NationStates Jolt Archive

Seems this town has ideas of creating a local currency. The aim by the organizers it seems is to keep more money in the towns economy. What do you think? Is this pie in the sky?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/working_lunch/7392286.stm

And then every town in England has it's own currency, and exchange rates go wild, and then the US accuses the towns of having WMDs. USA invades. You know the drill.

And then every town in England has it's own currency, and exchange rates go wild, and then the US accuses the towns of having WMDs. USA invades. You know the drill.

Now that I thought about this a bit. An incentive may be to link the currency to Gold. Would put the fiat currencies to shame. However they have to buy the Gold first. No small task.

Or we could all trade chickens, goats, cows and other farm animals or materials. w00t

Now that I thought about this a bit. An incentive may be to link the currency to Gold. Would put the fiat currencies to shame. However they have to buy the Gold first. No small task.

there isn't enough gold in the world to return all currencies to gold.

Or we could all trade chickens, goats, cows and other farm animals or materials. w00t

How many chickens for a new flat screen HDTV?

How many chickens for a new flat screen HDTV?

Three roosters per ten-inch diagonal measurement. Thus, a new 50-inch HDTV is fifteen roosters, and that 60-inch plasma screen is gonna cost you eighteen roosters. HD service costs another two hens per month, or three dozen eggs. Minimum. :D

A few towns in the US have done this as well. It's kind of a novel idea, really; obviously, for any transactions outside the town I wouldn't accept it, but within the town it would be a neat way to encourage locally produced and provided services.

How difficult do you think these town specific currencies would be to counterfeit?

It's not currency. It's coupons.

How difficult do you think these town specific currencies would be to counterfeit?

Depends on who makes it. There are some very good private companies out there that can make very good currencies.

there isn't enough gold in the world to return all currencies to gold.

I know that but you could produce a local Gold based currency.

LOLz, as if there weren't enough different types of currency already.

It used to be that way. Local banks used to issue private banknotes, though it was sort of regulated out of existence by the 1920s. You can still find them from time in museum and private collections.

Pretty sure it's a no-no these days.

Big F-ing no-no. They lock you up for long time and a big guy name Bubba becomes your new best friend for 15 years.

It used to be that way. Local banks used to issue private banknotes, though it was sort of regulated out of existence by the 1920s. You can still find them from time in museum and private collections.

Pretty sure it's a no-no these days.I'm pretty sure this would be entirely legal in the UK or at least in Scotland. The Bank of Scotland (not part of the government) issues its own banknotes that are backed by itself and not the Bank of England.

So I'm sure they could issue their own currency, but I'm pretty sure it would have to be redeemable on demand, and maybe even pegged to something of value. I suppose there will probably have to be some Financial Services Authority involvement so that the issuer has enough reserves to back the currency.

I saw the programme when is was broadcast. Or at least I think I did. If I remember rightly, the idea behind it was to encourage a local economy with a smaller carbon footprint rather than import goods from a long way away, rather than a local dissatisfaction with Sterling, hence no reason to do anything silly like go to a local gold standard, as if piddily little towns have enough gold anyway. In any case, I think they are pegged 1/1 with Sterling. I'll call the experiment a success when people have the confidence to get paid in the local currency, rather than Sterling.

There's already a number of successful local currency schemes operating in certain communities up and down the UK.

My home town operates one; in certain shops, you can be buy and pay in currency which isn't linked to the UK economy. I believe a consortium of businesses sets the value.

the idea behind it was to encourage a local economy with a smaller carbon footprint rather than import goods from a long way away, rather than a local dissatisfaction with Sterling

that's what i understood when i first heard about this.

i like the idea. its a practical way of encouraging the local multiplier effect to aid the local economy, rather than shoving money at large multinationals who do little (or nothing) to benefit your local town.

but, yeah, i don't think i'd want to be paid in the local currency. or, at least, most of my pay would have to be in £...

and there are other schemes out there similar to this. there's a place (can't remember where now) who do a local town loyalty card. shop at any of the town's local business' (rather than Tesco's for example) and you get loyalty points... which are good for something, presumably. similar idea.

I hope the people responsible get rightly sent to prison for this one. It's a bit treasonous and all.

I hope the people responsible get rightly sent to prison for this one. It's a bit treasonous and all.
You're joking, surely?

You're joking, surely?
Pretty sure that it's quite b7 to actually create your own currency. By the law.

Pretty sure that it's quite b7 to actually create your own currency. By the law.
Perhaps if you attempt to compete with legal tender on a national scale, but I'm pretty sure currency that is only valid within the clear boundaries of a community is a-OK. As I said, there's plenty of schemes up and down the country already doing this.

Perhaps if you attempt to compete with legal tender, but I'm pretty sure currency that is only valid within the clear boundaries of a community is a-OK.
In which case they'd have to separate from the UK, which is Extremely Not Allowed.

In which case they'd have to separate from the UK, which is Extremely Not Allowed.
Again, I'm pretty sure you're off the mark on this. If it were the case, every voucher system, such as in place of lunch moeny at schools, would be highly illegal.

Before we run in circles, can we perhaps find some online documentation regarding this?

It's perfectly legal under UK law: (from wikipedia)
Coins and banknotes do not need to be "legal tender" in order to be used as money to buy and perform other transactions for which money is intended. For example, British banknotes issued by various institutions circulate in the United Kingdom without being legal tender in all the jurisdictions of the United Kingdom.

Rightio, that's me wrong, then. Sorry about whining so.

In Hong Kong three banks create the currency here: HSBC, Standard Chartered and Bank of China. There's no government treasury here that does the minting and printing.
Each has different pictures on them, but same size and colouring for each denomination. All banks accept any of the three.

Over In Macau, it uses a different currency to Hong Kong. They accept HK currency everywhere there (same exchange rate) but the reverse isn't true. Last time I did notice though that everything I bought I was always given change in Macau Pataca and not HK$ (which was the case the time before). As a result I ended up with a hundred Pataca in small denominations which I can't use here and it's not worth the bother going to exchange them (it's maybe $10US).
I assume this was a new tourism directive to ensure people spent all their money before leaving (and I did buy some crap at the ferry pier just to rid myself of some of their funny money) or that they'll feel obliged to return just to use the dough.
cunning sods those Macanese.

there isn't enough gold in the world to return all currencies to gold.

Yes there is, if you revalue gold vs property, goods & services.

Yes there is, if you revalue gold vs property, goods & services.
... aye, the Gold Standard was such a superb way to regulate the world's economy in the 1920s and 1930s and didn't just lead to some countries being at a staggering advantage whilst others suffered overly high interest rates making investment even harder because their governments wanted to keep to the Gold Standard going rates instead of allowing even moderate inflation, aye?

Three roosters per ten-inch diagonal measurement. Thus, a new 50-inch HDTV is fifteen roosters, and that 60-inch plasma screen is gonna cost you eighteen roosters. HD service costs another two hens per month, or three dozen eggs. Minimum. :D

The price of an increase of TV diameter tends to be a little more on the exponential side rather than a linear progression (whether by needing costly miniaturised compenents for small televisions or large, difficult to build components for the larger televisions). I'd say 15 roosters (or 3 hens) for the 50" and 19-20 (or 3 hens, 4 roosters to 4 hens) for the 60" :p.

I support their (stated) goal of localizing their economy, but I do fear that it could be abused much more easily than sticking to the national currency. For instance, some companies in the U.S. used to pay people in 'company coupons' which were redeemable only at the 'company store'. The coupons typically had a 1:1 ratio to dollars, but the prices at the company stores were inflated higher than nearby stores that didn't take the coupons, thus meaning the employees didn't have as much purchasing power at they should have.

I support their (stated) goal of localizing their economy, but I do fear that it could be abused much more easily than sticking to the national currency. For instance, some companies in the U.S. used to pay people in 'company coupons' which were redeemable only at the 'company store'. The coupons typically had a 1:1 ratio to dollars, but the prices at the company stores were inflated higher than nearby stores that didn't take the coupons, thus meaning the employees didn't have as much purchasing power at they should have.When did that happen? Just curious. Technically since the company pays after the labour is provided they are in debt to the employee, and as such the employee can refuse payment in all except legal tender (only GBP in the UK). Though there would be problem of dragging that through the courts without proper pay for the employee though.

Pretty sure that it's quite b7 to actually create your own currency. By the law.

In the US & Canada you can create your own currency. I am sure there are restrictions on such but it can be done. UK I am not sure.

I support their (stated) goal of localizing their economy, but I do fear that it could be abused much more easily than sticking to the national currency. For instance, some companies in the U.S. used to pay people in 'company coupons' which were redeemable only at the 'company store'. The coupons typically had a 1:1 ratio to dollars, but the prices at the company stores were inflated higher than nearby stores that didn't take the coupons, thus meaning the employees didn't have as much purchasing power at they should have.


Slightly different situation here don't you think? The coupon system that I am thinking of and I believe you are speaking of was a sort of slavery. Everything one had was tied and controlled by the "company".

Fuck no. It's just tax evasion.

Fuck no. It's just tax evasion.

shhhh.......:cool:

It's not currency. It's coupons.

In that case you'll probably just need a good scanner and a laserprinter to totally flood the town economy with counterfeit coupons.

I be thinking that the town just wants attention.

Creating a new currency would just be a total waste of time and cause a lot of administrative problems.

It's not currency. It's coupons.

... remember citizens, tuesdays are double coupons days! :p

I have some family there, I wonder what they make of all this.

Do these coupons have the Queen on them? If not, any person who uses them is committing TREASON and should be locked up in the Tower to pleasure Her Majesty. Wait, did I get that last bit wrong?

I support their (stated) goal of localizing their economy, but I do fear that it could be abused much more easily than sticking to the national currency. For instance, some companies in the U.S. used to pay people in 'company coupons' which were redeemable only at the 'company store'. The coupons typically had a 1:1 ratio to dollars, but the prices at the company stores were inflated higher than nearby stores that didn't take the coupons, thus meaning the employees didn't have as much purchasing power at they should have.

Particularly proud moment in my family's history was when my great-great grandfather opened his own store in a company town, and squashed the company store by first introducing dollars into the community by buying up locally produced goods, and once the dollars were had begun circulating, folks bought non-local stuff at his store. The store made a killing all the way up to World War II.

When did that happen? Just curious. Technically since the company pays after the labour is provided they are in debt to the employee, and as such the employee can refuse payment in all except legal tender (only GBP in the UK). Though there would be problem of dragging that through the courts without proper pay for the employee though.

Per this not-stunningly-well-written Wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_system), the company-store system was more common in the 18th and 19th centuries, although "Sixteen Tons" ("I owe my soul to the company store") was a hit in the mid-20th century, so presumably it took some time to die out.

It's easier to get away with paying your employees in scrip if it's hard for them to find other work, such as when your company is geographically isolated or when all companies in an area are doing the same thing. In the US, I believe one of the earlier causes of the mining unions was to outlaw payment in scrip.

Do these coupons have the Queen on them? If not, any person who uses them is committing TREASON and should be locked up in the Tower to pleasure Her Majesty. Wait, did I get that last bit wrong?

Not if you have kinky fantasies involving the Queen of the United Kingdom.

I'm pretty sure this would be entirely legal in the UK or at least in Scotland. The Bank of Scotland (not part of the government) issues its own banknotes that are backed by itself and not the Bank of England.

So I'm sure they could issue their own currency, but I'm pretty sure it would have to be redeemable on demand, and maybe even pegged to something of value. I suppose there will probably have to be some Financial Services Authority involvement so that the issuer has enough reserves to back the currency.

Off the top of my head RBS, Clydesdale, Ulster Bank, Northern Bank, Bank of Ireland, and First Trust all issue sterling notes in addition to the Bank of England.

http://www.libertydollar.org/

Been done in America, they actually have gold and silver backing it up. It's a good idea, far fetched though. Could even be a scam, but still it's a convincing idea:p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_currency

It's not really that bizarre a thing. The Michigan Green Party in 2006 wanted to introduce a statewide complementary currency to try to keep production at home and such. I don't have the necessary background in economics to know if that's a good thing or not, but I was intrigued by it. Of course, they wanted to do a number of not-quite-legal things like put a tariff on non-Michigan goods (they prettied up the language a bit but that's what they advocated) and recall Michigan troops from Iraq, so I don't even know what legal ground a state would stand on for something like that.

I posted this thread long ago!

Ehhh... what's the big deal.

Slightly different situation here don't you think? The coupon system that I am thinking of and I believe you are speaking of was a sort of slavery. Everything one had was tied and controlled by the "company".
More feudalism than slavery. The workers weren't owned or forced through the indignities of slave life, they were tied to the land and their employer through financial obligations.

I don;t really see what the advantage in this case is. If it simply converts at 1:1 with £, then why bother converting your money in the first place? Sure, it means people with the new money can only buy local, but wouldn't it be easier to spend the (real)money required to print the (local)money on a "Buy Local" advertising campaign or subsidizing small business loans?

I don;t really see what the advantage in this case is. If it simply converts at 1:1 with £, then why bother converting your money in the first place? Sure, it means people with the new money can only buy local, but wouldn't it be easier to spend the (real)money required to print the (local)money on a "Buy Local" advertising campaign or subsidizing small business loans?

If the currency you're converting to is backed by gold or silver, then it would be worthwhile because you're technically buying gold or silver.

http://www.libertydollar.org/

Been done in America, they actually have gold and silver backing it up. It's a good idea, far fetched though. Could even be a scam, but still it's a convincing idea:p

It convinced the FBI to raid their warehouse and take all their silver, though that probably wasn't the "convincing" they were looking for.

Didn't Stroud and/or Oust have their own currencies until like 96 or so?

How come no one has mentioned the Canadian Tire Money...


This is a pretty decent idea, in many cases. Although it's a fallacy that "imports are evil", stimulation of local production, when done not at the expense of export-oriented industries, is a good thing. Big cities like NYC don't have underused labor issue, but small towns often do.

How come no one has mentioned the Canadian Tire Money...

Because most people never heard from it? I certainly haven't.

Because most people never heard from it? I certainly haven't.

I'd heard of it (I even have some somewhere) but I don't really think of it as a "local currency", I think of it more as gift certificates.

Ooh, gift certificates. I like those. Still have a bunch around, I really should do something with them.

I'd heard of it (I even have some somewhere) but I don't really think of it as a "local currency", I think of it more as gift certificates.
The point of gift certificates is a ritual sacrifice - exchange of money for something that's used for the same purpose, but is less valuable and not traded. CTM doesn't expire and is used in trade, so it's more like an example of partially-functional alternate money, backed by Canadian Tire, being actually used mainstream.


By the way, between fiat currency, which is devalued by printing, and gold-backed currency, which doesn't work since FBI will just steal the gold again [plus, even if it worked, has the whole expense of buying and guarding the gold], there's another alternative.

Currency can much better be backed by oil. For instance, one Oil Backed Barrel (B crossed by a |) is redeemable for one barrel of oil, and 1/100 of |B is OB Dollar, redeemable for one liter* of any gasoline or diesel fuel at any member pump.

Just think of it. Oil is stored underground, so it can't be stolen by FBI like the silver backing the Liberty Dollar. Oil is inconvenient to carry, so there's much less issue of running out of gold due to mass-redemption of OBB/OBD. Oil is constantly appreciating, and it's crucial in economic growth, so there's little need for revaluation, and the currency can keep much more stable, while staying backed. Finally, unlike gold or silver, petroleum fuels are actual immediately useful, necessary products, and with OB

Fantastic? Let's see, USD is quite likely to collapse, should it be shaken well, through a chain reaction caused by exchange of massive worldwide USD reserves for more stable currencies. Euro isn't reliable either, seeing how tied EU is to US.
OPEC, however, is independent, and, in any case, it's OPEC which dictates which currency is to be the world standard: it's the currency oil is sold for.
But, of course, the answer is, in the end, yes: it is fantastic. OPEC won't even need to back its currency with oil to have it progress to the world standard, should they decide to issue one.



[ * Liter, because it's what the entire world uses, and let's face it, US isn't going to have a say about the next world currency. ]

It convinced the FBI to raid their warehouse and take all their silver, though that probably wasn't the "convincing" they were looking for.

Yeah that's what I mean, seems too convenient that they got raided.

"Oh yeah give us your dollars to buy into this, but we can't redeem it now because we were pillaged:("

I'd like it to be known that I am going to create my own currency! Its value will increase by a small margin for every post put up on any forum on the internet and will decrease with the loss of those posts!

They have printed their own currency in my town in New York State its called Ithaca Hours. This is how it works: http://www.ithacahours.com/intro.html


I live in a very interesting town.