NationStates Jolt Archive

So many major religions and tribal traditions have ages that cycle through as do many fantasy novels inspired by these myths. These often last thousands of years, tens of thousands of years. Most of the Christian and Islamic traditions believe in a final end of the world (and I presume the Universe along with it?)

So we are seeing some MAJOR disasters with very high death tolls, icecaps melting, all sorts of strange things happening. People have always cried doomsday, but it is starting to be so often that one could almost say the Earth is angry as funny as that sounds.

100,000 death in Myanmar, perhaps more. Now an earthquake in China killing 10,000, probably more. Numerous disasters throughout the past 4 years more than usual I would say at least in scale.

Any thoughts? I do not like the constant Apocalyptic ranting of many other Christians who feel they will be somehow removed from it all and the "nonbelievers" will suffer on Earth while they are raptured up to heaven. So not meaning to sound like them. Though there are many others who believe we are coming into a new age.

A new age? No... It is a NEW ERA!









Of loneliness. Oh god...

I just hope I have time to bake an appropriate cake. :)

The Mayan calendar does not predict the end of the world in 2012. It predicts the end of the most recent baktun in 2012. The last baktun ended in the early 17th century, and as far as I know it did not have any meaningful effects on the development of the world. As a matter of fact, the 400 years following it saw more progress and development than the past 1,400...

Not to mention there were earthquakes in years past that killed well over 800,000; the stuff we're seeing today is a drop in the bucket compared to the massive death and suffering of years past.

Eveyone knows that the world wont end until 2029 when the Singularity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity) occurs as humans become one with the emotional machines.

Not to mention there were earthquakes in years past that killed well over 800,000; the stuff we're seeing today is a drop in the bucket compared to the massive death and suffering of years past.

The question I always ask is: What the hell did the dinosaurs do that was so bad?

Catastrophes happen or, using more scientific terminology for this phenomena:

Shit happens.

The Mayan calendar does not predict the end of the world in 2012. It predicts the end of the most recent baktun in 2012. The last baktun ended in the early 17th century, and as far as I know it did not have any meaningful effects on the development of the world. As a matter of fact, the 400 years following it saw more progress and development than the past 1,400...

Not to mention there were earthquakes in years past that killed well over 800,000; the stuff we're seeing today is a drop in the bucket compared to the massive death and suffering of years past.

Very interesting! Perhaps each baktun has a different sort of transition positive or negative? Though just a unit of measurement.

On another reflection, it is interesting how the Hindus, Buddhists, and even apparently the Mayan people reflect more on the "bigger picture" while the Abrahamic religions seem more world-focused on the current time always. Like the acknowledgment of many worlds, and a wider universe by the former as opposed to the more focus on just the Earth by the latter.

I just hope I have time to bake an appropriate cake. :)

Maybe I'll hire someone to make one. I do hope they'll have enough time. Would it be tacky to get a verse from Revelations on it? :p

The end of this age is when oil becomes uneconomical to retrieve and when we inevitably realize that industrial capitalism is based on the ecologically unsustainable use of resources. Then we can either degenerate into nihilism ("After me, the deluge"), or we can figure something else out. Then we will be in a different age.

But the world will not end until the sun becomes a red giant. :)

Very interesting! Perhaps each baktun has a different sort of transition positive or negative? Though just a unit of measurement.

Yes, that's one of the things that interests me. I know for a fact that the Hindu calendar has distinct positive and negative phases of development, so perhaps a similar system existed in their calendar.

On another reflection, it is interesting how the Hindus, Buddhists, and even apparently the Mayan people reflect more on the "bigger picture" while the Abrahamic religions seem more world-focused on the current time always. Like the acknowledgment of many worlds, and a wider universe by the former as opposed to the more focus on just the Earth by the latter.

Oh, yes, they do have a very interesting perspective on the matter. One that's more accurate than that perceived by the Abrahamic religions, at least in my book.

(I'd love to discuss this further, but I need to get to bed).

100,000 death in Myanmar, perhaps more. Now an earthquake in China killing 10,000, probably more. Numerous disasters throughout the past 4 years more than usual I would say at least in scale.

Unfortunately, the only natural distaster Wikipedia list I can find that lists fatalities: List of earthquakes throughout history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_earthquakes).

It's not the end of the world. We're just better informed.

Of loneliness. Oh god...

*befriends*

The question I always ask is: What the hell did the dinosaurs do that was so bad?

They were all sinners. Oh, wait, dinosaurs predate original sin. My bad.

Very interesting! Perhaps each baktun has a different sort of transition positive or negative? Though just a unit of measurement.

On another reflection, it is interesting how the Hindus, Buddhists, and even apparently the Mayan people reflect more on the "bigger picture" while the Abrahamic religions seem more world-focused on the current time always. Like the acknowledgment of many worlds, and a wider universe by the former as opposed to the more focus on just the Earth by the latter.

The whole cyclical thing never went well with me. Like "this has all happened before and will happen again" ala Battlestar Galatica.

Like "this has all happened before and will happen again" ala Battlestar Galatica.

… re-runs?

So many major religions and tribal traditions have ages that cycle through as do many fantasy novels inspired by these myths. These often last thousands of years, tens of thousands of years. Most of the Christian and Islamic traditions believe in a final end of the world (and I presume the Universe along with it?)

So we are seeing some MAJOR disasters with very high death tolls, icecaps melting, all sorts of strange things happening. People have always cried doomsday, but it is starting to be so often that one could almost say the Earth is angry as funny as that sounds.

100,000 death in Myanmar, perhaps more. Now an earthquake in China killing 10,000, probably more. Numerous disasters throughout the past 4 years more than usual I would say at least in scale.

Any thoughts? I do not like the constant Apocalyptic ranting of many other Christians who feel they will be somehow removed from it all and the "nonbelievers" will suffer on Earth while they are raptured up to heaven. So not meaning to sound like them. Though there are many others who believe we are coming into a new age.

It is my understanding that the Maya simply needed a stopping point for their calander, and 12/12/'12 was it. The "end" of the Long Count has no great mythic apocalyptic meaning. Said meaning has been attatched to it by a bunch of pseudo-scholars who are out to make a buck.

Here's the Mayan scholars side:

But scholars are bristling at attempts to link the ancient Maya with trends in contemporary spirituality. Maya civilization, known for advanced writing, mathematics and astronomy, flourished for centuries in Mesoamerica, especially between A.D. 300 and 900. Its Long Count calendar, which was discontinued under Spanish colonization, tracks more than 5,000 years, then resets at year zero.

"For the ancient Maya, it was a huge celebration to make it to the end of a whole cycle," says Sandra Noble, executive director of the Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies in Crystal River, Fla. To render Dec. 21, 2012, as a doomsday or moment of cosmic shifting, she says, is "a complete fabrication and a chance for a lot of people to cash in."
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2007-03-27-maya-2012_n.htm

And the astronomer's side":

Conclusion

My conclusion is that a new period of 13 baktuns in the Long Count of the Maya probably begins on 21 December 2012, but that we should not expect any special phenomena in the sky that are tied to that beginning.

It seems unlikely to me that the Maya tried to design their Long Count in such a way that the new period would start on a southern solstice in the middle of the Milky Way in their distant future, though it is not impossible.

If the Maya did design their Long Count with that conjunction in mind, then I do not think that they had enough knowledge to be able to predict the correct day of the conjunction accurately to better than a few dozen years, so if any special phenomena could be expected on the exact day of the conjunction, then they would probably not be visible on (or not visible just one) 21 December 2012.

I think that the beginning of a new period in the Long Count of the Maya in 2012 is just as unimportant as the 6000th anniversary of the Biblical creation date (celebrated in 1996), or the planetary conjunction of May 2000, or all kinds of past dates for which the end of the world had been predicted. Someone who did not hear about the prediction in advance would not have noticed anything special on those dates, and I predict that December 2012 will be like that as well.

The only effects that can be expected associated with the conjunction of 21 December 2012 have to do with the attention that people draw to that conjunction and date. If people expect that unusual things will happen on a certain date, then on that date they'll behave differently than usual, and that in itself is already an unusual thing. In this way they can fulfill their own expectations.
http://www.astro.uu.nl/%7Estrous/AA/en/2012.html

Apophis is coming. Anyone along the Pacific Rim is gonna die. Let's throw a giant asteroid party before that happens!

*befriends*

*dumps coffee can full of urine in the sink*

Come on, the game's about to start! Oh, don't mind the urine stain on the carpet there, just a little spill, it happens all the time.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

For fuck's sake, it's just the end of the Mayan calendar. Absolutely nothing about it says there will be some horrible disaster or anything; the calendar just resets!

Not to mention there were earthquakes in years past that killed well over 800,000; the stuff we're seeing today is a drop in the bucket compared to the massive death and suffering of years past.

Indeed. And note that the number of deaths from disasters has dramatically droppeds, even in locales which are less well set up for them.

Unfortunately, the only natural distaster Wikipedia list I can find that lists fatalities: List of earthquakes throughout history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_earthquakes).

Here ya go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_natural_disasters_by_death_toll

The claim there is the Yellow River floods of 1931 which killed 1-4 million.

It's not the end of the world. We're just better informed.

And better prepared. The Great Hanshin Earthquake (AKA the Kobe Earthquake) in 1995 had the potential to have been as bad as the Great Kanto Earthquake. But houses are built better and disaster management is greatly improved.

*dumps coffee can full of urine in the sink*

Come on, the game's about to start! Oh, don't mind the urine stain on the carpet there, just a little spill, it happens all the time.

*restraining order*

Here ya go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_natural_disasters_by_death_toll

Damn it! Wikipedia told me there was no "List of natural disasters…" article.
*retreats under stairs grumbling about lousy Wikipedia search functions*

THE WORLD IS GOING TO END IN 1997!
...FUCK!
I DIDNT MEAN THAT. ITS ACTUALLY GOING TO END IN 2000!
...FUCK!
WHAT I ACTUALLY MEANT WAS 2001!
...FUCK!
OK, I MIS-SPOKE THERE. THAT 'ONE' WAS ACTUALLY A TWELVE! BELIEVE ME, IM REALLY RIGHT THIS TIME! A BUNCH OF DEAD PEOPLE FROM MEXICO SAID SO, SO IT HAS TO BE RIGHT!

Seriously, if anybody's going to end the world at any specific time, its going to be me, because the day I die I'm setting off the nukes I've had built into every single automobile on the road since 1987.

I am considered a religious nut around here but even I try not to predict the end of the world.

People who do are just stupid.

'd' will be at the end of the world. Nothing more, nothing less.

Except maybe a full stop. Or an ellipsis...

Eveyone knows that the world wont end until 2029 when the Singularity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity) occurs as humans become one with the emotional machines.

And there will be much rejoicing. Or we'll exterminate you all.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

For fuck's sake, it's just the end of the Mayan calendar. Absolutely nothing about it says there will be some horrible disaster or anything; the calendar just resets!

For this same reason I like flipping through the calendar I have on my wall while my cat looks at it. She's a smart but paranoid feline and you should see her face when I get to December 31st.

ah yes the end of the world topic again.
wonderful. (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zeo0_3gN190)
What i find odd is, even if they're right it's not like they can celebrate or anything.
It'd be like a fortune teller who says you're going to die today, really, there is no chance for profit of t-shirts or digital watches, so i see no purpose to end of world stuff.
what i do find interesting, is lots of other things, that involve there being a day after tomorrow.
(any more end of world stuff and i'll rickroll the hell out of it, you have been warned)

What i find odd is, even if they're right it's not like they can celebrate or anything.

Don't you know that it is always the mad cultists and sects that tend to survive these scenarios?

You only have to believe in the message or the cult leader to be saved...

If you get enough followers you can say it's a religion :p

...because the Mayans were so good at predicting disasters.

I predict that the world is going to end suddenly, unexpectedly and on a date that nobody predicts. :)

I predict that the world is going to end suddenly, unexpectedly and on a date that nobody predicts. :)

when you say world do you mean, the world will obliterate or human life will disappear?
because if it's human life disapearing it's possible that you're right, if it's the world ending, then you're also right.
see what you got there is a double positive, and i'm afraid i can't allow that, NSG isn't supposed to have happy solutions.
It's for serious discussion on the merits of political and global issues. and to stop the bourgeoisie from taking over nationstates.
*nods*

A new age? No... It is a NEW ERA!









Of loneliness. Oh god...

Yeah, I got dumped two weeks ago too. I've been trying to pickle my liver, but the little guy is hanging in there.

...because the Mayans were so good at predicting disasters.

Actually, it's well known that one of them at least, while bumming around on a sunny afternoon said to his friend...

'Dude, if we don't get off our lazy asses sooner or later we're going to be wiped out as a civilization'.

Just because no one listens, doesn't mean it's not an accurate prediction.

I predict that the world is going to end suddenly, unexpectedly and on a date that nobody predicts. :)

You forgot to add that you'll be the likely cause.

You forgot to add that you'll be the likely cause.

Well, I want to keep it a surprise. :)

Well, I want to keep it a surprise. :)

Sure is an ingenious use of baking powder and lemonade.

Well.. the end of the world as we know it is in 2012.

After 2012 time will not exist anymore, and we will grow some new capabilities, thus making us more aware of the things around us, from 2 chromosomes we will have 12.

This coincides with the fact that the Earth will change its magnetic poles in the same day in 2012.

Now I wondered why such thing will happen, but now I know.. in 2011 a major asteroid will hit Earth, so we will suffer some severe mutations, thus enabling us to be what the myth always said.

The end.

Well.. the end of the world as we know it is in 2012.

After 2012 time will not exist anymore, and we will grow some new capabilities, thus making us more aware of the things around us, from 2 chromosomes we will have 12.

This coincides with the fact that the Earth will change its magnetic poles in the same day in 2012.

Now I wondered why such thing will happen, but now I know.. in 2011 a major asteroid will hit Earth, so we will suffer some severe mutations, thus enabling us to be what the myth always said.

The end.
I bet if you were offered a good pension plan you'd still take it.

I don't think we're talking apocalypse here, but I do think within the next 5 years you're going to see huge changes in the way the world works.

Sure is an ingenious use of baking powder and lemonade.

Thank you. :cool:

Now an earthquake in China killing 10,000, probably more.

10,000 deaths is nothing.

10,000 deaths is nothing.

Unfortunately true but it is to those who are there.

http://www.unisdr.org/disaster-statistics/introduction.htm

This is a pretty comprehensive site detailing the statistics of world natural disasters since 1900. It does show a rather sharp increase in natural disasters in recent times, however, it also classifies a natural disaster as killing 10 or more people and effecting 100 or more people, among other things including economic costs and the need for international aid. In other words, if a volcano erupts and burries 100 kilometers of forest with no one living anywhere nearby, it's not a natural disaster per se, unless there are some serious economic consquences. Note too that these statistics also include biological disasters and epademics such as small pox, SARS or AIDS.

That said, the world has become a lot more populated since the 1900's, and as technology and the need for expansion increases, so do populations living in high risk zones, such as fault lines. As well, income of the regions effected needs to be taken into account. So... yes, the number of natural disasters has increased, but I don't think it's because the natural world has become more violent as a sign of the end of the world. It's simply that there are that many more people around to be effected.

Not only is 2012 not the end of the world, but it's not even the end of the calendar! The mayan calendar has 13 places, but they only show the last five for the same reason we say that it's currently 2008 AD not 02008 AD (with rare exceptions, such as Duke Nukem Forever's release several hundred thousand years from now ;) ).

Also we need this link (http://www.bible.ca/pre-date-setters.htm).

Umm, I don't believe any of this story, but just to be safe... RUN, RUN!!!!!!!

10,000 deaths is nothing.

Especially considering how we have 6,000,000,000+ people walking around.

The Mayan calendar does not predict the end of the world in 2012. It predicts the end of the most recent baktun in 2012. The last baktun ended in the early 17th century, and as far as I know it did not have any meaningful effects on the development of the world. As a matter of fact, the 400 years following it saw more progress and development than the past 1,400...

Not to mention there were earthquakes in years past that killed well over 800,000; the stuff we're seeing today is a drop in the bucket compared to the massive death and suffering of years past.

Well, my Mayan calendarophraphy and mythology is a bit rusty, but I think it goes that the three previous creations failed at the end of the 13th baktun, and we are currently reaching the end of the 13th baktun of the current count.

But, being as how there are various predictions on stele well passed this current baktun, I highly doubt that they predicted the end of the world. :P

Also, the high number of deaths is pretty much due to very high population density in recent years, pretty much.

Edit: Another problem that arises is the difficulty in corresponding the Mayan Long Count to the Julian calender. Depending on which interpretation you use, the dates change dramatically as to the end of the current baktun. Really, the 2012 date is just the most commonly used and popular correspondence.

Actually, it's well known that one of them at least, while bumming around on a sunny afternoon said to his friend...

'Dude, if we don't get off our lazy asses sooner or later we're going to be wiped out as a civilization'.

Just because no one listens, doesn't mean it's not an accurate prediction.


Ah, the Cassandra problem. Always tell the truth, but nobody believes you. I'm the opposite, always tell a lie, everyone believes it. :D

Not to mention there were earthquakes in years past that killed well over 800,000; the stuff we're seeing today is a drop in the bucket compared to the massive death and suffering of years past.

Of course, there's the fact that the current world population is so much bigger, only natural there'd be more in regions hit by Earthquakes.

The real question is not the total number of dead, its how the death rate per capita due to natural disasters compares.

This coincides with the fact that the Earth will change its magnetic poles in the same day in 2012.


Er... huh? The poles shift at almost random times, with little to no correlation in dates. Granted, we haven't had a shift in a VERY long time, suggesting that the poles will shift sometime in the next few hundred to thousand years, but an exact date is not known.

Now most will say that the Galactic Alignment is supposed to happen on this date... which would be great and all if not for one big problem:

It already happened. 10 years ago. With no significant change.


Now I wondered why such thing will happen, but now I know.. in 2011 a major asteroid will hit Earth, so we will suffer some severe mutations, thus enabling us to be what the myth always said.

The end.

Are you being serious?

4 pages and still no crazy evangelical or fundie coming on here and carrying on about Revelations and Jesus's return.


Im rather disappointed.

After 2012 time will not exist anymore, and we will grow some new capabilities, thus making us more aware of the things around us, from 2 chromosomes we will have 12.

…

This coincides with the fact that the Earth will change its magnetic poles in the same day in 2012.

You do know that magnetic reversals occur over thousands of years, right? Right?

4 pages and still no crazy evangelical or fundie coming on here and carrying on about Revelations and Jesus's return.


Im rather disappointed.

Maybe they realize that revelations was actually just a metaphor for the current Roman empire at the time, finally?

Maybe?

No?

Maybe they realize that revelations was actually just a metaphor for the current Roman empire at the time, finally?

Maybe?

No?



Dont count on it;)

…



You do know that magnetic reversals occur over thousands of years, right? Right?

Not only that, but we actually don't know *what* exactly happens during a pole reversal. There are no mass extinctions that appear to have occurred during such an event. There is no evidence, really, that anything bad will happen. Hell, there is really no evidence to say anything, about anything, as there is a lot we just don't know. About the only thing that can be said is that it's probably going to happen soon(since it's been a fairly long time since the last one, and "soon" in geologic terms is on the order of anywhere up to a few tens of thousands of years).

So many major religions and tribal traditions have ages that cycle through as do many fantasy novels inspired by these myths. These often last thousands of years, tens of thousands of years. Most of the Christian and Islamic traditions believe in a final end of the world (and I presume the Universe along with it?)
Nah, not the end of the world, just the end of the warranty.

Nah, not the end of the world, just the end of the warranty.

When does planned obsolescence kick in?

Maybe they realize that revelations was actually just a metaphor for the current Roman empire at the time, finally?

Maybe?

No?

Um...no!

Especially considering how we have 6,000,000,000+ people walking around.

Roughly 6.7 to 6.8 billion. Oh, and a birth rate of over 3 per second.

There are far more people living on the earth now than back in the day.
Statistically a disaster is likely to kill more people.

… re-runs?

No. It comes from the fact that every couple decades a new "remake", "reimangining", or whatever of BSG will come along.

Actually it comes from the view of the religion of both the colonials and Cylons in the new series:

The Cycle of Time

Leoben: "All this has happened before, and all of it will happen again." (Flesh and Bone)

Six: "All this has happened before, and all this will happen again." (The Hand of God)

Roslin: If you believe in the gods, then you believe in the cycle of time that we are all playing our parts in a story that is told again, and again, and again throughout eternity. (Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I)

Obviously the Great Dragon Ryumyo will appear to a bullet train full of passengers in Japan, signalling the beginning of the awakening.

And I'll probably express as a troll.

When does planned obsolescence kick in?

dunno, but if we get a contract with another Tech Support group, I hope they're better than this current one.

Dear Mods, the world has come to an end and I cannot post in Nationstates.

Why?

Can you fix this as quick as possible?

10 minutes later...

Mods, no one has replied to my request, why am I being ignored?

...and so on...

Dear Mods, the world has come to an end and I cannot post in Nationstates.

Why?

Can you fix this as quick as possible?

10 minutes later...

Mods, no one has replied to my request, why am I being ignored?

...and so on...

don't forget the ever popular
Bump
:D

http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrld.htm

http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrld.htm

then there's this one (http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/end)...

kinda surprised no one posted it before...

:D

So we are seeing some MAJOR disasters with very high death tolls, icecaps melting, all sorts of strange things happening. People have always cried doomsday, but it is starting to be so often that one could almost say the Earth is angry as funny as that sounds.


1.Earthquakes DON'T KILL (unless you fall in a crack in the ground). Poorly built houses DO. A 7 Richter is a V Mercalli in Japan, a VII Mercalli in Italy and a IX Mercalli in the third world.

2.Well what about some PREVIOUS major disasters with MUCH HIGHER death tolls , both proportionally to general population and in absolute numbers?
Here I give some:
Lisbon earthquake and tsunami
explosion of Krakatoa and subsequent tsunami
World War II (with terror bombings like Dresden and Tokyo, Nazi holocaust and Chinese losses)
Tambora 1830 eruption
siege of Baghdad and subsequent genocide

All of them signs of impending doomsday? Come on.

Talking about natural disasters, most of them could have produced many less casualties if some basical safety measures were taken. Like:
-not building near active volcanoes (Pompei)
-not building dams under unstable mountains (Vajont Dam landslide and megatsunami)
-not building shitty buildings in seismic areas (Irpinia - Italy earthquake 1980) or were tornadoes are expected (Tornado Alley)
-not cutting down trees from mountain flanks (Valtellina disaster 1987 - Val Pola landslide and shockwave)
-having a survey/early alert system and evacuation plans for tsunamis and severe storms

I just hope I have time to bake an appropriate cake. :)
The cake is a lie.

we're seeing major disasters because of forces we've set in motion our selves and continue doing so. largely by using combustion to generate energy and propel transportation. that in combination with there being so many of us and continuing to be more.

did ancient mayan astrologers in some mystical way predict this would happen?
maybe. could anyone, armed with sufficient insight back then, have calculated the progression of human population and development and from that extrapolated not only that such a time as ours would come, but roughly when?
quite possibly yes.

does that mean some big ambiguous something fanatics call "the world" is going to in some sense completely "end" when the current cycle of their calender does?

that bit seems more then a little unlikely.

what is considerably more so, is that every few years, people bored with bussiness as usual, look for excuses to abondond any sense of personal responsibility for the contribution to ambient incentives created by their own values and actions.

the you hear about things like y2k and now this 2012 bussiness.

did you know that in the mid 1800's there was big bussiness in the manufacture and sale of "assention robes"? and again arround the turn of the PREVIOUS century as well?

the biblical prophesy of a return, which the menenonites had calculated to arround the year 1843 or so, was actually fulfilled in its particulars as they had origeonaly been aligorically intended by the declaration, in 1844, in isfahan persia, of the bab, or gate.

as were many from other beliefs such as islam.

so i don't know what world anyone is talking about ending just because some calender does, but i do know that some things are going to end, not on some arbitrary particular date, but end they will, such as cheep oil being one of them. maybe the polar icecaps dissappearing entirely, at least during high summer in their respective hemispheres.

and a number of other things are not unlikely to chainge drastically. there might not always be a place called america, nor the international corporate mafia which is today so seemingly all powerful that it usurps the political proccess of even the most militarily powerful of nations.

so yes, in a sense, profound chainges are underfoot, and underway.
but the only thing that happens on any one particular day, is that some polititian gets up and makes a speach, generally taking credit for what everyone else is already doing anyway.

=^^=
.../\...

It's possible ofcourse.. but I ain't worried about it. But I also don't have any kids etc. So meh. Only got myself to really think about.. so whatever happens.. happens... I just hope its not a long drawn out suffering. Well actually I hope that for everyone..

I do find it fascinating they they could cover the heavens movements so precisely.. that's awesome. We tend to think now that we are soo far ahead of ancient times.. it's just not the case.