NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm writing a book which has several gay characters. The quetion is, how far should I let them go (relationship wise). They range in age from 16-12/13.

Would gay characters affect your choice of book?

Any Other comments?

Don't forget to vote.

I'm writing a book which has several gay characters. The quetion is, how far should I let them go. They range in age from 16-12/13.

Would gay characters affect your choice of book?

Any Other comments?How far should you let them go where?

Other comments: Dumbledore. Best gay character ever. Mainly because it wasn't something that defined him at all.

Think about how far you would let heterosexual characters go and apply those limits to your gay characters.

Think about how far you would let heterosexual characters go and apply those limits to your gay characters.

ooooooooh, bad example

I'm writing a book which has several gay characters. The quetion is, how far should I let them go. They range in age from 16-12/13.

Depends on how well you can write. Far too many writers add some sexscenes to "spice things up" that contribute nothing whatsoever to the story (and are often dull to boot).

They should go as far as the plot needs them to go.

I've read a number of books with homosexual characters in them and it doesn't matter to me as long as their sexuality is either somehow important to the plot or the character (Vanyel for example). Otherwise, I don't as a reader need to know or care about it any more than I need to know or care about if the character is heterosexual. Dumbledore was a good handling IMO. It wasn't important to the plot of Harry Potter that he was gay, nor did it really matter for him at that time, so why mention it?

Depends on how well you can write. Far too many writers add some sexscenes to "spice things up" that contribute nothing whatsoever to the story (and are often dull to boot).
well mine end up being just another problem everyone involved regrets later.

I'm writing a book which has several gay characters. The quetion is, how far should I let them go (relationship wise). They range in age from 16-12/13.

Would gay characters affect your choice of book?

Any Other comments?

Depends on how far the hetero characters are going.

You don't have to look at the hetero characters' relationships as a separate issue to the gay characters' relationships - just think about how far you want the romantic relationhsips in your book to progress and how much of them you want to revela, regardless of the sexuality of the characters involved.

---

I'm not going to vote because there isn't an option which suits what I think.

I think "Have gay characters but not too graphic" is right for a book that doesn't need graphic sex scenes.

And I think "Write as much as possible and keep it graphic!" would be great for a book that works with graphic sex scenes.

It depends on the book.

ooooooooh, bad example

And why is that? Is there something inherently better or worse about homosexuals coming of age that makes using the hetero template a bad idea?

It seems to me that you should write what you know. The less you know about 12-16 year-old homosexuals, the less you should write about them, and vice versa, realizing that you have but what you know and what you've experienced upon which to draw.

And why is that? Is there something inherently better or worse about homosexuals coming of age that makes using the hetero template a bad idea?



Erm no, the straight characters are very promiscuous.

I find sex scenes in serious fiction to be in general off putting. For my dime I'd say let 'em have sex if it makes sense, but don't get into too much detail. Unless you intend it for one handed reading it's not necessary.

I find sex scenes in serious fiction to be in general off putting. For my dime I'd say let 'em have sex if it makes sense, but don't get into too much detail. Unless you intend it for one handed reading it's not necessary.

lol!

Well, smut sells.

I didn't vote because there really wasn't an option I felt defined my answer.

When you're writing, take it as far as you need to to tell the story or present the ideas you're going for. Any further and it's gratuitous, any less and it loses something.

For example, I write a lot myself and in one story I had charcters who were marooned in a crashes starship. Two of them paired off and slept together. I described it in high detail. I wouldn't say it was enough detail to be obscene but I left little to the imagination. Later I decided that I'd gone too far even then, not because it was inapropriate material, but because it failed to contribute to the story or define the characters any better.

But in another story, I had a character who allowed her body to be used to pay for drugs for her addict father. In that case I left out too much detail, because the point of the story was to show just how desperate and degraded this character was, so that later in the story her redemption and ascension to greatness would be all the more powerful.

So the answer is: What are you trying to say in your story, and how much detail do you need to say it? Go from there. The fact that your characters are gay is irrelevant.

As much as the story calls for. If it's important that your gay characters are in love then a sex scene might serve a purpose. If it's just an incidental thing(like gay Dumbledore) then you might not need to mention it at all.

Erm no, the straight characters are very promiscuous.

Uh...that's not a very good answer. Are you implying that gay people aren't promiscuous and that therefore your written gay characters shouldn't be? Honestly, I'm having a hard time understanding your reticence merely because your straight characters are who they are. The gay characters should be the same -- libido doesn't care how it's sated.

I'm writing a book which has several gay characters. The quetion is, how far should I let them go (relationship wise). They range in age from 16-12/13.

Would gay characters affect your choice of book?

Any Other comments?

Don't forget to vote.

Let the plot and the story drive you.

*snip the relevant examples*

So the answer is: What are you trying to say in your story, and how much detail do you need to say it? Go from there. The fact that your characters are gay is irrelevant.

^ This.

I chose "Have gay characters but not too graphic" strictly because of the age range you presented. I have no interest in reading anything "graphic" about 12/13-year-olds, gay, straight or communist.

I find sex scenes in serious fiction to be in general off putting. For my dime I'd say let 'em have sex if it makes sense, but don't get into too much detail. Unless you intend it for one handed reading it's not necessary.

As someone who's fond of teh pr0n (especially slash), I have to agree. There's something jarring about explicit sex in serious fiction. Then again, that could be because 1) it's so taboo still, or 2) it isn't written well. The Time Traveler's Wife is one notable exception that comes to mind.

Let the plot and the story drive you.

Or this. /\

I chose "Have gay characters but not too graphic" strictly because of the age range you presented. I have no interest in reading anything "graphic" about 12/13-year-olds, gay, straight or communist.



As someone who's fond of teh pr0n (especially slash), I have to agree. There's something jarring about explicit sex in serious fiction. Then again, that could be because 1) it's so taboo still, or 2) it isn't written well. The Time Traveler's Wife is one notable exception that comes to mind.

Absolutely outSTANDing book. I wept openly while reading it. Audrey Niffenegger is an excellent writer.

I'm writing a book which has several gay characters. The quetion is, how far should I let them go (relationship wise). They range in age from 16-12/13.
As others have said, you should do what the story requires.

And just what do you mean by "how far should I let them go"? Are you talking about how much sex your characters should have, or how much detail you should use in describing their sex? Two different things. Both dependent on the needs of the story, but the latter also depends on publishing requirements. A lot of countries have strict rules about descriptions of children in sexual situations. You can't write Victorian porn anymore. You might want to check out the Burke detective novels by Andrew Vachss -- I believe some of them deal with crimes and exploitation against children, though I'm not sure which ones. In any event, already published books that deal with similar issues would be a good guide to how far YOU can go, which matters more than how far your characters go.

Would gay characters affect your choice of book?
No.

Any Other comments?
Only that it bothers me in a vague way that you posed this question at all.

Don't forget to vote.
I didn't forget. I didn't vote on purpose.

12-16 year homosexuals tend to be in the closet so I don't know what your planning on doing with this book myself? I say just do whatever skins did (only without the absolutely retarded fashion sense)

is it just me or is everyone writing a book these days?

12-16 year homosexuals tend to be in the closet so I don't know what your planning on doing with this book myself? I say just do whatever skins did (only without the absolutely retarded fashion sense)

is it just me or is everyone writing a book these days?
Everyone is always writing a book. People who say they aren't, just haven't started yet. We can blame Gutenburg for opening that can of worms.

Honestly, no matter what kind of sex it is, it should contribute something meaningful to the story other than an orgasm for the characters and possibly the reader...unless that's the kind of story you're writing. If you feel the plot calls for it at a given moment, go for it and use it, but don't turn it into your way of making things feel more "real"

Gay or straight, I don't want to read about graphic sex between minors. Implied is fine, if neccessary to the plot. It irritates me when relationships or sex are just randomly thrown into stories for no reason.

Everyone is always writing a book. People who say they aren't, just haven't started yet. We can blame Gutenberg for opening that can of worms.Fixed. ;)

Fixed. ;)
Thanks. I always get that wrong. One of those fixed notions...

Everyone is always writing a book. People who say they aren't, just haven't started yet. We can blame Gutenburg for opening that can of worms.

I'm not writing a book! I tried once years ago and it was shit so I stopped. :)

I'm not writing a book! I tried once years ago and it was shit so I stopped. :)
You're just taking a break, trust me. ;)

I'm not writing a book! I tried once years ago and it was shit so I stopped. :)Me neither. I'm drawing one. =P

You're just taking a break, trust me. ;)

The hell I am, I forget the password I need to read it.


At least, I don't think I deleted it........

12-16 year homosexuals tend to be in the closet so I don't know what your planning on doing with this book myself? I say just do whatever skins did (only without the absolutely retarded fashion sense)

is it just me or is everyone writing a book these days?

I lost my virginity to a guy at 14, in a hick town in Indiana. It's doable.

If your trying to make it a point about homosexuality, let it go as far as you need to to make a point.

Otherwise, as far as you see fit. Its your baby after all.


Or, have a whole chapter on a super graphic gay orgey and then have your prudest conservative friends "proof read" it for you.:p

Or, have a whole chapter on a super graphic gay orgey and then have your prudest conservative friends "proof read" it for you.:p

Do this anyway. Hell, just write the chapter independent of the book.

The problem I'm seeing is this person doesn't know how to handle gay characters, and no, I don't think my idea was a bad one and here's why:

I write with gay characters all the time, and the only difference between them and hetero characters is their sexual preferences. There is no reason to think that there is a reason to treat them differently.

Pure business point of view:
If your target audience is male hetero and your primary goal is to sell the book, then limiting gay sex content to female charcaters might be a good idea.

The problem I'm seeing is this person doesn't know how to handle gay characters, and no, I don't think my idea was a bad one and here's why:

I write with gay characters all the time, and the only difference between them and hetero characters is their sexual preferences. There is no reason to think that there is a reason to treat them differently.I think it's a bad idea because I've seen a background synopsis of another or this story of his. Preciousl little research and plenty of personal bias and Mary Sueisms.

I think it's a bad idea because I've seen a background synopsis of another or this story of his. Preciousl little research and plenty of personal bias and Mary Sueisms.

Sounds like he needs to read TV Tropes (http://www.tvtropes.org) and improve.

The quetion is, how far should I let them go (relationship wise).

What a silly question. We're not aliens, you know...

What a silly question. We're not aliens, you know...

:eek: You're not?!? :eek:

What a silly question. We're not aliens, you know...Which is precisely what an alien would say...

I'm writing a book which has several gay characters. The quetion is, how far should I let them go (relationship wise). They range in age from 16-12/13.

Would gay characters affect your choice of book?

Any Other comments?

Don't forget to vote.

Whatever is appropriate for the tone of your book. If graphic sex is featured elsewhere in it, go there with gay couples. If the most anyone else in the book does is a bit of kissing, you may want to make that your limit for same-sex pairings as well.

And gay characters do affect my choice of book-- I'm always glad to pick up a novel that positively portrays male/male or female/female couples.

Well, smut sells.

Please, please, PLEASE don't write for money!!!!! :headbang: That's where all these hideous, annoying, and absolutly infuriating books come from, people just spiting them out to make a buck. If you want to write, PLEASE write from your heart! You'd be amazed how great the book will be, and you'll find that the problem at the root of this thread will magically disappear. Writing from you're heart pretty much assures that you'll bring this relationship to the exact point that it needs to be. If you're still worried about how far you bring it, wether or not it will offend anybody, just think about you're aduience, and how far you brought all your other charactures. Trust me, you won't offend any GLBTQI people (Gay Lesbian Bi- Trans- Questioning Intresexed) if you don't make your homosexuals more permeiscuous [sorry, I'm not very good at spelling, and I don't see a spell check] than your heterosexuals. If you're still worried, check out Nacy Garden's books as some examples. She's a lesbian Young Adult book writer, so her limit is a good ovrall limit (especially since you have her audience as your charature). If you still don't feel comfortable about it after that, maybe you shouldn't be the one to write a book on this subject (but if you were that far gone, this question would never have come up).

Please, please, PLEASE don't write for money!!!!! :headbang:

I write prove points. The point of this book is that William Golding was wrong. VERY wrong.

I will probably make it clear it has happened, but not go into detail. I'm also going to scrap the graphic sex scenes, as the stuff either side of them developed the characters, the scenes themselves just creeped me out. (oh dear god I really am turning asexual!)

Oh, and "everyone's writing a book" is a quote from the oldest piece of Papyrus in the istanbul museum. Predating Gutenberg by a couple of 1000 years.:D

Depends on your genre. If it's romance or a story about coming of age, you don't need to get into detail.

If it's porn and meant to titillate, put in every gory detail.

Depends on your genre. If it's romance or a story about coming of age, you don't need to get into detail.

If it's porn and meant to titillate, put in every gory detail.

more first two (i'm sappy)

No, Write What you know

Wow, everyone really is writing a book.

How do you guys make the time?

Wow, everyone really is writing a book.

How do you guys make the time?

Don't revise for GCSEs while planning to flee to the Monastery at Woody Bay in Devon.

I'm writing a book which has several gay characters. The quetion is, how far should I let them go (relationship wise). They range in age from 16-12/13.

Would gay characters affect your choice of book?

Any Other comments?

Don't forget to vote.

All I know is that I wouldn't read your book, based purely on the fact that you have to ask NSG how far you should "let your gay characters go".

Ugh.

I'm writing a book which has several gay characters. The quetion is, how far should I let them go (relationship wise). They range in age from 16-12/13.

How far would you let them go if they were straight (or how far are you letting the straight characters go if that's applicable)? Once you've answered that, that's exactly how far you should let the gay characters go.

The fact that they are gay shouldn't concern how far they go. Given their ages, I'd limit references.

The fact that they are gay shouldn't concern how far they go. Given their ages, I'd limit references.

Ditto.

The fact that they are gay shouldn't concern how far they go. Given their ages, I'd limit references.

Ditto.

Let them go as far as you let the straight characters go. If your straight readers are interested in physiological details, assume your gay or bi readers are just as interested in their preferred flavour of the same.

Age has nothing to do with it. If you're writing about 15 year olds having sex, it doesn't matter if its gay or straight. Exactly the same consent issue.

How about "Have gay characters and have them do the things that straight characters do" as an option?

All I know is that I wouldn't read your book, based purely on the fact that you have to ask NSG how far you should "let your gay characters go".

Ugh.

Before Voltaire wrote Candide, do you know what he did?

He asked NSG General for advice.

Before Tevis wrote "The Hustler", before Dante wrote the Divine Comedy, before Lovecraft wrote The Rats in the Walls, they all checked here first.

Don't ask me to prove it, that would be gravedigging.

But do you know who eschewed the wise counsel of NSG before writing a book?

Ayn Rand.

Now, don't you feel silly?

:fluffle:

I'm writing a book which has several gay characters. The quetion is, how far should I let them go (relationship wise). They range in age from 16-12/13.

Would gay characters affect your choice of book?

Any Other comments?

Don't forget to vote.
They can be homosexual, but my suggestion is to NOT make the plot revolve around this unless it's crucial, like if it's a conflict story set in the 70s or something. Have it simply be a part of who they are, as heterosexuality usually is for heterosexual characters.

As for "how far" my suggestion would be no more than, again, what is required. Be tasteful. If you have sex, it's usually better to infer it, such as having two characters described as "passionately kissing" and then go to a new scene.

Don't feel constrained by my suggestions, mind, because they certainly don't apply universally. They are, however, usually good advice.

But do you know who eschewed the wise counsel of NSG before writing a book?

Ayn Rand.

Is this what she said, or off some blog? I demand proof!

Is this what she said, or off some blog? I demand proof!

I have anecdotal proof, the 15th best kind.

Ayn and I were sitting in Jocabia's 1978 Corvette Stingray, which I had borrowed from him under the pretext of delivering canned goods to orphans but in fact I planned on scoring with the withered form of the founding Objectivist, and when I was trying to read the condom label instructions in the dark, she asked who I got the 'vette from, and I took leave of my usual policy of disavowing any association with NSG general, and explained he was somebody I knew on nationstates, and she said "I would never, ever, solicit advice on character or plot from that forum. I logon there only to learn about religion from the innovative theological discourse that fills, nay, saturates that board."

Q.E.D.

I have anecdotal proof, the 15th best kind.

Silly! That was last year.

Anecdotal Proof is down to 18th this season. Overtaken by "there's a Pikachu named that" proof, "I'm a charity sponsor of your rehab unit" proof, and the "In Before the Godwin" proof.

I'm expecting it to lose another five (perhaps as much as eight) places next time around. There's a lot of talented young proofs on the way up!

Ayn and I were sitting in Jocabia's 1978 Corvette Stingray ...

Say no more, say no more!! That woman's all class. One of the muddy diamonds of NSG.
Nudgenudge. Sayn'more!

Silly! That was last year.

Anecdotal Proof is down to 18th this season. Overtaken by "there's a Pikachu named that" proof, "I'm a charity sponsor of your rehab unit" proof, and the "In Before the Godwin" proof.


I'm impressed that "The Bible talks about untimely death!" has made it up to 8th.

And my personal favorite, "Its something that you have to feel"...

And my personal favorite, "Its something that you have to feel"...
Guys always say that to me, but it never proves a goddamned thing.
:rolleyes:

Guys always say that to me, but it never proves a goddamned thing.
:rolleyes:

But they should keep trying anyway. One day, you'll just go "Ah! Now I get the point!"

Let it flow.

Let it flow.

Who?
What?
Where?
Why?
How?

But they should keep trying anyway. One day, you'll just go "Ah! Now I get the point!"

Get the what? :eek: ;)

If you actually want to write believable human characters, then I recommend you write your entire story out in exactly the way that comes naturally to you, and then once you are done you swap the genders and sexual orientations around at random. If you want a simplified method, just flip a coin for each character to see if they will be male or female, and then flip it again to see if they're gay or straight. No cheating.

I think it's a bad idea because I've seen a background synopsis of another or this story of his. Preciousl little research and plenty of personal bias and Mary Sueisms.

Okay, see, up till here I assumed the OP was gay, or at least spoke it fairly fluently. Now, I'm not saying that the OP's non-gayness is a reason not to write the book, but... well, maybe I am saying that.

Before Voltaire wrote Candide, do you know what he did?

He asked NSG General for advice.

Before Tevis wrote "The Hustler", before Dante wrote the Divine Comedy, before Lovecraft wrote The Rats in the Walls, they all checked here first.

Don't ask me to prove it, that would be gravedigging.

But do you know who eschewed the wise counsel of NSG before writing a book?

Ayn Rand.

Now, don't you feel silly?

Can I put you and Jocabia in a jar with holes in the lid and a little computer with wireless connection and some cheetos and keep you?

I'm writing a book which has several gay characters. The quetion is, how far should I let them go (relationship wise). They range in age from 16-12/13.

Would gay characters affect your choice of book?

Any Other comments?

Don't forget to vote.

I don't mind it if it's just part of their character and not part of the story.

yes, I've read books where some of the characters are gay, but they're not obnoxious about it. "Gossimar Axe" the main character is trying to rescue her lover. it's referenced and one of the other characters has an issue with it, but it's not obnoxious about it. the focus was kept (rescuing the damsel in distress) and not detracted by the fact that they were gay.

so I don't mind gay characters (alot of Mercedies Lackey's characters are Homosexuals.) but what will determine if I read your book/story is how it's written and the story.

hint: I HATE first person. ;)

Oh, and your poll... I really can't vote because...
How gay should books be?
Pretend it doesn't exist like Harry Potter's "Dumbledore was gay"? where it's a character trait but not mentioned because it doesn't matter to the story.
Only a few cloaked references (e.g. Lord of the Flies) and LotF was nicely done. so if you can pull that off, I won't mind.
Refer to it but not directly But only if done 1)tastefully and 2) either enhances the character or story.
Have gay references but only as a sub plot and if it furthers the story and not a "hey look, GAYS!"
Have gay characters but not too graphic and if it furthers the story and not a "hey look, GAYS!"
Write as much as possible and keep it graphic! and if it furthers the story and not a "hey look, GAYS!"
Lesbian references only and if it furthers the story and not a "hey look, GAYS!"
Gays? What are they then? this I won't vote for.