NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-Olympics/idUSPEK30252620080418

I have many views about the 2008 Summer Olympic's in China but I dont know where to start.... Below are just some things I'm thinking about


First of all why did the Olympic Commitee choose China in the first place. China has had a christmas list of problems with communism, human rights, and its treatment towards the world. Just because a country is a "wanna-be" superpower doesnt meen they should have the title. Who would want to go to the olympics in china!!!

1: Its dirty, you America haters and americans who think that the United States is a horrible country because we dirty the sky with our trucks and factories. Have you been to china and seen the pollution (thought la was bad) its filthy and the streets of china and the major oil plants in major cities yuck!!!

2: China spying on the U.S: Reports have shown that the U.S military has caught the chinese military sending spy's and spying on American boats in American Waters. Do you want to go to a country that is watching you from a boat in the sea?

3: China isnt a country of justice. In order for them to build these massive olympic villages and stadiums they are tearing down peasents and middle class homes. And if the people resist then you can go visit them in jail. Also normal and poor citizens arent allowed to go to the olympics. Oh ya mental handicaps arent allowed in their either. And if anyone is caught then they will be lashed (Sounds Fun). Why would a goverment do that to their own citizens (Dont get me started on organ harvesting)

4: Has anyone watched the news? Have you seen the massive torch relay protest in England, France, India, Pakistan, United States, and South Korea? And the most violent protest were in North Korea (Oops thats illegal their). But I dont remember such outrage over a country. We didnt see this in 2006,2004,2002,2000 did we?

Finally do you think a country should host the Olympic when its people dont even know whats going on in the world. Or when a country (China) burns its fellow participants flag (France)? And some chinese people refer to call Jeanne d'Arc a prostitute ... Cant wait till the torch goes into Tibet!!!


DOWN WITH CHINA :upyours:
IS WHAT I SHOULD OF NAMED THIS ARTICLE!!!



Let me know what you think....

Stop pissing in your coffee and take a nap.

I was under the impression that there were no protests in NK.

I was under the impression that there were no protests in NK.

Yes I know their werent

Then why did you say there were?

All I know is that US companies are going to make a nice amount of money off of these Olympics.

I won't be watching either way...

What I'm trying to say is that it doesn't really matter, since I don't view the Olympics as some sort of reward to good countries. It's just a way for countries to try to prove how much better they are than everyone else.

:sniper:

I don't really see the problem with having the Olympics in Beijing. It may be different if we were looking for someone to head the International Human Rights Committee, or have a seat in the Security Council...oh, right.

You'd better retract the Communism comment before Andras reads this thread. Or we'll have another "freedom and civil rights are an invention of the capitalist scum" threadjack.

I'm absolutly with you...

China is a fucking ugly freak.
We are gentle to them only because the Western World now care more for money than for any form of honor or standards.

It's a shame.

And of course I won't watch anything of this Olympic Games, their are not legal for me.

1: Its dirty, you America haters and americans who think that the United States is a horrible country because we dirty the sky with our trucks and factories. Have you been to china and seen the pollution (thought la was bad) its filthy and the streets of china and the major oil plants in major cities yuck!!!
What does dirty have to do with it?
2: China spying on the U.S: Reports have shown that the U.S military has caught the chinese military sending spy's and spying on American boats in American Waters. Do you want to go to a country that is watching you from a boat in the sea?
Everybody spies on everybody else.

so? what do you care? the Olympics is just all the participating countries trying to make all the other countries look bad and claim they are superior.

First of all why did the Olympic Commitee choose China in the first place.

because they wanted it the most and it was hoped China would put the effort in to clean up human rights if it started playing with all the nice boys (good influence unlike say sealing Cuba off)

China has had a christmas list of problems with communism

I never realized that was an issue of global importance? American are you?

Who would want to go to the olympics in china!!!

I would because then I could have all the young women fight over my western powers:)

plus its like sunny on the coast and stuff (omg imagine all the souvenirs!)

1: Its dirty, you America haters

I think its more the stupid and ignorant citizenry myself...

2: China spying on the U.S

thank God they don't have spy satellites or anything like that!

3: China isnt a country of justice. In order for them to build these massive olympic villages and stadiums they are tearing down peasents and middle class homes. And if the people resist then you can go visit them in jail.

sounds normal for most of the world

4: Has anyone watched the news? Have you seen the massive torch relay protest in England, France, India, Pakistan, United States, and South Korea?

whats your point?

Finally do you think a country should host the Olympic when its people dont even know whats going on in the world.

V I have the feeling your about to prove yourself wrong V

Or when a country (China) burns its fellow participants flag (France)? And some chinese people refer to call Jeanne d'Arc a prostitute ... Cant wait till the torch goes into Tibet!!!

China didn't burn the French flag its people did and the police did a commendable job only stepping in when the protests got out of hand

Let me know what you think....

worse countries have held the games so keep your top on

First of all why did the Olympic Commitee choose China in the first place. China has had a christmas list of problems with communism, human rights, and its treatment towards the world. Just because a country is a "wanna-be" superpower doesnt meen they should have the title. Who would want to go to the olympics in china!!!

Because it means big money. Increased exposure to China's already large amount of worldwide recognition as a quickly industrializing nation will only benefit the investors that have their plants in China. The longer you are in China, the more you'll realise how business friendly it is.

1: Its dirty, you America haters and americans who think that the United States is a horrible country because we dirty the sky with our trucks and factories. Have you been to china and seen the pollution (thought la was bad) its filthy and the streets of china and the major oil plants in major cities yuck!!!

Yes? So? Should it be held in the US, now? Because if you're using this as an argument, why don't we move the Olympics to only the cleanest places on Earth? Like, Fiji? I'm sure they have clean cities there.

2: China spying on the U.S: Reports have shown that the U.S military has caught the chinese military sending spy's and spying on American boats in American Waters. Do you want to go to a country that is watching you from a boat in the sea?

Dude, the only people going to the Olympics are tourists, businessmen and athletes. How does this affect them?

3: China isnt a country of justice. In order for them to build these massive olympic villages and stadiums they are tearing down peasents and middle class homes. And if the people resist then you can go visit them in jail. Also normal and poor citizens arent allowed to go to the olympics. Oh ya mental handicaps arent allowed in their either. And if anyone is caught then they will be lashed (Sounds Fun). Why would a goverment do that to their own citizens (Dont get me started on organ harvesting)

Link.

4: Has anyone watched the news? Have you seen the massive torch relay protest in England, France, India, Pakistan, United States, and South Korea? And the most violent protest were in North Korea (Oops thats illegal their). But I dont remember such outrage over a country. We didnt see this in 2006,2004,2002,2000 did we?

That's illegal in many countries, I believe.

Finally do you think a country should host the Olympic when its people dont even know whats going on in the world. Or when a country (China) burns its fellow participants flag (France)? And some chinese people refer to call Jeanne d'Arc a prostitute ... Cant wait till the torch goes into Tibet!!!

This is the Olympics. Tell me, what relevance does the subject of human rights have to do with the Olympics?

Not Too Mention They Are Boring!

Not Too Mention They Are Boring!

...What?

oh and by the way human rights are a joke, the sooner you learn that the better off you'll be.

oh and by the way human rights are a joke, the sooner you learn that the better off you'll be.

That doesn't answer my initial question of why you posted 'They are boring'

That doesn't answer my initial question of why you posted 'They are boring'

are you saying the Olympics aren't?

are you saying the Olympics aren't?

I'm pretty sure someone out there doesn't think it is. In fact, probably a couple million somebodies.

I got a chuckle from the RAAAAAAGE this kid had over this, more so from the easily avoidable grammar issues..

All these threads.. who actually gives a fuck about the olympics?

Cerean;13663341']All these threads.. who actually gives a fuck about the olympics?

Nobody.

I'm absolutly with you...

China is a fucking ugly freak.
We are gentle to them only because the Western World now care more for money than for any form of honor or standards.

It's a shame.

And of course I won't watch anything of this Olympic Games, their are not legal for me.

The Western World has always care only for money...

The Olympics are given to the country that can pay the most to host them...

I'm pretty sure someone out there doesn't think it is. In fact, probably a couple million somebodies.

thats just the competitors family ;)

The Western World has always care only for money...

only the west?

http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-Olympics/idUSPEK30252620080418

I have many views about the 2008 Summer Olympic's in China but I dont know where to start.... Below are just some things I'm thinking about


First of all why did the Olympic Commitee choose China in the first place. China has had a christmas list of problems with communism, human rights, and its treatment towards the world. Just because a country is a "wanna-be" superpower doesnt meen they should have the title. Who would want to go to the olympics in china!!!

1: Its dirty, you America haters and americans who think that the United States is a horrible country because we dirty the sky with our trucks and factories. Have you been to china and seen the pollution (thought la was bad) its filthy and the streets of china and the major oil plants in major cities yuck!!!

2: China spying on the U.S: Reports have shown that the U.S military has caught the chinese military sending spy's and spying on American boats in American Waters. Do you want to go to a country that is watching you from a boat in the sea?

3: China isnt a country of justice. In order for them to build these massive olympic villages and stadiums they are tearing down peasents and middle class homes. And if the people resist then you can go visit them in jail. Also normal and poor citizens arent allowed to go to the olympics. Oh ya mental handicaps arent allowed in their either. And if anyone is caught then they will be lashed (Sounds Fun). Why would a goverment do that to their own citizens (Dont get me started on organ harvesting)

4: Has anyone watched the news? Have you seen the massive torch relay protest in England, France, India, Pakistan, United States, and South Korea? And the most violent protest were in North Korea (Oops thats illegal their). But I dont remember such outrage over a country. We didnt see this in 2006,2004,2002,2000 did we?

Finally do you think a country should host the Olympic when its people dont even know whats going on in the world. Or when a country (China) burns its fellow participants flag (France)? And some chinese people refer to call Jeanne d'Arc a prostitute ... Cant wait till the torch goes into Tibet!!!


DOWN WITH CHINA :upyours:
IS WHAT I SHOULD OF NAMED THIS ARTICLE!!!



Let me know what you think....

You know, the first thing I thought of when reading this was
"Cor, you're right, I mean, you'd never catch Nazi Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936_Summer_Olympics) holding the Olympics in 1936 or anything."

I don't really see the problem with having the Olympics in Beijing. It may be different if we were looking for someone to head the International Human Rights Committee, or have a seat in the Security Council...oh, right.

oh snap

Funny. I thought burning flags is a act of freedom of expression - however xenophobic the content of the expression is. What now? America can rename French fries to freedom fries but China cannot burn the French flag?

Get real - and less hypocritical.

thats just the competitors family ;)



only the west?

You are correct. NOT only the the west... I just wanted to point that there was never such a thing of worries about honor and standars.

And also...the Olympics are so boring and lame.... I dont understand where they get the money for that thing.

And also...the Olympics are so boring and lame.... I don't understand where they get the money for that thing.

Because there are many people who disagree with you?

I have many views about the 2008 Summer Olympic's in China but I dont know where to start

The 2008 Summer Olympic's what in China?

Hooray for Sinophobia!

Funny. I thought burning flags is a act of freedom of expression - however xenophobic the content of the expression is. What now? America can rename French fries to freedom fries but China cannot burn the French flag?

Get real - and less hypocritical.

Why are fries called french anyway??

back to the thread the olympics is about sport and stuff not about where it is held

Why are fries called french anyway??

back to the thread the olympics is about sport and stuff not about where it is held

It's because of the way they're cut. They're cut "French style" or "Frenched".

Why are fries called french anyway??

I have no idea.

Why are fries called french anyway??Because Belgians speak French and Belgians invented them. I suppose pommes frites was too difficult to catch on in America.

I have no idea.

I explained why right above you. You know, guys, this ignoring me thing was slightly amusing when it started, but three years of it gets a little tiring.

Has anyone mentioned the 'Yellow Peril' yet?

Seriously...case closed.

I explained why right above you. You know, guys, this ignoring me thing was slightly amusing when it started, but three years of it gets a little tiring.

:(

I'm sorry. Please accept my humble apologies. I get ignored all the time too!

http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-Olympics/idUSPEK30252620080418

I have many views about the 2008 Summer Olympic's in China but I dont know where to start.... Below are just some things I'm thinking about


First of all why did the Olympic Commitee choose China in the first place. China has had a christmas list of problems with communism, human rights, and its treatment towards the world. Just because a country is a "wanna-be" superpower doesnt meen they should have the title. Who would want to go to the olympics in china!!!

Perhaps to encourage China to improve, given that world attention will be on them.

1: Its dirty, you America haters and americans who think that the United States is a horrible country because we dirty the sky with our trucks and factories. Have you been to china and seen the pollution (thought la was bad) its filthy and the streets of china and the major oil plants in major cities yuck!!!
Mexico City and Los Angeles were dirty, too. Didn't keep them from having the Olympics there. Oh, and by the way, using the phrase "America haters" just makes you look retarded, it doesn't help your argument.

2: China spying on the U.S: Reports have shown that the U.S military has caught the chinese military sending spy's and spying on American boats in American Waters. Do you want to go to a country that is watching you from a boat in the sea?
We spy on them, too. We just are better at doing it without getting caught, though not all the time. If you don't realize that every country spies on lots of other countries, you're fucking naive. Also, I doubt the rest of the world cares about the United States of America being butthurt.

3: China isnt a country of justice. In order for them to build these massive olympic villages and stadiums they are tearing down peasents and middle class homes. And if the people resist then you can go visit them in jail. Also normal and poor citizens arent allowed to go to the olympics. Oh ya mental handicaps arent allowed in their either. And if anyone is caught then they will be lashed (Sounds Fun). Why would a goverment do that to their own citizens (Dont get me started on organ harvesting)
We know this, einstein. Do you really think you're telling us something knew? The Olympics has been held in plenty of countries that don't exactly look saintly if you examine them closely. China sucks. This is old news, everyone knows that China licks sweaty taint.

4: Has anyone watched the news? Have you seen the massive torch relay protest in England, France, India, Pakistan, United States, and South Korea? And the most violent protest were in North Korea (Oops thats illegal their). But I dont remember such outrage over a country. We didnt see this in 2006,2004,2002,2000 did we?
Yes. And also, you read real news, you don't watch it. Of course we didn't see this in the past few Olympic games. Because they weren't held in shitty countries like China. What's your point?

Finally do you think a country should host the Olympic when its people dont even know whats going on in the world. Or when a country (China) burns its fellow participants flag (France)? And some chinese people refer to call Jeanne d'Arc a prostitute ... Cant wait till the torch goes into Tibet!!!
Politics is dirty. As for holding it in a land with no freedom, the Olympics were held in Germany in 1936. It's been done before. Here's to hoping that the French athletes win a bunch of gold medals so we can laugh at China.


DOWN WITH CHINA :upyours:
IS WHAT I SHOULD OF NAMED THIS ARTICLE!!!



Let me know what you think....

Was this necessary? It doesn't make your post better.

Because they weren't held in shitty countries like China.

Thanks for your "defence" but China isn't a shitty country.

Good grief. Western xenophobia.:headbang:

Thanks for your "defence" but China isn't a shitty country.

Good grief. Western xenophobia.:headbang:

All right, I'll get more specific. "Country with a shitty government and political system" then.

Also, I wasn't "defending" anything. I was just making fun of the OP and being an asshole because he thought he was bringing us some important news.

For the record, if the Olympics were being held in Los Angeles, I'd call that place shitty, too.

All right, I'll get more specific. "Country with a shitty government and political system" then.

Thank you. But even that isn't accurate. It's complicated, authoritarian and prone to corruption and favouritism, but it isn't "shitty".


Also, I wasn't "defending" anything. I was just making fun of the OP and being an asshole because he thought he was bringing us some important news.

Hence the use of quotations in "defence".


For the record, if the Olympics were being held in Los Angeles, I'd call that place shitty, too.

Well, Los Angeles isn't shitty either. It's very hot, very dry, very flat, very tiring to walk around, prone to racial tension, but it's not "shitty".

You just can't throw the adjective "shitty" around like that.

Or I'm just being an arsehole. Haha. :p

Thank you. But even that isn't accurate. It's complicated, authoritarian and prone to corruption and favouritism, but it isn't "shitty".
I would disagree there. In fact, I would say that the word "shitty" perfectly describes a government that is authoritarian and prone to dirty corruption and favoritism.


Well, Los Angeles isn't shitty either. It's very hot, very dry, very flat, very tiring to walk around, prone to racial tension, but it's not "shitty".
And the attributes of Los Angeles that you just listed are the reason I say that it is "shitty."

You just can't throw the adjective "shitty" around like that.

Or I'm just being an arsehole. Haha. :p

Yes I can, I just did. lol.

I would disagree there. In fact, I would say that the word "shitty" perfectly describes a government that is authoritarian and prone to dirty corruption and favoritism.



And the attributes of Los Angeles that you just listed are the reason I say that it is "shitty."



Yes I can, I just did. lol.


Hahaha! I did say it was me being an arsehole!! :p

The answer as to why the IOC gave China the right to host these upcoming Olympic games in China is quite easy. Money, the IOC officials were given enough money and free things including first class travel, property, their children getting free education at their top schools, thus the country which bribed them the most was China. Do you think that it is some coincidence that the only reason why the past few Olympics over the past few decades have been in rich countries?

The answer as to why the IOC gave China the right to host these upcoming Olympic games in China is quite easy. Money, the IOC officials were given enough money and free things including first class travel, property, their children getting free education at their top schools, thus the country which bribed them the most was China. Do you think that it is some coincidence that the only reason why the past few Olympics over the past few decades have been in rich countries?

has there been an Olympics in a poor country???

The anti-French protests are being organised and orchestrated by the PRC to send a message to France not to boycott the opening ceremony. It's all politics. This is China's 'subtle' way of showing to the world what will happen if you don't agree to their 'requests'. It happen 3 years ago with the nationwide anti-Japan riots. Considering wearing an orange t-shirt or carrying a Tibetan flag will have you arrested immediately, how can these people organise nationwide protests without police/army invention? Unless the police and army have been told not to stop them.
Just watch - as soon as France agrees to attend to opening ceremony, the protests will immediately stop and the forums will be full of Chinese saying how much they respect France.
We've always been at war with Eurasia...

I think the main reason to support a boycott is that this year's Olympics will be a total farce due to the number of quite obvious steroid-laden Chinese athletes winning. Over the last 3-4 years, over 90% of all illegal performance-enhancing steroids and drugs uncovered in the West has been traced back to China. Indeed, the entire Greek weightlifting squad has now been banned from attending, due to 'faulty' supplements the coach bought from a firm in China that was found, after administrating to his athletes, to be full of steroids. The Chinese firm was investigated by the Chinese authorities and found to be 'illegally' manufacturing steroids. (in other words, they were doing what they were told to do until they were caught, when it then became illegal)
If all those steroids are being made in China and shipped to the West, one has to ask oneself, why are so many pharmaceutical factories in China making performance-enhancing drugs? Especially over the last 3 years, which 'coincidently' is leading up to the Beijing Olympics...
mmmm....
nope. cannot think of any reason at all...

Add in that all the testing is going to be done in China with Chinese officials, and one can quite easily imagine that we will see a bunch of previously unknown Chinese supermen (and women, though it'll be difficult to tell the difference under all those layers of muscle and hair) breaking world records and winning gold medals for the glory of China (read: for the glory of the totalitarianistic Chinese political system).
Any who do somehow manage to slip through and test positive will be the result of a rogue coach from hicksville, China.

has there been an Olympics in a poor country???

Wasn't that my point?

Wasn't that my point?

you said past few to suggest this was a new trend.




also might it be tied to the countries abilities to produce stadiums large enough to host the events.

has there been an Olympics in a poor country???


UK - 1948 ala The Austerity Games.

Just to point out that the IOC does not choose a country. It is awarded to a country after a vote of the IOC.

In reality the IOC is so corrupt that yes...the voting is just a sop...

Personally I am into the Olympics....I've watched pretty much everyone one since Moscow...but this has now gon3 too far....China does not deserve the Olympics as its current government has done nothing to deal with human rights and environmental issues.

This has nothing to do with the Chinese people (unless they support the regime) and everything to do with the Chinese government.

you said past few to suggest this was a new trend.




also might it be tied to the countries abilities to produce stadiums large enough to host the events.

Ah I see, well I cannot really say as if the first few was because they were the most successful at 'convincing' the IOC members (not just criteria, but also the best incentives), it may not be a new thing at all and could be something which has been going on for the past 112 years.

There have been many allegations of bribes over the years of this (funny how the papers relating to the 1996 games were destroyed before the inquiry), indeed the 2002 Winter games selection proof of bribery was found which lead to the demise of 10 IOC officials.

Some smaller countries may not be able to afford the infrastructure but there have been many poorer countries that have bid for the games including, Mexico, Hungary, Belgium, Argentina, Serbia, South Africa, Brazil and Cuba.

The anti-French protests are being organised and orchestrated by the PRC to send a message to France not to boycott the opening ceremony. It's all politics. This is China's 'subtle' way of showing to the world what will happen if you don't agree to their 'requests'. It happen 3 years ago with the nationwide anti-Japan riots. Considering wearing an orange t-shirt or carrying a Tibetan flag will have you arrested immediately, how can these people organise nationwide protests without police/army invention? Unless the police and army have been told not to stop them.
Just watch - as soon as France agrees to attend to opening ceremony, the protests will immediately stop and the forums will be full of Chinese saying how much they respect France.

That is wrong, and is a classic example of Sinophobia and ignorance. Many of the anti-French protests, and indeed the anti-Japanese protests three years ago, were organised by civil society - ordinary people who felt that the sovereignty and dignity of their country are being trampled on - especially by people like you who express these views. In fact the Chinese government constantly worries that these populist movements will spillover and create unrest.

When the Chinese government clamps down on protests, it's a violation of human rights. When the Chinese people are allowed to protest against perceived foreign aggression, it's orchestrated by the Chinese government. :rolleyes:


I think the main reason to support a boycott is that this year's Olympics will be a total farce due to the number of quite obvious steroid-laden Chinese athletes winning. Over the last 3-4 years, over 90% of all illegal performance-enhancing steroids and drugs uncovered in the West has been traced back to China. Indeed, the entire Greek weightlifting squad has now been banned from attending, due to 'faulty' supplements the coach bought from a firm in China that was found, after administrating to his athletes, to be full of steroids. The Chinese firm was investigated by the Chinese authorities and found to be 'illegally' manufacturing steroids. (in other words, they were doing what they were told to do until they were caught, when it then became illegal)
If all those steroids are being made in China and shipped to the West, one has to ask oneself, why are so many pharmaceutical factories in China making performance-enhancing drugs? Especially over the last 3 years, which 'coincidently' is leading up to the Beijing Olympics...
mmmm....

Your argument that "because it's made in that country, it's used in that country" is very weak. Over the last decade or so most of the consumer products you find, morally good or morally bad, quality good or quality bad, can be traced back to production in China.

A equivalent argument can be made saying that the Western market for illegal sporting drugs is large enough for Chinese firms to manufacture them. Then the debate falls on who to blame: the demanders, or the suppliers. But just because something is made in a country does not necessarily mean that it is also used in the country.

I'm not saying that Chinese athletes are completely clean. But you have to back your theory up with facts, not xenophobia.


Add in that all the testing is going to be done in China with Chinese officials, and one can quite easily imagine that we will see a bunch of previously unknown Chinese supermen (and women, though it'll be difficult to tell the difference under all those layers of muscle and hair) breaking world records and winning gold medals for the glory of China (read: for the glory of the totalitarianistic Chinese political system.

You used the verb "imagine", so in fact it's all in your head. Where are the facts?

If Chinese athletes break world records and win gold medals for the glory of China, when American, British, and Australian athletes break world records and win gold medals, who is it in the glory of? Why is it different?

You imply that if Chinese athletes win a lot of gold medals the totalitarian Chinese politcal system will be glorified. If the Americans athletes win a lot of gold medals will the American democratic federal political system be glorified? If the British athletes win a lot of god medals, especially in the London games in 2012, will the British Westminster parliamentary system be glorified? What tosh.

You paint the entire Olympic Committee of China as if they were one monolithic organisation set out only to win glory for the Motherland. Again this is a very crude and inaccurate generalisation.

Unjustified Sinophobia, through and through.

China does not deserve the Olympics as its current government has done nothing to deal with human rights and environmental issues.

If you really want to ban authoritarian countries from hosting the Games, perhaps you should advocate the creation of a separate set of games, named "The Olympic Games for the Free World". Then your little democratic club can play. The Olympics is a global matter, and unfortunately for you the globe is larger than democracy and human rights. The Olympics is a sporting event and should be awarded according to who can host it best, not whether your citizens can vote or not vote.

Saying that the current government "has done nothing to deal with human rights and environmental issues" is also completely false. Human rights as the West defines it have progressively expanded in China in the last thirty years. You must remember they started from a very low base.

With industrialisation comes damages to the environment. It is a natural law. European and American industrialisation in the 19th centuries were equally, if not even more, damaging to the environment. Nobody decried them then and nobody decries them now.

This has nothing to do with the Chinese people (unless they support the regime) and everything to do with the Chinese government.
A lot of Chinese people in fact support the regime. Under the Communists in the last thirty years they are better fed, better clothed, better housed, and have more freedoms than they had in the last four thousand years of Chinese history.

The stark relationship of the Chinese government generally oppressing the people is a Western myth.

If you really want to ban authoritarian countries from hosting the Games, perhaps you should advocate the creation of a separate set of games, named "The Olympic Games for the Free World". Then your little democratic club can play. The Olympics is a global matter, and unfortunately for you the globe is larger than democracy and human rights. The Olympics is a sporting event and should be awarded according to who can host it best, not whether your citizens can vote or not vote.

Ahhh...you are one of those who thinks sports has nothing to do with politics.

The selection of the host city is not exactly a transparent process. The lobbying is done in private. If you think the games are awarded on the criteria of 'the country that can host it best' then you are deluded.

As it is the logic fails as notwithstanding a natural disaster the games would be held in one locale thereby negating any need to vote. Unfortunately world politics demands that a prestige event like the Olympics be shared. Oppps! There's that pesky politics thing...

Not my 'democratic club'. There is no such thing as democracy as you think of it. Our politicians do not represent us.

Saying that the current government "has done nothing to deal with human rights and environmental issues" is also completely false. Human rights as the West defines it have progressively expanded in China in the last thirty years. You must remember they started from a very low base.

With industrialisation comes damages to the environment. It is a natural law. European and American industrialisation in the 19th centuries were equally, if not even more, damaging to the environment. Nobody decried them then and nobody decries them now.

Please. Mobile execution squads and the state of Chinese mines and mining operations might be worth looking at before you think that it is a complete paradise. How many people were executed in total last year? Sure there are other countries with bad records but a - we are discussing China b - none are as bad as China's.

Having said that regarding environmental issues I will say I might be a bit harsh.

http://w1.siemens.com/press/en/pr_cc/2007/11_nov/is11076735.htm

However it does not negate that there still hundreds or thousands of factories that are pouring out toxicity of one sort or another. I base this on what I see in the West where companies can get fined for polluting. The problem is that the sums are tiny and really have little long term impact on the companies. Of course the new RoHS and WEEE regulations might increase prosecutions but I do not see a massive increase on fines.

I will say that there are some aspects I approve of...but not as drastically as the Chinese government...Zheng Xiaoyu fate for example. While I applaud anti-corruption campaigns I am not too keen on the State committing murder.

A lot of Chinese people in fact support the regime. Under the Communists in the last thirty years they are better fed, better clothed, better housed, and have more freedoms than they had in the last four thousand years of Chinese history.

That first part is entirely subjective.

Are you seriously saying that that was due entirely to the Communists? That no other system could have achieved the same if not more?



The stark relationship of the Chinese government generally oppressing the people is a Western myth.

Tibet.

DOWN WITH CHINA :upyours:
IS WHAT I SHOULD OF NAMED THIS ARTICLE!!!

Let me know what you think....

I think you should *have* learnt the proper grammar of your mother tongue before ranting.
(I am ESL, so please be gentle in any comments if I made mistakes myself)

It's because of the way they're cut. They're cut "French style" or "Frenched".

Thanks for explaining :D

That is wrong, and is a classic example of Sinophobia and ignorance. Many of the anti-French protests, and indeed the anti-Japanese protests three years ago, were organised by civil society - ordinary people who felt that the sovereignty and dignity of their country are being trampled on - especially by people like you who express these views. In fact the Chinese government constantly worries that these populist movements will spillover and create unrest.
Ah yes. The inevitable excuse that one must be ignorant of China if one has a view contrary to PRC ideology.
The PRC closely monitors and regulates the internet. It has 1,000,000 people monitoring to make sure only that which they approve of is published and accessed. The only reason anything gets published on there is because either the PRC allows it or they are the ones publishing it. Go onto a Chinese server and see if you can start up a forum calling for protests within China about Chinese involvement in Darfur or the environmental impact of the 3 gorges dam. go on. See if it'll allow you.

As for the Japanese-riots. sure...no govt involvement there. They all sprung up nationwide at the exact same time, went on for a week and then, as quickly as they started, suddenly all stopped at the same time. But hey, it was just random people complaining, right?

When the Chinese government clamps down on protests, it's a violation of human rights. When the Chinese people are allowed to protest against perceived foreign aggression, it's orchestrated by the Chinese government. :rolleyes:
because France saying they'll boycott the Olympic opening ceremony is foreign aggression. rigghtttt...here have a :rolleyes back.
Again, I ask you to travel to China, go online and do two things:
1. try to organise a peaceful demonstration within China that is critical of a foreign country that the PRC doesn't support
2. try to organise a peaceful demonstration within China that is critical of any PRC policy.
See what happens. If you can do both, and both are allowed by the police and army, I'll accept that the PRC does not orchestrate protests.

Your argument that "because it's made in that country, it's used in that country" is very weak. Over the last decade or so most of the consumer products you find, morally good or morally bad, quality good or quality bad, can be traced back to production in China.
Oh my yes, it's so weak. The fact that prior to 2005, nearly all performance-enhancing drugs being seized in the USA were being manufactured in Mexico and now, since the run-up to the Beijing Olympics over 90% of them are now being traced back to China is just a total coincidence. Because there's no possible reason why suddenly the Chinese are making huge amounts of performance-enhancing drugs in the lead-up to their games, is there. Oh my no. They would never take drugs in order to break world records.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/drugs/stories/top10.html#6

I'm not saying that Chinese athletes are completely clean. But you have to back your theory up with facts, not xenophobia.
where's the xenophobia?
fact: Dozens of Chinese athletes have been tested positive for drugs
fact: Success at these games is being promoted as a major display of China's growing involvement in International Affairs and their economic and political power
fact: Success for Chinese athletes at these games would result in themselves, their coaches and the local Party chairman getting huge bonus and generous lifetime pensions.
fact: China is now the overwhelming manufacturer of performance-enhancing drugs in the world
fact: Factories within China have to get permission and licences from the govt to manufacture their wares.
fact: Chinese athletes are housed and trained in govt-run facilities where everything is arranged for them by Party members. This means any administration of performance-enhancing drugs can only be made possible from Party members.
And you say there's no way that the Chinese govt could possibly be involved in the manufacture, supply, distribution and administration of performance-enhancing drugs to it's athletes.
An ostrich called - it wants it's sand back you've been using to hide your head under.


These are all facts. So where's the xenophobia? Unless by xenophobia you mean telling you truths which the PRC won't.


You used the verb "imagine", so in fact it's all in your head. Where are the facts?
It's called using google. Try it, you might surprise yourself. Unless you're in China, then you won't get anything.

If Chinese athletes break world records and win gold medals for the glory of China, when American, British, and Australian athletes break world records and win gold medals, who is it in the glory of? Why is it different?
Yet again I meet another Chinese who is incapable of understanding the difference between their country and their government. The PRC propaganda has hammered this home so long and so hard - that criticism of the PRC is criticism of China - that they're incapable of seeing it any other way. It's sad, yet also frightening.


You imply that if Chinese athletes win a lot of gold medals the totalitarian Chinese political system will be glorified. If the Americans athletes win a lot of gold medals will the American democratic federal political system be glorified? If the British athletes win a lot of god medals, especially in the London games in 2012, will the British Westminster parliamentary system be glorified? What tosh.
No they won't. why?
Because the US and Britain are not totalitarian societies and, as such, their winning medals is not a reflection of their governance. China, like the USSR was, uses sports as a support for their politics.
If you don't believe me that sport is intrinsically political within China, do yourself (and me) a favour and visit the sporting schools set up, financed and run by the Chinese govt to do nothing else but develop athletes. Go and watch kids as young as 6 spending up to 19 hours a day every day in training. That's their life for the next 15 years. And if they fail to deliver - if they fail to become world-class athletes - they're kicked out unable to read or write.
If this isn't political involvement in sport, then what is? If the PRC has no interest in sports, why do they have these schools?

Under a totalitarian society, everything is politics. That how they manage to keep control. That's what happened under the USSR, that's what happens here.

You paint the entire Olympic Committee of China as if they were one monolithic organisation set out only to win glory for the Motherland. Again this is a very crude and inaccurate generalisation.
Then what it is? What other reason do they have other than using sport and the Olympics as a display of support for the PRC?

Unjustified Sinophobia, through and through.
It is only if you won't research and critically analyse what your government tells you. But then, I don't expect you to comprehend what I'm saying. The PRC propaganda has seeped in too deep.

Ahhh...you are one of those who thinks sports has nothing to do with politics.

The selection of the host city is not exactly a transparent process. The lobbying is done in private. If you think the games are awarded on the criteria of 'the country that can host it best' then you are deluded.

As it is the logic fails as notwithstanding a natural disaster the games would be held in one locale thereby negating any need to vote. Unfortunately world politics demands that a prestige event like the Olympics be shared. Oppps! There's that pesky politics thing...

Not my 'democratic club'. There is no such thing as democracy as you think of it. Our politicians do not represent us.
I don't understand this bit...



Please. Mobile execution squads and the state of Chinese mines and mining operations might be worth looking at before you think that it is a complete paradise. How many people were executed in total last year? Sure there are other countries with bad records but a - we are discussing China b - none are as bad as China's.

I never said China is a complete paradise - hardly at all. For goodness sake's it's a bloody developing country. Judging it on the standards of a developed country then of course it is going to be sub-standard. :rolleyes: There are many problems in China, and I'm sorry, executions is not just a Chinese thing. Saying that China is worse because it executes more people or with a higher rate than America is an absolutely stupid thing to say. Either it's bad, or it's good, it can't be "America's executions are better than Chinese ones".

However it does not negate that there still hundreds or thousands of factories that are pouring out toxicity of one sort or another. I base this on what I see in the West where companies can get fined for polluting. The problem is that the sums are tiny and really have little long term impact on the companies. Of course the new RoHS and WEEE regulations might increase prosecutions but I do not see a massive increase on fines.

Absolutely. China is still at the early stages of development. Pollution is indeed a very serious issue. But blowing it out of proportion, implying that China has an fundamentally worse situation because it is authoritarian or because it is less developed is again very stupid.


I will say that there are some aspects I approve of...but not as drastically as the Chinese government...Zheng Xiaoyu fate for example. While I applaud anti-corruption campaigns I am not too keen on the State committing murder.

A gigantic room for improvement. I do not doubt that either.


That first part is entirely subjective. Are you seriously saying that that was due entirely to the Communists? That no other system could have achieved the same if not more?

I can't speculate about whether another type of system of government could achieve the same, but the cold, hard fact is the last thirty years of China's development was largely in part of the Communist Party's policies of reform.


Tibet.
Yes. Western myth. Tibet has been developed more than ever before in its history. Yes, the development is not all-inclusive, and could have been racist and unsavoury in some respects. But if you put that into perspective, no development strategy is perfectly egalitarian at the outset.

Ah yes. The inevitable excuse that one must be ignorant of China if one has a view contrary to PRC ideology.
The PRC closely monitors and regulates the internet. It has 1,000,000 people monitoring to make sure only that which they approve of is published and accessed. The only reason anything gets published on there is because either the PRC allows it or they are the ones publishing it. Go onto a Chinese server and see if you can start up a forum calling for protests within China about Chinese involvement in Darfur or the environmental impact of the 3 gorges dam. go on. See if it'll allow you.
There are many ways a smart cookie can do to get around these controls. Yes, the Internet is definitely less free than it is in the West, but the Internet population in China is huge, and it is not as restricted as some Westerners put it. It could also be because Internet is so free in the West that any kind of control to them seems oppressive.

You are also going to have to argue that freedom of expression is an innate right, not a privilege. It is thus so in Western philosophy, but in non-Western philosophy?

As for the Japanese-riots. sure...no govt involvement there. They all sprung up nationwide at the exact same time, went on for a week and then, as quickly as they started, suddenly all stopped at the same time. But hey, it was just random people complaining, right?
Is it a surprise that issues come to a fore for a while and then die down? What, it never happens in the West?


because France saying they'll boycott the Olympic opening ceremony is foreign aggression. rigghtttt...here have a :rolleyes back.

I didn't mean only that. Other things too, like blatant biases in the Western media. I ask people if they read the Chinese media as well. The first, knee-jerk response is that "no, because it is government-regulated". The automatic assumption that it is unfair because it is government-regulated is erronous.


Again, I ask you to travel to China, go online and do two things:
1. try to organise a peaceful demonstration within China that is critical of a foreign country that the PRC doesn't support
2. try to organise a peaceful demonstration within China that is critical of any PRC policy.
See what happens. If you can do both, and both are allowed by the police and army, I'll accept that the PRC does not orchestrate protests.

Absolutely. I personally have participated in an anti-government demonstration in 2003 against a law that, if passed, was feared would curtail civil rights. Granted, it was in Hong Kong - but it's still China.

The picture that every Chinese person are groaning under the severe oppression of the Chinese government and all of them curry in favour of Japan trying to water down their history books is very, very wrong.

Granted, the Communists themselves also use history to their own ends, but do not assume that Chinese people do not genuinely feel nationalist.


Oh my yes, it's so weak. The fact that prior to 2005, nearly all performance-enhancing drugs being seized in the USA were being manufactured in Mexico and now, since the run-up to the Beijing Olympics over 90% of them are now being traced back to China is just a total coincidence. Because there's no possible reason why suddenly the Chinese are making huge amounts of performance-enhancing drugs in the lead-up to their games, is there. Oh my no. They would never take drugs in order to break world records.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/drugs/stories/top10.html#6
Ah, see. I never said that. Athletes from all around the world are potential to take drugs. I just don't see why you feel the need to single out China as if it has a worse case. You don't have hard statistics proving that those drugs are more used in China than anywhere else.


where's the xenophobia?
fact: Dozens of Chinese athletes have been tested positive for drugs

What? And others haven't? The point isn't about China doing it. The point is why is China somehow worse than any other country that does it. That's the xenophobia.

fact: Success at these games is being promoted as a major display of China's growing involvement in International Affairs and their economic and political power

There is a difference between getting a lot of medals and hosting the Olympics successfully. It seems that you mean not "success at these games" but "success of these games".

Well, duh. What do you think China wants to show? That it's going to close itself up? China wants to join the modern world, but the modern world doesn't seem eager to embrace it.


fact: Success for Chinese athletes at these games would result in themselves, their coaches and the local Party chairman getting huge bonus and generous lifetime pensions.

And success for American or British athletes will result in what else, exactly?


fact: China is now the overwhelming manufacturer of performance-enhancing drugs in the world

In fact it is the overwhelming manufacturer of everything else in the world.


fact: Factories within China have to get permission and licences from the govt to manufacture their wares.
That's not true. There is a lot illegal production going where the money comes from. And most money in the world comes from...?


fact: Chinese athletes are housed and trained in govt-run facilities where everything is arranged for them by Party members. This means any administration of performance-enhancing drugs can only be made possible from Party members.
You give too much credit to the kind of authoritarianism the Party holds.


And you say there's no way that the Chinese govt could possibly be involved in the manufacture, supply, distribution and administration of performance-enhancing drugs to it's athletes.
I don't. I am still just trying to ask why the Chinese situation is any worse than other situations.


These are all facts. So where's the xenophobia? Unless by xenophobia you mean telling you truths which the PRC won't.

The xenophobia comes in not when you assume China has serious problems, but when you assume China has more serious problems than any other developing country / aspiring power in the world.


Yet again I meet another Chinese who is incapable of understanding the difference between their country and their government. The PRC propaganda has hammered this home so long and so hard - that criticism of the PRC is criticism of China - that they're incapable of seeing it any other way. It's sad, yet also frightening.

Lol lol! I was born and bred in the freest society under Chinese administration with a very free press and unlimited access to the Internet. I was raised as a bilingual person, and I am currently in a university in Britain.

And I meet another Western critic who, I suspect, cannot read or speak Chinese but assumes he/she knows a lot about China by Googling in English.



No they won't. why?
Because the US and Britain are not totalitarian societies and, as such, their winning medals is not a reflection of their governance. China, like the USSR was, uses sports as a support for their politics.

Ah...there's a difference between hosting the Olympics and winning a lot of gold medals. China has won a lot of gold medals even though the Games weren't held in China. Hosting the Olympics is just inviting the world to see how good China has become (regardless of the improvements still have yet to be made). China is not, unlike the Nazis, trying to demonstrate that Chinese people are racially superior. It is just trying to say that: Look, we can actually organise something nice for the entire international community to enjoy and also show a bit of what our country has become.

Every country wants to glorify themselves during the Olympics. If not East London doesn't have to be renovated for 2012. Oh well, because Britain is a democracy it can just show them what a hellhole East London is today? Ken Livingstone used the fact that he won the Olympics for London for his re-election campaign. Is that innately wrong or something?

The point is still this: why is it worse than other countries when China wants to put a good light on what it does?


If you don't believe me that sport is intrinsically political within China, do yourself (and me) a favour and visit the sporting schools set up, financed and run by the Chinese govt to do nothing else but develop athletes. Go and watch kids as young as 6 spending up to 19 hours a day every day in training. That's their life for the next 15 years. And if they fail to deliver - if they fail to become world-class athletes - they're kicked out unable to read or write.
If this isn't political involvement in sport, then what is? If the PRC has no interest in sports, why do they have these schools?
Now answer me this: is this a more cultural thing or a more political thing?


Under a totalitarian society, everything is politics. That how they manage to keep control. That's what happened under the USSR, that's what happens here.

And it's different under a democratic society?


Then what it is? What other reason do they have other than using sport and the Olympics as a display of support for the PRC?

Show the world how nice China can be?


It is only if you won't research and critically analyse what your government tells you. But then, I don't expect you to comprehend what I'm saying. The PRC propaganda has seeped in too deep.

Yeah, somehow when any Chinese person speaks in support of China/its government he/she must have been brainwashed by propoganda. Typical Western ignorance. :rolleyes:

I implore you to not try to compare China and the West. The two exist in different cultural contexts and many things accepted as normal in the West is absolutely rejected in China. You may think that's because the West is "better", but that's only because you're used to it. I've lived in both worlds and I can tell you it is a matter of preference and culture.

Instead, I implore you to compare China with itself. Name me a period in history in which you think the Chinese way of living was anymore closer to the Western ideal than today.

Well...the Olympics were held in Berlin once you know...

I dont think the Olympics Committee cares about trivial things like Human Rights...they play for the Sport of IT!

There are many ways a smart cookie can do to get around these controls. Yes, the Internet is definitely less free than it is in the West, but the Internet population in China is huge, and it is not as restricted as some Westerners put it. It could also be because Internet is so free in the West that any kind of control to them seems oppressive.

You are also going to have to argue that freedom of expression is an innate right, not a privilege. It is thus so in Western philosophy, but in non-Western philosophy?

Is it a surprise that issues come to a fore for a while and then die down? What, it never happens in the West?



I didn't mean only that. Other things too, like blatant biases in the Western media. I ask people if they read the Chinese media as well. The first, knee-jerk response is that "no, because it is government-regulated". The automatic assumption that it is unfair because it is government-regulated is erronous.



Absolutely. I personally have participated in an anti-government demonstration in 2003 against a law that, if passed, was feared would curtail civil rights. Granted, it was in Hong Kong - but it's still China.

The picture that every Chinese person are groaning under the severe oppression of the Chinese government and all of them curry in favour of Japan trying to water down their history books is very, very wrong.

Granted, the Communists themselves also use history to their own ends, but do not assume that Chinese people do not genuinely feel nationalist.


Ah, see. I never said that. Athletes from all around the world are potential to take drugs. I just don't see why you feel the need to single out China as if it has a worse case. You don't have hard statistics proving that those drugs are more used in China than anywhere else.



What? And others haven't? The point isn't about China doing it. The point is why is China somehow worse than any other country that does it. That's the xenophobia.


There is a difference between getting a lot of medals and hosting the Olympics successfully. It seems that you mean not "success at these games" but "success of these games".

Well, duh. What do you think China wants to show? That it's going to close itself up? China wants to join the modern world, but the modern world doesn't seem eager to embrace it.



And success for American or British athletes will result in what else, exactly?



In fact it is the overwhelming manufacturer of everything else in the world.


That's not true. There is a lot illegal production going where the money comes from. And most money in the world comes from...?


You give too much credit to the kind of authoritarianism the Party holds.


I don't. I am still just trying to ask why the Chinese situation is any worse than other situations.



The xenophobia comes in not when you assume China has serious problems, but when you assume China has more serious problems than any other developing country / aspiring power in the world.



Lol lol! I was born and bred in the freest society under Chinese administration with a very free press and unlimited access to the Internet. I was raised as a bilingual person, and I am currently in a university in Britain.

And I meet another Western critic who, I suspect, cannot read or speak Chinese but assumes he/she knows a lot about China by Googling in English.




Ah...there's a difference between hosting the Olympics and winning a lot of gold medals. China has won a lot of gold medals even though the Games weren't held in China. Hosting the Olympics is just inviting the world to see how good China has become (regardless of the improvements still have yet to be made). China is not, unlike the Nazis, trying to demonstrate that Chinese people are racially superior. It is just trying to say that: Look, we can actually organise something nice for the entire international community to enjoy and also show a bit of what our country has become.

Every country wants to glorify themselves during the Olympics. If not East London doesn't have to be renovated for 2012. Oh well, because Britain is a democracy it can just show them what a hellhole East London is today? Ken Livingstone used the fact that he won the Olympics for London for his re-election campaign. Is that innately wrong or something?

The point is still this: why is it worse than other countries when China wants to put a good light on what it does?


Now answer me this: is this a more cultural thing or a more political thing?



And it's different under a democratic society?



Show the world how nice China can be?



Yeah, somehow when any Chinese person speaks in support of China/its government he/she must have been brainwashed by propoganda. Typical Western ignorance. :rolleyes:

I implore you to not try to compare China and the West. The two exist in different cultural contexts and many things accepted as normal in the West is absolutely rejected in China. You may think that's because the West is "better", but that's only because you're used to it. I've lived in both worlds and I can tell you it is a matter of preference and culture.

Instead, I implore you to compare China with itself. Name me a period in history in which you think the Chinese way of living was anymore closer to the Western ideal than today.

AHHH!!

TO MUCH READING!!!

(BY THE WAY THIS IS A JOKE I CAN READ!!)

But I dont remember such outrage over a country. We didnt see this in 2006,2004,2002,2000 did we?

Clearly, you suffer from a bad case of short memory.
Do Moscow 1980 and Los Angeles 1984 ring a bell?

this thread is made of fail.

YES!


DOWN WITH FRANCE!!!


Erm...I mean...what?

AHHH!!

TO MUCH READING!!!

(BY THE WAY THIS IS A JOKE I CAN READ!!)

Aye.

*raises glass*

To Much Reading.

Clearly, you suffer from a bad case of short memory.
Do Moscow 1980 and Los Angeles 1984 ring a bell?

this thread is made of fail.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/vonbek/ETH00010Black-Power-Mexico-City-Oly.jpg

YES!


DOWN WITH FRANCE!!!


Erm...I mean...what?

www.fuckfrance.com

over so soon

I'll just re-start again when the olympics are near