NationStates Jolt Archive

I am writing a paper for my english class about allowing Pete Rose into the baseball Hall of Fame, so should he be allowed? why or why not.

I thought the assignment was for you to write it, not NSG.

If there is one cardinal sin in baseball it is betting on games. Even though he bet on his own team, it could have influenced decisions for the worse. he could have made a decision to overuse a reliever for a game and hurt his team in the long run.

He should have learned his lesson from the other 8 players who were banned (although Buck Weaver never should have been banned).

Before Pete Rose gets in, Buck Weaver needs to be reinstated.

I thought the assignment was for you to write it, not NSG.

i am required to have a poll as part of my work.

Before Pete Rose gets in, Buck Weaver needs to be reinstated.

don't forget Shoeless Joe

Good to see your class is really focusing on weighty academic issues.

Good to see your class is really focusing on weighty academic issues.

the class title is writing for baseball, and you can't tell me that there haven't been writings on loftier things

As much as I hate Pete Rose, yes. I think he should be in Cooperstown. He broke the rules of baseball, but he was also one of its greatest players. He's not going in as a manager, he's going in as a player, and he was a great player. Dirtystupidassholebrokemycatcherinagoddamnallstarexhibition.

I'd say Bonds belongs in the Hall before Rose does.

Dirtystupidassholebrokemycatcherinagoddamnallstarexhibition.

i remember hearing about that:D:headbang:

I think that they should put him in the hall of fame as well. He was a damn fine ball player, and that is why he should go to Cooperstown. Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens will both probably end up in the hall of fame, and they used performance enhancing drugs. Pete gambled as a manager, cry me a river. At least he didn't juice up.

I think that they should put him in the hall of fame as well. He was a damn fine ball player, and that is why he should go to Cooperstown. Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens will both probably end up in the hall of fame, and they used performance enhancing drugs. Pete gambled as a manager, cry me a river. At least he didn't juice up.

To play devil's advocate, though, Bonds and Clemens juicing only endangered them. Rose gambled on his team and put his players in danger.

i remember hearing about that:D:headbang:

Who the hell hustles his ass through home in an ALL STAR GAME?? He ended Fosse's career. Jerk.

To play devil's advocate, though, Bonds and Clemens juicing only endangered them. Rose gambled on his team and put his players in danger.

I won't say he put his players in physical danger, but he did put careers and paychecks in danger. I am not saying that what he did was right, but it isn't any less wrong than what Bonds and Clemens did. Cheating is cheating after all. I say he goes in on the merits of his actions as a player not as a manager. As far as him charging the plate in the allstar game, check out Tyrus (Ty) Cobb and a lot of the things he did. He would sharpen his spikes before games and slide in legs high to deliberately injure the opposing teams players. There are also any number of corking controversies and guys who deliberately went head hunting while on the mound. Baseball is a very storied game with a very checkered past. I love it, despite (or maybe because of) all of its involuted controversies. On the local minor league level, go gnats.

This will once again be a topic for debate as the players of the steroid era start coming up for induction, what sort of cheating is acceptable, and is it possible to separate one part of a player's career from another. I think that Bud Selig could have handled this situation a lot better than he did (I am overall not a fan of the man), and this is one of the areas where I think he might have said, "make an example of him alright, but also acknowledge the man's achievements" put a huge freaking plaque next to him talking about the horribleness of cheating and pictures with people getting beaten because they didn't pay their bookie. Whatever, but really Rose deserves the hall, the decision for a lifetime ban was hasty and should be revisited.

Who the hell hustles his ass through home in an ALL STAR GAME?? He ended Fosse's career. Jerk.

Well, the whole concept of an all star game is that you get all the top talent together and see what they can do on the same field. It obviously isn't that now, especially in the NFL and NBA, but I have no problem with players playing hard for the fans, or for themselves during any game that they play. Makes it worth watching.

Who the hell hustles his ass through home in an ALL STAR GAME?? He ended Fosse's career. Jerk.

you could also ask who the hell hustles during a pre-season game too (that is the origin of the nick-name). the answer: Charlie Hustle aka Pete Rose.

This will once again be a topic for debate as the players of the steroid era start coming up for induction, what sort of cheating is acceptable, and is it possible to separate one part of a player's career from another.

just a thought, in real life gambling isn't illegal but steroid use is.

I won't say he put his players in physical danger, but he did put careers and paychecks in danger. I am not saying that what he did was right, but it isn't any less wrong than what Bonds and Clemens did. Cheating is cheating after all. I say he goes in on the merits of his actions as a player not as a manager. As far as him charging the plate in the allstar game, check out Tyrus (Ty) Cobb and a lot of the things he did. He would sharpen his spikes before games and slide in legs high to deliberately injure the opposing teams players. There are also any number of corking controversies and guys who deliberately went head hunting while on the mound. Baseball is a very storied game with a very checkered past. I love it, despite (or maybe because of) all of its involuted controversies. On the local minor league level, go gnats.

Well, I don't think Ty Cobb should be in the Hall just for being a dick, so I'm not the most unbiased of fans. :p

Heaven help me, but I love the stupid game too. Best way to spend a hot summer night.

This will once again be a topic for debate as the players of the steroid era start coming up for induction, what sort of cheating is acceptable, and is it possible to separate one part of a player's career from another. I think that Bud Selig could have handled this situation a lot better than he did (I am overall not a fan of the man), and this is one of the areas where I think he might have said, "make an example of him alright, but also acknowledge the man's achievements" put a huge freaking plaque next to him talking about the horribleness of cheating and pictures with people getting beaten because they didn't pay their bookie. Whatever, but really Rose deserves the hall, the decision for a lifetime ban was hasty and should be revisited.

That's not a bad idea. Pete's picture, plaque with all his achievements on one side, plaque with all his cheating on the other side. Why not? Even a footnote, whatever.

you could also ask who the hell hustles during a pre-season game too (that is the origin of the nick-name). the answer: Charlie Hustle aka Pete Rose.

Oh, trust me, I know the man's nickname. I know all about him, my dad's a Red Sox fan.

Here's a fun fact: Pete Rose is in the WWE(World Wrestling Entertainment) Hall of Fame. :p

Generally speaking, I don't givce two fucks about Pete Rose and I don't give one fuck about the Baseball Hall of Fame. *nod*

I also don't care for baseball bats ever since the bat-to-crotch incident in college. :(

I'd say Bonds belongs in the Hall before Rose does.

ha

haha...hahahaahahahahahhaahaha.

IMO Bonds is a much worse cheater than Rose was. Because while we have the speculation that he influenced his own team's play for his own selfish purposes (which in the short run hurt the integrity of the league, but really no one believes that the MLB, or people in MLB are fixing games), Bonds decided at the end of a very productive and probably hall worthy career that he needed more. He had to take records from people who worked the right way (as Rose did as a player) and selfishly get more attention and money for himself. Rose was selfish, but Bonds was vain and selfish. Plus, on top of that, he's a horrible face for the sport, a jerk who only cares for himself is not how I want my favorite sport portrayed.

don't forget Shoeless Joe

Yeah, you can go ahead and forget Shoeless Joe.

Oh, trust me, I know the man's nickname. I know all about him, my dad's a Red Sox fan.

we have something other then NS in common then. i grew up listening to Red Sox games on the radio during the summer time, and now i look forward to doing the same with my kids once i have kids.

Yeah, you can go ahead and forget Shoeless Joe.

No kidding, even with all that BS from field of dreams about how he didn't throw the series, the rest of the team definitely did, and for that he doesn't deserve consideration. Also, the playoffs are a bit more important than regular season games in general. His time for redemption is past.

No kidding, even with all that BS from field of dreams about how he didn't throw the series, the rest of the team definitely did, and for that he doesn't deserve consideration. Also, the playoffs are a bit more important than regular season games in general. His time for redemption is past.

Well that and, yeah, he did throw the World Series.

Well that and, yeah, he did throw the World Series.

based on his stats from that series i doubt that.

based on his stats from that series i doubt that.

That would be because you haven't really looked at his stats from the series.

Who the hell hustles his ass through home in an ALL STAR GAME?? He ended Fosse's career. Jerk.

Back in the day people actually cared about the all star game. Pitchers would go all out 9 innings, and managers would manage to win, not to make sure every person gets a chance to play.

I think that they should put him in the hall of fame as well. He was a damn fine ball player, and that is why he should go to Cooperstown. Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens will both probably end up in the hall of fame, and they used performance enhancing drugs. Pete gambled as a manager, cry me a river. At least he didn't juice up.

Bonds and Clemens will not end up in Cooperstown. They're reputation has been damaged irreparably for that now. In fact, I guarantee you any big name person who gets in trouble for steroids in baseball will not have the slightest shot at the hall.

That would be because you haven't really looked at his stats from the series.

then please enlighten me. last time i checked leading both teams in the series with 12 hits and batting .375 doesn't exactly count as throwing the series

Going to the all knowing Google...

Definitions of fame on the Web:

* the state or quality of being widely honored and acclaimed
* favorable public reputation

Pete Rose does not meet both requirements.

Pete Rose was the ultimate baseball player, all out, all the time. He knew more about baseball, and probably still does, than the Baseball Commissioner and all of his men.

Based upon his performance on the field as a player, I don't see how you could not put him the Hall. He eptiomized what we love in the sport.

you could also ask who the hell hustles during a pre-season game too (that is the origin of the nick-name). the answer: Charlie Hustle aka Pete Rose.

I always knew E-40 as Charlie Hustle, not Pete Rose

/yay area threadjack.

Also, No. He hurt the game through betting on it while being in a position to influence the results. What if he lost? What if people manipulated him? Even getting himself in a position where that could have happened is a giant black mark on him.

Also NO to: Palmeiro, McGwire, Canseco, Sosa, Tejada, Clemens, Petitte, Bonds, Sheffield and Giambi.

yes he should be in the hall of fame

after he is dead.

don't forget Shoeless Joe
I am a huge White Sox fan and Shoeless is my favorite LF in franchise history, but he still took the money. Of course Shoeless never threw the games, but he isn't 100% innocent here. It pains me to say it, but Shoeless shouldn't be in Cooperstown.

I am a huge White Sox fan and Shoeless is my favorite LF in franchise history, but he still took the money. Of course Shoeless never threw the games, but he isn't 100% innocent here. It pains me to say it, but Shoeless shouldn't be in Cooperstown.

well at least your honest with yourself

then please enlighten me

Well ok.

The Field of Dreams fans like to chirp the ".375, Series only homerun, perfect defense" line. And if that's as deep as you go, he looks pretty good. But when you break things down a little more, you start to see an interesting trend.

Batting average in games the Sox won: .545
Batting average in games the Reds won: .285

RBI by Jackson in the Series: 6
RBI by Jackson that gave the Sox a tie or the lead: 1

Jackson's stats with Runners in scoring position: 5-14 with two strikeouts and 5(!) infield pop outs, including one on a bunt attempt. Three times Jackson grounded out with runners in scoring position to end the game, including Game 8, when he grounded out to the 2nd baseman with runners on 2nd and 3rd in a 10-5 game to end the Series.

While it's true that 5-14 works out to a .357 batting average, it should also be noted that 4 of those hits came in two games (leaving him 1-7 for the rest of the series) and, as previously mentioned, only 1 of those hits came in a situation where the Sox weren't already well ahead or behind.

As for the claim of Jackson playing perfect defense, it's true that Jackson committed no errors during the series. But there are plenty of other ways a defensive player can effect the game without throwing one into the stands. By all accounts--both contemporary and modern--Jackson was a superior defensive player. Excellent range and speed, as well as an exceptional throwing arm. One of the sports writers of the day said that Jackson's glove was "the place where triples go to die."

Extra base hits by the Reds in the Series: 17
Extra base hits by the Reds to Jackson: 9 (3 triples, 6 doubles)

Runs scored by Reds in the Series: 35
Runs scored by Reds off balls (hits and outs) hit to Jackson: 16

Number of extra-base hits to Jackson that didn't result in an RBI: 0

So like I said, you can probably go ahead and forget about Jackson.

thank you for answering me. i will have to take another look at that series before changing my mind on Jackson, but you have definitely given me something to think about and look at.

thank you for answering me. i will have to take another look at that series before changing my mind on Jackson, but you have definitely given me something to think about and look at.

No problem.

There's no denying that Jackson was a great, great player. Probably one of the 30 greatest pure hitters ever. Comiskey was a skinflint, and it's easy to understand why the money was attractive to the players. But when you look at the overall flow of the Series it's pretty clear that--even if he didn't "try" as hard some of the others--Jackson did what he could to give that Series to the Reds.

If there is one cardinal sin in baseball it is betting on games. Even though he bet on his own team, it could have influenced decisions for the worse. he could have made a decision to overuse a reliever for a game and hurt his team in the long run.

He should have learned his lesson from the other 8 players who were banned (although Buck Weaver never should have been banned).

Before Pete Rose gets in, Buck Weaver needs to be reinstated.
But the Hall of Fame is an independent entity not governed by Major League Baseball. While Rose should absolutely be banned for life from baseball (because he broke baseball's most important rule, posted in every clubhouse), there is no aspect of the rule that requires he be barred from the Hall of Fame.

The Hall made their decision to ban Rose independently, and in error. No rule had ever existed that excluded players from the Hall of Fame based on any violation of the rules of baseball. By making one up, the Hall increased the penalty applied to Rose after the fact, and thus unfairly.

thank you for answering me. i will have to take another look at that series before changing my mind on Jackson, but you have definitely given me something to think about and look at.
There's a fairly detailed (and amusing) history of the fixing of the 1919 World Series in The Cheater's Guide to Baseball (published last year, written by Derek Zumsteg). I recommend the book generally, and you'll certainly be interested in the account of the payoffs and double-crosses contained therein.

Remember the old saying, "dance with the one who brung ya." Despite his kinks Pete got Cincinnati where you are today, and it's important for you to remain loyal to him until you're absolutely certain he has become a real liability for your country club application. If so, encourage Pete to strip down to his thong and rant about Jews at the next country club cocktail party. Then you can feign heartbreak, and run crying for the bathroom. This will earn you the sympathy of the club admissions committee, and they will probably offer you an individual membership for your "courage." Pete won't mind because he's obviously more into his Fuhrer fantasy than improving his golf swing. And trust me -- the make-up sex you have later will be unbelievable!

But the Hall of Fame is an independent entity not governed by Major League Baseball. While Rose should absolutely be banned for life from baseball (because he broke baseball's most important rule, posted in every clubhouse), there is no aspect of the rule that requires he be barred from the Hall of Fame.

The Hall made their decision to ban Rose independently, and in error. No rule had ever existed that excluded players from the Hall of Fame based on any violation of the rules of baseball. By making one up, the Hall increased the penalty applied to Rose after the fact, and thus unfairly.

check this out: http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers/faq.jsp#rose

according to the baseball HOF website the commissioner must first reinstate him before he can even get on the ballot.

Remember the old saying, "dance with the one who brung ya." Despite his kinks Pete got Cincinnati where you are today, and it's important for you to remain loyal to him until you're absolutely certain he has become a real liability for your country club application. If so, encourage Pete to strip down to his thong and rant about Jews at the next country club cocktail party. Then you can feign heartbreak, and run crying for the bathroom. This will earn you the sympathy of the club admissions committee, and they will probably offer you an individual membership for your "courage." Pete won't mind because he's obviously more into his Fuhrer fantasy than improving his golf swing. And trust me -- the make-up sex you have later will be unbelievable!

i don't even know what to say to this one...:eek:

check this out: http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers/faq.jsp#rose

according to the baseball HOF website the commissioner must first reinstate him before he can even get on the ballot.
But the HoF made up that rule after Rose was banned from baseball. That's my point. The Hall could unilaterally change that rule if they wanted, and there's nothing Bud Selig could do about it.

And they should. The rule should never have existed.

i'll give you that

Going to the all knowing Google...

Definitions of fame on the Web:

* the state or quality of being widely honored and acclaimed
* favorable public reputation

Pete Rose does not meet both requirements.

And if it was the fame hall of fame, this would matter.

And if it was the fame hall of fame, this would matter.

it's true. the point though is that Pete Rose has done many amazing things in his career. that is one reason i think he should be in the HOF

But the HoF made up that rule after Rose was banned from baseball. That's my point. The Hall could unilaterally change that rule if they wanted, and there's nothing Bud Selig could do about it.

And they should. The rule should never have existed.

They DID change the rule. Pete is now eligible to be considered for induction by the Veterans Committee. It's still not going to happen.

i know a few people who think he should be inducted after he dies because of his records, and so he can't get the glory

i know a few people who think he should be inducted after he dies because of his records, and so he can't get the glory

Here's a fun fact: Pete Rose is in the WWE(World Wrestling Entertainment) Hall of Fame. :p

Generally speaking, I don't givce two fucks about Pete Rose and I don't give one fuck about the Baseball Hall of Fame. *nod*

I also don't care for baseball bats ever since the bat-to-crotch incident in college. :(

Don't be bitter just 'cause it doesn't involve tackling people, LG. Although, if done right, it can sometimes (see fisk, cartlon).

I always knew E-40 as Charlie Hustle, not Pete Rose

/yay area threadjack.

Like whut! Too bad he don't know his rules n regulations. ;)

Also NO to: Palmeiro, McGwire, Canseco, Sosa, Tejada, Clemens, Petitte, Bonds, Sheffield and Giambi.

Awww, not Miguel. :(

I am writing a paper for my english class about allowing Pete Rose into the baseball Hall of Fame, so should he be allowed? why or why not.
Yes and here is why:

Rose, a switch hitter, is the all-time Major League leader in hits (4,256), games played (3,562), at bats (14,053), and outs (10,328). He won three World Series rings, three batting titles, one Most Valuable Player Award, two Gold Gloves, the Rookie of the Year Award, and made 17 All-Star appearances at an unequaled five different positions (2B, LF, RF, 3B, and 1B). Rose's nickname, "Charlie Hustle", was given to him for his play beyond the "call of duty" while on the field. Even when being walked, Rose would run to first base, instead of the traditional walk to base. Rose was also known for sliding headfirst into a base, his signature move.

This has nothing to do with Pete's HoF credentials, but I've always found it amusing that Pete never met the piece of memorabilia he wouldn't be willing to sell. There's a running joke about Pete:

A guy goes to a sports convention and approaches a booth.

"I'd like a Pete Rose autographed Jersey."

The vendor says "Philly, Montreal or Cincinnati?"

"Cincinnati."

So the vendor asks "'60's, '70's or '80's?"

"'60's"

The vendor then asks "Home or away?"

"Home."

The vendor then sifts through a box and says "What size?"

thank you to all who helped and took part in this poll. you were all a big help.:):D

I am writing a paper for my english class about allowing Pete Rose into the baseball Hall of Fame, so should he be allowed? why or why not.

I can't say I disagree with banning him from the hall of fame. The only part that burns me is that these jerktards on steroids don't get squat punishment whereas Pete Rose is banned for life.

I can't say I disagree with banning him from the hall of fame. The only part that burns me is that these jerktards on steroids don't get squat punishment whereas Pete Rose is banned for life.
Rose broke the rules. The steroid users did not.

First off I'm a Cincinnatian and a life long Reds fan. Ray Fosse sucks, Clevelanders always whine, Boston sucks but at least they're getting over it, and Sparky Anderson is a mastermind. That out of the way, hell no Pete Rose doesn't belong in the Hall of Fame. His character is atrocious. He's a shameless self-promoter who sold his autograph with the addition "I'm sorry I bet on baseball", after denying betting on baseball for more than a decade. He agreed to his ban, it wasn't dumped on him from above.

I loved watching him play, even in his old and slow years, I still remember the excitement of his chase for hit #4192 back in '85. And he wasn't a bad manager, coached us to a lot of second place finishes that would be in the playoff hunt these days. The most important lesson I learned watching Rose was to never put an athlete, or entertainer, on a pedestal.

He's more conspicuous by his absence, and it's a reminder to players who treat the game like dirt and the fans like cash-bearing cattle to be milked (that's the owners' job). As for the 'roid heads of the recent past, keep them out too. The Hall of Fame has a decades-long backlog of guys who should have made it but lost the popularity contest because of the eccentricities of the writers. Get them in there, weed out the cheaters from the heroes, and baseball will be just fine.