NationStates Jolt Archive

At their time the various mythological religions were just as believed in as christianity is now days, though not to the same extant we both shared the same strength in faith and as we as humans evolved so did our religions so I got to ask this: we are not finished evolving so religion is not finished either The modern day religions won't last forever so whats next? Do you think it will keep evolving forever or maybe religion itself will die one day? I don't know what do you think?

This is not a christian, islam, whatever religion you believe in bashing thread so please hold in the stupid "My god is the only god" comments, because thousands of years ago they were saying the same thing about Zues and all of the many other godly beings.

Anyone who said Zeus was the only god was clearly an idiot.

But yeah, I imagine some other ideas will get popular eventually. Just like new hairstyles. Except people take god more seriously.

What's notable about Christianity and Islam is precisely how syncretic they are, and how they adapt and mutate when they've come into contact with new cultures. How Catholicism adapted to the customs and traditions of the South American people's, for instance, and how they practice said religion, is an absolutely stunning case study, from an anthropological point of view. Western Christianity today is not what one would have expected, and the differences, even within continental Europe between the various forms of Christianity are significant and notable. Much the same with Islam, Southeast Asian Islam is hardly identical with Near Eastern Islam.

All the same, the core beliefs have survived for quite some time, and remain intact despite geographic variation. Oddly enough, one of the major reasons for this is the divergence between the various sects of each religion. In Christianity, the competing forces of Catholicism and Orthodoxy, with the semi-recent introduction of Protestant forms have likely served the purpose of preventing a single, unified change from the center in the core beliefs of the faith. Much the same can be said with Islam.

So, while these two faiths are immensely capable of change over time, changes that are quite obvious and distinct, they will likely retain their most central principles far more effectively and longer than their predecessors, and they will likely be aided in doing so by advances in communication and information technology.

Zues, Ahura Mazda now God whats next?what??
And the name is Zeus.

Anyone who said Zeus was the only god was clearly an idiot.As well as anyone who said that Yhvh was the only god.

what??
And the name is Zeus.

Minor transposition, it's not worth worrying yourself over.

I think that even now you are seeing a shift toward a more individualized belief systems, a bit of a "one god for every person" system. If you ask people nowadays, many will say that they are spiritual, or believe in their own way, not following fully a mainstream religion where they can create a dogma that fits with their personal beliefs.

I'd say any new religious change will take place because of enviromental change
(space and shit) leading to a change in how people view the world in the same sense that agricultural life leads to a pantheon view

well either that or are Zezu overlords from the planet Marvin will make themselves are Gods :)

Scientology!

that is what immediately popped into my head

Anyone who said Zeus was the only god was clearly an idiot.

But yeah, I imagine some other ideas will get popular eventually. Just like new hairstyles. Except people take god more seriously.


I find that people don't take God seriously at all, they take religion seriously. The two aren't the same.

There will always be religion - gods may come and go, but religion will be with us always.

I find that people don't take God seriously at all, they take religion seriously. The two aren't the same.

There will always be religion - gods may come and go, but religion will be with us always.

Fair enough

I think religions come and take a very long time to go. We haven't lived enough millenias (as a species) to establish a pattern of some sort, other than the fact that people will always believe what they want and hope to be saved instead of simply living their lives (and maybe try to save themselves).

I find that people don't take God seriously at all, they take religion seriously. The two aren't the same.Which god and which religion?

At their time the various mythological religions were just as believed in as christianity is now days, though not to the same extant we both shared the same strength in faith and as we as humans evolved so did our religions so I got to ask this: we are not finished evolving so religion is not finished either The modern day religions won't last forever so whats next? Do you think it will keep evolving forever or maybe religion itself will die one day? I don't know what do you think?

This is not a christian, islam, whatever religion you believe in bashing thread so please hold in the stupid "My god is the only god" comments, because thousands of years ago they were saying the same thing about Zues.

No they weren't. Before Christianity came along, most peoples believed that their neighbors' gods existed every bit as much as their own. To believe that your own god was the only god would have made as much sense as a child telling his friend Billy Johnson, "only my father is Daddy, that guy you live with is just mister Johnson."

Why our Friendly Alien Overlords form Xenthu of course! :p

No they weren't. Before Judaism came along, most peoples believed that their neighbors' gods existed every bit as much as their own. To believe that your own god was the only god would have made as much sense as a child telling his friend Billy Johnson, "only my father is Daddy, that guy you live with is just mister Johnson."

Fixed

Fixed

No, I think Domici was right.

Judaism is not an evangelical religion, and the ancient Jews did not try to convert anyone to Judaism or stamp out other religions -- only to stop Jews from practicing other religions. It is not clear whether they personally thought only their god existed for real, or whether they specified that their one god was the only god for Jews, so that Jews would have nothing to do with the gods of other people -- which is not the same as saying those other gods don't exist or aren't gods. Obviously, they thought their god was better than the other gods, but they were hardly unique in that.

It was Christianity that first actively sought an exclusive franchise on people's religious practice, and made a very big deal out of all other gods being total fictions that should be rejected -- i.e. their god is the only god.

Which god and which religion?

Any god/goddess/gods. Religion is a structure which uses deity as an excuse for existing.

No, I think Domici was right.

Judaism is not an evangelical religion, and the ancient Jews did not try to convert anyone to Judaism or stamp out other religions -- only to stop Jews from practicing other religions. It is not clear whether they personally thought only their god existed for real, or whether they specified that their one god was the only god for Jews, so that Jews would have nothing to do with the gods of other people -- which is not the same as saying those other gods don't exist or aren't gods. Obviously, they thought their god was better than the other gods, but they were hardly unique in that.

It was Christianity that first actively sought an exclusive franchise on people's religious practice, and made a very big deal out of all other gods being total fictions that should be rejected -- i.e. their god is the only god.

Possibly, although it was my understanding that chrisitianity got the there is only one god from judaism, admittedly my knowledge of judaism is incomplete, so I could very well be wrong.

Possibly, although it was my understanding that chrisitianity got the there is only one god from judaism, admittedly my knowledge of judaism is incomplete, so I could very well be wrong.

consider the commandment "thou shalt not have strange gods before me"

not "dont be thinking there are other gods, because there arent"

it changed somewhere along the line but true monotheism doesnt seem to be the original idea.

consider the commandment "thou shalt not have strange gods before me"

not "dont be thinking there are other gods, because there arent"

it changed somewhere along the line but true monotheism doesnt seem to be the original idea.

Fair enough...

Fixed

Even with Judaism people realized that other people had their own traditions and their own Gods. When God says "they have become like Us," he is not using the royal We.

That was just fallout from the Babylonian exile. And even then they never argued that other people should believe as they do.

Even with Judaism people realized that other people had their own traditions and their own Gods. When God says "they have become like Us," he is not using the royal We.

That was just fallout from the Babylonian exile. And even then they never argued that other people should believe as they do.

Yeah, Murya and Ash already corrected me...

It was Christianity that first actively sought an exclusive franchise on people's religious practice, and made a very big deal out of all other gods being total fictions that should be rejected -- i.e. their god is the only god.

Even early Christians didn't argue that the other gods didn't exist, they just said that they were'nt gods, but demons. Today that belief is largely considered somewhere between superstitious and racist, but it still persists. Pat Robertson claims that Hinduism is demon worship, and that Allah is an Arabian Moon Demon, not the Christian God.

On Bill Maher's Politically Incorrect, Kevin Smith was on the panel when his movie Dogma came out. There was a fundamentalist Christian on the panel who asked him if he was aware that there is a real demon named Loki (Matt Damon's character.) Loki does not appear in the Bible, he is the Norse trickster god. But even that relatively obscure character is still believed to be a real demon that non-Christians worshipped as a god.

if its scientology i'm going to scream.

There was a fundamentalist Christian on the panel who asked him if he was aware that there is a real demon named Loki (Matt Damon's character.) Loki does not appear in the Bible, he is the Norse trickster god. But even that relatively obscure character is still believed to be a real demon that non-Christians worshipped as a god.

Loki is open to interpretations, for the most part it seems that he was not worshipped as such.


Christianity's(grammer?) roots seem very open to other ideas. although they seem to assimilate other beliefs in an attempt to convert (April Fools was Pagan New Year i believe).


Hinduism is a reletively old and strong religion and i ndon't believe that Polytheism is through especially with the emergence of asia as the center of power(just wait...)

This is not a christian, islam, whatever religion you believe in bashing thread so please hold in the stupid "My god is the only god" comments, because thousands of years ago they were saying the same thing about Zues.

ah, greeks were polytheists...

Pat Robertson claims that Hinduism is demon worship, and that Allah is an Arabian Moon Demon, not the Christian God.
Abraham worshipped a moon demon?:eek:

As a Christian I believe there are 3 different things that can be worshipped:
Specific physical objects or persons. For example the sun, a cult leader or a saint.
Fictional characters. For example most mythical characters.
God, the highest being who has many different names.

The Bible uses so many different names for God I think it's pretty clear it doesn't matter what name you use. You can probably refer to the highest being as Brahman if you want to, it's not one of those mentioned the Bible but neither is the English word god. Worshiping God doesn't mean you got everything right though. Even many Christians have said and done things in God's name that I really don't think was God's will.

To be on topic, I see 2 potentials for becoming new big religions and don't like either of them...

A portion of the people with homemade personal faiths might get organized to get the benefits of community without having to subscribe to one of the shared faiths. Personally I think a "Believe whatever you want, either way we'll cheer on and support you"-club may be cozy but also pointless.

Some attempt at merging the big religions could get big in the age of globalization. This would be equal to an attempt at intentionally merging all cultures or all languages in my eyes: Monotone, boring and destined to break up into smaller pieces again.

Zod

ah, greeks were polytheists...

....

SPARTAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

....sorry...

*slips away into the darkness*

....

SPARTAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

....sorry...

*slips away into the darkness*

YAY!!! comic relief!!!!!! *jumps up and down clapping*

YAY!!! comic relief!!!!!! *jumps up and down clapping*

And what's the deal with Ovaltine? The jar is round...the mug is round...it should be called 'Round-tine'...Thank you! I'll be here all week...

And what's the deal with Ovaltine? The jar is round...the mug is round...it should be called 'Round-tine'...Thank you! I'll be here all week...

WTF is ovaltine?

No, I think Domici was right.

Judaism is not an evangelical religion, and the ancient Jews did not try to convert anyone to Judaism or stamp out other religions -- only to stop Jews from practicing other religions. It is not clear whether they personally thought only their god existed for real, or whether they specified that their one god was the only god for Jews, so that Jews would have nothing to do with the gods of other people -- which is not the same as saying those other gods don't exist or aren't gods. Obviously, they thought their god was better than the other gods, but they were hardly unique in that.

It was Christianity that first actively sought an exclusive franchise on people's religious practice, and made a very big deal out of all other gods being total fictions that should be rejected -- i.e. their god is the only god.

The Hebrews carried the ark of the covenant in front of their army and waged wars against non Hebrew tribes. The Persian King Darius III was an active follower of Ahura Mazda, and pushed this belief on conquered nations in 350 BC. Christians are definitely not the first people to try to push their beliefs on "non-believers".

P.S. The followers of Ahura Mazda are called Zoroastrians and, unlike Zeus, there are still people who practice Zoroastrianism to this day.

As well as anyone who said that Yhvh was the only god.

Actually, it is worse with Zeus since that was a polytheistic religion and all.. with many gods...

Even early Christians didn't argue that the other gods didn't exist, they just said that they were'nt gods, but demons. Today that belief is largely considered somewhere between superstitious and racist, but it still persists. Pat Robertson claims that Hinduism is demon worship, and that Allah is an Arabian Moon Demon, not the Christian God.

On Bill Maher's Politically Incorrect, Kevin Smith was on the panel when his movie Dogma came out. There was a fundamentalist Christian on the panel who asked him if he was aware that there is a real demon named Loki (Matt Damon's character.) Loki does not appear in the Bible, he is the Norse trickster god. But even that relatively obscure character is still believed to be a real demon that non-Christians worshipped as a god.
OK, after I stopped laughing out loud at that kind of fundy nonsense, I reflected that saying that other people's gods are really just demons is kind of the same as saying they aren't gods. Believing that your own one god is the only god in existence does not necessarily mean that you think your god is the only supernatural thing in the universe. And believing that other supernatural things (like demons) exist does not mean that you think they are gods. So I'm going to stand by my view that the Christian church was giving the message that other people's gods weren't gods.

Also, I actually wasn't thinking of the early church but more the very-post-Constantine church, after it had become an entrenched official power and went on that multi-century jag of converting European pagans.

The Hebrews carried the ark of the covenant in front of their army and waged wars against non Hebrew tribes. The Persian King Darius III was an active follower of Ahura Mazda, and pushed this belief on conquered nations in 350 BC. Christians are definitely not the first people to try to push their beliefs on "non-believers".
You're mistaken about what was going on in those ancient cultures.

The business with the ark of the covenant was magic, plain and simple, and no different than any other culture carrying and revealing a god icon, idol, relic, or symbol in order to blow the enemy away with the awesome might of their god's mighty awesomeness. It in no way -- as in zero way -- implies that the Hebrews were attempting to impose Judaism on non-Hebrew tribes.

As for Darius -- and all the Persian and Babylonian kings before him -- that was standard operating procedure for post-war reorientation of subject tribes. It was part of a two-pronged program of destroying cultural identity and, where possible, physically uprooting and relocating conquered populations. The massive traumatic disruption of society this caused helped keep the conquered people submissive. (Though I believe Darius was the one who put a stop to the actual physical moving of populations. His predecessor Cyrus was notorious for it. Or was it first Darius and then Cyrun? I can never keep those two straight.)

As for the replacement of gods, one thing to remember is that ancient polytheist cultures did have an idea that gods could die, and to "kill" a people's god was a symbol of absolute power over all aspects of their lives. The ancient kings did not really care if their subjects worshipped their official gods. All they cared about was that they got the message that the mighty awesomeness of the conquerer's god extended to the conquerer himself as well -- demonstrated by the destruction and replacement of temples. Slapping a new god over the land was really a matter of re-branding territory. You knew who controlled the land by which gods got the good temples. Though the local religions usually did reassert themselves, either as separate cults or by influencing the local form of the new official cult.

As far as I know, the one clear example of an ancient ruler attempting to force his own beliefs onto a people who didn't really want them, and declaring that the people's gods were not real, compared to his own god, was Ahknaten in Egypt. And that didn't really take root.

P.S. The followers of Ahura Mazda are called Zoroastrians and, unlike Zeus, there are still people who practice Zoroastrianism to this day.
I'm aware of Zoroastrianism, but that is a very small religion still more or less local to the Mesopotamian/northern Himalayan region and its people. I've known several Zoroastrians during my life and was able to discuss it with them at various times. In my opinion, the fact that Zoroastrianism is still a practiced religion is much more a testament to cultural survival than to the force of Darius.

If you want interesting theorizing about where religion will go in the future read Frank Herbert's Dune series. Not only does it theorize about where present-day religions will go, but how religion can be used as a tool to control the masses over the course of centuries/millenia.

I find that people don't take God seriously at all, they take religion seriously. The two aren't the same.

There will always be religion - gods may come and go, but religion will be with us always.

Really? I'd say the opposite: religions may come and go, but god(s) will be with us always.

What's next?

Worship of the atom bomb, Planet of the Apes style. That was the God of the remaining humans and it was real

Really? I'd say the opposite: religions may come and go, but god(s) will be with us always.

I said religion not religions. We will always superimpose our structure on deity until, ultimately, it is not deity we worship but the structure.

Religions and dieties are probably going to get mixed up somewhat in the future, whether it be Islam somehow replacing Mohammad with Mohammad Ali or Jesus being the son of a Jackal-headed Diety, although God (the name given to the Abrahamic [Judaism, Christianity, and Islam] god, though the Muslims stick with his Arabic name) is supposed to be all-powerful, so he could turn himself into Anubis if he wanted to.

Also, old religions could make a comeback. It would be funny to see people get into a fight over whether the Roman gods or Greek gods were superior, seeing how the Romans and Greeks worshipped the same gods. Hell, they both caled Apollo Apollo. Go figure. Those wacky Europeans and their wacky ways. They hate, fight, and kill eachother simply because they exist and now they're all lovey-dovey like nothing happened. I think everyone still hates France, though. I guess it's the wacky food.

Plus, real life people could be worshipped like supernatural beings one day, just like Jesus. Wouldn't be surprised if Bonham gets worshipped.

the simple honest truth, is that nobody knows jack. that doesn't keep jack from existing just because nobody knows him. now the human ego has a hard time reconciling itself to that, so people try to pretend they know all kinds of things that no one does.

now one thing that IS true, is that we don't HAVE to know jack, to be invisibly hugged by hsir.

time, as pointed out, rolls on, and the names chainge, the dogmas grow old and have puppies.

meanwhile jack is whatever it is, wherever it is, whatever anyone tries to pretend they know about hmer or not. i think if people didn't use such things as an excuse to hurt each other, it would all be a great laugh, to whatever god or gods there might be, watching people trying to name and define them, must be like watching a bunch of drunks playing pin the tail or blind man's bluff.

=^^=
.../\...

Actually, it is worse with Zeus since that was a polytheistic religion and all.. with many gods...In the days of David and Solomon and before that Proto-judaism was polytheistic, too.

The Hebrews carried the ark of the covenant in front of their army and waged wars against non Hebrew tribes.I think there's one account of that in the bible. And on that occasion they lost horribly (and lost the ark temporarily), because they weren't supposed to involve it in battle. So I very much doubt it was common practice.

The Hebrews carried the ark of the covenant in front of their army and waged wars against non Hebrew tribes.um, not at all.

Hebrews ≠ Israelites

No, I think Domici was right.

Judaism is not an evangelical religion, and the ancient Jews did not try to convert anyone to Judaism or stamp out other religions -- only to stop Jews from practicing other religions. It is not clear whether they personally thought only their god existed for real, or whether they specified that their one god was the only god for Jews, so that Jews would have nothing to do with the gods of other people -- which is not the same as saying those other gods don't exist or aren't gods. Obviously, they thought their god was better than the other gods, but they were hardly unique in that.

It was Christianity that first actively sought an exclusive franchise on people's religious practice, and made a very big deal out of all other gods being total fictions that should be rejected -- i.e. their god is the only god.

I seem to remember the Hebrews doing lots of slaughtering, Jericho for example. Also no one really "converted" back then; they just took their god(s) with them. No one really seemed to care. Keep in mind it was merchants that did most of the travle. The only historic evidance of conversion I can think of right now would have been in Eygpt under Phaero (sorry I forget his name) denouncing all the other gods in favor for Amun-Ra. Which turned out really bad for him.

...As for next big religion... Wicca I guess. There growth rate in middle America was/is remarkable. Causing Christians to become very paranoid. But all in all people will probly flock to it, because of its "peaceful aura." Yes it's a new age religion with little ties to the Wiccans of history. However, because of its lack of violent overtones, punishments, and condeming people will attract people. Also, it's attitudes on sex couldn't hurt.

I seem to remember the Hebrews doing lots of slaughtering, Jericho for example. Also no one really "converted" back then; they just took their god(s) with them. No one really seemed to care. Keep in mind it was merchants that did most of the travle. The only historic evidance of conversion I can think of right now would have been in Eygpt under Phaero (sorry I forget his name) denouncing all the other gods in favor for Amun-Ra. Which turned out really bad for him.
A) You should really try reading the whole thread before you post in it, especially when it's only three pages long. In post #33 (higher up on this very page) I told you what that Pharoah's name was and said the exact same thing about him. In fact, in both post #33 and the one you were supposedly responding to, I made the exact same point you just tried to.

B) And about the Hebrews slaughtering -- who said they didn't? And what does that have to do with the topic, or even with anything that I said?

Now now no need to get all angry at the stupid people with their stupid responses Muravyets, let it come and go, no need to get all worked up.

Now now no need to get all angry at the stupid people with their stupid responses Muravyets, let it come and go, no need to get all worked up.
Well if I can't even work out my anger on them, what use are they? ;)

the simple honest truth, is that nobody knows jack. that doesn't keep jack from existing just because nobody knows him. now the human ego has a hard time reconciling itself to that, so people try to pretend they know all kinds of things that no one does.

now one thing that IS true, is that we don't HAVE to know jack, to be invisibly hugged by hsir.

time, as pointed out, rolls on, and the names chainge, the dogmas grow old and have puppies.

meanwhile jack is whatever it is, wherever it is, whatever anyone tries to pretend they know about hmer or not. i think if people didn't use such things as an excuse to hurt each other, it would all be a great laugh, to whatever god or gods there might be, watching people trying to name and define them, must be like watching a bunch of drunks playing pin the tail or blind man's bluff.

=^^=
.../\...

And just what do you know about what other people know?

Well if I can't even work out my anger on them, what use are they? ;)

Uhmmmmm.... they're useless... I guess your right, get um:sniper:

As a Christian I believe there are 2 different things that can be worshipped:
Specific physical objects or persons. For example the sun, a cult leader or a saint.
Fictional characters. For example most mythical characters.



Fixed ;)

WTF is ovaltine?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovaltine

The joke is from an episode of Seinfeld.