NationStates Jolt Archive

I was just curious...

The thread about the poor guy bein shot by the fucktarded police prompted the question...

I got into an argument on the subject, i didnt expect allot of support, although there was more fire than i figured thered be...

I just find it odd that when the NYPD does the bastard thing, New York isnt trashed...But, some dumb fuck from MS does it, and the Entire state is blanket flamed...

Ive always said that weve come a long way, and that the shit that went on in our past history helped us get there, and become alot more progressive than alot of states in the matter, but, as of late, its starting to look like that hasnt happened afterall...from the previously mentioned issue, to the Obama vote...

I was just wondering how you perceive it...

I think your whole damn country is so inculcated with racism that it's impossible for a great many people in your state in particular to NOT be racist.

i dont think a state can be racist.

are there racists in your state? of course there are.

I think your whole damn country is so inculcated with racism that it's impossible for a great many people in your state in particular to NOT be racist.



Thats probably true, The Country was founded by Racist people, and thats a hard thing to escape from completely...

Im asking if its more than other US states though...

I always figured America as more a "we hate different people" :)

then again this is coming from the land terrorized with baby eating gypsies who have the ability to morph into human form!

There seems to be a discrepancy between the poll and the replies...


I already know the US as a whole is pretty racist...its a given, given our history...

I was asking if MS>US in the category...

Course, i was mostly idly trolling, cause i figured itd be full of flamebait...

When i tried to make a point of MS=US then i was flammed to death...

I thought Louisiana was racist too until I started learning about Huey Long.

If Louisiana can get off my list, I think Mississippi can get by.

I think your whole damn country is so inculcated with racism that it's impossible for a great many people in your state in particular to NOT be racist.I generally despise the US government's foreign policy and have used "american" as a synonym for stupid, embarrassing, and a great many other negatives on many occasions, but the country as a whole has a tendency to be less overtly racist than many european nations. the things the germans say about the turks, or british about south asians, or french about north africans, are just as appalling and at least as common as the systematic exploitation of african americans that occurs over here.

I agree, america sucks, but europe doesn't get a "get out of guilt free" ticket - in many respects they're much more shameless about their ethnocentrism than americans usually are. american racial politics is full of ugly, disgusting hate, but by and large the US has a better track record with immigration than many european nations do...which is sad, cause it's pretty bad. I believe it's now illegal to even ask someone's race in france because employment discrimination is so rampant - and studies show having british sounding surnames make you significantly more likely to be hired. europe loves rich white immigrants but it doesn't know how to handle large scale, poor, ethnic immigration in the way that the US has been managing for well over a century. (as an aside I think it's ludicrous how the whole mexican immigration wave is being handled, but europe has it's own problems)


---

and to respond to the OP, yes, Mississippi is pretty much the epicenter of racism in my mind. coming from quaker pennsylvania (ancestors of mine had stops on the underground railroad in their cellars) arkansas is pretty damn racist too, though. I have a friend who had a cross burned in her yard. the dorm where most international students on my campus live went into lock-down after the muslim students started getting death threats. my current love interest (another man) was telling how his ex was beaten with chains in front of the courthouse in his town for daring to bring his black boyfriend home. I'm not sure if the residents of Fouke Arkansas were more concerned with the fact it was a gay relationship or an interracial one...maybe in the 2000s it takes a combination of the two to earn public humiliation and torture. that's progress for ya...another few decades and maybe we'll be treated like fucking human beings. *shrug*

in arkansas we tend to say "thank god for mississippi" because it's the only reason we're the 49th at everything. I think racism might apply here, too - though oklahoma's laws about mexican immigrants could give either of our states a run for their money. (it's now a felony to knowingly shelter or transport illegal immigrants. least with them all moving to arkansas I get more chances to practice my spanish...)

The whole of the US is racist. There´s not much to say there.

I always figured America as more a "we hate different people" :)

then again this is coming from the land terrorized with baby eating gypsies who have the ability to morph into human form!haha, I was shocked when I visited europe and heard the way people talked about gypsies. I'd always gotten the impression they were kind of romanticized, but when I got on the ground in St. Petersburg our guides were totally ok with saying things like "just kick the gypsy children away when they try to rob you, do not have pity, they are not really hungry!" dayum. americans have blacks and mexicans, europeans have gypsies, turks, and africans...(and Basques and Chechnyans and Irish and Muslims in general...)

the british about south asians,

its not really the 80's anymore honey :p

also South Asia is Indian! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HJzy3WSYFM&feature=related)

its not really the 80's anymore honey :p

also South Asia is Indian! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HJzy3WSYFM&feature=related)everything I know about the UK I learned from Goodness Gracious Me and Little Britain. 90s...so...80s jokes hadn't worn out yet I guess.

edit: omg you posted GGM. you win at life.

europeans have gypsies, turks, and africans...(and Basques and Chechnyans and Irish and Muslims in general...)

don't forget Americans, other Europeans and most of all the members of their own culture group! :)

everything I know about the UK I learned from Goodness Gracious Me and Little Britain.

don't forget the regional issues! (http://youtube.com/watch?v=5BV8KfpE3BA&feature=related)

haha, I was shocked when I visited europe and heard the way people talked about gypsies. I'd always gotten the impression they were kind of romanticized, but when I got on the ground in St. Petersburg our guides were totally ok with saying things like "just kick the gypsy children away when they try to rob you, do not have pity, they are not really hungry!" dayum. americans have blacks and mexicans, europeans have gypsies, turks, and africans...(and Basques and Chechnyans and Irish and Muslims in general...)

The Basque are a problem solely of Spain. Get your sources right.

Do remember that Americans are terrorists and believe themselves to be the World Police. So yeah, we Europeans have gypsies, Turks and Africans, but these are more decent than one American tourist on vacation over here so...:rolleyes:

Short answer: Yes, I do.

Do remember that Americans are terrorists and believe themselves to be the World Police.

:eek: I say!

So yeah, we Europeans have gypsies, Turks and Africans, but these are more decent than one American tourist on vacation over here so...:rolleyes:

I don't know an American seems to be on par with a Dane IMHO, however those bloody Spaniards staying over there stealing our elderly with tacky property! :mad:

Sadly, Mississippi, and the South in general, is a caricature of racism for the rest of the country, and sometimes the world. But based on personal experience, it's not nearly as bad as the large cities that hide their racism behind political correctness.

Los Angeles, for example, is very strictly segregated, with color and class lines quite obvious as you move from one neighborhood to the next. Being the wrong color or type in the wrong neighborhood can get you killed. It's unspoken but agreed upon that certain jobs go to certain people, and no one else. I've worked in both the legal and entertainment industries, and the breakdown is always the same: latino men work janitorial, black women as secretaries, Jewish men the lawyers and executives (with about 25% women, of those one or 2 minorities, NO MORE). The straight white men and lesbians work the entertainment union jobs (carpentry, lighting, etc.), gay men of all colors work fashion and design, and 1/2 of every IT department is Asian men. Try to get a job in an area not within your group ... next to impossible. They all live in different areas of the city, shop and socialize apart, worship apart, and that never, ever changes.

I haven't been to Europe or the South since I was a child, but from what I have heard, there is more mixing on a daily basis than in L.A. or NYC. What's worse, blatant name-calling and vociferious hatred, or quiet, institutionalized racism behind a smile? I don't know ...

What's worse, blatant name-calling and vociferious hatred, or quiet, institutionalized racism behind a smile? I don't know ...

I think thats a good point...I would never say that im completely unracist, because i use every racial slur imaginable...

Its just that i use them indiscriminately regardless of which group it is...

My friends, of all colors, are the same way...

Ive always said that im an Equal Oppurtunity Racist...

As in, I think everyone sucks, no race of people hasnt ever done anything wrong in their past, and the task therefore, is to move beyond it, and except it...

I dream of a day when a black and a white man meet, and one says "Hey, whats up my Cracka?" and the other replies "Not much Nigga, you?" lol...

http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/locked.gif

http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/locked.gif

Why? it was a legitimate question...and although there have been heated comments...

I detect no actual Flamming....

Why? it was a legitimate question...and although there have been heated comments...

I detect no actual Flamming....

Call it a prediction.

I'm no mod, but the way things are progressing, I'd lock it. It's a meltdown in progress.

Call it a prediction.

I'm no mod, but the way things are progressing, I'd lock it. It's a meltdown in progress.

Possibly, it was actually interesting the way it started to progress...It was more America vs Europe than MS vs US, which is what i expected...And i fully expected to be attacked directly for it, like in the thread i referenced in the beginning...

It strangely didnt really happen that way...

As a fellow Southerner, I certainly understand how it feels to be unfairly stereotyped. I must admit that I do associate Mississippi somewhat with racism, but I think many people fail to realize how much things have changed in many parts of the South, and would never judge someone simply because they were from a certain state. It certainly still has many problems, but most people have moved on, pretty much everyone I've ever met.

The South is a very complex place with different groups of people, many who grew up hearing discriminatory language from everyone around them. I'll never forget sitting in a restaurant across from an older white man wearing a Confederate flag shirt while eating dinner with who appeared to be his two biracial granddaughters. Is he a racist? What should one make of that? I tend to believe that peoples hearts win over beliefs of institutionalized racism.

And it is correct that many large Northern and Western Cities have had similar if not worse histories of racism, and those wounds continue to plague those cities. Now living in Chicago, the city is still largely racially segregated by neighborhoods, and blockbusting was used all over Chicago. LA kept Asians from buying properties in certain areas for a long time. Very few areas of this country are unscathed from past racism.

ps. I'm from Kentucky, so count your blessings. I'm stereotyped as racist, dumb, and incestuous. :p

The Basque are a problem solely of Spain. Get your sources right.

Do remember that Americans are terrorists and believe themselves to be the World Police. So yeah, we Europeans have gypsies, Turks and Africans, but these are more decent than one American tourist on vacation over here so...:rolleyes:

Completely idiotic for you to say that. Racism is prevalent everywhere. I haven't seen a country yet that isn't racist in it's own way.

I think your whole damn country is so inculcated with racism that it's impossible for a great many people in your state in particular to NOT be racist.


Pot calling the kettle black eh?

:eek: I say!



I don't know an American seems to be on par with a Dane IMHO, however those bloody Spaniards staying over there stealing our elderly with tacky property! :mad:

The new Conquista.

I always figured America as more a "we hate different people" :)

then again this is coming from the land terrorized with baby eating gypsies who have the ability to morph into human form!

Nononono. The jews are the ones who shapeshift.

I always figured America as more a "we hate different people" :)

then again this is coming from the land terrorized with baby eating gypsies who have the ability to morph into human form!

More fitting for Europe really.

i dont think a state can be racist.

are there racists in your state? of course there are.

The question is, is there a disproportionate number of racists in Mississippi compared to other states of it's size.

The whole of the US is racist. There´s not much to say there.

Care to back that up with some proof?

haha, I was shocked when I visited europe and heard the way people talked about gypsies. I'd always gotten the impression they were kind of romanticized, but when I got on the ground in St. Petersburg our guides were totally ok with saying things like "just kick the gypsy children away when they try to rob you, do not have pity, they are not really hungry!" dayum. americans have blacks and mexicans, europeans have gypsies, turks, and africans...(and Basques and Chechnyans and Irish and Muslims in general...)

Technically the word "gypsy" is a racial slur (as is the word gyp as in "I was gyped."). The correct term is Rom, or Romany.

The Basque are a problem solely of Spain. Get your sources right.I don't see as I implied anywhere that there were Basques outside of Spain, but I'll accept that you're dead set on stereotyping me as completely ignorant. I like that you call them a problem, by the way. I could write a few pages about how interesting their language is (being not of the indo-european language family and all) and talk about their mythology and so on, but I'm an american and we're not supposed to know things like that. I'll demure in hopes of keeping your worldview intact. I'm reasonably sure they're largely concentrated in the northeastern part of the country, around Navarra, (I actually did wiki that, so I could spell it, I wasn't sure as the English and Spanish spellings differ and I'm not up on small regions in small countries with relatively minor influence in modern affairs), but again, Americans don't know that shit. we also all wear cowboy hats and support george bush with all our hearts. we love fast food and all support globalism rabidly, my whole vegetarian internet persona is plainly a ruse. I definitely knew nothing about the fact pre-christian Basque mythology centers around the travel of a storm goddess between two mountain peaks, as well as strange ape-men similar to the northern european woodwoses...but comparative religion and mythology is not an interest of mine and I must've wiki'd this all 5 minutes ago, since all americans are fundamentalist baptists with no interest in foreign cultures. I definitely don't have an interest in Mozarabic poetry either, because as an american I'm practically illiterate. I've definitely never read Cervantes or that Carlos Ruiz Zafón character...any mention I make of my supposed interest in Mannerism or Baroque architecture from your region is entirely probably a scam that I'm using to hide the fact I am "a terrorist".Do remember that Americans are terrorists and believe themselves to be the World Police. So yeah, we Europeans have gypsies, Turks and Africans, but these are more decent than one American tourist on vacation over here so...:rolleyes:seeing as I've said as much about the US government myself, marched against the war(s) since I was 14, could wallpaper my room with the responses I've gotten from senators I've written time and again, you really just aren't going to make me feel guilty about the fact the US was an imperialistic oligarchy before I was born.

I'll tell you a secret, though - this fall when I was being yelled at and called a traitor by total strangers for taking time to go protest the war AGAIN, I really just was hoping for someone as cosmopolitan and enlightened as you to really tear me a new one because I happen to live next to the people already verbally abusing me. some days being a gay vegetarian pacifist in arkansas just doesn't make me feel isolated enough. times like that, having bigoted strangers (who I spend a substantial amount of time defending to other americans) insult me for deciding to be born in the US really hits the spot.

I can understand being bitter about the tourism, seeing as your nation's economy wouldn't survive without foreigners finding it amusing and quaint. that has to be a bit emasculating. If I were you I wouldn't be too mean to the poor dears, though, you don't want a recession. I'd actually considered emigrating to Spain because we likely feel the same way about the US government, it's just that you're a self-superior jackass.

at this point were I talking to someone who realized the only possible influence they can hope to have in american foreign policy is through building relationships with american voters, I might attempt to speak Spanish, but I strongly suspect you would mock my 1st year Spanish brutally, further encouraging English speakers not to even bother learning it, forcing your government to hire more of us to teach your children English. Besides, most of the Spanish I know I learned from Afro-Cubans in the context of studying the Yoruba diaspora (in my spare time), and since I'm automatically a racist by being american, whatever I learned from black people I obviously twisted and didn't really understand. sadly, I've been too busy taking latin, russian, and french to get good enough at spanish to respond in it.

/rant
if I didn't get flack for being un-american from jingoistic douchebags at home, I might not be so annoyed when people lump me in with the demographic I despise.It's unspoken but agreed upon that certain jobs go to certain people, and no one else. I've worked in both the legal and entertainment industries, and the breakdown is always the same: latino men work janitorial, black women as secretaries, Jewish men the lawyers and executives (with about 25% women, of those one or 2 minorities, NO MORE). The straight white men and lesbians work the entertainment union jobs (carpentry, lighting, etc.), gay men of all colors work fashion and design, and 1/2 of every IT department is Asian men. Try to get a job in an area not within your group ... next to impossible.heh, I applied for a secretary job in NYC when I was living there last year (shortly before being kicked out of my apartment for being quoted in this (http://www.villagevoice.com/arts/0615,aviv,72805,12.html) article...*wonders how many lawsuits he passed up that spring*) and the manager flat out told me "well, you're not an attractive woman" (gay white male) "so you're not getting this job, but let me hook you up with something in sales!" - kind of amazing, I didn't expect the guy to just come out and say it.

Technically the word "gypsy" is a racial slur (as is the word gyp as in "I was gyped."). The correct term is Rom, or Romany.it's a misnomer because they were thought to come from Egypt (actually being from what's modern Pakistan - it's interesting, you can track their migration through their language, their words for iron and equestrian related things are all borrowed from turkic languages, older ones are more similar to the older relatives of Hindi...the loanwords for higher order technology come from continually more western languages) but I don't expect people busy being racist about them to recognize "Rom", "Gitano", or any of the smaller tribe names for that matter.

edit:
and I totally didn't need to be defensive since I think you were well intentioned there...sorry, I'm still p/o'd from the last post. generally speaking, if you say "Roma" in america people have absolutely no idea what you're talking about...the only american who's ever known it beyond "gypsy" was my anthropology professor.

Thats probably true, The Country was founded by Racist people, and thats a hard thing to escape from completely...

WrongOnly the South.

WrongOnly the South.

I really shouldnt even respond to this...

But, You should read up on the Constitution, and the Founding Fathers...

It would enlighten you on the fallacy of that statement...

I was just curious...

The thread about the poor guy bein shot by the fucktarded police prompted the question...

I got into an argument on the subject, i didnt expect allot of support, although there was more fire than i figured thered be...

I just find it odd that when the NYPD does the bastard thing, New York isnt trashed...But, some dumb fuck from MS does it, and the Entire state is blanket flamed...

Ive always said that weve come a long way, and that the shit that went on in our past history helped us get there, and become alot more progressive than alot of states in the matter, but, as of late, its starting to look like that hasnt happened afterall...from the previously mentioned issue, to the Obama vote...

I was just wondering how you perceive it...

Yes

Americans can be racist, but they aren't as bigoted as British people are to Russians, I swear British people are racist like hell towards Russians, it goes way back too, I actually remember Thatcher saying something like 'only 20 million people can comfortably live in Russia' or something like that,...:eek:

You should have seen the cash register tonight flipping out when we tried to process American tender. Now that's a smart cash register. The US is a nuthouse.

i think there's more involved here then just racism as such. there's a totally unwarented, excessive faith in authority and the need for investing it in individuals.

the race aspect, while an important part, is just one part of what that brings out.

nor is it exclusive to any one state, although ms does have a long standing reputation. one that it had though, for a while lived down, or nearly lived down.

with the rise of the loonatic 'right' all of those monsters are comming back out of where they'd been hiding, when the world had been trying to be a saner place.

=^^=
.../\...

The whole of the US is racist. There´s not much to say there.

The whole of the US is not racist. Some of us do not care enough to be called racist.

The whole of the US is not racist. Some of us do not care enough to be called racist.

i think the point being made, and it is a valid one, is that incentives toward racism, permiate the dominant culture, throughout the u.s., not just in the so called south. not that a mojority of people anywhere are consciously inclined toward racism as such.

and the reason for this begins and ends with the politics of devide and concor wedgism.

and does indeed go back to "the founding fathers" and beyond.

old lonsome george was rightfully called village burner, and for good reason.

=^^=
.../\...

The whole of the US is not racist. Some of us do not care enough to be called racist.

And some of us just plain aren't.

MS looks like having a significative number of racists, just like some other US states. About the State being racist per se, I think that US states aren't allowed to have racist principles anymore.

Technically the word "gypsy" is a racial slur (as is the word gyp as in "I was gyped."). The correct term is Rom, or Romany.

Some gypsies ("zingari" here: compare with "tsigany") aren't of Rom ethnicity. There are Sinti gypsies, too - actually, until some years ago they were the majority of the gypsies living in Italy.

Btw, I would not use "romany" to mean "gypsies", because it sounds exactly like "romani" (that is, romans), and it leads to misunderstanding.

Some gypsies ("zingari" here: compare with "tsigany") aren't of Rom ethnicity. There are Sinti gypsies, too - actually, until some years ago they were the majority of the gypsies living in Italy.

Btw, I would not use "romany" to mean "gypsies", because it sounds exactly like "romani" (that is, romans), and it leads to misunderstanding.It's "Roma" in German, for instance.

It's "Roma" in German, for instance.

Yeah. See, the really puzzling thing about gypsies is that they defy the common european ethnical divisions and concepts. Those who we "standard" europeans call "gypsies" as a whole don't even recognise themselves as a single group - they stick to the name of what we perceive to be a subgroup name (Rom, Sinti etc). So, whenever we try to bundle them up in a single group, we actually introduce somewhat of an error in understanding them.

if I didn't get flack for being un-american from jingoistic douchebags at home, I might not be so annoyed when people lump me in with the demographic I despise.

Yeah. Pretty much how I feel. I get it double, I'm from Alabama. If I'm at home I'm a crazy liberal... if I'm away people sometimes are dumbfounded to see that I am actually intelligent and not a fundamentalist Baptist.

But yeah. I've never been to MS, but from what hear it's worse than AL by a lot. Though I have driven through parts of TN that are cross-burning country. :/ It's not so much fun. (I never stop. Never. Not only is there not a functioning gas station there, I'd be a little fearful even as a white chick.)

Though people who say the South is much more racist than the North just aren't looking around. Gah.

The whole of the US is not racist. Some of us do not care enough to be called racist.

The entire US of A is racist. Your history, both past and present, is plagued with racism.
I wonder what that last statement makes you? Not care enough to be called racist? That's a typical American attitude.:rolleyes:

Completely idiotic for you to say that. Racism is prevalent everywhere. I haven't seen a country yet that isn't racist in it's own way.

No Marrakech, this is not idiotic of me to say. Racism is a problem in the entire world, you're right. But it grates me that someone that comes from a country known for it's rampant racism speaks about the Basque.

The Basque Country is a part of Spain, and the problem with them isn't racism. The problem with Euskadi is political. So do spare me if I don't sympathazise with the Americans.

There seems to be a discrepancy between the poll and the replies...


I already know the US as a whole is pretty racist...its a given, given our history...

I was asking if MS>US in the category...

Course, i was mostly idly trolling, cause i figured itd be full of flamebait...

When i tried to make a point of MS=US then i was flammed to death...
Look, pal, most people that don't live here, still think that the South today is just like it was during the War Between the States. Not many are old enough to remember that some of the worst race riots of the '60s weren't in the South, they were in Detroit and other northern cities. Don't ignore the fact that forced busing for integration persisted far longer in northern cities, either.

There is far more equality of opportunity for minorities in the South today than in our northern states. We know that because we see it every day. Most of these folks that can't see that for the fact it is are either Yankees or pretentious bigots. Sometimes both.

Capitalism is the problem, racism is but a nasty outgrowth of those propertied relations.

Capitalism is the problem, racism is but a nasty outgrowth of those propertied relations.
Hohono. East Germany, the former GDR, has a bigger problem with racism than West Germany, primarily due to the inabilities of the Communist Regime to deal with it.

The entire US of A is racist. Your history, both past and present, is plagued with racism.
I wonder what that last statement makes you? Not care enough to be called racist? That's a typical American attitude.:rolleyes:
Do you understand what racist means? By definition, in English? Try this... Racism is a belief that a particular race is superior to others.

Discrimination is a whole 'nother thing. And I'm going to bet that Spain, France, Germany, Italy, and everyone else is guilty of discrimination in one form or another. The fact that we, in the U.S. have changed our Constitution to make discrimination illegal puts us one step above y'all.

Do you understand what racist means? By definition, in English? Try this... Racism is a belief that a particular race is superior to others.

Discrimination is a whole 'nother thing. And I'm going to bet that Spain, France, Germany, Italy, and everyone else is guilty of discrimination in one form or another. The fact that we, in the U.S. have changed our Constitution to make discrimination illegal puts us one step above y'all.Interestingly enough, the EU has enacted binding legislation against discrimination. Except, in the US, you can still get fired for sexual orientation, which puts the EU one step above you. ;)

I don't see as I implied anywhere that there were Basques outside of Spain, but I'll accept that you're dead set on stereotyping me as completely ignorant. I like that you call them a problem, by the way. I could write a few pages about how interesting their language is (being not of the indo-european language family and all) and talk about their mythology and so on, but I'm an american and we're not supposed to know things like that. I'll demure in hopes of keeping your worldview intact. I'm reasonably sure they're largely concentrated in the northeastern part of the country, around Navarra, (I actually did wiki that, so I could spell it, I wasn't sure as the English and Spanish spellings differ and I'm not up on small regions in small countries with relatively minor influence in modern affairs), but again, Americans don't know that shit. we also all wear cowboy hats and support george bush with all our hearts. we love fast food and all support globalism rabidly, my whole vegetarian internet persona is plainly a ruse. I definitely knew nothing about the fact pre-christian Basque mythology centers around the travel of a storm goddess between two mountain peaks, as well as strange ape-men similar to the northern european woodwoses...but comparative religion and mythology is not an interest of mine and I must've wiki'd this all 5 minutes ago, since all americans are fundamentalist baptists with no interest in foreign cultures. I definitely don't have an interest in Mozarabic poetry either, because as an american I'm practically illiterate. I've definitely never read Cervantes or that Carlos Ruiz Zafón character...any mention I make of my supposed interest in Mannerism or Baroque architecture from your region is entirely probably a scam that I'm using to hide the fact I am "a terrorist".seeing as I've said as much about the US government myself, marched against the war(s) since I was 14, could wallpaper my room with the responses I've gotten from senators I've written time and again, you really just aren't going to make me feel guilty about the fact the US was an imperialistic oligarchy before I was born.

I'll tell you a secret, though - this fall when I was being yelled at and called a traitor by total strangers for taking time to go protest the war AGAIN, I really just was hoping for someone as cosmopolitan and enlightened as you to really tear me a new one because I happen to live next to the people already verbally abusing me. some days being a gay vegetarian pacifist in arkansas just doesn't make me feel isolated enough. times like that, having bigoted strangers (who I spend a substantial amount of time defending to other americans) insult me for deciding to be born in the US really hits the spot.

I can understand being bitter about the tourism, seeing as your nation's economy wouldn't survive without foreigners finding it amusing and quaint. that has to be a bit emasculating. If I were you I wouldn't be too mean to the poor dears, though, you don't want a recession. I'd actually considered emigrating to Spain because we likely feel the same way about the US government, it's just that you're a self-superior jackass.

at this point were I talking to someone who realized the only possible influence they can hope to have in american foreign policy is through building relationships with american voters, I might attempt to speak Spanish, but I strongly suspect you would mock my 1st year Spanish brutally, further encouraging English speakers not to even bother learning it, forcing your government to hire more of us to teach your children English. Besides, most of the Spanish I know I learned from Afro-Cubans in the context of studying the Yoruba diaspora (in my spare time), and since I'm automatically a racist by being american, whatever I learned from black people I obviously twisted and didn't really understand. sadly, I've been too busy taking latin, russian, and french to get good enough at spanish to respond in it.

Your rant, dear, only proves my point. And let me re-phrase it, so your small American Imeperial mind understands a bit better, since you so blatantly declare yourself an ignorant twit: Your country, as a whole (perhaps there are some exceptions to the rule) is a cesspool of racism.

And for the record, let me back it up with some proof (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_the_United_States)and clarify that the whole world is racist too.
CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/12/racism.poll/index.html) poll
Modern day American racism (http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/hills/8908/rframe.htm)
And for wonderful Southern pride (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/may/20/usa.theobserver)...
Of course, I make that clarification so idiotic sensibilities don't get hurt in the process.

Ah! And while your rant is, oh so emphatic in things about my country you don't care about, let me remind you, little boy, that while your country was the home of Native Americans (and by God it should have stayed like that), mine and the whole of Europe was conquering the world.

If people here dislike my statement: spare me if I'm not sympathetic.:rolleyes:

No Marrakech, this is not idiotic of me to say. Racism is a problem in the entire world, you're right. But it grates me that someone that comes from a country known for it's rampant racism speaks about the Basque.

The Basque Country is a part of Spain, and the problem with them isn't racism. The problem with Euskadi is political. So do spare me if I don't sympathizes with the Americans.

I think you are mincing words here. I personally don't speak about the basque however if you want to bring history into the conversation as you did in another post Spain is no shining example.

As for sympathy there is no need. However the holier than thou attitude is a bit over the top.

I think you are mincing words here. I personally don't speak about the basque however if you want to bring history into the conversation as you did in another post Spain is no shining example.

As for sympathy there is no need. However the holier than thou attitude is a bit over the top.

But I do recognize that Spain is no shinning example. My country has it's extensive list of injustice and discrimination. But my country is well aware of it. We know we killed the Native Americans, we stole their gold, we exploted them and abused them. We took their land. Are Americans aware of their own discrimination and racism or do they find these normal?

I lived there, I saw it with my own eyes. I saw many store employees refuse to serve people because they were Latino. I saw many people insult Mexicans. I saw the jeers and catcalls many uttered loudly against a woman because she happened to be Muslim and wore a scarf during Ramaddam.

I saw them become horrible just because I spoke Spanish with the people I knew or broke into French because the person I was helping was Canadian or from Sierra Leone and didn't understand English. I saw the boss of my ex-boyfriend fire a young man from Africa because this man said he was from Nigeria. Just because he was from Nigeria...

I'm not trying to act holier than thou. I, myself, have many prejudices and nasty attitudes. But I recognize the fact.

But I do recognize that Spain is no shinning example. My country has it's extensive list of injustice and discrimination. But my country is well aware of it. We know we killed the Native Americans, we stole their gold, we exploted them and abused them. We took their land. Are Americans aware of their own discrimination and racism or do they find these normal?

I lived there, I saw it with my own eyes. I saw many store employees refuse to serve people because they were Latino. I saw many people insult Mexicans. I saw the jeers and catcalls many uttered loudly against a woman because she happened to be Muslim and wore a scarf during Ramadan.

I saw them become horrible just because I spoke Spanish with the people I knew or broke into French because the person I was helping was Canadian or from Sierra Leone and didn't understand English. I saw the boss of my ex-boyfriend fire a young man from Africa because this man said he was from Nigeria. Just because he was from Nigeria...

I'm not trying to act holier than thou. I, myself, have many prejudices and nasty attitudes. But I recognize the fact.

Americans know their past, present and strive for a better future. People here do not have blind eyes toward racism. It is probably one of the most talked about subjects in the nation backed up with laws to try and fix it. I personally think the US has taken great strides at fixing perceived injustice and real injustice.

As for your personal experiences those are not typical and I have been in this nation for a long time. I also employ people myself. I can tell you the punishment for being a racist employer is not light. So what you are describing if happened the way you are saying is illegal in the US. I am also curious as to where you were when you saw all of this?

Edit:


I'm not trying to act holier than thou. I, myself, have many prejudices and nasty attitudes. But I recognize the fact.

It comes across as real nasty and doesn't bring good images to mind. I have seen you post the past few months and seem to think you are an decent person however the uncontrolled anti-Americanism that you display is a huge negative to others like myself that seem to think you are decent. Not at all wanting to curtail your personal viewpoints however in order for some of us or maybe most of us to listen I would suggest toning it down or changing wording so it doesn't seem so combative. That is of course you want to have a meaningful discussion where we all can learn from. However if that is your style and not wanting to change the method of delivery is your will then you may start getting some hard hitting comments coming back. In the end that doesn't persuade anyone and thus a meaningless flamefest.

Interestingly enough, the EU has enacted binding legislation against discrimination. Except, in the US, you can still get fired for sexual orientation, which puts the EU one step above you. ;)
Legislation and Constitutional protections are two different things. Legislation is easily change by a whim of the majority. Constitutional protections are much more binding -- as close to permanent as you can get.

And you'll be hard pressed to find an employer that will fire an employee for anything other than poor job performance -- it's far too litigious of a society to do otherwise.

But I do recognize that Spain is no shinning example. My country has it's extensive list of injustice and discrimination. But my country is well aware of it. We know we killed the Native Americans, we stole their gold, we exploted them and abused them. We took their land. Are Americans aware of their own discrimination and racism or do they find these normal?

I lived there, I saw it with my own eyes. I saw many store employees refuse to serve people because they were Latino. I saw many people insult Mexicans. I saw the jeers and catcalls many uttered loudly against a woman because she happened to be Muslim and wore a scarf during Ramaddam.

I saw them become horrible just because I spoke Spanish with the people I knew or broke into French because the person I was helping was Canadian or from Sierra Leone and didn't understand English. I saw the boss of my ex-boyfriend fire a young man from Africa because this man said he was from Nigeria. Just because he was from Nigeria...

I'm not trying to act holier than thou. I, myself, have many prejudices and nasty attitudes. But I recognize the fact.
I'm going to go one step further than calling these incidents atypical. I don't think they happened at all. This sounds more like a Michael Moore movie than it does any part of the U.S. that I've ever visited.

It's either complete fabrication, or my little corner of Georgia is the most progressive spot on earth. I'm willing to bet on the former.

As for your personal experiences those are not typical and I have been in this nation for a long time. I also employ people myself. I can tell you the punishment for being a racist employer is not light. So what you are describing if happened the way you are saying is illegal in the US. I am also curious as to where you were when you saw all of this?

I was living in Lansing, Michigan. The companies that did this were Target and Kohl's. The African man was fired on the spot from Myers. Myers is a chain of stores like Wal-mart native to MI. That state forever tarnished my image of the US. And what is presented in the media, and my encounters with Americans here in Spain, do not help at all.

I can totally understand that Americans are trying to improve, but that's not what I saw when I lived there.

I'm going to go one step further than calling these incidents atypical. I don't think they happened at all. This sounds more like a Michael Moore movie than it does any part of the U.S. that I've ever visited.

It's either complete fabrication, or my little corner of Georgia is the most progressive spot on earth. I'm willing to bet on the former.

I don't think your little corner of Georgia is the most progressive spot on earth. You just live in a comfortable bubble and your incredulity and putting my integrity in question offends and astounds me at the same time. So I'm gonna go with keeping my opinion of your country the same as it is.

WrongOnly the South.

Lollercopter.

Yeah. Pretty much how I feel. I get it double, I'm from Alabama. If I'm at home I'm a crazy liberal... if I'm away people sometimes are dumbfounded to see that I am actually intelligent and not a fundamentalist Baptist.

But yeah. I've never been to MS, but from what hear it's worse than AL by a lot. Though I have driven through parts of TN that are cross-burning country. :/ It's not so much fun. (I never stop. Never. Not only is there not a functioning gas station there, I'd be a little fearful even as a white chick.)

Though people who say the South is much more racist than the North just aren't looking around. Gah.

Not sure what part of Alabama you're from but Arab's cross burning country as well.

Is Mississippi racist? As a state, and dealing with the government, no.

Are the people racist? Sorta. Some of the people are the most virulent racists you'll ever meet. Some of the people would spit on me for being black. But they are a small minority and getting smaller by the generation. It's hard to be racist against a certain group of people when you live with them, work with them, go to church with them, and have your children go to school with their children.

I've actually seen worse racism in Minnesota, than in Mississippi. I'm helping 2 white guys unload the truck while we're listing to the Viking game. Out of the blue he says "I don't know why they got Tavarris Jackson. Those damn blacks aren't ever smart enough to play quarterback." To me, that's a lot worse than just being randomly called a ******.

Is Spain really aware of its own problems with racism? If Luis Aragones was in charge of the English or U.S soccer team, he would have been sacked. As it was, he was fined a measly $4000.

I don't think your little corner of Georgia is the most progressive spot on earth. You just live in a comfortable bubble and your incredulity and putting my integrity in question offends and astounds me at the same time. So I'm gonna go with keeping my opinion of your country the same as it is.
It's awfully easy to string together a bunch of anecdotes that "prove" your point. It's awfully convenient that the anecdotes all documented undesirable behavior, too. But they're inconsistent with what I recognize as reality. Firing a man because he's Nigerian is illegal. No store manager would fire an employee on that basis alone. Obviously the store management knew the fellow was Nigerian when they hired him....

Go ahead and be offended. You have offended me by making up such nonsense about my country. We can settle this with pistols at dawn, if you would like...

It's awfully easy to string together a bunch of anecdotes that "prove" your point. It's awfully convenient that the anecdotes all documented undesirable behavior, too. But they're inconsistent with what I recognize as reality. Firing a man because he's Nigerian is illegal. No store manager would fire an employee on that basis alone. Obviously the store management knew the fellow was Nigerian when they hired him....

Go ahead and be offended. You have offended me by making up such nonsense about my country. We can settle this with pistols at dawn, if you would like...

Myrmidonisia, I frankly do not care about your opinion anymore, one way or another.

Legislation and Constitutional protections are two different things. Legislation is easily change by a whim of the majority. Constitutional protections are much more binding -- as close to permanent as you can get.Haha. In a two party system, changing the constitution is far easier than getting the EU Commission to revoke a directive. You only need one country to blockade a decision under current rules.
And you'll be hard pressed to find an employer that will fire an employee for anything other than poor job performance -- it's far too litigious of a society to do otherwise.Found one earlier today in an independent discussion on said topic. Another guy let us know that you can get fired for sexual orientation according to the people who ran the discrimination training at his workplace.

Haha. In a two party system, changing the constitution is far easier than getting the EU Commission to revoke a directive. You only need one country to blockade a decision under current rules.

Maybe so, I think that neither of us are familiar enough with the subtleties of the other's lawmaking procedures.

Found one earlier today in an independent discussion on said topic. Another guy let us know that you can get fired for sexual orientation according to the people who ran the discrimination training at his workplace.
How convenient. Even if that's true, one doesn't make a trend. I actually have employees and have fired them. Neither I, nor anyone else that I know in positions similar to mine would think of firing employees for any other reason than poor job performance. I'll bet the employee in your example beat a path straight to an employment lawyer. Because it isn't against the law doesn't mean there are grounds for litigation. There are some pretty smart lawyers around here.

Myrmidonisia, I frankly do not care about your opinion anymore, one way or another.
Then we're even. I refuse to believe your anecdotes anymore.

Then we're even. I refuse to believe your anecdotes anymore.

Ignorance is bliss...:rolleyes:

I would say that Mississippi, along with the rest of the deep South, tend to have a higher likelihood of being racist. This is probably due to historical factors, and we can but hope it dies out over time. Unfortunately, a large number of people have taken it upon themselves to pass their biases along to their children.

Myrmidonisia, I frankly do not care about your opinion anymore, one way or another.

Anecdotes prove nothing but your own bias. Find sources for your opinions, back them up with cold hard facts, not half remembered stories that no one, not even you can verify.

It comes across as real nasty and doesn't bring good images to mind. I have seen you post the past few months and seem to think you are an decent person however the uncontrolled anti-Americanism that you display is a huge negative to others like myself that seem to think you are decent. Not at all wanting to curtail your personal viewpoints however in order for some of us or maybe most of us to listen I would suggest toning it down or changing wording so it doesn't seem so combative. That is of course you want to have a meaningful discussion where we all can learn from. However if that is your style and not wanting to change the method of delivery is your will then you may start getting some hard hitting comments coming back. In the end that doesn't persuade anyone and thus a meaningless flamefest.

I feel extreme dislike for Americans, and that's final. I do recognize many are decent people, I think Dyakovo is an excellent person and I respect him a lot, just as KoL is (despite what some NSGers believe) and so is Galloism. I don't want to come across as an unreasonable human being, so from now on, I'll keep my opinions on the US to myself.;)

Anecdotes prove nothing but your own bias. Find sources for your opinions, back them up with cold hard facts, not half remembered stories that no one, not even you can verify.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13696514&postcount=55
Cold facts for your reading comprehension.

I feel extreme dislike for Americans, and that's final. I do recognize many are decent people, I think Dyakovo is an excellent person and I respect him a lot, just as KoL is (despite what some NSGers believe) and so is Galloism. I don't want to come across as an unreasonable human being, so from now on, I'll keep my opinions on the US to myself.;)

Meh, don't worry about pissing people off, they're your opinions, you have your reasons for them, if any one doesn't like them, oh well.

Meh, don't worry about pissing people off, they're your opinions, you have your reasons for them, if any one doesn't like them, oh well.

Вот причина, почему я в вас выше остальных. Вы, несмотря на то, что американские, понять.

Вот причина, почему я в вас выше остальных. Вы, несмотря на то, что американские, понять.

Если Вы никогда не были к США, или если бы ваш опыт там был исключительно от посещения, то я чувствовал бы по-другому. Однако, Вы жили здесь, так, в то время как ваш опыт не обязательно представительный для всей нации, это является все еще подлинным.

Если Вы никогда не были к США, или если бы ваш опыт там был исключительно от посещения, то я чувствовал бы по-другому. Однако, Вы жили здесь, так, в то время как ваш опыт не обязательно представительный для всей нации, это является все еще подлинным.

Я заявил, что уже и было очень решетку быть помечены lair с учетом моего опыта на то, что считает Майкл Мур заговоре. Meh, не имеет значения, больше не существует. До тех пор, пока ваше мнение мне не изменяет из-мои чувства, я нормально с этим.

Я заявил, что уже и было очень решетку быть помечены lair с учетом моего опыта на то, что считает Майкл Мур заговоре. Meh, не имеет значения, больше не существует. До тех пор, пока ваше мнение мне не изменяет из-мои чувства, я нормально с этим.

:fluffle:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13696514&postcount=55
Cold facts for your reading comprehension.

Did you seriously link a geocities homepage as proof of something?

:fluffle:

;)
В любое время, приятель!

Did you seriously link a geocities homepage as proof of something?

Yes I did. Bus since you seem to be disastified by it, here, have more cold facts:
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2008/03/07/usdom18239.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:History_of_racism_in_the_United_States
http://www.counterpunch.org/washington03252008.html
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8584
http://psychservices.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/58/5/718

Wait, are we being lectured by Spain on race relations? The country that almost lost its F1 race (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article3306476.ece) over racism? Even NASCAR fans didn't show up in fucking black face when it got its first black driver.

I'm not absolving the US for institutional racism that lingers to this day both overtly and tacitly, we clearly have an issue with race that will take generations to unravel. But the reality is we are Europe's child and the apple didn't fall far from the tree. Anyone patting themselves on the back by casting wide brush assertions on others-while having a satisfying and amusing irony to it-are kidding themselves and are about as far from constructive as possible. I recognize it as mostly bluster, the same mentality that finds stunted school children kicking over ant hills or taking swipes at hornet's nests-I wonder if it's a recognition of ones limits, if they contributed constructively they'd be but a voice in the crowd, but if they show their ass, it's all eyes on them. While interesting, I don't think the OP's original regional question should be lost because someone's mother didn't hug them enough.

Wait, are we being lectured by Spain on race relations?

You aren't, a Spaniard is offering her opinion on the state of race relations in the U.S. while admitting that Spain has its own issues.

You aren't, a Spaniard is offering her opinion on the state of race relations in the U.S. while admitting that Spain has its own issues.

Thanks, I really was under the impression that the entire nation was posting. That's a fairly generous assessment of her posts.

Your rant, dear, only proves my point. And let me re-phrase it, so your small American Imeperial mind understands a bit better, since you so blatantly declare yourself an ignorant twit: Your country, as a whole (perhaps there are some exceptions to the rule) is a cesspool of racism.

And for the record, let me back it up with some proof (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_the_United_States)and clarify that the whole world is racist too.
CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/12/racism.poll/index.html) poll
Modern day American racism (http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/hills/8908/rframe.htm)
And for wonderful Southern pride (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/may/20/usa.theobserver)...
Of course, I make that clarification so idiotic sensibilities don't get hurt in the process.

None of this proves your claim that the "entire US" is racist. It only proves that there are still racists in the US.

I feel extreme dislike for Americans, and that's final. I do recognize many are decent people, I think Dyakovo is an excellent person and I respect him a lot, just as KoL is (despite what some NSGers believe) and so is Galloism. I don't want to come across as an unreasonable human being, so from now on, I'll keep my opinions on the US to myself.;)

Ouch. I'm not on the list. Lol. XD guess I'm not a decent people.


I would also like to say that just about everyone whose posted on this thread is a racist... or if not a racist per se then most definitively a bigot.

I am a racist. And there's one race of people I just loathe.... Humans. With their fucking talking and their thoughts and their idiocies.

And yes I realize that this means I'm racist against my own people.... but.... so? I recognize that not all of humanity is a clusterfuck of incompotence that doesn't mean I can't recognize that a large majority of them are indeed buffoons.

Ouch. I'm not on the list. Lol. XD guess I'm not a decent people.

CG, I like you too.;)

CG, I like you too.;)

Awwww how sweet. :fluffle:

I agree that there is lots of racism in the US, and also that Mississippi is the worst.

That's a fairly generous assessment of her posts.

It is what she was saying, was she a bit more vitriolic about it? Yes, she was, but so what?

It is what she was saying, was she a bit more vitriolic about it? Yes, she was, but so what?

Don't bother, Dyakovo. I know that my opinion is solely mine and doesn't represent the views (and it's not like they care one way or the other) of the rest of my country. This argument is going nowhere, anyway.;)

Don't bother, Dyakovo. I know that my opinion is solely mine and doesn't represent the views (and it's not like they care one way or the other) of the rest of my country. This argument is going nowhere, anyway.;)

*shrugs*
I was simply pointing out the essence of what you were saying, if others read more into than was actually there, that is their problem...

It is what she was saying, was she a bit more vitriolic about it? Yes, she was, but so what?

Let me get a tissue for the poor misunderstood poster. sniffle. I mean, sure she painted 300 million people with a broad brush for, ironically, painting a group of people with a broad brush and was sanctimonious about it, but that's no reason to call her on it!!! I'm such a meany. (I mean, come on, she even brushed off the bigot's classic-"I'm not prejudiced, some of my best friends are Americans (or blacks, or Jews, or whatever), but aside from them, they all suck." Not to mention removing minority's citizenship, essentially implying that the only people who are "Americans" are white people...there's so many ways to approach the vitriol. It's clownish and the only reason it's expressed in the way it was has already been mentioned. To pretend that this is any serious contribution is to pretend that a hick yelling "Fucking hippie!" as he drives by in his truck is debate.)

Look, it's fine to have opinions. But if you're going to go around spouting them, you invite other peoples opinions. If you're a sanctimonious dick about it, you don't get to get all whiny when people call it. I don't know if you think you're coming to a maiden's rescue or what, but to have a thin skin about a fight someone else picked is pretty silly.

Let me get a tissue for the poor misunderstood poster. sniffle. I mean, sure she painted 300 million people with a broad brush for, ironically, painting a group of people with a broad brush and was sanctimonious about it, but that's no reason to call her on it!!! I'm such a meany. (I mean, come on, she even brushed off the bigot's classic-"I'm not prejudiced, some of my best friends are Americans (or blacks, or Jews, or whatever), but aside from them, they all suck." Not to mention removing minority's citizenship, essentially implying that the only people who are "Americans" are white people...there's so many ways to approach the vitriol. It's clownish and the only reason it's expressed in the way it was has already been mentioned. To pretend that this is any serious contribution is to pretend that a hick yelling "Fucking hippie!" as he drives by in his truck is debate.)

Look, it's fine to have opinions. But if you're going to go around spouting them, you invite other peoples opinions. If you're a sanctimonious dick about it, you don't get to get all whiny when people call it. I don't know if you think you're coming to a maiden's rescue or what, but to have a thin skin about a fight someone else picked is pretty silly.

You go a rant and I'm the one with thin skin?

My only comment was that I didn't see what you were getting upset about. As has been noted before I am an American, so by your assessment I'm one of the ones "painted with this broad brush." You don't see me getting all warped about it.
Also, unless I missed it, I do not recall Nanatsu stating that every single U.S. citizen was a racist, and even if she did so fucking what?

I guess the point I'm trying to get across is you're sitting the accusing me of being thin-skinned for being unfazed by an insult, whereas you apparently are the one reacting calmly and reasonably in your rant in response to her voicing her opinion.
Do you see the contradiction there?


One final point, where did I say to leave her alone about her opinion? Again, I was stating that I did not see what people were getting upset about. The U.S. does have a huge problem with racism.

You go a rant and I'm the one with thin skin?
It's hardly a rant, and yes, you are.

My only comment was that I didn't see what you were getting upset about. As has been noted before I am an American, so by your assessment I'm one of the ones "painted with this broad brush." You don't see me getting all warped about it.
Also, unless I missed it, I do not recall Nanatsu stating that every single U.S. citizen was a racist, and even if she did so fucking what?
The whole of the US is racist. There´s not much to say there.

Do remember that Americans are terrorists and believe themselves to be the World Police. So yeah, we Europeans have gypsies, Turks and Africans, but these are more decent than one American tourist on vacation over here so...:rolleyes:
Gosh, how could I have read so much into her statements?!?




I guess the point I'm trying to get across is you're sitting the accusing me of being thin-skinned for being unfazed by an insult, whereas you apparently are the one reacting calmly and reasonably in your rant in response to her voicing her opinion.
Do you see the contradiction there?
Not in the slightest. I'm addressing the argument and the tone, both of which invite comment by design. You're performing the classic mistake of thinking that calling "Opinion!" shields someone from criticism.

Here's the thing, slugger-it's a debate forum. You do know how that works, don't you? Someone says something, someone else says, "I disagree," and on it goes. Did you forget that? Or, are you suffering under the delusion that someone says something like that, in that way, without not only expecting, but desiring a response? And you want to get get all whimpery about it like we're picking on her? Seriously?

We all know that's her opinion. Your English teachers should have taught you long long long ago that putting "In my opinion" in your writing is redundant. Unless you credit someone else with what you're saying, it is implied that what you say is your opinion. We don't need sycophants to point it out for us.

One final point, where did I say to leave her alone about her opinion? Again, I was stating that I did not see what people were getting upset about. The U.S. does have a huge problem with racism.
As we've all said. No one is going to say that the US is some post-racial paradise. There's a gulf between that reality and her statements. Calling "Opinion!" doesn't close it.

It's hardly a rant, and yes, you are.


This sums it up nicely, thanks...
Makes reading the rest of your post pointless, since it shows that you think ranting is calmness and calmness is being thin-skinned.

This sums it up nicely, thanks...
Makes reading the rest of your post pointless, since it shows that you think ranting is calmness and calmness is being thin-skinned.

Whatever makes it easier for ya, champ.

Whatever makes it easier for ya, champ.

:rolleyes:

This sums it up nicely, thanks...
Makes reading the rest of your post pointless, since it shows that you think ranting is calmness and calmness is being thin-skinned.

You got all flustered because CToaN was trying to take NnT to task over her opinion, clearly stated as "The whole US is racist". You were being thin-skinned over an attack on your friend. That's my opinion. Now I expect to be taken to task over my opinion. That's the nature of a debate forum.

You got all flustered because CToaN was trying to take NnT to task over her opinion, clearly stated as "The whole US is racist". You were being thin-skinned over an attack on your friend. That's my opinion. Now I expect to be taken to task over my opinion. That's the nature of a debate forum.

So that's two people who feel I got flustered.

Amusing that the only people who have said anything about my being thin-skinned because of the fact that I asked what the big deal was are Americans.

I generally despise the US government's foreign policy and have used "american" as a synonym for stupid, embarrassing, and a great many other negatives on many occasions, but the country as a whole has a tendency to be less overtly racist than many european nations. the things the germans say about the turks, or british about south asians, or french about north africans, are just as appalling and at least as common as the systematic exploitation of african americans that occurs over here.

I agree, america sucks, but europe doesn't get a "get out of guilt free" ticket - in many respects they're much more shameless about their ethnocentrism than americans usually are. american racial politics is full of ugly, disgusting hate, but by and large the US has a better track record with immigration than many european nations do...which is sad, cause it's pretty bad. I believe it's now illegal to even ask someone's race in france because employment discrimination is so rampant - and studies show having british sounding surnames make you significantly more likely to be hired. europe loves rich white immigrants but it doesn't know how to handle large scale, poor, ethnic immigration in the way that the US has been managing for well over a century. (as an aside I think it's ludicrous how the whole mexican immigration wave is being handled, but europe has it's own problems)


---

and to respond to the OP, yes, Mississippi is pretty much the epicenter of racism in my mind. coming from quaker pennsylvania (ancestors of mine had stops on the underground railroad in their cellars) arkansas is pretty damn racist too, though. I have a friend who had a cross burned in her yard. the dorm where most international students on my campus live went into lock-down after the muslim students started getting death threats. my current love interest (another man) was telling how his ex was beaten with chains in front of the courthouse in his town for daring to bring his black boyfriend home. I'm not sure if the residents of Fouke Arkansas were more concerned with the fact it was a gay relationship or an interracial one...maybe in the 2000s it takes a combination of the two to earn public humiliation and torture. that's progress for ya...another few decades and maybe we'll be treated like fucking human beings. *shrug*

in arkansas we tend to say "thank god for mississippi" because it's the only reason we're the 49th at everything. I think racism might apply here, too - though oklahoma's laws about mexican immigrants could give either of our states a run for their money. (it's now a felony to knowingly shelter or transport illegal immigrants. least with them all moving to arkansas I get more chances to practice my spanish...)
Those kinds of views make me wish that people who hold them would just get a horse and go live in the mountains somewhere. Hopefully we never meet. Ever. :)


and have used "american" as a synonym for stupid, embarrassing, and a great many other negatives on many occasions,
Perhaps stop emoing about how much you hate everything and just move to somewhere else? Honestly, you won't be missed.

Those kinds of views make me wish that people who hold them would just get a horse and go live in the mountains somewhere. Hopefully we never meet. Ever. :)

Wah. TAI can't handle meeting people with different views. Wah. :)

Perhaps stop emoing about how much you hate everything and just move to somewhere else? Honestly, you won't be missed.

No YOU love it or leave it!

No YOU!

YOU FIRST!

:rolleyes:

So that's two people who feel I got flustered.

Amusing that the only people who have said anything about my being thin-skinned because of the fact that I asked what the big deal was are Americans.

Dyako, don´t worry about that. As I already posted, my opinion, after this, is set. And your fellow Americans solidify it. I´m not going to voice any more of my opinions regarding the US of A. It´s worthless because whatever happens, nothing will change. I thank you for your solidarity a thousand fold. But it´s useless to argue with those who just get on the defensive and do not wish to see.

My opinion is that the whole of the US is racist for what I experienced there and from history. But I will note that not every citizen there is racist or discriminating.

Is my own country on the same boat? Of course it is. Is Great Britain on the same boat? Yes, it is. The whole world is a cesspool of racism and nothing anyone says here will change that. And that is my final statement on the matter. Want ti argue it, go ahead.

Dyako, don´t worry about that. As I already posted, my opinion, after this, is set. And your fellow Americans solidify it. I´m not going to voice any more of my opinions regarding the US of A. It´s worthless because whatever happens, nothing will change. I thank you for your solidarity a thousand fold. But it´s useless to argue with those who just get on the defensive and do not wish to see.

My opinion is that the whole of the US is racist for what I experienced there and from history. But I will note that not every citizen there is racist or discriminating.

Is my own country on the same boat? Of course it is. Is Great Britain on the same boat? Yes, it is. The whole world is a cesspool of racism and nothing anyone says here will change that. And that is my final statement on the matter. Want ti argue it, go ahead.

You are awesome. You rock my socks.

You are awesome. You rock my socks.

You´re welcome... for whatever it is...

Amusing that the only people who have said anything about my being thin-skinned because of the fact that I asked what the big deal was are Americans.
If it makes you any happier, I'm not American and I don't think her comments were all that crash-hot either. So no one should be surprised if people make a point of disagreeing with them.

Some gypsies ("zingari" here: compare with "tsigany") aren't of Rom ethnicity. There are Sinti gypsies, too - actually, until some years ago they were the majority of the gypsies living in Italy.

Btw, I would not use "romany" to mean "gypsies", because it sounds exactly like "romani" (that is, romans), and it leads to misunderstanding.I was under the impression that Zingara was a slur as well...but I may just be misinterpreting my french musicals (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j6AcpwYf-U).Yeah. Pretty much how I feel. I get it double, I'm from Alabama. If I'm at home I'm a crazy liberal... if I'm away people sometimes are dumbfounded to see that I am actually intelligent and not a fundamentalist Baptist.exactly. I almost never get it in person because I'm from pennsylvania and I speak like a northerner, but occasionally people will be jackasses about things online. one new york ayn rand fanboy tried to write my opinion off entirely by noting my facebook account is based in arkansas...blahNo Marrakech, this is not idiotic of me to say. Racism is a problem in the entire world, you're right. But it grates me that someone that comes from a country known for it's rampant racism speaks about the Basque.I didn't say america was any better...in fact I went out of my way to point out that I'm fully aware america has lots of flaws, and in previous posts mentioned how my friends have had trouble with racism...trouble including death threats and beatings - I got defensive because your posts have heretofore been rather bigoted (frankly I see very little difference between dismissing someone because of their skin color and dismissing someone because of their country of origin, but oh well) - I mentioned the Basque in reference to a *joke* made by a european about european racism. as I've said before, I'm entirely aware of america's problems and have actually considered moving to spain, because I do think it's better. all I said about america was that the bureaucracy has had more experience dealing with massive waves of immigration - because that's true. there's no such thing as an american ethnicity, most of us are mixed, I'm at least 5 european nationalities and 1 native american tribe myself, likely more I don't know about.

I wasn't trying to be dismissive of Spain - I pointed out that I love many Spanish contributions to the arts, including architecture and literature from several historical periods and ethnic groups within Spain...albeit rather defensively because of the extremely abrasive way in which you phrased your response. I might add that I also adore Montserrat Figueras, Jordan Savall, San Juan de la Cruz, Flamenco, and the language itself, which I'm studying.
your small American Imeperial mind...an ignorant twit...

*snip*

Ah! And while your rant is, oh so emphatic in things about my country you don't care about, let me remind you, little boy, that while your country was the home of Native Americans (and by God it should have stayed like that), mine and the whole of Europe was conquering the world.

If people here dislike my statement: spare me if I'm not sympathetic.:rolleyes:again, I tried to stress that I do actually have an interest in Spain. I told a German/Belgian friend of mine not two days ago that I was considering moving there *because* I have a great many problems with the US. I didn't mean to imply that the fact spain is no longer a superpower was any kind of discredit, just that I can't spell Navarra any more than a comparably obscure region in france, germany, japan, or wherever. I hardly think that spanish imperialism is a history worth bragging about...leastways not if you actually care about native americans (who were slaughtered and/or enslaved in the millions by spaniards...not that later europeans or americans treated them much better - though as I mentioned I'm part Lenape owing to the fact some english settlers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Province_of_Pennsylvania#Religious_Freedom_and_Prosperity) actually respected them...fair treatment of Natives was a condition of inheritance in one of my earliest ancestor's wills...but I doubt anyone cares). again I'm a pacifist, I mentor international students (a Nepalese person slept in my bed while I slept on the couch last week) and in general I rather resent being stereotyped the way you've spoken to me. oh well. offending strangers serves no purpose and I'm sorry if my being too defensive prevented this from coming to a more amicable conclusion...though I'm not sure if that was possible to begin with, given your attitude.Another guy let us know that you can get fired for sexual orientation according to the people who ran the discrimination training at his workplace.bleh, in arkansas you can still legally be fired or even kicked out of your home (if you rent) for being gay. there's an adoption ban on the books. being a second class citizen is grand.I did not see what people were getting upset about. The U.S. does have a huge problem with racism.as to what I was upset about, this:The Basque are a problem solely of Spain. Get your sources right.

Do remember that Americans are terrorists and believe themselves to be the World Police. So yeah, we Europeans have gypsies, Turks and Africans, but these are more decent than one American tourist on vacation over here so...:rolleyes:I could object to being called ignorant when she butted into a humorous exchange and attempted to teach me geography I already knew, but mostly it's being called a "terrorist" as someone who has vocally protested the war since before it started. it's just immensely frustrating to be screamed at by people in my home town and give up after years of form-letter responses from senators written, and then get blamed for "supporting" something I've worked against to the best of my ability for nearly 7 years. I've strongly considered tax resistance or even joining the plowshares movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plowshares_Movement), tried to organize campaigns to make high schoolers aware of how to keep the army from getting their test scores and things...I'm immensely disgusted and distressed by the US invasions and catch a lot of flack for it, so when she charged in here like she did I responded rather heatedly. I'm sorry but when I've got an army of all american rednecks calling me a traitor for protesting and people mocking me for spending "too much" time with foreigners it just grates to be mocked and dismissed by someone from the country I'm considering moving to. I doubt you care. this will probably be written off as another rant. serves me right for posting on stupid internet forums and expecting common courtesy. *sigh*Those kinds of views make me wish that people who hold them would just get a horse and go live in the mountains somewhere. Hopefully we never meet. Ever. :)



Perhaps stop emoing about how much you hate everything and just move to somewhere else? Honestly, you won't be missed.I just wanted to include this because I find the juxtaposition of being told off for being an "ignorant american" and being told off for not liking america enough amusing. depressing, actually, but we'll say amusing.

The Basque are a problem solely of Spain. Get your sources right.

Do remember that Americans are terrorists and believe themselves to be the World Police. So yeah, we Europeans have gypsies, Turks and Africans, but these are more decent than one American tourist on vacation over here so...:rolleyes:

you feeling guilty about that little Inquisition of yours? So you bash the most welcoming and diverse country in the world to try and lift your spirits.

America could very well elect a Black President, when will Spain elect a Muslim?

such bitterness.

Edit:

love Spanish women though

you feeling guilty about that little Inquisition of yours? So you bash the most welcoming and diverse country in the world to try and lift your spirits.

America could very well elect a Black President, when will Spain elect a Muslim?

such bitterness.

Edit:

love Spanish women though
In all fairness, we might end up not electing him because people think he's a Muslim and he has a bombastic pastor...I still think he's gonna win but it's in spite of that...

In all fairness, we might end up not electing him because people think he's a Muslim and he has a bombastic pastor...I still think he's gonna win but it's in spite of that...


that would be strange if he lost votes because people thought he was a muslim...and because of his eccentric Christian Pastor.

Eh, racism is everywhere and no state or nation or people have a monopoly on it. True racists just have a better handle on pointing at everyone else for their own failings. Just read this forum for a good example.

The racists absolutely looove this whole Wright thing with Obama, it finally gives them an opportunity to point out the horrible plight of their oppressed Christian White people...:rolleyes: They are the ultimate hypocrites and opportunists.

as to what I was upset about, this:

Ah, I missed her calling Americans terrorists, that explains the vehement responses.

that would be strange if he lost votes because people thought he was a muslim...and because of his eccentric Christian Pastor.

People are stupid.

Ah, I missed her calling Americans terrorists, that explains the vehement responses.

This is not directed at Dyakovo:

I want you all to take a good look at what´s going on in Iraq with the American troops over there, and honestly tell me if what the US army is doing there isn´t terrorism?

Bush´s ¨war on terror¨ is just as horrible as Al Qaeda attacking the WTC. And while I don´t condone nor applaud what happened on September 11, I do not condone nor applaud the subsequent attack and invasion of Iraq either. The Us has a history of getting involved and sticking it´s nose where no one has asked them too.

I don´t condone the jeering and critisizing of Muslim customs because they´re not the same as American. And I saw plenty of that when in MI. (and I do not care if I´m believed or not) I don´t condone the US´s policies on immigrants, just like I hate the ones my own government has crafted against immigrants. I am not blind as to how screwed up my own country is. Many of you, on the other hand, are utterly blind as to what your government and own people do.

As for me feeling guilty for the Spanish Inquisition... give me a break. That happened centuries ago. Plus, I´m just one person. I absolutely love the fact I´m Spanish and European. You mentioning the Inquisition does nothing to change that. Now, me pointing out the screwups of your own people and history make you jump... Do something to change that and stop being so thin-skinned. Besides, an American was the one who posed the original question. I gave him/her my answer. Agur!

Bush´s ¨war on terror¨ is just as horrible as Al Qaeda attacking the WTC. And while I don´t condone nor applaud what happened on September 11, I do not condone nor applaud the subsequent attack and invasion of Iraq either. The Us has a history of getting involved and sticking it´s nose where no one has asked them too.


What is your definition of terrorism? Do you believe the invasion of Germany during world war 2 was terrorism, we bombed the shit out of Germany as well, so regardless of the reasons for going to war, how was that not terrorism (if you think it wasn't)?

What is your definition of terrorism? Do you believe the invasion of Germany during world war 2 was terrorism, we bombed the shit out of Germany as well, so regardless of the reasons for going to war, how was that not terrorism (if you think it wasn't)?

Terrorism is when you strike terror on a country or in a group of people using weapons and causing mayhem to achieve something, be it political or religious or even personal.

The invasion of Germany was also terrorism. It was necessary to invade Germany though. It was, however, not necessary to invade Iraq. The allegations that there were weapons of mass destruction there came out empty. Ah, but taking the oil over there was reason enough.

I want to clarify something that, perhaps, in the heat of the moment and posting, I didn´t. I don´t consider the entire of the US a terrorist country. I don´t think every US citizen is prejudiced or a racist. Many aren´t. But many are.

If my words stung or offended, I whole heartedly apologize. I don´t like being considered unreasonable. And perhaps, by posting the way I did, I´m acting the same as those who I´m critisizing. But I did voiced my opinion. And unless I´m wrong, there´s no rule that states that I can´t do that.

I also want to apologize to Dyakovo for taking the heat of my posts. It was unnecessary to bash him.

Terrorism is when you strike terror on a country or in a group of people using weapons and causing mayhem to achieve something, be it political or religious or even personal.

The invasion of Germany was also terrorism. It was necessary to invade Germany though. It was, however, not necessary to invade Iraq. The allegations that there were weapons of mass destruction there came out empty. Ah, but taking the oil over there was reason enough.

I want to clarify something that, perhaps, in the heat of the moment and posting, I didn´t. I don´t consider the entire of the US a terrorist country. I don´t think every US citizen is prejudiced or a racist. Many aren´t. But many are.

If my words stung or offended, I whole heartedly apologize. I don´t like being considered unreasonable. And perhaps, by posting the way I did, I´m acting the same as those who I´m critisizing. But I did voiced my opinion. And unless I´m wrong, there´s no rule that states that I can´t do that.

I also want to apologize to Dyakovo for taking the heat of my posts. It was unnecessary to bash him.

But when you say this:

"Do remember that Americans are terrorists and believe themselves to be the World Police."

It's very easy to get the wrong impression.

The racists absolutely looove this whole Wright thing with Obama, it finally gives them an opportunity to point out the horrible plight of their oppressed Christian White people...:rolleyes: They are the ultimate hypocrites and opportunists.
Exactly, people are racist as fuck and only a fraction will admit it in the US because it isn't cool to be racist any more. 20% of West Virginians admit race was a factor at the polls? I applaud them for being honest racist assholes, but I bet the actual percentages was 45-60%. If Obama was white, the contest would have been over by Super Tuesday.

But when you say this:

"Do remember that Americans are terrorists and believe themselves to be the World Police."

It's very easy to get the wrong impression.

And for that, I apologize.

If my words stung or offended, I whole heartedly apologize.

If people here dislike my statement: spare me if I'm not sympathetic.:rolleyes:

I'm just going to let these two posts stand right next to each other.

I'm just going to let these two posts stand right next to each other.

Do as you please, mate.

This is not directed at Dyakovo:

I want you all to take a good look at what´s going on in Iraq with the American troops over there, and honestly tell me if what the US army is doing there isn´t terrorism?

No, it's not terrorism. Al-qaeda cells blowing up markets and beheading citizens is though. the Iranian Revolutionary Guard smuggling Iranian made missiles and bombs into Iraq and into the hands of Al Sadrs Militia is. Al Sadrs assault of Iraqi police, Sunni citizens and American troops is. American Troops ridding the country of Hussein and rebuilding the country is not terrorism.

was the war mismanaged for years? absolutely. Is it an act of terrorism, lol, no silly. War is terrifying though, if that's what you mean.

Bush´s ¨war on terror¨ is just as horrible as Al Qaeda attacking the WTC. And while I don´t condone nor applaud what happened on September 11, I do not condone nor applaud the subsequent attack and invasion of Iraq either. The Us has a history of getting involved and sticking it´s nose where no one has asked them too.

If you oppose the war in Iraq for moral or foreign policy reasons, then that is legitimate. But comparing it to 9-11 is absurd and offensive. whatever you may think about Buh, those troops are there to liberate the people of Iraq. were the Madrid bombings an appropriate answer from Al-qaeda (not even Iraqi) to Spains involvement in the iraq war? all those innocent peole? And Al-qaeda continues to threaten Spain even after Zapatera pulled out.

and Every country has a history of sticking their nose in places. alot of what America did was in response to the spread of communism. sometimes america is the only one willing to do anything and yes sometiems America goes too far and should check themselves once in a while. But America helped lbierate europe twice and rebuild Germany and Japan, America kept the South Koreans safe, America keeps Israel from facign another holocaust, America took ont he Soviets whent he europeans were once again talking appeasement, America is taking on the Global threat of Terrorism seriously and it will be America who steps up to a Nuclear Iran. Even Obama suggested going into Pakistan if they don't step it up in the hunt for Bin Laden. America also is always there when a tsunami or earthquake hits and people are in need of help. New Orleans took a while though.

America has made it's mistakes as well though. to stop the spead of communism in south america they trampled on alot of south american citizens...only thinking of their own security. Vietnam became a mismanaged and after pulling out we went against our word in saying that we would protect the south vietmanese if the viet cong invaded again resulting in millions dead. We looked the other way with Apartheid in South Africa and now we are looking the other way with China (though who wants to take on china at the moment?).

You do realize that without an American presence in Iraq, Al-Qaeda will in fact be able to form a more functional base there and will most likely turn their eyes towards Spain again. You may think of the Inquisition as old news but those nuts don't. Zapatera won't even know what hit him.

I don´t condone the jeering and critisizing of Muslim customs because they´re not the same as American. And I saw plenty of that when in MI. (and I do not care if I´m believed or not) I don´t condone the US´s policies on immigrants, just like I hate the ones my own government has crafted against immigrants. I am not blind as to how screwed up my own country is. Many of you, on the other hand, are utterly blind as to what your government and own people do.

Not blind, I just don't consider the war on terror or the war in Iraq a terrorist act. unless you consider all war a terrorist act.

You don't condone the US policy on immigrants? So you don't condone the most accepting and liberal immigration policy in all the world? ok then. As for your own government, Zapatera has dangerously turned a blind eye to illegal immigration, who knows who he is letting into your country with North Africa so close. yet this is your government crafting policies agaisnt them?


As for me feeling guilty for the Spanish Inquisition... give me a break. That happened centuries ago. Plus, I´m just one person. I absolutely love the fact I´m Spanish and European. You mentioning the Inquisition does nothing to change that. Now, me pointing out the screwups of your own people and history make you jump... Do something to change that and stop being so thin-skinned. Besides, an American was the one who posed the original question. I gave him/her my answer. Agur!

seems to have bothered you quite a bit.

No, it's not terrorism. Al-qaeda cells blowing up markets and beheading citizens is though. the Iranian Revolutionary Guard smuggling Iranian made missiles and bombs into Iraq and into the hands of Al Sadrs Militia is. Al Sadrs assault of Iraqi police, Sunni citizens and American troops is. American Troops ridding the country of Hussein and rebuilding the country is not terrorism.

was the war mismanaged for years? absolutely. Is it an act of terrorism, lol, no silly. War is terrifying though, if that's what you mean.



If you oppose the war in Iraq for moral or foreign policy reasons, then that is legitimate. But comparing it to 9-11 is absurd and offensive. whatever you may think about Buh, those troops are there to liberate the people of Iraq. were the Madrid bombings an appropriate answer from Al-qaeda (not even Iraqi) to Spains involvement in the iraq war? all those innocent peole? And Al-qaeda continues to threaten Spain even after Zapatero pulled out.

and Every country has a history of sticking their nose in places. alot of what America did was in response to the spread of communism. sometimes america is the only one willing to do anything and yes sometiems America goes too far and should check themselves once in a while. But America helped lbierate europe twice and rebuild Germany and Japan, America kept the South Koreans safe, America keeps Israel from facign another holocaust, America took ont he Soviets whent he europeans were once again talking appeasement, America is taking on the Global threat of Terrorism seriously and it will be America who steps up to a Nuclear Iran. Even Obama suggested going into Pakistan if they don't step it up in the hunt for Bin Laden. America also is always there when a tsunami or earthquake hits and people are in need of help. New Orleans took a while though.

America has made it's mistakes as well though. to stop the spead of communism in south america they trampled on alot of south american citizens...only thinking of their own security. Vietnam became a mismanaged and after pulling out we went against our word in saying that we would protect the south vietmanese if the viet cong invaded again resulting in millions dead. We looked the other way with Apartheid in South Africa and now we are looking the other way with China (though who wants to take on china at the moment?).

You do realize that without an American presence in Iraq, Al-Qaeda will in fact be able to form a more functional base there and will most likely turn their eyes towards Spain again. You may think of the Inquisition as old news but those nuts don't. Zapatero won't even know what hit him.



Not blind, I just don't consider the war on terror or the war in Iraq a terrorist act. unless you consider all war a terrorist act.

You don't condone the US policy on immigrants? So you don't condone the most accepting and liberal immigration policy in all the world? ok then. As for your own government, Zapatero has dangerously turned a blind eye to illegal immigration, who knows who he is letting into your country with North Africa so close. yet this is your government crafting policies agaisnt them?




seems to have bothered you quite a bit.

As I already posted, my opinion is set with this. I apologized for sounding unreasonable and for offending but again, my opinion on the US (as a country, not about it´s citizens) is not going to change anytime soon.

double post, sorry.

Nanatsu, America is the least of your worries. Know your true enemy.

oh and my fault for misspelling Zapatero's name.

No, it's not terrorism. Al-qaeda cells blowing up markets and beheading citizens is though. the Iranian Revolutionary Guard smuggling Iranian made missiles and bombs into Iraq and into the hands of Al Sadrs Militia is. Al Sadrs assault of Iraqi police, Sunni citizens and American troops is. American Troops ridding the country of Hussein and rebuilding the country is not terrorism.

was the war mismanaged for years? absolutely. Is it an act of terrorism, lol, no silly. War is terrifying though, if that's what you mean.



If you oppose the war in Iraq for moral or foreign policy reasons, then that is legitimate. But comparing it to 9-11 is absurd and offensive. whatever you may think about Bush, those troops are there to liberate the people of Iraq. were the Madrid bombings an appropriate answer from Al-qaeda (not even Iraqi) to Spains involvement in the iraq war? all those innocent peole? And Al-qaeda continues to threaten Spain even after Zapatera pulled out.

and Every country has a history of sticking their nose in places. alot of what America did was in response to the spread of communism. sometimes america is the only one willing to do anything and yes sometiems America goes too far and should check themselves once in a while. But America helped liberate europe twice and rebuild Germany and Japan, America kept the South Koreans safe, America keeps Israel from facing another holocaust, America took on the Soviets when the europeans were once again talking appeasement, America is taking the Global Threat of Terrorism seriously and it will be America who steps up to a Nuclear Iran. America also is always there when a tsunami or earthquake hits and people are in need of help. New Orleans took a while though.

America has made it's mistakes as well though. to stop the spead of communism in south america they trampled on alot of south american citizens...only thinking of their own security. Vietnam became a mismanaged and after pulling out we went against our word in saying that we would protect the south vietmanese if the viet cong invaded again resulting in millions dead. We looked the other way with Apartheid in South Africa and now we are looking the other way with China (though who wants to take on china at the moment?).

as for the Global War on Terror, even Obama suggested going into Pakistan if they don't step it up in the hunt for Bin Laden. If you're against the Global war on Terror then in my opinion you are against safety and reason. afghanistan is thrilled to be rid of Taliban tyranny and no place can be seen as safe harbor to any terrorist. 911 made this a war, not a police matter. The war on terror isn't even controversial to most people, it's the war in Iraq that most have misgivings about.


You do realize that without an American presence in Iraq, Al-Qaeda will in fact be able to form a more functional base there and will most likely turn their eyes towards Spain again. You may think of the Inquisition as old news but those nuts don't. Zapatera won't even know what hit him.



Not blind, I just don't consider the war on terror or the war in Iraq a terrorist act. unless you consider all war a terrorist act.

You don't condone the US policy on immigrants? So you don't condone the most accepting and liberal immigration policy in all the world? ok then. As for your own government, Zapatera has dangerously turned a blind eye to illegal immigration, who knows who he is letting into your country with North Africa so close. yet this is your government crafting policies agaisnt them?




seems to have bothered you quite a bit. You have more to worry about than America, know your true enemies.

Nani? Time warps again?:confused:

double post, sorry.

Nanatsu, America is the least of your worries. Know your true enemy.

oh and my fault for misspelling Zapatero's name.

Nvm that.

Sorry if I offended you, on a personal level. America doesn´t worry me, trust me. I have many things to do on a daily basis. Those do worry me.

Zapatero´s name. Forget it. I do not like him at all. When I established the not condoning his policies is because my government lets the immigrants, once they´ve reached our shore, die or become sick and then deporting without aiding them in the least.

I´m tired now.:p

Back on page 2, several warned of this topic becoming a flame war. At the time, the discussion was even-handed and somewhat factual. But here it is: name calling and broad generalizations that make everyone involved look pretty ignorant. And it's the exact problem we have in America when discussing race.

It starts off sincere and level-headed, but by the third or fourth round of issues, the anger and name calling begins. In fact, due to the furvor about race our national election has stirred up, a major news channel hosted a "dialog" on the subject after showing a documentary on a black man meeting the progeny of those who once owned his ancestors. It began as interesting, but rather quickly became a version of what we see here.

This discussion, colored by the prevasiveness of political correctness in The Western World (I use the term only for its ease; you know I mean US, Canada, ANZ, and most of the EU. EU = the places 80% of Am/Can/ANZ genetically come from.), is almost impossible to hold. Words have to be chosen too carefully, true opinions hidden, and when the frustration becomes too much -- BOOM -- back to 8-year-olds and the "DID. DIDN'T." argument.

Is America having a hard time overcoming its instatutionalized racism? You betcha! That 3/5's of a person thing is hard to live down. Did every other European country that wasn't already under another's imperialistic thumb colonize, commit genocide, and arguably treat "minorities" as poorly or worse than the US did for a longer period of time. Right-o! IS ANYONE blameless, in the historical scheme of things? Don't think so!

So, seeing what seemed to be a sincere question about others' perceptions about a state notoriously demonized as the epitome of racism turn into an America v. The World rant is expected. Sad, but expected. America is no better OR worse than its many father/mother lands, the apple truly not falling far. But to demonize America, which seems to be the thing to do lately and fairly understandable considering the criminal actions of its current administration, while holding almost ANY European country as somehow more pristine on the race issue, is not only laughable, but plain wrong on its face. It may not be such a racist issue as a nationalist or xenophobic one, but it lumps in there well.

To the point of the original question, Mississippi has made greater in-roads toward ending racism than most other states. This must be looked at from a proportional, historical context. It's easy for "northern" states to claim a superior attitude on race relations when, on paper, they didn't have as far to go. And don't be fooled by technical geography, L.A., NYC, Chicago, and Boston idealogically ALL fall well below the Mason-Dixon.

I want you all to take a good look at what´s going on in Iraq with the American troops over there, and honestly tell me if what the US army is doing there isn´t terrorism?I've said the same thing...however, I couldn't join the army if I wanted to, (gay and all...not that I ever would want to). "What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?" couldn't agree more.I don´t condone the jeering and critisizing of Muslim customs because they´re not the same as American.me either. incidentally I founded and lead an interfaith dialogue group at my college and work in a Muslim-owned hotel that doubles as a mosque...again, we're not all Islamophobic warhawks.

Ah, but taking the oil over there was reason enough.

Funny how everyone mentions oil, oil, oil, because we didn't get it, now did we?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=556848

Exactly, SOME people are racist as fuck and only a fraction will admit it in the US because it isn't cool to be racist any more. 20% of West Virginians admit race was a factor at the polls? I applaud them for being honest racist assholes, but I bet the actual percentages was 45-60%. If Obama was white, the contest would have been over by Super Tuesday.

Fixed.

Back on page 2, several warned of this topic becoming a flame war. At the time, the discussion was even-handed and somewhat factual. But here it is: name calling and broad generalizations that make everyone involved look pretty ignorant. And it's the exact problem we have in America when discussing race.

It seems to me, that even though there have very strong comments, everyone has been very civil about it. I don´t see nor feel any flaming being used by the posters. Correct me if I´m wrong.