NationStates Jolt Archive

Hello mothers of NSG. I have a three week old daughter that I am trying to breastfeed. The experience continues to be a daily struggle. I cannot find a comfortable position for the both of us to be in, one that makes it easy for her to latch on but does not kill my back in the process. I spoke with a lactation consultant while I was still in the hospital, suggesting the football hold was the best, but I have not really used that since I have been home. It wasn't working well. I have a breast pump and could give her breast milk that way, which I have been doing periodically, but I really want the nursing to work.

If you have some advice please post!

Do you have a nursing pillow? I used to prop the kid on a nursing pillow and then put like 30 pillows (I exaggerate) behind my back and football hold her.

Is she latching on okay?

Don't feel like you have to do one of the positions "in the books", basically if you can get her latched on and she isn't being smushed, it's fine.

I can't stress enough how many pillows you need, put them under the baby, and under your arms and behind your back and cocoon yourself in. When you are recovered more from the birth you won't need as many.

Laying down might work, but it depends on if that hurts your back too.

Hello mothers of NSG. I have a three week old daughter that I am trying to breastfeed. The experience continues to be a daily struggle. I cannot find a comfortable position for the both of us to be in, one that makes it easy for her to latch on but does not kill my back in the process. I spoke with a lactation consultant while I was still in the hospital, suggesting the football hold was the best, but I have not really used that since I have been home. It wasn't working well. I have a breast pump and could give her breast milk that way, which I have been doing periodically, but I really want the nursing to work.

If you have some advice please post!

First of all...don't give up! I can't believe how many women I've known personally who stopped long before even the three week mark, so good job so far!

Second...it isn't as intuitive as we are led to believe. I struggled for months with my first...for some reason, the second time went a lot more smoothly.

The position is going to vary depending on the person...I hated the football hold. I tried a pillow under her head...terrible. Laying down on my side started to work, and a sort of half-sitting-in-my-lap hold also worked. You're just going to have to juggle baby around a bit.

As for the breast pump...it's painful, it's messy, and it's a pain in the ass in my opinion. Most women I know who have kept with it ended up switching to bottle feeding anyway because the baby got used to the plastic nipple.

If you are having issues with inverted nipples, you can get a nipple shield (http://www.yourlactationstation.com/shop/images/Nipple%20Shield.jpg)...it really does make it easier for the baby to latch on, but it too gets messy...fills up and can spill...and it's hard to get them to latch normally afterwards. Still, it's better than giving up.

Drink a lot of water. If you forget, try to drink while you're feeding....ha, have hubby sit there with a cup and a straw for you to sip from if necessary! NB needs to do something more than post on NSG anyway :P

With my first child, it honestly took me about three months to 'get it right'. Oh, one more thing...when baby latches on, sort of push your breast in a little where it touches between the baby's mouth and nose...it helps seal the latch better.

You may want to get a pump anyway, for times when you aren't around, and your s/o or a babysitter has the kid. Another good reason would be if your nipples start to get chapped, the kid may hurt, but the pump probably won't.

I second Neeksika, it literally took me months before I was adept. I know many women who quit after a few weeks, so don't feel frustrated, it's not easy and the baby is going to be patient with you, you have to be patient with her.

I cried, a LOT because I felt like I was a failure......except I know now I wasn't, I was learning something. It's hard at first but it gets easier.

Ice water is very important! I would drink like a gallon a day, when it was time to nurse hubby's job was to bring me water and change the diaper... he's gotta do something right?

Sometimes if you get some skin/skin cuddles before you get her to latch on she will calm down more and be more pliable when you are jostling her about so your back doesn't kill you.

Remember you are doing the best you can, and your baby loves you for it!

You may want to get a pump anyway, for times when you aren't around, and your s/o or a babysitter has the kid. Another good reason would be if your nipples start to get chapped, the kid may hurt, but the pump probably won't.

The pump was agony for me. It's rather traumatizing to watch too.

The pump was agony for me. It's rather traumatizing to watch too.

So much work for so little result...and neither of my daughters would drink from a bottle anyway, so it was nearly always wasted. Ugh. And that was with the pump I borrowed from the hospital...the manual one was even worse. Nu-uh.

So much work for so little result...and neither of my daughters would drink from a bottle anyway, so it was nearly always wasted. Ugh. And that was with the pump I borrowed from the hospital...the manual one was even worse. Nu-uh.

Yeah, I rented one of those big electric ones from the hospital, my milk wouldn't let down for it.....it's like my boobies knew that wasn't the baby.

I never really had a problem self expressing, if I had to.

You may want to get a pump anyway, for times when you aren't around, and your s/o or a babysitter has the kid. Another good reason would be if your nipples start to get chapped, the kid may hurt, but the pump probably won't.

Really? I found the opposite to be true. The child's sucking was at least...normal, less painful or something.

Lanolin. Best stuff EVAH for chapped nipples.

I cried, a LOT because I felt like I was a failure.
This.

I don't know a single new mother who hasn't gone through this. For some reason, we go into it believing it's going to be easy, and when it isn't, we assume we're defective, or doing something wrong.



Remember you are doing the best you can, and your baby loves you for it!
And there is soooo much research out there as to the long-term benefits of breast feeding.

Then again...it's not the choice between raising an Einstein or a Jeffery Dahlmer, so if you decide at one point to stop, don't beat yourself up about it, or let others guilt trip you. Even three weeks is better than nothing.

My wife had better results with the pump when she got chapped from nursing, I guess results vary. Putting some milk aside in the freezer is still a good precaution, though.

My wife had better results with the pump when she got chapped from nursing, I guess results vary. Putting some milk aside in the freezer is still a good precaution, though.

Certainly better than nothing...and never ever leaving the house. *shudders*

That's another thing...new moms? It's okay to leave your babies with someone for a while. In fact, please do, for everyone's sanity.

You may want to get a pump anyway, for times when you aren't around, and your s/o or a babysitter has the kid. Another good reason would be if your nipples start to get chapped, the kid may hurt, but the pump probably won't.

The pump was agony for me. It's rather traumatizing to watch too.

I already have a pump I got for a shower gift, and the pump is actually less painful at times than having little Neo B on me. :) I have a nipple shield and I do use it sometimes when she decides she wants to use it. Sometimes she latches on great, but there are other times where we sit for half an hour and she hasn't gotten a good latch. That is when both of us are the most frusterated I think. The other thing is, I don't know if she's getting anything. Sometimes I can hear her swallowing and sometimes I don't.

As for the bottle feeding, I had to supplement formula when we first left the hospital because she had jaundice and lost more weight in the hospital than they liked. I have been trying to wean her away from the formula and just breast feed but sometimes I feed her some formula out of frusteration after I have tried to breast feed her for a long time and have had no luck. There are days I can completely go without giving her any formula, then others where I can't. She hasn't had just formula alone accept for when we were out and about.


Drink a lot of water. If you forget, try to drink while you're feeding....ha, have hubby sit there with a cup and a straw for you to sip from if necessary! NB needs to do something more than post on NSG anyway :P


Hee! :D

One thing we noticed was that sometimes the baby isn't really hungry but seems to want to just chew. We've also noticed that she usually calms down if I take her and hold her. It's as if mommy's smell (or the milk smell) triggers the instinct to suckle even when she doesn't need it, but since I don't smell like that she settles down and usually falls asleep pretty fast.

Or maybe it's just my lullaby singing voice.... well maybe not.

But either way we're gonna try getting her used to a more regular feeding schedule in the hope that she won't form the habit of just wanting to use mommy as a pacifier even when she's not hungry.

One thing we noticed was that sometimes the baby isn't really hungry but seems to want to just chew. We've also noticed that she usually calms down if I take her and hold her. It's as if mommy's smell (or the milk smell) triggers the instinct to suckle even when she doesn't need it, but since I don't smell like that she settles down and usually falls asleep pretty fast.

Or maybe it's just my lullaby singing voice.... well maybe not.

But either way we're gonna try getting her used to a more regular feeding schedule in the hope that she won't form the habit of just wanting to use mommy as a pacifier even when she's not hungry.
Mommy=food. If you are sure she's not hungry and she just wants some suck time, have your wife put her finger in baby's mouth, that way it saves her breast the chewing and baby gets some comfort sucking done.

I had to supplement at one point with formula and my daughter wouldn't take the bottle from me, hubby had to do those, she knew I had the "good stuff" and she didn't want that bottle from me.

I will have to try that. She seems to only get fussy like that at the same time every night. All day long if we can get a good latch and I am comfortable it doesn't take much its getting to that point that takes the time. I hadn't been taking off her onsie when feeding her because she hates the shirt going over her head. I went a head a tried it yesterday because it was suggested and I think it definitely made a difference. If nothing else it made her a little more willing to work with me.:D

Thanks!! :)

Mommy=food. If you are sure she's not hungry and she just wants some suck time, have your wife put her finger in baby's mouth, that way it saves her breast the chewing and baby gets some comfort sucking done.

My mom did this a lot with my baby brother and it seemed to make him quite happy. Also, sometimes my dad would hold Baby Brother while shirtless, and the skin-skin contact seemed to have a soothing effect.

Oddly, even though Baby Brother never sucked his own thumb, he used to love sitting on my lap and sucking MY thumb. This stopped when teething began.

Lanolin. Best stuff EVAH for chapped nipples.

Any ideas for lanolin intolerant people?

My mom did this a lot with my baby brother and it seemed to make him quite happy. Also, sometimes my dad would hold Baby Brother while shirtless, and the skin-skin contact seemed to have a soothing effect.

Oddly, even though Baby Brother never sucked his own thumb, he used to love sitting on my lap and sucking MY thumb. This stopped when teething began.
Babies love skin to skin contact. My husband would often lay on the couch and have the baby sleep on his chest. If they wouldn't latch on or were too fidgety I would make sure they had belly/belly contact, even if it meant both of us being topless.

Any ideas for lanolin intolerant people?

Cocoa butter, only make sure it's washed off before nursing.

Cocoa butter, only make sure it's washed off before nursing.

Cool, thanks.

Cool, thanks.

If the cocoa butter isn't working... shea butter (also washing off before nursing) or if you're really desperate.... crisco. I swear.

If the cocoa butter isn't working... shea butter (also washing off before nursing) or if you're really desperate.... crisco. I swear.

:D.All good thanks again.

I wonder how the last one would go down. "Trust me dearest, the internet told me this would work." :)

it's like my boobies knew that wasn't the baby.

Even Smunk's boobs haz teh smrt.

Any ideas for lanolin intolerant people?

Ay! I never suspected there might be such a person! When I had no lanolin, I used hemp oil, the community nurse said it was fine.

Ay! I never suspected there might be such a person!

I have found it goodpolicy to assume everything has an intolerance :)

When I had no lanolin, I used hemp oil, the community nurse said it was fine.

That's cool too.

Positive support from your husband is a must. Mine always acted like breastfeeding was an unnatural act and so did his parents. I was shunted into a bedroom until I "got it over with." I was lucky to get to five weeks - at least my daughter got the antibodies.

Positive support from your husband is a must. Mine always acted like breastfeeding was an unnatural act and so did his parents. I was shunted into a bedroom until I "got it over with." I was lucky to get to five weeks - at least my daughter got the antibodies.

I used to hate how I would be ushered upstairs when at my mother-in-law's house. My family had no problem with it whatsoever. The problem was not with me, and breastfeeding in general, but with the repressed and archaic 'sensibilities' of idiots.

First of all...don't give up! I can't believe how many women I've known personally who stopped long before even the three week mark, so good job so far!

My previous wife tried to breastfeed, and she was lucky to get a teaspoon of milk out of both breasts (total) at any one time. At the three week mark, the lactation consultant called for an ambulance, because the wife refused to stop trying, and the baby ended up in the hospital for a week with severe dehydration and weight loss.

I was willing to help her try for three weeks, but that dogged insistence that the near absence of milk was "a lot of milk" was grounds for divorce. To her, even if the child died it was paramount that she continue to try.

My previous wife tried to breastfeed, and she was lucky to get a teaspoon of milk out of both breasts (total) at any one time. At the three week mark, the lactation consultant called for an ambulance, because the wife refused to stop trying, and the baby ended up in the hospital for a week with severe dehydration and weight loss.

I was willing to help her try for three weeks, but that dogged insistence that the near absence of milk was "a lot of milk" was grounds for divorce. To her, even if the child died it was paramount that she continue to try.

Is that actually why you divorced her?

And that's just silly. There are women who can't breastfeed.

Is that actually why you divorced her?

And that's just silly. There are women who can't breastfeed.

Yes. She wouldn't admit that it was physically impossible, and in the end, she appeared psychopathic about it to me.

Yes. She wouldn't admit that it was physically impossible, and in the end, she appeared psychopathic about it to me.

Soooo...you divorced your wife because she was obsessed about breastfeeding...

Couldn't have anything to do with post-natal hormonal changes...

Well okay I suppose there have been weirder reasons for divorce.

Soooo...you divorced your wife because she was obsessed about breastfeeding...

Couldn't have anything to do with post-natal hormonal changes...

Well okay I suppose there have been weirder reasons for divorce.

Obsessed to the point of endangering and damaging a baby, yes.

Any ideas for lanolin intolerant people?
Breast milk.

When you're finished feeding, just express a bit of milk and rub it on your nipples.

Really. This works really well.

Breast milk.

When you're finished feeding, just express a bit of milk and rub it on your nipples.

Really. This works really well.

Iz true.

Or maybe it's just my lullaby singing voice.... well maybe not.

I know what it is...


You bore the baby to sleep...

;)

My one tip is to avoid breastfeeding in public, unless you're the sort who already makes a habit of whipping out the boobs in public.

you should judge your success in breastfeeding by whether or not the baby is gaining weight the way she should. if she is, you are doing it right no matter how insecure you feel in your breastfeeding skills.

if there is a le leche league in your area, contact them for some advice. i think they will even send someone over to your house to see how you are really doing.

Hello mothers of NSG. I have a three week old daughter that I am trying to breastfeed. The experience continues to be a daily struggle. I cannot find a comfortable position for the both of us to be in, one that makes it easy for her to latch on but does not kill my back in the process. I spoke with a lactation consultant while I was still in the hospital, suggesting the football hold was the best, but I have not really used that since I have been home. It wasn't working well. I have a breast pump and could give her breast milk that way, which I have been doing periodically, but I really want the nursing to work.

If you have some advice please post!

I found relaxing, laying in bed on my side while cradling my son helped. I fell asleep whenever I nursed him anyhow, so it became convenient.

Hello mothers of NSG. I have a three week old daughter that I am trying to breastfeed. The experience continues to be a daily struggle. I cannot find a comfortable position for the both of us to be in, one that makes it easy for her to latch on but does not kill my back in the process. I spoke with a lactation consultant while I was still in the hospital, suggesting the football hold was the best, but I have not really used that since I have been home. It wasn't working well. I have a breast pump and could give her breast milk that way, which I have been doing periodically, but I really want the nursing to work.

If you have some advice please post!

if there isnt a la leche league in your area, call up the lactation consultant that you worked with in the hospital. she is almost certain to be thrilled to have you go in and get more advice.

feeling more secure in what you are doing will make breastfeeding work better.

I know what it is...


You bore the baby to sleep...

;)

Zing!

Just wait 'till she's 15 and having to sit through my fatherly advice...

you should judge your success in breastfeeding by whether or not the baby is gaining weight the way she should. if she is, you are doing it right no matter how insecure you feel in your breastfeeding skills.

if there is a le leche league in your area, contact them for some advice. i think they will even send someone over to your house to see how you are really doing.

She gained about a pound after the first week home, and continues to grow. She's doing great, and so far the new system PB&J and I have discussed seems to be working.

Zing!

Just wait 'till she's 15 and having to sit through my fatherly advice...



She gained about a pound after the first week home, and continues to grow. She's doing great, and so far the new system PB&J and I have discussed seems to be working.

thats good to hear.

id have to say that y'all must be doing it right then.

I used to hate how I would be ushered upstairs when at my mother-in-law's house. My family had no problem with it whatsoever. The problem was not with me, and breastfeeding in general, but with the repressed and archaic 'sensibilities' of idiots.

I remember my aunt breastfeeding in front of us and my uncle coming home and freaking out that she wasn't doing it somewhere private. It's not like she didn't have a blanket and, honestly, so what if she didn't?

My one tip is to avoid breastfeeding in public, unless you're the sort who already makes a habit of whipping out the boobs in public.

Grow up! Babies have rights too! Including the right to eat when they are hungry.

If you don't like to see breastfeeding then quit looking.

My one tip is to avoid breastfeeding in public, unless you're the sort who already makes a habit of whipping out the boobs in public.

Oh, please. There are ways of breastfeeding in public without making an obvious show.

And of all the supposedly offensive things that could be done in public, this certainly doesn't qualify. Unlike, for instance, smoking, it doesn't stink or present a health problem.

"Honi soit qui mal y pense."

My one tip is to avoid breastfeeding in public, unless you're the sort who already makes a habit of whipping out the boobs in public.

Baby gotta eat.

I remember my aunt breastfeeding in front of us and my uncle coming home and freaking out that she wasn't doing it somewhere private. It's not like she didn't have a blanket and, honestly, so what if she didn't?
My wife has the opposite problem, nursing in Japan is considered absolutely normal and non-sexual (For the most part, this IS Japan after all) so there's no culture issues about my son getting his lunch on a crowded bullet train in front of everyone else.

She just can't accept that doing the same in the US can be illegal in some places and usually causes a lot of disapproval. I usually have to listen to a lecture about how silly American attitudes are. :p

My wife has the opposite problem, nursing in Japan is considered absolutely normal and non-sexual (For the most part, this IS Japan after all) so there's no culture issues about my son getting his lunch on a crowded bullet train in front of everyone else.

She just can't accept that doing the same in the US can be illegal in some places and usually causes a lot of disapproval. I usually have to listen to a lecture about how silly American attitudes are. :p

That's quite interesting. I wonder if it is because Japan is a first world nation with a strong culture.

The reason I say that is because I recently met someone who got an OBE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE) for encouraging breastfeeding. Especially amoung ethnic minorities (which around there probably means Pakistani, with a few others in the mix). Apparently she originally faced a bit of an uphill struggle because many new mothers from such backgrounds were quite asperational to appear "white/western" and would use bottle feed rather then breast feed, and seeing breastfeeding as a Bad Thing and almost barbaric.

I found that quite interesting.

thats good to hear.

id have to say that y'all must be doing it right then.

Fortunately this is my 4th child, though I don't interfere with how PB&J handles it because she's doing great. It does mean that when I TELL her she's doing great, I know what I'm talking about ;)

My wife has the opposite problem, nursing in Japan is considered absolutely normal and non-sexual (For the most part, this IS Japan after all) so there's no culture issues about my son getting his lunch on a crowded bullet train in front of everyone else.

She just can't accept that doing the same in the US can be illegal in some places and usually causes a lot of disapproval. I usually have to listen to a lecture about how silly American attitudes are. :p
Tell her to do it anyway! They can't really do anything to stop her. I know. I've been there.

The magic phrase is "do you mind if I get him/her a bottle then?" if they say "no" then they can't stop you from breastfeeding there.

Grow up! Babies have rights too! Including the right to eat when they are hungry.

Really? There are plenty of places that don't allow eating. Are they infringing upon my rights too? Or is this just a right babies have in public.

If you don't like to see breastfeeding then quit looking.

Yeah, well normally I do. But you see, the problem is not that I'm going around, hunting down mothers who whip out their boobs to shut their little brats up. I'm already there; they're the ones who infringe upon my right to public decency!

Baby gotta eat.

And I gotta poop, too. But there is a time and place for that.

Oh, please. There are ways of breastfeeding in public without making an obvious show.


If only all breastfeeders knew this.


And of all the supposedly offensive things that could be done in public, this certainly doesn't qualify.

I disagree. Comparing it with something you find more offensive isn't going to suddenly change my mind.

Unlike, for instance, smoking, it doesn't stink or present a health problem.

Yeah, actually it DOES stink. Breast milk stinks. Babies stink. As for a health problem, I get stressed when people are shitty mothers, and given that 90% of the public breastfeeders are shitty mothers, that stresses me out. Stress is a health risk; it contributes to heart disease which is the #1 killer in America.

And here's something fun. I light up a cigarette and am smoking. Now out of nowhere, Too-Hip-To-Miss-Out Mom comes, whips out her tits and shoves them down the brat's mouth. Now suddenly, self-righteous assholes come out and demand that I move to accomodate this mother's conscious choice to hang around where I am.

I mean what kind of mother would do that. Frankly, given how many cigarette-smoking fellows like myself there are, I'm surprised you're incouraging mothers taking their babies in public at all! They're obviously irresponsible if they do; not only is there cigarettes (a neglible risk in this situation), but general air pollution, auto emissions, and of course cancer-causing sunlight.

"Honi soit qui mal y pense."

Whoever mentioned "evil?" Well, I'm not shamed.

Grow up! Babies have rights too! Including the right to eat when they are hungry.

If you don't like to see breastfeeding then quit looking.

Agreed. however, the mothers can't complain if people stop and watch. ;)

If only all breastfeeders knew this.oh hell yes.

nothing spoils my day like a woman whipping out the bullhorn and spotlight just before she feeds her baby. :p

Really? There are plenty of places that don't allow eating. Are they infringing upon my rights too? Or is this just a right babies have in public.
I'm sure you'd rather hear the child screaming? Or are babies not allowed in public in your perfect world? Where grown ups eat, babies can too. That's how it works.

Yeah, well normally I do. Bu you see, the problem is not that I'm going around, hunting down mothers who whip out their boobs to shut their little brats up. I'm already there; they're the ones who infringe upon my right to public decency!

You know you don't have a right to public decency right? I mean seriously. You not liking something doesn't mean it's any of your business to dictate others actions.


And I gotta poop, too. But there is a time and place for that.

Yep, and next time you gotta eat go home and do it in your room. Nobody wants to watch that! It offends my sensibilities, it should be illegal.


If only all breastfeeders knew this.
Are you under the impression that breastfeeding mothers are exhibitionists? Popping out their tits to annoy you? They are feeding the baby.

I disagree. Comparing it with something you find more offensive isn't going to suddenly change my mind.
How is it offensive?

Yeah, actually it DOES stink. Breast milk stinks.
How close do you have to be to smell it? I breastfed for nearly a year, didn't smell a thing.
Babies stink.
So do old people. Your point?
As for a health problem, I get stressed when people are shitty mothers, and given that 90% of the public breastfeeders are shitty mothers, that stresses me out.
Shitty mothers who feed their children when they are hungry? :rolleyes: Call the police! That mother is feeding her baby!
Stress is a health risk; it contributes to heart disease which is the #1 killer in America.
I suggest you chill out then. You are the only one who controls your stress level.

And here's something fun. I light up a cigarette and am smoking. Now out of nowhere, Too-Hip-To-Miss-Out Mom comes, whips out her tits and shoves them down the brat's mouth. Now suddenly, self-righteous assholes come out and demand that I move to accomodate this mother's conscious choice to hang around where I am.
Yet you expect an infant to accommodate your choice to hang out where babies are?

I mean what kind of mother would do that.
What kind of mother leaves the house?
Frankly, given how many cigarette-smoking fellows like myself there are, I'm surprised you're incouraging mothers taking their babies in public at all!
Babies should be confined to their room and mom should stay there too? Until when?

They're obviously irresponsible if they do; not only is there cigarettes (a neglible risk in this situation), but general air pollution, auto emissions, and of course cancer-causing sunlight.

Ah! I get it, you're doing satire right?


Whoever mentioned "evil?" Well, I'm not shamed.
Maybe you should be.
Agreed. however, the mothers can't complain if people stop and watch. ;)
It's pretty rude to stare at someone while they are eating :P

I'm sure you'd rather hear the child screaming? Or are babies not allowed in public in your perfect world? Where grown ups eat, babies can too. That's how it works.

Grown-ups eating doesn't involve public indecency.

And, why do you use the verb "eat" when there's no solid food or chewing involved? Make it seem like something other than a baby sucking milk out of a tit?

As for hearing the child screaming, no. I'd rather people do their child rearing elsewhere than my face.

You know you don't have a right to public decency right?

Really, most places have laws that seem to indicate otherwise.

I mean seriously. You not liking something doesn't mean it's any of your business to dictate others actions.

Then you don't mind if I just pee in front of your house, do you? I mean, not on your property. Onto the street where it'll go nice and clean into the drains. You don't have a right to dictate my actions, do you?

Yep, and next time you gotta eat go home and do it in your room. Nobody wants to watch that! It offends my sensibilities, it should be illegal.

Generally, I do eat at home. But that's kind of beside the point. Most people can tell there's a qualitative difference between a woman's breast and my face. ;)

Are you under the impression that breastfeeding mothers are exhibitionists? Popping out their tits to annoy you?

No, why? They just obviously think their needs - all of them, including their right not to bother with bathrooms - outweigh everyone else's. They're the princess, they're preggers, someone fucked them and they're special.


How close do you have to be to smell it? I breastfed for nearly a year, didn't smell a thing.


I've noticed I can't tickle myself and generally don't smell the scent of my own sweat either. I must not be ticklish, and I smell like absolutely nothing.


So do old people. Your point?

I thought "stinking" was some sort of major point against cigarette smoke. Well, it's not really limited to cigarette smoke. If it's a valid reason, then hey we should ban public breastfeeding for the same reason.

Shitty mothers who feed their children when they are hungry?

Why yes, it's possible for such mothers to be shitty mothers. But you are misinterpreting my argument if you say that's the only qualifying reason - perhaps you missed the context. Read some more.

I suggest you chill out then. You are the only one who controls your stress level.

So like, if I torture someone and they're stressed as a result - it's their fault? They should just chill out and learn to enjoy it. Sounds about right to me!

Yet you expect an infant to accommodate your choice to hang out where babies are?

The infant does not have the responsibility or volition of movement and activity in this situation, so no.

What kind of mother leaves the house?

..Can't let something like motherhood interfere with her social affairs. Baby comes along, regardless of where! Hey let's go to the park. Then baby can get a good whiff of automobile emissions. That's an acceptable risk for baby. Let's go driving! The risk of dying in an auto accident - another acceptable risk for baby. As long as mommy isn't trapped at home doing something like childrearing, it's all acceptable.

Ah! I get it, you're doing satire right?

I get it, you're conceding the argument right?

Maybe you should be.

Maybe indecent mothers should be.

Then you don't mind if I just pee in front of your house, do you? I mean, not on your property. Onto the street where it'll go nice and clean into the drains. You don't have a right to dictate my actions, do you?

For what it's worth, I wouldn't mind. Go right ahead.

I've never really understood "public decency" laws.

That's quite interesting. I wonder if it is because Japan is a first world nation with a strong culture.

The reason I say that is because I recently met someone who got an OBE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBE) for encouraging breastfeeding. Especially amoung ethnic minorities (which around there probably means Pakistani, with a few others in the mix). Apparently she originally faced a bit of an uphill struggle because many new mothers from such backgrounds were quite asperational to appear "white/western" and would use bottle feed rather then breast feed, and seeing breastfeeding as a Bad Thing and almost barbaric.

I found that quite interesting.
Probably more along the lines that Japan imported the nudity taboo from the West (It's not native to Japan) and said taboo has only been in force for the past 50 years or so. Heck, it was still quite possible in the 1950s to find women farmers working topless in the rice fields and even today some elderly women see no issues with going topless in some situations. For most Japanese, breastfeeding is just giving a baby his lunch, so why should that be hidden?

Of course I've also found that Japanese culture as a whole tends to be far more tolerant of children being children (Allowing them to run, play, and talk almost at will) than the West.

Grown-ups eating doesn't involve public indecency.

And, why do you use the verb "eat" when there's no solid food or chewing involved? Make it seem like something other than a baby sucking milk out of a tit?

As for hearing the child screaming, no. I'd rather people do their child rearing elsewhere than my face.



Really, most places have laws that seem to indicate otherwise.



Then you don't mind if I just pee in front of your house, do you? I mean, not on your property. Onto the street where it'll go nice and clean into the drains. You don't have a right to dictate my actions, do you?



Generally, I do eat at home. But that's kind of beside the point. Most people can tell there's a qualitative difference between a woman's breast and my face. ;)



No, why? They just obviously think their needs - all of them, including their right not to bother with bathrooms - outweigh everyone else's. They're the princess, they're preggers, someone fucked them and they're special.



I've noticed I can't tickle myself and generally don't smell the scent of my own sweat either. I must not be ticklish, and I smell like absolutely nothing.



I thought "stinking" was some sort of major point against cigarette smoke. Well, it's not really limited to cigarette smoke. If it's a valid reason, then hey we should ban public breastfeeding for the same reason.



Why yes, it's possible for such mothers to be shitty mothers. But you are misinterpreting my argument if you say that's the only qualifying reason - perhaps you missed the context. Read some more.



So like, if I torture someone and they're stressed as a result - it's their fault? They should just chill out and learn to enjoy it. Sounds about right to me!



The infant does not have the responsibility or volition of movement and activity in this situation, so no.



..Can't let something like motherhood interfere with her social affairs. Baby comes along, regardless of where! Hey let's go to the park. Then baby can get a good whiff of automobile emissions. That's an acceptable risk for baby. Let's go driving! The risk of dying in an auto accident - another acceptable risk for baby. As long as mommy isn't trapped at home doing something like childrearing, it's all acceptable.



I get it, you're conceding the argument right?



Maybe indecent mothers should be.

So, basically, women and children who are doing something natural, necessary, healthy, normal and legal should stay home and never ever go in public because you don't have enough self control not to look at something you don't want to see?

So, basically, women and children who are doing something natural, necessary, healthy, normal and legal should stay home and never ever go in public because you don't have enough self control not to look at something you don't want to see?



and because feeding a baby is as disgusting as defecating in public.

Really? There are plenty of places that don't allow eating. Are they infringing upon my rights too? Or is this just a right babies have in public.
Small difference though, when YOU get hungry, you don't start shrieking. Babies are not mini-adults and they do not have the ability to put off bodily needs the way adults can.

Yeah, well normally I do. But you see, the problem is not that I'm going around, hunting down mothers who whip out their boobs to shut their little brats up. I'm already there; they're the ones who infringe upon my right to public decency!
Yes, God forbid that mothers be mothers! It's a boob, get over it.

And I gotta poop, too. But there is a time and place for that.
See reply number one, your argument makes no sense as babies do not wait, they cannot understand waiting, everything is NOW, no matter if your offended or not.

Yeah, actually it DOES stink. Breast milk stinks. Babies stink. As for a health problem, I get stressed when people are shitty mothers, and given that 90% of the public breastfeeders are shitty mothers, that stresses me out. Stress is a health risk; it contributes to heart disease which is the #1 killer in America.
My heart bleeds peanut butter for you. :rolleyes:

I mean what kind of mother would do that. Frankly, given how many cigarette-smoking fellows like myself there are, I'm surprised you're incouraging mothers taking their babies in public at all! They're obviously irresponsible if they do; not only is there cigarettes (a neglible risk in this situation), but general air pollution, auto emissions, and of course cancer-causing sunlight.
That has to be one of the stupidest arguments I have ever had the displeasure to read on NSG. That's right up there with some of he stuff Freedom and Glory used to come up with.

Grown-ups eating doesn't involve public indecency.
And that has WHAT to do with the price of beans? What did you think those things were FOR anyway?

And, why do you use the verb "eat" when there's no solid food or chewing involved? Make it seem like something other than a baby sucking milk out of a tit?
Eat: v, tr # To take into the body by the mouth for digestion or absorption. (American Heritage Dictionary)

Eating means getting food in, not just solids.

As for hearing the child screaming, no. I'd rather people do their child rearing elsewhere than my face.
How nice... You know what, I want you to call your mom on Sunday and ask her if she took YOU anywhere when you were a baby and if she DID... well, I'm sure you'll tell her how that made her a, ah, shitty mother that she inflicted you on someone else.

Then you don't mind if I just pee in front of your house, do you? I mean, not on your property. Onto the street where it'll go nice and clean into the drains. You don't have a right to dictate my actions, do you?
Another stupid argument. Breast milk is not a waste product.

Generally, I do eat at home. But that's kind of beside the point. Most people can tell there's a qualitative difference between a woman's breast and my face.
Naw... not going to say it, it's WAY too easy.

No, why? They just obviously think their needs - all of them, including their right not to bother with bathrooms - outweigh everyone else's. They're the princess, they're preggers, someone fucked them and they're special.

No, they are NOT pregnant, they are mothers. You DO know the difference right? And they are responding not to their needs, but their baby's, who, again, does not have any control over their own selves. And finally, guess what? YOUR mom did the same for YOU! And I'm more than willing to bet that when you were less than a year old, YOU also felt that your needs were immediately pressing too.

I thought "stinking" was some sort of major point against cigarette smoke.
No, the major point is that cigarette smoke can cause cancer in people who are not smoking. Since breast milk does NOT...

Well, it's not really limited to cigarette smoke. If it's a valid reason, then hey we should ban public breastfeeding for the same reason.
I take back the stupid argument comment above, this one tops it. It sounds more as if you just have sour grapes that you are not allowed to smoke in public anymore and are taking it out on nursing mothers.

So like, if I torture someone and they're stressed as a result - it's their fault? They should just chill out and learn to enjoy it. Sounds about right to me!
And coming out of left field, it's the totally inane comparison!

The infant does not have the responsibility or volition of movement and activity in this situation, so no.
The infant also cannot control when he wants food either.

..Can't let something like motherhood interfere with her social affairs. Baby comes along, regardless of where! Hey let's go to the park. Then baby can get a good whiff of automobile emissions. That's an acceptable risk for baby. Let's go driving! The risk of dying in an auto accident - another acceptable risk for baby. As long as mommy isn't trapped at home doing something like childrearing, it's all acceptable.
Again, call your mom on Mother's Day and tell her this. Hopefully she'll slap you silly for saying things that are this stupid.

My son leaves the house because he parents need to from time to time for travel or food shopping. He also leaves the house because that's how babies learn, I can't bring the outside world to him and since I want him to grow up strong and healthy, yes, I am damn well going to take him out to the park, on walks, to the store, and so on. As he gets older and can handle it, I'll gladly take him to restaurants, museums, the sea, everywhere because I want my child to experience the world.

It isn't YOUR world alone, it's HIS too. HE is going to be (God willing) around long after you are worm food. And if you can't handle that fact, or that my son will want to eat, I suggest you just stay at home yourself.

Small difference though, when YOU get hungry, you don't start shrieking. Babies are not mini-adults and they do not have the ability to put off bodily needs the way adults can.

And this translates to an answer of my question how? It doesn't. We're not talking about biological differences between babies and adults. We're talking about the so-called "rights" that MOTHERS apparently have, to go anywhere and do anything at any time.

Yes, God forbid that mothers be mothers! It's a boob, get over it.

I am not opposing that "mothers be mothers," the subject here is breastfeeding in public. Since you're the one descending quickly into hysterical irrationality I suggest you calm down - I'm fine.

See reply number one, your argument makes no sense as babies do not wait, they cannot understand waiting, everything is NOW, no matter if your offended or not.

So what? Hey, I'm impatient too.

And this issue really seems to be that the mothers can't understand waiting, everything is NOW, no matter what anyone else thinks. After all, it's not that babies breastfeed, it's that mothers feel it's acceptable to do so anytime, anywhere.

My heart bleeds peanut butter for you. :rolleyes:

I'll take that as your cute way of conceding my points, since it's pretty clear I was arguing, not asking for your (or anyone's) mockery OR sympathy.

That has to be one of the stupidest arguments I have ever had the displeasure to read on NSG. That's right up there with some of he stuff Freedom and Glory used to come up with.

Right - it's stupid, but you can't articulate in what way. It's stupid, but you can't refute it. That's a convenient kind of "stupid."

And that has WHAT to do with the price of beans?

If you can't keep up with the discussion, I suggest you not butt in with increasingly inane questions like that. I'm not going to carry your weight.

What did you think those things were FOR anyway?

Gosh, you're so right. Breasts are for breastfeeding. That's so incredibly relevant to the discussion. Hey, what did you think assholes were for? That's right, pooping. Therefore I'll poop wherever and whenever I feel like.

Eat: v, tr # To take into the body by the mouth for digestion or absorption. (American Heritage Dictionary)

Eating means getting food in, not just solids.

Eat: transitive verb1: to take in through the mouth as food : ingest, chew, and swallow in turn

Merriam-Webster Dictionary.

How nice... You know what, I want you to call your mom on Sunday and ask her if she took YOU anywhere when you were a baby and if she DID... well, I'm sure you'll tell her how that made her a, ah, shitty mother that she inflicted you on someone else.

Whether or not I call my mom has nothing to do with my argument. For a guy who's real quick to call my argument stupid, you're even quicker to make exceptionally unreasonable comments.

Another stupid argument. Breast milk is not a waste product.

Breast milk doesn't need to be a waste product for my point to be sufficient.

Reading is your friend.

Naw... not going to say it, it's WAY too easy.

Oh, well you're the big man, avoiding a chance to make yet ANOTHER ad hominem fallacy.

No, they are NOT pregnant, they are mothers.

I don't know of many mothers that don't go through pregnancy and are never pregnant nor have the mindset of a pregnant woman.

But maybe you do.

And they are responding not to their needs, but their baby's,

...

They are responding to their need to support their baby.

There are plenty of women who do not respond to nor have that need.

I don't know why you're so proud of these little non-arguments that don't even address my arguments at all.

And finally, guess what? YOUR mom did the same for YOU!

Oh gosh! Really? Holy shit, that's terribly relevant!

And I'm more than willing to bet that when you were less than a year old, YOU also felt that your needs were immediately pressing too.

Wow, you're right! When I was a baby, I was a baby! That completely destroys my argument, since my argument depended on my own personal history's lack of a "baby" phase. Oh wait it didn't and this is yet more irrelevant bullshit.

No, the major point is that cigarette smoke can cause cancer in people who are not smoking. Since breast milk does NOT...

"My heart bleeds peanut butter for you."

Again another irrelevant argument, since whether public breastfeeding causes heart disease or cancer is not the point.

I take back the stupid argument comment above, this one tops it. It sounds more as if you just have sour grapes that you are not allowed to smoke in public anymore and are taking it out on nursing mothers.

It sounds like you have an uncontrollable need to repeat ad hominem and strawmen fallacies.

And coming out of left field, it's the totally inane comparison!

Another cute way of avoiding argument. The comparison is apt, if extreme. You just don't like it since it kinda destroys the sentiment I was responding to - namely that if I disagree with what someone else chooses to do, I must be "DICTATING THEIR ACTIONS" and that this is automatically a bad thing.

The infant also cannot control when he wants food either.

Yes, and the mother can't control where she goes or how she goes about doing things either. She's helpless. That's what you're implying here. She can't help herself or control herself in any way.

Again, call your mom on Mother's Day and tell her this. Hopefully she'll slap you silly for saying things that are this stupid.

More irrelevant nonsense. When you get an actual point that's not either irrelevant, based on your inability to read, or just plain fallacious let me know.

My son leaves the house because he parents need to from time to time for travel or food shopping.

Oh? I thought it wasn't about the mother's needs, just the baby's? Ah yes, that was a few sentences earlier in your post, I can see how you might conveniently forget.

Well you've only proven that it's indeed not about "You hate babies" but "I, mumsy, want to go shopping!"

It isn't YOUR world alone, it's HIS too.

Oh? I pay more taxes than he does. The public is more mine than it is his.

Guess what? The public is not your personal private nudity-opportunity. You have to balance your so-called needs with the needs of the public, like for example the needs of the public to regulate public behavior and forge public decency laws.

HE is going to be (God willing) around long after you are worm food. And if you can't handle that fact, or that my son will want to eat, I suggest you just stay at home yourself.

No. Instead I will be not so far away, smoking my cigarettes. And I will have been there BEFORE you came. And you will have chosen to BE NEAR me, putting your baby KNOWINGLY at risk, all because of your own selfishness and short-sightedness.

That's OK though, I'm fine with playing dice with your baby's life. Apparently you are too.

Greater Trostia, when you choose to take offense at a mother breastfeeding her child, you take offense at something that is natural, life-affirming, and harmless to everyone except those who choose (like you) to pretend to be harmed by it.

When I take offense at smoking, I take offense at something unnatural (taking hot smoke into one's lungs isn't natural by anyone's definition), life-denying and harmful, not just to the smoker, but to everyone in his/her vicinity.

You chose to take offense at something that isn't offensive and then choose to be churlish about it.

I take offense at something that is offensive. If you think I'm churlish about it, that's your choice.

*Snip*
Read through that and all it balances out to, in the end, is "I don't wanna be near babies! WAAAAAAAAAA!"

My 7 mo old son shows more adult behavior than you. Congrats.

I have a question.
If you decide not to breast feed do you still have to pump your breast milk out?

I have a question.
If you decide not to breast feed do you still have to pump your breast milk out?

No. It will be uncomfortable for a bit, but if you don't breast feed it will dry up.

Read through that and all it balances out to, in the end, is "I don't wanna be near babies! WAAAAAAAAAA!"

My 7 mo old son shows more adult behavior than you. Congrats.

What you said. In spades. Sweet zmobie Jeezus, my mild/moderate autistic godson behaves better that he/she/it, and he seems to think staring openly at people is just dandy, thankyewverymuch!

The female breast exists because we developed a handy-dandy way of nourishing our young. Hooray for the mammaries of mammals!

It's pretty pitiful to know that our society has gotten to the point where seeing a breast used for its primary functional purpose is somehow "obscene" or inappropriate.

I hate children, personally, but I also think that Baby's appetite is roughly 5 zillion times more important than the tender sensibilities of some jackass who can't handle the sight of a working breast.

....My heart bleeds peanut butter for you. :rolleyes: ....


1. Nicely formed response.
2. Your heart bleeds peanut butter? :eek:

The female breast exists because we developed a handy-dandy way of nourishing our young. Hooray for the mammaries of mammals!

It's pretty pitiful to know that our society has gotten to the point where seeing a breast used for its primary functional purpose is somehow "obscene" or inappropriate.


What exactly do you mean, "gotten to the point?" Perhaps you can point me at a vaguely-recent time when in general, public nudity was widely accepted in our culture. Presumably this was before wet-blankets like me came onto the scene and ruined EVERYTHING.

I hate children, personally, but I also think that Baby's appetite is roughly 5 zillion times more important than the tender sensibilities of some jackass who can't handle the sight of a working breast.

"Baby's appetite" is more important. "Mommy's need to take baby everywhere" is not.

Once again you do this conflation where I'm not opposed to what Mom is doing, I'm actually opposed to babies. Might as well get something about Jews in there while you're at it. ZOMG U HATE TEH JEWS?

Read through that and all it balances out to, in the end, is "I don't wanna be near babies! WAAAAAAAAAA!"

My 7 mo old son shows more adult behavior than you. Congrats.

When your 7 month old son can do a point-by-point rebuttal of what I've said, let me know.

You talk about "adult behavior," yet your entire arguments were based on logical fallacies, stupid insults, and your clear inability/unwillingness to read through anything. Grow the fuck up and quit wasting my time.

Then again after demolishing your so-called arguments, I can understand why you'd want to take a break from that and just call me names. It's all you seem able to do at this point, why take that away?

Greater Trostia, when you choose to take offense at a mother breastfeeding her child, you take offense at something that is natural, life-affirming, and harmless to everyone except those who choose (like you) to pretend to be harmed by it.

Taking a juicy shit is "natural" and "life-affirming."

This glorification-of-motherhood 'argument' isn't very effective.

Lots of things are "natural," but yet not appropriate at every point in time. Lots of things are "life-affirming," but not appropriate at every place.

When I take offense at smoking, I take offense at something unnatural (taking hot smoke into one's lungs isn't natural by anyone's definition), life-denying and harmful, not just to the smoker, but to everyone in his/her vicinity.

Harmful eh? You're just pretending to be harmed by it, though. What you're really just saying is I marginally increase a health risk. You're no doubt going to hearken back to all sorts of studies that show without a doubt that... living with a heavy smoker who smokes indoors for 20 years increases the rate of cancerous growths for nonsmokers. Or perhaps the many studies that show that working in a bar where there is heavy indoor smoking will increase the risk.

Because you sure as fuck won't find any studies that link you walking in the park, me smoking a cigarette in the park, and you getting any sort of health problem. There aren't any such studies. But that won't stop you in your hypochondriac crusade. The real issue is that you find it "unnatural" and "stinky."

You chose to take offense at something that isn't offensive and then choose to be churlish about it.

It's pretty fucking funny, you're saying I'm "churlish," Bottle says I'm a "jackass," and NERVUN says I'm not displaying "adult behavior." The irony being that you all apparently think stupid name-calling and ad-hominem arguments is mature and acceptable.

Whether you think it's "offensive" or not has nothing to do with whether I think it's offensive. There is no objective model for offensiveness. Not even your precious "life-affirming and natural" standard, which would seem literally to turn shit into shinola.

At any rate, you "chose" to take offense at cigarette smoking as well. That's your choice. Now that we've established people have the free will to have preferences, can we get back to the main argument you guys have? Namely, how many stupid names you can come up with for me.

What exactly do you mean, "gotten to the point?" Perhaps you can point me at a vaguely-recent time when in general, public nudity was widely accepted in our culture. Presumably this was before wet-blankets like me came onto the scene and ruined EVERYTHING.



"Baby's appetite" is more important. "Mommy's need to take baby everywhere" is not.

Once again you do this conflation where I'm not opposed to what Mom is doing, I'm actually opposed to babies. Might as well get something about Jews in there while you're at it. ZOMG U HATE TEH JEWS?
what should mommy do with the baby if she can't take it with her? Stay at home all the time?
I hate babies in public too. Especially when they scream. But c'est la vie.

snip
So, basically - what Smunkee said:

So, basically, women and children who are doing something natural, necessary, healthy, normal and legal should stay home and never ever go in public because you don't have enough self control not to look at something you don't want to see?

what should mommy do with the baby if she can't take it with her? Stay at home all the time?
I hate babies in public too. Especially when they scream. But c'est la vie.

Babies are people, annoying tiny loud smelly people, but people none the less. I am understanding when someone doesn't like babies or children, okay, I'm not, but still, just because you don't like something doesn't mean it gets to completely disappear from your experience. I don't like watching lezzies make out, but they do, and they have just as much right to PDA as old people and fat people and hetro ugly people, and if I don't like it, well, I don't look. If the whole world could just be gay men kissing, I'd be much more comfortable, but it's not, and so I try to avert my eyes and go about my day.

I guess though, that I live in an area where breastfeeding is prevalent, I got more looks from bottle feeding my second than I did whipping out a tit for my first.

It's pretty rude to stare at someone while they are eating :P
one can watch without staring. :cool:

besides one isn't really watching someone eat, because all you see is the back of the baby's head.

now when the baby's done and moves his head... :p
(and yes, I had the... honor... of witnessing that with a customer I was helping at a bookstore, I just calmly turned my head to point out several books the customer might like.)

As for hearing the child screaming, no. I'd rather people do their child rearing elsewhere than my face.

You should stay in your house and never leave.

Snip


It's pretty fucking funny, you're saying I'm "churlish," Bottle says I'm a "jackass," and NERVUN says I'm not displaying "adult behavior." The irony being that you all apparently think stupid name-calling and ad-hominem arguments is mature and acceptable.

Whether you think it's "offensive" or not has nothing to do with whether I think it's offensive. There is no objective model for offensiveness. Not even your precious "life-affirming and natural" standard, which would seem literally to turn shit into shinola.

At any rate, you "chose" to take offense at cigarette smoking as well. That's your choice. Now that we've established people have the free will to have preferences, can we get back to the main argument you guys have? Namely, how many stupid names you can come up with for me.

Yes, you are churlish. Please tell me why a mother breastfeeding is more offensive than a stripper stripping or a lap dancer lap dancing? Is it the context? Do you think the sexual objectification of a woman is less offensive than a woman using her breasts for something that is not sexual?

We shouldn't get bogged down by what's natural or not, it's a totally meaningless and arbitrary term right now, saying something is natural does not add any objective value to it.

Hey, kids! Milk and cookies time!

(Parentals will recognise the food-as-distraction technique. But I'd rather do that than have to tell someone to go sit in the time-out chair, which is what will happen if this thread sticks to the "you're so immature, no, you are, grow-the-fuck-up" exchanges.)

So cut it out.

Greater Trostia, particularly, you've made your point: that you find the sight of a woman breastfeeding in public offensive. You're obviously not going to convince any of the posters who have replied that they should find it offensive too.

If you have nothing else to add, I'd suggest you leave the thread -- which began, incidentally, as practical advice to a new mother on how to breastfeed, so your diversion is something of a threadjack.

Equally, those who have replied, you're not going to convince GT by yelling at him. Perhaps you could get back to the helpful tone by discussing how to breastfeed in public without being bothered.

Grown-ups eating doesn't involve public indecency.

Neither does breastfeeding.

No, why? They just obviously think their needs - all of them, including their right not to bother with bathrooms - outweigh everyone else's. They're the princess, they're preggers, someone fucked them and they're special.

Um....they aren't "preggers" anymore. Meanwhile, why on earth would any mother want to feed her child in the bathroom? Do you eat in a bathroom?

I thought "stinking" was some sort of major point against cigarette smoke.

You thought wrong.

And this translates to an answer of my question how? It doesn't. We're not talking about biological differences between babies and adults. We're talking about the so-called "rights" that MOTHERS apparently have, to go anywhere and do anything at any time.

Mothers have the same rights as any other adult.

Gosh, you're so right. Breasts are for breastfeeding. That's so incredibly relevant to the discussion. Hey, what did you think assholes were for? That's right, pooping. Therefore I'll poop wherever and whenever I feel like.

Breast milk doesn't need to be a waste product for my point to be sufficient.

Defecation "wherever and whenever" you like would pose a health risk to others.

A mother feeding her baby when she happens to be in public does not. In fact, it poses no more threat that bottle feeding her baby in public. Should that be banned as well?

...

They are responding to their need to support their baby.

There are plenty of women who do not respond to nor have that need.

A woman who has a baby and does not respond to the needs of that baby is a poor mother.

Of course, you would have us believe that a mother who dares take her infant out in public and still dares to respond to his needs is a bad mother.

Oh? I pay more taxes than he does. The public is more mine than it is his.

Guess what? The public is not your personal private nudity-opportunity. You have to balance your so-called needs with the needs of the public, like for example the needs of the public to regulate public behavior and forge public decency laws.

And what need does the public have to keep women from breastfeeding their children in public?

Whether you think it's "offensive" or not has nothing to do with whether I think it's offensive.

Whether you think it's offensive or not has nothing to do with whether or not it should be legal.

Knock it off, folks. Leave GT's diversion alone. Do not reply directly to it, as he may then feel compelled to reply to you, thus continuing the threadjack and, probably, killing the thread.

If you want to start another thread on community attitudes to public breastfeeding, go ahead. Otherwise, please re-read the OP and return to the topic.

Whole books of advice have been written on the how-tos of breastfeeding, I'm sure the collective experience of NSG's matriarchs isn't exhausted yet. (Why, when I was feeding my fifth at work one day ...)

Hello mothers of NSG. I have a three week old daughter that I am trying to breastfeed. The experience continues to be a daily struggle. I cannot find a comfortable position for the both of us to be in, one that makes it easy for her to latch on but does not kill my back in the process. I spoke with a lactation consultant while I was still in the hospital, suggesting the football hold was the best, but I have not really used that since I have been home. It wasn't working well. I have a breast pump and could give her breast milk that way, which I have been doing periodically, but I really want the nursing to work.

If you have some advice please post!

Have you considered speaking to a professional in the field (not a shrink or anything:p)? I´ve heard there are some people skilled in aiding mothers to properly breast feed in case the traditional methods don´t work. I´ve also heard that if the mother seems tense at the moment of feeding, the baby won´t latch to the nipple. Have you been feeling particularly tense or stressed when about to feed your daughter? That might be one of the aspect preventing you from successfully breast feeding. Of course, don´t mind me too much because I´m not a mother. These are things I´ve heard or been told.

^^^ what she said.

My (midwife) sister-in-law advised a schooner of Guinness milk stout to start the day (for me, not the brat). Did wonders for the supply, too.

And, to complete the sentence about the fifth kid -- he was happiest feeding when I was parked in front of a computer typing with both hands, crouched over so he wouldn't fall off my knees. 'Course, by the time you get to the fifth kid, gravity co-operates.

Further dreadful but effective advice, again from a midwife: if you have trouble getting the baby to latch on in public (because concern about others' feelings does make you tense), carry a tube of condensed milk in your handbag. You can smear it on the nipple discreetly (looks like you're scratching under your armpits, but, of course, that's not offensive) and the kid will be reeled in like a hooked fish.

Yes, I know it may be setting yourself up for dental bills later, but when it's a matter of getting the kid fed, pragmatism rules.

And the really off-planet stuff (I do know some weird nurses): cabbage leaves in the bra for sore nipples. Works, honest.

I had a lot of trouble getting my first baby to latch on because she had a tongue-tie (front of tongue was attached to the bottom of her mouth), so I totally sympathize!
I've never tried the football hold, I just lie the baby across in front of me (this can get hard on your back depending on how you're sitting, so a pillow is good).
Not sure how good baby-slings are as I haven't got one, but they look like they might help support the baby's weight. It might be worth borrowing one to try it out if you haven't already.
Hope it works out for you, but ultimately the most important thing is that you are both happy with whatever you decide to do

While I was ranting to my husband about the subject that shouldn't me mentioned, he reminded me that I always had a better feeding after my morning shower, the hot water relaxed my back and my milk let down faster too. You might try that on a day when you are especially having a hard time. A nice warm shower will probably help anyway, seeing as moms never get one! haha!

While I was ranting to my husband about the subject that shouldn't me mentioned ...

*appreciative grin* Nice one, Smunkee!:p

While I was ranting to my husband about the subject that shouldn't me mentioned, he reminded me that I always had a better feeding after my morning shower, the hot water relaxed my back and my milk let down faster too. You might try that on a day when you are especially having a hard time. A nice warm shower will probably help anyway, seeing as moms never get one! haha!

Yes, as has been mentioned by Smunkee and several others, relaxation is one of the more important requirements. If you're tense and stressed, whatever the cause, you and the baby will be miserable. When I was using a rocking chair (a comfortable cushioned one) I had the most success - the rocking motion combined with the ability to lean back securely and put my feet up, were probably factors.

(I do apologise for my part in the GT thing. When I'm irritated by someone, rightly or wrongly, I tend to let my opinion be known - must learn to control this impulse).

Probably more along the lines that Japan imported the nudity taboo from the West (It's not native to Japan) and said taboo has only been in force for the past 50 years or so. Heck, it was still quite possible in the 1950s to find women farmers working topless in the rice fields and even today some elderly women see no issues with going topless in some situations. For most Japanese, breastfeeding is just giving a baby his lunch, so why should that be hidden?

Of course I've also found that Japanese culture as a whole tends to be far more tolerant of children being children (Allowing them to run, play, and talk almost at will) than the West.

That's pretty interesting. I think I recall reading something comparing nudity taboos, didn't think to link it to breastfeeding though.

Though it could be more that the Anglosphere is the aberration in this regard though.

(I do apologise for my part in the GT thing. When I'm irritated by someone, rightly or wrongly, I tend to let my opinion be known - must learn to control this impulse).
Me too. I also have this momma bear protective thing going on, and I get very defensive and bitchy when I feel like someone is being slighted or attacked. Sorry PBJ I just "momma beared"* you.

*this is a term my husband uses when I go into protect mode

*Considers suggesting that, for NS2, the ultimate mod penalty be something like, "We wash our hands of you; we're turning you over to The Mothers."*:p

*Considers suggesting that, for NS2, the ultimate mod penalty be something like, "We wash our hands of you; we're turning you over to The Mothers."*:p

there's a quote I love from a fantasy book. a woman's children were kidnapped and taken to another world/dimension and she follows. She ends up attacking a helpless (but soon to be helpful) denizen and when all is said and done...

"damn, I forgot the first Rule of nature."
"and what's that?"
"Never piss off the mommy." :D