NationStates Jolt Archive

A local school district has been in a legal battle with a friend of mine for a while now. Recently a group of students from that school district showed up at the capitol trying to get lawmakers to pass a law that would effectively shut down most special education programs in small towns. It would make it hard or impossible for a parent to sue the school district if their child was not recieving an education that is federally mandated through IDEA (Individuals with disabilities education act)

http://www.koco.com/news/16058732/detail.html

I have written letters to......just about everyone, but all I get back is basically "oh, yeah, we feel sorry for special ed kids and stuff but they aren't our priority".

I wonder what NSG thinks. Should schools have to follow federal law? Should parents be allowed to sue if they don't? Do children with disabilities deserve an education?

My children are covered under IDEA, but the school would not accommodate them and their physical needs, I didn't have enough money to sue, so I homeschool. I often hear from individuals that public school is able to accommodate them. They aren't willing though, and certainly won't be more inclined if this law passes.

I think kids with massive disabilities should go to their own schools.

I think kids with massive disabilities should go to their own schools.
What about children with mild disabilities? What constitutes a massive disability? Why would they have to go to their own school?

What about children with mild disabilities? What constitutes a massive disability? Why would they have to go to their own school?

Things like dyslexia and ADD aren't that big of a deal, and are easily corrected.

Retarded kids should go to their own schools because:

1. They get picked on
2. They can't keep up with normal kids
3. They are in the way

I've been on both ends as a special ed student and a special ed paraprofessional (fancy term for a class room aid essentially). Yes, the schools should be required to follow federal law and parents should (and do) have the right to sue. Smunk, have you tried contacting the ACLU or the relevant disability advocate groups? You might be able to get a lawyer willing to work pro-bono. Even if you want to continue homeschooling the kids you might be able to get your local school district to pay for any associated costs of doing so.

Things like dyslexia and ADD aren't that big of a deal, and are easily corrected.

Retarded kids should go to their own schools because:

1. They get picked on
2. They can't keep up with normal kids
3. They are in the way

This isn't even just about the "retarded" kids as you call them, but about all kids with disabilities in my state, physical, mental and emotional. Federal law says the public school has to accommodate them.

I'd like to add that if the school district is not following the law, then yes, the school district should be sued and forced to follow the law.

Perhaps the law should be changed though, giving special ed kids their own schools. Or maybe even their own building next to the main school, or something along those lines.

I've been on both ends as a special ed student and a special ed paraprofessional (fancy term for a class room aid essentially). Yes, the schools should be required to follow federal law and parents should (and do) have the right to sue. Smunk, have you tried contacting the ACLU or the relevant disability advocate groups? You might be able to get a lawyer willing to work pro-bono. Even if you want to continue homeschooling the kids you might be able to get your local school district to pay for any associated costs of doing so.

I'm not entirely sure if he has contacted the ACLU, but I might, I didn't even think of it actually. It was easier just to pull them out of school and bitch and whine to everyone and their dog about the situation, but it's getting scary serious now. Before I went to school board meetings and bemoaned the sad state of affairs, now they are trying to make it legal. Scary stuff.

I'd like to add that if the school district is not following the law, then yes, the school district should be sued and forced to follow the law.

Perhaps the law should be changed though, giving special ed kids their own schools. Or maybe even their own building next to the main school, or something along those lines.

So . . . you're saying that special ed students should have schools that are separate, but equal?

Things like dyslexia and ADD aren't that big of a deal, and are easily corrected.Fuck you.

I don't think I have ever said that to anyone before, even on the internet, but no one has ever said anything this stupid in front of me.

This issue hits very close to home for me. I have a mild disability most would not notice, and my sister has a more serious one. Both of us have had trouble getting a normal education, even though we live in an upper middle class liberal town that is supposed to have good public schools. The biggest problem is teachers who think they can disobey the law. They think they can refuse to accommodate special needs, or even refuse to teach an autistic kid altogether, just because they don't feel like it. I understand that teachers aren't paid much and they're overworked, but this isn't about THEM. It's about teaching students.

A local school district has been in a legal battle with a friend of mine for a while now. Recently a group of students from that school district showed up at the capitol trying to get lawmakers to pass a law that would effectively shut down most special education programs in small towns. It would make it hard or impossible for a parent to sue the school district if their child was not recieving an education that is federally mandated through IDEA (Individuals with disabilities education act)

http://www.koco.com/news/16058732/detail.html

I have written letters to......just about everyone, but all I get back is basically "oh, yeah, we feel sorry for special ed kids and stuff but they aren't our priority".

I wonder what NSG thinks. Should schools have to follow federal law? Should parents be allowed to sue if they don't? Do children with disabilities deserve an education?

My children are covered under IDEA, but the school would not accommodate them and their physical needs, I didn't have enough money to sue, so I homeschool. I often hear from individuals that public school is able to accommodate them. They aren't willing though, and certainly won't be more inclined if this law passes.

Just kill em all and save the social order and gene pool. Social Darwinism is the answer for most of the worlds problems. For a retrospect, look at Idiocracy. Good movie that foretells the future if we allow the intelligent people to be eradicated by idiots and "Special Ed" guys.

I'd like to add that if the school district is not following the law, then yes, the school district should be sued and forced to follow the law.

Perhaps the law should be changed though, giving special ed kids their own schools. Or maybe even their own building next to the main school, or something along those lines.

Why would you segregate them though? I'm still not understanding. It's actually against the law now to do so. They are supposed to be educated in the general population as much as possible.

Recently, a group of students from that school district showed up at the capitol trying to get lawmakers to pass a law that would effectively shut down most special education programs in small towns. It would make it hard or impossible for a parent to sue the school district if their child was not recieving an education that is federally mandated through IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities Education Act)

My understanding of the United States Constitution's Supremacy Clause holds that federal law is superior to state law. While this has its downsides (users of medical marijuana are liable to prosecution even in states where it's legal) I feel that a federal court might use it in this circumstance to assure your children a federally mandated education, or even throw out this law altogether if it does somehow pass, God forbid.

Why would you segregate them though? I'm still not understanding. It's actually against the law now to do so. They are supposed to be educated in the general population as much as possible.

yes just like band students can go to schools that focus on music, or Science students can go to schools that focus on Science and engineering like mine school was. there is a difference between need separating based off of race, gender, and religion and separating off of the need/desire of the student.

Special ed students do have their own schools. Where do you think they go when they are kicked out of the normal schools?

Most of these special ed schools are horrendous. For most schools, special education only means reduced standards. In many schools, the teachers have the authority to restrain students. They abuse that authority. If you disagree with anything, they get several men to knock you on the floor. Imagine being 6 years old, autistic, barely aware of the English language, and someone pins you to the ground whenever you don't understand anything.

Honestly, as current junior at a public high school, there is a certain degree to which the fact that certain small segments of students receive disproportionately more instructor attention and resources than dozens of overcrowded classes with thirty-five kids (or more at times) irks me. While I recognize that special ed students require different and, typically, more focused, personalized attention, I sometimes feel a quasi-reverse discrimination when I consider how much a school district is willing to invest in their special education programs so as to avoid lawsuits when the larger body of tax-payers whose children attend regular or advanced classes must foot the bill for such lawsuits and the cover the cost equally of running a school and yet children other than their own are receiving a larger portion of their money.

Perhaps the utilitarian argument would be that spending for special education as compared to regular programs should be proportional to the number of students in each; perhaps it already is and I don't know what I'm whining about, but I don't run the school district, so i would know the facts; these were mostly my perceptions/observations.

On a side note, one common instance in which special education has directly impacted my high school experience in a negative way is when moderately functional special education kids peruse extracurricular club meetings during the lunch hour and disrupt them with announcements such as "Today is Algebra Day!" when the day has no real significance and "We're going on a field trip, everybody" when we aren't. Typically everyone humors them and there is no problem, but to be blunt, it shouldn't be the average student's responsiblity to socialize special-ed kids. At least at my school, we have a club where regular students make friends with them and "do activities" but perhaps I'm making a mountain out of a molehill...

blah, blah, blah...

yes just like band students can go to schools that focus on music, or Science students can go to schools that focus on Science and engineering like mine school was. there is a difference between need separating based off of race, gender, and religion and separating off of the need/desire of the student.

You would segregate someone based on a disability? I still guess I don't understand. I don't see the need for them to be segregated. IDEA covers all kinds of disabilities, food allergies, autism spectrum disorders, learning disabilities, physical disabilities. I don't think all those kids should be segregated.

So . . . you're saying that special ed students should have schools that are separate, but equal?

If they are actual equal, there is no problem. I'm thinking more they should have their on building, or wing of the school, and kept away from the normal kids as much as possible- so they aren't teased and in the way.

Fuck you.

I don't think I have ever said that to anyone before, even on the internet, but no one has ever said anything this stupid in front of me.

This issue hits very close to home for me. I have a mild disability most would not notice, and my sister has a more serious one. Both of us have had trouble getting a normal education, even though we live in an upper middle class liberal town that is supposed to have good public schools. The biggest problem is teachers who think they can disobey the law. They think they can refuse to accommodate special needs, or even refuse to teach an autistic kid altogether, just because they don't feel like it. I understand that teachers aren't paid much and they're overworked, but this isn't about THEM. It's about teaching students.

If most people wouldn't notice it, then there isn't much problem now, is there?

Most teachers aren't trained to handle special ed kids. Thats why they should have their schools, or section of schools where teachers are trained, and paid to teach them.

Why would you segregate them though? I'm still not understanding. It's actually against the law now to do so. They are supposed to be educated in the general population as much as possible.

See my response to vietnamsounds.

I think kids with massive disabilities should go to their own schools.

And you're proposal to circumvent Brown v. Board of Education is... ?

If they are actual equal, there is no problem. I'm thinking more they should have their on building, or wing of the school, and kept away from the normal kids as much as possible- so they aren't teased and in the way.
How abnormal is justified enough for quarantine?

If most people wouldn't notice it, then there isn't much problem now, is there?
I'm sure 100% of people would not notice my children's disability by looking at them or even having a short conversation with them, that doesn't mean it's not real, and it doesn't mean they don't need accommodation. They have very real needs that the school is legally obligated to meet, they did not and my daughter nearly died.

And you're proposal to circumvent Brown v. Board of Education is... ?

See my other posts, foo!

How abnormal is justified enough for quarantine?


I'm sure 100% of people would not notice my children's disability by looking at them or even having a short conversation with them, that doesn't mean it's not real, and it doesn't mean they don't need accommodation. They have very real needs that the school is legally obligated to meet, they did not and my daughter nearly died.

Uh, ones that run around like chickens...there is one at my former high school. Ones that slap people, interrupt, etc.

Say whaaaaaaaaaat?

How'd your kid almost die?!

Honestly, as current junior at a public high school, there is a certain degree to which the fact that certain small segments of students receive disproportionately more instructor attention and resources than dozens of overcrowded classes with thirty-five kids (or more at times) irks me. While I recognize that special ed students require different and, typically, more focused, personalized attention, I sometimes feel a quasi-reverse discrimination when I consider how much a school district is willing to invest in their special education programs so as to avoid lawsuits when the larger body of tax-payers whose children attend regular or advanced classes must foot the bill for such lawsuits and the cover the cost equally of running a school and yet children other than their own are receiving a larger portion of their money.Yep, that's how taxes work, people who need the money are supposed to get it. At least you're being honest about it, most people will not admit they see the world as some bizarre and bitter competition for attention and money.

Special ed students do have their own schools. Where do you think they go when they are kicked out of the normal schools?

Most of these special ed schools are horrendous. For most schools, special education only means reduced standards. In many schools, the teachers have the authority to restrain students. They abuse that authority. If you disagree with anything, they get several men to knock you on the floor. Imagine being 6 years old, autistic, barely aware of the English language, and someone pins you to the ground whenever you don't understand anything.

As someone who has worked in classrooms where restraining students was used I have never seen it used in the manner you describe. The only times I've seen restraining techniques used it was in response to a student that was reacting with violence, trying to charge, head butt, bite, or stab with a pencil or scissors for example. I have also never seen more than two staff restraining a student, and that was a student who was over six feet tall who could have easily over powered either of the staff members alone. Staff who use restraining techniques are supposed to be specially trained so that they can use the techniques without harming the students and so that they don't use them unless absolutely necessary. I'm not saying that the situation you described DOESN'T happen, but that is not how restraint is meant to be used.

Say whaaaaaaaaaat?

How'd your kid almost die?!

She had an anaphalaxic reaction to the play dough that they weren't supposed to use in the classroom which was stated on her IEP.

The teacher said they didn't "feel like" getting the proper play dough, and that it wasn't "fair" to the other kids to not play with play dough, and that I should "just keep her home" if I didn't like it.

If they are actual equal, there is no problem.

I'm sorry, but this was rather disconcerting. Brown v. Board of Education ruled that "separate education facilities are inherently unequal," regardless of equal funding or anything else that might give the illusion of equality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_v._Board_of_Education

Fuck you.

I don't think I have ever said that to anyone before, even on the internet, but no one has ever said anything this stupid in front of me.

This issue hits very close to home for me. I have a mild disability most would not notice, and my sister has a more serious one. Both of us have had trouble getting a normal education, even though we live in an upper middle class liberal town that is supposed to have good public schools. The biggest problem is teachers who think they can disobey the law. They think they can refuse to accommodate special needs, or even refuse to teach an autistic kid altogether, just because they don't feel like it. I understand that teachers aren't paid much and they're overworked, but this isn't about THEM. It's about teaching students.

Yes, trollgaard, fuck you. I spent SIX YEARS (second through seventh grade) in special education thanks to asperger's (which then they called first ADD and then ADHD). If their was a law similar to the one the troglodytes from smunkee's district aimed for, people like me wouldn't be college graduates -- we'd be burger flipping dropouts.

You also need to learn that there's as large difference betwee,m retarded people and people with add/adhd/asperger's -- in my case, (among other things) a few dozen IQ points.

My (adopted) sister is very mildly retarded. She goes to a normal school, but she is in a special class for people with disabilities. I used to be indifferent towards special needs people as far as education goes, mainly because it never was an issue for me. My sister made me realize however, that they need to have programs to help disabled people out.

She had an anaphalaxic reaction to the play dough that they weren't supposed to use in the classroom which was stated on her IEP.

The teacher said they didn't "feel like" getting the proper play dough, and that it wasn't "fair" to the other kids to not play with play dough, and that I should "just keep her home" if I didn't like it.

hmmmm

Teacher did wrong there.

Kids with rare and potentially dangerous allergies should have all their teachers notified about them so that doesn't happen. Like I said, your teacher did wrong there.

If they are actual equal, there is no problem. I'm thinking more they should have their on building, or wing of the school, and kept away from the normal kids as much as possible- so they aren't teased and in the way.I agree, they should do the same thing with the kikes. I'm sick of them being made fun of all the time and they just get in the way. I'd like to forget they even exist actually. Ugly kids need their own school also.

If most people wouldn't notice it, then there isn't much problem now, is there?Yes, it is a problem. It's a problem because it's prevented me from doing well in school and in life. I seem normal enough so most people probably attribute it to laziness, but people who have actually done neurological tests on me know better. It becomes an even bigger problem because most people are not convinced that I have a problem at all. Last time I brought it up with a professor, I told him he didn't have to do anything extra, but I thought he should know about it in case it becomes an issue later. He exploded and said I don't deserve "special treatment." Then he dropped me from the class. I didn't even ASK for any unusual treatment. And if I had asked for it, it would have been illegal for him to refuse it. Unfortunately I can't waste my time suing every jerk I meet.

Most teachers aren't trained to handle special ed kids. Thats why they should have their schools, or section of schools where teachers are trained, and paid to teach them.Most of the time, training isn't needed. The only thing that is needed is for teachers to go along with the student's individualized education plan. I have had teachers who refuse to even read the damn thing.

You would segregate someone based on a disability? I still guess I don't understand. I don't see the need for them to be segregated. IDEA covers all kinds of disabilities, food allergies, autism spectrum disorders, learning disabilities, physical disabilities. I don't think all those kids should be segregated.
Food allergies, physical disabilities in most cases no, except maybe for the blind or deaf needing to attend schools that teach in braille and sign language. Physical Disabilities are really a different matter then mental and learning problems.

if there disruptive to the school yes. for instance a special kid that was about 6'2" and though he was a police officer or thought it was a game. It was amusing seeing him point is fingers as a gun at people it however was less amusing when he would randomly tackle smaller people and proclaim they were under arrest. Also there was the one incident where me and 2 other students had to rush out of class and into the special ed class (we could see inside the class from our class room) and yank him off the special ed teacher because she had upset him and decided she was under arrest.

Also if centralized facilities provided better education and care why would someone not want their child to go there.

She had an anaphalaxic reaction to the play dough that they weren't supposed to use in the classroom which was stated on her IEP.

The teacher said they didn't "feel like" getting the proper play dough, and that it wasn't "fair" to the other kids to not play with play dough, and that I should "just keep her home" if I didn't like it.

And how did the principal and/or the superintendent react when you went to them with this information? This teacher needs to be fired NOW before she succeeds at killing a student because they didn't "feel like" paying attention to a kids allergy information.

She had an anaphalaxic reaction to the play dough that they weren't supposed to use in the classroom which was stated on her IEP.

The teacher said they didn't "feel like" getting the proper play dough, and that it wasn't "fair" to the other kids to not play with play dough, and that I should "just keep her home" if I didn't like it.That's... mean. Sounds like that teacher wanted to purposefully kill her.

It reminds me of the time my sister's elementary school gave her several bottles of coke. My sister was a hyperactive little kid who was not allowed to have coke, so this just wasn't good. I am pretty sure they did this on purpose. The same school also "forgot" her and abandoned her in a parking lot after a field trip consisting of 6 kids.

Yes, trollgaard, fuck you. I spent SIX YEARS (second through seventh grade) in special education thanks to asperger's (which then they called first ADD and then ADHD). If their was a law similar to the one the troglodytes from smunkee's district aimed for, people like me wouldn't be college graduates -- we'd be burger flipping dropouts.

You also need to learn that there's as large difference betwee,m retarded people and people with add/adhd/asperger's -- in my case, (among other things) a few dozen IQ points.

Bah, fuck you to then.

I know there is a difference, and if you read my posts I stated there should be differentiation on levels of disabilty.

But, entirely separate schools seems out of the question. So maybe their own section of a school, with their own teachers, with minimal interaction with the rest of the students- to reduce the stress of the disabled kids by lowering the amount of teasing, and the stress of the normal kids by taking the burden of having to deal with the disabled kids off their shoulders.

Most of the time, training isn't needed. The only thing that is needed is for teachers to go along with the student's individualized education plan. I have had teachers who refuse to even read the damn thing.

30 students a class 3 classes on A day 3 classes on b day 6X30 = up to 180 individual education plans most teachers I know are swamped trying to come up with a teaching plan for each class much less adjusting to every student.

As someone who has worked in classrooms where restraining students was used I have never seen it used in the manner you describe. The only times I've seen restraining techniques used it was in response to a student that was reacting with violence, trying to charge, head butt, bite, or stab with a pencil or scissors for example. I have also never seen more than two staff restraining a student, and that was a student who was over six feet tall who could have easily over powered either of the staff members alone. Staff who use restraining techniques are supposed to be specially trained so that they can use the techniques without harming the students and so that they don't use them unless absolutely necessary. I'm not saying that the situation you described DOESN'T happen, but that is not how restraint is meant to be used.Yep, I'm aware of that. The reason my sister had to be sent to such a school in the first place is because she would slap teachers. But they did abuse their power over her, and she even says she was sexually assaulted. She only said that many years after the fact so nothing has been done about it.

A very timely post for me, as I'm subbing in a special ed classroom tomorrow.

As an educator, I absolutely believe that schools should be required to serve the needs of special education students. I think we need a LOT more money to do this, but we need more money for everything. Students who are physically able to attend school have a right to a free and appropriate education that works with their level of ability. I would absolutely continue to protest the ruling of your friend's school. Good for you.

Its a good thing the teachers are specialized for my sister and the kids arn't mean little snots to her (as kids can be). Just to let ya know, the kids like her and the teacher is great. If they (mainly the teacher) harmed her in any way, I'd make them pay, one way or another. I'm very protective of my family, so its a good thing (for me and the potential harmer) noone has ever threatened or harmed them.

30 students a class 3 classes on A day 3 classes on b day 6X30 = up to 180 individual education plans most teachers I know are swamped trying to come up with a teaching plan for each class much less adjusting to every student.Only speds have individualized education plans. Sometimes these plans have really trivial things like "allow the student to use laptop with speech software" and it still becomes a huge freaking controversy. Sometimes they have things that require more effort like going over and explaining the homework to the student, but so what?

A very timely post for me, as I'm subbing in a special ed classroom tomorrow.

As an educator, I absolutely believe that schools should be required to serve the needs of special education students.

The only problem I have is when it's carried too far. For example my mother in law (also a special ed parapro) once worked with a teenage girl who had been in an irreversible coma since birth, wheeling her comatose body from one class to another. Also there seems to the misconception that the phrase "any child can learn" means "any child can learn calculus". I once worked with a 9 year old girl who was at a pre-K level yet the school (and her mother) wanted to mainstream her into a typical third grade classroom. Between her inability to do the work and some of the behavioral problems that children with Williams Syndrome are prone to that was not a very successful experiment.

<edit: I would class the later as not actually meeting the students needs, and the former as actually being a rare case of not HAVING educational needs to meet. Someone in a coma belongs in a hospital, not a school.>

Only speds have individualized education plans. Sometimes these plans have really trivial things like "allow the student to use laptop with speech software" and it still becomes a huge freaking controversy.

One child I worked with had in his IEP "must be accompanied by his one on one paraprofessional or the special education teacher at all times" and the PE teacher refused to let me stay in PE with the kid until I contacted the Special Ed teacher (who was unfortunately off campus for lunch during his PE class) and she reamed him out for violating the IEP.

Only speds have individualized education plans. Sometimes these plans have really trivial things like "allow the student to use laptop with speech software" and it still becomes a huge freaking controversy. Sometimes they have things that require more effort like going over and explaining the homework to the student, but so what?

what back water school doesn't allow laptops. Sorry if most don't the last 2 years of my highschool education was in a magnet school and we all had laptops to use for notes/ETC if we wanted.

The problem I have with Asspatty's or whatever its called, is that from my limited experince, is that they get special treatment, don't get in the same trouble as other students would for the same action. There is one in my class. Two years ago in shop class, we were all making DVD cases. Another student was standing across from him working, and he used the nailgun. The blast of air out the top hit the person with aspergers in the face. So, The aspie picks up a board and hits in as hard as he could on the head. which thankful isn't hard because he doesn't have any physical strength to speak of. The staff demands we treat him equally, and that he's just like the rest of us, but at the same they treat him differently and give him speical treatment.

The problem I have with Asspatty's or whatever its called, is that from my limited experince, is that they get special treatment, don't get in the same trouble as other students would for the same action. There is one in my class. Two years ago in shop class, we were all making DVD cases. Another student was standing across from him working, and he used the nailgun. The blast of air out the top hit the person with aspergers in the face. So, The aspie picks up a board and hits in as hard as he could on the head. which thankful isn't hard because he doesn't have any physical strength to speak of. The staff demands we treat him equally, and that he's just like the rest of us, but at the same they treat him differently and give him speical treatment.

Yup.

Especially with Aspergers or whatever kids. There was one kid I remember that needed damn horse tranquilizers....

Fuck you.

I don't think I have ever said that to anyone before, even on the internet, but no one has ever said anything this stupid in front of me.

This issue hits very close to home for me. I have a mild disability most would not notice, and my sister has a more serious one. Both of us have had trouble getting a normal education, even though we live in an upper middle class liberal town that is supposed to have good public schools. The biggest problem is teachers who think they can disobey the law. They think they can refuse to accommodate special needs, or even refuse to teach an autistic kid altogether, just because they don't feel like it. I understand that teachers aren't paid much and they're overworked, but this isn't about THEM. It's about teaching students.

I agree and disagree with you. I was diagnosed with ADHD Inattentive Type at 7, and my parents battled the school district up until high school before they finally conformed to my 504 accomodations. I was called lazy and stupid by more than one teacher; my sixth grade teacher said that a classmate and I didn't belong in the GATE class because we weren't smart enough (even though all of our testing showed we were well above the threshold of gifted). It was horrible.

I blame the teachers that said those things to me, but I also blame the administrations that fought me, the districts and the whole under-budgeted, under-informed public school system. It's one of the reasons I became a teacher, to turn the negative experiences I had into positive ones for other students.

More than malice and laziness, though, I realize now that my teachers' attitudes reflected a great ignorance, one that is hopefully being corrected with mandatory workshops and stricter credentialing guidelines.Until you've been in a classroom with 30 students who run the gamut from genius IQ to learning disabled to EL level 1 to behaviorally and emotionally disturbed, you have no idea how overwhelming it can be. And too many teachers go in without any idea of how to work with students with differing abilities, because they've never been taught. I got my credential this year, and I took one class on special populations that covered, in 10 classes, everything from ALS to ADHD to GATE to autism. We've got to spend more time training teachers in specific disabilities and teaching techniques and we've got to send more funds to districts so that they can properly accomodate these children.

what back water school doesn't allow laptops. Sorry if most don't the last 2 years of my highschool education was in a magnet school and we all had laptops to use for notes/ETC if we wanted.I never went to a back water school, I live in an upper middle class suburb of massachusettes. My parents moved here specifically because of the schools. I was never allowed to use "electronics" without permission, but sometimes even permission isn't good enough. The problem I have with Asspatty's or whatever its called, is that from my limited experince, is that they get special treatment, don't get in the same trouble as other students would for the same action. There is one in my class. Two years ago in shop class, we were all making DVD cases. Another student was standing across from him working, and he used the nailgun. The blast of air out the top hit the person with aspergers in the face. So, The aspie picks up a board and hits in as hard as he could on the head. which thankful isn't hard because he doesn't have any physical strength to speak of. The staff demands we treat him equally, and that he's just like the rest of us, but at the same they treat him differently and give him speical treatment.Um, you didn't finish this story. Did the aspergers guy not get in trouble or something? And this doesn't even have to do with discrimination laws, you're just venting.

Yup.

Especially with Aspergers or whatever kids. There was one kid I remember that needed damn horse tranquilizers....Tranquilizers? So they put him on tranquilizers and he became... tranquilized? That must have been such a burden for you to put up with that.

I know plenty of people with Aspergers, many of whom are some of the coolest people I know. There's no reason why they can't be treated normally, as long as people understand that they need to expect some behavior from them which is not considered normal. It takes patience, and for a lot of people (especially teachers) they just don't have that patience. It also takes an effort on the part of the kid with aspergers, so I don't want to blame the system entirely, but it seems more likely that this is just an example of people not understanding something, and therefore being afraid of it and marginalizing what it does to people who are affected by it.

Tranquilizers? So they put him on tranquilizers and he became... tranquilized? That must have been such a burden for you to put up with that.

I said she needed tranquilizers. She never got them.

It was a royal pain in the ass.

I agree and disagree with you. I was diagnosed with ADHD Inattentive Type at 7, and my parents battled the school district up until high school before they finally conformed to my 504 accomodations. I was called lazy and stupid by more than one teacher; my sixth grade teacher said that a classmate and I didn't belong in the GATE class because we weren't smart enough (even though all of our testing showed we were well above the threshold of gifted). It was horrible.

I blame the teachers that said those things to me, but I also blame the administrations that fought me, the districts and the whole under-budgeted, under-informed public school system. It's one of the reasons I became a teacher, to turn the negative experiences I had into positive ones for other students.

More than malice and laziness, though, I realize now that my teachers' attitudes reflected a great ignorance, one that is hopefully being corrected with mandatory workshops and stricter credentialing guidelines.Until you've been in a classroom with 30 students who run the gamut from genius IQ to learning disabled to EL level 1 to behaviorally and emotionally disturbed, you have no idea how overwhelming it can be. And too many teachers go in without any idea of how to work with students with differing abilities, because they've never been taught. I got my credential this year, and I took one class on special populations that covered, in 10 classes, everything from ALS to ADHD to GATE to autism. We've got to spend more time training teachers in specific disabilities and teaching techniques and we've got to send more funds to districts so that they can properly accomodate these children.Yes, I agree, it is the whole system. I didn't mention it because it's usually my parents who fight the system, and I have to deal with the weird teachers. I go to the same meetings my parents go to sometimes, and they are a nightmare. The last one was just a constant screaming match from both sides.

Ignorance is a problem in public schools. 10 years ago, my sister was the FIRST special needs student that particular elementary school had ever had. By now they have had many students like that, and they have learned from their mistakes. If the mistakes had been avoided in the first place, she may still be in public school, working at her grade level as she used to.

But, most of the grief I've gotten has been from special needs schools, where everyone is qualified to teach special needs. I have seen many things change for the better, but it's a painfully slow process.

I respect you a lot for becoming a teacher and trying to improve the state of education. I know that many special educators are young people who use the job as a springboard into the job they really wanted, so the few times when you see someone who is really into special education is cool.

hmmmm

Teacher did wrong there.

Kids with rare and potentially dangerous allergies should have all their teachers notified about them so that doesn't happen. Like I said, your teacher did wrong there.
She refused to follow the IEP, which if this law passed, she wouldn't have to and there would be nothing a parent could do about it. They could sue once, but if the school failed to comply after that, tough luck.

Food allergies, physical disabilities in most cases no, except maybe for the blind or deaf needing to attend schools that teach in braille and sign language. Physical Disabilities are really a different matter then mental and learning problems.

IDEA covers children with all of these disabilities. It even covered my husband in highschool, he has crohn's disease. He had an IEP and everything, as did I. It hits really close to home for us because every single person in our immediate family has a qualifying disability.
Also if centralized facilities provided better education and care why would someone not want their child to go there.
My child should not be segregated just because they are "inconvenient" for you. What happens when they are adults? Do you set up a workplace for them to go to that is separate but equal? Can they have their own libraries? Should they use their own water fountains? Oh! I have an idea, lets make a separate room in restaraunts for them! We could put a big sign up "abnormals sit here".
And how did the principal and/or the superintendent react when you went to them with this information? This teacher needs to be fired NOW before she succeeds at killing a student because they didn't "feel like" paying attention to a kids allergy information.
They said that I could hire a paraprofessional to follow her around and make sure her IEP is complied with. They would provide one once a month for free if I couldn't afford one.

hugbox, lol

I think kids with massive disabilities should go to their own schools.

Yea, I mean God forbid we actually treat kids with special needs as EQUALS!

Things like dyslexia and ADD aren't that big of a deal, and are easily corrected.

Retarded kids should go to their own schools because:

1. They get picked on
2. They can't keep up with normal kids
3. They are in the way

1. So does everyone else, who doesn't get picked on?
2. Then why are some special kids "Mainstreamed" into a regular classroom?
3. That's nice, real nice. When did you become a massive dick?

Just kill em all and save the social order and gene pool. Social Darwinism is the answer for most of the worlds problems. For a retrospect, look at Idiocracy. Good movie that foretells the future if we allow the intelligent people to be eradicated by idiots and "Special Ed" guys.

and we meet Massive Dick #2.

If they are actual equal, there is no problem. I'm thinking more they should have their on building, or wing of the school, and kept away from the normal kids as much as possible- so they aren't teased and in the way.

Yea, let's just put them in their own dark little corner and forget about them, and don't worry about treating them fairly, they're not equal like us. :rolleyes:. You really need to spend some time in a Special Ed classroom.

If most people wouldn't notice it, then there isn't much problem now, is there?

Not everyone has disabilities that are noticeable. One of my friend has Double Vision and from just simply looking at her you wouldn't be able to tell.

Most teachers aren't trained to handle special ed kids. Thats why they should have their schools, or section of schools where teachers are trained, and paid to teach them.

So when I was training to be a teacher, the fact that the school had a whole cirriculum on "Special Education" was just an illusion? Well I'll be damned!

She had an anaphalaxic reaction to the play dough that they weren't supposed to use in the classroom which was stated on her IEP.

The teacher said they didn't "feel like" getting the proper play dough, and that it wasn't "fair" to the other kids to not play with play dough, and that I should "just keep her home" if I didn't like it.

I would've sued her, sue the school, and the district.

Bah, fuck you to then.

I know there is a difference, and if you read my posts I stated there should be differentiation on levels of disabilty.

But you still prefer them to be put in their own corner and out of the way, right?

But, entirely separate schools seems out of the question. So maybe their own section of a school, with their own teachers, with minimal interaction with the rest of the students- to reduce the stress of the disabled kids by lowering the amount of teasing, and the stress of the normal kids by taking the burden of having to deal with the disabled kids off their shoulders.

God...that has GOT to be the STUPIDEST thing ANYONE has ever said! I mean MY GOD! GOD FORBID you actually step down from your high horse and interact with the disabled! Oh No, they might infect you with their disability and you'll become one of them! But no, we don't want you to have the "burden" of interacting with uncleans like us!

You know, if we've done things your way, I wouldn't be in Grad School right now, Hell I wouldn't even gone to college! Thanks to Special Education and due to the fact that I was integrated into a normal classroom, I was given the same opportunity as everyone else, and I made something of it. DESPITE MY HANDICAP!

So get your head out of your ass!

A local school district has been in a legal battle with a friend of mine for a while now. Recently a group of students from that school district showed up at the capitol trying to get lawmakers to pass a law that would effectively shut down most special education programs in small towns. It would make it hard or impossible for a parent to sue the school district if their child was not recieving an education that is federally mandated through IDEA (Individuals with disabilities education act)

http://www.koco.com/news/16058732/detail.html

I have written letters to......just about everyone, but all I get back is basically "oh, yeah, we feel sorry for special ed kids and stuff but they aren't our priority".

I wonder what NSG thinks. Should schools have to follow federal law? Should parents be allowed to sue if they don't? Do children with disabilities deserve an education?

My children are covered under IDEA, but the school would not accommodate them and their physical needs, I didn't have enough money to sue, so I homeschool. I often hear from individuals that public school is able to accommodate them. They aren't willing though, and certainly won't be more inclined if this law passes.

Rather than address this from a legal perspective, I want to respond from a policy perspective.

The other week I attended an individual education plan (iep). It was my first time. I was shocked by how much money was spent on this one student who was the opposite of gifted. I also heard from teachers about the disruptions caused by this child.

I am a fan of wheelchair accessability. I think there should be wheelchair accessability to schools and pretty much everywhere. However, I do not think that the same accomodations should be available for metal handicaps.

A school is there to teach our next generations of citizens. The focus should be on helping the next generations thrive. The focus should not be on helping those at the bottom. The focus should be on helping the ordinary and gifted students.

That being said, this does not seem to be the present objective of public education and the law is the law and it should be followed until it is changed.

Rather than address this from a legal perspective, I want to respond from a policy perspective.

The other week I attended an individual education plan (iep). It was my first time. I was shocked by how much money was spent on this one student who was the opposite of gifted. I also heard from teachers about the disruptions caused by this child.

I am a fan of wheelchair accessability. I think there should be wheelchair accessability to schools and pretty much everywhere. However, I do not think that the same accomodations should be available for metal handicaps.

A school is there to teach our next generations of citizens. The focus should be on helping the next generations thrive. The focus should not be on helping those at the bottom. The focus should be on helping the ordinary and gifted students.

That being said, this does not seem to be the present objective of public education and the law is the law and it should be followed until it is changed.

Why even teach the average? Do you know how stupid average is? Lets put all the kids who aren't lets say.....in the top 4% in their own school, we can give them coloring sheets! Make sure that those kids in the top 4% don't have any illness or genetic issues they would pass down either, because we can't have those types of people intermixing with us normal folks right?

Things like dyslexia and ADD aren't that big of a deal, and are easily corrected.

Retarded kids should go to their own schools because:

1. They get picked on
2. They can't keep up with normal kids
3. They are in the way

My kids were both "special ed" kids. My son has (had) dyslexia and dysgraphia. Special ed for him was a joke - they diagnosed him, had him bussed to special classes twice a week for three months and pronounced him "fixed." His problems were still there. I had him re-evaluated by an expensive specialist and petitioned for and got readmission to the special ed classes (He eventually graduated from high school with a 3.5 gpa in college prep courses and went on to become an electronics technician and later a police officer). My daughter's problems were slightly more difficult - she was an MGM (mentally gifted minor), but they wouldn't let her in MGM classes - reasons weren't given. Finally, in middle school they let her take one MGM class. They had no MGM classes in high school.

Not all special needs children are retarded.

My kids were both "special ed" kids. My son has (had) dyslexia and dysgraphia. Special ed for him was a joke - they diagnosed him, had him bussed to special classes twice a week for three months and pronounced him "fixed." His problems were still there. I had him re-evaluated by an expensive specialist and petitioned for and got readmission to the special ed classes (He eventually graduated from high school with a 3.5 gpa in college prep courses and went on to become an electronics technician and later a police officer). My daughter's problems were slightly more difficult - she was an MGM (mentally gifted minor), but they wouldn't let her in MGM classes - reasons weren't given. Finally, in middle school they let her take one MGM class. They had no MGM classes in high school.

Not all special needs children are retarded.

Yeah, maybe I should have defined "special needs" in the OP better. I see where most people don't understand the scope of it.

I think the problem here is Definition.

Most of those wanting to move the special ed kids to separate schools are not referring to students with ADD or the kid who studders. We are talking about the ones who will be in high school until they are 21 just because federal mandates they be allowed to attend school until they are 21 and their parents need the free babysitter as long as possible.

As for the guy with the gifted daughter, normally in high school they offer AP courses you could get your daughter into. And from my experience most states don't consider gifted special.

Fuck you. *snip the justifiable justification*

Yes, trollgaard, fuck you. *snip another justifiable justification*

I know that Trollgaard is abrasive and ham-fisted, and I completely agree with your sentiment. However, rising to flamebait and posting a flame is still a forum violation. I'd hate to see you Modded for a justifiable response to irrational provocation. Don't give him the satisfaction.

If most people wouldn't notice it, then there isn't much problem now, is there?

Ah, so your definition of a disability is one that makes you uncomfortable. Now we have confirmation of just how shallow you are, where before it was merely a suspicion.

Most teachers aren't trained to handle special ed kids. Thats why they should have their schools, or section of schools where teachers are trained, and paid to teach them.

Actually, all teachers in any accredited university teacher education program receive an Introduction to Exceptionalities (some kind of SPED 101) course designed to make ALL teachers aware of the variety of special needs students and how to address the challenges of mainstreaming them. Everything from the ADA to IEPs are covered, as well as types of disabilities. Ignorance, for any prospective teacher actually paying attention in their classes, is no excuse.

Bah, fuck you to then.

I know there is a difference, and if you read my posts I stated there should be differentiation on levels of disabilty.

But, entirely separate schools seems out of the question. So maybe their own section of a school, with their own teachers, with minimal interaction with the rest of the students- to reduce the stress of the disabled kids by lowering the amount of teasing, and the stress of the normal kids by taking the burden of having to deal with the disabled kids off their shoulders.

A return flame? Even you know better than that.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, TG. It sucks that you were inconvenienced by a school district with its head up its ass. There are many school districts, a majority in fact, who implement the requirements of the ADA and IDEA seamlessly and with great positive effect for the whole of the school community.

I had a moderate LD student in my choir. I treated him no differently than any other student. He always had a smile on his face and sometimes laughed at whatever I said, no matter what it was. I remember explaining that there were some times when it wasn't okay to laugh, and I explained it to him in front of the class like I would with any other disruptive kid. He got it, and we moved on. Turns out he was one of the strongest bass singers I ever had, and I still have the letter his mother wrote to me in thanks for making him part of the choir.

I will admit that I had to get over my own bout of being uncomfortable with someone who wouldn't pick up concepts the same way everyone else did. But once I figured out how to talk to him, how long he could take instruction before losing focus, and so forth, he was more productive in class than many of my "normal" male singers.

Point is, teachers who are dedicated to ALL of their education courses are indeed trained to deal with mainstream-able students. Those who don't tend to be prejudiced, uninformed, or just plain lazy (like Smunkee's play-doh idiot, who should be pimp-slapped and fired).

I think the problem here is Definition.

Most of those wanting to move the special ed kids to separate schools are not referring to students with ADD or the kid who studders. We are talking about the ones who will be in high school until they are 21 just because federal mandates they be allowed to attend school until they are 21 and their parents need the free babysitter as long as possible.

As for the guy with the gifted daughter, normally in high school they offer AP courses you could get your daughter into. And from my experience most states don't consider gifted special.

a. I'm not a guy
b. My daughter did go through a rough patch - even AP classes bored her. But she did graduate and go on to get a Masters in Publich Health/epidemiology. She's now a lieutenant in the Air Force, in charge of a public health unit.
c. States should consider gifted special. They're one of the most consistently ignored groups in the system. Because they're intelligent and bored they frequently get in trouble. Stupid kids aren't usually troublemakers.

For a retrospect, look at Idiocracy. Good movie that foretells the future if we allow the intelligent people to be eradicated by idiots and "Special Ed" guys.

That's my HUSBAND you're talking about. Just because people have problems doesn't mean they're stupid or a waste of space. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure my husband has more than a few IQ points on you.

What about children with mild disabilities? What constitutes a massive disability? Why would they have to go to their own school?
If you are able to function in school relatively normally, you should be able to go to school. In my highschool, the special ed kids had massive disabilities. Physical and mental and each one required a handler, so to say. They really shouldn't have been a general public school - they didn't go to any of the normal teachers or classes. There are some things that your generic public school shouldn't be dealing with.

This is what Speical Ed in Regular school strive for. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstreaming_in_education)

A local school district has been in a legal battle with a friend of mine for a while now. Recently a group of students from that school district showed up at the capitol trying to get lawmakers to pass a law that would effectively shut down most special education programs in small towns. It would make it hard or impossible for a parent to sue the school district if their child was not recieving an education that is federally mandated through IDEA (Individuals with disabilities education act)

http://www.koco.com/news/16058732/detail.html

I have written letters to......just about everyone, but all I get back is basically "oh, yeah, we feel sorry for special ed kids and stuff but they aren't our priority".

I wonder what NSG thinks. Should schools have to follow federal law? Should parents be allowed to sue if they don't? Do children with disabilities deserve an education?

My children are covered under IDEA, but the school would not accommodate them and their physical needs, I didn't have enough money to sue, so I homeschool. I often hear from individuals that public school is able to accommodate them. They aren't willing though, and certainly won't be more inclined if this law passes.

what an awful policy! they dont want to educate the kids who are hard to educate.

if this passes i sure hope the feds come down hard on them. thats just wrong.

I think kids with massive disabilities should go to their own schools.

Agreed. If parents are so desperate to have any child lacking in intellgience certified as "dyslexic/dyspraxic/choose a disorder any disorder" simply to compensate for a genetic attack of the stupids, I daresay all the government can do is send them to an establishment more suited to their abilities, or lack thereof.

They said that I could hire a paraprofessional to follow her around and make sure her IEP is complied with. They would provide one once a month for free if I couldn't afford one.

That's not even a paraprofessionals job! Even if it were it doesn't sound like your kid needed one, just a teacher that wouldn't break the law. If her IEP had mandated a parapro it would be the schools responsibility (not yours) to hire one who would be present DAILY not once a month. Did you argue with them on this or just pull your kids out?

I would've sued her, sue the school, and the district.

Now that I think about it, if the IEP said that exposing her to said play dough would endanger her life you may even have had cause to report this to the police as "attempted murder".

Rather than address this from a legal perspective, I want to respond from a policy perspective.

The other week I attended an individual education plan (iep). It was my first time. I was shocked by how much money was spent on this one student who was the opposite of gifted. I also heard from teachers about the disruptions caused by this child.

I am a fan of wheelchair accessability. I think there should be wheelchair accessability to schools and pretty much everywhere. However, I do not think that the same accomodations should be available for metal handicaps.

A school is there to teach our next generations of citizens.

Of which this student with an IEP is part. How did you come to attend this meeting? Are you a teacher or other staff member at the school?

What about children with mild disabilities? What constitutes a massive disability? Why would they have to go to their own school?

What constitutes a disability?

Here, because of Federal law, most of the kids in school have a Federally mandated Individual Education Plan (here, if you're merely getting bad grades, but can't get diagnosed for anything at all, ever, regardless of how many times they test for problems, you get one). Most of them are the result of the school's attempt to cover its ass (also, kids on the list don't have their scores count towards the yearly state school competency tests, so the school is polishing the apple). The school doesn't want to lose Federal funding, so they hand out IEPs and label kids as "disabled" because there's no downside to it.

Maybe you should move here.

Now that I think about it, if the IEP said that exposing her to said play dough would endanger her life you may even have had cause to report this to the police as "attempted murder".

Eh I dunno, I think reckless endangerment and neglect is more like it.

Just kill em all and save the social order and gene pool. Social Darwinism is the answer for most of the worlds problems. For a retrospect, look at Idiocracy. Good movie that foretells the future if we allow the intelligent people to be eradicated by idiots and "Special Ed" guys.

Though this may be a little extreme, and lacking in emotion, I am in agreement with the basis of it. To wholly deny survival of the fittest and allow potentially ruinious genetic defects to perpetuate themselves is massively irresponsible.

That's my HUSBAND you're talking about. Just because people have problems doesn't mean they're stupid or a waste of space. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure my husband has more than a few IQ points on you.

One shouldn't let petty emotions or the bonds of a relationship obstruct good sense, cold logic and prudence.

That's not even a paraprofessionals job! Even if it were it doesn't sound like your kid needed one, just a teacher that wouldn't break the law. If her IEP had mandated a parapro it would be the schools responsibility (not yours) to hire one who would be present DAILY not once a month. Did you argue with them on this or just pull your kids out?

I argued with them, argued with the school board, hired a lawyer, blah blah blah, at some point my kid was like "can't I just be homeschooled?" and I was like "sure, okay"

She was miserable at school anyway.

I remain unconvinced of the wisdom and efficacy of the federal government being involved in education and schools to begin with.

My children are covered under IDEA, but the school would not accommodate them and their physical needs, I didn't have enough money to sue, so I homeschool.

I hate to sound unsympathetic, but you've solved your problem on your own. Why would you even want the government to interfere?

Why even teach the average? Do you know how stupid average is? Lets put all the kids who aren't lets say.....in the top 4% in their own school, we can give them coloring sheets! Make sure that those kids in the top 4% don't have any illness or genetic issues they would pass down either, because we can't have those types of people intermixing with us normal folks right?

I think you missed my point. My point is that we as a society should be getting the biggest bang for our education tax dollars. You might be a little emotional about this because you have a child who is a special education student.

Although I too have personal and familial connections with special education, I really think that the system that is in place is too concerned with the well being of the special education students. I do not support anything that allows a student to cause major disruptions of other students' learning.

I think that our first priority should be on providing the best education to the greatest number of students possible. I do not think that this is an extreme or strange view. I think that the present policies are extreme.

Of which this student with an IEP is part. How did you come to attend this meeting? Are you a teacher or other staff member at the school?

I was there are part of my professional duties, I do not want to get into the particulars. I have my duties to perform. I may have problems with the way that special education impacts the education of other students, but my personal reservations do not interfere with my duties.

Here, because of Federal law, most of the kids in school have a Federally mandated Individual Education Plan (here, if you're merely getting bad grades, but can't get diagnosed for anything at all, ever, regardless of how many times they test for problems, you get one). Most of them are the result of the school's attempt to cover its ass (also, kids on the list don't have their scores count towards the yearly state school competency tests, so the school is polishing the apple). The school doesn't want to lose Federal funding, so they hand out IEPs and label kids as "disabled" because there's no downside to it.


I'd ask you for proof of this, but I probably wouldn't get it anymore than I got those videos of veterans being spit on at your local veterans hospital.

I was there are part of my professional duties, I do not want to get into the particulars. I have my duties to perform. I may have problems with the way that special education impacts the education of other students, but my personal reservations do not interfere with my duties.

Your professional duties as what?

I think you missed my point. My point is that we as a society should be getting the biggest bang for our education tax dollars. You might be a little emotional about this because you have a child who is a special education student.

Although I too have personal and familial connections with special education, I really think that the system that is in place is too concerned with the well being of the special education students. I do not support anything that allows a student to cause major disruptions of other students' learning.

I think that our first priority should be on providing the best education to the greatest number of students possible. I do not think that this is an extreme or strange view. I think that the present policies are extreme.

My children are special needs due to physical disabilities, they would not disturb the class.......except for if they were laying in the floor dying.

I don't see why they or any other student should be segregated unless they need to be. If public education is for everyone, then it should accommodate everyone. If it can't accommodate everyone then I'm kinda tired of hearing about how homeschooling should be illegal.

Physical disabilities and learning disabilities are far more common than most would guess. Most of them are of a nature that you wouldn't know by talking to the kid or looking at them, but they need help and the school is required by federal law to help them.

Just kill em all and save the social order and gene pool. Social Darwinism is the answer for most of the worlds problems. For a retrospect, look at Idiocracy. Good movie that foretells the future if we allow the intelligent people to be eradicated by idiots and "Special Ed" guys.

*grabs a set of pom-poms and cheers for Africaanes*

seriously, what does telling forest gump and friends that they can lead a normal life, actually do?
It just means that they can walk around like Fred Fredburger and everyone is basically held at gunpoint by liberal government laws that tell them that these walking potatoheads must be fully accepted 'or else'

The simple solution is mass sterilization, and an equally simple solution for sorting the good ones from the bad ones to determine which ones can stay with us till they grow old and die, and those that get the meat grinder

Those mentally disabled who can have their problems helped by counselling and/or medication, can stay, the rest get made into dog food

Those Physically disabled who can get along normally (like those born into wheelchair life but still look okay, or they just need a day in the plastic surgery operating room, can stay,...the ones who cant be repaired (severe cases like hunchbacks, midgets, and those that class under the old 'circus freak' ideal), go see meat grinder

that way, the 'good' ones can finish off their lives in the natural order, (and have as much sex as they like, who cares - they're steralized):D

My children are special needs due to physical disabilities, they would not disturb the class.......except for if they were laying in the floor dying.

I don't see why they or any other student should be segregated unless they need to be. If public education is for everyone, then it should accommodate everyone. If it can't accommodate everyone then I'm kinda tired of hearing about how homeschooling should be illegal.

Physical disabilities and learning disabilities are far more common than most would guess. Most of them are of a nature that you wouldn't know by talking to the kid or looking at them, but they need help and the school is required by federal law to help them.

I agree with everything you said in the above quote.

Your professional duties as what?

Why do you want to know? What does it matter?

*grabs a set of pom-poms and cheers for Africaanes*

Don't forget those homos - they're abnormal, too. And the Jews - why the hell can't they just sit down and accept being second class citizens? Tall people - abnormal, too. What about Gypsies? Why can't they act like normal people? And women with dysmeneorrah - if you're incapacitated three days out of the month, you're useless! Black folks? Don't look like normal people, toss 'em in the grinder with the rest. Pagans - see Jews.

See where this leads? Right into the crematorium - for everyone! once someone decides to enforce 'normality' (whatever the hell that is) where does it stop?

I wonder what NSG thinks. Should schools have to follow federal law?

Yes!

Should parents be allowed to sue if they don't?

Yes.

Do children with disabilities deserve an education?

Hell Yes!!

My children are covered under IDEA, but the school would not accommodate them and their physical needs, I didn't have enough money to sue, so I homeschool. I often hear from individuals that public school is able to accommodate them. They aren't willing though, and certainly won't be more inclined if this law passes.

And people wonder why homeschooling is becoming popular.

I'd like to add that if the school district is not following the law, then yes, the school district should be sued and forced to follow the law.

Perhaps the law should be changed though, giving special ed kids their own schools. Or maybe even their own building next to the main school, or something along those lines.

So you are advocating segregation then.

She had an anaphalaxic reaction to the play dough that they weren't supposed to use in the classroom which was stated on her IEP.

The teacher said they didn't "feel like" getting the proper play dough, and that it wasn't "fair" to the other kids to not play with play dough, and that I should "just keep her home" if I didn't like it.

When I tell my fiance this, she'll rail against said teacher.

Most teachers aren't trained to handle special ed kids. Thats why they should have their schools, or section of schools where teachers are trained, and paid to teach them.

Um...you do realize that they do offer special ed classes for education majors right?

Um...you do realize that they do offer special ed classes for education majors right?

I don't know if I should laugh or cry at that thought. :D That's messed up if only for the reason that we expect these people to be able to teach. (Unless you mean as a way to learn to conduct said classes)...

I don't know if I should laugh or cry at that thought. :D That's messed up if only for the reason that we expect these people to be able to teach. (Unless you mean as a way to learn to conduct said classes)...

Um Kryo? Some of my friends are SPED majors or SPED minors. They do discuss and teach more than classroom conduct. Hell...they teach you that for regular ELED and Secondary Ed as well.

Um Kryo? Some of my friends are SPED majors or SPED minors. They do discuss and teach more than classroom conduct. Hell...they teach you that for regular ELED and Secondary Ed as well.

I misread it as them being in actual classes to learn in those conditions.

Don't forget those homos - they're abnormal, too. And the Jews - why the hell can't they just sit down and accept being second class citizens? Tall people - abnormal, too. What about Gypsies? Why can't they act like normal people? And women with dysmeneorrah - if you're incapacitated three days out of the month, you're useless! Black folks? Don't look like normal people, toss 'em in the grinder with the rest. Pagans - see Jews.

See where this leads? Right into the crematorium - for everyone! once someone decides to enforce 'normality' (whatever the hell that is) where does it stop?


You dont understand. This poster agrees with everything you just accused him of. He hates blacks, gays, jews, etc.

Yes, schools should have to comply.

In a related story, the shit finally hit the fan at the private four-year college where my father works. He's been telling them for years they need to comply with federal standards with respect to accommodations for students with disabilities... and some kid finally filed a complaint. Federal investigators have been interviewing the staff now for weeks. I hope they go down, hard.

Of course, they'll probably try to scapegoat my dad. He's the Director of Counseling, which for no good reason puts him in charge of students with disabilities. (This school really likes to cut corners by writing positions that should require real expertise into someone else's job description.) But I say, let them try. He's radically underpaid... and like I said, for years he's been telling them to shape up. Telling them in emails and meeting minutes that he has well-documented. So let them try to scapegoat him. Seriously, just fire him already.

Wrongful termination lawsuit, here we come... maybe I'll have an inheritance, after all. :)

I went to a small private college prep school in America, so we didn't have a special education programme. My sister, however, goes to public school, and I have to say, they have a wonderful, wonderful programme. Whilst the special ed kids have their own classrooms and curriculum with IEPs, they also do a lot of socialising within the school, and each has a 'minder' assigned to him/her. They run a little cookie shop in the school, take messages from the office to the teachers and learn activities of daily living mostly. The director of the programme helped me a lot by providing examples of paperwork for me to bring back to Ghana with me.

In Ghana, where I work for three or four months a year, the special education system is deplorable and there's no attempt at mainstreaming, even once the kids are out of the school. The boarding school where I work has four 'full-time' teachers and two housemothers for seventy kids with special needs, mostly kids with Down's syndrome but also with severe autism, microcephaly, trisomy 9, et cetera. The school is set a few miles out of town and they try their best to keep the kids away from 'normal' society -- when one of the kids escapes -- and trust me, it happens -- it causes a huge uproar. A lot of the students haven't had physical examinations in their lives, some of the students shouldn't be there (we have kids with CP for God's sake), most of the time there isn't any actual teaching involved -- the kids need to just focus on vocational activities like tie-dyeing and batik because the unemployment rate in Ghana stands at around 24% at this point in time, so there aren't companies willing to hire kids with special needs. They even spend a huge part of their time trying to teach the kids English -- these kids aren't going to be working in the government, so they need to stick with Ewe.

tl;dr: Despite the problems with the system here, we're really, really lucky that we at least have people attempting to give a sense of normalcy to these kids.

And in regards to this thread, people need to stop being douchebags and realise that these kids have the same emotions as 'normal' kids, that they have the same rights as any other person and that they don't need your pity because that helps no one. They do, however, need empathy and understanding. You should be thankful that you don't have a disability and help people who do by avoiding the kind of idiocy you're putting forward here. Shame on you.

Tall people - abnormal, too.

people born taller than normal are okay, as long as they dont have that gigantism thing where they turn out like 'andre the giant' and are frigging huge but suffer SERIOUS arthritis very early in life

Very tall people will be useful when we start breeding Space Marines - they are already on the way to being 2 meter tall super soldiers:D

I went to a small private college prep school in America, so we didn't have a special education programme. My sister, however, goes to public school, and I have to say, they have a wonderful, wonderful programme. Whilst the special ed kids have their own classrooms and curriculum with IEPs, they also do a lot of socialising within the school, and each has a 'minder' assigned to him/her. They run a little cookie shop in the school, take messages from the office to the teachers and learn activities of daily living mostly. The director of the programme helped me a lot by providing examples of paperwork for me to bring back to Ghana with me.

In Ghana, where I work for three or four months a year, the special education system is deplorable and there's no attempt at mainstreaming, even once the kids are out of the school. The boarding school where I work has four 'full-time' teachers and two housemothers for seventy kids with special needs, mostly kids with Down's syndrome but also with severe autism, microcephaly, trisomy 9, et cetera. The school is set a few miles out of town and they try their best to keep the kids away from 'normal' society -- when one of the kids escapes -- and trust me, it happens -- it causes a huge uproar. A lot of the students haven't had physical examinations in their lives, some of the students shouldn't be there (we have kids with CP for God's sake), most of the time there isn't any actual teaching involved -- the kids need to just focus on vocational activities like tie-dyeing and batik because the unemployment rate in Ghana stands at around 24% at this point in time, so there aren't companies willing to hire kids with special needs. They even spend a huge part of their time trying to teach the kids English -- these kids aren't going to be working in the government, so they need to stick with Ewe.

tl;dr: Despite the problems with the system here, we're really, really lucky that we at least have people attempting to give a sense of normalcy to these kids.

And in regards to this thread, people need to stop being douchebags and realise that these kids have the same emotions as 'normal' kids, that they have the same rights as any other person and that they don't need your pity because that helps no one. They do, however, need empathy and understanding. You should be thankful that you don't have a disability and help people who do by avoiding the kind of idiocy you're putting forward here. Shame on you.

*hugs* I am glad there are people like you in the world. Is there anything that can be done to help the children in your area?

Though this may be a little extreme, and lacking in emotion, I am in agreement with the basis of it. To wholly deny survival of the fittest and allow potentially ruinious genetic defects to perpetuate themselves is massively irresponsible.

I always love people who use words without having the faintest idea what they actually mean. It's really quite funny. Might I suggest doing some very, very, very basic research into what the concept of "survival of the fittest" refers to? I mean, while I do appreciate you making me laugh, I figure you might possibly like to sound less absurdly ignorant.

*hugs* I am glad there are people like you in the world. Is there anything that can be done to help the children in your area?

I mostly send care packages with school supplies once a month, but I'm in the process of trying to get 501(c)(3) tax-exempt status so we can start taking larger donations. I wish I could do a lot more, but I'm full-time both at work and in nursing school, so finding time tends to be an issue :/.

If you'd like to learn about the kids, I have an Advent Calendar (http://thevoltaschool.org/advent.html) that I made back for, well, Advent. I usually encourage people to write letters of support to the faculty of the school because letters can be picked up free-of-charge from the post office; if people are going to send items, I like them to send the items to me first so I can send them in the monthly package because the post office customs agents open all packages and tell the person picking them up what price they have to pay to be able to take the package. It really, really sucks, and I'm trying to find a good way to circumvent the system, but it's hard, ugh.

They have a few very ambitious projects they want to do, the biggest being putting a fence around the school so that the kids don't wander off -- it sucks, but it's for their safety, so I try to ignore the fact that what it's doing is sealing them off from the outside world. They also want to begin participating in the Ghanaian Special Olympics, specifically in track and football (soccer), but again, so much money! I'd really have to be there constantly for a few years to monitor the finances for them to undertake these projects, and until I finish all of my schooling (at this point, four more years before Peace Corps), it's impossible. So... lots of care packages. Lots and lots of care packages. And suitcases full of yarn when I go this summer :D (for these (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2246/2325134775_c3f2efb24f.jpg?v=0)).