NationStates Jolt Archive

Video games turn kids into killers? Not so, says new book
Just because you play as a criminal doesn't mean you'll become one.

By Ben Silverman
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While their digital pastime is often credited with eroding the state of contemporary literature, gamers have found an unlikely ally within the pages of a new book.

Penned by Harvard Med School researchers Lawrence Kutner and Cheryl Olsen, "Grand Theft Childhood: The Surprising Truth About Violent Video Games and What Parents Can Do" refutes common conceptions about the causal relationship between violent video games and violent behavior.

In other words, playing a few hours of GTA IV will not result in your kid stealing a car, careening through traffic and gunning down civilians.

"What I hope people realize is that there is no data to support the simple-minded concerns that video games cause violence," Kutner told Reuters News Service in an interview.

On another note as I'll never forgo a shot at Hillary...Is Hillary now simple-minded according to this fine Harvard man?

In other news, water has been observed falling from the sky in many places across the globe. Experts are calling this phenomenon 'rain'.

In other words, playing a few hours of GTA IV will not result in your kid stealing a car, careening through traffic and gunning down civilians.

What if it exceeds that Kutner-Olsen...?
What if it exceeds that?!

In other news, water has been observed falling from the sky in many places across the globe. Experts are calling this phenomenon 'rain'.

You and I both knew this. Others?

So it took a Harvard man to write a book to explain what everyone has been saying all along.

Well, that's refreshing.

What if it exceeds that Kutner-Olsen...?
What if it exceeds that?!

are you actually serious?

are you actually serious?

Are you?

Playing GTA turns you into a carjacking rapist gangster like playing KOTOR turns you into a Sith Lord.

Are you?

How to respond to this....hmm

Playing GTA turns you into a carjacking rapist gangster like playing KOTOR turns you into a Sith Lord.

Are you trying to tell me that all those hours I have spent on games will not turn me into a wizard?

Why would people play games then?

there are some articles by harvard researches saying the same thing...
it's just counterintuitive, so people think otherwise...

How to respond to this....hmm
Very. Very. Carefully.
Click Stand;13704748']Are you trying to tell me that all those hours I have spent on games will not turn me into a wizard?

Why would people play games then?

To know the weakness of the wizard.
To kill him when he comes.

Playing GTA turns you into a carjacking rapist gangster like playing KOTOR turns you into a Sith Lord.
*looks at red lightsaber* Erm... This isn't mine.

But in response to the OP, this isn't new. SENSIBLE people have known this for a loooong time. It's the crackpots and scaremongerers that are still shouting "ZOMG!!1!1! TEH EBIL VIDEO GAMEZ IS CORRUPTING OUR KIDZ!1!!!" People like Hillary Clinton. And Jack Thompson. Two fine examples of the commen human genetic disorder "Stupidity'.

Click Stand;13704725']So it took a Harvard man to write a book to explain what everyone has been saying all along.

Well, that's refreshing.

To summarize my opinion on the matter of 'intellectuals' and 'great writers': They write things in a convoluted manner to tell us something we already know.

Video games turn kids into killers? Not so, says new book
Just because you play as a criminal doesn't mean you'll become one.

By Ben Silverman
ADVERTISEMENT

While their digital pastime is often credited with eroding the state of contemporary literature, gamers have found an unlikely ally within the pages of a new book.

Penned by Harvard Med School researchers Lawrence Kutner and Cheryl Olsen, "Grand Theft Childhood: The Surprising Truth About Violent Video Games and What Parents Can Do" refutes common conceptions about the causal relationship between violent video games and violent behavior.

In other words, playing a few hours of GTA IV will not result in your kid stealing a car, careening through traffic and gunning down civilians.

"What I hope people realize is that there is no data to support the simple-minded concerns that video games cause violence," Kutner told Reuters News Service in an interview.

On another note as I'll never forgo a shot at Hillary...Is Hillary now simple-minded according to this fine Harvard man?


I not only object to the idea that video games somehow encourage people to become criminals or otherwise stains on society, I also object that they're degrading contemporary literature. I'm quite the game and I also read quite a hell of a lot. There's no reason that the two should be exclusive of each other.

I not only object to the idea that video games somehow encourage people to become criminals or otherwise stains on society, I also object that they're degrading contemporary literature. I'm quite the game and I also read quite a hell of a lot. There's no reason that the two should be exclusive of each other.

Let's not even mention how hard it is to degrade contemporary literature. ;)

Let's not even mention how hard it is to degrade contemporary literature. ;)

Indeed. Literature takes care of itself. There are plenty of great writers out there. I highly recommend Stephen Baxter for instance.

Indeed. Literature takes care of itself. There are plenty of great writers out there. I highly recommend Stephen Baxter for instance.

Hmph.. turning my intentionally disparaging compliment based on my unfounded opinion on contemporary literature into a more realistic and productive statement on the matter.

You would do that Kyronea. You would.

Hmph.. turning my intentionally disparaging compliment based on my unfounded opinion on contemporary literature into a more realistic and productive statement on the matter.

You would do that Kyronea. You would.
Tis what I do, Bann-ed. Tis what I do.

If someone tries to take away my violent video games, I'm gonna chop em to pieces with my machete! :mad:

In other news, water has been observed falling from the sky in many places across the globe. Experts are calling this phenomenon 'rain'.

:eek:

WATER?! FROM THE SKY!? RAPTURE!!!!!

*starts looting and praying at the same time*

:eek:

WATER?! FROM THE SKY!? RAPTURE!!!!!

*starts looting and praying at the same time*

I thought we were waiting for the fire in the sky?

Is that...smoke...on the water?!?! *loots New Manvir and prays*

If someone tries to take away my violent video games, I'm gonna chop em to pieces with my machete! :mad:

I use a crowbar.

In other news, water has been observed falling from the sky in many places across the globe. Experts are calling this phenomenon 'rain'.

Bullshit. Everybody knows water is heavier than air. How the hell would it get up there in the first place?
Next thing you know people will be claiming that rock came from space.

Video games turn kids into killers? Not so, says new book
Just because you play as a criminal doesn't mean you'll become one.

So ... why can't you buy a game which simulates the sexual assault of children ...?

EDIT: Hey Liuzzo, getting on to 2,000 posts: you haven't found the "wrap quotes around selected" button yet, for stuff you didn't write?

I not only object to the idea that video games somehow encourage people to become criminals or otherwise stains on society, I also object that they're degrading contemporary literature. I'm quite the game and I also read quite a hell of a lot. There's no reason that the two should be exclusive of each other.

But video-games make kids watch less TV. How should they then become the same mindless consumers their parent's generation is?

I see the seeds of rebellion!

So ... why can't you buy a game which simulates the sexual assault of children ...?

You can.
...In Japan.

Rape seems to be a pretty popular crime in the real world.

So ... why is it OK to murder innocents in-game, but raping people is out ?

You can.
...In Japan.

The Japanese have a very healthy attitude towards recreational rape. :p

The Japanese have a very healthy attitude towards recreational rape. :p

Hey, there's nothing wrong with a little tentacle-on-schoolgirl lovin'. Besides, it says on the box that ALL PERSONS PORTRAYED IN THIS GAME ARE 18 OR OVER, so that makes it alright.
...Right?

Hey, there's nothing wrong with a little tentacle-on-schoolgirl lovin'. Besides, it says on the box that ALL PERSONS PORTRAYED IN THIS GAME ARE 18 OR OVER, so that makes it alright.
...Right?

It must be a nightmare over there. You pick up this pretty giggling schoolgirl, get her back to your pad ... then she tells you she's actually thirty-two!

It must be a nightmare over there. You pick up this pretty giggling schoolgirl, get her back to your pad ... then she tells you she's actually thirty-two!

My long-held theory is that Japanese people dont actually age in the same way as other people. I think they've got a system set up where they go in on their 18th, 40th and 80th birthday for age treatments, which explains why everybody in Japan appears to be 18, 40 or 80.

I'm actually serious about this, though I can't resist a joke.

Is this "murder is OK, but sex isn't" thing just lifted from US film culture, or do both reflect some fact of modern culture?

Or even, some fact of life? Sex is a reality for far more people than killing people is.

Is it only OK to fantasize about something you KNOW you will not voluntarily do?

I use a crowbar.

As a student of physics, I also use a crowbar.

Playing GTA turns you into a carjacking rapist gangster like playing KOTOR turns you into a Sith Lord.

cool then i'am a world war two and vietnam war Veteran


as for the whole idea of games turning people into something, it be years before someone find away of doing it right

I have always believed this. I was thinking about it the other day as I took my car onto the pavement and mowed down some pedestrians for points. Apparently you get more points for running over grannies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bsOKH3_DNo

edit:
Gaming used to increase intelligence and school success, though not the modern arcade console games...

Remember reading a news bit about a study of the former a decade ago which said that gaming increases school success, programming even more, but people who gamed & programmed got most out of the deal.

The latter is self-observation made on the quality and challenge of most of the mainstream games released today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bsOKH3_DNo

hey lol forgot about that

...and Tetris has made me really good at packing suitcases. Nope

But video-games make kids watch less TV. How should they then become the same mindless consumers their parent's generation is?

I see the seeds of rebellion!

Not if video game advertising has anything to say about it! Sleep soundly in your bed, good citizen, knowing that modern civilisation is safe for the next generation.

As a student of physics, I also use a crowbar.

As a student of medicine, I see your crowbar and raise you a gun full of needles. :p

Click Stand;13704748']Are you trying to tell me that all those hours I have spent on games will not turn me into a wizard?

Why would people play games then?

All those hours in EverQuest never did turn me into a shadow knight. I only dream of a day when I can focus my rage and hatred into a devastating death touch.

I use a crowbar.

You can't chop properly with a crowbar.

If the premise is true that boys playing video games every possible hour they can, day after day, has no impact on their individual character development, then schools like Chavagnes International College (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080520/lf_nm/france_boardingschool_dc;_ylt=AtcanO_loLiCzitMjTwSmp07Xs8F), a Catholic boarding school for boys, doesn't character develop individual boys into Catholics either...

I think I'll wait for more conclusive evidence that immersing a child in an environment for their developmental years doesn't really impact their character development before I dismiss the notion entirely thank you very much.

So ... why can't you buy a game which simulates the sexual assault of children ...?

EDIT: Hey Liuzzo, getting on to 2,000 posts: you haven't found the "wrap quotes around selected" button yet, for stuff you didn't write?

I'm not big on the technical aspects of the forum as long as my point gets across. I'd accept your assistance in the form of a TG if you would please? Anyone who can teach me this trick, and also how to take multiple quotes apart to comment on would be great. Thank you to whoever helps.

Edit: What would be the objective of a game to molest children? I would allow people to buy it and then monitor them. The only people I would disallow from buying the game would be already convicted sex offenders.

But video-games make kids watch less TV. How should they then become the same mindless consumers their parent's generation is?

I see the seeds of rebellion!

Ah ha. Nevermind on the text wrapping thing. I found it when looking through my icons and I can surely operate it on my own. Thanks anyway.

Video games don't always lead to violence, but can not really cause real life violence. Unless the kid is insane and can't think, they should be fine.

If the premise is true that boys playing video games every possible hour they can, day after day, has no impact on their individual character development, then schools like Chavagnes International College (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080520/lf_nm/france_boardingschool_dc;_ylt=AtcanO_loLiCzitMjTwSmp07Xs8F), a Catholic boarding school for boys, doesn't character develop individual boys into Catholics either...

I think I'll wait for more conclusive evidence that immersing a child in an environment for their developmental years doesn't really impact their character development before I dismiss the notion entirely thank you very much.

Don't you think parents should play a role in choosing their children's games? Can they then teach them the difference between reality and virtual reality? Video games in the US have ratings scales people should adhere to. The problem is parents want to forsake their job.

cool then i'am a world war two and vietnam war Veteran

Pfff, you should be the leader of Poland, striking fear into Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union :p.

*Plays some more Hearts of Iron (2)*

If the premise is true that boys playing video games every possible hour they can, day after day, has no impact on their individual character development, then schools like Chavagnes International College (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080520/lf_nm/france_boardingschool_dc;_ylt=AtcanO_loLiCzitMjTwSmp07Xs8F), a Catholic boarding school for boys, doesn't character develop individual boys into Catholics either...

I think I'll wait for more conclusive evidence that immersing a child in an environment for their developmental years doesn't really impact their character development before I dismiss the notion entirely thank you very much.

The problem with that analogy is it isn't the same. A better analogy would be if a child read fantasy books which had "This is fiction and has is completely unrealistic" on the top page. Unless a child manages to anthropomorphise the character (that in itself would happen only at a young age and event then would be very difficult, given the vast difference between digital game and a physical toy).

That school is an example of the effects of a social situation (since it is presented as a truth and not as fiction it would always be far stronger).

I'm not big on the technical aspects of the forum as long as my point gets across.

Fair enough too. But breaking up a post is pretty useful :)

Edit: What would be the objective of a game to molest children?

Sexual gratification. I'm not imagining that being fun for anyone but a pedophile, just asking whether we would ban it for simulating crime ...?

I would allow people to buy it and then monitor them.

The only people I would disallow from buying the game would be already convicted sex offenders.

Would you ban convicted murderers from playing violent video games ?

Since I can guess the answer to that: how are they different ?

Playing GTA turns you into a carjacking rapist gangster like playing KOTOR turns you into a Sith Lord.
I was so disappointed this turned out not to be true.

DAMMIT! I WANTED FORCE LIGHTNING!

All those hours in EverQuest never did turn me into a shadow knight. I only dream of a day when I can focus my rage and hatred into a devastating death touch.
Oh, Jabober, how I miss thee.

Games have an effect, but the environment around them have more of an effect and the knowledge they'll gain instant stardom from the media if they go kill some people.

Also, maybe the parents should be more strict on reading the labels on games, they're there for a reason. When I see parents getting GTA games for five year olds, and then whine about how bad games are, I can't help but laugh.

Video games make you a killer in the same respect that going into a garage makes you a car.

A problem with Americans today is that in our society children are raised that it is okay to pin the responsibilities of your actions on someone or something else. I was raised in a small town, and my neighbors had my parents permission to beat me if they caught me doing something wrong. You didn't lie about what you did, in fact most times you bragged about it to your friends. You stood tall, took your punishment, and moved on.

Today's children are so medicated out for every imperceptible problem, and told that no matter what they do it's not their fault, it's because they didn't get the noise making He-man sword for Christmas that they went on a murderous rampage.

I propose a new system. Actually, it's an old system, just no one uses it anymore, so it must be a new idea.

If your kids don't listen to you, spank them. They'll notice. Pain has a way of . . . bringing about results.

When I didn't listen in school, when I was asleep in class, you know what my teacher did? She hit me in the head with a book. You can bet your ass I woke up and paid attention after that.

Teach your children the benefits of respect. I say yes sir and yes ma'am to every person I encounter. Because it's what I was taught growing up. I open doors and pull out chairs for ladies. Not because I want in their pants, but because my FATHER taught me that that is what a gentleman does.

I stand up for my rights, and I stand up for my friends and family. And I will fight if necessary. And if parents would spend more time in their children's lives instead of letting their kids be raised by day care and television, maybe we wouldn't have so many fucked up people in this world.

All those hours in EverQuest never did turn me into a shadow knight. I only dream of a day when I can focus my rage and hatred into a devastating death touch.

evercrack is awesome!

Fair enough too. But breaking up a post is pretty useful :)



Sexual gratification. I'm not imagining that being fun for anyone but a pedophile, just asking whether we would ban it for simulating crime ...?



Would you ban convicted murderers from playing violent video games ?

Since I can guess the answer to that: how are they different ?

You make a very good point here. I still wouldn't outlaw either game.

Video games make you a killer in the same respect that going into a garage makes you a car.

That sounds witty, but actually it's flawed.
A law-abiding person can become a killer. They cannot become a car.

As to your old-codgerly rant about "kids today": there's some truth in that but perhaps you could just say where you stand on banning violent video games.

Video games make you a killer in the same respect that going into a garage makes you a car.

A problem with Americans today is that in our society children are raised that it is okay to pin the responsibilities of your actions on someone or something else. I was raised in a small town, and my neighbors had my parents permission to beat me if they caught me doing something wrong. You didn't lie about what you did, in fact most times you bragged about it to your friends. You stood tall, took your punishment, and moved on.

Today's children are so medicated out for every imperceptible problem, and told that no matter what they do it's not their fault, it's because they didn't get the noise making He-man sword for Christmas that they went on a murderous rampage.

Eh, I agree....and heavily disagree. I think the real problem is parents not letting their kids face their failures. You didn't study for the test? You get a bad grade. You don't have a parent argue with the professor about it, how your "adorable little baby couldn't possibley have done something wrong." Two diffrent sides of the same coin, as I suppose they blame the proffessor for their problems. I do object to the medicated part (yes, I take medication. No, I'm not normal. As shown by my reaction to said medication (concentration) compared to the regular person (acts like crack, or gives you a splittling headache). You guessed it. ADD). And I actually think its the media attention rather than the lack of gifts that causes the promenience of school shootings.

Pfff, you should be the leader of Poland, striking fear into Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union :p.

*Plays some more Hearts of Iron (2)*

interesting :p

I recommend the book "State of Fear"

though just because there's this one bit in it that really explains the title and it only exists really to get a point across.....

But it does get the point across..... read it...

it may open your minds...... and make you question the media just a bit more....

Don't know how many of you actually read the report or saw the researchers interviewed, but one of the things they did say was this.

Teenage males who spend 15 hours or more per week on violent video games are more likely to be involved in confrontations, physical/verbal in school.

What's surprising is that teenage males who don't spend anytime at all on violent video games have the same level of incidents.

That sounds witty, but actually it's flawed.
A law-abiding person can become a killer. They cannot become a car.

As to your old-codgerly rant about "kids today": there's some truth in that but perhaps you could just say where you stand on banning violent video games.

I was not even mentioning a law abiding person becoming a car. As far as I remember, the statement I made is that video games make you a killer in the same respect a garage makes you a car.

Yes, I agree that anyone at any time is capable of becoming a killer given the right circumstances. But killing someone is a conscious choice made by someone, not induced by flashing light stimulus.

As far as my "old codgerly rant" I cannot simply state my idea without explaining as much as I can behind it. I AM a child that grew up in the video game era, and being a person in my early twenties now, I see the damage that parents of younger children cause by lack of discipline in our politically correct society.

Eh, I agree....and heavily disagree. I think the real problem is parents not letting their kids face their failures... etc

I actually don't see how you disagree, as that is pretty much the premise of what I was saying. If you do something wrong, you take the punishment or consequences for your actions. Not pinning it on video games or the fact you have blonde hair or you have some obscure disease that makes you less inclined to learn the periodic table.

I was diagnosed with ADD and ADHD. I skipped two grades and was receiving college credit by the age of twelve. I scored a 35 on my ACT, a 99 on my ASVAB, CLEPed out of Planar Trigonometry and Advanced Calculus. As of now I am twenty two years old, and I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering from OU (Oklahoma University.)

So despite "modern society" telling me that there was no way I could function in a classroom setting, I think I did rather well. Why? I contribute it to the fact my parents did not let me use "attention deficit disorders" as a crutch and still forced me to be responsible for my academic choices.

I propose a new system. Actually, it's an old system, just no one uses it anymore, so it must be a new idea.

If your kids don't listen to you, spank them. They'll notice. Pain has a way of . . . bringing about results.

If you don't listen to me should I punch you in the nose?

If you don't listen to me should I punch you in the nose?


Are you my parent?

Every analogy can be broken down, twisted, and taken to the extreme. It's just twisting facts to prove your own point. Don't insult my intelligence by being smarmy. No, I'm not saying that if someone doesn't obey you that you have the right to physically harm them. I'm saying discipline your children. Stop taking my arguments out of context.

Are you my parent?

Every analogy can be broken down, twisted, and taken to the extreme. It's just twisting facts to prove your own point. Don't insult my intelligence by being smarmy. No, I'm not saying that if someone doesn't obey you that you have the right to physically harm them.

That's exactly what you're saying, but for some reason you only apply it to children who belong to the person harming them (despite, according to you, your neighbors having permission to - again this is in your own words - beat you.).

Are you my parent?

Every analogy can be broken down, twisted, and taken to the extreme. It's just twisting facts to prove your own point. Don't insult my intelligence by being smarmy. No, I'm not saying that if someone doesn't obey you that you have the right to physically harm them. I'm saying discipline your children. Stop taking my arguments out of context.
Toxiarra's right about that. Children respond to incentives just as well as the rest of us do.

That's exactly what you're saying, but for some reason you only apply it to children who belong to the person harming them (despite, according to you, your neighbors having permission to - again this is in your own words - beat you.).


Yes. If my neighbors should happen to have chanced upon me, lets say, throwing rocks through the school windows. They would have grabbed me by the ear, spanked my ass, then taken me straight to my parents who would have done the same thing. Should I chance upon a child vandalizing something, I would detain them, call the police, and inform their parental units. Obviously in todays society, we do not have close knit communities where neighbors all know each other and are comfortable with others disciplining their children. But I would still take appropriate action.

And you do have the right to detain someone you see as committing a crime or doing something wrong as you see it, it's called a citizen's arrest. So yes, if you want to take it that far, if I am not obeying you, you could punch me in the face. But you better be damn sure whatever I was doing was illegal in the court of law. Otherwise you yourself go to jail for assault.