NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm still in school, 15, and today just got me thinking... these days (From what I've hear it wasn't like this so much in schools a couple of decades or so back) schools seem to teach a lot of stuff about things like human rights, trying to give us some social conscience. My history teacher takes things a little seriously, when she teaches about stuff like the holocaust, slavery, segregation, ect she always takes these injustices to heart, it seems to genuinely have an effect on her. For me it's just something that I do to pass exams, it's no big deal and when the lesson's over I'm just talking with friends as normal. We also have these 'citizenship' lessons which I've always thought is a little pointless. Citizenship is about stuff like human rights, diversity, conflict resolution, the 'global community', all that sort of PC stuff. You always get some in the class who take it to heart (Unsurprisingly it's usually girls) when they hear whatever global horror story the teacher tells us, but I find the whole thing boring. I'm not one to condone things like human rights abuses but I just can't personally connect to it in any way and it just seems a bit pointless hearing about it when my only focus on subjects is to pass exams.

So I guess my point is, is it good, bad or indeterminate to teach this PC stuff? And am I being a heartless bastard for not taking it to heart?

You're going to use a pejorative to describe making students aware of the holocaust? Really?

Really?

..


Really?

You're going to use a pejorative to describe making students aware of the holocaust? Really?

Really?

..


Really?
Well not so much the holocaust, it's such a big historical event and all. I was saying more about the way my history teacher was taking it to heart, while I look at it more as just part of my studies.

Nah....its just yer teacher is a pinko sandal wearing muesli eating vegan who occasionally reads passages of Marx while on the can.

The holocaust is just PC stuff?

Well, I think you convinced me teaching about it is very important.

I tend to agree. What the teachers should do is pick one of you at random (today we have decided that people with brown eyes are filth. YOU ! COME HERE !) and execute them. In front of the class.

That would make you appreciate things more.

I tend to agree. What the teachers should do is pick one of you at random (today we have decided that people with brown eyes are filth. YOU ! COME HERE !) and execute them. In front of the class.

That would make you appreciate things more.

Battle Royale! Totally! Little bastards.

I BEFRIEND CHESTNUTS;13650513']I'm not one to condone things like human rights abuses but I just can't personally connect to it in any way and it just seems a bit pointless hearing about it when my only focus on subjects is to pass exams.What are you going to do with your life when you no longer have to take exams? The teacher is trying to tell you about the rest of the world and you still seem to think the world consists of your friends.

For me it’s just something that I do to pass exams
And they call it ‘education’...

Irrespective of how you feel about these subjects, be glad your teacher is trying to engage you in a subject, rather than simply drumming into you the ability to spew out a certain selection of facts in a limited time period.

So I guess my point is, is it good, bad or indeterminate to teach this PC stuff?
What “PC stuff”?

It's the age, really it's just the age. 15 Year olds usually have other things on there minds, they're still very restricted to the monkeysphere (http://www.cracked.com/article_14990_what-monkeysphere.html) (an interesting read I say)
Don't worry, everything will work out ;)

I BEFRIEND CHESTNUTS;13650513'] I'm not one to condone things like human rights abuses but I just can't personally connect to it in any way and it just seems a bit pointless hearing about it when my only focus on subjects is to pass exams.

So I guess my point is, is it good, bad or indeterminate to teach this PC stuff? And am I being a heartless bastard for not taking it to heart?

The point about Citizenship Education (CE) is to make you connect to such things, or rather to make you aware that you are connected to them whether you want it or not, and to teach you how you can modify and live that connection.

Of course, there are some people you can never reach, but if a teacher leaves you feeling that the issues in their CE classes are just "PC stuff", then they have either taught badly or according to a very bad CE guideline.

What are you going to do with your life when you no longer have to take exams? The teacher is trying to tell you about the rest of the world and you still seem to think the world consists of your friends.
I plan to get a job. All this citizenship stuff doesn't seem to have any relevance to my reality. I learn about the world through experience, as everyone else does and always has done.

What “PC stuff”?
It's hard to give it a specific definition, but a lot of it's about trying make us feel bad. For example, having to tiptoe around controversial issues through fear of offending someone. Wallowing on global issues that don't really affect us because of some balls like 'internationalism'. Or instead of teaching us about any historical greatness of this country, they always focus on whatever percieved negatives. Stuff like that.

It's the age, really it's just the age. 15 Year olds usually have other things on there minds, they're still very restricted to the monkeysphere (http://www.cracked.com/article_14990_what-monkeysphere.html) (an interesting read I say)
Don't worry, everything will work out ;)
That was a very interesting article. Though it gains extra points if only for this:
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/3574/piratemonkeywr7.jpg :D

I BEFRIEND CHESTNUTS;13650641']I plan to get a job. All this citizenship stuff doesn't seem to have any relevance to my reality. I learn about the world through experience, as everyone else does and always has done.

The point is that you can also learn from other peoples experiences. At 15 your own experiences will most likely be.. how shall I put it.. insignificant.

The point is that you can also learn from other peoples experiences. At 15 your own experiences will most likely be.. how shall I put it.. insignificant.
I understand that I don't have much life experience, being in a wealthy country, living in a reasonable area and having real strict parents. But you've gotta understand that teachers will have their own slant on subjects like this anyway, you know how left wing a lot of teachers tend to be!

It's the age, really it's just the age. 15 Year olds usually have other things on there minds, they're still very restricted to the monkeysphere (http://www.cracked.com/article_14990_what-monkeysphere.html) (an interesting read I say)
Don't worry, everything will work out ;)

The monkeysphere....interesting. I hadn't heard it called that term before. Well, Ihadn't heard it called anything other than the idea that people work best in groups of 150 or smaller.

Makes sense to me.

What do you mean 'still very restricted' to the monkeysphere? Is that a negative thing? If so, why?

About the op: It sounds like your teacher trying to teach you the lessons through examples like the holocaust. Heed them or ignore them if you want.

She is also trying to educate you, which is a nice thing.

What's what saying?

Those who don't know history are bound to repeat it?

You complain about it, but everything you know makes you more aware of the world around you; it creates a generation sensitive to its peers and better able to comprehend what went wrong and how we can fix the world to be a better place.

I agree that they way the holocaust was/is taught in school is very bad (vital as it is we learn about it) I always felt uncomfortable with it because it was more a case of the teacher giving off these massive bully vibes.

citizenship I do agree with needs to focus more on things like credit cards, mortgages, finding work, visas and all that other crap that I had absolutely no idea about when I left school

I BEFRIEND CHESTNUTS;13650513']And am I being a heartless bastard for not taking it to heart?

are we talking about just being numb to the whole issue even though you have this nagging feeling that you should be feeling so much more?

you still seem to think the world consists of your friends.

I will have you know it does

edit: oh look NSG has decided to do what it always does and pointlessly spam the OP with assumptions

It’s hard to give it a specific definition, but a lot of it’s about trying make us feel bad.
I believe you miss the point of highlighting practices such as genocide. It’s not studied to make you ‘feel bad’, but to become aware of the issues that lead to such terrible atrocities, so that we might be able to prevent them happening again.

For example, having to tiptoe around controversial issues through fear of offending someone.
Any actual examples?

Wallowing on global issues that don’t really affect us because of some balls like ‘internationalism’.
What do you mean by ‘internationalism’? The fact that we live in a globalised society, connected to and reliant upon a huge amount of resources, people and places outside the borders of the UK, is one to be studied carefully–for it is one of the most defining features of today’s world.

The monkeysphere....interesting. I hadn't heard it called that term before. Well, Ihadn't heard it called anything other than the idea that people work best in groups of 150 or smaller.

Makes sense to me.

What do you mean 'still very restricted' to the monkeysphere? Is that a negative thing? If so, why?

About the op: It sounds like your teacher trying to teach you the lessons through examples like the holocaust. Heed them or ignore them if you want.

She is also trying to educate you, which is a nice thing.
With restricted I would say they still really think inside the monkeysphere.
I wouldn't call it negative, just natural. Remember that the brain still develops untill you're about 25 years old, the phase where 15 year olds belong (puberty) is a very individual phase where kids try to find out who they are, with wich group they belong or want to belong, sexuality etc. In general, I would say there isn't that much room for thinking outside the monkeysphere, lots of times not even about people insíde the monkeysphere like parents.

I BEFRIEND CHESTNUTS;13650641']I plan to get a job. All this citizenship stuff doesn't seem to have any relevance to my reality. I learn about the world through experience, as everyone else does and always has done.Everyone else does it is a silly way to justify something. It's never true either. I think people usually use the everyone does it defense to justify something that not many people actually do, like furries who say "well everyone is slightly furry" and racists who say "everyone secretly hates mexicans."

Most people read the newspaper and learn from what other people have to say about the world, instead of boxing themselves into their own experiences.

Since you said your teacher is biased, I think you do care about what your teacher is saying, because you cared enough to at least form your own opinions. I'm not sure what you're complaining about, are you complaining because someone is trying to influence your opinions?

I tend to agree. What the teachers should do is pick one of you at random (today we have decided that people with brown eyes are filth. YOU ! COME HERE !) and execute them. In front of the class.

That would make you appreciate things more.

One of my history teachers actually used that technique once (well, not execution, obviously) by dividing us into groups based on eye color. The blue-eyed people were the "inferior" ones because their eye color is less common, therefor unnatural. I think some people didn't get it, but it was interesting.

I BEFRIEND CHESTNUTS;13650641']It's hard to give it a specific definition, but a lot of it's about trying make us feel bad. For example, having to tiptoe around controversial issues through fear of offending someone. Wallowing on global issues that don't really affect us because of some balls like 'internationalism'. Or instead of teaching us about any historical greatness of this country, they always focus on whatever percieved negatives. Stuff like that.

No one can make you feel bad. If you feel bad about it, that's your problem. I'm a middle-class white girl living in one of the richest places on earth. Should I feel bad that some of my ancestors may have oppressed people, exploited people, even fought for Germany in WWII? I don't. I didn't do those things. But I can look at them and learn from them, I can understand how the previous centuries have shaped society today, I can appreciate the inequalities that still plague our society and use my understanding of history to try and create a more equal tomorrow.

As for the rest: no one can make you care about other people. If you don't, you don't. But you could stop whining about it.

I BEFRIEND CHESTNUTS;13650513'] You always get some in the class who take it to heart (Unsurprisingly it's usually girls) when they hear whatever global horror story the teacher tells us

Seems like the girls in your class are more mature than you.

Should schools teach PC crap? No. Is what you've described PC? No. They are important historical events with serious concequences that teaches two lessons.

1. Racism is the cause for countless pointless executions that should never be repeated.
2. Mankind are a bunch of jerks.:(

Ah, 'rebellious' youth.

Ah, 'rebellious' youth.

I dont give a shit about anyone! Fuck society! Its for pussies!

It's the age, really it's just the age. 15 Year olds usually have other things on there minds, they're still very restricted to the monkeysphere (http://www.cracked.com/article_14990_what-monkeysphere.html) (an interesting read I say)
Don't worry, everything will work out ;)

lolz!

humans are God's big-budget sequel to the monkey"

sigworthy

I dont give a shit about anyone! Fuck society! Its for pussies!

See that corner, emo? Go and cry in it with your blood. :p

The holocaust is just PC stuff?

Well, I think you convinced me teaching about it is very important.

I do sort of see his point. When I was in high school, in our 'American History' classes, the Holocaust frequently got MORE mention in the history books than WWII itself. To the exclusion of all other attrocities of the time. Frequently, NO mention was made of the goings on in the Soviet Union, or of the Eastern Front AT ALL, except for a little outbox about Stalingrad and how awful it was.
It seems, to me at least, somewhat odd to give precidence in terms of space to an event which took place during a war over an ENTIRE FRONT of the war, in which millions more were killed than during any part of the Holocaust, and, indeed, the WAR itself.

Get used to it kid, most teachers do try and impose their own view point rather than the facts through their teachings on to you. Be careful on these forums, there are some people who deny that this ever happens.

Get used to it kid, most teachers do try and impose their own view point rather than the facts through their teachings on to you. Be careful on these forums, there are some people who deny that this ever happens.

Yes. And you're only safe if you wear your tin-foil hat, because they use mind control to do it.

After all, your teacher MADE you care about the holocaust, didn't she? Next thing you know, she'll turn you into a bible-thumping Republican if you don't watch out.

The teachers are EVERYWHERE. With HYPNOTIC POWERS!

Nah....its just yer teacher is a pinko sandal wearing muesli eating vegan who occasionally reads passages of Marx while on the can.

I lol'd a little in my mouth. :)

Seems like the girls in your class are more mature than you.
At age 15, that's unsurprising.

incidently, I noticed your sig. You should hunt down and read,"The wife to Mr Milton" by Robert Graves. It's a fictional autobiography of, well, the wife of John Milton.
Makes a fascinating story. He's painted as a total shit. (I'm being allergorical here. He's not actually painted with shit).

Yes. And you're only safe if you wear your tin-foil hat, because they use mind control to do it.

After all, your teacher MADE you care about the holocaust, didn't she? Next thing you know, she'll turn you into a bible-thumping Republican if you don't watch out.

The teachers are EVERYWHERE. With HYPNOTIC POWERS!

No need for sarcasm Kat, and while he made special reference to the Holocaust, he did also mention his citizenship classes; I also made reference to other issues. Now I am sure that you don't do it with your students Kat, but I did have teachers who attempted to impose their beliefs (not on the holocaust, but I do remember one teacher claiming that only Jews were sent to the concentration camps) on to me through their teachings.

Feel free to correct gammatical mistakes Kat.:)

I BEFRIEND CHESTNUTS;13650513']I'm still in school, 15, and today just got me thinking... these days (From what I've hear it wasn't like this so much in schools a couple of decades or so back) schools seem to teach a lot of stuff about things like human rights, trying to give us some social conscience. My history teacher takes things a little seriously, when she teaches about stuff like the holocaust, slavery, segregation, ect she always takes these injustices to heart, it seems to genuinely have an effect on her. For me it's just something that I do to pass exams, it's no big deal and when the lesson's over I'm just talking with friends as normal. We also have these 'citizenship' lessons which I've always thought is a little pointless. Citizenship is about stuff like human rights, diversity, conflict resolution, the 'global community', all that sort of PC stuff. You always get some in the class who take it to heart (Unsurprisingly it's usually girls) when they hear whatever global horror story the teacher tells us, but I find the whole thing boring. I'm not one to condone things like human rights abuses but I just can't personally connect to it in any way and it just seems a bit pointless hearing about it when my only focus on subjects is to pass exams.

So I guess my point is, is it good, bad or indeterminate to teach this PC stuff? And am I being a heartless bastard for not taking it to heart?

Meh 'you are young, but you will learn' All knowledge is good, that you don't see it this way is fine, one day you will.

I BEFRIEND CHESTNUTS;13650513']Citizenship is about stuff like human rights, diversity, conflict resolution, the 'global community', all that sort of PC stuff.

Wow that does sound like a lot of crap. I mean, who gives a shit about human rights? :rolleyes:


And what on earth is 'PC' about that? Seriously, do people even know what the PC is even meant to stand for anymore, or is it just a catchall term for things that you don't like?

I BEFRIEND CHESTNUTS;13650641']I plan to get a job. All this citizenship stuff doesn't seem to have any relevance to my reality. I learn about the world through experience, as everyone else does and always has done.I could swear that school is an experience. Also the notion that you would have to be subjected to genocide rather than learn about it in order for it to have relevance in your reality strikes me as pretty naive.
It's hard to give it a specific definition, but a lot of it's about trying make us feel bad. For example, having to tiptoe around controversial issues through fear of offending someone. Wallowing on global issues that don't really affect us because of some balls like 'internationalism'. Or instead of teaching us about any historical greatness of this country, they always focus on whatever percieved negatives. Stuff like that.You mean manners?

I BEFRIEND CHESTNUTS;13650513']I'm still in school, 15, and today just got me thinking... these days (From what I've hear it wasn't like this so much in schools a couple of decades or so back) schools seem to teach a lot of stuff about things like human rights, trying to give us some social conscience. My history teacher takes things a little seriously, when she teaches about stuff like the holocaust, slavery, segregation, ect she always takes these injustices to heart, it seems to genuinely have an effect on her. For me it's just something that I do to pass exams, it's no big deal and when the lesson's over I'm just talking with friends as normal. We also have these 'citizenship' lessons which I've always thought is a little pointless. Citizenship is about stuff like human rights, diversity, conflict resolution, the 'global community', all that sort of PC stuff. You always get some in the class who take it to heart (Unsurprisingly it's usually girls) when they hear whatever global horror story the teacher tells us, but I find the whole thing boring. I'm not one to condone things like human rights abuses but I just can't personally connect to it in any way and it just seems a bit pointless hearing about it when my only focus on subjects is to pass exams.

So I guess my point is, is it good, bad or indeterminate to teach this PC stuff? And am I being a heartless bastard for not taking it to heart?


I think that if you knew someone who had been murdered, raped, or opressed in other way simply for being different you would not be refering to such issues as PC. It is NOT PC to learn tollerence in order to coexist peacefully.
We as a species have failed to learn from such atrocities and that is why they are still happening today (Zimbabwe, Siera Leone, East Timor, Tibet, China, Brunai, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Lebanon.
I think that what your teacher is trying to get accross is "Don't let your nation get to this point".
Try to imagine that it is happening to your family and friends... Seriously, get a good mental picture.....
thinking?.....
How do you feel?.....
Terrifying, isn't it!
Each of these figures that you're learning is a life with a family just like yours. Don't make the same mistakes that mine and previous generations made. If you understand and learn now, you can make a difference in the future.

I BEFRIEND CHESTNUTS;13650513']I'm still in school, 15, and today just got me thinking... these days (From what I've hear it wasn't like this so much in schools a couple of decades or so back) schools seem to teach a lot of stuff about things like human rights, trying to give us some social conscience. My history teacher takes things a little seriously, when she teaches about stuff like the holocaust, slavery, segregation, ect she always takes these injustices to heart, it seems to genuinely have an effect on her. For me it's just something that I do to pass exams, it's no big deal and when the lesson's over I'm just talking with friends as normal. We also have these 'citizenship' lessons which I've always thought is a little pointless. Citizenship is about stuff like human rights, diversity, conflict resolution, the 'global community', all that sort of PC stuff. You always get some in the class who take it to heart (Unsurprisingly it's usually girls) when they hear whatever global horror story the teacher tells us, but I find the whole thing boring. I'm not one to condone things like human rights abuses but I just can't personally connect to it in any way and it just seems a bit pointless hearing about it when my only focus on subjects is to pass exams.

So I guess my point is, is it good, bad or indeterminate to teach this PC stuff? And am I being a heartless bastard for not taking it to heart?

Those "PC" events are very important and affect a lot of aspects of your life constantly. Not knowing about them would be a very ignorant state of mind. You have to pass an exam on them to show that you've listened and absorbed what's been said.

Having said that, you definatly don't need to care about them. That's up to you. In fact, you'll probably stick to your ethics with a lot more integrity if you stay emotionally distant.

I BEFRIEND CHESTNUTS;13650641']I plan to get a job. All this citizenship stuff doesn't seem to have any relevance to my reality. I learn about the world through experience, as everyone else does and always has done.

Learning through experience IS learning from others' experience in the majority. Don't pass up wisdom when it's offered to you.

Some school districts have been trying to "reach" students by trying to emote. They give considerably less time to actual facts about the world and its history than trying to sensationalize drivel.

The holocaust was not some emotionally 'heart-wrenching' tale of some little girl keeping a diary while living in an attic, nor some evil plot of antisemitic demons laughing maniacally at the thought of eating babies. What happened was bad enough as it is, you really don't need to belabor the point and sensationalize it to the point of ignoring the reality of the situation. It seriously teaches a wrong lesson.

Saying 'nazis were monsters' leads people into thinking 'I'm not a monster, so I'm not going to ever do anything horrible like that', and next thing you know, atrocities are committed. Of course, teaching that most Germans were good people doing what they thought was right would be such an appalling thought that any teacher saying that would have parents storming the school with pitchforks and torches.

They should be teaching history, not trying to make class a soap opera.
Actually, I do love to make one little comment that really yanks people's tail: I actually agree with Hitler's thoughts about how history should be taught (what? agree with Hitler? nonsense! he was a monster, so anything he said must be horrible - commence lynching vegetarians now!). Pick up a copy of Mein Kampf sometime - that is very educational experience and far more important to understanding history than Anne Frank (for those too lazy or busy to read it - he said it was more important to understand the how and why of major events than to memorize the date some king was crowned, dates are less important than the fundamental causes).

Of course, we must not forget to whitewash history as well. Slavery was a white invention that blacks never participated in, since Stalin was an ally we just won't talk about his atrocities (not to mention our own), FDR was an amazing paragon of virtue with fundamentally wonderful policies, and monopolistic public school where teachers and administrators free from having to actually provide a decent education for reasonable money teaching naught but approved propaganda is the best way.

...Schools are the DEVIL!!!! THEY MUST BE BANNED IMMEDIATELY!!! :mad:

I lol'd a little in my mouth. :)

Mr Shea and Mr Wilson inspired me ;)

Ah, 'rebellious' youth.
I don't really see what I'm saying as rebellious. It's not like I'm trying to make an arse out of myself at school and I'm pretty well behaved. If anything I'm considered more of a geek.

Anyway, I wasn't specifically referring to the holocaust. Just how teachers seem to desperate to make everyone feel bad.

Would you prefer if they taught you the philosophical arguments for why it's wrong and you should care?

I mean, I'm sure they could, but in a class of 15 year olds who are, apparently, only after passing exams, I have my doubts as to how effective it would be.

Wow that does sound like a lot of crap. I mean, who gives a shit about human rights? :rolleyes:
Lots of people in the UK don't. Mainly because lots of people don't like the idea that the rights they want (like free speech, no cruel punishments etc) might well apply to other people, usually criminals and religious or ethnic minorities. Politicians exploit this in two ways, firstly by saying that human rights inhibit counter-terrorism (this privacy and fair trial stuff getting in the way) and saying that they want a 'British' Bill of Rights and Responsibilities (assuming those that don't follow their government defined responsibilities won't have rights), the upshot of which is that eventually the Human Rights Act will be scrapped and replaced with something with even more loopholes and less protection for people, or at least the minorities human rights are supposed to protect.

We don't just need to be teaching about Human Rights, we need to ensure people know how rights are supposed to be universal for everybody be definition.

And what on earth is 'PC' about that? Seriously, do people even know what the PC is even meant to stand for anymore, or is it just a catchall term for things that you don't like?
I don't need to answer that one.

Would you prefer if they taught you the philosophical arguments for why it's wrong and you should care?

I mean, I'm sure they could, but in a class of 15 year olds who are, apparently, only after passing exams, I have my doubts as to how effective it would be.
These kinds of classes, citizenship and Religious Education, don't really get taken seriously. I'm not just talking about students, they also tend to have low budgets, few classes and no important exam at the end. I doubt a philosophical lesson on human rights would really work, although it would be good in an ideal world.