NationStates Jolt Archive

MSNBC Article (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24408142/)

4 to 8 years in prison isn't the worst thing in the universe, yet she is believed to have hanged herself. What do you think? Some awfully powerful people could have been (and have been) damaged by her...

One of her former employess also hanged herself, and apparently at some point Deborah said something to the effect of "I won't let them do to me what they did to Brandy." (That's not in the article, but I heard it on the news last n ight.)

She left multiple suicide notes, that has me leaning that way, though I suppose they could be fakes.

It's a suicide disguised as a murder disguised as a suicide!

The Butler did it?

She miscast and rolled a 2.

It's a murder-suicide! She murdered herself and then... oh, no, that doesn't make any sense at all.

I've been talking about this on another forum, and I thought I'd jump over and see what you guys think (although the thread hasn't gotten very far yet).

I'll tell you guys the same thing I told them:

Usually when people kill other people, they attempt to hide or destroy the body. The only time bodies are left where they fall is during gang/drug violence or if the killer was in a hurry (and since she was hanged, it's pretty obvious that if she was murdered, the people who did it weren't pressed for time). I think a murder/cover-up would have us asking ourselves "Where is Palfrey?" rather than "Did she really kill herself?"

A professional hit would probably be more.... professional. I don't think that they'd leave her body dangling in her mother's toolshed for all and sundry to see: if there were a cover-up my money would be on a Chandra Levy-esque abduction followed by a lengthy search designed to outlast America's attention span. I'm about 85-90% sure she killed herself.

She miscast and rolled a 2.

I'd have said she failed her save vs. Rope.

...or gravity

Colonel Mustard in the Pantry, with a (duhhh) Rope

I've been talking about this on another forum, and I thought I'd jump over and see what you guys think (although the thread hasn't gotten very far yet).

I'll tell you guys the same thing I told them:

Usually when people kill other people, they attempt to hide or destroy the body. The only time bodies are left where they fall is during gang/drug violence or if the killer was in a hurry (and since she was hanged, it's pretty obvious that if she was murdered, the people who did it weren't pressed for time). I think a murder/cover-up would have us asking ourselves "Where is Palfrey?" rather than "Did she really kill herself?"

A professional hit would probably be more.... professional. I don't think that they'd leave her body dangling in her mother's toolshed for all and sundry to see: if there were a cover-up my money would be on a Chandra Levy-esque abduction followed by a lengthy search designed to outlast America's attention span. I'm about 85-90% sure she killed herself.

isnt it uncommon for a woman to hang herself though?

isnt it uncommon for a woman to hang herself though?

Not sure. Seems reasonable, but I've never really looked into it.

I'm not saying for sure one way or the other, but the suicide hypothesis seems (based on what I've heard so far, and maybe it's been innacurately reported but I don't know that for sure) a little more likely than the alternative. I think that if someone really wanted to cover this up, they'd have acted much sooner.

Not sure. Seems reasonable, but I've never really looked into it.

I'm not saying for sure one way or the other, but the suicide hypothesis seems (based on what I've heard so far, and maybe it's been innacurately reported but I don't know that for sure) a little more likely than the alternative. I think that if someone really wanted to cover this up, they'd have acted much sooner.

I was under the impression that female suicides were typicaly 'neater' than male suicides. Hanging runs the risk of emptying your bowels and so forth. Men go for jumping off buildings onto pavement, gunshots, hanging, slitting, seppuku etc. Women are into pills, drowning, and poison.

Of course, I might be totaly wrong, since I've never seen any actual study on this and what I've said above is basically based on good ol' fashioned "what I heard this guy talking about at the bar" type learning.

I was under the impression that female suicides were typicaly 'neater' than male suicides. Hanging runs the risk of emptying your bowels and so forth. Men go for jumping off buildings onto pavement, gunshots, hanging, slitting, seppuku etc. Women are into pills, drowning, and poison.

Of course, I might be totaly wrong, since I've never seen any actual study on this and what I've said above is basically based on good ol' fashioned "what I heard this guy talking about at the bar" type learning.

Yeah. That all makes good sense, but the fact that its "unlikely" alone isn't enough to point to a murder in my book. I think if she were killed, there would be an attempt to hide the body.

She miscast and rolled a 2.

good thing she didn't roll a (I think it's) 8. If she did, the other side would have gotten to hang themselves for free...

I was under the impression that female suicides were typicaly 'neater' than male suicides. Hanging runs the risk of emptying your bowels and so forth. Men go for jumping off buildings onto pavement, gunshots, hanging, slitting, seppuku etc. Women are into pills, drowning, and poison.

Yes. On general, women attempt to avoid killing themselves in any way that might injure their physical appearance. Generally, women also try to avoid any contact with the face during suicide. All of this is due to vanity.

Off topic, but related:

More women attempt suicide, but more men accomplish it.

Not sure. Seems reasonable, but I've never really looked into it.

I'm not saying for sure one way or the other, but the suicide hypothesis seems (based on what I've heard so far, and maybe it's been innacurately reported but I don't know that for sure) a little more likely than the alternative. I think that if someone really wanted to cover this up, they'd have acted much sooner.


I remember hearing in a psych class that women are more likely to try and commit suicide in less harsh/painful ways, such as pills. Men are more likely to take the violent approach and go with hanging, shooting, etc.

Yes. On general, women attempt to avoid killing themselves in any way that might injure their physical appearance. Generally, women also try to avoid any contact with the face during suicide. All of this is due to vanity. Or perhaps it is because they want to show people they are suffering in some way, BUT don't really want to go and die, hence choosing to do something that is easier to save someone from. I mean, a person who takes pills is way more likely to survive, if caught in time, than a person who hangs them self.



Off topic, but related:

More women attempt suicide, but more men accomplish it.
Again, I would think its because women don't actually want to go through with it, but want to get that attention that comes from an attempted suicide. Not saying they are attention whores, but rather, they want someone to help them with their problems. Men see things more black and white, I believe. If they are troubled, they figure that they might as well go full throttle ahead and accomplish it.

Also, i made a thread on this topic yesterday:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=555771

:p

Not sure if anything from there could be relevant to anything in this thread.

Not sure. Seems reasonable, but I've never really looked into it.

I'm not saying for sure one way or the other, but the suicide hypothesis seems (based on what I've heard so far, and maybe it's been innacurately reported but I don't know that for sure) a little more likely than the alternative. I think that if someone really wanted to cover this up, they'd have acted much sooner.

it seems unlikely enough to me that if it IS a murder, it was done by an amateur who would have left enough clues to be found out. if the police take the possibility seriously.

it seems unlikely enough to me that if it IS a murder, it was done by an amateur who would have left enough clues to be found out. if the police take the possibility seriously.

Yeah. I think if someone were trying to cover this up, chances are they'd probably take a more professional approach. Somehow I just don't see $GOVERNMENT_OFFICIAL hiring a hitman to have her hanged in her mother's toolshed. I think if they really wanted to throw us for the proverbial loop, they'd probably favor a more mysterious approach (i.e. they wouldn't 'just leave her hanging,' so to speak).

There is (surprise, surprise) some talk about this on myspace's uncannily insipid message boards, and I've been belaboring this point for the last 24 hours and pretty much everyone refuses to understand. This is the thread, (http://forums.myspace.com/t/3931518.aspx?fuseaction=forums.viewthread) for the morbidly curious. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out which poster I am. I'm pretty much the only one there that isn't unequivocally declaring the absolute certainty of one viewpoint or the other. I acknowledge that she may have been killed, but that it's hardly my first reaction; at least insofar as the story has been laid out in front of me.

Yeah. That all makes good sense, but the fact that its "unlikely" alone isn't enough to point to a murder in my book. I think if she were killed, there would be an attempt to hide the body.

I agree. But its hard to tell. I mean, some guy may've hired a guy to hire a guy with some guys who hire guys to hire some guy to kill her, which would be a diffiuclt trail to follow. It might also be a professional trying to make it LOOK amature in the hopes that people would say its a suicide.
Or, it might just be a suicide.
I dont really know much about this particular case, so I cant really say. Hell, I didnt even know she'd died until I saw this topic.

Yeah. I think if someone were trying to cover this up, chances are they'd probably take a more professional approach. Somehow I just don't see $GOVERNMENT_OFFICIAL hiring a hitman to have her hanged in her mother's toolshed. I think if they really wanted to throw us for the proverbial loop, they'd probably favor a more mysterious approach (i.e. they wouldn't 'just leave her hanging,' so to speak).

There is (surprise, surprise) some talk about this on myspace's uncannily insipid message boards, and I've been belaboring this point for the last 24 hours and pretty much everyone refuses to understand. This is the thread, (http://forums.myspace.com/t/3931518.aspx?fuseaction=forums.viewthread) for the morbidly curious. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out which poster I am. I'm pretty much the only one there that isn't unequivocally declaring the absolute certainty of one viewpoint or the other. I acknowledge that she may have been killed, but that it's hardly my first reaction; at least insofar as the story has been laid out in front of me.


did you come over here because you couldnt take it any more?

are they usually smarter than this on myspace?

geeez reading it through makes me want to respond to your posts! your opponents really are into the murder-she-wrote theory of crime.

are they usually smarter than this on myspace?

No, not really. In fact, these guys seem to be smarter than most, sadly.

I've been talking about this on another forum, and I thought I'd jump over and see what you guys think (although the thread hasn't gotten very far yet).

I'll tell you guys the same thing I told them:

Usually when people kill other people, they attempt to hide or destroy the body. The only time bodies are left where they fall is during gang/drug violence or if the killer was in a hurry (and since she was hanged, it's pretty obvious that if she was murdered, the people who did it weren't pressed for time). I think a murder/cover-up would have us asking ourselves "Where is Palfrey?" rather than "Did she really kill herself?"

A professional hit would probably be more.... professional. I don't think that they'd leave her body dangling in her mother's toolshed for all and sundry to see: if there were a cover-up my money would be on a Chandra Levy-esque abduction followed by a lengthy search designed to outlast America's attention span. I'm about 85-90% sure she killed herself.

Yeah. I think if someone were trying to cover this up, chances are they'd probably take a more professional approach. Somehow I just don't see $GOVERNMENT_OFFICIAL hiring a hitman to have her hanged in her mother's toolshed. I think if they really wanted to throw us for the proverbial loop, they'd probably favor a more mysterious approach (i.e. they wouldn't 'just leave her hanging,' so to speak).

There is (surprise, surprise) some talk about this on myspace's uncannily insipid message boards, and I've been belaboring this point for the last 24 hours and pretty much everyone refuses to understand. This is the thread, (http://forums.myspace.com/t/3931518.aspx?fuseaction=forums.viewthread) for the morbidly curious. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out which poster I am. I'm pretty much the only one there that isn't unequivocally declaring the absolute certainty of one viewpoint or the other. I acknowledge that she may have been killed, but that it's hardly my first reaction; at least insofar as the story has been laid out in front of me.

Pretty much this. If you want to get away with killing someone you want there to be 0 evidence available to the police. If you leave a body hanging around then the cops will have guys in white overalls taking swabs of things and shining weird lights around and making stuff glow.

Pretty much this. If you want to get away with killing someone you want there to be 0 evidence available to the police. If you leave a body hanging around then the cops will have guys in white overalls taking swabs of things and shining weird lights around and making stuff glow.

and if you are going to kill her you do it RIGHT AWAY. you dont leave her alive for a year or so with every opportunity to spill whatever beans arent in her records. you kill her, dispose of the body in some clever hitman kinda way and let everyone assume she fled the country.

She left multiple suicide notes, that has me leaning that way, though I suppose they could be fakes.
How common are multiple suicide notes.

"Ah man, but what if some one doesn't get this note, I better make copies..."

How common are multiple suicide notes.

"Ah man, but what if some one doesn't get this note, I better make copies..."

It could have been notes addressed to different people.

It could have been notes addressed to different people.
Regardless.

Regardless.

its not unusual.

did you come over here because you couldnt take it any more?

are they usually smarter than this on myspace?

geeez reading it through makes me want to respond to your posts! your opponents really are into the murder-she-wrote theory of crime.

hahahahaha!

how bad is it (given my history here) that I came to NS for a more reasoned view of what actually happened! :eek:

I don´t know and I don´t care.
Another scum-filled freak down. More oxygen for the living.

If I were her, and I was about to kill myself, I'd have given that book of names to a bunch of media sources first. That's just the bastard I am though...

The Butler did it?

With the rope in the study?

Nah seriously, she had a lot more on her shoulders than just prison. She outed a LOT of powerful people who have a LOT to lose.

Yeah. I think if someone were trying to cover this up, chances are they'd probably take a more professional approach. Somehow I just don't see $GOVERNMENT_OFFICIAL hiring a hitman to have her hanged in her mother's toolshed. I think if they really wanted to throw us for the proverbial loop, they'd probably favor a more mysterious approach (i.e. they wouldn't 'just leave her hanging,' so to speak).

It can be either way really. A sudden vanishing could lead back to those who were linked to her, and would leave questions. A successfully faked murder as suicide would close the book, and given that she did have a lot to lose, would end the trail.

On one hand, she had a lot to lose by going to jail. On the other hand, the ones linked to her had a lot to lose if she talked about things in jail. So it can cut both ways.

I remember hearing in a psych class that women are more likely to try and commit suicide in less harsh/painful ways, such as pills. Men are more likely to take the violent approach and go with hanging, shooting, etc.

The amusing thing is that a drug overdose is a horrible way to die, far more so than hanging or shooting.