NationStates Jolt Archive

Alot of the claims of racism I see seems to ride right along next to the working class level.

So I wonder if racism is the problem in America so much as classism is the problem. Though even if it is classism and not racism, much of the "lower" class is a result of past racism.

I don't know, but I guess it's mostly on a social level, not really entirely race-based.
I can't imagine that Will Smith or Hale Berry receive racial hate-mail regularly...

I say racism is slowly (Ever so slowly) dieing out here in the US. Can't speak for anywhere else though.

i dont find "classism" to be much of a problem.

yes, racism is a problem in the US.

you cant put racism down to class problems. its a whole different bag of shit.

I'd say it is a problem, but I don't think it's as big of a problem as Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson would like people to believe it is.

Spend five minutes on xbox live. *nod* you will see....oh, you'll see....

Spend five minutes on xbox live. *nod* you will see....oh, you'll see....

Any specific game?

Any specific game?

No, but be sure to keep voicechat on and stuff.

No, but be sure to keep voicechat on and stuff.

Hmm I'll have to see that on her X-Box then....

I think that it very well could be a problem, but I also think it's overreported (has first hand experience with that. -.-; ).

Alot of the claims of racism I see seems to ride right along next to the working class level.

So I wonder if racism is the problem in America so much as classism is the problem. Though even if it is classism and not racism, much of the "lower" class is a result of past racism.

We do have it, but it's not the "OMG ebil whites are teh ras1st!!11!!" level some would have you believe.

So I wonder if racism is the problem in America so much as classism is the problem. Though even if it is classism and not racism, much of the "lower" class is a result of past racism.

Considering one can effectivly change classes in a day, Classism is less prevalent here than in most countries.

Racism is a big problem here. Not the lynching, burning cross type (though, that is still around), but more the subconscious.

Considering one can effectivly change classes in a day, Classism is less prevalent here than in most countries.

Can people not change classes in other countries?

It's a problem, and it will be so long as the living memory of the institutions of racism continues to exist. It's hold weakens with every generation, but it will not be gone for a very, very long time. It's not the anaconda, coiled around our society that it once was, but it's there, it's a coiled viper, waiting to strike.

Can people not change classes in other countries?

From a previous discussion, many countries have you born into your class based on what your parents did for a living.

From a previous discussion, many countries have you born into your class based on what your parents did for a living.

But that's not how it actually operates in, say, European countries. That's just the product of an inaccurate method of operationalisation.

Classism and racism are different, but can be mistaken for each other.


A business decides not to go into a poor area that happens to be mainly black. Yeah, there will be people who claim racism is why they did go in, but the company's bottom line could have been the real reason.

:confused:
Apparently another track just opened for discussion.

On top of classism vs racism, what about perceived racism vs racism?



(note when I say classism I mean money wise, not like the japanese untouchables [can't remember the word for them])

both racism and classism are problems, and not just in the U.S., but in the whole world, because, let's face it, we, as humans, tend to join, defend and appreciate those ones that we perceive as closer to ourselves. It's part of human nature.

By the way, Melphis, the "untouchables" are not japanese, they're part of India's class system

Spend five minutes on xbox live. *nod* you will see....oh, you'll see....

True. Though I'm not sure if they do it because they are racist or if they do it simply because they can get away with saying that stuff. But yeah, it's terrible. Doesn't happen much on FIFA but I've heard people in Halo, I think, and it was really bad.

I'd say it is a problem, but I don't think it's as big of a problem as Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson would like people to believe it is.

They're the ones that are keeping racism alive, to be quite frank, by making any issue into a racial matter.

They're the ones that are keeping racism alive, to be quite frank, by making any issue into a racial matter.

Yeah, it's black people responsible for racism. They just love it!

Classic blame the victim stuff.

True. Though I'm not sure if they do it because they are racist or if they do it simply because they can get away with saying that stuff. But yeah, it's terrible. Doesn't happen much on FIFA but I've heard people in Halo, I think, and it was really bad.

The fact that simple anonymity exponentially increases the likelihood of racist remarks leads me to believe that, conscious or otherwise, there is a strong racist undercurrent in our society. People might say that "oh, that's only the youth" or some such apologist nonsense, but those kids grow up into adults.

I simply don't see how people can honestly believe that American society does not have some fairly strong racism operating within the culture. It's not institutionalized, nor is it always extremely explicit (except when internet anonymity turns humans into brainless meat-sacs) but it is definitely there and observable.

But that's not how it actually operates in, say, European countries. That's just the product of an inaccurate method of operationalisation.

In europe can anyone become the king (if said country has a king) or become nobility if one was not born into it?

in the US any dumb redneck can become president.

conclusion europe is 99% class fluid and USA is 100% class fluid.

They're the ones that are keeping racism alive, to be quite frank, by making any issue into a racial matter.

i entirely agree, they're just manipulating in order to get money and power

Yeah, it's black people responsible for racism. They just love it!

Classic blame the victim stuff.After all, it's pretty convenient for blacks to blame the other people's racism for their own failures.

In europe can anyone become the king (if said country has a king) or become nobility if one was not born into it?

in the US any dumb redneck can become president.

conclusion europe is 99% class fluid and USA is 100% class fluid.

Wait, the British Prime Minister and the German Chancellor were both born to Church ministers.. the President of the U.S is the son of a President. This is what you're basing your argument on?

Yeah, it's black people responsible for racism. They just love it!

Classic blame the victim stuff.


I totally agree

since when do you hear about black guys getting knee-deep into s*** for being anti-white, but as soon as a white person says something even ultra-vaguely racist, its all onto war about it

- - - - -

Indians and hebrews are the severely racist, they each respectively look down at anyone thats not one of them, as s***

Asians are the least racist - they just try to settle down where they go and live their lives however they can

In europe can anyone become the king (if said country has a king) or become nobility if one was not born into it?

in the US any dumb redneck can become president.

conclusion europe is 99% class fluid and USA is 100% class fluid.
Family wealth is the biggest predictor of future wealth in the US. It is harder to leave your class here than almost any other industrialized country.
Yeah, it's black people responsible for racism. They just love it!

Classic blame the victim stuff.
Exactly. If they would just shut up about it, then it would go away.

Do Sharpton and Jackson claim many things are race related that may not be? Sure. Should they stop? No. Because maybe, just maybe, it is. And if it is, then attention needs to be called to it.

Why is an opinion, held by a stranger, a "problem" if they commit no real crime due to it?

I fail to understand why what another believes is of any great consequence.

Like most problems, racism is only a big problem because of the extremists, both the people with extreme racial prejudices and those who promote the negative racial stereotypes. Of course everyone has their own prejudices, but that's really just human nature. The people who say that stupid, innocuous things are racist are the biggest problem. To those people: Not every prejudice against someone of a different race is due to their race.

Wait, the British Prime Minister and the German Chancellor were both born to Church ministers.. the President of the U.S is the son of a President. This is what you're basing your argument on?

I wasn't talking about parliament. I was talking about the king/queen.
Which we as the US has never had so you got to compare to the president.
and yes the current pres is the son of a previous pres, but don't you think it would be unfair to not allow him to be president based off of who his dad was ?
Allowing him to to be president is step toward total mobility.

Why is an opinion, held by a stranger, a "problem" if they commit no real crime due to it?

I fail to understand why what another believes is of any great consequence.

Because it influences how they treat others, and can impact the other persons opportunities (jobs, education, relationships, etc)

Can people not change classes in other countries?

Yes, but our country was built on working your way up. You can be born into wealth, but if you are smart, lucky, or hard-working enough, you can sky rocket up in wealth.

I believe that racism is alive and well today. Everyday someone is pointing out something about race, inquiring about race, making an issue uneven due to racial differences...unfortunately, most of it seems to come from those individuals and groups that supposedly want to stamp out racism.

I suppose it is understandable...many folks tend to point the finger of condemnation at others for things which they detest within themselves.

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Perhaps this is off-topic, but does anyone else become skeptical of a post when there are references and statistics cited? Maybe it's just me, but statistics and supporting authors are hardly a basis for validity...faith does not create fact.

I wasn't talking about parliament. I was talking about the king/queen.
Which we as the US has never had so you got to compare to the president.
and yes the current pres is the son of a previous pres, but don't you think it would be unfair to not allow him to be president based off of who his dad was ?
Allowing him to to be president is step toward total mobility.

The Queen doesn't have a gazillionth of the power the Prime Minister has so I don't why you'd want to compare the President to her (other than because it suits your argument). Regardless, there is no German King so you can compare the Chancellor to the Son-of-a-President President. But wait, that's not de jure inheritence, that's de facto. That makes it okay!

Yes, but our country was built on working your way up. You can be born into wealth, but if you are smart, lucky, or hard-working enough, you can sky rocket up in wealth.

Smart, lucky and hard working people become massively rich in Europe and in Mexico too.

Racism is still a huge problem that I see every day, and I live in one of the most diverse and tolerant places in America. We have so many types of prejudice here that I think most people don't even consider. Racism is usually viewed as "white person doesn't like non-white person", but in the Bay Area it's much more complicated than that. For instance:

Asian people (except Filipinos) don't like black people.
Chinese people don't like Japanese people.
Chinese/Japanese/Korean people don't like Cambodian/Loasian people.
Vietnamese people don't like Latinos.
Africans don't like black people.

Etc, etc. And there is also the white-people-don't-like-non-whites prejudice.

In europe can anyone become the king (if said country has a king) or become nobility if one was not born into it?

in the US any dumb redneck can become president.

conclusion europe is 99% class fluid and USA is 100% class fluid.

Under no circumstances is the U.S. ever 100% class fluid. I'd say more %55. The only true fluid class anymore is the middle class. While people there can go up or down, the upper class rarely moves down, and the lower class rarely moves up.

I think it's still a fairly large problem, along with classism. I've always found it interesting that similar prejudices are often held towards black people and so called "rednecks." While rednecks are often considered most racist, they are targeted by a large amount of prejudice as well (being lazy, unintelligent, etc). Trailer park and ghetto stereotypes are often alike.

Racism is a problem everywhere. Ive met Europians whose racism rivals Klansmen.


Racism doesnt stop at the oceans people. Proportionally, Id wager there are just as many racists in every country.