NationStates Jolt Archive


McCain decides we don't have enough enemies

Delator
01-05-2008, 06:28
Emphasis mine...

Amid the din of the dueling democrats, people seem to have forgotten about that other guy in the presidential race—you know, John McCain. McCain is said to be benefiting from this politically because his rivals are tearing each other apart. In fact, few people are paying much attention to what the Republican nominee is saying, or subjecting it to any serious scrutiny.

On March 26, McCain gave a speech on foreign policy in Los Angeles that was billed as his most comprehensive statement on the subject. It contained within it the most radical idea put forward by a major candidate for the presidency in 25 years. Yet almost no one noticed.

In his speech McCain proposed that the United States expel Russia from the G8, the group of advanced industrial countries. Moscow was included in this body in the 1990s to recognize and reward it for peacefully ending the cold war on Western terms, dismantling the Soviet empire and withdrawing from large chunks of the old Russian Empire as well. McCain also proposed that the United States should expand the G8 by taking in India and Brazil—but pointedly excluded China from the councils of power.

We have spent months debating Barack Obama's suggestion that he might, under some circumstances, meet with Iranians and Venezuelans. It is a sign of what is wrong with the foreign-policy debate that this idea is treated as a revolution in U.S. policy while McCain's proposal has barely registered. What McCain has announced is momentous—that the United States should adopt a policy of active exclusion and hostility toward two major global powers. It would reverse a decades-old bipartisan American policy of integrating these two countries into the global order, a policy that began under Richard Nixon (with Beijing) and continued under Ronald Reagan (with Moscow). It is a policy that would alienate many countries in Europe and Asia who would see it as an attempt by Washington to begin a new cold war.

I write this with sadness because I greatly admire John McCain, a man of intelligence, honor and enormous personal and political courage. I also agree with much of what else he said in that speech in Los Angeles. But in recent years, McCain has turned into a foreign-policy schizophrenic, alternating between neoconservative posturing and realist common sense. His speech reads like it was written by two very different people, each one given an allotment of a few paragraphs on every topic.

The neoconservative vision within the speech is essentially an affirmation of ideology. Not only does it declare war on Russia and China, it places the United States in active opposition to all nondemocracies. It proposes a League of Democracies, which would presumably play the role that the United Nations now does, except that all nondemocracies would be cast outside the pale. The approach lacks any strategic framework. What would be the gain from so alienating two great powers? How would the League of Democracies fight terrorism while excluding countries like Jordan, Morocco, Egypt and Singapore? What would be the gain to the average American to lessen our influence with Saudi Arabia, the central banker of oil, in a world in which we are still crucially dependent on that energy source?

The single most important security problem that the United States faces is securing loose nuclear materials. A terrorist group can pose an existential threat to the global order only by getting hold of such material. We also have an interest in stopping proliferation, particularly by rogue regimes like Iran and North Korea. To achieve both of these core objectives—which would make American safe and the world more secure—we need Russian cooperation. How fulsome is that likely to be if we gratuitously initiate hostilities with Moscow? Dissing dictators might make for a stirring speech, but ordinary Americans will have to live with the complications after the applause dies down.

To reorder the G8 without China would be particularly bizarre. The G8 was created to help coordinate problems of the emerging global economy. Every day these problems multiply—involving trade, pollution, currencies—and are in greater need of coordination. To have a body that attempts to do this but excludes the world's second largest economy is to condemn it to failure and irrelevance. International groups are not cheerleading bodies but exist to help solve pressing global crises. Excluding countries won't make the problems go away.

McCain appears to think that he can magically unite the two main strands in the Republican foreign-policy establishment. But he can't. This is not about personalities but about two philosophically divergent views of international affairs. Put together, they will produce infighting and incoherence. We have seen this movie before. We have watched an American president unable to choose between his ideologically driven vice president and his pragmatic secretary of State—and the result was the catastrophe of George W. Bush's first term. Twenty-five years earlier, we watched another president who believed that he could encompass the entire spectrum of foreign policy. He, too, gave speeches that were drafted by advisers with divergent world views: in that case, Cyrus Vance and Zbigniew Brzezinski. It led to the paralyzing internal battles of the Carter years. Does John McCain want to try this experiment one more time?

http://www.fareedzakaria.com/articles/articles.html

It's too bad that the Dems haven't wrapped things up already...stuff like this ought to be enough to end a presidential campaign, but the media is too busy to care.

Any potential argument that McCain would be a better choice in terms of foreign policy than Obama or Clinton just went right out the window. He would intentonally alienate two world powers at a time when our military is already overextended and our economy is on a downturn. That's not smart leadership, and it's certainly not going to help America in the world of international politics.

Your thoughts?
Honsria
01-05-2008, 06:30
yeah, I really don't know what to think of the man, most of the debates that he had were on things that he didn't have a clear handle on (economy), or things where his rhetoric was enough to satisfy the powderpuff moderators (defense). The primary should be interesting, and possibly very scary.
Straughn
01-05-2008, 06:33
What a time for the guy to pull that one.
Skalvia
01-05-2008, 06:34
Welcome to Republicans...
Pepe Dominguez
01-05-2008, 06:48
None of that amounts to "war" against Russia or China. It's symbolic, and wouldn't mean much to either. The Russians take bigger slaps at us on a regular basis. That's in their culture.
Gauthier
01-05-2008, 07:28
I said it before and I'll say it again, voting for McCain is voting for at least 4 More Years of Bushevism. Right down to the alienation of the rest of the world.
Delator
01-05-2008, 07:30
None of that amounts to "war" against Russia or China. It's symbolic, and wouldn't mean much to either. The Russians take bigger slaps at us on a regular basis. That's in their culture.

Symbolic or not, it's not a smart idea.

Is Russia trying to get us booted from the G8? No? Then please enlighten me as to what these "bigger slaps" are.
Honsria
01-05-2008, 07:30
I said it before and I'll say it again, voting for McCain is voting for at least 4 More Years of Bushevism. Right down to the alienation of the rest of the world.

I don't want to pile on here, but McCain is freaking creepy. Like, Cheney level creepy...
Gauthier
01-05-2008, 07:46
I don't want to pile on here, but McCain is freaking creepy. Like, Cheney level creepy...

And do you want a President who has a "spiritual advisor" who has openly called for the extermination of Islam placed in charge of the Middle East powderkeg?
New Ausha
01-05-2008, 07:47
None of that amounts to "war" against Russia or China. It's symbolic, and wouldn't mean much to either. The Russians take bigger slaps at us on a regular basis. That's in their culture.

I have too agree with this point. Putin is an ego-maniacal wanna-be "iron man" of Russia, using the oh so popular strategy of hiding his many flaws and errors pertaining to repression of the media and the occupation of Chechan lands, amoung other economic concerns, by pointing towards US imperialism. Though we have stepped forward as the new age imperial power, and have done so quite aggresively, I must say, McCains plan would antagonize Russia. But then again, what was thier hissy fit over the missile defence bases in Eastern Europe about? Its national prestige, the only thing Russia has left for itself, that would be wounded. Of course they would try and rally around this, but I highly doubt any modernized nation is going to follow the ex-Soviet Empire into any sort of boycott of Russia's exclusion from G8.

Concerning China, Hillary Clinton has taken equally hostile stances towards the occupation of Tibet. It was either Obama or Clinton that suggested boycotting the Beijing Olympics, if I recall correctly. I don't use this as some sort of attack fodder on these fellows, i'd just like to point out, that this is not a basis for a campaign ending speech, by any means, on McCains part. It needs to be re-vamped too be more favourable too China, but thats about it.
Indri
01-05-2008, 07:49
Expel Russia and exclude China but include India? Is he mad? China and India are the big league newbies, better to get them under your wing before someone else or let them go it alone.
AwateaDawn
01-05-2008, 07:58
I honestly don't know what he is aiming for. China and Russia are the other super powers of the world and China is advancing quickly. By alienating them and supposedly leaguing with India he /is/ using the G8 (which can't be 8 now...) as another alliance system...

And if you look back at historic wars the gathering of allies usually preceeds a war or at least a strong hostile stalemate if my memory serves me.

All of this seems a little backward considering the amount of resources in Irac and Afganhistan at the moment and considering 'local' economic difficulties. And this list doesn't include how I'll be surprised if the majority of the world want another war of a grand scale.

I really don't know what he is thinking... but in my mind he isn't thinking straight. 'Guns blazing America' is not what the world needs.
greed and death
01-05-2008, 08:17
It is the choice.

Republican president hostile toward Russia

Democrats tend to be hostile toward China.

I trace it to that it was a republican president who first made thigns smooth with china(Nixon) and a Democrat that first made things smooth with Soviet Russia (Carter).
Cameroi
01-05-2008, 08:22
what i don't understand about mccain is why anyone but the corporate mafia would want him, and why anyone would want the corporate mafia, except maybe itself.

=^^=
.../\...
Delator
02-05-2008, 06:02
*bump*
greed and death
02-05-2008, 06:14
I honestly don't know what he is aiming for. China and Russia are the other super powers of the world and China is advancing quickly. By alienating them and supposedly leaguing with India he /is/ using the G8 (which can't be 8 now...) as another alliance system...

And if you look back at historic wars the gathering of allies usually preceeds a war or at least a strong hostile stalemate if my memory serves me.

All of this seems a little backward considering the amount of resources in Irac and Afganhistan at the moment and considering 'local' economic difficulties. And this list doesn't include how I'll be surprised if the majority of the world want another war of a grand scale.

I really don't know what he is thinking... but in my mind he isn't thinking straight. 'Guns blazing America' is not what the world needs.

India is also advancing quickly. and I put my money on India in the long term because the 1 child policy will lead to a premature shift in the population pyramid to a older population. which is normally what causes industrialized nations to fall behind.
Straughn
02-05-2008, 06:19
*bump*
*blinks*
What?
Intangelon
02-05-2008, 06:24
It is the choice.

Republican president hostile toward Russia

Democrats tend to be hostile toward China.

I trace it to that it was a republican president who first made thigns smooth with china(Nixon) and a Democrat that first made things smooth with Soviet Russia (Carter).

Uh, what? You're off your rocker if you believe that. How was, say, boycotting the Moscow Olympics and stalling on SALT II while peacemaking between Egypt and Israel making things "smooth" with Russia? Things have NEVER been smooth with Russia.
greed and death
02-05-2008, 06:51
Uh, what? You're off your rocker if you believe that. How was, say, boycotting the Moscow Olympics and stalling on SALT II while peacemaking between Egypt and Israel making things "smooth" with Russia? Things have NEVER been smooth with Russia.

boycotting Moscow was in response to the invasion of Afghanistan.
Salt II delays were mostly so Carter could capitalize on it for his reelection campaign, also it was hoped a senate would be elected that might ratify it; of course it back fired when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. The treaty though signed was never ratified and was withdrawn in 1986.
Heikoku
02-05-2008, 07:02
Let's hope the media remembers this when the actual presidential campaign starts.
Gauthier
02-05-2008, 07:08
Let's hope the media remembers this when the actual presidential campaign starts.

When the only outlet that highlighted the "Ex-ter-mi-nate teh ebil moslemz" rant of McCain's "spiritual advisor" Rod Parsley is public television, don't expect much out of "the liberal media".
Heikoku
02-05-2008, 15:38
When the only outlet that highlighted the "Ex-ter-mi-nate teh ebil moslemz" rant of McCain's "spiritual advisor" Rod Parsley is public television, don't expect much out of "the liberal media".

I said "hope" for a reason.

The same reason I didn't say "expect". :(
Knights of Liberty
02-05-2008, 16:11
I write this with sadness because I greatly admire John McCain, a man of intelligence, honor and enormous personal and political courage.



Asking "how high" before you jump when the right wing tells you to is political courage?



Wow, Im the bravest man in politics then...
Knights of Liberty
02-05-2008, 16:11
Let's hope the media remembers this when the actual presidential campaign starts.




The Democratic party will at least. Theyve already set their corsshairs on him.
Khadgar
02-05-2008, 16:39
Asking "how high" before you jump when the right wing tells you to is political courage?



Wow, Im the bravest man in politics then...

He used to be a good man. Kind of sad really.
Heikoku
02-05-2008, 16:59
He used to be a good man. Kind of sad really.

That's what the Republican Party does.
Ardchoille
03-05-2008, 01:52
*sigh* Next time, folks, dump this sort of thing in the Issues thread, please.