NationStates Jolt Archive

It's not an opinion; it's not open for debate; it's simply incorrect. Grass isn't red. You can claim it until you're blue in the face, but grass is not red, it is green. Ice cream isn't warm. It doesn't matter how much you may hate it, but it's not warm. It is cold.

I got into an intersting conversation with someone using the same grass/color example. it was about how, nowdays, people don't take the time to inform or correct, but just to say 'you're wrong'. if someone grew up thinking that the color of grass is red (say a problem with their optical receptors or just plain bad education) instead of patiently instructing the person as to why they are wrong and possibly finding out the root cause of the problem (say a weird form of color blindness or the aforementioned bad education) they are more prone to say 'you're an idiot and you're wrong.'

If someone is lacking information, instead of providing that information, or even pointing them to the source, you get "Google is your friend".

Is this a trend others are seeing? where ignorance and differing opinions/ideals are not met with discussion, but with crys of 'wrong' and even insults of 'idiot' and 'moron'.

Sure we can blame education, but is Education only limited to the classroom and teachers or should we all take part in correcting that which is incorrect without putting down the people who are incorrect?

would you seriously consider the other person's opinions and information if you are called an idiot, stuipid or moron by that person?

no I haven't noticed it :confused:

and I may have some disturbing news for you (http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1301/564844325_4b08fa7c2f.jpg?v=0)

would you seriously consider the other person's opinions and information if you are called an idiot, stuipid or moron by that person?

one? probabaly not

however if every person I met said my hat looked stupid I may listen

There's red grass. Hurts like a bitch to touch it as well.

would you seriously consider the other person's opinions and information if you are called an idiot, stuipid or moron by that person?

Usually, no.
If they couldn't even spell stupid, then definitely not... ;)

would you seriously consider the other person's opinions and information if you are called an idiot, stuipid or moron by that person?

There's a difference between name-calling and telling some one that they are blatantly wrong. I noticed you quoted, well, me. Things in life can be right and wrong. A lot of things are debatable and up for interpretation, but some things aren't. Still, if someone called me a moron or stupid because I said or did something that WAS moronic or stupid, then by all means I deserved the insult. If I said something foolish like "Bill Clinton is the president of the United States," I'd still be just as wrong if the person said "No, silly he's not. Bush is" or the respondent told me. "You're a moron. Bush is president. Has been for 8 years. Where have you been?"

I got into an intersting conversation with someone using the same grass/color example. it was about how, nowdays, people don't take the time to inform or correct, but just to say 'you're wrong'. if someone grew up thinking that the color of grass is red (say a problem with their optical receptors or just plain bad education) instead of patiently instructing the person as to why they are wrong and possibly finding out the root cause of the problem (say a weird form of color blindness or the aforementioned bad education) they are more prone to say 'you're an idiot and you're wrong.'

Again the difference between calling someone someone an idiot and just telling them that they are wrong is the key. The person in your example would not necessarily be an idiot. If the poor guy has bad eyesight, then he can't help it. Nothing idiotic about that. That being said, he's still wrong. Grass isn't red. If the man thought it was because of poor education, then he's both wrong, and by definition, an idiot.

One approach doesn't have to be mutually exclusive from each other, but at the same time it can be. I don't think this is exclusive to today's age either. In fact, I believe it to be getting better. Things like sexuality, race, etc. are no longer issues of right and wrong. They are up for debate. It's ok for some to be gay. It's not for others. Unfortunately for the guy in your/my example, the grass is still green.

however if every person I met said my hat looked stupid I may listen ah but that is opinion. now if they said that you are not wearing your hat correctly and proceeds to berate you because your hat is not worn (to their knowledge) correctly...

There's red grass. Hurts like a bitch to touch it as well.

yep. and my brother has red grass... of course it only appears the day after his children fingerpaint on their tool shed walls... :p

if someone grew up thinking that the color of grass is red (say a problem with their optical receptors or just plain bad education) instead of patiently instructing the person as to why they are wrong and possibly finding out the root cause of the problem (say a weird form of color blindness or the aforementioned bad education) they are more prone to say 'you're an idiot and you're wrong.'


An optical receptor problem wouldn't actually cause this, since whatever colour the person sees on grass, if he is told that that colour is green(at a young age), he'll accept that. At this moment there is no technology i'm aware off that we can use to check whether i'm seeing the same colour as you on a certain object, if its, say, a colour we both know as 'red'.

But grass isn't green:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a205/ulteriormotives/22072294_90b9ee233f_m.jpg

But grass isn't green:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a205/ulteriormotives/22072294_90b9ee233f_m.jpg

Yes, and compared to liquid nitrogen, ice cream is warm. Argue the point if you will, not the metaphor

Usually, no.
If they couldn't even spell stupid, then definitely not... ;)
I for one, never claimed to be a gud spelr. :p

There's a difference between name-calling and telling some one that they are blatantly wrong. I noticed you quoted, well, me. Things in life can be right and wrong. A lot of things are debatable and up for interpretation, but some things aren't. Still, if someone called me a moron or stupid because I said or did something that WAS moronic or stupid, then by all means I deserved the insult. If I said something foolish like "Bill Clinton is the president of the United States," I'd still be just as wrong if the person said "No, silly he's not. Bush is" or the respondent told me. "You're a moron. Bush is president. Has been for 8 years. Where have you been?" I only quoted you because that section reminded me of that conversation. hence why I snipped out the other bits. It wasn't about any percieved insult.

Again the difference between calling someone someone an idiot and just telling them that they are wrong is the key. The person in your example would not necessarily be an idiot. If the poor guy has bad eyesight, then he can't help it. Nothing idiotic about that. That being said, he's still wrong. Grass isn't red. If the man thought it was because of poor education, then he's both wrong, and by definition, an idiot.

One approach doesn't have to be mutually exclusive from each other, but at the same time it can be. I don't think this is exclusive to today's age either. In fact, I believe it to be getting better. Things like sexuality, race, etc. are no longer issues of right and wrong. They are up for debate. It's ok for some to be gay. It's not for others. Unfortunately for the guy in your/my example, the grass is still green.
however, as I also said, people ask questions and very rarely are they pointed to the answer. usually (here even) the phrase "Google it" is used. basically instead of informing and discussing, it's waving them off as insignificant or to insult them.

(and people have provided examples of red grass.) ;)

Somewhat tangental, but my friends mother was driving their very young child (about 5 or 6 years old at the time), and the boy was talking about colors. The mother said "Tell me some things that are orange. A basketball is orange. What else is?", to which the son replied "The grass!".

That's how we found out the kid was colorblind.

A lot of things are debatable and up for interpretation, but some things aren't.

I would like to take up this challenge :)

ah but that is opinion. now if they said that you are not wearing your hat correctly and proceeds to berate you because your hat is not worn (to their knowledge) correctly...

I will point out that there is an exact method of wearing a beret and it is generally expected for it to be well shaven

you can google the rest;)

usually (here even) the phrase "Google it" is used.

I have never seen this, much like racist grass comments you have neither sources nor google helping you!

Yes, and compared to liquid nitrogen, ice cream is warm. Argue the point if you will, not the metaphorIt's a pretty shitty metaphor then. Similar to the "You don't build a house from the roof down" metaphor, which has no use in many parts of the Pacific. :p

It's just like how no one on internet forums <SNIP> no one hate World of Warcraft.
Fail, I hate WoW
Internet forums such as these are full of far-left losers who live in their parents basement and are generally out of touch with reality or society as a whole. If someone said half the things that are said on these forums to a person in real life they would be punched in the mouth or publicly ridiculed. But such consequences don't exist here, so people feel free to act as rude or condescending as they wish.
A tad bitter are we?

people feel free to act as rude or condescending as they wish.

Clearly.

Fail, I hate WoW

Exceptions to a rule doesn't mean the rule doesn't exist.

A tad bitter are we?

Nah...just very much aware of the nature of these boards. I haven't been "wronged" or "beaten" so I can be bitter.

Exceptions to a rule doesn't mean the rule doesn't exist.

You making things up doesn't really qualify as them being rules.

Nah...just very much aware of the nature of these boards. I haven't been "wronged" or "beaten" so I can be bitter.So you're bitter without an excuse then?

So you're bitter without an excuse then?

The people he made fun of in high school are acting superior to him, what more reason does one need?

The people he made fun of in high school are acting superior to him, what more reason does one need?

Oh my...I'll just walk away from this thread now.

Take care, both of you. This is just a bit too ridiculous for my tastes.

Oh my...I'll just walk away from this thread now.

Take care, both of you. This is just a bit too ridiculous for my tastes.

:fluffle:

You kind of shot yourself in the foot there. When telling people not to be condescending, it's a good idea to not be incredibly condescending.

You kind of shot yourself in the foot there. When telling people not to be condescending, it's a good idea to not be incredibly condescending.

Nah, that's the best time to be condescending... ;)

So you're bitter without an excuse then?

The people he made fun of in high school are acting superior to him, what more reason does one need?

My question is, if he really feels that way about NSG, why is he here?

My question is, if he really feels that way about NSG, why is he here?

Well if he wasn't focussing on how much we suck, he might focus on how much someone he actually knows sucks, and he might have to follow through on this talk of punching people in the mouth.

My question is, if he really feels that way about NSG, why is he here?Victim complex? Masochist tendencies?

My question is, if he really feels that way about NSG, why is he here?

The few rays of light among all the darkness, coupled with insane boredom at work. Bye.

Well if he wasn't focussing on how much we suck, he might focus on how much someone he actually knows sucks, and he might have to follow through on this talk of punching people in the mouth.

(a) Victim complex? (b) Masochist tendencies?

I'm going to go with a combination of Ifreann's explanation and item a from Laerod's...


The few rays of light among all the darkness, coupled with insane boredom at work. Bye.
I still like my explanation...

The few rays of light among all the darkness, coupled with insane boredom at work. Bye.

Oh my...I'll just walk away from this thread now.

Take care, both of you. This is just a bit too ridiculous for my tastes.

Yes, this was a kind of dickish thing to do. I don't care, it's funny.

I got into an intersting conversation with someone using the same grass/color example. it was about how, nowdays, people don't take the time to inform or correct, but just to say 'you're wrong'. if someone grew up thinking that the color of grass is red (say a problem with their optical receptors or just plain bad education) instead of patiently instructing the person as to why they are wrong and possibly finding out the root cause of the problem (say a weird form of color blindness or the aforementioned bad education) they are more prone to say 'you're an idiot and you're wrong.'

If someone is lacking information, instead of providing that information, or even pointing them to the source, you get "Google is your friend".

Is this a trend others are seeing? where ignorance and differing opinions/ideals are not met with discussion, but with crys of 'wrong' and even insults of 'idiot' and 'moron'.

Sure we can blame education, but is Education only limited to the classroom and teachers or should we all take part in correcting that which is incorrect without putting down the people who are incorrect?

would you seriously consider the other person's opinions and information if you are called an idiot, stuipid or moron by that person?

well...as a proporly educated person on the color of grass I believe its my duty to point out that when someone says grass is red they are called stupid, bad education or not they apparently never before had the issue of correction, sure i'de correct them but there is no way i'de pass up a chance to offend them quickly. Now when it goes into more important things, discussion should be made, but simple things require simple answers...dumbass

Grass isn't red because in English grass is not (usually) red. Grass might be red in some other language. In Spanish, grass is verde. Does that change the way the phrase is used? No.

When I am discussing a topic I try to explain my position as well as I can, because it helps me when people aren't stumbling over completely different viewpoints. A selfish reason, maybe.

Grass isn't red because in English grass is not (usually) red. Grass might be red in some other language. In Spanish, grass is verde. Does that change the way the phrase is used? No.

When I am discussing a topic I try to explain my position as well as I can, because it helps me when people aren't stumbling over completely different viewpoints. A selfish reason, maybe.

In Spanish grass is ¨cesped¨. ´Verde´ is merely the color, which can be ´verde monte´ or ´verde claro´. I think your analogy, although explaining something that is correct, grass is not red, is a bit erred on the Spanish allusion.

Well, thank you for the correction.

Well, thank you for the correction.

No problem.

Somewhat tangental, but my friends mother was driving their very young child (about 5 or 6 years old at the time), and the boy was talking about colors. The mother said "Tell me some things that are orange. A basketball is orange. What else is?", to which the son replied "The grass!".

That's how we found out the kid was colorblind.

This answers the "how could you think red was green?" intuitive case very nicely.

Just like that. :)

It's a pretty shitty metaphor then. Similar to the "You don't build a house from the roof down" metaphor, which has no use in many parts of the Pacific. :p

Seriously. If your argument is predicated upon a metaphor and it's a bad metaphor, then your argument can not be very sound.

It's just like how no one on internet forums believes in god, no one likes George Bush, no one is a conservative, and no one hate World of Warcraft. Internet forums such as these are full of far-left losers who live in their parents basement and are generally out of touch with reality or society as a whole. If someone said half the things that are said on these forums to a person in real life they would be punched in the mouth or publicly ridiculed. But such consequences don't exist here, so people feel free to act as rude or condescending as they wish.

We don't have anyone on NSG who believes in God? Okay, you tell me what you did with Jocabia RIGHT NOW MISTER.

Exceptions to a rule doesn't mean the rule doesn't exist.

"All cows are black and white."
"Jerseys are brown."
"Of course. They're the exception that proves the rule. Now get back to your basement, you ignorant WoW-playing liberal atheist!"

Seriously. If your argument is predicated upon a metaphor and it's a bad metaphor, then your argument can not be very sound.

I'd even firm that up a bit.

"If your argument is predicated upon a metaphor, your argument is rubbish." ;)

I'd even firm that up a bit.

"If your argument is predicated upon a metaphor, your argument is rubbish." ;)

I tried to tell them that about Socrates my frosh year of college, but no one would listen. :mad:

It's just like how no one on internet forums believes in god, no one likes George Bush, no one is a conservative, and no one hate World of Warcraft. Internet forums such as these are full of far-left losers who live in their parents basement and are generally out of touch with reality or society as a whole.

Are you planning to go report yourself in moderation now?

My question is, if he really feels that way about NSG, why is he here?

Apparently so he find things to report to moderation while he's supposed to be working.

I tried to tell them that about Socrates my frosh year of college, but no one would listen. :mad:

:)

You pretty much hit the nail on the head, JuNii. It's internet superiority. Kids who were made fun of in highschool, now behind the veil of the internet, can strike back at society by using an air of superiority and talking down to everyone else.

It's just like how no one on internet forums believes in god, no one likes George Bush, no one is a conservative, and no one hate World of Warcraft. Internet forums such as these are full of far-left losers who live in their parents basement and are generally out of touch with reality or society as a whole. If someone said half the things that are said on these forums to a person in real life they would be punched in the mouth or publicly ridiculed. But such consequences don't exist here, so people feel free to act as rude or condescending as they wish.


and here i was ready and willing to refute his points...

All i need is an address and some money for the plane ticket - happy to restate any position I have held on here (that i havent recanted at some point) to his face...

should probably also clear up any misunderstanding...
Anti Guns, and Bush
Unsure on god.
Like WoW
Am conservative according to most IRL ppl i know.
Fiscally hard right, socially fairly hard left... - dont ask it makes sense to me...

It's just like how no one on internet forums believes in god, no one likes George Bush, no one is a conservative, and no one hate World of Warcraft.
You've never met up with Der Teutoniker have you? We both believe in God, he likes Bush so he doesn't like the fact I hated him before most people did, and he's called himself a conservative when talking to me. As for Warcraft, I'm not sure about him, though it's not my favorite game in the world.

Internet forums such as these are full of far-left losers who live in their parents basement and are generally out of touch with reality or society as a whole. If someone said half the things that are said on these forums to a person in real life they would be punched in the mouth or publicly ridiculed. But such consequences don't exist here, so people feel free to act as rude or condescending as they wish.
Show of hands, who lives in their parent's basement? Not me, though being 16 I do still live with my mom and I talk with and visit my dad quite often. I'm pretty sure there's not a terrible amount of us that are out of touch with reality or society. You are correct in that consequences do not exist here though, so we see the more ugly sides of a person.

Seriously. If your argument is predicated upon a metaphor and it's a bad metaphor, then your argument can not be very sound.

We don't have anyone on NSG who believes in God? Okay, you tell me what you did with Jocabia RIGHT NOW MISTER.

"All cows are black and white."
"Jerseys are brown."
"Of course. They're the exception that proves the rule. Now get back to your basement, you ignorant WoW-playing liberal atheist!"
I do agree completely with your first two points (despite the fact that I burst out laughing at the second), and I append to the second with the fact that I'm a firm believer in God.
As for that last paragraph, how does an exception PROVE a rule? Proving something says that it's truth, and if there's an exception, it's not truth but a lie. Now when you say something like "I before E except after C" that whole phrase can be a rule when "I before E" is not because it says that the letter I will ALWAYS come before E.

Seriously. If your argument is predicated upon a metaphor and it's a bad metaphor, then your argument can not be very sound.



We don't have anyone on NSG who believes in God? Okay, you tell me what you did with Jocabia RIGHT NOW MISTER.



"All cows are black and white."
"Jerseys are brown."
"Of course. They're the exception that proves the rule. Now get back to your basement, you ignorant WoW-playing liberal atheist!"

LOL, btw you forgot Balderdash and Neo B...

I got into an intersting conversation with someone using the same grass/color example. it was about how, nowdays, people don't take the time to inform or correct, but just to say 'you're wrong'. if someone grew up thinking that the color of grass is red (say a problem with their optical receptors or just plain bad education) instead of patiently instructing the person as to why they are wrong and possibly finding out the root cause of the problem (say a weird form of color blindness or the aforementioned bad education) they are more prone to say 'you're an idiot and you're wrong.'

If someone is lacking information, instead of providing that information, or even pointing them to the source, you get "Google is your friend".

Is this a trend others are seeing? where ignorance and differing opinions/ideals are not met with discussion, but with crys of 'wrong' and even insults of 'idiot' and 'moron'.

Sure we can blame education, but is Education only limited to the classroom and teachers or should we all take part in correcting that which is incorrect without putting down the people who are incorrect?

would you seriously consider the other person's opinions and information if you are called an idiot, stuipid or moron by that person?

I would give you an answer, but instead, I'll give you www.google.com. Find the answer yourself. :p

Yes, this was a kind of dickish thing to do. I don't care, it's funny.

I would have done it if I'd seen it first.

As for that last paragraph, how does an exception PROVE a rule? Proving something says that it's truth, and if there's an exception, it's not truth but a lie. Now when you say something like "I before E except after C" that whole phrase can be a rule when "I before E" is not because it says that the letter I will ALWAYS come before E.

That was my point. ;)

Except in weigh, sleigh, height, foreign...

[QUOTE=Steel Butterfly;13684774]I don't think this is exclusive to today's age either. In fact, I believe it to be getting better. Things like sexuality, race, etc. are no longer issues of right and wrong. They are up for debate. It's ok for some to be gay. It's not for others. QUOTE]

Steel Butterfly, I think you're right, but I think it's getting much, much worse on so many things with the advent of cable TV and the internet for instance that I think this offsets any progress in the issue of race. As far as sexuality, I know it's a loaded proposition, but I think that homosexuality has been accepted off and on in waves throughout the ages. When I was a kid, they talked about the dangers they foresaw in "information overload." I feel like I see the crisis they were warning us about lived out before my eyes everyday. One problem is the one you speak of. When we disagree, we don't sit down and talk about it. We are such lazy isolationists. We would rather just verbally flip people the bird than take the time and effort to sit down and actually exchange ideas (because that takes a lot of effort and thought).

As for that last paragraph, how does an exception PROVE a rule?An exception doesn't prove a rule, it proves a rule. Rules, unlike laws, allow for exceptions. That it has exceptions means its not a law, but a rule. So exceptions don't really prove that rules are correct, they prove that they're rules, not laws.

As for that last paragraph, how does an exception PROVE a rule?
"Proof" originally meant "test". In other words, the original meaning of the phrase was the exact opposite of how it's used today.

We don't have anyone on NSG who believes in God? Okay, you tell me what you did with Jocabia RIGHT NOW MISTER.

Amusingly, Jocabia was a conservative when he arrived. Jocabia believes in small government, gun ownership, justices who stick to interpreting the laws, and the government staying out of our private lives and respecting individual rights.

I can't help it if equality became a dirty liberal word. Freedom from toture? Liberal. One would call that liberal 10 years ago. Balancing the budget? Liberal.

I've always believed with the exception of protecting rights, and those things that have to be bigger than states like the military and ecology, that things should be handled at the lowest possible government level. Now conservatives are suggesting federal laws to interfere with states' rights.

Frankly, is anyone surprised that as conservative regimes have made conservative a dirty word that less people tend to consider themselves conservatives.

But let's pretend it's the "damned internet".

The grass colour example is an old philosophical question regarding perception...but its 2am here and I cant be arsed explaining. ;)

One approach doesn't have to be mutually exclusive from each other, but at the same time it can be. I don't think this is exclusive to today's age either. In fact, I believe it to be getting better. Things like sexuality, race, etc. are no longer issues of right and wrong. They are up for debate. It's ok for some to be gay. It's not for others. Does this mean it's okay for some to be black, but not for others?