NationStates Jolt Archive


Should we take more responsibility for our country's problems?

Mephras
14-05-2008, 02:18
I was thumbing through the campus newspaper today, and I found an editorial that was quite interesting.

http://maroon.uchicago.edu/online_edition/article/10357

Yes, I can
By Nathan Bloom
12 May 2008

My wallet used to hold, along with my “organ donor” driver’s license, my credit card–sized Democratic voter registration card from the state of Pennsylvania. That way, if I died suddenly in some horrific car crash, at least everyone would know that I cared about the poor.

Preposterous? Of course. Rooting for the right team in politics is obviously no substitute for moral action. Only I am not alone in my fallacy. As Syracuse professor Arthur C. Brooks has discovered, conservatives give 30 percent more to charity than liberals do, even though liberal families take in 6 percent more income. Similarly, those who reject the idea that “government has a responsibility to reduce income inequality” give an average of four times more than people who accept it. Between 2000 and 2004, Barack and Michelle Obama gave less than 1 percent of their income to charity, substantially less than the national average.

Senator Obama has a wonderful message that he conveys from time to time to temper the feverishness of the personality cult surrounding his campaign: The fate of the nation depends far more on the 300 million people who constitute it than on the one president who leads it. He deserves credit for confounding those who, out of despair or laziness, would place the sum of their hopes for progress on the shoulders of an external redeemer. But what he gives with one hand, he takes away with the other. His “Yes, we can!” message of collective empowerment is far more likely to enervate than to empower.

Look no further than Obama himself. How could a self-described champion of the less fortunate—who along with his wife brings in more than four times the national median income—sacrifice so little of his own wealth to provide tangible assistance to those he professes to care about? There is little reason to doubt the man’s sincerity or compassion, only the wisdom of his choice to confuse advocacy with action. It is incredibly easy to convince oneself that the high road to virtue is paved not with moral action but with uplifting symbols. Yes, we can—just not me, the other guy. Yes, we can—just not now, but when I get elected. That’s the problem with community, with being united: What harm is there in taking a tiny shortcut myself when the guy shouting next to me at the 30,000-strong rally is surely just as committed as I am to positive change? A few rationalizations later, and one hard-hitting crowd is nothing but 30,000 people taking refuge in 30,000 other people.

Obama views the tremendous outpouring of enthusiasm for his campaign as an encouraging sign of vigor in a depressed nation. More likely it is a sign of laziness, a cheap substitute for everyday goods like giving to charity and respecting one’s parents that, while often painful, are undeniably right and undeniably effective in improving life on this earth. For most, myself included, politics is merely a higher form of escapism. How much more pleasant it is to think that, just like in Baghdad, the Abode of Peace, a change in government will work wonders for society.

New York Times columnist David Brooks and many others have pointed to the enormous “happiness gap” in the U.S. today, namely that while 65 percent of Americans are satisfied with the quality of their own lives, only 25 percent are satisfied with the state of the nation as a whole. And how very convenient this gap is. How much better to think that the “system” is at fault—the lobbyists, the “special interests,” the politicians—for what is wrong in this country. And yet, as Hillary Clinton actually once felt compelled to point out, lobbyists are people, too. The “special interests” are people also; even the accursed members of the Bush administration and the pitiable Congress are nothing but people. What gives us the right to be so happy with ourselves and yet so indignant toward our elected leaders and our institutions?

No sane politician will ever say this, but it really is about us. We are what’s wrong with our country. And unless we university students exert ourselves to be ethical, to overcome our individual as well as our collective weaknesses, we will give rise to the next generation of Dick Cheneys, Eliot Spitzers, and Kenneth Lays.

The last thing this country needs is for more public figures to win our hearts with vicarious virtue—more moral crutches to cling to that distract us from what each of us can do, this instant, in accordance with the highest ideals we set for ourselves. When will “Yes, we can” become “Yes, I can”?

Nathan Bloom is a third-year in the College majoring in NELC.

I think he makes some very good points about advocacy and action. I'll admit I'm guilty of what he says in the article. I know he talks about Obama (who I support), but I don't think that's the main point. It is more that all too often we don't really even try to live up to our ideals or change what we see is wrong. People like to whine and moan about things, but all to often you see no action at all. I'll even admit I am most likely not going to change, but I probably should stop complaining about things if I don't. Of course there are obstacles and we can't be expected to change the world, but that doesn't excuse us from trying.

As Gandhi said, "Be the change you want to see in the world."

So NSG, do you agree? disagree? Do you defy the statistics as a generous, giving liberal and are therefore exempt from reproach?
Conserative Morality
14-05-2008, 02:23
I'm a generous giving Classic Liberal, if that counts...
New Malachite Square
14-05-2008, 02:26
And unless we university students exert ourselves to be ethical, to overcome our individual as well as our collective weaknesses, we will give rise to the next generation of Dick Cheneys, Eliot Spitzers, and Kenneth Lays.

:rolleyes:
I'll never understand why that guy was so maligned. Nor Clinton, I suppose.
Mephras
14-05-2008, 02:35
:rolleyes:
I'll never understand why that guy was so maligned. Nor Clinton, I suppose.

For me it's not a morality question. I have no problem with what Clinton did. With Spitzer it's more about the illegality and the hypocrisy of condemning it and engaging in it.

EDIT: Well, I do have problems with it morally, with regards to their wives and families, but politically no.
[NS]Western Masada
14-05-2008, 02:46
So NSG, do you agree? disagree? Do you defy the statistics as a generous, giving liberal and are therefore exempt from reproach?

I agree. No I do not, and no one is ever exempt.
greed and death
14-05-2008, 02:49
I got it figured out...


Cut tax rates fro republicans 30% since they will give more of their money to charity.

Meanwhile raise tax rates on democrats 30% since they want the goverment to handle the issue for them.

do this will allow the goverment to increase spending on social services and allow private charities do more work at the same time.


It is a win win situation.
Callisdrun
14-05-2008, 02:56
I got it figured out...


Cut tax rates fro republicans 30% since they will give more of their money to charity.

Meanwhile raise tax rates on democrats 30% since they want the goverment to handle the issue for them.

do this will allow the goverment to increase spending on social services and allow private charities do more work at the same time.


It is a win win situation.

Okay.
Mephras
14-05-2008, 03:00
I got it figured out...


Cut tax rates fro republicans 30% since they will give more of their money to charity.

Meanwhile raise tax rates on democrats 30% since they want the goverment to handle the issue for them.

do this will allow the goverment to increase spending on social services and allow private charities do more work at the same time.


It is a win win situation.

I think you'd see a large increase in the number of registered Republicans;) .

And I really don't think it's a republican democrat issue, it's more about talking the talk and walking the walk, no matter what your beliefs are.
greed and death
14-05-2008, 03:03
I think you'd see a large increase in the number of registered Republicans;) .

And I really don't think it's a republican democrat issue, it's more about talking the talk and walking the walk, no matter what your beliefs are.

well track their voting and tie the tax decreases/ increases to that...

that way those who vote for tax increases pay more taxes and those who vote for tax decreases pay less taxes.
Knights of Liberty
14-05-2008, 03:05
well track their voting and tie the tax decreases/ increases to that...

that way those who vote for tax increases pay more taxes and those who vote for tax decreases pay less taxes.

Track their voting?



Yes! Lets violate a cornorstone of our demcracy.


Wow. GTFO.
greed and death
14-05-2008, 03:08
Track their voting?



Yes! Lets violate a cornorstone of our demcracy.


Wow. GTFO.

i think democracy works better if people knows how you voted.

besides it would only be used for Tax purposes to prevent democrats from registering as a republican only to pay lower taxes.
Knights of Liberty
14-05-2008, 03:09
i think democracy works better if people knows how you voted.

besides it would only be used for Tax purposes to prevent democrats from registering as a republican only to pay lower taxes.

There are a great deal of examples showing you that democracies do not work better when people know how you voted. Quite the opposite in fact.


So you can think it all you want. You, however, would be wrong.
greed and death
14-05-2008, 03:12
There are a great deal of examples showing you that democracies do not work better when people know how you voted. Quite the opposite in fact.


So you can think it all you want. You, however, would be wrong.

worked well in my class where we voted by raising your hand.

also think of the voter fraud it would cut down on.
the whole Florida incident would have never happened just call up everyone that voted and verify their votes.
Knights of Liberty
14-05-2008, 03:14
worked well in my class where we voted by raising your hand.

also think of the voter fraud it would cut down on.
the whole Florida incident would have never happened just call up everyone that voted and verify their votes.

Hah! Yes, the fact that in your high school class an open vote worked shows clearly that all of history is wrong, and that an open vote works best. Wow. You really refuted my arguement:rolleyes:
Mephras
14-05-2008, 03:19
Again, the point really isn't Yay republicans Boo democrats, so I'd appreciate it if you kept the fighting to a minimum. The reason democrats are singled out is that their political philosophy is seemingly more in line with charitable action compared to Republicans, although the results are different. The author himself admits to being a democrat.
greed and death
14-05-2008, 03:26
Hah! Yes, the fact that in your high school class an open vote worked shows clearly that all of history is wrong, and that an open vote works best. Wow. You really refuted my arguement:rolleyes:

Case in point i don't think anyone would have voted for bush if anyone would have know about it.

also all the rigged elections are secret ballot. Can't really rig a election when voting records are available.
Skalvia
14-05-2008, 07:09
Well...At Nineteen there's not a lot of power to do much of anything...

Just Voting, which aint shit when you get down to it, only Electoral College and Party Delegates hold that power...

One day i hope to get into Politics though, I want to spearhead an attack on the Two-Party System...
Lacidar
14-05-2008, 18:49
I got it figured out...


Cut tax rates fro republicans 30% since they will give more of their money to charity.

Meanwhile raise tax rates on democrats 30% since they want the goverment to handle the issue for them.

do this will allow the goverment to increase spending on social services and allow private charities do more work at the same time.


It is a win win situation.

Heh, yeah. How about giving everyone the same tax rate, and those people that believe in income redistribution to help those less fortunate can voluntarily do what they advocate. Fact is, most won't, so their social policies are of course immediately suspect.

Mandating something you will not do voluntarily is absurd.
Firstistan
14-05-2008, 19:46
Heh, yeah. How about giving everyone the same tax rate, and those people that believe in income redistribution to help those less fortunate can voluntarily do what they advocate. Fact is, most won't, so their social policies are of course immediately suspect.

Mandating something you will not do voluntarily is absurd.

Bingo. You'll notice that almost all of those who favor higher taxes never take advantage of the fact that anyone can pay more than their income tax requires, or NOT accept their refund check, OR donate their refund check to the government institution of their choice.

When I can afford to, I send my refund to NASA. There's also a special account to help pay the National Debt.
Sirmomo1
14-05-2008, 20:34
Heh, yeah. How about giving everyone the same tax rate, and those people that believe in income redistribution to help those less fortunate can voluntarily do what they advocate. Fact is, most won't, so their social policies are of course immediately suspect.

Mandating something you will not do voluntarily is absurd.

There's a difference between actions on a group level and actions on an individual level.

Case in point i don't think anyone would have voted for bush if anyone would have know about it.


They might have if Bush supporters went around bribing or threatening people.
Yootopia
14-05-2008, 20:43
Should we take more responsibility for our country's problems?

Only if you're causing them. Otherwise, stop bloody fretting.
New Limacon
14-05-2008, 21:32
I agree with the overarching idea of the piece. (I don't see how enthusiasm for anything could equal laziness, but I'll ignore that.) On one hand, there are the self-fulfilling prophets who believe that the government is not really for the people...and don't actively participate in the government. On the other hand, many people see being politically active as the ethical equivalent of, say, volunteering at a soup kitchen or giving to charity. That's not really true, either. A truly democratic and compassionate society is somewhere in between.
Basically, I think Jimmy Carter was right (http://www2.volstate.edu/geades/FinalDocs/1970s&beyond/malaise.htm).
Tech-gnosis
14-05-2008, 22:53
Heh, yeah. How about giving everyone the same tax rate, and those people that believe in income redistribution to help those less fortunate can voluntarily do what they advocate. Fact is, most won't, so their social policies are of course immediately suspect.

Mandating something you will not do voluntarily is absurd.

Bullshit. Eliminating taxation and funding the government solely through voluntary contributions would result in most people giving low contributions if any at all for all policies. Taxation is a way to solve this collective action problem.