NationStates Jolt Archive

What is an American you ask? Well, here you go:

1. (s)he is decended from immigrants or Native Americans or is, currently, a legal immigrant;
2. By age 18 (barring cognitive deficits) (s)he reads, writes and speaks English on at least a college entrance exam level ((s)he may be fluent in other languages as well, but that is not required);
3. (s)he believes that opportunity for advancement is the result of work, not luck or government handouts;
4 (s)he believes in the rule of law and works in the legal/political system to enact/change laws that (s)he wants and/or disagrees with, but until changed, adheres to laws (s)he disagrees with;
5 (s)he believes that capatalism encourages innovation;
6. (s)he does not disparage the U.S. abroad, despite disagreements with policy, but rather works inside the U.S. to change objectionable policy;
7. (s)he believes, generally, that the freedoms to speak, publish, worship, assemble, travel, own weapons for self-defense, pursue (and possibly obtain) happiness, be safe from unreasonable search, seizure & arrest without the fear of government intrusion are "natural" rights, not given by the government, but instead protected from government infringment;
8. (s)he demands that those who disagree with a point of view accept without question the right of those they disagree with to express their point of view;
9. (s)he demands the enforcement of laws;
10. (s)he understands that hand-in-hand with freedom and rights goes the requirement to use discretion and responsibility in exercising them; and
11. (s)he accepts that racial/ethnic/religious/ancestry loyalty and devotion are subserviant to national/American loyalty & devotion.

The minute being "black\asian\Indian\rich\poor\hispanic\jewish\protestant\catholic, etc." is more important than being "American" is the minute in which the U.S. goes from melting pot to a crouton rich salad.

being an american citizen

in before "america is a continent"

Actually, an American is someone that has an American passport.

Edit: Or is eligible for one. Forgot that many of my fellow Americans don't have one.

What does it mean to be American? It means listening to most of the world bitching about how America sucks, while at the same time doing their even damnedest to move here.

Actually, an American is someone that has an American passport.

Edit: Or is eligible for one. Forgot that many of my fellow Americans don't have one.

Yeah, that.

What is an American you ask?

Nobody did.

Well, here you go:

You shouldn't have...

1. (s)he is decended from immigrants or Native Americans or is, currently, a legal immigrant;

Bullshit. I know several lawful legal residents who would bristle at the thought of being called an "american". Being an immigrant doesn't make one suddenly of any nationality. A good friend of mine is Polish. She has her green card and is a lawful permanent resident. But she is Polish, not american.

The rest of your post is crap, filled with typical nonsensical efforts to try and pigeonhole 300 million people into a list of a handful of propagandist silliness you probably got off a spam email is futile and stupid. An american (ignoring the legitimate argument that anyone from "the americas" could rightfully call him/herself an American) is a citizen of the united states of america. Nothing more, nothing less.

What is an American you ask? Well, here you go:

1. (s)he is decended from immigrants or Native Americans or is, currently, a legal immigrant;
2. By age 18 (barring cognitive deficits) (s)he reads, writes and speaks English on at least a college entrance exam level ((s)he may be fluent in other languages as well, but that is not required);
3. (s)he believes that opportunity for advancement is the result of work, not luck or government handouts;
4 (s)he believes in the rule of law and works in the legal/political system to enact/change laws that (s)he wants and/or disagrees with, but until changed, adheres to laws (s)he disagrees with;
5 (s)he believes that capatalism encourages innovation;
6. (s)he does not disparage the U.S. abroad, despite disagreements with policy, but rather works inside the U.S. to change objectionable policy;
7. (s)he believes, generally, that the freedoms to speak, publish, worship, assemble, travel, own weapons for self-defense, pursue (and possibly obtain) happiness, be safe from unreasonable search, seizure & arrest without the fear of government intrusion are "natural" rights, not given by the government, but instead protected from government infringment;
8. (s)he demands that those who disagree with a point of view accept without question the right of those they disagree with to express their point of view;
9. (s)he demands the enforcement of laws;
10. (s)he understands that hand-in-hand with freedom and rights goes the requirement to use discretion and responsibility in exercising them; and
11. (s)he accepts that racial/ethnic/religious/ancestry loyalty and devotion are subserviant to national/American loyalty & devotion.

The minute being "black\asian\Indian\rich\poor\hispanic\jewish\protestant\catholic, etc." is more important than being "American" is the minute in which the U.S. goes from melting pot to a crouton rich salad.

It seems that the underlined part of 7 invalidates point six. As a matter of fact most of this list is utter bullshit and has nothing to do with someones "Americaness" or lack thereof.

Yeah, seems a bit restrictive of free speach.

It seems that the underlined part of 7 invalidates point six. As a matter of fact most of this list is utter bullshit and has nothing to do with someones "Americaness" or lack thereof.

No, Point 6 is illustrative of the underlined part of point 10 10. (s)he understands that hand-in-hand with freedom and rights goes the requirement to use discretion and responsibility in exercising them

I think that some of your criteria isn't well thought out. The school systems in many places for example graduate people who aren't literate.

I don't know, this just seems pointless, as well as just looking for an argument. I've always thought that defining 'What makes an American' is a lot like defining 'what makes obscenity' or 'what makes art.'

I.e. I'm not sure how to define it, but I know it when I see it.

I think that some of your criteria isn't well thought out. The school systems in many places for example graduate people who aren't literate.
Your argument is well taken.

Perhaps this should be retitled "The Values, Knowledge and Understandings U.S. Citizens Should Have"

I don't know, this just seems pointless, as well as just looking for an argument. I've always thought that defining 'What makes an American' is a lot like defining 'what makes obscenity' or 'what makes art.'

I.e. I'm not sure how to define it, but I know it when I see it.

Really, I have no idea what britishness looks like.
Apparently it has something about brining the military back into the public eye.

Really, I have no idea what britishness looks like.
Apparently it has something about brining the military back into the public eye.

(mutters something about bad teeth, tea and crumpets, the Queen, and binge drinking)

The rest of your post is crap, filled with typical nonsensical efforts to try and pigeonhole 300 million people into a list of a handful of propagandist silliness you probably got off a spam email is futile and stupid. An american (ignoring the legitimate argument that anyone from "the americas" could rightfully call him/herself an American) is a citizen of the united states of america. Nothing more, nothing less.

Agreed. A citizen of the United States could be anything: communist, genius, moron, Muslim, black, white, brown, conservative, libertarian, etc. We just have the freedoms to be any of these things and more. That is what makes us so exceptional.

ah so America is actually some sort of cave sociaty where you don't get counted as a citizen if you can't conform to society's standards, thats nice its just too bad its not 1810

also your little political ideals stuck in gave me an enormous superiority feeling knowing the land of the "free" was now only if by "free" it meant free to think the correct way :p

from melting pot to a crouton rich salad.

give up with this absurd idea that the rest of the world doesn't have the same culutral mix its incredibly ignorant is all I really have to say on the matter

That is what makes us so exceptional.

ah the age old belief that your somehow special because your American

(mutters something about bad teeth, tea and crumpets, the Queen, and binge drinking)

Don't forget the soccer hooligans.

As for what 'American' looks like, having grown up down in the South, my idea of 'what American looks like' is probably different from someone who grew up in Manhattan, or Seattle.

Some one who lives in the Americas and has a citizenship to an American country seems to be a good enough explanation.

Don't forget the soccer hooligans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Det2r5isAM0&feature=related :D

Some one who lives in the Americas and has a citizenship to an American country seems to be a good enough explanation.

I always thought it was more an identification issue

(mutters something about bad teeth, tea and crumpets, the Queen, and binge drinking)

Dosen't have much to do with cultural values though does it?

(also crumpet rocks)

Meh. That list excludes pretty much everyone except its author.

What is an American you ask? Well, here you go:

1. (s)he is decended from immigrants or Native Americans or is, currently, a legal immigrant;
2. By age 18 (barring cognitive deficits) (s)he reads, writes and speaks English on at least a college entrance exam level ((s)he may be fluent in other languages as well, but that is not required);
3. (s)he believes that opportunity for advancement is the result of work, not luck or government handouts;
4 (s)he believes in the rule of law and works in the legal/political system to enact/change laws that (s)he wants and/or disagrees with, but until changed, adheres to laws (s)he disagrees with;
5 (s)he believes that capatalism encourages innovation;
6. (s)he does not disparage the U.S. abroad, despite disagreements with policy, but rather works inside the U.S. to change objectionable policy;
7. (s)he believes, generally, that the freedoms to speak, publish, worship, assemble, travel, own weapons for self-defense, pursue (and possibly obtain) happiness, be safe from unreasonable search, seizure & arrest without the fear of government intrusion are "natural" rights, not given by the government, but instead protected from government infringment;
8. (s)he demands that those who disagree with a point of view accept without question the right of those they disagree with to express their point of view;
9. (s)he demands the enforcement of laws;
10. (s)he understands that hand-in-hand with freedom and rights goes the requirement to use discretion and responsibility in exercising them; and
11. (s)he accepts that racial/ethnic/religious/ancestry loyalty and devotion are subserviant to national/American loyalty & devotion.

The minute being "black\asian\Indian\rich\poor\hispanic\jewish\protestant\catholic, etc." is more important than being "American" is the minute in which the U.S. goes from melting pot to a crouton rich salad.


wow that is made of fail.

not one of your points is true. not even the first one since there are plenty of legal immigrants who are not americans.

ah the age old belief that your somehow special because your American

Fortunately the facts back up this belief. It is true that success breeds envy and there are many Americans who feel that envy and believe that they should apologize. I do not.

I believe that it is no crime to be proud to be an American and to acknowledge our accomplishments and the beliefs that we were founded on. We make mistakes but our founding principles, and the success of those principles, seems to bring in a quite diverse selection of immigrants. I would say that when people vote with their feet they come here and that says something.

Fortunately the facts back up this belief. It is true that success breeds envy and there are many Americans who feel that envy and believe that they should apologize. I do not.

I believe that it is no crime to be proud to be an American and to acknowledge our accomplishments and the beliefs that we were founded on. We make mistakes but our founding principles, and the success of those principles, seems to bring in a quite diverse selection of immigrants. I would say that when people vote with their feet they come here and that says something.

I beg your pardon? How does the fact that you are born one side of an imaginary line / ocean make you special?

3. (s)he believes that opportunity for advancement is the result of work, not luck or government handouts;

Luck has been part of my own "advancement".. so I don't know what to make of this.

Luck has been part of my own "advancement".. so I don't know what to make of this.

Excludes all gamblers that.

I beg your pardon? How does the fact that you are born one side of an imaginary line / ocean make you special?

Geography has nothing to do with it although we have some pretty spectacular and diverse terrain. It is the fact of our success in most areas of human endeavor.

As the much maligned Maggie Thatcher said: "Europe will never be like America. Europe is a product of history. America is a product of philosophy."

I would say the millions who have come to our shores and crossed our borders are proof of the belief in that philosophy. Liberty and individual merit.

North or South American, or both?

Geography has nothing to do with it although we have some pretty spectacular and diverse terrain. It is the fact of our success in most areas of human endeavor.

As the much maligned Maggie Thatcher said: "Europe will never be like America. Europe is a product of history. America is a product of philosophy."

I would say the millions who have come to our shores and crossed our borders are proof of the belief in that philosophy. Liberty and individual merit.

And yet none of that explains why you are special just for having been born there.

And yet none of that explains why you are special just for having been born there.

You don't have to born here. You just have to be a citizen. It confers upon you the concept of individual merit. The fact that you can climb as high as you wish if you dedicate yourself to your goal. Even if you don't aim high you can be amongst the richest group of "poor" people in the world.

I know the concept of individual merit and individual rights are somewhat alien on this forum but they exist in the US and that makes us exceptional. I also forgot that it isn't in fashion 'round these here parts to be proud to be an American but oh well, I don't change my beliefs to fit in.

Do you begrudge other nationalities for having pride in there nation's character and accomplishments?

You don't have to born here. You just have to be a citizen. It confers upon you the concept of individual merit.

So if I become an American citizen I'll get some kind of booklet explaining this to me? Because right now I don't understand individual merit, I can only think in primitive general terms like "America = good".

The fact that you can climb as high as you wish if you dedicate yourself to your goal.

Oh, that's fantastic. I've always wanted to be a baseball player. When I was a European, the fact I only started playing when I was 20 and have very weak arms would have held me back. When I become a citizen, these obstacles will fall down if I apply myself.

North or South American, or both?

American as in a denizen of the United Sates of America.

[QUOTE=Wowmaui;13703694]What is an American you ask? Well, here you go:

1. (s)he is decended from immigrants or Native Americans or is, currently, a legal immigrant;

As the descendant of at least one illegal immigrant, I take issue with your maligning of my heritage. And by the way, I'm not Mexican; I'm Irish. Do you really think your ancestors would have been dissuaded from immigrating by some petty xenophobic law? Do you think they should have been? Do you really think you're better than illegal immigrants? An unjust law erodes respect for the rule of law, and one has no moral obligation to follow it. Perhaps you would be deluded enough to call me unamerican for expressing such an opinion, but I doubt you'd have the guts to say it to my face. I spent more than two years of my life in Iraq because my country asked me to, and I took a bullet from an al Qaeda terrorist for my country. I am an American, and you are the plague that's destroying this nation. What really bothers me is that you don't express a single original thought. Why don't you go read an Ann Coulter column and keep your retarded, dogmatic opinions to yourself, you sheep.

Do you begrudge other nationalities for having pride in there nation's character and accomplishments?
If they claim that said accomplishments, with which they had nothing to do, somehow make them better, I take issue with that as well.

Being American means being of the ruling class of the world

So if I become an American citizen I'll get some kind of booklet explaining this to me? Because right now I don't understand individual merit, I can only think in primitive general terms like "America = good".


noooo they give it out when you attend citizenship classes. its a pamphlet titled "bullshit we want you to believe about being an american". it has a picture of sean hannity on the front.


Oh, that's fantastic. I've always wanted to be a baseball player. When I was a European, the fact I only started playing when I was 20 and have very weak arms would have held me back. When I become a citizen, these obstacles will fall down if I apply myself.


hell yeah!

and next month im getting a pretty pink pony for my birthday.

but only because of merit.

So if I become an American citizen I'll get some kind of booklet explaining this to me? Because right now I don't understand individual merit, I can only think in primitive general terms like "America = good".

I would think that would be apparent considering that you chose to immigrate here. Why the US and not France or Russia?

Oh, that's fantastic. I've always wanted to be a baseball player. When I was a European, the fact I only started playing when I was 20 and have very weak arms would have held me back. When I become a citizen, these obstacles will fall down if I apply myself.

In the US you have to not only have the desire but the tools to do so. Education, drive, and hard work is what you supply. Your physical limitations are your own. Considering that you ALWAYS wished to be a baseball player, why did you start so late? Perhaps some physical exertion might have assisted you in attaining your dream. All that aside, perhaps you could get into sports medicine in order to be a part of the past time you love so much.

It would appear you were correct when you said you don't understand individual merit.

Being American means being of the ruling class of the world

Ummmm.... yah, you go on believing that then.

Being an American is having the ability to screw up, then get mad and throw your military around the world. And then blame it on someone else.

I just have a green card. I was FORCED to immigrate here (parents)-so by choice I'd be back in Canada.

If they claim that said accomplishments, with which they had nothing to do, somehow make them better, I take issue with that as well.

Are you saying I don't do my part to make my country better? I would say I have built quite a nice life for myself all by myself. Not to mention the time I devote to my community. But hey, act like you know me and take issue with my imaginary failings if you wish.

Simple...American citizenship. Anyone that has American citizenship is American, no matter where your ancestors are from.

I would think that would be apparent considering that you chose to immigrate here. Why the US and not France or Russia?

Because they don't have the same kind of career opportunities, not because of some lack of appreciation for individual merit.


In the US you have to not only have the desire but the tools to do so. Education, drive, and hard work is what you supply. Your physical limitations are your own. Considering that you ALWAYS wished to be a baseball player, why did you start so late? Perhaps some physical exertion might have assisted you in attaining your dream. All that aside, perhaps you could get into sports medicine in order to be a part of the past time you love so much.

It would appear you were correct when you said you don't understand individual merit.

I hate to hold a guy to what he said and everything but that's not the same as "The fact that you can climb as high as you wish if you dedicate yourself to your goal". Maybe you should have said "The fact that you can climb as high as you wish if you dedicate yourself to your goal (and have had luck both during your life and through accident of birth)". But maybe that's not as romantic because it's also true in Europe and Australia and lots of other places.

It means to be born in America. The USA isn't both continents you know :D

Are you saying I don't do my part to make my country better? I would say I have built quite a nice life for myself all by myself. Not to mention the time I devote to my community. But hey, act like you know me and take issue with my imaginary failings if you wish.

Look, it really is simple. When you have contributed to those things that make America great, like written the ideals it is founded on and all that other bullshit you've exposed earlier, then you can be as proud as you like. Until then please spare us you waving other people's cocks at us, mkay?

Really, I have no idea what britishness looks like.
Apparently it has something about brining the military back into the public eye.

Given that these men endanger their lives daily in ther service of your country, and thus, you, why not celebrate them when they return home?

Given that these men endanger their lives daily in ther service of your country, and thus, you, why not celebrate them when they return home?
Because we might oppose what they do and what they stand for?

This from the Fourteenth Amendment:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

</thread>

Are you saying I don't do my part to make my country better? I would say I have built quite a nice life for myself all by myself. Not to mention the time I devote to my community. But hey, act like you know me and take issue with my imaginary failings if you wish.

You weren't the one to make the U.S. You weren't the one to write the Bill of Rights. You weren't the one to die in the war for independence. The achievements that led to the creation of this nation are not yours. That you believe they are demonstrates that you do not understand the idea of individual merit. Here's a hint: Merit refers to what you do, not where you are.

It means to be born in America. The USA isn't both continents you know :D

Sometimes... people are not so sure.

Because they don't have the same kind of career opportunities, not because of some lack of appreciation for individual merit.

So you have the ability to do more with your life in the US? Why does the US have more opportunity? Because the individual can gain more through individual merit and hard work.

I hate to hold a guy to what he said and everything but that's not the same as "The fact that you can climb as high as you wish if you dedicate yourself to your goal". Maybe you should have said "The fact that you can climb as high as you wish if you dedicate yourself to your goal (and have had luck both during your life and through accident of birth)". But maybe that's not as romantic because it's also true in Europe and Australia and lots of other places.

Nope. Not going to change it. I meant what I said. If you look at the majority of the richest and most successful people in the US you will see they are self made and who didn't win life's lottery or were born into a rich family. They become rich and achieve their goals through hard work, education, and sacrifice.

I know it is quite the rage to believe that the US is an economic powerhouse due to evil corporate/military conspiracies but our wealth is generated through market innovations and an excellent work ethic. Like it or not individual liberty generates wealth.

American as in a denizen of the United Sates of America.

I know people within the USA like to think so, but what you think is not what we think. An American is an inhabitant of the Americas.

It means to be born in America. The USA isn't both continents you know :D

since the Monroe doctrine it is. we just don't give the rest citizenship.

I know people within the USA like to think so, but what you think is not what we think. An American is an inhabitant of the Americas.

Who is "we?" The rest of the world? Sweden? Fass and his hypothetical compatriots?

You weren't the one to make the U.S. You weren't the one to write the Bill of Rights. You weren't the one to die in the war for independence. The achievements that led to the creation of this nation are not yours. That you believe they are demonstrates that you do not understand the idea of individual merit. Here's a hint: Merit refers to what you do, not where you are.

But I am a continuation of those who have come before. I hold the Bill of Rights dear and I have educated myself on the acheivments of those who have made far greater sacrifices than I.

My merits are clearly understood to me and I demostrate them on a daily basis to my family and community. I may not have made the US but I keep the ideas of those who have warm and cozy. Individual merit means that my fortunes and mistakes are my own and are affected by my dedication to myself and my goals, not what racial class or gender I am.

Here's a hint: post about what I actually write rather than what you read into it. Perhaps you would like to explain where I take responsibility for writing the Bill of Rights or dying in the War of Independence? I re-read my post and see no such thing. I should say that having died in the War of Independence AND being able to post on this forum should give you pause since it would mean I have spooky, unnatural powers...

So you have the ability to do more with your life in the US? Why does the US have more opportunity? Because the individual can gain more through individual merit and hard work.

But if I was an outstanding soccer player I'd want to move to Spain, Italy or England. Why do they have more opportunity? They have bigger soccer 'industries' - nothing to do with any ideology. In the same way, the US has more opportunities for me because it is dominant in my specific field.

Nope. Not going to change it. I meant what I said. If you look at the majority of the richest and most successful people in the US you will see they are self made and who didn't win life's lottery or were born into a rich family. They become rich and achieve their goals through hard work, education, and sacrifice.

It's kind of hard to back that up, isn't it? A report from lse (http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/pressAndInformationOffice/newsAndEvents/archives/2005/LSE_SuttonTrust_report.htm) is perhaps better evidence but it doesn't agree with your conclusion.

Who is "we?" The rest of the world? Sweden? Fass and his hypothetical compatriots?

We who do not use the word incorrectly, regionally or ambiguously.

We who do not use the word incorrectly, regionally or ambiguously.

Come on Fass, most people outside of the USA are not so incredibly pedantic as to question what someone means when they say 'American' providing the context implies that that is what they are talking about.

But I am a continuation of those who have come before.
My ancestors were slaves. Doesn't mean I'm a slave.

I hold the Bill of Rights dear and I have educated myself on the acheivments of those who have made far greater sacrifices than I.
Congratulations. You know what they did. Doesn't mean that what they did makes you special, because you still didn't do it. Not that hard of a concept to grasp.

Here's a hint: post about what I actually write rather than what you read into it. Perhaps you would like to explain where I take responsibility for writing the Bill of Rights or dying in the War of Independence? I re-read my post and see no such thing. I should say that having died in the War of Independence AND being able to post on this forum should give you pause since it would mean I have spooky, unnatural powers...

The bit where you claim that those things make you special. They'd only make you special if you had anything to do with them. You do not, so you are not special. I realize that this may be a difficult concept for you to understand, but in the grand scheme of things, your contributions to what made the U.S. what you say it is are jack shit.

We who do not use the word incorrectly, regionally or ambiguously.

History and common sense are against you. In English, the term for a person from that country is American. In the rest of the Americas, the word is (usually) estadounidense, which is much less confusing but also in Spanish. It is illogical, but rarely ambiguous and confusing.

History and common sense are against you. In English, the term for a person from that country is American. In the rest of the Americas, the word is (usually) estadounidense, which is much less confusing but also in Spanish. It is illogical, but rarely ambiguous and confusing.

The name of the country is also different in Spanish.

But if I was an outstanding soccer player I'd want to move to Spain, Italy or England. Why do they have more opportunity? They have bigger soccer 'industries' - nothing to do with any ideology. In the same way, the US has more opportunities for me because it is dominant in my specific field.

American's pay their players more and you get to keep more of your money. Don't worry, we will dominate soccer soon enough.

It's kind of hard to back that up, isn't it? A report from lse (http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/pressAndInformationOffice/newsAndEvents/archives/2005/LSE_SuttonTrust_report.htm) is perhaps better evidence but it doesn't agree with your conclusion.

And yet we are still an economic power based solidly on small businesses. Hard to believe considering such a stratified society eh? I don't know about social mobility but economic mobility is just fine. Here is my source:

http://www.treasury.gov/press/releases/hp673.htm

Here is the WSJ's take on the numbers:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110010855

Not too shabby.

The name of the country is also different in Spanish.

Yes, but it comes from the "Estado Unidos" part, not the "de América."

Yes, but it comes from the "Estado Unidos" part, not the "de América."

I've never actually heard any Spanish speaker use anything more than "Estados Unidos".

I've never actually heard any Spanish speaker use anything more than "Estados Unidos".

I wouldn't know. The point is, the people who actually live in the Americas that are not the United States of America have a word that is not etymologically connected with "America" to describe the denizens of the Colossus of the North. (I can't remember where I heard that phrase. Textbook, maybe.) Unfortunately for us poor English speakers, there is no substitute that doesn't sound contrived. I just don't think that to use the commonly accepted term for people of the Land of the Fifty States should be seen as making some sort of moral statement.

What is an American you ask? Well, here you go:

1. (s)he is decended from immigrants or Native Americans or is, currently, a legal immigrant;
2. By age 18 (barring cognitive deficits) (s)he reads, writes and speaks English on at least a college entrance exam level ((s)he may be fluent in other languages as well, but that is not required);
3. (s)he believes that opportunity for advancement is the result of work, not luck or government handouts;
4 (s)he believes in the rule of law and works in the legal/political system to enact/change laws that (s)he wants and/or disagrees with, but until changed, adheres to laws (s)he disagrees with;
5 (s)he believes that capatalism encourages innovation;
6. (s)he does not disparage the U.S. abroad, despite disagreements with policy, but rather works inside the U.S. to change objectionable policy;
7. (s)he believes, generally, that the freedoms to speak, publish, worship, assemble, travel, own weapons for self-defense, pursue (and possibly obtain) happiness, be safe from unreasonable search, seizure & arrest without the fear of government intrusion are "natural" rights, not given by the government, but instead protected from government infringment;
8. (s)he demands that those who disagree with a point of view accept without question the right of those they disagree with to express their point of view;
9. (s)he demands the enforcement of laws;
10. (s)he understands that hand-in-hand with freedom and rights goes the requirement to use discretion and responsibility in exercising them; and
11. (s)he accepts that racial/ethnic/religious/ancestry loyalty and devotion are subserviant to national/American loyalty & devotion.

The minute being "black\asian\Indian\rich\poor\hispanic\jewish\protestant\catholic, etc." is more important than being "American" is the minute in which the U.S. goes from melting pot to a crouton rich salad.

To be a 'true' American, if you will, I'd say that this is mostly correct. But I don't think that Americans all need to adhere to a specific value system. We have socialists and moderate crouton-salad-making-folks who are very proud of their country.

There are, of course, U.S. citizens who just bitch about how America sucks to the world at large. I my opinion, they aren't 'true' Americans. There are also more apathetic people in America, usually natural-born citizens, that bitch about having to be bothered to say the goddamn Pledge of Allegiance ('Under God' or not) for thirty seconds, but also bitch about not having government-funded healthcare.

It's like teenage girls who won't do simple-ass chores, and then throw fits when Daddy doen't give them his credit card for the Mall.

There are also more apathetic people in America, usually natural-born citizens, that bitch about having to be bothered to say the goddamn Pledge of Allegiance ('Under God' or not) for thirty seconds, but also bitch about not having government-funded healthcare.

The fact that you can't tell the difference between these two things is extraordinarily telling, and causes one to question your qualifications to participate in this thread.

Here's a hint. One is about the obligation of hte government to care for its citizens. The other is about an "obligation" citizens have to the government.

Can we figure out which is which?

My ancestors were slaves. Doesn't mean I'm a slave.

So? My ancestors were beaten down by British overlords in Ireland and herded goats in Norway. That doesn't make me a Viking or hate the British. Is there an actual point to be found here?

Congratulations. You know what they did. Doesn't mean that what they did makes you special, because you still didn't do it. Not that hard of a concept to grasp.

What is hard to understand is what this has to do with anything I have written. I am special because of what I have done with the meager beginnings I have come from. This country has given me much and I return the favor.

I am sorry that such confidence and sence of self-worth combined with national pride offends you. Scratch that, I am not sorry. You obviously have issues that don't involve or interest me.

The bit where you claim that those things make you special. They'd only make you special if you had anything to do with them. You do not, so you are not special. I realize that this may be a difficult concept for you to understand, but in the grand scheme of things, your contributions to what made the U.S. what you say it is are jack shit.

Ahhhh, are you angry? I know you have to cover for flying way off course in your comments but you need not get so defensive of it.

America and Americans are special because of what we have done with what we have been given. We seized opportunities and created vast wealth for ourselves and many others. We have also made mistakes and we acknowledge that. I fully take credit for moving the Founder's American experiment forward considering I work very hard to do so. I don't know that and I don't expect you to.

I admit I am biased towards our achievements but most of you are biased against giving Americans any credit whatsoever. If we were as fat, dumb, and lazy as you believed you really need to ask yourself why the fat, dumb, and lazy kid is consistently outperforming you.

This. (http://img5.allocine.fr/acmedia/medias/nmedia/18/35/81/93/18441009.jpg)

Which makes about as much sense as your criteria.

2. By age 18 (barring cognitive deficits) (s)he reads, writes and speaks English on at least a college entrance exam level ((s)he may be fluent in other languages as well, but that is not required);

Nor is being fluent in English required. As far as I know, the US has no official language. Here in France, our Constitution says "La langue de la république est le français", but that's not the case for you.


3. (s)he believes that opportunity for advancement is the result of work, not luck or government handouts;


He/she is free to beliebe that the government should lend a helping hand to those willing to work hard but who are nonetheless unable to make ends meet. In fact, he/she is free to believe whatever he/she (henceforth "he" for the sake of brevity) wants.


5 (s)he believes that capatalism encourages innovation;


There's a reason why the Socialist Party of the United States is legal, you know. :rolleyes:


6. (s)he does not disparage the U.S. abroad, despite disagreements with policy, but rather works inside the U.S. to change objectionable policy;


Define "disparaging" the US. You're entitled to criticise your government.


7. (s)he believes, generally, that the freedoms to speak, publish, worship, assemble, travel, own weapons for self-defense, pursue (and possibly obtain) happiness, be safe from unreasonable search, seizure & arrest without the fear of government intrusion are "natural" rights, not given by the government, but instead protected from government infringment;


Americans are entitled to believe, as I do, that there's no such thing as "natural rights", since all rights are socially constructed.


8. (s)he demands that those who disagree with a point of view accept without question the right of those they disagree with to express their point of view;

Why don't you apply that to yourself, instead of implying that those who disagree with your narrow views are "unAmerican"?


11. (s)he accepts that racial/ethnic/religious/ancestry loyalty and devotion are subserviant to national/American loyalty & devotion.


"Loyalty and devotion" are not a requirement of citizenship.

What is an American you ask? Well, here you go:

1. (s)he is decended from immigrants or Native Americans or is, currently, a legal immigrant;
2. By age 18 (barring cognitive deficits) (s)he reads, writes and speaks English on at least a college entrance exam level ((s)he may be fluent in other languages as well, but that is not required);
3. (s)he believes that opportunity for advancement is the result of work, not luck or government handouts;
4 (s)he believes in the rule of law and works in the legal/political system to enact/change laws that (s)he wants and/or disagrees with, but until changed, adheres to laws (s)he disagrees with;
5 (s)he believes that capatalism encourages innovation;
6. (s)he does not disparage the U.S. abroad, despite disagreements with policy, but rather works inside the U.S. to change objectionable policy;
7. (s)he believes, generally, that the freedoms to speak, publish, worship, assemble, travel, own weapons for self-defense, pursue (and possibly obtain) happiness, be safe from unreasonable search, seizure & arrest without the fear of government intrusion are "natural" rights, not given by the government, but instead protected from government infringment;
8. (s)he demands that those who disagree with a point of view accept without question the right of those they disagree with to express their point of view;
9. (s)he demands the enforcement of laws;
10. (s)he understands that hand-in-hand with freedom and rights goes the requirement to use discretion and responsibility in exercising them; and
11. (s)he accepts that racial/ethnic/religious/ancestry loyalty and devotion are subserviant to national/American loyalty & devotion.

The minute being "black\asian\Indian\rich\poor\hispanic\jewish\protestant\catholic, etc." is more important than being "American" is the minute in which the U.S. goes from melting pot to a crouton rich salad.

sounds like that list can be narrowed down to...
1. be a person (with USofA citizenship)
2. (optional and subjective) be fearful of the government; love capitalism

What does it mean to be American? It means listening to most of the world bitching about how America sucks, while at the same time doing their even damnedest to move here.

not me, buddy. i can bitch alllll i want ;)

Because we might oppose what they do and what they stand for?

The army itself, or Iraq? I would agree with the latter, and partially with the former. If the British army seeks to inveigle its way back into public affection, a measure to stop squaddies behaving like depraved, violent, drunk animals when out in the UK might be quite effective.

However, none of the above alters the fact that the army is engaged in the service of the nation. Whether the cause is just or not, and whether the cause recieves public support or not, is immaterial; in ther service of government and society, they are due recognition of the form government gives. Public recognition

American's pay their players more and you get to keep more of your money. Don't worry, we will dominate soccer soon enough.

Wrong on both counts.


And yet we are still an economic power based solidly on small businesses. Hard to believe considering such a stratified society eh? I don't know about social mobility but economic mobility is just fine. Here is my source:

http://www.treasury.gov/press/releases/hp673.htm

Here is the WSJ's take on the numbers:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110010855

Not too shabby.

Short or medium term studies aren't nearly as useful as the tied parent-child study done by LSE. Students working part time and then going into high paid graduate jobs isn't a sign of mobility.

A·mer·i·can /əˈmɛrɪkən/ [uh-mer-i-kuhn]
–adjective
1. of or pertaining to the United States of America or its inhabitants: an American citizen.
2. of or pertaining to North or South America; of the Western Hemisphere: the American continents.
3. of or pertaining to the aboriginal Indians of North and South America, usually excluding the Eskimos, regarded as being of Asian ancestry and marked generally by reddish to brownish skin, black hair, dark eyes, and prominent cheekbones.
–noun
4. a citizen of the United States of America.
5. a native or inhabitant of the Western Hemisphere.
6. an Indian of North or South America.
7. American English.
8. a steam locomotive having a four-wheeled front truck, four driving wheels, and no rear truck.

There, now wasn't that easy? No messing about with 'true' Americans and other such silliness.

Who is "we?" The rest of the world? Sweden? Fass and his hypothetical compatriots?

Fass and the little Fasses who live in his head.

Your list is a total republican set of values. I agree with many of your ideas, but many of them go against American values. With Reagan I did not agree with him, but that was American politics. You were allowed to disagree. But these days, if you do not support our president completely and condone all of his actions blindly then you are un-American. But that is BS. Our nation was founded on civil disobedience. Civil disobedience and the act of protesting is my responsibility as an American. We are such a great nation simply because we are do voice our opinions. But these days, when I say it is not alright to torture people without charging them in Guantanamo bay, or when I say the patriot act hurts America, then I am un-American.

And that is wrong.

To say “(s) he does not disparage the U.S. abroad, despite disagreements with policy” destroys the idea of freedom of speech and ideas.

To say “(s) he believes that opportunity for advancement is the result of work, not luck or government handouts” disenfranchises millions who are not lazy, are not “bums”, but can not get work because of the economic crap-hole our president has put us in.

And to say “(s) he believes that capitalism encourages innovation” is to support even more so the disenfranchisement of the lower-class and the suppression of ideas.

And when you take away the people’s right to form opinions and organize to celebrate them, support them and try to get them enacted, then you are un-American.

So if I become an American citizen I'll get some kind of booklet explaining this to me? Because right now I don't understand individual merit, I can only think in primitive general terms like "America = good".

It's our Geography, bi-yatch! Name one country that's as geographically diverse as the U.S.

Don't, actually. I like my bubble, and this is really all I have left.

-snip-


What he said.

History and common sense are against you.

Actually, no. History and common sense support me. Not only is the correct usage of "American" to mean "inhabitant of the Americas" older than what became a subsequent, corrupt, regional and jingoist usage meaning "citizen of the USA", it is also of course much more commonsensical.

In English, the term for a person from that country is American.

In your limited English, no doubt. Not in mine, though.

In the rest of the Americas, the word is (usually) estadounidense, which is much less confusing but also in Spanish. It is illogical, but rarely ambiguous and confusing.

Oh, I never use "American" ambiguously or confusingly, since I do not use it the way people in the USA do. So to me, the word is not one whit confusing. The confused seem to be the people of the USA.

While most residents of other nations rely on ethnicity or nationality to define themselves, being "American" is often tied to a type of ideology. Not necessarily a political ideology but the love of freedom, self reliance, individuality and the pursuit of happiness. Dates back to the Revolution when the Patriots stayed but the Loyalists took off for Canada. In my opinion, hard working immigrants tend to be the most "american" when they get here.

American as in a denizen of the United Sates of America.

If he doesn't know that already, he's not really someone who could comprehend your post.

Ummmm.... yah, you go on believing that then.

Being an American is having the ability to screw up, then get mad and throw your military around the world. And then blame it on someone else.

I just have a green card. I was FORCED to immigrate here (parents)-so by choice I'd be back in Canada.

Emotastic!

Actually, no. History and common sense support me. Not only is the correct usage of "American" to mean "inhabitant of the Americas" older than what became a subsequent, corrupt, regional and jingoist usage meaning "citizen of the USA", it is also of course much more commonsensical.
.

We may have hijacked the name "American" however it was a long time ago. So it fits now with the current United States. As for what other "Americans" call us in Canada or El Salvador to Argentina is Americans. The descriptive that I see is North American, Central American or South American used for the others. They do not use the term "American" because they know it means a person residing in the USA. A bit pointless at trying to change it now because it is the norm. So common sense now dictates that we are to be called Americans.

What is an American you ask? Well, here you go:

1. (s)he is decended from immigrants or Native Americans or is, currently, a legal immigrant;
2. By age 18 (barring cognitive deficits) (s)he reads, writes and speaks English on at least a college entrance exam level ((s)he may be fluent in other languages as well, but that is not required);
3. (s)he believes that opportunity for advancement is the result of work, not luck or government handouts;
4 (s)he believes in the rule of law and works in the legal/political system to enact/change laws that (s)he wants and/or disagrees with, but until changed, adheres to laws (s)he disagrees with;
5 (s)he believes that capatalism encourages innovation;
6. (s)he does not disparage the U.S. abroad, despite disagreements with policy, but rather works inside the U.S. to change objectionable policy;
7. (s)he believes, generally, that the freedoms to speak, publish, worship, assemble, travel, own weapons for self-defense, pursue (and possibly obtain) happiness, be safe from unreasonable search, seizure & arrest without the fear of government intrusion are "natural" rights, not given by the government, but instead protected from government infringment;
8. (s)he demands that those who disagree with a point of view accept without question the right of those they disagree with to express their point of view;
9. (s)he demands the enforcement of laws;
10. (s)he understands that hand-in-hand with freedom and rights goes the requirement to use discretion and responsibility in exercising them; and
11. (s)he accepts that racial/ethnic/religious/ancestry loyalty and devotion are subserviant to national/American loyalty & devotion.

The minute being "black\asian\Indian\rich\poor\hispanic\jewish\protestant\catholic, etc." is more important than being "American" is the minute in which the U.S. goes from melting pot to a crouton rich salad.

Bolded the fail. If you have to be capitalistic to be American how are you tolerant of other's rights to express their POV while still being American?

Actually, no. History and common sense support me. Not only is the correct usage of "American" to mean "inhabitant of the Americas" older than what became a subsequent, corrupt, regional and jingoist usage meaning "citizen of the USA", it is also of course much more commonsensical.
Americans still means "inhabitant of the Americas." However, as long as there have been citizens of the United States, they have been called Americans. The first instance I can think of is "Letters from an American Farmer," which was written in in the early 1780s.

In your limited English, no doubt. Not in mine, though.
I'm not really sure what "limited" means, having three syllables and all. But rest assured, as soon as I find out, I will respond.

Oh, I never use "American" ambiguously or confusingly, since I do not use it the way people in the USA do. So to me, the word is not one whit confusing. The confused seem to be the people of the USA.
300 million versus Fass: hmmm....

What is an American you ask? Well, here you go:

1. (s)he is decended from immigrants or Native Americans or is, currently, a legal immigrant;
2. By age 18 (barring cognitive deficits) (s)he reads, writes and speaks English on at least a college entrance exam level ((s)he may be fluent in other languages as well, but that is not required);
3. (s)he believes that opportunity for advancement is the result of work, not luck or government handouts;
4 (s)he believes in the rule of law and works in the legal/political system to enact/change laws that (s)he wants and/or disagrees with, but until changed, adheres to laws (s)he disagrees with;
5 (s)he believes that capatalism encourages innovation;
6. (s)he does not disparage the U.S. abroad, despite disagreements with policy, but rather works inside the U.S. to change objectionable policy;
7. (s)he believes, generally, that the freedoms to speak, publish, worship, assemble, travel, own weapons for self-defense, pursue (and possibly obtain) happiness, be safe from unreasonable search, seizure & arrest without the fear of government intrusion are "natural" rights, not given by the government, but instead protected from government infringment;
8. (s)he demands that those who disagree with a point of view accept without question the right of those they disagree with to express their point of view;
9. (s)he demands the enforcement of laws;
10. (s)he understands that hand-in-hand with freedom and rights goes the requirement to use discretion and responsibility in exercising them; and
11. (s)he accepts that racial/ethnic/religious/ancestry loyalty and devotion are subserviant to national/American loyalty & devotion.

The minute being "black\asian\Indian\rich\poor\hispanic\jewish\protestant\catholic, etc." is more important than being "American" is the minute in which the U.S. goes from melting pot to a crouton rich salad.

The standard way to refer to a citizen of the United States is as an American. Though United States is the formal adjective, American and U.S. are the most common adjectives used to refer to the country ("American values," "U.S. forces"). American is rarely used in English to refer to people not connected to the United States. -- Wilson, Kenneth G. (1993). The Columbia Guide to Standard American English. New York: Columbia University Press, pp. 27–28. ISBN 0231069898.

_______________________________________________________
A-mer'i-can n. A native of America; -- originally applied to the aboriginal inhabitants, but now applied to the descendants of Europeans born in America, and especially to the citizens of the United States.

The name American must always exalt the pride of patriotism. Washington.

-- Noah Webster. The New World Dictionary of the English Language, Unabridged, 1828 with Addenda (1835).

_______________________________
In high school and college textbooks the terms American and Americanism refer to the principles and standards to which Americans (Citizens of the United States) are held. Philosophical concepts of Liberty and Equality under Law; to which the purpose of the government is to give the citizen the benefit of all rights, privileges, and immunities as can be justly and fully extended uniformly, and our heritage is one where being an American is measured fulfilling the moral obligation of extending those rights to others.

I don't have my grandfather's Civics book from the 1910s with me, but the chapter on citizenship holds the same ideals as Wowmaui has posted.

The ideals are very high ones. One cannot consider oneself an American unless they hold to the principles of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness; limited government of the people, by the people, for the people; and extending that right of self-governance to others. Other congruent teachings such as treating other people as one would wish to be treated themselves; working hard; keeping one's nose clean; keeping it out of other people's business; justice delayed being justice denied, etc, etc. Those who fail to do so, even if they are citizens of the US, can be and are usually considered unamerican. A term that some other nationalities can find puzzling.

One gets a sense of our obligation as Americans by reading such things as Noah Webster's Instruction to America's Children; George Washington's Farewell Address; Bastiat's The Law; On Democracy In America by de Tocqueville; and any American Civics for High School Students book from a school system whose curricula has not yet succumbed to the failure that is the Progressive Modern Education model of public instruction.

Some generations succeeded in leaving the country and the nation of states a little bit better place than they found it, such as those who fought the bloody War of Aggression to end slavery, or those who fought for women's suffrage and to end forced child labor, or the WW2 generation who willingly gave all they had to stop a madman a half a world away. Some generations have passed into the history books with a footnote of their hypocrisy (such as those who instigated the Trail of Tears, and Polk's War against Mexico). Abandoning Just War Theory for blatant Militarism, to secure foreign policy will be a black mark on my generation, and one from which the US might not recover in my lifetime.

wow. i didn't mean to ramble so much. i had hoped to explain why citizens of the U.S. call themselves Americans; why they consider being an American an exercise in philosophy and philanthropy; and why when a generation in particular succeeds where the former one has failed, tend to take pride in such an accomplishment.

An American is simply:

1) a person born within the United States of America
2) a naturalized citizen thereof

It also refers to:
3) a person who is a member of any of the nations contained within the continents of North and South America.

No more and no less.

A·mer·i·can /əˈmɛrɪkən/ [uh-mer-i-kuhn]
–adjective
1. of or pertaining to the United States of America or its inhabitants: an American citizen.
2. of or pertaining to North or South America; of the Western Hemisphere: the American continents.
3. of or pertaining to the aboriginal Indians of North and South America, usually excluding the Eskimos, regarded as being of Asian ancestry and marked generally by reddish to brownish skin, black hair, dark eyes, and prominent cheekbones.
–noun
4. a citizen of the United States of America.
5. a native or inhabitant of the Western Hemisphere.
6. an Indian of North or South America.
7. American English.
8. a steam locomotive having a four-wheeled front truck, four driving wheels, and no rear truck.

There, now wasn't that easy? No messing about with 'true' Americans and other such silliness.

It's funny how several key persons simply ignore this and keep going with their masturbatory tripe. Such is the inflation of one's ego, I suppose.

Being an American is not a case of defining yourself under one racial or social category, by making the flag you stick out over your porch bigger than the Jones' down the street, or trying to seek that desire to make money for the sake of making money (because that's the american dream).

Being an American is about living in a nation that was founded the ideals of a free society where nothing was impossible. When a man could make known his thoughts and not be punished for them. It's about cherishing the people who help to defend and safeguard those freedoms which we so take for granted. It's about trying your hardest to ascend above the social and racial paradigms that have plagued both the world and America itself in the past.

That is what I think it means to be an American.

What is an American you ask? Well, here you go:

1. (s)he is decended from immigrants or Native Americans or is, currently, a legal immigrant;
2. By age 18 (barring cognitive deficits) (s)he reads, writes and speaks English on at least a college entrance exam level ((s)he may be fluent in other languages as well, but that is not required);
3. (s)he believes that opportunity for advancement is the result of work, not luck or government handouts;
4 (s)he believes in the rule of law and works in the legal/political system to enact/change laws that (s)he wants and/or disagrees with, but until changed, adheres to laws (s)he disagrees with;
5 (s)he believes that capatalism encourages innovation;
6. (s)he does not disparage the U.S. abroad, despite disagreements with policy, but rather works inside the U.S. to change objectionable policy;
7. (s)he believes, generally, that the freedoms to speak, publish, worship, assemble, travel, own weapons for self-defense, pursue (and possibly obtain) happiness, be safe from unreasonable search, seizure & arrest without the fear of government intrusion are "natural" rights, not given by the government, but instead protected from government infringment;
8. (s)he demands that those who disagree with a point of view accept without question the right of those they disagree with to express their point of view;
9. (s)he demands the enforcement of laws;
10. (s)he understands that hand-in-hand with freedom and rights goes the requirement to use discretion and responsibility in exercising them; and
11. (s)he accepts that racial/ethnic/religious/ancestry loyalty and devotion are subserviant to national/American loyalty & devotion.

The minute being "black\asian\Indian\rich\poor\hispanic\jewish\protestant\catholic, etc." is more important than being "American" is the minute in which the U.S. goes from melting pot to a crouton rich salad.



Oh my. What an idiotic, nationalistic, borderline racist definition.

What does it mean to be an American? Nothing. There are no "americans" just as there are no "british", "french", "germans", etc. We are all just "people".

I know people within the USA like to think so, but what you think is not what we think. An American is an inhabitant of the Americas.

"We" = Fass? How many voices you got in there?

Oh my. What an idiotic, nationalistic, borderline racist definition.

What does it mean to be an American? Nothing. There are no "americans" just as there are no "british", "french", "germans", etc. We are all just "people".

I disagree. In the context of this topic we are Americans or Germans or Pastafarians, not merely "people".

Fortunately the facts back up this belief. It is true that success breeds envy and there are many Americans who feel that envy and believe that they should apologize. I do not.

I believe that it is no crime to be proud to be an American and to acknowledge our accomplishments and the beliefs that we were founded on. We make mistakes but our founding principles, and the success of those principles, seems to bring in a quite diverse selection of immigrants. I would say that when people vote with their feet they come here and that says something.

Yes. It is no crime to be proud of your accomplishments and the beliefs that you were founded on. And success and etc. And yes, you are special.

Just like everybody else.

The same line could be said by Brittish (look at our past Empire, and how our principles, language and culture is now most widespread in the world, etc. We are special), Russia (look how EU, which has 3 times population of Russia and 7 times the GDP of Russia, is afraid of us. All the world is afraid us. We brought communism and we can bring whatever we want. We are the bear of the world etc. we are special), France, Israel, or Armenia (first country in the world to adopt Christianity as its religion can argue that its founding principles were that successful - look to how many states Christianity has spread now. We are special). There are cultural heritage and current traditions in my own country, Latvia, that prooves that we are very special and exceptional compared to any other nation in the world.

"We" = Fass? How many voices you got in there?

Oh, quite a bunch. Most of the rest of the world, actually. Certainly more than USA bunch that identify two continents only with themselves.

being an american citizen
in before "america is a continent"

Being a citizen of one of these countries, or of their territories:
USA, Brazil, Mexico, Colombia, Argentina, Canada, Peru, Venezuela, Chile, Ecuador, Guatemala, Cuba, Bolivia, Dominican Republic, Haiti, Honduras, El Salvador, Paraguay, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Uruguay, Panama, Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago, Guyana, Suriname, Bahamas, Belize, Barbados, St.Lucia, St.Vincent & the Grenadines, St.Kitts and Nevis.

Citizens of european countries living in overseas territories of european countries are europeans. With some debate about the status of Greenlanders.

American for use as Us citizen is okay for spoken informal english.
If it leads to confusion in the context of a conversation we clarify and move on down the road.

In formal speaking or formal writing we do not use that terminology. That has always been the difference between informal and formal means of communication, to attempt to apply formal rules to informal communication is silly.

What has made the US of A great is the idea that it takes all sorts to make a nation; that anyone from anywhere who believes anything can drop into the melting pot and slosh about with the big apple and be a citizen and help make the country a better place to live for everybody.

What has made the US of A bad is the idea that only the ideologically pure clean-shaven square-jawed patriots who salute the freedom eagle every morning are true citizens and everyone else must be hauled up before the House Un-American Activities Committee for judgment.

Which of these ideas is predominant tends to oscillate throughout American history. You can probably tell which I prefer.

It means to be born in America. The USA isn't both continents you know :DPatently untrue. Neither I nor John McCain were born in the US, and yet we're both Americans.

American's pay their players more and you get to keep more of your money. Don't worry, we will dominate soccer soon enough.Not really. Money won't buy you skill; it's something that needs to be acquired at an early age and continuously improved through practice. Children don't go out and play soccer in the streets in America in a manner comparable to how it's done in Brazil.

To be a 'true' American, if you will, I'd say that this is mostly correct. But I don't think that Americans all need to adhere to a specific value system. We have socialists and moderate crouton-salad-making-folks who are very proud of their country.

There are, of course, U.S. citizens who just bitch about how America sucks to the world at large. I my opinion, they aren't 'true' Americans. There are also more apathetic people in America, usually natural-born citizens, that bitch about having to be bothered to say the goddamn Pledge of Allegiance ('Under God' or not) for thirty seconds, but also bitch about not having government-funded healthcare.

It's like teenage girls who won't do simple-ass chores, and then throw fits when Daddy doen't give them his credit card for the Mall.Drop the "True Scotsman" fallacy. Please.

An American is simply:

1) a person born within the United States of America
2) a naturalized citizen thereof

It also refers to:
3) a person who is a member of any of the nations contained within the continents of North and South America.

No more and no less.Actually, you missed natural-born citizens that weren't born in the United States.

Drop the "True Scotsman" fallacy. Please.


For Americans that fallacy doesn't apply since we all fit the "true American mold"

For Americans that fallacy doesn't apply since we all fit the "true American mold"Claiming not all Americans fit the "true American mold" is a fallacy. That's what I was quoting. You make no sense.

Claiming not all Americans fit the "true American mold" is a fallacy. That's what I was quoting. You make no sense.

if they don't fit the mold then they aren't Americans. We are all 6' 6" blonde hair blue eyed

What is an American you ask? Well, here you go:

Hmm, this could be amusing.

1. (s)he is decended from immigrants or Native Americans or is, currently, a legal immigrant;

Nonsense. As already explained, not all legal immigrants are Americans, and, to produce the other contrast, not all Americans are legal immigrants. I, for instance, am living in the UK. and have for my whole life.

2. By age 18 (barring cognitive deficits) (s)he reads, writes and speaks English on at least a college entrance exam level ((s)he may be fluent in other languages as well, but that is not required);

You wish. There's no official language of the US, so you can speak whatever you damn well like. Mind you, it could be tricky to carry out business, so it's a good idea, but there is no legal requirement for it. Of course, you could amend the constitution...

3. (s)he believes that opportunity for advancement is the result of work, not luck or government handouts;

Pfft. In a capitalist system? It's luck and already being rich, by and large. Of course, this is where the silliness of demanding Americans must be capitalist is going to bite you in the rear. It's only the result of work if all have equal opportunities.

4 (s)he believes in the rule of law and works in the legal/political system to enact/change laws that (s)he wants and/or disagrees with, but until changed, adheres to laws (s)he disagrees with;

Why? There's a wonderful quote about that, which (paraphrased) says that "Adherence to an unjust law is no virtue, and disobedience is no vice". The law is not inherently worthy of respect, and any attempt to suggest so is to compromise on the very principles that the country was founded upon.

5 (s)he believes that capatalism encourages innovation;

Nonsense. It encourages cronyism, nepotism, cartels, price fixing, profiteering, and myriad other undersireable things. About the only thing worse is state 'communism', which has all of those to a higher degree. Again, trying to demand that Americans are of one ideological strand is completely contradictory with your points 7 and 8.

6. (s)he does not disparage the U.S. abroad, despite disagreements with policy, but rather works inside the U.S. to change objectionable policy;

Again, nonsense: "My country, right or wrong. If right, to be kept right, and if wrong, to be set right." I can't work within the US to change objectionable policy, for a number of reasons. The first is that I'm 5 time zones away. The second is that the wonderfully selected and representative government of the US does not listen to my point of view. Thirdly, it's because the government of the US is run for the interests of the governers, not the people.

7. (s)he believes, generally, that the freedoms to speak, publish, worship, assemble, travel, own weapons for self-defense, pursue (and possibly obtain) happiness, be safe from unreasonable search, seizure & arrest without the fear of government intrusion are "natural" rights, not given by the government, but instead protected from government infringment;

Well, that one is about right. 1 out of 7 so far.

8. (s)he demands that those who disagree with a point of view accept without question the right of those they disagree with to express their point of view;

This contradicts your point 5, where you demand subscription to a particular ideology. Try keeping it consistent in future.

9. (s)he demands the enforcement of laws;

Why? I demand the abolition of laws, the removal of the government, and all that jazz. The enforcement of law runs totally contradictory to this. Furthermore, why should I have to demand the enforcement of unjust laws, or of laws that only exist to protect the government?

10. (s)he understands that hand-in-hand with freedom and rights goes the requirement to use discretion and responsibility in exercising them; and

No, not if you consider them natural rights. If they are natural rights, they must be absolute. Free speech does not require discretion. It applies to speech that you do not like, with only very few restrictions, mostly dealing with inctement to violence. And that is almost how it should be. There should be no restrictions on the exercise of rights, no requirements for the use of 'discretion' or 'responsibility'. Otherwise they become gifts of the government, to be removed at a whim.

11. (s)he accepts that racial/ethnic/religious/ancestry loyalty and devotion are subserviant to national/American loyalty & devotion.

Fuck off. I'm not subscribing to any sort of hive mind idea with respect to being American. I can and am allowed to put more weight on my relationships with friends, political allies, revolutionaries, communists, and Christians, then with the rest of America, the christofascists, the KKK, etc.

The minute being "black\asian\Indian\rich\poor\hispanic\jewish\protestant\catholic, etc." is more important than being "American" is the minute in which the U.S. goes from melting pot to a crouton rich salad.

Also nonsense. The minute being "American" becomes more important than actually identifying with yourself is the minute the word "American" becomes meaningless.

{snip}



not me, buddy. i can bitch alllll i want ;)

Thats why I said "most" so bitch away.

I would say the millions who have come to our shores and crossed our borders are proof of the belief in that philosophy. Liberty and individual merit.

Yes, yes. That tallies with history...

I also forgot that it isn't in fashion 'round these here parts to be proud to be an American but oh well,

I think it is more the perculiar"all-american," "mom's home cooked apple pie," wholesome, white gleeming teeth, unrealistic and whitewashing brand of americanism you are showing that is disliked around here (and many other parts, not least I think, the US itseld).

There is largely nothing wrong with liking your country, provided it is realistic and leavened with bad things done. This purely romantic vision is tiresome as best, and was passe in the 50s. This Potemkin village you've built isn't fooling anyone,

I don't change my beliefs to fit in.

Yes, you're such a martyr dear.


I just have a green card. I was FORCED to immigrate here (parents)-so by choice I'd be back in Canada.

Don't worry dear, if you work hard you'll be able to emmigrate on your own merits ;)

I'm with Fass on the "American" thing. I'm irked that our southern neighbour has highjacked the meaning of a word more encompassing to mean "citizen of the second largest country in the northern part of the hemisphere."

Also, there's no consensus on continents. So some people might have learned that North and South America are two separate continents while other have learned it's only one. So don't look stupid trying to claim your way is the only way.

being an american citizen

in before "america is a continent"

There are two continents...

There are two continents...

Also, there's no consensus on continents. So some people might have learned that North and South America are two separate continents while other have learned it's only one. So don't look stupid trying to claim your way is the only way.
;)

;)

Too bad I don't live in the magical Geo-legal region of the United States of America, then I could try to console myself with all the outsiders not following rule no. 8 :p.

I know people within the USA like to think so, but what you think is not what we think. An American is an inhabitant of the Americas.

You knew what was meant by the OP Fass, it was obvious in context.

You knew what was meant by the OP Fass, it was obvious in context.

Sure. But if we keep glossing it over, it will become the norm and we might not want that.

I'm with Fass on the "American" thing. I'm irked that our southern neighbour has highjacked the meaning of a word more encompassing to mean "citizen of the second largest country in the northern part of the hemisphere."

Also, there's no consensus on continents. So some people might have learned that North and South America are two separate continents while other have learned it's only one. So don't look stupid trying to claim your way is the only way.

hijacked? I think we've been using the term "American" to refer to a US citizen for quite some time now....should've spoke up about it sometime in the 1800s, maybe.

hijacked? I think we've been using the term "American" to refer to a US citizen for quite some time now....should've spoke up about it sometime in the 1800s, maybe.

There was a continent before there was the USA, so yeah, you highjacked the term.

I tried to speak up back in the days but a few things made my attempt futile:
1. The USA, high on manifest destiny juice and celebrating their independance wouldn't listen.
2. The internet wasn't invented so it took a while to get the message across.
3. And this is the big one: I wasn't born yet.

But I'm sure someone did raise a fuss as it wasn't the way to refer to USA citizen back then.

There was a continent before there was the USA, so yeah, you highjacked the term.

I tried to speak up back in the days but a few things made my attempt futile:
1. The USA, high on manifest destiny juice and celebrating their independance wouldn't listen.
2. The internet wasn't invented so it took a while to get the message across.
3. And this is the big one: I wasn't born yet.

But I'm sure someone did raise a fuss as it wasn't the way to refer to USA citizen back then.

so what do you propose citizens from the united states refer to themselves as? keep in mind, there is already several nations using the term United States (like Mexico) so I guess we can't call ourselves United Staters because that would be offensive to the Mexicans.

so what do you propose citizens from the united states refer to themselves as? keep in mind, there is already several nations using the term United States (like Mexico) so I guess we can't call ourselves United Staters because that would be offensive to the Mexicans.

If I had to redo it all over, I'd choose a different name for the country. That's where the whole mess started.

If I have to find only a name, I'd pick USAian for the written form but some people object. So I use USA citizen.

As for a nickname, I'd pick Yankee, but I understand that some people might find offense to that. But it's as good as any, I guess and it has the advantage of being specific enough that you can't help but think of the USA. I've never heard someone being refered as yankee somewhere else.

If I had to redo it all over, I'd choose a different name for the country. That's where the whole mess started.

If I have to find only a name, I'd pick USAian for the written form but some people object. So I use USA citizen.

As for a nickname, I'd pick Yankee, but I understand that some people might find offense to that. But it's as good as any, I guess and it has the advantage of being specific enough that you can't help but think of the USA. I've never heard someone being refered as yankee somewhere else.

United States of Americaian. Sounds like an intelligible name. Or maybe, just maybe, people can use the magical powers of context (gasp!) to discern whether someone is discussing the inhabitants of an entire continent or citizens from the USA. You know, instead of being asinine and obnoxious about it.

United States of Americaian. Sounds like an intelligible name. Or maybe, just maybe, people can use the magical powers of context (gasp!) to discern whether someone is discussing the inhabitants of an entire continent or citizens from the USA. You know, instead of being asinine and obnoxious about it.

True.

now let me ask you this:Which is the most assinine:
pedantly pointing out that the USA does not have a monopoly on the term American.

or

pedantly starting a thread using the term american in an all-encompassing manner in which you have to look into meaning when you could have used a more specific term.

I'm rather fed up with having to point out that American is not only the USA and lazy enough to want people to be more specific. It talks volume of my character but there you have it. Work on your vagueness and I'll work on my laziness.

EDIT: Oh and it would be pronounced you-ess-a-ian (USAian). About as long as a-mer-i-can.

True.

now let me ask you this:Which is the most assinine:
pedantly pointing out that the USA does not have a monopoly on the term American.

or

pedantly starting a thread using the term american in an all-encompassing manner in which you have to look into meaning when you could have used a more specific term.

I'm rather fed up with having to point out that American is not only the USA and lazy enough to want people to be more specific. It talks volume of my character but there you have it. Work on your vagueness and I'll work on my laziness.

EDIT: Oh and it would be pronounced you-ess-a-ian (USAian). About as long as a-mer-i-can.

1. I didn't start the thread, so using that argument against me is pretty pointless.

2. The OP includes the phrase US. I would think that would be a dead giveaway, though maybe some people's powers of induction aren't as strong.

3. My opinion now, as it always has been, is that USian, USAian or whatever derivation of it that people decide to come up with sounds and looks absolutely stupid. Ever hear someone refer to a British citizen as UKian? A soviet as USSRian?

1. I didn't start the thread, so using that argument against me is pretty pointless.

2. The OP includes the phrase US. I would think that would be a dead giveaway, though maybe some people's powers of induction aren't as strong.

3. My opinion now, as it always has been, is that USian, USAian or whatever derivation of it that people decide to come up with sounds and looks absolutely stupid. Ever hear someone refer to a British citizen as UKian? A soviet as USSRian?
I don't care who started the thread and I wasn't targetting you with my comment about who's the most assinine. I you felt targetted, I apologize. It wasn't my intention.

You can have your opinion on USian, and I use the term USA citizen to take into account those who think like you. But there's no way I'm going to refer to a citizen of THAT particular country as American. Never will.

I did see people refer to UKian. USSRians aren't used as that particular country is dead. Hell, I've seen CANian but it was merely to show contempt.

You meant American or USian?

Ever hear someone refer to a British citizen as UKian?

No, though the highly inaccurate term "English" is used though. Which is rather annoying.

In many ways UKian would be preferable...

English comes from the pretentions of England of claiming as his own Scotland, Ireland and Wales.

American comes from the pretentions of US to....guess what? :eek:

:p

English comes from the pretentions of England of claiming as his own Scotland, Ireland and Wales.

American comes from the pretentions of US to....guess what? :eek:

:p

owning the territory of the united states of america?

listen, if the US just conquered the rest of the americas, then would you stop bitching?

owning the territory of the united states of america?

listen, if the US just conquered the rest of the americas, then would you stop bitching?

To be honest, no. I would have more cause for bitching. ;)
But on that particular topic, yes. :p