NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2008/05/12/pn.ged.dad.jailed.cnn (a video for the lazy people who don't want to read)

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=28d2acca-9947-44cc-8831-9859f1f6137e

A Fairfield man is in jail because his daughter hasn't gotten her General Equivalency Diploma (GED).

A judge ordered the father to stay on top of his daughter's education months ago and when that order wasn't followed, Brian Gegner was sentenced to 180-days in the Butler County jail.

The daughter, Brittany Gegner, says her father shouldn't be punished for her problems.

Especially, she says because she's now 18, an adult.

"It's ridiculously wrong," said Brittany Gegner.

"Of all the punishments they could have given him, to make him go to jail?," she asked. "I mean, probation – until I get my GED – would be reasonable, but to send him to jail? That's overboard."

Butler County Juvenile Court Judge David Niehaus ordered Gegner to jail for contributing to the delinquency of a minor by not following a court order which required Gegner to be sure his daughter got her GED.

This comes after ongoing problems of Brittany skipping classes at Fairfield High School and then, Butler Tech.

While Brian Gegner had custody of her, Brittany says it was while she lived with her mother that she was truant.

"I'm about to be 19 and my Dad's being punished for something I did when I was 16," she said.

"It's like I should, if anybody should be punished for this," said Brittany. "I would way rather me go to jail than my Dad."

"They probably should have punished me if they were going to punish anybody," said Brittany's mother Shana Roach. "Because she did live with me at the time, but because he had the custody, that's why he's being punished."

"But I don't understand the punishment all together because she's going to school, she's been going for four months," said Roach. "The only thing that's holding her back is she can't pass her math test."

Brittany has a daughter who's about 18-months-old.

She says she's determined to pass the GED for her daughter – and her father.

The judge says if she passes the test, her father could get out of jail before his six-months sentence is up.

Brittany's step-mother worries the time in jail will ruin their family.

She says he could lose the job he's worked for 15-years.

"I never dreamed they would put him in jail for this – for six months – it's crazy," said Stephanie Gegner, Brittany's step-mother.

"He has no control over what his adult daughter does," she said. "He just doesn't."

Court administrators say that even though Brittany is an adult now, the case remains active in their court because she was a juvenile when the problems started.

They say this type of punishment is rare and reserved for extreme cases when court orders aren't met.

I don't understand this at all:
"Court administrators say that even though Brittany is an adult now, the case remains active in their court because she was a juvenile when the problems started." Since I am no legal expert, maybe someone can give me a yes or no on whether this would be true. Since that girl could still be held accountable in the court for when she was a juvenile, does that mean a person who commits a murder at 15 or 16 and is caught and put on trial for that murder when they are 20, will be charged as juveniles? Because according to what I am getting from the court statement, that would be "logical".

Anyway, way to go judge. You tried to help out a girl that doesn't seem to want it, and you end up ruining the life of a man. I can just imagine the guy in prison. "What are you here for" "Murder" "Theft" "My daughter was truant when she was 16"

What an uttely, utterly idiotic court.

What an uttely, utterly idiotic court.

Ditto. Jail the daughter for being a lazy-ass. Besides, at 17-18 years of age, getting your homework done and studying is your own resposibilty, not your parents's.

Wow...I'm appalled...

well, hopefully the appeals court will be able to sort this out, and whatever oversight mechanism they have will come down hard on this judge.

Ditto. Jail the daughter for being a lazy-ass. Besides, at 17-18 years of age, getting your homework done and studying is your own resposibilty, not your parents's.

How about we jail neither of them? I dont think prison time is a good consequence for failing a test...


EDIT: As an aside, I at first read GED as GRE, and thought "How did someone that stupid and laazy get into grad school?!?"

:p

Wow, its so stupid, she's responsible, not her dad, and they can make him to lose his job, they are so stupid.

:gundge: <lol, its from UT (unreal tournament)

Er... what the hell? This makes no sense at all. Jail time shouldn't have even been an option. There has to be some reason for such an extreme sentence, but I can not even rationalize what that might be.

I... dont know what to even say about this...

There are many reasons to jail a man - this isn't one of them.

I don't believe jailing the daughter for being lazy would help anything either.

How about we jail neither of them? I dont think prison time is a good consequence for failing a test...


EDIT: As an aside, I at first read GED as GRE, and thought "How did someone that stupid and laazy get into grad school?!?"

:p

The jail time mention was just a figure of speech.;) I do find this news extremely idiotic. Jail time for child failing to get the GED...:rolleyes:

NOTE: It's a shame but some very stupid people do actually get into grad school. The world is full of those idiots.:p

...

I'm not getting this... They're jailing her FATHER... For his daughter not getting her GED when she was with her mother... And both the mother in question and the daughter both admit it's their fault?

http://lolcat.net/d/1188-1/justice.jpg

You've got to be really, really goddamn stupid to fail your GED test. Come to think of it, I wonder if the people on this court might have similar deficiencies...

Wow. This judge is quite the dumbass. I wonder how long his dad had to stay in jail for.

i dont know how just the original sentence was. it must have been somewhat OK since it wasnt appealed and tossed out.

but he didnt do what he was ordered to do. so he has to face the alternate punishment. his daughter passing into adulthood doesnt change that he failed to do what he was supposed to do.

it's for a GED, that means the daughter did NOT graduate (for whatever reason is not known.)

the Article hints at more to the story (such as what was behind the original ruling) but doesn't say what.

HE (the father) had custody, so he's the one responsible for his daughter... reguardless on where she was actually living.

too much missing for me to make any comment on it.

I'm....mixed, here. On one hand, a parent does have a degree of responsibility, and a court can issue a court order forcing you to take that responsibility, and if you fail to take that responsibility that the court has ordered you to take, then you've violated a court order. Violating a court order is a crime, and it gets you sent to jail.

So on the surface, if we distill the facts to that (dad was told by the court to take responsibility and ensure his daughter received a full education, dad failed to do so as evidenced by his daughter failing an exam, thus dad didn't do what the court told him to) it's not that unusual.

What I find curious, and the question I have, is whether the court considered the daughter failing the exam as presumptive evidence that the father failed in his obligation to ensure her daughter received a good education. Is the mere fact that she failed sufficient to demonstrate that? What if she's just dumb, and couldn't pass regardless of his efforts.

That's what I'd need to know more of, what, exactly, was considered evidence of violation of the order

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2008/05/12/pn.ged.dad.jailed.cnn (a video for the lazy people who don't want to read)

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=28d2acca-9947-44cc-8831-9859f1f6137e



I don't understand this at all:
"Court administrators say that even though Brittany is an adult now, the case remains active in their court because she was a juvenile when the problems started." Since I am no legal expert, maybe someone can give me a yes or no on whether this would be true. Since that girl could still be held accountable in the court for when she was a juvenile, does that mean a person who commits a murder at 15 or 16 and is caught and put on trial for that murder when they are 20, will be charged as juveniles? Because according to what I am getting from the court statement, that would be "logical".

Anyway, way to go judge. You tried to help out a girl that doesn't seem to want it, and you end up ruining the life of a man. I can just imagine the guy in prison. "What are you here for" "Murder" "Theft" "My daughter was truant when she was 16"

I believe a Juvenile is not held responsible for their actions in normal circumstances, but their parents are.

Murder is one of the exceptions. if the 16 year old is caught for murder, that juvie can be tried as an adult.

once that person hit 20, it's moot, he will be tried as an adult even tho the crime was committed when he was a juvie.

I'm....mixed, here. On one hand, a parent does have a degree of responsibility, and a court can issue a court order forcing you to take that responsibility, and if you fail to take that responsibility that the court has ordered you to take, then you've violated a court order. Violating a court order is a crime, and it gets you sent to jail.

So on the surface, if we distill the facts to that (dad was told by the court to take responsibility and ensure his daughter received a full education, dad failed to do so as evidenced by his daughter failing an exam, thus dad didn't do what the court told him to) it's not that unusual.

What I find curious, and the question I have, is whether the court considered the daughter failing the exam as presumptive evidence that the father failed in his obligation to ensure her daughter received a good education. Is the mere fact that she failed sufficient to demonstrate that? What if she's just dumb, and couldn't pass regardless of his efforts.

That's what I'd need to know more of, what, exactly, was considered evidence of violation of the order

as a parent of a former teenager, i can tell you that its pretty much impossible to get a teen to do what they are dead set against doing.

as in "you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink"

so its probably ridiculous to force the parent to do anything more than making sure that the child goes to school in the morning. what she gets out of it is up to her.

[QUOTE=JuNii;13690543
once that person hit 20, it's moot, he will be tried as an adult even tho the crime was committed when he was a juvie.[/QUOTE]

Incorrect. It can, and has happened, that an adult has been tried in juvenile court for crimes committed while he was a juvenile, years after the fact when he became an adult.

I read the title as 'Dad Jailed daughter for failing GED test'. I thought this was going to be about some judge who sent his daughter to prison for failing a test.

There's something very suspect here.

Incorrect. It can, and has happened, that an adult has been tried in juvenile court for crimes committed while he was a juvenile, years after the fact when he became an adult.

ah, my mistake then.

what was the crime and punishment? (if you remember that is)

Isn't there a statute of limitations on truancy laws?

For the father to be serving jail time, there has GOT to be more to this case.

http://www.ohiobar.org/pub/lycu/index.asp?articleid=282


And "months ago"? If she's about to be 19, then she was legally an adult when the order was made, and unless she's been declared legally incompetent (or the like), that judge fucked up -- she's not a minor, so her father is not responsible for her in regard to the court order he's been jailed for violating.



"Q.: What can happen if the student’s caretaker is found guilty?
A.: The person or persons responsible for the student may be fined up to $500, required to perform up to 70 hours of community service, or both. The repeated failure to make sure a truant student attends school also may result in criminal charges, a misdemeanor in the first degree, for contributing to the delinquency of a student. In addition, if a child is adjudicated unruly or delinquent for habitual or chronic truancy, the juvenile court may require the parent, guardian or custodian to participate in a community service or truancy prevention mediation program and either a parental education or training program."

I'm....mixed, here. On one hand, a parent does have a degree of responsibility, and a court can issue a court order forcing you to take that responsibility, and if you fail to take that responsibility that the court has ordered you to take, then you've violated a court order. Violating a court order is a crime, and it gets you sent to jail.

So on the surface, if we distill the facts to that (dad was told by the court to take responsibility and ensure his daughter received a full education, dad failed to do so as evidenced by his daughter failing an exam, thus dad didn't do what the court told him to) it's not that unusual.

What I find curious, and the question I have, is whether the court considered the daughter failing the exam as presumptive evidence that the father failed in his obligation to ensure her daughter received a good education. Is the mere fact that she failed sufficient to demonstrate that? What if she's just dumb, and couldn't pass regardless of his efforts.

That's what I'd need to know more of, what, exactly, was considered evidence of violation of the order

It gets more interesting when you see the timeline of events:
http://cincymoms.cincinnati.com/f/ShowThread.aspx?tid=49066&cid=15&fid=94

He was given the order regarding her GED after she was already an adult.

This order was given after the court ordered him to remove her from school...

This order came after she turned 18, because during a earlier trial, he was ordered to enroll her in the fall (between the case in June, and the case in February, she turned 18 in August)...

So what we have here, is a family/juvenile court, ordering a dad to jail for 6 months, because his adult daughter has not obtained a GED, which was ordered by a court (when the daughter was already an adult), upon the father.

I think what we actually have here, is a rogue element of the legal system... This courts jurisdiction ended the moment the girl's legal status shifted from minor to adult... The court does not seem to have taken any action changing the daughters legal status, so I would question not only the competency of the judge, but of the ENTIRE family/court system and related administrative offices of the ENTIRE municipality.

It gets more interesting when you see the timeline of events:
http://cincymoms.cincinnati.com/f/ShowThread.aspx?tid=49066&cid=15&fid=94

He was given the order regarding her GED after she was already an adult.

This order was given after the court ordered him to remove her from school...

This order came after she turned 18, because during a earlier trial, he was ordered to enroll her in the fall (between the case in June, and the case in February, she turned 18 in August)...

So what we have here, is a family/juvenile court, ordering a dad to jail for 6 months, because his adult daughter has not obtained a GED, which was ordered by a court (when the daughter was already an adult), upon the father.

I think what we actually have here, is a rogue element of the legal system... This courts jurisdiction ended the moment the girl's legal status shifted from minor to adult... The court does not seem to have taken any action changing the daughters legal status, so I would question not only the competency of the judge, but of the ENTIRE family/court system and related administrative offices of the ENTIRE municipality.


Thats what I read too. The court is also ordering the parents to make their ADULT daughter do something, and the parents no longer have legal jurisdiction over her unless she has been ruled incompetent and placed back in their care.

The way I see it is, this judge is a complete idiot.

that will learn him for having a daughter who does perfectly normal things :mad:

of course what we don't know is that the father actually turned up on the test day and beat his daughter repeatedly round the head with a shovel to make her fail!

You've got to be really, really goddamn stupid to fail your GED test. Come to think of it, I wonder if the people on this court might have similar deficiencies...

that seems like the talk of someone who is going to wake up in a cubicle soon with this girl as his boss :p

It gets more interesting when you see the timeline of events:
http://cincymoms.cincinnati.com/f/ShowThread.aspx?tid=49066&cid=15&fid=94

He was given the order regarding her GED after she was already an adult.

This order was given after the court ordered him to remove her from school...

This order came after she turned 18, because during a earlier trial, he was ordered to enroll her in the fall (between the case in June, and the case in February, she turned 18 in August)...

So what we have here, is a family/juvenile court, ordering a dad to jail for 6 months, because his adult daughter has not obtained a GED, which was ordered by a court (when the daughter was already an adult), upon the father.

I think what we actually have here, is a rogue element of the legal system... This courts jurisdiction ended the moment the girl's legal status shifted from minor to adult... The court does not seem to have taken any action changing the daughters legal status, so I would question not only the competency of the judge, but of the ENTIRE family/court system and related administrative offices of the ENTIRE municipality.

ah, but let's look at the full 'crime'.

From the Cincymom site (my comments in red)
My brother, Brian Gegner, was sentenced Wednesday by the Butler County Juvenile Court to 180 days in jail because his daughter, Brittany, who will be 19 years old in August, has not obtained her GED. Have you ever heard of such a thing?!

Brian was appointed Brittany's primary custodial parent when she was three years old. As a teenager, Brittany had truancy problems. Brian and his wife did everything they could to keep Brittany in school during this time, short of handcuffing themselves to her and attending school with her. so the truancy is a long standing problem.

At the age of 17, Brittany became pregnant and chose to move herself and her boyfriend into her biological mother's home. Her mother then enrolled her into another school. It was 5 months before Brittany's 18th birthday so Brian decided maybe this would be a good change for Brittany. Perhaps she would attend school while living with her mother. However, she did not last at that school, either. so she moved in with her biological mother, but the FATHER still is responsible.

Brittany had a court hearing in March 2007 regarding her truancy. She was told to return to school the next day, which she did, but not for long. while she was 17.

She returned to court on June 1, 2007, which is when Brian was told he would go to jail for contributing to the delinquency of a minor if Brittany did not return to school in the Fall. while she was 17

On August 23, 2007 Brittany turned 18 years old. Then she turned 18.

She returned to juvenile court, although she was now 18, on August 29th. The court then ordered Brian to take Brittany out of school, and told Brittany to get her GED before the next court date or her father would go to jail.yet the 'crime' is still on going thus still falls in the juvie system.

Brittany had her baby in November 2007.

By the next court date, February 13, 2008, Brittany was taking her GED classes but could not pass parts of the test. so between August and Feb her acedemic performace was not satisfactory... and note, she was ordered to get her GED BEFORE her next court date.

Then today, May 7, 2008, she still had not obtained her GED because she continued to fail the mathematics section of the test, so Brian was remanded for 180 days. He was not given the option of paying a fine, or a combination of a fine, community service, and jail time. so after another 3-4 months she still hasn't gotten her GED.

If Brian is kept in jail for 180 days, he will get out after Brittany celebrates her 19th birthday.

Of course those who know Brian wonder how the Judge could do this to a man who was granted custody of his children, raised them to the best of his ability, has been an employee for the same company for 15 years, a loving husband, is not a drug addict, thief, child molester, dog beater, etc. How can the court hold him responsible for the actions of another adult? Brittany is definitely not the one being punished for her actions. And, Brian's ex, the mother of his two children, owes him $15,000 in back child support but has never spent an hour in jail!

Brian was charged with contributing to the delinquency of a child....a misdemeanor punishable up to 180 days in jail...the maximum sentence. In this case, 180 days seems extremely excessive given that Brian has no control over the course of action Brittany, an adult mother who owns her own home, chooses to take.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that Brian had a court appointed attorney.

Of course Brian's wife is devastated. How much would you lose if your husband was thrown into jail for 6 months? His income, his employment, the car, the house. And you can imagine the loneliness she feels, the tears she cries everyday. And Brian has another daughter still at home, missing her Dad.

You can view more about this story on wcpo.com

Anyone have "difficult" teenagers? What's your opinion?
so while the order to get the GED came after she turned 18, it was during an ongoing case that began when she turned into a teenager. while a Juvies record is cleaned when they turn 18, it doesn't mean that any case currently being worked on just suddenly stops.

Well, she's gotta be pretty dumb.

My cousin paid me 50$ to do her GED for her, I was 13 or 14 at the time. She passed with flying colors.

this kind of stuff is so ridiculous...these courts are crazy to do this kind of shit

Incorrect. It can, and has happened, that an adult has been tried in juvenile court for crimes committed while he was a juvenile, years after the fact when he became an adult.Yeah, the German legal system generally tries people according to their age and, in the case of 18 to 21 year olds, their maturity. That a justice system can try someone as an adult for what they did as a juvenile strikes me as barbaric.