NationStates Jolt Archive

I've always known that the US loves to do remakes of popular and successful foreign films -taking the exact same story and moving it from a Japanese, British, French, Spanish, etc... setting into a US setting- but I hadn't quite realised the extent of it. I've come across a list of US remakes of French films, which includes some of France's most successful films.

And it got me wondering again: WHY? Why do Americans seem to watch remakes of foreign films, rather than the originals? Is it because they're presumed to view anything that's set abroad and involves foreigners as uninteresting? Or is there some other reason?

Also, do some foreign films actually make it into US cinemas (apart from Le fabuleux destin d'Amélie Poulain), or is it really only remakes? In particular, do Americans watch foreign language films (be they dubbed or subtitled)?

Among very famous French films which have generated US remakes are:

Et Dieu... créa la femme, remade as And God Created Woman
La Cage aux Folles, remade as The Birdcage
Un Indien dans la ville, remade as Jungle 2 Jungle
Les Visiteurs, remade as Just Visiting
Le grand blond avec une chaussure noire, remade as The Man with One Red Shoe
Le Père Noël est une ordure, remade as Mixed Nuts
Mon père, ce héros, remade as My Father the Hero
Nikita, remade as Point of No Return
La Chèvre, remade as Pure Luck
Le Salaire de la peur, remade as Sorcerer
Taxi, remade as Taxi
Le Corbeau, remade as The 13th Letter
Trois hommes et un couffin, remade as Three Men and a Baby

There's an amazing number of US films which are simply French films remade, with almost the exact same story, but in a US setting. Why?

I watched Just Visiting once, and was appalled. It's identical to the French original. Same story, same characters, same jokes, same everything, but set in the US. Likewise, I started watching Three Men and a Baby once, out of curiosity, but stopped because it's exactly the same as the French original... but, again, moved to a US setting.

Do American viewers even know that these films are remakes?

Anyway, I find it rather baffling.

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/9213/83532314cq5.jpg
French original

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/157/18153241jm2.jpg
US remake

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/610/64955649bp5.jpg
French original

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/8330/72974038gj7.jpg
US remake

Because a subtitled foreign film will sell exactly five copies and an English language one will sell $30 million on opening weekend?

Because a subtitled foreign film will sell exactly five copies and an English language one will sell $30 million on opening weekend?

What's wrong with dubbing films? The rest of the world has been doing it for decades...

Isn't imitation the greatest form of flattery?

The global film industry is based in America so therefore foreign films are second rate or pretentious and boring. If all the comic book movies were made in Sweden, there'd be a different attitude.

Plus, people want stars.

Because a subtitled foreign film will sell exactly five copies and an English language one will sell $30 million on opening weekend?

Yes, it's all about the dollars. And who gets them.

Even if the French release is better (as with Taxi, and Nikita), the American audience often wants to see 'American' actors... and the American business man wants the revenue stream to be coming to Americans, rather than some French people.

Because a subtitled foreign film will sell exactly five copies and an English language one will sell $30 million on opening weekend?

Yes. But the question is why. Why won't people go and see a foreign film?

What's wrong with dubbing films? The rest of the world has been doing it for decades...

Exactly. France doesn't remake foreign films; it dubs and/or subtitles them.

Isn't imitation the greatest form of flattery?

Well, yes. But it still puzzles me. If they think the original film is so good, why remake it instead of showing the original?


Even if the French release is better (as with Taxi, and Nikita), the American audience often wants to see 'American' actors...

Why? :confused:

and the American business man wants the revenue stream to be coming to Americans, rather than some French people.

Ah, yes. That would explain a lot.

Are there occasionally foreign films shown in US cinemas, or is it really very rare?

I have seen most of the French films the OP mentions but only one of the USian remakes. Most Hollywood films at the moment seem to be recycling something, and the end result is largely manure.

Exactly. France doesn't remake foreign films; it dubs and/or subtitles them.


Because if you spend $150million remaking Ironman for France, you aren't going to get that money back. And if you spend $20million people are just going to watch the original. So French audiences get used to watching foreign films.

America is the only domestic market in the world that truly matters and as a result American audiences are used to having everything tailored to them.

Because if you spend $150million remaking Ironman for France, you aren't going to get that money back. And if you spend $20million people are just going to watch the original. So French audiences get used to watching foreign films.

America is the only domestic market in the world that truly matters and as a result American audiences are used to having everything tailored to them.

For films, India is really the only domestic market that matters...

For films, India is really the only domestic market that matters...

Well, it's somewhat of a given that we aren't talking about that. Unless they've started making bollywood films in Marseille.

Exactly. France doesn't remake foreign films; it dubs and/or subtitles them.


De battre mon coeur s'est arrêté?
J'ai Épousé une Ombre?

It does happen, it's just really rare. But the spirit of your point is still true. :)


Why? :confused:


Don't know. It's frustrating to see someone who is great at something, but isn't ever going to get real recognition because theya ren't American-audience friendly. (Tony Jaa being a perfect example).


Ah, yes. That would explain a lot.

Are there occasionally foreign films shown in US cinemas, or is it really very rare?

Really really rare. And what does get released gets really limited release.

Among very famous French films which have generated US remakes are:

Et Dieu... créa la femme, remade as And God Created Woman
La Cage aux Folles, remade as The Birdcage
Un Indien dans la ville, remade as Jungle 2 Jungle
Les Visiteurs, remade as Just Visiting
Le grand blond avec une chaussure noire, remade as The Man with One Red Shoe
Le Père Noël est une ordure, remade as Mixed Nuts
Mon père, ce héros, remade as My Father the Hero
Nikita, remade as Point of No Return
La Chèvre, remade as Pure Luck
Le Salaire de la peur, remade as Sorcerer
Taxi, remade as Taxi
Le Corbeau, remade as The 13th Letter
Trois hommes et un couffin, remade as Three Men and a Baby


I have never seen any of those movies, original or remake.


Do American viewers even know that these films are remakes?

Probably Not.

Yes. But the question is why. Why won't people go and see a foreign film?

Speaking as a North American, foreign films get VERY little exposure/marketing here, and we're force fed crap like Meet the Spartans (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf4bDKtel7c)

Why won't people go and see a foreign film?

Jingoist xenophobia.

<snip>

I seriously hate when Hollywood re-makes Japanese films. They kill them!

Some of the examples if re-makes are:

Juon:
http://www.stephensusco.com/images/Juon.jpg

American counterpart:
The Grudge
http://www.international.ucla.edu/cms/images/Grudge.jpg

Ringu:
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0009X765K.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

American counterpart:
The Ring
http://www.geocities.com/imperiocaos/ring.jpg

The Eye:
http://www.popculturebuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/the_eye_film.jpg

American counterpart:
The Eye (with friggin' Jessica Alba!!)
http://www.criticsrant.com/Images/criticsrant_com/Movies/The%20Eye/eye.jpg

Yes. But the question is why. Why won't people go and see a foreign film?

Ethnocentrism. Although they (the average american citizen) will deny that.

Exactly. France doesn't remake foreign films; it dubs and/or subtitles them.

Not just France, mostly everyone else in the world. However, I prefer to watch foreign movies with subtitles than dubbed.

Well, yes. But it still puzzles me. If they think the original film is so good, why remake it instead of showing the original?

Because they want to see familiar faces, and people talking in english. Just try to watch in horror "Vanilla Sky" (Abre los ojos). They don't want to experience things through the eyes and views of foreigners, but according to the "american" view. Then again, a little dose of patriotism, conformism, ethnocentrism, all mixed together. I don't think the american public, at large, is interested at all in multicultural exchange.

Did you know that the first offer for Harry Potter included a version where Harry came from Minnesotta and was a Twins fan?

Why? :confused::(

Speaking as a North American, foreign films get VERY little exposure/marketing here, and we're force fed crap like Meet the Spartans (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf4bDKtel7c)

I went and watched this movie in theater. Luckily they were free tickets.

First off it replaced the worst movie on the face of the earth, being Epic Movie, by a very small margin(Epic Movie is still effin horrendous) and second, who the FUCK thinks this shit up. I mean really????

Oh, and I suppose we Americans are more used to something we can really become familiar with and understand. As the film industry boomed in pre-WWII times the U.S. was pretty much a dominant power. After WWII, we didn't have to ask a foreigner to learn our language when they got here, it became Europe's second language because we fuckin told them it was. So basically, it kinda rolled in with "We don't wanna show your film cause our language is better and we don't want to use your steenking subtitles!" So, out of American world power came some innocent single-minded-ness that we don't really realize still hangs around today. Besides, it's just easier for us that way.

I seriously hate when Hollywood re-makes Japanese films. They kill them!

Some of the examples if re-makes are:

Juon:
http://www.stephensusco.com/images/Juon.jpg

American counterpart:
The Grudge
http://www.international.ucla.edu/cms/images/Grudge.jpg

Ringu:
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0009X765K.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

American counterpart:
The Ring
http://www.geocities.com/imperiocaos/ring.jpg

The Eye:
http://www.popculturebuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/the_eye_film.jpg

American counterpart:
The Eye (with friggin' Jessica Alba!!)
http://www.criticsrant.com/Images/criticsrant_com/Movies/The%20Eye/eye.jpg

"Premonition" and "Pulse" would have been better examples (well, I've not seen the remake of "The Eye") of the US completely fucking up a good foreign movie. The Ringu and Ju-on remakes weren't that bad - they were just unnecessary.

Because if you spend $150million remaking Ironman for France, you aren't going to get that money back. And if you spend $20million people are just going to watch the original.

There is that, yes.


So French audiences get used to watching foreign films.


No, you're missing something here. It isn't a matter of passive resignation. French people actually enjoy watching foreign films. Many people choose to watch them in the original language, with subtitles, rather than dubbed. Which leads me to wonder why most Americans seem uninterested in foreign films.

De battre mon coeur s'est arrêté?


D'oh!

Really really rare. And what does get released gets really limited release.

Thank you. That answers a question I've been asking myself for a while.

Speaking as a North American, foreign films get VERY little exposure/marketing here,

It makes me wonder how it was decided that North American audiences simply would not want to see foreign films. (Well, apart from Canadians seeing US films, that is.)


and we're force fed crap like Meet the Spartans (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf4bDKtel7c)

Oh, gawd... I hadn't heard of that one. I wish I still hadn't.

Jingoist xenophobia.

Good to see you're still around.

I seriously hate when Hollywood re-makes Japanese films. They kill them!

I'll take your word for it, and I'm not at all surprised. I've seen Ringu, and I've been wondering whether to watch The Ring, just to see what they've done to it. I think I won't bother.


Because they want to see familiar faces, and people talking in english. Just try to watch in horror "Vanilla Sky" (Abre los ojos). They don't want to experience things through the eyes and views of foreigners, but according to the "american" view. Then again, a little dose of patriotism, conformism, ethnocentrism, all mixed together. I don't think the american public, at large, is interested at all in multicultural exchange.

Yes, you're probably right. It's a shame. Watching foreign films would at least give people some exposure to foreign cultures.


Did you know that the first offer for Harry Potter included a version where Harry came from Minnesotta and was a Twins fan?


Eugh!

The 'non-melting pot' of culture does it again...

The reason the Americans don't want to see foreign films seems to be because they don't want to admit that any other country can make a half decent movie...and judging by the way some of them act, several don't want to admit that other countries even exist.

"Premonition" and "Pulse" would have been better examples (well, I've not seen the remake of "The Eye") of the US completely fucking up a good foreign movie. The Ringu and Ju-on remakes weren't that bad - they were just unnecessary.

I do think that the re-makes of The Ring and The Grudge, besides being unnecessary, were poorly executed. The story differed from the original and it was disappointing.

As for The Eye, I abhor Jessica Alba's acting, and I'm sure she completely fucked up a good movie like the Japanese version was.

In the interests of full disclosure, while I do live in the US, I'm not 'from' here. In the UK, we're a little more cosmopolitan.


Thank you. That answers a question I've been asking myself for a while.


For the most part, even if the movie was an international smash, don't expect a theatrical release.


I'll take your word for it, and I'm not at all surprised. I've seen Ringu, and I've been wondering whether to watch The Ring, just to see what they've done to it. I think I won't bother.


"The Ring" wasn't bad. I own both the original and the American version.


Yes, you're probably right. It's a shame. Watching foreign films would at least give people some exposure to foreign cultures.


I love watching world cinema. I'm a bit of a missionary with it, actually... I pimp out good movies - like: the stupidly renamed "District B13" (Banlieue 13) - to all my American friends. :)

I do think that the re-makes of The Ring and The Grudge, besides being unnecessary, were poorly executed. The story differed from the original and it was disappointing.


Disappointing... maybe. In The Ring, I liked the fact that the American girl is more empowered than the Japanese protagonist. They're not that different, and it's mainly flavour that gets lost. Which IS a shame, I agree.. but the Remakes of Ju-on and Ringu weren't terrible.


As for The Eye, I abhor Jessica Alba's acting, and I'm sure she completely fucked up a good movie like the Japanese version was.

Psst... it's not Japanese.... :)

Disappointing... maybe. In The Ring, I liked the fact that the American girl is more empowered than the Japanese protagonist. They're not that different, and it's mainly flavour that gets lost. Which IS a shame, I agree.. but the Remakes of Ju-on and Ringu weren't terrible.



Psst... it's not Japanese.... :)

Uhhh, you want me to spank you. Being so quarrely and all. Imma spank you hard.;)

http://ganjataz.com/smileys/01-grayball/images/gt-oddgrayball-spank.gif

What's wrong with dubbing films? The rest of the world has been doing it for decades...

it's more of the nuances and cultural references as well as tailoring the movie to fit the audiences.

Take Anime. Urusei Yatsura touched heavily on Japanese fokelore and legends. a straight translation to the US left many here going 'wtf'? and it wasn't as popular here as it was there. Many LD's had to have booklets included so that many of the 'jokes' and references would be understood.

Godzilla vs King Kong is one that Japan actually made two versions of the film. The first being that Godzilla wins and the other being King Kong wins. guess which was shown where?

The Original Godzilla added Raymond Burr to give the movie an American perspective. Mr. Burr's role was more narrator than actor (being an American reporter or some such, can't quite remember.)

The Eye, references alot of Chinese spirtuality and rituals that would be lost on Americans. Haven't seen the remake, but I'd wager that they were either taken out or retranslated to fit American traditions.

Juon was a collection of stories while The Grudge focused on one person.

it's more of the nuances and cultural references as well as tailoring the movie to fit the audiences.

Take Anime. Urusei Yatsura touched heavily on Japanese fokelore and legends. a straight translation to the US left many here going 'wtf'? and it wasn't as popular here as it was there. Many LD's had to have booklets included so that many of the 'jokes' and references would be understood.

I agree with you whole-heartedly. When I watch anime or foreign films, out of respect for the actors, I watch them with subtitles. A lot, as you say, is lost in dubbing plus it's like having a complete disregard for the artists's work.


The Eye, references alot of Chinese spirtuality and rituals that would be lost on Americans. Haven't seen the remake, but I'd wager that they were either taken out or retranslated to fit American traditions.

Knowing Hollywood, they probably did as you stated.

Juon was a collection of stories while The Grudge focused on one person.

Ditto. The American version does center on one person. Plus, the story changes a bit.

it's more of the nuances and cultural references as well as tailoring the movie to fit the audiences.

Take Anime. Urusei Yatsura touched heavily on Japanese fokelore and legends. a straight translation to the US left many here going 'wtf'? and it wasn't as popular here as it was there. Many LD's had to have booklets included so that many of the 'jokes' and references would be understood.

Godzilla vs King Kong is one that Japan actually made two versions of the film. The first being that Godzilla wins and the other being King Kong wins. guess which was shown where?

The Original Godzilla added Raymond Burr to give the movie an American perspective. Mr. Burr's role was more narrator than actor (being an American reporter or some such, can't quite remember.)

The Eye, references alot of Chinese spirtuality and rituals that would be lost on Americans. Haven't seen the remake, but I'd wager that they were either taken out or retranslated to fit American traditions.

Juon was a collection of stories while The Grudge focused on one person.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Kong_vs._Godzilla#Dual_ending_myth

I've always known that the US loves to do remakes of popular and successful foreign films -taking the exact same story and moving it from a Japanese, British, French, Spanish, etc... setting into a US setting- but I hadn't quite realised the extent of it. I've come across a list of US remakes of French films, which includes some of France's most successful films.
Germans do it to American movies/events as well. The Wave (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Welle_%282008%29) is based on The Third Wave and The Experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_Experiment) is based on the novel Black Box.

Course, the most horrible travesty American moviemakers have done in this manner was The Pledge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pledge_%28film%29). "The Pledge" is the title of the book, "It Happened in Broad Daylight" is the movie title. Dürenmatt must have been turning in his grave.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Kong_vs._Godzilla#Dual_ending_myth

Aahh... my mistake. :cool:

What's wrong with dubbing films? It usually weirds me out, because the sound and pictures usually don't entirely match up.
Of course it can be worse; they sometimes show Asian films here dubbed in English, and then subtitle them in Dutch; rather than just show the subtitled Asian version. that really bewilders me.

it's more of the nuances and cultural references as well as tailoring the movie to fit the audiences.

Take Anime. Urusei Yatsura touched heavily on Japanese fokelore and legends. a straight translation to the US left many here going 'wtf'? and it wasn't as popular here as it was there. Many LD's had to have booklets included so that many of the 'jokes' and references would be understood.

I tend to watch a lot of fan-subs. They have a tendency to pop up a brief explanation when something happens that would result in a WTF??? from US audiences.

I love watching world cinema. I'm a bit of a missionary with it, actually... I pimp out good movies - like: the stupidly renamed "District B13" (Banlieue 13) - to all my American friends. :)
Ah, now that's a good film, with some impressive French hip-hop on the soundtrack.

I tend to watch a lot of fan-subs. They have a tendency to pop up a brief explanation when something happens that would result in a WTF??? from US audiences.

My friends did a Fan Sub of Initial D before it was "Professionally done" and they included alot of auto facts that most people won't be aware of. :cool:

Are there occasionally foreign films shown in US cinemas, or is it really very rare?

Someone earlier answered this question by saying it was “VERY rare”-- which simply isn't true.
There are hundreds of foreign films that are released annually in the states. Some even get national release and promotion, such as Hero, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, House of Flying Daggers, Amelie and Pan’s Labyrinth. Many are nominated for academy awards.

In the mid 90’s, it was very popular to see Jackie Chan films released. Also, sometimes foreign films are released theatrically without much notice, but find a cult following once their released on DVD. Trainspotting, Run Lola Run, Shaun of the Dead, Hot Fuzz, etc… There are many, many more.

As for dubbing, Americans prefer to watch foreign films with subtitles as opposed to dubbing. This is a more “pure” experience of the story the director intended the audience to see, as well as, the actor’s performance. Most Americans view dubbing as “tainting” the film.

Someone earlier answered this question by saying it was “VERY rare”-- which simply isn't true. Americans prefer to watch foreign films with subtitles as opposed to dubbing. This is a more “pure” experience of the story the director intended the audience to see, as well as, the actor’s performance. Most Americans view dubbing as “tainting” the film.

There are hundreds of foreign films that are released annually in the states. Some even get national release and promotion, such as Hero, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, House of Flying Daggers, Amelie and Pan’s Labyrinth. Many are nominated for academy awards.

In the mid 90’s, it was very popular to see Jackie Chan films released. Also, sometimes foreign films are released theatrically, but find a cult following once their released on DVD. Trainspotting, Run Lola Run, Shaun of the Dead, Hot Fuzz, etc… There are many, many more.


But it's still very rare to see foreign films in US cinemas.

Another thing that annoys me greatly is when Holywood adpats to the screen foreign literature pieces like Isabel Allende's books.

An example:
Isabel Allende's "La Casa de los Espíritus", or it's name in English "The House of Spirits". The book is just wonderful and when it was brought to the big screen, it lost so much to the point of not even resembling the original work.

No, you're missing something here. It isn't a matter of passive resignation. French people actually enjoy watching foreign films. Many people choose to watch them in the original language, with subtitles, rather than dubbed. Which leads me to wonder why most Americans seem uninterested in foreign films.


(Warning: these figures are just off the top of my head and might be wrong) I believe that in France last year, American films took a few percent more than half of the BO share whilst French films made up nearly all of the rest. This suggests to me that French audiences have indeed just become used to American films and that this is more important a factor than any cultural difference.

My friends did a Fan Sub of Initial D before it was "Professionally done" and they included alot of auto facts that most people won't be aware of. :cool:

It really does seem odd to me that the fan-subs are often more professionally done than the "professional" jobs.

It really does seem odd to me that the fan-subs are often more professionally done than the "professional" jobs.Well, fan-subbers love what they do, to professionals it's just a job.

As for dubbing, Americans prefer to watch foreign films with subtitles as opposed to dubbing. This is a more “pure” experience of the story the director intended the audience to see, as well as, the actor’s performance. Most Americans view dubbing as “tainting” the film.[/QUOTE]

From my experience, I have to disagree. I prefer subtitles myself, but I have many friends who enjoy foreign films but insist on watching them with dubbing.

As to accusations of jingoism in other posts, sadly there's some truth to that. I do not, however, think that it is a primary reason for the unpopularity of foreign films. Foreign films seldom get much exposure in America, therefore Americans are seldom interested in foreign films, therefore foreign films seldom get much exposure. I think this is probably due to the fact that the film industry first really began to thrive and prosper in America, and for at least the first few decades in the history of filmmaking most great movies were made in America. There were of course exceptions, Fritz Lang's films for instance, but it is perhaps significant that Fritz Lang eventually moved to the United States. Luis Bunuel did as well, at least until his political views forced him to leave. World War II probably depressed European cinema as well, while leaving American cinema relatively unharmed. Of course by the 1950s at the latest the situation had changed, and many great foreign films were being made, but for Americans habits had already been ingrained. This is beginning to change now, mainly due to the fact that Hollywood films are almost universally terrible. Remakes actually play a big part in this changing attitude; they may bother you if you've seen the original, but they also make many people aware of the originals who otherwise would never have heard of them. How many Americans would have heard of Internal Affairs if Martin Scorsese hadn't made The Departed?

Did you know that the first offer for Harry Potter included a version where Harry came from Minnesotta and was a Twins fan?


Now that is just unrealistic, as I am from Minnesota.

I mean, I can handle wizards, and magic, and centaurs, and fantasmical creatures, but do they really expect me to suspend my disbelief enough to believe that someone actually LIKES the Twins? I think not.

Foreign films are crap. That's why we don't watch them. Damn foreigners!

Actually, I've never seen those films, french originals or american remakes. I have watched some of the Akira Kurasawa films that inspired our Western films. Don't watch the newer Magnificent Seven - It's garbage, making a mockery of both the original Magnificent Seven and, by extension, The Seven Samurai. I watched the films in Japanese with English subtitles. I don't like dubbing. Even if I can't understand the words, the intensity of the original performance comes through.

American version
http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/coverv/20/173120.jpg
British Version
http://www.uclan.ac.uk/old/host/cinema/images/Get_Carter_poster.jpg
American Version
http://www.cyber-cinema.com/original/ladykillers502213.jpg
British Version
http://www.britishpictures.com/photos3/pics/ladykillers_poster.jpg

But it's still very rare to see foreign films in US cinemas.

Another thing that annoys me greatly is when Holywood adpats to the screen foreign literature pieces like Isabel Allende's books.

An example:
Isabel Allende's "La Casa de los Espíritus", or it's name in English "The House of Spirits". The book is just wonderful and when it was brought to the big screen, it lost so much to the point of not even resembling the original work.

thats true of most novels that are turned into movies.

not that the movie automatically sucks but that it is very different than the book it came from.

Straightforward answer:

People naturally prefer films that occur in familiar territory, or starring people with whom they can identify and feel familiar. Placing a film in an American setting, or, at least placing Americans in a film makes it so that the audiences can more easily identify with the characters in the film. The reason why it's such a major phenomenon in the United States is because Hollywood has the resources and the market to succeed, whereas other countries and their film industries do not have similar options.

300 Million people is a potent market, and the potentiality of it is, just by sheer numbers, five times greater than that of, say, France.

As for the first comment from FAss, it's got nothing to do with jingoism or xenophobia. It has everything to do with important elements of telling and selling a story.

What's wrong with dubbing films? The rest of the world has been doing it for decades...

Unfortunately, reading has gone out of style here.

Do American viewers even know that these films are remakes?
1. Et Dieu... créa la femme, remade as And God Created Woman
2. La Cage aux Folles, remade as The Birdcage
3. Un Indien dans la ville, remade as Jungle 2 Jungle
4. Les Visiteurs, remade as Just Visiting
5. Le grand blond avec une chaussure noire, remade as The Man with One Red Shoe
6. Le Père Noël est une ordure, remade as Mixed Nuts
7. Mon père, ce héros, remade as My Father the Hero
8. Nikita, remade as Point of No Return
9. La Chèvre, remade as Pure Luck
10. Le Salaire de la peur, remade as Sorcerer
11. Taxi, remade as Taxi
12. Le Corbeau, remade as The 13th Letter
13. Trois hommes et un couffin, remade as Three Men and a Baby

1. Didn't know it was a remake, and never saw it.
2. Didn't know it was a remake
3. Didn't know it was a remake until after I saw it
4. Didn't know it was a remake until after I saw it
5. Didn't know it was a remake, and never saw it.
6. Didn't know it was a remake, and never saw it.
7. Didn't know it was a remake, and never saw it.
8. Knew it was a remake, and have seen both versions.
9. Didn't know it was a remake, and never saw it.
10. Didn't know it was a remake, and never saw it.
11. Didn't know it was a remake, and never saw it.
12. Didn't know it was a remake, and never saw it.
13. Didn't know it was a remake.

Straightforward answer:

Ethnocentrist people naturally prefer films that occur in familiar territory, or starring people with whom they can identify and feel familiar, specially in race, culture and language. Placing a film in an American setting, or, at least placing Americans in a film makes it so that the audiences can more easily identify with the characters in the film, thus avoiding the notion that people from other places could think alike, or even worse, live the same experiences or feelings than them. The reason why it's such a major phenomenon in the United States is because Hollywood has the resources and the market to succeed, whereas other countries and their film industries do not have similar options, because they are foreigners and then, untalented idiots, or because they are brown.

300 Million people is a potent market, and the potentiality of it is, just by sheer numbers, and spread dumbness and malleability of the general public, five times greater than that of, say, France.

As for the first comment from FAss, it's got everything to do with jingoism or xenophobia. It has nothing to do with important elements of telling and selling a story, although we do know that only americans know how to tell or sell stories.

Fixed.

What's wrong with dubbing films? The rest of the world has been doing it for decades...

with comedy movies it doesn't carry over well in dubbed translations. Compared a dubbed Version of a Film compared to a subtitled version of a film.

normally more info on the subtitled right ?
Because expressions and phrases have a different means of delivery or take different amounts of time to get across the similar meaning in different languages.

In non comedy films or more serious comedies Cultural references will not be picked up by an American Audiences, where as a French audience is likely to catch American cultural references.

All I'll say is that the original Taxi is excellent, and its remake is a crime against deceny.

Though I may say something else later

You forgot Abre Los Ojos. I am a huge fan of the original, but after 15 minutes of the remake (and I'm not going to tell you what it's called, because hopefully some of you will now go and do research) I turned it off.

You forgot Abre Los Ojos. I am a huge fan of the original, but after 15 minutes of the remake (and I'm not going to tell you what it's called, because hopefully some of you will now go and do research) I turned it off.

I already named that piece of crap.

Someone earlier answered this question by saying it was “VERY rare”-- which simply isn't true.
There are hundreds of foreign films that are released annually in the states. Some even get national release and promotion, such as Hero, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, House of Flying Daggers, Amelie and Pan’s Labyrinth. Many are nominated for academy awards.


Glad to hear it.

It should be noted, though, that it would be exceedingly difficult to do remakes of those films, setting the stories in the US. Which makes it a choice between showing the original versions of very successful films (in these specific cases), or not showing them in any way at all.

Plus, Amélie was particularly suited for a foreign audience. It was essentially selling a particular image of France. ;)

You forgot Abre Los Ojos. I am a huge fan of the original, but after 15 minutes of the remake (and I'm not going to tell you what it's called, because hopefully some of you will now go and do research) I turned it off.

No wonder you did. It has Tom Cruise and Penélope Cruz (although she´s a fellow countrywoman, I seriously despise her acting). What more could you expect?

I went and watched this movie in theater. Luckily they were free tickets.

First off it replaced the worst movie on the face of the earth, being Epic Movie, by a very small margin(Epic Movie is still effin horrendous) and second, who the FUCK thinks this shit up. I mean really????

Both of those and "Date Movie" were made by these two (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Friedberg) assholes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Seltzer), now they're working on a "parody" of Superbad.

No wonder you did. It has Tom Cruise and Penélope Cruz (although she´s a fellow countrywoman, I seriously despise her acting). What more could you expect?

Is Penelope Cruz nude?

No wonder you did. It has Tom Cruise and Penélope Cruz (although she´s a fellow countrywoman, I seriously despise her acting). What more could you expect?

She's in the original too though?

Penelope Cruz's nude?
She's in the original too though?
Yes to the first, yes to the second and yes to the combination of the two.

She's in the original too though?

She is. But in the rest of the Spanish cast makes up for her lack of... talent.


Penelope Cruz's nude?

Now, NM, from could you have garnered that? I never said Penélope was naked in the movie. The sole fact the Tom Cruise is in ¨Vanilla Sky¨ was enough for me to not go see the movie when it hit theatres nor to rent it.

*shudders thinking about TC*

Because people like to see a movie that they can relate to.

Also, dubbing is very hit or miss. The Spanish dubs of this American movie I saw (I can't remember the title) while I was in Spain were absolutely awful.

Because people like to see a movie that they can relate to.

Also, dubbing is very hit or miss. The Spanish dubs of this American movie I saw (I can't remember the title) while I was in Spain were absolutely awful.

Dubs, mainly, are always awful. That´s what´s sad. Try watching a Disney cartoon movie in Spanish. It´ll make you cringe. Nothing more horrible than listening to Timon and Pumba from The Lion King, in Spanish.

*shudders*

KP1;13703910']Unfortunately, reading has gone out of style here.

So true.

I know tons of people who didn't go see Pan's Labyrinth because they didn't feel like reading, which I think is crap.

I personally would love to see more foreign films, but they simply don't show them here. Sadly, many Americans are close minded and don't feel like opening up to other cultures. My stepdad as a matter of fact, is one of those people. He feels that every thing that's not from America is bad.

However. Not all Americans are like this. I know just as many people who feel the same way I do as I know people who are like my stepdad. I've met more people who feel the same way I do since I've gotten to college and have mingled among educated people. Times are changing and people of the newer generations in America are going to become more open to things foreign.

This being the case, I think it is very unfair and find it very offensive that you lump every American in with the close minded types. You all say terrible things about all of America when there are many Americans like myself who are welcoming of others and who actually want to learn and experience other cultures. Yes, many Americans have God Complexes, but there are others out there who don't and there are many more growing up now that aren't going to have this complex either.

Just something to think about when you start bashing all of America for being America-centric. Thank you.

Dubbing is a crime against humanity that should never, ever be even attempted, even on an animation. I don't know why they've even been popular. They ruin movies.

I, for one, would love to see an American remake of La Haine. Just to see how crap it was :p

And aye, dubbing, eugh. Get subtitles on.

I, for one, would love to see an American remake of La Haine. Just to see how crap it was :p
It'd be in glorious technicolour, and end with a CGI slow-mo sequence of bullets killing both boys. ;)

It'd be in glorious technicolour, and end with a CGI slow-mo sequence of bullets killing both boys. ;)

Don´t forget a fast-paced car chase. In American movies, those are essential.:D

It'd be in glorious technicolour, and end with a CGI slow-mo sequence of bullets killing both boys. ;)
Eh, I think you mean the lad and the polis.

Eh, I think you mean the lad and the polis.
Ooh yeah, though aren't both of the boys in the scene?

Mind, I haven't seen it in years, but I seem to remember a pointless discussion afterwards about whether we thought guywithnogun would jump in between the cop and his friend.

Ooh yeah, though aren't both of the boys in the scene?
*SPOILER*

Vinz gets shot in the head by the polis guy. Hubert then points the revolver at the polis chap, and Saïd has his eyes shut when the last round goes off.

So all 3 are in the scene, really. But Hubert doesn't come back until Vinz gets shot and all that.

Vinz gets shot in the head by the polis guy. Hubert then points the revolver at the polis chap, and Saïd has his eyes shut when the last round goes off.

So all 3 are in the scene, really. But Hubert doesn't come back until Vinz gets shot and all that.
Shit, I'll have to watch it again.

Not that that's a tragedy in itself; damn good film.

My two cents, movies are meant to be seen, not read. It's the screenwriters motto, show don't tell. That has been in movie culture for years and will likely live on. Sad, yes, anything you can do about it? No. Yes sometimes it is out of laziness but let's face it, Friday night you have come to see a film and relax after a long week, you don't want to have to struggle to keep up with the subtitles.

My two cents on dubs and subs: Personally I can't watch live action dubs. It's painfully obvious. Anime I almost always prefer dubbed, because unlike the Hollywood system, the companies usually give a care. Plus what most fans don't know or won't admit, any and all changes come pre-approved. In the end it's always about dollars and cents.

The idea a sub (especially a fan sub) is 1000 times more accurate a fallacy. No matter what, be it subbed or dubbed there are just some things that are going to get lost in translation, period. A character might make a joke but the line doesn't come out that way, and the translators just have to go with what they are seeing on paper. Just because in French it says "Bob, run away!" doesn't mean it's going to translate like that. It may come out completely crazy, so naturally the subtitle writers as well as dub writers have to get creative to make a sentence coherent. Otherwise you get "All your base are belong to us." You want the full proper story, learn the language and go see it raw. Otherwise you have to just take it for what it is.

Dubbing is a crime against humanity that should never, ever be even attempted, even on an animation. I don't know why they've even been popular. They ruin movies.

I can think of a few successful dubs, especially with animation. However, I can think of just as many, if not more, abominations that have resulted from dubbing.

Unless the dub is really good, I much prefer subtitles. They're a closer translation anyway.

My two cents, movies are meant to be seen, not read. It's the screenwriters motto, show don't tell. That has been in movie culture for years and will likely live on. Sad, yes, anything you can do about it? No. Yes sometimes it is out of laziness but let's face it, Friday night you have come to see a film and relax after a long week, you don't want to have to struggle to keep up with the subtitles.


"Show don't tell" is nothing to do with reading. And movies aren't always about relaxing. No one went to see a Bergman film (for guaranteed hilarity, quoters should cut at this point) to forget their worries.

Now, NM, from could you have garnered that? I never said Penélope was naked in the movie. The sole fact the Tom Cruise is in ¨Vanilla Sky¨ was enough for me to not go see the movie when it hit theatres nor to rent it.

*shudders thinking about TC*

typo, fixed now.

So true.

I know tons of people who didn't go see Pan's Labyrinth because they didn't feel like reading, which I think is crap.

I personally would love to see more foreign films, but they simply don't show them here. Sadly, many Americans are close minded and don't feel like opening up to other cultures. My stepdad as a matter of fact, is one of those people. He feels that every thing that's not from America is bad.

However. Not all Americans are like this. I know just as many people who feel the same way I do as I know people who are like my stepdad. I've met more people who feel the same way I do since I've gotten to college and have mingled among educated people. Times are changing and people of the newer generations in America are going to become more open to things foreign.

This being the case, I think it is very unfair and find it very offensive that you lump every American in with the close minded types. You all say terrible things about all of America when there are many Americans like myself who are welcoming of others and who actually want to learn and experience other cultures. Yes, many Americans have God Complexes, but there are others out there who don't and there are many more growing up now that aren't going to have this complex either.

Just something to think about when you start bashing all of America for being America-centric. Thank you.
Certain big cinemas occasionally get foreign movies. They are showing live-action Death Note movie here this week and I'm trying to find time to go.

typo, fixed now.

Ok.

Fixed.

You made it wrong :(

What I said is correct, and damn near universal. People like to watch movies they can relate to, the US just has a significantly large market to do so, further, foreign film companies have not made a sufficient attempt to gain a foothold in the US, and if they'd tried to do what Hollywood has done abroad, maybe we'd see more foreign films.

People haven't mentioned this yet (I think I haven't read the last two pages of this thread) but I think it's all in the perception people have of foreign films in the US.

When people think of those who see foreign language films they are all yuppies, young, crazy liberal, probably gay, etc. etc. etc.

Americans don't want to be associated with that so they don't see the films.

We have lots of Foreign films here. just the ones that mostly get shown in the theater are Asian, because Asians tend to make better films then Europeans. more interesting, more violence, and special effects. Not to mention the overwhelming 1.2 billion Chinese are never wrong VIBE.

the official world wide ranking of films by country is.

USA-> Hong Kong-> South Korea -> Japan -> Taiwan -> India -> Thailand ->Rest of China -> Rest of Asia -> all of Europe -> Latin America -> Africa (count south Africa as part Europe though).

If you Europeans want us to stop fixing your movies then make better movies, we don't remake the Asian movies because they know how to do them properly.

Certain big cinemas occasionally get foreign movies. They are showing live-action Death Note movie here this week and I'm trying to find time to go.

I live in a place where the closest big movie theater that might even show those types of films is about an hour away. I can't afford to pay for that much gas to go see a movie. :(

There's an amazing number of US films which are simply French films remade, with almost the exact same story, but in a US setting. Why?

Becaust it is Not invented here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_invented_here)

We have lots of Foreign films here. just the ones that mostly get shown in the theater are Asian, because Asians tend to make better films then Europeans. more interesting, more violence, and special effects. Not to mention the overwhelming 1.2 billion Chinese are never wrong VIBE.

the official world wide ranking of films by country is.

USA-> Hong Kong-> South Korea -> Japan -> Taiwan -> India -> Thailand ->Rest of China -> Rest of Asia -> all of Europe -> Latin America -> Africa (count south Africa as part Europe though).

If you Europeans want us to stop fixing your movies then make better movies, we don't remake the Asian movies because they know how to do them properly.

Oh, rly??

What about The ring?
I mean the American remake of the Japanese film Ringu.

And I'm naming just the first one to come to my mind...

I like some foreign films.

I plan on seeing the Genghis Khan movie that was made in...Russia, I think, when it hits theaters in the US in June or July.

I don't see a lot of movies at the theater though, mainly because its kinda pricey nowadays, plus theaters can be very crowded. And I hate crowds.

I like some foreign films.

I plan on seeing the Genghis Khan movie that was made in...Russia, I think, when it hits theaters in the US in June or July.

I don't see a lot of movies at the theater though, mainly because its kinda pricey nowadays, plus theaters can be very crowded. And I hate crowds.

The Ruskies do seem to have a talent for historical films, as long as you dont mind a certain...shall we say, bias towards the Russian side of said historical films.
Anybody else seen the trailers for that movie about the Great Northern War? The one that looked like a Russian re-make of The Patriot?

Anyway, speaking of terrible remakes:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=K5UfIRmkv28

Parodies are always good. I imagine most of NSG will have no idea whats going on, though >_>

And it got me wondering again: WHY? Why do Americans seem to watch remakes of foreign films, rather than the originals?

1. Don't underestimate the laziness of those of us who speak English as a first language when it comes to learning a second language;
2. Dubbing looks awful;
3. Subtitles will work for some films, not for others.

Those are the reasons for foreign language films. Why they remake films that are already in English is a little less clear.

Oh, rly??

What about The ring?
I mean the American remake of the Japanese film Ringu.

And I'm naming just the first one to come to my mind...


there are a few , Akira is also coming out with a remake.
but us Americans were not the first to remake that movie, the Koreans were.
mostly had to do with changing the film to fit cultural ideals of ghost and hauntings. Most of my Japaneses friends have been utterly shocked by how little gajin get the film. Mostly because of a lack of understanding of Shintoism and how it relates spirits.

Hollywood likes to bastardise the art of film.

We have lots of Foreign films here. just the ones that mostly get shown in the theater are Asian, because Asians tend to make better films then Europeans. more interesting, more violence, and special effects. Not to mention the overwhelming 1.2 billion Chinese are never wrong VIBE.

the official world wide ranking of films by country is.

USA-> Hong Kong-> South Korea -> Japan -> Taiwan -> India -> Thailand ->Rest of China -> Rest of Asia -> all of Europe -> Latin America -> Africa (count south Africa as part Europe though).

If you Europeans want us to stop fixing your movies then make better movies, we don't remake the Asian movies because they know how to do them properly.

Asian movies are often re-made. What about The Ring?

And European cinema and American cinema both have their good traits, however, you just prove that you - and the people from your country - are intolerant and ignorant. Just because you don't enjoy European cinema doesn't make it bad. Do you even know where the "Movie Montage" comes from? Oh, that's right... Soviet cinema. Do you know where creepy shit, like eyeballs being cut comes from? Oh, that's right, French experimental cinema.

And South Africa isn't part of Europe.

Asian movies are often re-made. What about The Ring?

And European cinema and American cinema both have their good traits, however, you just prove that you - and the people from your country - are intolerant and ignorant. Just because you don't enjoy European cinema doesn't make it bad. Do you even know where the "Movie Montage" comes from? Oh, that's right... Soviet cinema. Do you know where creepy shit, like eyeballs being cut comes from? Oh, that's right, French experimental cinema.

And South Africa isn't part of Europe.

Hey, not all of us think there's anything wrong with European movies.

And, yeah, I don't get grouping South Africa in with Europe either.

Asian movies are often re-made. What about The Ring?

And European cinema and American cinema both have their good traits, however, you just prove that you - and the people from your country - are intolerant and ignorant. Just because you don't enjoy European cinema doesn't make it bad. Do you even know where the "Movie Montage" comes from? Oh, that's right... Soviet cinema. Do you know where creepy shit, like eyeballs being cut comes from? Oh, that's right, French experimental cinema.

And South Africa isn't part of Europe.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UhHhXukovMU
there is a reason euro cinema is not watched here stuff like the above is.

I said it was not as good as US and Asian cinema.

South African cinema gets grouped with European because the stuff before Apartied ended really should not be considered African.

South African cinema gets grouped with European because the stuff before Apartied ended really should not be considered African.

Course it is. It is just absurd to say otherwise.

I, for one, would love to see an American remake of La Haine. Just to see how crap it was :p

And aye, dubbing, eugh. Get subtitles on.

A Hollywood version would probably suck (a la The Wickerman)

However I'm sure a competant, angry indie director could handlel it well. After all, I would not say the themes explored could not be extrapolated to US society.

let's face it, Friday night you have come to see a film and relax after a long week, you don't want to have to struggle to keep up with the subtitles.

I've never felt that way. Honestly. I find watching a foreign film with subtitles relaxing.

Regarding dubbing versus subtitles... On the whole, I definitely prefer subtitles. I shudder to imagine a dubbed version of Pan's Labyrinth, for example. And the dubbing of US TV series in French is awful. I once tried to watch an episode of DS9 dubbed in French, and you imagine the "voice actors" reading their scripts, with very little tone. Plus, they were speaking in very formal and proper language, which didn't sound at all like the way people would actually talk.

The only time I've seen the merits of dubbing was after watching Battle Royale, first in subtitled version, then in dubbed version with a friend (because for some reason my laptop wouldn't play it with subtitles). The subtitled version was more enjoyable, but I did notice that the lines were shorter, and that some things were missing, in the subtitled version. The dubbed version sometimes made more sense.

We have lots of Foreign films here. just the ones that mostly get shown in the theater are Asian, because Asians tend to make better films then Europeans. more interesting, more violence, and special effects.

If your definition of a good film is just violence and special effects, we disagree on what makes a good film.

I find most "blockbusters" to be horribly boring, because they follow the same story patterns, they're predictable, and they focus on special effects rather than on a good story.

Most of the best films I've ever seen -the German film Good Bye Lenin!, for example- have very little special effects, but a very good and original story.

A good film is a work of art (which doesn't imply that it's not entertaining). Most blockbusters are just products, not art.


If you Europeans want us to stop fixing your movies then make better movies

Generally speaking, you don't fix them; you ruin them. And you usually keep the exact same story, same characters (with new, American names), same lines, same jokes, same everything; you just move it to a US setting.

How many European films have you seen?


USA-> Hong Kong-> South Korea -> Japan -> Taiwan -> India -> Thailand ->Rest of China -> Rest of Asia -> all of Europe -> Latin America -> Africa (count south Africa as part Europe though).


How many African films have you seen?

Becaust it is Not invented here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_invented_here)

Interesting concept.

Hollywood likes to bastardise the art of film.

Amen to that. And oh, how I despise it for it.

Most of the best films I've ever seen -the German film Good Bye Lenin!, for example- have very little special effects, but a very good and original story.

Goodbye Lenin! was a very good film indeed. It had a comedic undertone that I enjoyed a lot and the lenghts those kids go to keep their mother oblivious to the fall of the Berlin Wall were hilarious. And what about the girl working at the Burger King or the reaction the mother has, after waking up from her coma, to see the Coca-Cola billboard? Fantastic.:D

I think it's more a case of Hollywood going for what works. Much like how they love remaking 20+ year old movies and doing endless sequels.
Foreign movie becomes hugely popular in it's own country (or indeed worldwide) = must have something going for it. Therefore buying the script to it is a better investment of the $100+ million Hollywood is going to spend on a movie than risking it on a unknown.
US market is still by far the biggest for US films. eg. To date Iron Man has grossed $US50Million world-wide - and $US200Million in the US.
With those figures, of course you're going to make a movie that appeals to your biggest market share.
It's solely about money. Always has been.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UhHhXukovMU
there is a reason euro cinema is not watched here stuff like the above is.

I said it was not as good as US and Asian cinema.

South African cinema gets grouped with European because the stuff before Apartied ended really should not be considered African.

It's your personal opinion that it's not as good.

South African cinema certainly doesn't get grouped with European cinema, at least not in film schools: you know, where people study film...


Hey, not all of us think there's anything wrong with European movies.

And, yeah, I don't get grouping South Africa in with Europe either.

That's why my post wasn't directed at "all of us".

We have lots of Foreign films here. just the ones that mostly get shown in the theater are Asian, because Asians tend to make better films then Europeans. more interesting, more violence, and special effects.
Aye, there's the problem. European films are usually stories about peoples' lives. Quite slowly paced, actually interesting films which don't get bought by morons because the main character doesn't carry an M16, and resolves disputes by trying to talk it out instead of shooting people in the face.

Let's put it this way - you make Rambo films. We make Goodbye, Lenin!. I know which I prefer.

Dubs, mainly, are always awful. That´s what´s sad. Try watching a Disney cartoon movie in Spanish. It´ll make you cringe. Nothing more horrible than listening to Timon and Pumba from The Lion King, in Spanish.

*shudders*

Maybe in Spanish from Spain. In Mexican spanish they are hillarious.

Dubbing can vary a lot. There are some cartoons who are actually improved with dubbing.

The mexican version of the Samurai Pizza Cats, The Jungle Book and Top Cat, are way better than the original ones.

Hollywood likes to bastardise the art of film.

You say bastardize I say add car chases, gun fights, and remove pointless dialog. basically make the film interesting.

Maybe in Spanish from Spain. In Mexican spanish they are hillarious.

Dubbing can vary a lot. There are some cartoons who are actually improved with dubbing.

The mexican version of the Samurai Pizza Cats, The Jungle Book and Top Cat, are way better than the original ones.

The Simpsons, in Mexican Spanish is hilarious. But that's about it.

You say bastardize I say add car chases, gun fights, and remove pointless dialog. basically make the film interesting.

If character interaction is 'boring', and gun fights and car chases are required to 'make the film interesting'... I think I'll take the 'boring' movie, thanks.

Isn't "Titanic" still the highest grossing movie (US domestic, at least) of all time? Apparently, you might not be right on the money. Or did I miss some car chases and gun battles?

Goodbye Lenin! was a very good film indeed. It had a comedic undertone that I enjoyed a lot and the lenghts those kids go to keep their mother oblivious to the fall of the Berlin Wall were hilarious. And what about the girl working at the Burger King or the reaction the mother has, after waking up from her coma, to see the Coca-Cola billboard? Fantastic.:D

It managed to be humourous and serious at the same time. The whole thing was very well done.

You say bastardize I say add car chases, gun fights, and remove pointless dialog. basically make the film interesting.

I call that taking away what's interesting and making the film boring. To each their own... I don't see the appeal of films that ask you to turn your brain off and soak in the kinds of repetitive scenes that you've seen a thousand times already other boring action films.

Aye, there's the problem. European films are usually stories about peoples' lives. Quite slowly paced, actually interesting films which don't get bought by morons because the main character doesn't carry an M16, and resolves disputes by trying to talk it out instead of shooting people in the face.

Let's put it this way - you make Rambo films. We make Goodbye, Lenin!. I know which I prefer.

That's pretty selective. You make Kevin and Perry Go Large, America makes Annie Hall.

If character interaction is 'boring', and gun fights and car chases are required to 'make the film interesting'... I think I'll take the 'boring' movie, thanks.

Isn't "Titanic" still the highest grossing movie (US domestic, at least) of all time? Apparently, you might not be right on the money. Or did I miss some car chases and gun battles?

well, there were several chases around the car and one person getting banged in the car... :p

Dubbing looks awful;
you mean Dubbing Sounds Awful.

Those are the reasons for foreign language films. Why they remake films that are already in English is a little less clear. To remove cultural references that may be lost on the Average viewer and to put in cultrual references that the targetted viewer will 'get'.

Dubbing can vary a lot. There are some cartoons who are actually improved with dubbing. depends on the voice actors, dubbing studio, and the care they take.

I remember some early dubs of Macross, Galaxy Express 999, and others that still make me shudder.

Glad to hear it.

It should be noted, though, that it would be exceedingly difficult to do remakes of those films, setting the stories in the US. Which makes it a choice between showing the original versions of very successful films (in these specific cases), or not showing them in any way at all.

The above made me snort, no offense intended. There are movies that take place in many settings other than the English speaking nation where everybody speaks English in American films. Offhand these include Chocolat, set in a small French village, Jakob the Liar, set in a Jewish ghetto in Poland during the Holocaust, and Forbidden Empire, set in ancient China.

The above made me snort, no offense intended. There are movies that take place in many settings other than the English speaking nation where everybody speaks English in American films. Offhand these include Chocolat, set in a small French village, Jakob the Liar, set in a Jewish ghetto in Poland during the Holocaust, and Forbidden Empire, set in ancient China.

I never said or implied the opposite. You missed my point.

I never said or implied the opposite. You missed my point.

Please elucidate your point then.

You say bastardize I say add car chases, gun fights, and remove pointless dialog. basically make the film interesting.

Car chases and gun fights are boring if they go on too long. And I like to be able to identify with the characters. That is what dialog is for. You know, telling the story, showing you things about the characters.

Go watch La Reine Margot (I think I spelled it right). There is no way you can see that and say that Europeans are bad at making movies. Otherwise you'd have to be insane.

The Simpsons, in Mexican Spanish is hilarious. But that's about it.

Ah, I see that you've never seen Golden Boy in English. Kintaro's voice is hilarious and makes it so much more funny.

you mean Dubbing Sounds Awful.
It also looks awful. It's painful and very distracting to see the mouths moving totally out-of-sync with the words coming out.
I much prefer dubbing for that reason alone.

Please elucidate your point then.

I never implied that there were no US films set outside the US. My point was dealing with US films which are remakes of other countries' films, setting the exact same story and moving it to a US setting. I was wondering why this is done. You somehow responded to an imaginary point which I had never raised in the first place.

Clear now?

Car chases and gun fights are boring if they go on too long. And I like to be able to identify with the characters. That is what dialog is for. You know, telling the story, showing you things about the characters.

Go watch La Reine Margot (I think I spelled it right). There is no way you can see that and say that Europeans are bad at making movies. Otherwise you'd have to be insane.

well you intermix the gun fights and car chases with sex. Europe has gotten the sex scenes right(sometimes they come out better). and there are some good Euro films like Brotherhood of the wolf(cant spell the French name not going to try).

and there are some good Euro films like Brotherhood of the wolf(cant spell the French name not going to try).

Le Pacte des loups. I saw it in the cinema when it came out. It was okayish, but I wouldn't call it a particularly good film.

Speaking of French films, the biggest hit here recently has been Bienvenue chez les Ch'tis!. It surprised everyone by rocketing to the position of most successful French film ever in France, dethroning La Grande vadrouille, which had held that distinction since the 1960s.

Le Pacte des loups. I saw it in the cinema when it came out. It was okayish, but I wouldn't call it a particularly good film.

If you compare it to Christophe Gans's other mainstream film it looks a lot better...


I would say it is more of a fun film than a good film. I liked it though, I thought it had a fantastic visual style even if it was a bit adolescent and shallow.

Also, it had Vincent Cassel in it. Any film with him in is at least bearable...

... Except the Ocean's film and Joan of Arc of course. :)

Le Pacte des loups. I saw it in the cinema when it came out. It was okayish, but I wouldn't call it a particularly good film.

Speaking of French films, the biggest hit here recently has been Bienvenue chez les Ch'tis!. It surprised everyone by rocketing to the position of most successful French film ever in France, dethroning La Grande vadrouille, which had held that distinction since the 1960s.

Are you kidding Le Pacte des loups is perhaps one of the best French films ever made.

I didnt like Bienvenue chez les Ch'tis! (Gf made me watch it, why do I ever date a arts major I don't know) I was not impressed.
I kept hoping the niceness was going to be a trick by the locals and they were planning to eat him or something. But no such luck. The only time the locals begin to act remotely crazy is when the main guys wife visits.

Are you kidding Le Pacte des loups is perhaps one of the best French films ever made.

Meh. It was okayish.


I didnt like Bienvenue chez les Ch'tis! (Gf made me watch it, why do I ever date a arts major I don't know) I was not impressed.
I kept hoping the niceness was going to be a trick by the locals and they were planning to eat him or something. But no such luck. The only time the locals begin to act remotely crazy is when the main guys wife visits.

Hehe... That was one of the best scenes, yes.

Bienvenue chez les Ch'tis was intended mainly for a French audience, I think. You probably have to be able to relate to "la province" in some way (I'm speaking as a Parisian here), or at least have been there, for the film to be meaningful to you. It's supposed to be specifically northern and quintessentially French at the same time. Although I don't know what most foreigners think when they watch it.

I liked it (though I wouldn't be able to explain why), but it's far from being one of the best films I've seen.


I would say it is more of a fun film than a good film.

*nods*


I thought it had a fantastic visual style


Hmm. I suppose it did. I'd have to rewatch it one day.

well you intermix the gun fights and car chases with sex. Europe has gotten the sex scenes right(sometimes they come out better). and there are some good Euro films like Brotherhood of the wolf(cant spell the French name not going to try).

Please tell me you're being sarcastic. Not that I oppose sex scenes.

Meh. It was okayish.

AGRRRH it was the greatest accomplishment of French film in the last 20 years.

Hehe... That was one of the best scenes, yes.

Bienvenue chez les Ch'tis was intended mainly for a French audience, I think. You probably have to be able to relate to "la province" in some way (I'm speaking as a Parisian here), or at least have been there, for the film to be meaningful to you. It's supposed to be specifically northern and quintessentially French at the same time. Although I don't know what most foreigners think when they watch it.

Gf loved it, but she is French.
And I do admit there have been a lot weirder films from France she has made me watch.

I never implied that there were no US films set outside the US. My point was dealing with US films which are remakes of other countries' films, setting the exact same story and moving it to a US setting. I was wondering why this is done. You somehow responded to an imaginary point which I had never raised in the first place.

Clear now?

It is clearer, but remakes of films that take place outside of the US are possible as well. You said it was a choice between the originals or not showing them at all. You left out the choice of keeping the setting outside the US, make everyone speak English, and using American actors.

AGRRRH it was the greatest accomplishment of French film in the last 20 years.

Nope, not even close.
By your criteria the crappiest Bond film is better than Citizen Kane...

Nope, not even close.
By your criteria the crappiest Bond film is better than Citizen Kane...

correct

correct

Okay. It's official.

greed and death has really, really shitty taste.

Now that this has been completely ascertained, we can all move on with our lives.

AGRRRH it was the greatest accomplishment of French film in the last 20 years.

Hardly. But then, I suppose it was exported because it suited the tastes of a wide US audience...


Gf loved it, but she is French.
And I do admit there have been a lot weirder films from France she has made me watch.

Such as? Out of curiosity...

It is clearer, but remakes of films that take place outside of the US are possible as well. You said it was a choice between the originals or not showing them at all. You left out the choice of keeping the setting outside the US, make everyone speak English, and using American actors.

Heh. That's possible, yes, but would be even sillier. :p

Heh. That's possible, yes, but would be even sillier. :p

As if the inherent silliness could stop us from doing it. ;)

Hardly. But then, I suppose it was exported because it suited the tastes of a wide US audience...



Such as? Out of curiosity...




Older black and white one called "An Andalusian Dog"
As soon as she gets back from her Summer in France I will ask her some of the more recent ones.


Oh before i forget "Society of the Spectacle "

Speaking of French cinema...

Unusual French film unexpectedly wins top Cannes prize (http://uk.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUKN2252964520080525?feedType=RSS&feedName=entertainmentNews)

http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/223/53421976xw4.jpg
The teenage actors celebrate a prize they hadn't expected.


Critics hailed the first French victory at the Cannes film festival for 21 years, after the acclaimed classroom drama "Entre Les Murs" (The Class) won the Palme d'Or for best picture late on Sunday.

The triumph marked another high point for French cinema, which has already celebrated a rare best actress Oscar for Marion Cotillard and a home-made box office hit "Bienvenue Chez Les Ch'tis", seen by about 20 million people.

[...] "The Class" is a naturalistic portrayal of a tough Parisian high school where a teacher battles to maintain discipline, and touches on hot issues in France such as overcrowded classes and immigrant youth, although the film is not overtly political.

The last-minute entry, shown at the very end of the competition, captivated audiences.

[...] Director Laurent Cantet said his cast of young actors was moved when they watched the film for the first time.

"I think they felt that the film talked about them, about their world and they had the feeling that they'd done something important," he told Reuters before jury head Sean Penn awarded the Palme d'Or to what he called "an extraordinary film".

The jury's choices on the final night were mostly popular.

Benicio del Toro won best actor for his portrayal of Argentine revolutionary Ernesto "Che" Guevara in Steven Soderbergh's film and the best actress award went to Sandra Corveloni in the Brazilian drama "Linha de Passe".

The Grand Prix runner-up prize went to Italy's "Gomorra" (Gomorrah), Matteo Garrone's hard-hitting film about the camorra Naples crime network, and Turkey's Nuri Bilge Ceylan won best director for "Three Monkeys", a dark tale of family secrets.


(link (http://uk.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUKN2252964520080526))


Flush with glory but shrugging off stardom for now, the teenage actors who triumphed at the Cannes film festival came back to school on Monday to a hero's welcome.

The amateur cast of classroom drama "Entre les Murs" (The Class), crowded the stage in Cannes when their film won the top award on Sunday, sharing the limelight with the likes of Robert De Niro, Sean Penn and Catherine Deneuve.

After an overnight bus from the French Riviera, they arrived back to their inner city school on the fringes of Paris on Monday afternoon to be mobbed by schoolmates and reporters.

"I'm so excited, there are so many people. It's bizarre," said young actor Franck Keita as he stepped off the coach to huge cheers and applause.

Teachers and students waved from classroom windows as a crush of television crews and balloon-carrying fans temporarily blocked the busy street where the documentary-style film about life in a tough Paris school was shot last summer.

"We knew there would be a prize when (the judges) asked the students to stay for the awards ceremony, but no one expected the Palme d'Or," said school principal Jean-Claude Defaux, who applauded the film for its realism.

It was the first time a French film had won Cannes' coveted top prize in 21 years, and came at a time when the problems in the country's often crowded classrooms have been highlighted by massive teacher and student protests.

Hailed as an insider's look at France's difficult "priority education zones", or ZEP, the film touches on many of the issues shaking modern French society, including immigration, ethnic integration and scholastic under-achievement.


(link (http://uk.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUKL2656834820080526))

Finally saw the original Dark Water.

and yes, it was better than the American version. tho I thought the American ending fit better than the Japanese one.

Speaking of French cinema...

French film unexpectedly wins top Cannes prize





My Gf is going to make me watch many of these. Of well at least the sex will be good as we get in to yet another France Vs US argument.

Ethnocentrism. Although they (the average american citizen) will deny that.



Not just France, mostly everyone else in the world. However, I prefer to watch foreign movies with subtitles than dubbed.



Because they want to see familiar faces, and people talking in english. Just try to watch in horror "Vanilla Sky" (Abre los ojos). They don't want to experience things through the eyes and views of foreigners, but according to the "american" view. Then again, a little dose of patriotism, conformism, ethnocentrism, all mixed together. I don't think the american public, at large, is interested at all in multicultural exchange.

Did you know that the first offer for Harry Potter included a version where Harry came from Minnesotta and was a Twins fan?

Why? :confused::(

Sadly a QFT. And yes, subtitles are superior to dubbing.

In Manchester they are trying to steal the title of Britain's second city. In the Midlands they know it is Birmingham.

No, no, no, no, no...

It is London that is Britain's second city ;)


(but nice sig anyway :))

What's wrong with dubbing films? The rest of the world has been doing it for decades...

Dubbing is terrible.

I do not know why people go for it.

Except in Japan, where the people who do voice-dubbing are seen as actors in every respect, dubbers are rarely as good at acting as the original actor. And I personally would rather hear the original actor's voice and intonations and read subtitles, if I am watching a movie in a language I don't understand.

For the record, while I enjoy Japanese films, and Russian cinema, I prefer Hollywood films to all other cinema.

I'd watch more foreign films if they made more films with lots of battle scenes- from ancient warfare all the way up to WWII.

Off the top of my head I can't think of any foreign films that have big battles...I'm sure there must be. Don't you foreigners watch war movies?

Okay. It's official.

greed and death has really, really shitty taste.

Now that this has been completely ascertained, we can all move on with our lives.And there I was thinking he was only trolling...

I'd watch more foreign films if they made more films with lots of battle scenes- from ancient warfare all the way up to WWII.

Off the top of my head I can't think of any foreign films that have big battles...I'm sure there must be. Don't you foreigners watch war movies?So you've seen The Myth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_%28film%29), then.

So you've seen The Myth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_%28film%29), then.

Haven't seen or heard of that one.

But

*smacks self*

I totally forgot about Chinese/Korean/Japanese films... I was reading over the last few pages which were all about French films.

Actually, now that I think about it a bit more, there are some Polish movies I want to see, like With Fire and Sword and The Deluge. I want to see that movie about Ghengis Khan called Mongol coming out. I believe it was originally made in...Russia?

Some articles & opinions:
http://www.lofficier.com/wgaarticle.htm
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/1996_jan-dec/04/04-12-96tdc/04-12-96d05-013.htm
http://www.karlhungus.com/2007/10/new-low-for-american-remakes.html

Some articles & opinions:
http://www.lofficier.com/wgaarticle.htm
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/1996_jan-dec/04/04-12-96tdc/04-12-96d05-013.htm
http://www.karlhungus.com/2007/10/new-low-for-american-remakes.html

Depressing. TV is much the same. They even added on "An American workplace" to the "The Office", lest anyone confuse it with the original and run away screaming at the thought of watching Foriegn folk, with their weird teeth and strange accents......

Korean


Korean Films at first seem great. all the action and violence of an American film with a deep meaning. then after watching 20 of them you realize sad ending where the hero his friends and family die don't make a film deep when every film maker in Korea does it.

I'd watch more foreign films if they made more films with lots of battle scenes- from ancient warfare all the way up to WWII.

Off the top of my head I can't think of any foreign films that have big battles...I'm sure there must be. Don't you foreigners watch war movies?

Hero?

Nightwatch? (and, of course, Daywatch).

Asoka?


Never fall into the trap of assuming that, because you can't see it, it ain't there.

And there I was thinking he was only trolling...

I was trying to hold out a little hope, but in vain, it would seem.

there are a few , Akira is also coming out with a remake.

You make Velka Morava sad :(

You make Velka Morava sad :(

It is live action and Set in new York City.

Goodbye Lenin! was a very good film indeed. It had a comedic undertone that I enjoyed a lot and the lenghts those kids go to keep their mother oblivious to the fall of the Berlin Wall were hilarious. And what about the girl working at the Burger King or the reaction the mother has, after waking up from her coma, to see the Coca-Cola billboard? Fantastic.:D

It's even more hilarious if you can get the injokes. As the little brother and sister watching east-germany cartoons while living in western germany.

It is live action and Set in new York City.

Now Velka Morava is double sad...

:( :(

It is live action and Set in new York City.

There is also going to be a remake of the Passion of Christ for American audiences - in English and set in New Jersey with plenty of guns and car chases.

There is also going to be a remake of the Passion of Christ for American audiences - in English and set in New Jersey with plenty of guns and car chases.

I was being serious
[quote]
Akira is expected to be developed into two live action films with the first scheduled for a summer 2009 release.[4][5][6] Warner Bros. and Appian Way will adapt the two movies from the manga. The first film is expected to be an adaptation of the first three volumes. The second film may cover the last three volumes. Ruairi Robinson is directing in his feature film debut. He was nominated for a short film Oscar in 2002 for Fifty Percent Grey. Gary Whitta is writing the script. Andrew Lazar, Leonardo DiCaprio, and Jennifer Davisson will produce the film. The film is set in New Manhattan, a city rebuilt by Japanese money after being destroyed 31 years ago. No announcement has been made regarding the cast, although it is reported that DiCaprio and Joseph Gordon-Levitt will be playing the lead roles of Kaneda and Tetsuo, respectively.[7][quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akira_%282009_film%29#Live_action_film

set for summer 2009.

though technically not a full remake sense it is coming from the manga. i heard if you get past it being white people and in Yew York City it will be closer to the manga then the anime movie.


better link
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1134795/

Don't you foreigners watch war movies?

France has made some very good films about life during the Occupation. For example, La Grande Vadrouille (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Grande_Vadrouille) or Effroyables Jardins (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effroyables_Jardins).

France has made some very good films about life during the Occupation. For example, La Grande Vadrouille (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Grande_Vadrouille) or Effroyables Jardins (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effroyables_Jardins).

didn't they cut out half the first film to show it in Germany ?

the second film was only 100 minutes long.

Better films would have dealt more with the Americans coming saving them and less with the resistance.

Don't you foreigners watch war movies?
Yeah, they're just a bit more bi-partisan than 'Tom Hanks saves Europe's ass."

Depressing. TV is much the same. They even added on "An American workplace" to the "The Office", lest anyone confuse it with the original and run away screaming at the thought of watching Foriegn folk, with their weird teeth and strange accents......
I think that's a bit unfair; they are both called The Office, and I've mistakenly started watching an ep of the UK version instead of the US one before. Besides, the US version is miles better than the UK one.

Moreover, US television in the past few years, especially drama, has kicked ass. The Wire, Sopranos, Taken, X-Files, Arrested Development, Oz, Battlestar Galactica, The US Office, Fishing With John, It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia, Deadwood, Dexter, Six Feet Under...

Some great stuff, including The Wire; possibly the greatest television show ever made.

Yeah, they're just a bit more bi-partisan than 'Tom Hanks saves Europe's ass."



which one was that ??? the only one I can think of is tom hanks saves another American's ass to send him home to his mom.

as for bipartisan didn't they have to cut 30 minutes out of La Grande Vadrouille non french version, for fear enraged Germans invading again?

which one was that ???
It was more a comment on how US war films tend to depict war in a grander, more noble light than European ones.

Though, obviously, there are exceptions on both sides, and it's not as if the US is alone in this; a huge amount of Asian films at the moment depict war, or at least sanctioned violence, in a noble fashion.

It's even more hilarious if you can get the injokes. As the little brother and sister watching east-germany cartoons while living in western germany.

Yes, the jokes are hilarious. One thing I absolutely loved was when the son brings the choir boys to sing one of the hyms of East-Germany to the mother. She looked so pleased. And then he has to pay them for it! I think I might rent it tonight. I saw it about 4 years ago.

Haven't seen or heard of that one.

But

*smacks self*

I totally forgot about Chinese/Korean/Japanese films... I was reading over the last few pages which were all about French films.

After watching a film about the life of a newborn piece of poo, you can be sure I'm staying away from Korean films for a while.:p

It was more a comment on how US war films tend to depict war in a grander, more noble light than European ones.

Though, obviously, there are exceptions on both sides, and it's not as if the US is alone in this; a huge amount of Asian films at the moment depict war, or at least sanctioned violence, in a noble fashion.

Saving Private Ryan (the one with tom hanks) was meant to be an Anti war movie. Given the majority of Audiences didn't take it that way, which is why Jarhead was made.

I guess everyone saying "Ju-on was awesome, The Grudge sucked" doesn't buy into auteur theory, considering that the same person directed both movies.

I guess everyone saying "Ju-on was awesome, The Grudge sucked" doesn't buy into auteur theory, considering that the same person directed both movies.

But the storyline for ¨Juon¨ was altered for ¨The Grudge¨. The English version is about just one character while the original, Japanese version was a collection of stories. It might´ve been the same director, but the movies were altered to suit an audience taste. I prefer ¨Juon¨ by far.

didn't they cut out half the first film to show it in Germany ?

No idea.

Germany was once very touch about depictions of Nazis. There's a Star Trek episode from the 60s which shows an alien culture inspired by Nazism; that episode has never been shown in Germany.


the second film was only 100 minutes long.

So? It was a great film.


Better films would have dealt more with the Americans coming saving them and less with the resistance.

I'm assuming you're being sarcastic, but people on NSG say such stupid things sometimes that I can never be sure...

I guess everyone saying "Ju-on was awesome, The Grudge sucked" doesn't buy into auteur theory, considering that the same person directed both movies.

But they are very duifferent products. Personally, I like both equally - depending on my mood. I think Ju-on creates a better 'world', but I think "The Grudge" tells the story better. It depends on if I want to feel 'immersed', or have a story told to me.

Some people love that world of immersion - and, for them, "The Grudge" really is the inferior version.