NationStates Jolt Archive

I know a contradiction in terms. An oxymoron if you will.

An Australian university has proposed that from 2010 as part of their degree it will become compulsory for all students to undertake volunteer work.

Link: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,23652148-2702,00.html

Basically students will be given the opportunity to join Australia Volunteers International which will see them working in places in Australia, the South Pacific and Southeast Asia.

Another aspect of this new curriculum to cover all degrees is that students must do subjects from each of the three main areas Arts, Social Sciences and sciences.

While I can see some merit I don't think Universities should be allowed to force students to do volunteer work. Especially when you have to join one organisation that may see you sent off overseas for a period of time, students do have lives outside of Uni including work that provides much needed money for living expenses, it may also be difficult for students to get the needed time off work. In regards to having to join this particular program, I would like to know why a student couldn't organise their own volunteer work, I was a member of the State Emergency Service, which did provide valuable help to distressed people in need.

In regards to having to do subjects from extra areas, again I don't think they should forcve them to them do this, I see the merit and I studied subjects provided by different schools and faculties and was able to broaden my knowledge.

So what do you think?
Should universities be able to force their students to do volunteer work?
Should universities be able to make the students do subjects outside of their area?

The article also makes reference to Melbourne University which has implemented a system that is similar to the US system where students do a general degree on anything before going into specialised study. I am glad I never had to do this, it just seems like a waste of a year.

I already pay a good $8,000 per year for my college education (scholarships make up the difference) and shell out another $800 or so per year for books. Those bastards certainly aren't going to wring compulsory labor out of me, wasting my time and forcing me to forfeit far better opportunities out of some illusory need for my help. Find somebody in the 5.0% of the US population that's unemployed and pay them to do it. I don't volunteer because I have better uses of my time...making me or the vast majority of other people do it will just get you a year's worth of malicious compliance, absenteeism, and all-around shitty work that tarnishes the public image of volunteering.

Now, if they were to say waive a good 50% of college costs or more in exchange for service, it might be a route I'd consider. But for as long as they charge what they do, no chance in hell.

Compulsory volunteer work.

[QUOTE=Blouman Empire;13671977]I know a contradiction in terms. An oxymoron if you will.


Thats what they have in Cuba. Lol great thread name.

for the part about classes outside of ones major, I see no problem. Welcome to going to a world-class liberal arts university. This is required by nearly every American university, and am shocked to find out it isn't a global standard.

As for requiring community service, I have no issue with it, and tend to think it is a good idea. You pick your university...if you don't like the requirements, go somewhere else.

for the part about classes outside of ones major, I see no problem. Welcome to going to a world-class liberal arts university. This is required by nearly every American university, and am shocked to find out it isn't a global standard.

As for requiring community service, I have no issue with it, and tend to think it is a good idea. You pick your university...if you don't like the requirements, go somewhere else.

I do think that doing subjects outside of your main area of study is a good idea, and I did a few of those. That is not my main problem, but I don't see why universities should say all students must do subjects from the arts, social sciences and the sciences, I wonder how many engineering students really want to do or care about screen studies, that has nothing to do with their course,their chosen profession or the industry they wish to work in?

But what happens when all university's implement that you must do vlounteer work, and only with the agencies they say, then you can't just go some where else. What about those who might coach I junior sport team, or help out at the local school, will these be reconginsed? As for the Australian university system, you just don't get to pick your university (in the american sense) each state has a independent agency which you make register with and make degree prefrences, you are then offered one of those prefenrences only within each state, if you don't like it then you can decline and hope that between then and the second round of offers the degree you want to do at the university you want to go to hasn't filled up.

So what do you think?
Should universities be able to force their students to do volunteer work?No. they may encourage it by giving credits for it; but if someone doesn't want to do it they should still be able to get a degree.
Should universities be able to make the students do subjects outside of their area?It's typically a good idea if students can look beyond their own subject. Still, it's probably also better encouraged than forced. Just give a few credits for relatively simple introductions to different subjects.

Bad idea. Not everybody is suited to it, not everybody would benefit. Unless its related to your qualification, I see no need for it. Thats regardless of whether the student is paying, the state is paying or its a gift from santy.

In fact, its a fucking awful idea...

3 guesses which uni is going to be begging for government bail out in 2011 after their enrollments completely disappear.

While it is great to volunteer (each year I do about 250 hours Through Surf Life Saving & St John Ambulance. I have got so much out of it that I recommend both organizations to everyone who could be the slightest bit interested.) I don't think it should be compulsory at uni unless there is some form of incentive. We students have enough on our plate without extra stuff. At the very least they need a choice of what they do.

As for compulsory inter-faculty subjects: Just another money pulling scam. We have to pay $800 per subject + textbooks. Ultimately, they'd be paying $1000 for a subject which they are unlikely to ever use and have no desire to do.

I know a contradiction in terms. An oxymoron if you will.

An Australian university has proposed that from 2010 as part of their degree it will become compulsory for all students to undertake volunteer work.

Link: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,23652148-2702,00.html

Basically students will be given the opportunity to join Australia Volunteers International which will see them working in places in Australia, the South Pacific and Southeast Asia.

Another aspect of this new curriculum to cover all degrees is that students must do subjects from each of the three main areas Arts, Social Sciences and sciences.

While I can see some merit I don't think Universities should be allowed to force students to do volunteer work. Especially when you have to join one organisation that may see you sent off overseas for a period of time, students do have lives outside of Uni including work that provides much needed money for living expenses, it may also be difficult for students to get the needed time off work. In regards to having to join this particular program, I would like to know why a student couldn't organise their own volunteer work, I was a member of the State Emergency Service, which did provide valuable help to distressed people in need.

In regards to having to do subjects from extra areas, again I don't think they should forcve them to them do this, I see the merit and I studied subjects provided by different schools and faculties and was able to broaden my knowledge.

So what do you think?
Should universities be able to force their students to do volunteer work?
Should universities be able to make the students do subjects outside of their area?

The article also makes reference to Melbourne University which has implemented a system that is similar to the US system where students do a general degree on anything before going into specialised study. I am glad I never had to do this, it just seems like a waste of a year.Might as well ask whether Universities should force students to do homework to get their degrees. Having done both volunteer work and having been forced to live overseas, I can only applaud the universities for getting their students to go out and get a better education.

I don't think that doing subjects outside of your main area of study is a good idea, and I did a few of those. That is not my main problem, but I don't see why universities should say all students must do subjects from the arts, social sciences and the sciences, I wonder how many engineering students really want to do or care about screen studies, that has nothing to do with their course,their chosen profession or the industry they wish to work in?

I do think that *some* knowledge of the other fields can be quite useful. Maybe not in their chosen profession, but in life. Know something about others. Don't have an expert on French poetry be completely ignorant about the scientific method. Do not have the mathematician respond with "say what?" when one mentions Spinoza. That sort of thing.

Would help immensely in the whole evolution debate ;)

I don't think that doing subjects outside of your main area of study is a good idea, and I did a few of those. That is not my main problem, but I don't see why universities should say all students must do subjects from the arts, social sciences and the sciences, I wonder how many engineering students really want to do or care about screen studies, that has nothing to do with their course,their chosen profession or the industry they wish to work in?

There's plenty to commend a broader education.

Venezuela has been doing this since two years ago. Every university student can't graduate unless they fulfill 120 hours of "Community Service", that is mainly "Compulsory Volunteer Work".

You need to do more than work for 120 hours, although. You need to develop a project, try to apply it in a community, creating a 120 hours plan, (usually more as in several cases, 120 hours are just not enough), and deliver results. For your project, you are supposed to find your own financial support, as neither the university nor the state support you. They just expect the results and nothing else. If you fail to deliver, or don't comply with the requeriments, you need to start again. Plus some bureocrat in some office is the one responsible of the decision if each student "delivered" or "complied with the requeriment", and if he/she didn't, he/she can't get his/her grade.

However, the students from the new Bolivarian University have full state support, of course, in infrastructure, resources, funds, preparation, capacitation...They just have to work for 120 hours in one of the "Misiones", and follow orders, getting automatic aprobation. But that is a different thing.

People volunter because they want to help, you can't force people to want to do this, so I ask, whats the point?

People volunter because they want to help, you can't force people to want to do this, so I ask, whats the point?"Volunteer Work" isn't work you volunteer to do, it's work usually done by volunteers. It actually doesn't really refer to you wanting to do the work at all.

"Volunteer Work" isn't work you volunteer to do, it's work usually done by volunteers. It actually doesn't really refer to you wanting to do the work at all.

Now now don't be a pedant. People volunter because they want to help, how can one do voluntary work without umm you know, voluntering?

Now now don't be a pedant. People volunter because they want to help, how can one do voluntary work without umm you know, voluntering?I've done volunteer work. It really isn't work you volunteer for, it's work usually done by volunteers. Few people do it just cause. Most of the time its to bridge the year that it sometimes takes to get a spot at uni, as an alternative to military service, or to put on your resumé when applying for a carreer in the field you did volunteer work in.

I've done volunteer work. It really isn't work you volunteer for, it's work usually done by volunteers.

I too have done voluntary work. I voluntered, I turned up, and the put me to work.

I too have done voluntary work. I voluntered, I turned up, and the put me to work.We might not be talking about the same thing then.

I wouldn't have as much problem with requiring volunteer service, if the service was not pre-determined by the institution requiring it. If the kid wants to volunteer at a homeless shelter, he should be able to. If he wants to do missionary work, he should be able to.

But... I don't think this is a proper function of higher learning. Make the opportunity available, but don't require it.

It's not exactly "volunteer" when compulsory is tact on to the beginning. It's fucking slave labour is what it is.

We already have that crap here in Ontario. Thanks to the Mike Harris government. All public school students, in order to graduate must complete 40 hours of community work. If you're unlucky and go to a Catholic school, you get up to 80 mandatory community work hours.

I know it's less than what is being done elsewhere but this has been in place since I was in grade 11. I didn't have to do it though; it only affected those entering grade 9 that year; I think it was in 2000.

It's asinine either way, and the Australian university should shove it.

I know people who had to do this and they were unhappy about it, especially since this is when students when start taking part time jobs.

I have the impression that some people don't understand the concept of volunteer work. This isn't going someplace and working for charity, volunteer work is about applying to and being employed by a charitable organization for a limited amount of time as a type of employee inbetween a professional and someone who shows up in their spare time. You get paid. This is NOT going somewhere and volunteering to help out, its an actual job. It's very beneficial to someone going to university because it teaches you about the job market, about applying, and what work is really like. It is different from doing community service hours.

David 'Call me Dave' Cameron wants to do the same thing in the UK. Hopefully, if Brown doesn't call a general election until 2010 i might just be able to escape it.

I think it's s stupid idea. Students pay enough money for just getting to uni and then being forced to pay for "volunteer" work which you don't want to is stupid. Some people don't have time for this, like people with mortgages and kids.

We might not be talking about the same thing then.

Heh maybe, or our defintions don't match.

Heh maybe, or our defintions don't match.Well, volunteer work and volunteer work are completely different things, only the English language is incapable of differentiating between the two. In German, for instance, there's a difference: We have voluntary work and "honorable office" work, the latter probably being closer to what you're referring to, as it's by definition unpaid, whereas voluntary work is not.

Well, volunteer work and volunteer work are completely different things, only the English language is incapable of differentiating between the two. In German, for instance, there's a difference: We have voluntary work and "honorable office" work, the latter probably being closer to what you're referring to, as it's by definition unpaid, whereas voluntary work is not.

Ahhh I see, yep by voluntary work I mean when somebody voluteers to do unpaid work, normaly for a charity or other organisation whose aim it is to offer aid to verious groups.

As an example, I once worked on a voluntary basis at a school for physicaly handicapped kids.

Ahhh I see, yep by voluntary work I mean when somebody voluteers to do unpaid work, normaly for a charity or other organisation whose aim it is to offer aid to verious groups.

As an example, I once worked on a voluntary basis at a school for physicaly handicapped kids.Yeah, judging from the article, that's exactly what isn't at question here.

Yeah, judging from the article, that's exactly what isn't at question here.

Then may I suggest the term 'work experiance'

Then may I suggest the term 'work experiance'Dictionaries disagree. The English translation for "Ehrenamt" and "Freiwilligendienst" is "Volunteer Service" in either case, even though there is a difference.

So what do you think?
Should universities be able to force their students to do volunteer work?
Should universities be able to make the students do subjects outside of their area?

No, because if you force student to do Volunteer work, then it's not Voluntary anymore is it? Also, I don't think the students will get anything out of it (if anything at all) if they are forced to volunteer. They'd most likely try to get through it as fast as they can to get it over with. This means cutting corners and doing a half ass job. I think if students are actually allow to Volunteer for these work, they'd appreciate them more.

If you're talking about General Studies before you get to your specific area of study, then once again I'd have to say no. Of course in the states, the only reason they do this is that they want us to be a "well rounded" person. I'm sorry but I'm not going to college to be a well rounded person, I'm going to college to learn how to do a job that requires more than a High School Diploma.

This whole thing reminds me of my 2.5 years at my undergrad college. They had this thing called "cultural credits" and you had to complete a certain amount before you can graduate. These include going to lectures, watching videos, etc. It's basically another way for you to be a well rounded person, which sucks because I think the majority of the students didn't like the fact that in order to graduate, not only do you have to do your classes, but you also have to do these stupid "cultural credits".

Dictionaries disagree. The English translation for "Ehrenamt" and "Freiwilligendienst" is "Volunteer Service" in either case, even though there is a difference.

Ahh but dictionarys are just books huh.

This whole thing reminds me of my 2.5 years at my undergrad college. They had this thing called "cultural credits" and you had to complete a certain amount before you can graduate. These include going to lectures, watching videos, etc. .

I understand the motive on the University's part but I have several objections.

1) What is "well rounded"? Does it mean merely exposed to a range of things the University wants kids exposed to? Who sets the range? Where are the bounds? Does a summer working in a car wash count for more than a few evenings reading books to deaf children?*

2) If someone is going to define well rounded, why in god's name should it be a university? I know professors who are among the least rounded people in the world.

3) Because of that, it seems to me the end product isn't well rounded-ness at all, it's more like experienced (at least a little) in those facets of life the University thinks are good to have. Being forced to nail in two by fours for Habitat for Humanity makes college kids better? In what way? If they did the exact same work for pay, for a contractor, why wouldn't it count? It seems to me the University is valuing the context over the actual experience. Unless, of course, the automatically assume that single mothers and students in the National Guard have done all the extra work and gathered all the life experience one can ask of them, already. (Goes triple for single mothers in the National Guard.) So what are they really after? Is it really well rounded students, in which case ANY route to that goal should be equally acceptable? Or is it more like socially conscious faculty have dreamed up a new way to provide involuntary labor for their pet causes?


*yes, I know. I was being cute.

I do not agree with compulsory volunteer work - people should not be compelled to do what amounts to paying for the privilege to work for whatever 'charitable cause' the school administration wants to push.

General education requirements on the other hand (the American term for having to take classes in every subject area), are very beneficial. I griped about it in college just like everyone else, until after a couple years I transferred to a university in New Zealand. I was truly astonished by the gross ignorance of supposedly 'educated' people.

If all you want is education specific to whatever focus you have, go to a vocational school. There you can gain focused education specifically narrowed to whatever job you are studying for. If, on the other hand, you are looking to become an educated person, you need to attend a university where you will be exposed to a wide variety of subjects.

To be truly educated, a man must not only know a great deal about one subject, but at least a little about every subject.

If you're talking about General Studies before you get to your specific area of study, then once again I'd have to say no. Of course in the states, the only reason they do this is that they want us to be a "well rounded" person. I'm sorry but I'm not going to college to be a well rounded person, I'm going to college to learn how to do a job that requires more than a High School Diploma.


Well, yeah that's kind of the point. If you wanted to, they wouldn't have to make you.

I do not agree with compulsory volunteer work - people should not be compelled to do what amounts to paying for the privilege to work for whatever 'charitable cause' the school administration wants to push.

General education requirements on the other hand (the American term for having to take classes in every subject area), are very beneficial. I griped about it in college just like everyone else, until after a couple years I transferred to a university in New Zealand. I was truly astonished by the gross ignorance of supposedly 'educated' people.

If all you want is education specific to whatever focus you have, go to a vocational school. There you can gain focused education specifically narrowed to whatever job you are studying for. If, on the other hand, you are looking to become an educated person, you need to attend a university where you will be exposed to a wide variety of subjects.

To be truly educated, a man must not only know a great deal about one subject, but at least a little about every subject.

Yea, I'm going to be honest with you and just tell you that I've forgotten everything that I was taught in the General Education courses, and I'm guessing I'm not the only one either.

I know a contradiction in terms. An oxymoron if you will.

An Australian university has proposed that from 2010 as part of their degree it will become compulsory for all students to undertake volunteer work.

Link: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,23652148-2702,00.html

Basically students will be given the opportunity to join Australia Volunteers International which will see them working in places in Australia, the South Pacific and Southeast Asia.

Another aspect of this new curriculum to cover all degrees is that students must do subjects from each of the three main areas Arts, Social Sciences and sciences.

While I can see some merit I don't think Universities should be allowed to force students to do volunteer work. Especially when you have to join one organisation that may see you sent off overseas for a period of time, students do have lives outside of Uni including work that provides much needed money for living expenses, it may also be difficult for students to get the needed time off work. In regards to having to join this particular program, I would like to know why a student couldn't organise their own volunteer work, I was a member of the State Emergency Service, which did provide valuable help to distressed people in need.

In regards to having to do subjects from extra areas, again I don't think they should forcve them to them do this, I see the merit and I studied subjects provided by different schools and faculties and was able to broaden my knowledge.

So what do you think?
Should universities be able to force their students to do volunteer work?
Should universities be able to make the students do subjects outside of their area?

The article also makes reference to Melbourne University which has implemented a system that is similar to the US system where students do a general degree on anything before going into specialised study. I am glad I never had to do this, it just seems like a waste of a year.

Our public school district has a policy that makes a set number of volunteer work hours mandatory in order for children to graduate from high school.

Mandatory volunteer labor sounds like slavery to me.

I know a contradiction in terms. An oxymoron if you will.

An Australian university has proposed that from 2010 as part of their degree it will become compulsory for all students to undertake volunteer work.

Link: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,23652148-2702,00.html

Basically students will be given the opportunity to join Australia Volunteers International which will see them working in places in Australia, the South Pacific and Southeast Asia.

Another aspect of this new curriculum to cover all degrees is that students must do subjects from each of the three main areas Arts, Social Sciences and sciences.

While I can see some merit I don't think Universities should be allowed to force students to do volunteer work. Especially when you have to join one organisation that may see you sent off overseas for a period of time, students do have lives outside of Uni including work that provides much needed money for living expenses, it may also be difficult for students to get the needed time off work. In regards to having to join this particular program, I would like to know why a student couldn't organise their own volunteer work, I was a member of the State Emergency Service, which did provide valuable help to distressed people in need.

In regards to having to do subjects from extra areas, again I don't think they should forcve them to them do this, I see the merit and I studied subjects provided by different schools and faculties and was able to broaden my knowledge.

So what do you think?
Should universities be able to force their students to do volunteer work?
Should universities be able to make the students do subjects outside of their area?

The article also makes reference to Melbourne University which has implemented a system that is similar to the US system where students do a general degree on anything before going into specialised study. I am glad I never had to do this, it just seems like a waste of a year.

My husband's company requires managers and above to do a certain number of community service hours in a month to get raises and bonuses (well, it's not the only requirement but it's factored in). I can't decide if I hate that or not. He does more than he is asked to anyway, and volunteers on his own time because he does, so it doesn't affect us really, but the idea of it irks me.

Our public school district has a policy that makes a set number of volunteer work hours mandatory in order for children to graduate from high school.

Mandatory volunteer labor sounds like slavery to me.

The school probably also makes all students sit in some kind of hall at some kind of desk taking some kind of test AND IF THEY REFUSE? They don't graduate!

Sounds like slavery to me.

The school probably also makes all students sit in some kind of hall at some kind of desk taking some kind of test AND IF THEY REFUSE? They don't graduate!

Sounds like slavery to me.

No, that's mind control.

The school probably also makes all students sit in some kind of hall at some kind of desk taking some kind of test AND IF THEY REFUSE? They don't graduate!

Sounds like slavery to me.

Please, taking test, studying, and going to class is part of going to college. Forced "Volunteer" work isn't.

There's plenty to commend a broader education.
No English teacher is going to ever use C programming again and I am never going to use what I learned in Art History so tell me why again each of us has to take those classes?

No English teacher is going to ever use C programming again and I am never going to use what I learned in Art History so tell me why again each of us has to take those classes?

Philosophy majors and artists need paying jobs, too...

Please, taking test, studying, and going to class is part of going to college. Forced "Volunteer" work isn't.

Well, what's part of going to college is simply what's part of going to college so making volunteer work part of going to college makes volunteer work part of going to college :)

No English teacher is going to ever use C programming again and I am never going to use what I learned in Art History so tell me why again each of us has to take those classes?

You don't necessarily need to take those specific classes. That said, there are advantages to taking them. Firstly, knowledge is valuable in itself. Secondly, the assumption that the skills learnt in those classes won't be used again might not be a correct one.

Yea, I'm going to be honest with you and just tell you that I've forgotten everything that I was taught in the General Education courses, and I'm guessing I'm not the only one either.
You may not remember the actual data, but it affects the way you think about things, how you process information, and you retain far more understanding than you realize. What you learned may not be easy to recall, but it has helped shape your mind.

Personally, I am tempted to say everyone should be required (at gun point) to study economics for a couple years - if even one person out of every 10 retains enough basic sense to no longer fall for complete BS propagated by politicians and activists, it will be worth it.

I do think that *some* knowledge of the other fields can be quite useful. Maybe not in their chosen profession, but in life. Know something about others. Don't have an expert on French poetry be completely ignorant about the scientific method. Do not have the mathematician respond with "say what?" when one mentions Spinoza. That sort of thing.

Would help immensely in the whole evolution debate ;)

There's plenty to commend a broader education.

Sorry I wrote don't instead of do, I apologise I did many subjects outside of my main area because I wanted to expand my knowledge, and have a broader view on other things in life rather simply studying economic courses all the time.

I have also done volunteer work during my time in a number of areas, I don't think it should be forced upon us. Smunkeeville, I think that your husbands company is quite poor to say you must do volunteer work outside of work hours, I would certainly hope that I was being paid more for doing it.

Compulsory volunteer work I think is a fundamental bad idea, especially if you force them to sign up with a specific agency. Not only do you have the issue of some students not being able to afford the time due to work load or part-time work (so they can pay their way), but the volunteers will, as a rule, be resentful and unmotivated which is overall detrimental.

University students are already significantly more likely to volunteer than other social groups, and getting more volunteers is probably best managed through incentive schemes and support from the university on the organisation. I know our university offers the York Award of which a significant part relates to volunteer work and it is considered to be a good thing to have on your CV.

Compulsory volunteer work I think is a fundamental bad idea, especially if you force them to sign up with a specific agency. Not only do you have the issue of some students not being able to afford the time due to work load or part-time work (so they can pay their way), but the volunteers will, as a rule, be resentful and unmotivated which is overall detrimental.If the university doesn't incorporate the time needed into the curriculum, then it's doing something wrong. Other than that, the last part seems off. There was one other volunteer working with me when I did it, and the rest were all full employees. And that was rather rare among the rest of the people that were in the same group of volunteers I was in. Besides which, volunteering is often limited. You can do one year total in Germany, for instance.
University students are already significantly more likely to volunteer than other social groups, and getting more volunteers is probably best managed through incentive schemes and support from the university on the organisation. I know our university offers the York Award of which a significant part relates to volunteer work and it is considered to be a good thing to have on your CV.I think you're confusing volunteer work and volunteer work.

Too many people here are completely missing the point. I suggest you all read up on what Australian Volunteers International (http://www.australianvolunteers.com/) actually does.