose to give him free will, are you now to blame for his every action? After all you did let it happen...

Come on.

I disagree. I don't see Hagee extolling the fact of the Holocaust. I think it's too much of a leap to say that one's religion needed to see Israel reconstituted means that the means to that end were peachy. It's too simple.

Hagee is abusing religion to build a cult following, just like the rest of the Fundies. The Fundie Doctrine calls for the death of all Jews at the end. Shish, look it up for crying out loud. And it's not a religion, it's abuse of a religion.

No. Judas became an hero. Not the same thing.

The point I was making is that anyone who compares Judas to Hitler needs to be sent back to first grade in logic school...

Because God gave humans free will. When you are raising your kid, you can keep him on a leash, or you can give him free will. Should you choose to give him free will, are you now to blame for his every action? After all you did let it happen...

Eh? If I knew my kid - or anyone I could stop - was about to shove twelve million people into gas ovens, of course I would stop them. And I would feel pretty shitty if I 'let it happen'.

And maybe that hagee dude is all into predestination.

Eh? If I knew my kid - or anyone I could stop - was about to shove twelve million people into gas ovens, of course I would stop them. And I would feel pretty shitty if I 'let it happen'.

And maybe that hagee dude is all into predestination.

I'd rather have to fight for my rights against the likes of Hitler then be enslaved.

As for Hagee, I don't know what he's into, I do know that if he gets power, we will all be in deep shit.

That's the poorest analogy I have ever seen. Judas repented at the end, Hitler didn't and that's just the most blunt counter-argument to that analogy.

Had I made that analogy, you'd be right. I said "giving Hitler the Judas treatment". That means that he's saying that, like Judas, Hitler's destiny was to be Hitler, as Judas' destiny was to be Judas. I did not compare the two, I compared their similarity of destiny as suggested by Hagee. In no way am I endorsing the trivialization of the Holocaust or the excusing of it as a means to an end.

It's oversimplification of others' arguments that leads to the end of meaningful discourse.

The point I was making is that anyone who compares Judas to Hitler needs to be sent back to first grade in logic school...

Again, you missed the point. That's not my problem, it's yours.

Hagee is abusing religion to build a cult following, just like the rest of the Fundies. The Fundie Doctrine calls for the death of all Jews at the end. Shish, look it up for crying out loud. And it's not a religion, it's abuse of a religion.

That's as may be, but what else is new? Hagee has enough of a following to be able to abuse his religion as much as he deems necessary. All I'm saying is that adopting the tactics of your opponent when those tactics are disreputable doesn't bode well for discrediting your opponent.

I'd rather have to fight for my rights against the likes of Hitler then be enslaved.


What does that mean? I'm pretty sure everyone feels that way. It doesn't mean that god didn't let the holocaust happen because he thought it was a good idea.

With the support of Hagee and Rod "Christianity Needs To Wipe Out Izlam" Parsley, how people still believe John McCain is a "moderate" is a mystery right up there with UFOs, Bigfoot, Elvis, and Jimmy Hoffa.

Or perhaps the fact that he has the support of the religious right is simply essential to winning the Republican ticket anymore, and really doesn’t have anything to do with him being moderate or not? It’s his policies that make him a moderate, not his supporters. Geez.

McCain openly sought out Hagee's endorsement as a means of bridging the gap between McCain and the religious right. This should be significantly more of a scandal for McCain than Wright was for Obama, but sadly I doubt this is going to get much press.

That’s because McCain doesn’t have a jealous wannabe candidate slinging mud at him from the sidelines along with her past-his-prime husband. Clinton is ruining the democrat’s chances. Republicans are simply sitting back and smiling.

Also, Hagee is basically giving Hitler the Judas treatment. Judas was only capable of being Judas and thus HAD to betray Jesus in order for His destiny to be fulfilled. Again, not saying that it's necessarily correct, but trying to blunt the histrionics.

Ah...the old contradiction of free will so present in the Bible.

What I love about this argument is that it would effectively make Judas the savior. After all, who, in the end, suffered more for your sins? Judas, who had no choice in the matter, betrayed his god, hung himself, and was sent to the deepest levels of hell to suffer for all eternity. Jesus was simply put to death, and even got to come back and continue preaching, before going up to heaven for the rest of eternity. I'd say Judas certainly put in more work.

Now naturally Judas "having" to betray Jesus doesn't make much sense, but Jesus somehow knows that Judas is going to do it. After all, had he not known, it would have called into question the omnipotence of God. But since he does know, Judas really didn't have a choice in the matter, and was destined to hell from the beginning. Certainly sticks a fork in the Christian belief of "free will."

/hijack

Ah...the old contradiction of free will so present in the Bible.

What I love about this argument is that it would effectively make Judas the savior. After all, who, in the end, suffered more for your sins? Judas, who had no choice in the matter, betrayed his god, hung himself, and was sent to the deepest levels of hell to suffer for all eternity. Jesus was simply put to death, and even got to come back and continue preaching, before going up to heaven for the rest of eternity. I'd say Judas certainly put in more work.

Now naturally Judas "having" to betray Jesus doesn't make much sense, but Jesus somehow knows that Judas is going to do it. After all, had he not known, it would have called into question the omnipotence of God. But since he does know, Judas really didn't have a choice in the matter, and was destined to hell from the beginning. Certainly sticks a fork in the Christian belief of "free will."

/hijack

God exists outside of time, so He arguably knew that Judas would do it since from His perspective Judas had already done it.

Ummmm... yeah. Hagee claims that because Hitler caused the Jews (what was left of them) to recreate Israel - a major component in evangelical Christianity's doomsday scenario (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Coming) - he was doing God's will.

There are indeed quite a few people that believe Hitler was the Jewish Messiah. Further fueled the rumours he had "Jewish blood" himself.

However, I notice that most people that have posted ontopic here focus on the gruesome nature of the holocaust and how wrong it is to try and justify it.

I see no reasoning as to why the guy is actually wrong from a religious perspective. What if God really wanted the Jews to suffer before they got the promised land ?

God exists outside of time, so He arguably knew that Judas would do it since from His perspective Judas had already done it.

It still abandons the idea of free will because time is not linear, and if it was, then everything would be predestinated, and Judas would be fucked either way.

Ah...the old contradiction of free will so present in the Bible.

What I love about this argument is that it would effectively make Judas the savior. After all, who, in the end, suffered more for your sins? Judas, who had no choice in the matter, betrayed his god, hung himself, and was sent to the deepest levels of hell to suffer for all eternity. Jesus was simply put to death, and even got to come back and continue preaching, before going up to heaven for the rest of eternity. I'd say Judas certainly put in more work.

Now naturally Judas "having" to betray Jesus doesn't make much sense, but Jesus somehow knows that Judas is going to do it. After all, had he not known, it would have called into question the omnipotence of God. But since he does know, Judas really didn't have a choice in the matter, and was destined to hell from the beginning. Certainly sticks a fork in the Christian belief of "free will."

/hijack

SOMEbody had to do it. Judas was it. Predestination or not, he was the man who sold out Jesus. I'm not sure where you get the idea that I'm a proponent of the Christian notion of free will. Most popular Christian notions, or at least the way they get used for manipulation, make me itch.

There are indeed quite a few people that believe Hitler was the Jewish Messiah. Further fueled the rumours he had "Jewish blood" himself.

However, I notice that most people that have posted ontopic here focus on the gruesome nature of the holocaust and how wrong it is to try and justify it.

I see no reasoning as to why the guy is actually wrong from a religious perspective. What if God really wanted the Jews to suffer before they got the promised land ?

Kinda my original point. Hagee can hang himself without artificially extending his argument via the same kind of misrepresentation and hyperbole which characterizes his ilk's debate style.

SOMEbody had to do it. Judas was it. Predestination or not, he was the man who sold out Jesus. I'm not sure where you get the idea that I'm a proponent of the Christian notion of free will. Most popular Christian notions, or at least the way they get used for manipulation, make me itch.

I'm not sure where you get the notion that I'm saying you agree with free will, or that I disagree with you. Lol if anything it's the opposite. I was kinda just expanding on what you said.

And why did someone have to do it? Could they not have arrested him without a traitor? Also, you can't say "predestination or not." It's a HUGE difference. Religion-shaking, in fact.

Or perhaps the fact that he has the support of the religious right is simply essential to winning the Republican ticket anymore, and really doesn’t have anything to do with him being moderate or not? It’s his policies that make him a moderate, not his supporters. Geez.

And common sense dictates that if a group is essential to winning the ticket and the election, then screwing them over by not putting in policies to their liking is going to leave you branded in your own party afterwards. Look at what happened with Bush the Elder and "Read My Lips: No New Taxes" as an example of this. If McCain does win, it will be like Obama pretty much said, 4 more years of Bush with an added dose of Theocracy Flavoring.

If McCain does win, it will be like Obama pretty much said, 4 more years of Bush with an added dose of Theocracy Flavoring.


When and where did Obama say this?

I honestly don't see McCain as anywhere near as religious as Bush Jr. even claims to be.

I do however, see McCain to be a damn liar because he is attempting to play the political spectrum of his constituency. However, as a Poli Sci major I'm really starting to understand that McCain is really lying in order to get elected, and that is called politics of election. bleh

Also, at this point with McCain, I'd rather see him run as an Independent, with Lieberman as a running mate. THAT'S a ticket I'd vote for.

So, McCain gets elected and doesn't pay another visit to this Hagee guy, good for him, he'll be the better for it and if everyone is smart, they'll see how McCain played him for votes and then step away because he's a crazy dousche-bag.

When and where did Obama say this?

Obama: No 'third term' for Bush (http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2008/05/obama-no-third.html)

"At this defining moment in history –- a moment when we're facing two wars, an economy in turmoil, a planet in peril –- we can't afford to give John McCain the chance to serve out George Bush's third term," Obama said.

I honestly don't see McCain as anywhere near as religious as Bush Jr. even claims to be.

I do however, see McCain to be a damn liar because he is attempting to play the political spectrum of his constituency. However, as a Poli Sci major I'm really starting to understand that McCain is really lying in order to get elected, and that is called politics of election. bleh

Also, at this point with McCain, I'd rather see him run as an Independent, with Lieberman as a running mate. THAT'S a ticket I'd vote for.

So, McCain gets elected and doesn't pay another visit to this Hagee guy, good for him, he'll be the better for it and if everyone is smart, they'll see how McCain played him for votes and then step away because he's a crazy dousche-bag.

In addition to Hagee's endorsement, McCain has one Rod Parsley that he claims is his "spiritual guide". This is the same Ohio televangelist who called for Christians to rise up and declare war to wipe out "the false religion" Islam.

And unlike Obama who's still being harped on about Jeremiah Wright, the "liberal media" has yet to call McCain on either Hagee or Parsley.

Wait? We're in two wars? Is that even possible?

I think not.

Quote:
At this defining moment in history –- a moment when we're facing two wars, an economy in turmoil, a planet in peril –- we can't afford to give John McCain the chance to serve out George Bush's third term," Obama said.

Interesting interpretation of this sentence but I'll accept it. Just twisted enough to raise my ire thats all. ;)


I agree that Obama has taken way more heat than he should have in comparison. I believe that McCain is making a HUGE mistake seeking these endorcements and I honestly believe some campaign adviser is saying it's a good idea and McCain is pretty much goin along with it.

However, McCain doesn't have a nom to win, so he really doesn't get the press time Obama does. Explains the extra heat maybe??

It still abandons the idea of free will because time is not linear, and if it was, then everything would be predestinated, and Judas would be fucked either way.

No it doesn't. Judas still chose to betray Jesus entirely of his own accord.

Lol, Christian acolaplyse scenarios make me laugh, I like how Evangelicals say 'we will stand with Israel' and at the same time hold that when Jesus comes back he will kill all the Jews and everyone not a Christian (it's in Revelation)..

I wonder how the Jews feel about this deal:p

Lol, Christian acolaplyse scenarios make me laugh, I like how Evangelicals say 'we will stand with Israel' and at the same time hold that when Jesus comes back he will kill all the Jews and everyone not a Christian (it's in Revelation)..

I wonder how the Jews feel about this deal:p

I believe the idea is that the good jews will realize that jesus is the messiah at the last moment, and everything will be okay,

It's still a pretty shitty deal though. But who are we to challenge the will of god?

Could people please stop saying that the Holocaust killed six million people? It was more like twelve million, and I for one am offended when people leave out the non-Jewish victims without even thinking about it.

Ummmm... yeah. Hagee claims that because Hitler caused the Jews (what was left of them) to recreate Israel - a major component in evangelical Christianity's doomsday scenario (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Coming) - he was doing God's will.

Linky (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/21/mccain-backer-hagee-said_n_102892.html) (with audio).

Hagee seems to have parted ways with the reality-based community. Thoughts?

(And yes, I know I Godwin'd myself in the OP. Sue me.)

One of Israel's Chief Rabbis claimed the Jews deserved the Holocaust. Beat that for crazy.

Could people please stop saying that the Holocaust killed six million people? It was more like twelve million, and I for one am offended when people leave out the non-Jewish victims without even thinking about it.



I, um, think someone actually did say twelve million a little earlier and at the moment, we are discussing Jews. Sorry.

Although, he does have a point, it'd prolly be a little nicer if we did specify that Hitler killed six million Jews and a clown.

However, at 6, 12, whatever, when does it become a relevant distinction, no matter, that a s-load of people and it's still horrible.

I for one agree with the Romulan Republic. 13 million people died in the Holocaust.