NationStates Jolt Archive

What i'd like to know NSG is:
Do you think this will offer a chance to sort out internal issues, or will things become even worse than before for the people of Burma?
Horrific scenes

State media reported on Tuesday that 22,464 people had now been confirmed as dead and another 41,054 people missing as a result of the cyclone.
Burma is under the spotlight now.

A little extra information:
Hurricane Katrina, US, 2005 - at least 1,836 dead
Orissa Cyclone, 1999, Northern India - at least 10,000 dead
Hurricane Mitch, 1998, Central America - at least 11,000 dead
Typhoon Thelma, 1991, Philippines - 6,000 dead
Bangladesh cyclone, 1991 - about 138,000 dead
Bhola cyclone, 1970 - at least 300,000 dead

Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_cyclone)
The effects of cyclones.
While tropical cyclones can produce extremely powerful winds and torrential rain, they are also able to produce high waves and damaging storm surge. They develop over large bodies of warm water, and lose their strength if they move over land. This is the reason coastal regions can receive significant damage from a tropical cyclone, while inland regions are relatively safe from receiving strong winds. Heavy rains, however, can produce significant flooding inland, and storm surges can produce extensive coastal flooding up to 40 kilometres (25 mi) from the coastline. Although their effects on human populations can be devastating, tropical cyclones can also relieve drought conditions. They also carry heat and energy away from the tropics and transport it towards temperate latitudes, which makes them an important part of the global atmospheric circulation mechanism. As a result, tropical cyclones help to maintain equilibrium in the Earth's troposphere, and to maintain a relatively stable and warm temperature worldwide.


Another update: Linky (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7387331.stm)
Foreign aid is beginning to arrive in Burma, devastated by a cyclone that left more than 22,000 people dead.
Neighbouring countries and the UN have dispatched planes carrying supplies - amid complaints that ruling generals are hampering the foreign aid effort.
The UN has urged the authorities to let foreign aid workers into Burma. A UN assessment team is due to fly in on Thursday followed by a funds appeal.
A vast swathe of the southern Irrawaddy delta remains under water.
Reports from the area - which bore the full force of the cyclone - speak of traumatised survivors emerging from floodwaters littered with bodies.
Survivors are hungry, thirsty and vulnerable to disease - but given the vast area affected, and blocked roads, the challenge for aid workers is enormous, say reports.
and just in case anyone is in doubt of the scale of death.
In Bogalay, the bodies of people killed by the storm "drifted into the sea with the tide, and are now resurfacing on the shore," a survivor who has been travelling in the region told the BBC's Burmese service.
"The storm was followed by tidal waves and ships are marooned. You can see the boats near the main market. Ninety percent of Bogalay town is destroyed."



News link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7385662.stm)
The death toll from Burma's devastating cyclone has now risen to more than 22,000, state media have said.
Another 41,000 are missing three days after Cyclone Nargis hit the country, causing a huge tidal surge to sweep inland, according to state radio.
The report came as aid agencies begin what they expect to be a major relief operation to help hundreds of thousands left without clean water and shelter.
Burma's government has been criticised over its handling of the crisis.
A number of Burmese nationals and some foreigners have said they had not been properly warned by the country's military leaders about the approaching storm.
Some witnesses have also said the government's response to the disaster has so far been slow and inadequate.
US President George W Bush has urged the military leadership to open up to American aid, saying his country was ready to use its navy "to help find the missing, to help stabilise the situation".
"But in order to do so, the military junta must allow our disaster assessment teams into the country," he said.

Cyclone should of been seen coming days or weeks in advance.

I'm bemused that the figure has jumped from ~350 to 10,000 now...

10,000 lost / Lots of rubble / At least they died / Without stubble / Burma Shave

Do you think this will offer a chance to sort out internal issues, or will things become even worse than before for the people of Burma?

It's hard to see how this will change anything for the better. It's far more likely that even the empty gestures towards democracy will be 'postponed' in light of it.

I doubt this will change anything. At all.

Cyclone should of been seen coming days or weeks in advance.
you know this how?
I'm bemused that the figure has jumped from ~350 to 10,000 now...
yeah, same here i think the government realised the extent of the storm later
10,000 lost / Lots of rubble / At least they died / Without stubble / Burma Shave
???
It's hard to see how this will change anything for the better. It's far more likely that even the empty gestures towards democracy will be 'postponed' in light of it.
what empty gestures would this be?
I haven't seen any gestures.
I doubt this will change anything. At all.

absolutely nothing will change even though many people have lost their homes and jobs and lives? really?

absolutely nothing will change even though many people have lost their homes and jobs and lives? really?
Politically, nothing will change.

what empty gestures would this be?
I haven't seen any gestures.

There was due to be a vote on a new constitution.

Politically, nothing will change.
what?
do you mean in the Western hemisphere, or in Burma itself?
hmm i suppse i can see what you mean, but isn't that a fateful way of looking at it?
There was due to be a vote on a new constitution.
In Burma?
oh and was it avoided by the Government?
oh wait i recall some rally marches in London, and a few marches in Burma, then the government cracked the whip and the protesters went scurrying away.

Isn't Burma oppressing its people and "secretly" building a new capital?

... And surely a Cyclone would of been noticed long before it hit with modern all this modern technology.

Isn't Burma oppressing its people and "secretly" building a new capital?

... And surely a Cyclone would of been noticed long before it hit with modern all this modern technology.

Building a new capital?

Warnings and watches are two levels of alert issued by national weather forecasting bodies to coastal areas threatened by the imminent approach of a tropical cyclone of tropical storm or hurricane intensity. They are notices to the local population and civil authorities to make appropriate preparation for the cyclone, including evacuation of vulnerable areas where necessary. It is important that interests throughout the area of an alert make preparations to protect life and property, and do not disregard it on the strength of the detailed forecast track. Tropical cyclones are not points, and forecasting their track remains an uncertain science.
I think this is the explanation as to why it wasn't forecasted until too late.

what?
do you mean in the Western hemisphere, or in Burma itself?
Both. Fuck all changes in Bangladesh when ten times as many people periodically drown, and their government is far less entrenched and well armed.
hmm i suppse i can see what you mean, but isn't that a fateful way of looking at it?
Of course it is.

In Burma?
oh and was it avoided by the Government?
oh wait i recall some rally marches in London, and a few marches in Burma, then the government cracked the whip and the protesters went scurrying away.
If by cracked the whip and scurrying away, you mean hundreds killed by the Burmese army, thousands arrested and thousands more fleeing over the border into Thailand, then yes you're correct.

Building a new capital?
yup. Somewhere in the middle of the forest miles away from anywhere. A whole new city just for the Burmese ruling elite.

Nothing will change in Burma as long as the Chinese govt continues to support the junta in charge there. Only reason why they stopped killing protesters and monks was because China finally stepped and told them to. Burma has lots of natural resources which China wants, in case you're wondering why they'd support a repressive dictatorship.

If by cracked the whip and scurrying away, you mean hundreds killed by the Burmese army, thousands arrested and thousands more fleeing over the border into Thailand, then yes you're correct.


yup. Somewhere in the middle of the forest miles away from anywhere. A whole new city just for the Burmese ruling elite.

Nothing will change in Burma as long as the Chinese govt continues to support the junta in charge there. Only reason why they stopped killing protesters and monks was because China finally stepped and told them to. Burma has lots of natural resources which China wants, in case you're wondering why they'd support a repressive dictatorship.

its not just China Chevron has a oil pipeline there. We have only banned new investments not investments that were already in place.

Death toll now 22,000..another 40,000 still missing (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7385662.stm)

The cynic in me begins to wonder how many of these deaths have been fabricated to try and illicit more money from the international community...

???

Reference to an ancient American ad campaign for shaving cream (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burma-Shave#Roadside_billboards). What makes it funny is that the product was called Burma Shave, and they'd advertise with little roadside signs that formed a funny rhyme ending with Burma Shave on the last sign. Thus the little poem is hilarious in context. Well to anyone old enough or pop culture aware enough to get the joke.


It still boggles the mind that they couldn't evacuate so many people that they have 22,000 dead. Sweet zombie Jesus..

Nothing will change in Burma as long as the Chinese govt continues to support the junta in charge there. Only reason why they stopped killing protesters and monks was because China finally stepped and told them to. Burma has lots of natural resources which China wants, in case you're wondering why they'd support a repressive dictatorship.

Conveniently missing out the investments of India, the "largest democracy" in the world. Other Western countries (e.g. France, which is harping loudly about human rights in Tibet) also have investments in Burma.

It's wrong when autocracies support autocracies but it's okay, or okay to ignore it when democracies support autocracies.

you know this how?

A cyclone is a hurricane, we see them coming when they're just clumps of clouds off Africa. Do satellites not work in Burma?

Don't worry, we're apparently sending them $250,000 worth of supplies :rolleyes:

A cyclone is a hurricane, we see them coming when they're just clumps of clouds off Africa. Do satellites not work in Burma?

for some reason I Doubt Burma Listens such warnings.

though it makes Katrina look like peanuts.

Don't worry, we're apparently sending them $250,000 worth of supplies :rolleyes:

That's pathetic.

That's pathetic.

It's pathetic because the military rulers of Myanmar don't want any outside help.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5gOG5dudJZ8KuhaLyk3XUJZMO9Dyg

Everyone wants to send aid, and Myanmar's rulers want people to apply for visas.

But with large parts of Myanmar under water, buildings destroyed, crops ruined and survivors homeless, the country's Social Welfare Minister, Maung Maung Swe, gave no hint Tuesday that entry restrictions would be lifted for outside agencies.

"For expert teams to come here, they have to negotiate with the foreign ministry and our senior authorities," she told a news conference in Yangon.

In Washington, US President George W. Bush said: "Our message is to the military rulers: 'Let the United States come to help you, help the people.'"

"We want to do a lot more," he said. "We're prepared to move US Navy assets to help find those who've lost their lives, to help find the missing, to help stabilize the situation.

"But in order to do so, the military junta must allow our disaster assessment teams into the country."

White House spokeswoman Dana Perino announced an extra three million dollars in US aid for the disaster, bringing the total to 3.25 million dollars (two million euros).

She said a Disaster Aid Response Team was ready to go into Myanmar and that two US Navy ships -- already nearby for a disaster relief exercise and loaded with water and other key aid staples -- were steaming towards Myanmar, but that a request for visas had met no response.

The European Union released two million euros in initial emergency aid, and its Slovenian presidency said "every effort must be made to make sure that assistance is delivered directly to the people most affected by disaster."

"The EU hopes that, in the interest of the population suffering from the emergency, the authorities will make every effort to cooperate with the international relief organizations," it added in a statement.

The top UN humanitarian official, Under-Secretary General John Holmes, said the organization was ready to allocate a "significant" amount from the Central Emergency Response Fund to assist the relief effort.

In Geneva, the United Nations' Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs said it had a five-member disaster assessment team in neighboring Thailand still awaiting entry visas.

"We expect them to be dispatched in the next hours," said spokeswoman Elisabeth Byrs.

The UN children's fund (UNICEF) and the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies said they are also waiting for visas to help distribute supplies such as tents, water purification tablets and mosquito nets.

Australia stressed it was "ready, willing and able" to help, but Foreign Minister Stephen Smith said: "We hope that the regime will allow the independent agencies in to do the usual examinations to work out the most effective way of supplying that aid."

New Zealand's Prime Minister Helen Clarke said her country's help would not be distributed through the military regime in Myanmar, but via the UN.

"We really have minimal relations with the government in Myanmar but we can't stand by and see people affected by this tragedy left helpless," she told Radio New Zealand.

Meanwhile, individual offers of help from around the globe have continued to flood in.

Britain said it was providing five million pounds (10 million dollars) in immediate aid, to be channelled via the United Nations and various charities.

Greece pledged 200,000 dollars, and promised to send a plane bearing medicine and supplies as soon as Myanmar's airports reopened after the disaster. Spain offered an initial 500,000 euros.

China said it would send one million dollars in emergency aid in batches, some of it in cash, to help reconstruction.

Immediate neighbor Thailand airlifted more than 400,000 dollars' worth of food, drinking water and medical supplies, while Indonesia said it would provide aid worth one million dollars.

Japan offered 28 million yen (270,000 dollars) in emergency aid including tents, electric power generators and other emergency goods.

And Singapore, which has close ties to Myanmar, pledged 200,000 US dollars in aid. South Korea announced it would provide emergency materials worth 100,000 dollars.

Sweden said it would provide 15 million kronor (2.5 million dollars) in emergency aid.

Demented Hamsters if by cracked the whip and scurrying away, you mean hundreds killed by the Burmese army, thousands arrested and thousands more fleeing over the border into Thailand, then yes you're correct.
Yes that's what i meant, i think i used the wrong words to describe it though.


yup. Somewhere in the middle of the forest miles away from anywhere. A whole new city just for the Burmese ruling elite.

Nothing will change in Burma as long as the Chinese govt continues to support the junta in charge there. Only reason why they stopped killing protesters and monks was because China finally stepped and told them to. Burma has lots of natural resources which China wants, in case you're wondering why they'd support a repressive dictatorship.
ah, that's a shame. I'm sure there's many other countries with the same dilemma as Burma.

The cynic in me begins to wonder how many of these deaths have been fabricated to try and illicit more money from the international community...
hmmmm, nah take a look for yourself (http://images.google.co.uk/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4DVXA_en___GB238&q=images%20of%20burma%20cyclone%20damage&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi) if you don't believe it.
although that might happen, with a natural event as big as a cyclone it's probably difficult to overestimate the damage they can cause.

Conveniently missing out the investments of India, the "largest democracy" in the world. Other Western countries (e.g. France, which is harping loudly about human rights in Tibet) also have investments in Burma.

It's wrong when autocracies support autocracies but it's okay, or okay to ignore it when democracies support autocracies.

You catch on quick young Jedi. The force is strong in you.

You catch on quick young Jedi. The force is strong in you.

Ready the slay the Darth Vader that is Western Xenophobia, Bias, and Misrepresentation. :mp5:

Ready the slay the Darth Vader that is Western Xenophobia, Bias, and Misrepresentation. :mp5:
And replace it, twould appear with Chinese xenophobia, name-calling, generalisations and outright lies.
excellent.

And replace it, twould appear with Chinese xenophobia, name-calling, generalisations and outright lies.
excellent.

Ja! One can play the game both ways.:D

I doubt this will change anything. At all.

wtf do you mean? HURRR CYCLONE! HURR REVOLUTION! :rolleyes:

wtf do you mean? HURRR CYCLONE! HURR REVOLUTION! :rolleyes:

???
care to explain.
oh and aid is now entering Burma, for those who want to know.
I was curious as to what folks here thought might happen, the general consensus is nothing. Personally i think there will be changes, and yes political ones.

???
care to explain.
oh and aid is now entering Burma, for those who want to know.
I was curious as to what folks here thought might happen, the general consensus is nothing. Personally i think there will be changes, and yes political ones.

How will the Cyclone change anything politically then? This is what I don't understand, for all the bad things about the Burmese government, taking Pot shots at them when thousands have died in a natural disaster is opportunistic and in bad taste. Are you claiming the Burmese Junta have a secret weather controlling device or something?

It's hard to see how this will change anything for the better. It's far more likely that even the empty gestures towards democracy will be 'postponed' in light of it.

"In the interests of the people we must remain strong to resolve this crisis," will eventually be heard. Though come on, seriously, natural disasters don't always change a government.