NationStates Jolt Archive

Greed? Overpopulation? Pollution. Oh no, absolutely not.

It's the fatties (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7404268.stm)!

Obese people are contributing to the world food crisis and climate change, experts say.

The London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine calculated the obese consume 18% more calories than average.

They are also responsible for using more fuel, which has an environmental impact and drives up food prices as transport and agriculture both use oil.

The result is that the poor struggle to afford food and greenhouse gas emissions rise, the Lancet reported.

It comes as the World Health Organization predicts the obese population will double by 2015 to 700m.

In the UK, nearly a quarter of adults are classed obese, twice as many as there were in the 1980s.

The team found that obese people require 1,680 daily calories to sustain normal energy and another 1,280 to maintain daily activities - a fifth more than normal.

The higher consumption of food has a two-fold effect, researchers said.

First of all the increasing demand for food, drives up production.

This means that agricultural processes are using more oil to meet demand, which contributes to the rising cost of fuel.

The cost of fuel is then passed on in the cost of food, making it more difficult for poorer areas to afford it.

Prices

What is more, the researchers said obese people are likely to rely on transport more and put more strain on that transport because of their mass, which again drives up prices and usage.

But the researchers said there was a solution.

Phil Edwards, who co-authored the article, said: "Urban transport policies that promote walking and cycling would reduce food prices by reducing the global demand for oil and promotion of a normal weight.

And they added: "Decreased car use would reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

"Transport and food policy and the importance of sustainable transport must not be overlooked."

But Dr David Haslam, of the National Obesity Forum, said it was "stretching it a bit" to blame the obese in the way.

"Really, it is discriminatory towards obese people. They are an easy target at the moment, but I think the causes of climate change and rising food prices is much more complex."

Well, let 'em obese people get liposuction and use the oil you will get as fuel. :p

Another special interest group puts out a press release designed to capture media attention.

To blame the world's ills on obese people is to excuse the real problems, of which the greatest is, quite simply, corruption.

So to promote the anti-car, anti-oil agenda, which isn't necessarily a bad agenda, fixating on a 'news angle' is far easier than actually doing something concrete.

To provide context for my thoughts, I'm reading The Undercover Economist, I'd recommend it to anyone.

Naaa now we all know it's greed. People are greedy, companies are greedy, it's greed.

Another special interest group puts out a press release designed to capture media attention.

To blame the world's ills on obese people is to excuse the real problems, of which the greatest is, quite simply, corruption.

So to promote the anti-car, anti-oil agenda, which isn't necessarily a bad agenda, fixating on a 'news angle' is far easier than actually doing something concrete.

To provide context for my thoughts, I'm reading The Undercover Economist, I'd recommend it to anyone.

Honestly I'd say the biggest problem is overpopulation. There's about 4 billion excess people in this world right now. All draining resources, contributing pollution.

Honestly I'd say the biggest problem is overpopulation. There's about 4 billion excess people in this world right now. All draining resources, contributing pollution.

It's not the overpopulation per se, it's the excess 1 billion are enjoying and the rest encouraged to follow. :p

I blame the jews.

Honestly I'd say the biggest problem is overpopulation. There's about 4 billion excess people in this world right now. All draining resources, contributing pollution.

Well, I'll do my best to correct the problem...

http://i1.tinypic.com/o0o07q.gif

ohh yeah i hate fat people...seriously, go on a diet

Yep...Cause all fat people control the worlds Fuel Economy...

If theyd just put a leash on Big Oil and stop letting them exploit the system...

Well fat people contribute to the problems of the world but they are not the main cause. If we didn't have fat people in society then yes, food and oil consumption would lessen.

I've never been fat before and I fail to see how any could ever stand to be ... Or how they could ever get themselves into that kind of state.

obesedy = glutny, not greed. greed is when you could have sold your OS cd for $2.50 ea. but you charge $300 instead and then sell the manual separately. Greed = corruption. greed = Fair market value. LIES!!! I tell you LIES!!!!! fair market is for the rich. Not the middle guy struggleing to pay they rent, MOAAAAAA!!! give to me your money so that I can have a winter and summer home. I shall use all the oil I want and you puney ppl who make less can suffer. I sleep fine at night my AC is on full blast and I can't hear you. I will drive to the golf course in one of my three hummers and run your little cars over if you get in my way ah, ah , ah!!!!

I mean really is it any wonder we are where we are. all you have to do is look around.
very truly yours - General Nose Picker of the Middle digget 3rd Knuckle

Now we know who to feed the people-powered energy-centrals!

Rubbish.

ohh yeah i hate fat people...seriously, go on a diet

a diet? what's that?

Uh, no, it's Jews and foreigners. You should all know this by now.

Uh, no, it's Jews and foreigners. You should all know this by now.

you're a big meany.

Everyone knows it's the USA. They got it all: greed, fat people, jews, foreigners, Big Oil, etc.

Everyone knows who the real culprit is. Everyone but USA citizens, that is. :p

Haha, fatties.

Well fat people do have a diet, its just there diet consists of eating whatever they want.

People in general. :)

"The London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine"? Seriously? There's an entire school for that? I wouldn't trust any study that came out of there unless it was about pedicures and toe fungus in Tahiti.

"The London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine"? Seriously? There's an entire school for that? I wouldn't trust any study that came out of there unless it was about pedicures and toe fungus in Tahiti.
Don't be dissing my credentials! :mad:

Uh, no, it's Jews and foreigners. You should all know this by now.
All the brown ones really. Once I saw a brown one, and she tried to convince me she was just tanned, but nope, she was a brown one, I could tell.

We need to start using fat people as food and fuel.

I blame the jews.

Them damn j00z! And negroes! And pinkos!

We need to start using fat people as food and fuel.

Yes, use the fat to feed the starving and, if they get fat as well, off to the fatty slaughterhouse. Overpopulation will be less of a problem, too. Where do I stand in line? I'm nearly 200 lbs. worth of buffet. Who wants to eat me? :D

Yes, use the fat to feed the starving and, if they get fat as well, off to the fatty slaughterhouse. Overpopulation will be less of a problem, too. Where do I stand in line? I'm nearly 200 lbs. worth of buffet. Who wants to eat me? :D

Hmmm, breast or thigh, breast or thigh......

It be dem illegal aliens! Livin off welfare, rapin peoples, joinin gangs, smugglin drugs, diversificatin da country, dem damn illegals!

Just think of how much Soylent Green you could make from them.

It be dem illegal aliens! Livin off welfare, rapin peoples, joinin gangs, smugglin drugs, diversificatin da country, dem damn illegals!

Yon knaves hath robbed us of our occupations!

Yon knaves hath robbed us of our occupations!


Dey Took Our Jerbs!

Its not fat people, its communism.

Its not fat people, its Stalinism.

Fixed :D

Fixed :D


By 'Stalinism' I assume you mean working class power, they are after all the same thing.

By 'Stalinism' I assume you mean working class power, they are after all the same thing.

If you define "working class power" as "fascism in communist clothes" then yes.
OK, Stalin wasn't a fascist, but he wasn't a communist either, at least not in practice.

The London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine are full of shit.

End of.

If you define "working class power" as "fascism in communist clothes" then yes.

I do!
I am in fact referring to a Andaras post.

The cause of all the world´s ills is people. Oh, and Catta the Cat. Yeah, those are causes of the world´s ills.

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/solowookie.jpg

Rubbish.

Indeed. While technically correct (overweight people consume more resources on average, though even that study says only 20% more food) it crosses the line from what is a person's private business (their body) and their public business (responsibility.)

It also stinks of Blame the Victim.

==============

Don't be dissing my credentials! :mad:

You credentials are impeccable. So long as you're talking about pedicures or toe fungus in Tahiti. :p

==============

And to answer the thread title on a somewhat abstract note: the cause of the world's ills is our moral sense, our sense of right and wrong. If we did not see "ills" there would be none.

Don't be dissing my credentials! :mad:

Don't be mad just 'cause you didn't get into the London School of Folk Medicine and Viagra Research.

Dey Took Our Jerbs!

An old coworker of mine used to say that, and just thinking about her impression makes me crack up. :p

That was funny. The first time.

I beg to differ.

If you define "working class power" as "fascism in communist clothes" then yes.
OK, Stalin wasn't a fascist, but he wasn't a communist either, at least not in practice.
Fascism is capitalism, which is why in capitalist states all industry is controlled by politically-connected private individuals and giant corporations. In socialism, as with the leadership of comrade Stalin, the means of production are controlled by those who work them, the proletariat. The old 'Stalin was the fascist!!111' is usually used by post-91 disheartened 'socialists' (glorified social-democrats) to capitulate to bourgeois social and political norms and standards by saying ill of comrade Stalin.

The 'Left' and 'Right' are just two heads of the same bourgeois beast, they both support capitalism in varying degrees. The only real distinction is between Marxism-Leninism and all other propertied ideologies.

Women are the root of all evil...I thought everyone knew that? ;)

Women are the root of all evil...I thought everyone knew that? ;)

Ah, shut up, you!
:fluffle:

Ah, shut up, you!
:fluffle:

And so the cover up begins.....

Women are the root of all evil...I thought everyone knew that? ;)

http://www.onemorething.it/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/proof_that_girls_r_evil.jpg

Close......

And so the cover up begins.....

Oh yeah. It has begun...

Oh yeah. It has begun...

So if I dont wake up tomorrow im blaming those lady ninja assassins...and the whole of Nationstates is my witness...farewell cruel and female dominated world...the axis of power does indeed swing on a menstrual cycle...

So if I dont wake up tomorrow im blaming those lady ninja assassins...and the whole of Nationstates is my witness...farewell cruel and female dominated world...the axis of power does indeed swing on a menstrual cycle...

My cover up is loving. I´m not into killing, at least not with conventional methods...:D

My cover up is loving. I´m not into killing, at least not with conventional methods...:D

Cunning plan Dr Manicured Finger...but your plan will fail...men will snap out of being hypnotised by heaving breasts and see you for the manipulative free drink grabbing demons that you are!! ;)

Cunning plan Dr Manicured Finger...but your plan will fail...men will snap out of being hypnotised by heaving breasts and see you for the manipulative free drink grabbing demons that you are!! ;)

I resent being called a manipulative drink grabbing demon. I rather like being compared to a vampire. But do not fret, in time, you´ll be mine, Nurse Beeker.

I resent being called a manipulative drink grabbing demon. I rather like being compared to a vampire. But do not fret, in time, you´ll be mine, Nurse Beeker.

Ha...I am immune to you womens eyelash fluttering...your pouted lips...the way you look at me with those.......ah shit....

Ha...I am immune to you womens eyelash fluttering...your pouted lips...the way you look at me with those.......ah shit....

:D
My work here´s done.

:D
My work here´s done.

Take me to your leader ;)

Take me to your leader ;)

I am the leader.

I am the leader.

Then take me anywhere you like ;)

Then take me anywhere you like ;)

To the barracks with thee!!;)

To the barracks with thee!!;)

Now there's an offer I cant refuse...wanna share my bunk? ;)

On that note im off to bed...I know...you miss me already...:fluffle:

Now there's an offer I cant refuse...wanna share my bunk? ;)

On that note im off to bed...I know...you miss me already...:fluffle:

Lets share it.

Oh yes! I miss you deeply already!!:fluffle: :fluffle:

Lets share it.

Oh yes! I miss you deeply already!!:fluffle: :fluffle:

Night speak soon :cool:

Night speak soon :cool:

Oyasumi.

Oyasumi.

Nos Dda Blodwyn x

I beg to differ.
ah. you didn't find it funny the first time either. so why do you keep posting it? masochistic are you?

The London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine calculated the obese consume 18% more calories than average.
hmmmm...a study found that fat people eat more.
Obviously said study was paid for by the Center For Figuring Out Really Obvious Things.

ah. you didn't find it funny the first time either. so why do you keep posting it? masochistic are you?

I always find them funny. I think Nobel Hobos was stating that the LOL Cats I post aren´t funny anymore.

I always find them funny. I think Nobel Hobos was stating that the LOL Cats I post aren´t funny anymore.

There are only so many laughs you can get out of a cat that looks like Jabba the Hut.

Like I said. Funny the first time. Not the second time.

Perhaps you could just make more lolcats? I DO like a joke, some might even say it is my vice.

There are only so many laughs you can get out of a cat that looks like Jabba the Hut.

Like I said. Funny the first time. Not the second time.

Perhaps you could just make more lolcats? I DO like a joke, some might even say it is my vice.

I have made new cat pics. Perhaps I´ll post them here one of these days.

I blame the jews.

Why can't it be both? (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/41/76934548_98f9bf9ebd.jpg)

I honestly don't see why people think the planet is over-crowded.

We've got millions of acres of untouched or marginally touched land, we've got 70% of the Earth's surface as ocean that we can build on or under, we can build underground, we can build "skyscrapers" the size of mountains (or out of mountains for that matter), and through it all we can feed every last person.

We've got the technology now to feed, clothe, and house a population 3-4x what the planet currently has and if we can put industry and energy production into orbital facilities (especially if we can "beam" energy down from orbital solar collectors) where pollution and space are not concerns then we could support an even higher planetary population.

If we didn't care about the planet as it is we could probably build the planet up so badly, and especially if we had space-based industry to feed it, that the planet has a population of 100 billion.

Taking all that into consideration I honestly can't call a paltry 6.6b "overcrowded."

I blame the jews.

Well them being involved is kind of a given...

I honestly don't see why people think the planet is over-crowded.

We've got millions of acres of untouched or marginally touched land, we've got 70% of the Earth's surface as ocean that we can build on or under, we can build underground, we can build "skyscrapers" the size of mountains (or out of mountains for that matter), and through it all we can feed every last person.

We've got the technology now to feed, clothe, and house a population 3-4x what the planet currently has and if we can put industry and energy production into orbital facilities (especially if we can "beam" energy down from orbital solar collectors) where pollution and space are not concerns then we could support an even higher planetary population.

If we didn't care about the planet as it is we could probably build the planet up so badly, and especially if we had space-based industry to feed it, that the planet has a population of 100 billion.

Taking all that into consideration I honestly can't call a paltry 6.6b "overcrowded."

Nobody in their right mind would want to live on a shit hole planet like you describe.

Yes, lets just bulldoze every last forest, drain all the swamps, use every last inch of space for houses, factories, etc.

Or wait.

FUCK NO.

Less people= more space, less crowds, and more elbow room, less pollution, less waste. Sounds good to me.

Nobody in their right mind would want to live on a shit hole planet like you describe.

Yes, lets just bulldoze every last forest, drain all the swamps, use every last inch of space for houses, factories, etc.

Or wait.

FUCK NO.

Less people= more space, less crowds, and more elbow room, less pollution, less waste. Sounds good to me.

There are some economies of scale (mass production, mechanized farming etc) but I think Globalization shows that there is some upward limit to "bigger is better".

Yep, that's me ... agreeing with you. Weird huh?

Probably people that do these kinds of studies, and people that publish them, and people that read them, and people that...well, you know who you are!

Really, I wonder how many calories were wasted in performing this study.

Fascism is capitalism, which is why in capitalist states all industry is controlled by politically-connected private individuals and giant corporations. In socialism, as with the leadership of comrade Stalin, the means of production are controlled by those who work them, the proletariat. The old 'Stalin was the fascist!!111' is usually used by post-91 disheartened 'socialists' (glorified social-democrats) to capitulate to bourgeois social and political norms and standards by saying ill of comrade Stalin.

The 'Left' and 'Right' are just two heads of the same bourgeois beast, they both support capitalism in varying degrees. The only real distinction is between Marxism-Leninism and all other propertied ideologies.

OKay, a couple of things here...
1. You quoted me so I know you saw the white text, and thusly should realize that I was not serious about the fascism remark.

2. How is fascism capitalism?
a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market

Nobody in their right mind would want to live on a shit hole planet like you describe.

Yes, lets just bulldoze every last forest, drain all the swamps, use every last inch of space for houses, factories, etc.

Or wait.

FUCK NO.

Less people= more space, less crowds, and more elbow room, less pollution, less waste. Sounds good to me.

Puzzled atheists is not completely wrong, the world is currently about 70% inefficient, 6 billion is not a real problem if there wasn't so much waste, and although I might be wrong I still say corruption, widely enough interpreted to include special interests having undue influence on policy, is a major cause.

The worlds you both describe are not exclusive, we could easily have a cleaner, greener world that is still highly productive.

Closed markets, closed industries and closed countries are a disaster and if you look at the most closed countries, you also see the most corruption.

Protecting self-interest over the whole is a great incentive, ultimately it kind of works but that's both the problem and the solution - it's in everyone's self-interest to work together, that's why communism is a great theory, capitalism a great practicality but both could easily work together.

Planned economies, even where that means planning to make the most power to yourself only, simply doesn't work, whether that's capitalism or communism.

Ironically, the most selfish choice is sharing, no bad thing.

Nobody in their right mind would want to live on a shit hole planet like you describe.

Yes, lets just bulldoze every last forest, drain all the swamps, use every last inch of space for houses, factories, etc.

Or wait.

FUCK NO.

Less people= more space, less crowds, and more elbow room, less pollution, less waste. Sounds good to me.

#1 Bulldozing the forests would be rather stupid since the work as C02 and air pollution scrubbers.

#2 Draining swamps really wouldn't serve any good purpose as a lot of the land still wouldn't be good to build on. Oh, yeah, and they work to filter/scrub the air too.

#3 If we used every last inch of space on this planet, and mind you I mean cubic inch not square, we could probably fit a few trillion people.

As for your fewer people comment it doesn't necessarily follow and can go either way. Here's an example. If you get one grocery store per 1,000 people you get more automobile-based pollution if each one of those 1,000 people is widely spread out from the grocery store as opposed to if they're all within walking distance of it.

Same population, different space usage, different amounts of pollution produced, and different amounts of personal time, vehicle wear time, road wear time, and so on wasted. Still get all that elbow room of course, but elbow room doesn't pay for gas, or oil, or new brake pads, not that it'd pay for shoes you'd go through walking to the grocery store either.

As for the "shit hole planet like (I) described," the only "shit hole" is the 100+ billion population and I didn't describe it, I mentioned it in passing as a theoretical upper limit and, to be quite honest, I think it was low. Without doing the math, and to be honest I don't want to, we could probably shoe-horn half a trillion people into the planet. That'd be a "shit hole" for you.

20 billion with a sizable chunk of them living in "mega-scrapers" (think self-contained cities), all of the nastiest industry off-planet, and unlimited power (I can think of a few (hideously expensive) ways to do that with modern tech.) is a dream planet in comparison to half a trillion packed like sardines.

I'd say you have no imagination but that would be incorrect. Accusing you of having no vision would probably be more accurate.

Puzzled atheists is not completely wrong, the world is currently about 70% inefficient, 6 billion is not a real problem if there wasn't so much waste, and although I might be wrong I still say corruption, widely enough interpreted to include special interests having undue influence on policy, is a major cause.

The worlds you both describe are not exclusive, we could easily have a cleaner, greener world that is still highly productive.

Actually, the primary difference isn't so much between "cleaner/greener" and "highly productive" as it's between "I've got 100 acres of land all to myself" and "I've got a 3,000 cubic foot apartment."

A world that can comfortably support 20 billion people that I can envision would be very clean, very green, and quite productive. It would also, of necessity, have to be much more efficient than what we currently have.

If you want an idea of how I'm thinking get called Mutineer's Moon by David Weber. It's a sci-fi novel in which the moon is actually a spaceship that has a normal crew of 250,000 people and designed to support something like a 40-50% crew increase due to births. That's the general idea, though not on quite such a lavish scale.

I'm not thinking of the Asimov/Foundation or Lucas/Coruscant extremes of over-development by a long shot.

20 billion with a sizable chunk of them living in "mega-scrapers" (think self-contained cities)

I believe the proper term for what you are describing is "Arcology".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcology