NationStates Jolt Archive

Believe it or not, oil isnt the only thing running out. The average american uses 300 gallons of freshwater a day. daily showers, brushing teeth, flushing toilet, etc. There are over 300 million people in america.

300x300milion is 90 BILLION gallons of fresh water is used daily in america alone. It takes 3 gallons of water to produce 1 gallon of milk. It takes 4 gallons of water for every 1 gallon of pop. everything uses water.

in the next 20 years, at the rate were going, half of the countries in the world will be in a critical supply of water. Bio diesel will increase this. Im all for switching power sources but thats alot of plants.

97% of water on earth is undrinkable. even less is avaliable. even more is dumping from ice caps to ocean thanks to global warming. So my question is...what are we going to do? water is a non-renewable resource. Like oil.


ideas anyone?

Well, aside from the bleedingly obvious using less water in general, tehre are a couple of ways. We here in South East Australia have been in a fairly severe drought for yonks. There are a few key points that really do make a world of difference.

1) Collecting stormwater. There is more stormwater runoff a year in this city than the entire city uses. something along the lines of 20 billion litres more. You can't drink the stuff, but its more than adequate for washing machines and most certainly for watering the garden. So rainwater tanks rock.

2) Appropriate agriculture. Seriously, people in state are trying to grow stupid crops. Why try to grow rice in a dry climate? Have dry crops for the dry south, and wet crops for the tropical north. It seems easy enough to me. With the ability this country has to export pretty much anything, it's just people being set in their ways. SO much of our drinking water goes to farmers.

3) Water treatment plants. Yes, yes, I know, it SOUNDS bad to be drinking recycled sewage, but in actual fact it's significantly cleaner than most rainwater, AND a shitload cheaper and easier to do than to treat stormwater or, as our state government has decided to do, build a great big whopping desalination plant. Go them :rolleyes:

Most Australians will be able to give you a fairly good idea about water saving. Hell, as a Melbournian I have to bow down to teh superior drought knowledge of those in Perth, Adelaide, and even (somehow) Brisbane. SO ask them.

97% of water on earth is undrinkable. even less is avaliable. even more is dumping from ice caps to ocean thanks to global warming. So my question is...what are we going to do? water is a non-renewable resource. Like oil.


ideas anyone?Isn't it possible to desalt water?

Besides, water is renewable, it's nt like it's gone.

3) Water treatment plants. You mean those are uncommon?:eek:

Thats the problem though. It would take MASSIVE amounts of energy to filter water for the whole world and some parts of the world rarely ever get ANY rain. And its not just the states. Europe uses almost as much water as us! Were not really all that differnt except they drive funny cars and none of thier countries could fit into texas

Isn't it possible to desalt water?

Besides, water is renewable, it's nt like it's gone.

You mean those are uncommon?:eek:

Well, most of the undrinkable water is either toxic or salty. Both take MASSIVE amounts of energy to make drinkable.

Oh, and treatment plants for DRINKING water aren't common... well, not in ass-backwards countries like ours :p

(Note: I do not necessarily believe Australia is ass-backward. More ass-sideways...)

Well, most of the undrinkable water is either toxic or salty. Both take MASSIVE amounts of energy to make drinkable.You could use the sun to evaporate the water, leaving the salt behind. Repeat that a couple of times and you have fairly fresh water, shouldn't be a problem if you have lots of sun, like Australia. But what do I know.:p

Oh, and treatment plants for DRINKING water aren't common... well, not in ass-backwards countries like ours :pPfffrt, they are here in Europe:p

(Note: I do not necessarily believe Australia is ass-backward. More ass-sideways...)we still love you guys.:p

And how in the world is water a renewable resource? Thats like saying americans will embrace soccer and up their players pay :)

Well, most of the undrinkable water is either toxic or salty. Both take MASSIVE amounts of energy to make drinkable.

Oh, and treatment plants for DRINKING water aren't common... well, not in ass-backwards countries like ours :p

(Note: I do not necessarily believe Australia is ass-backward. More ass-sideways...)

we can't be ass-backward seeing WA building a treatment plant to make drinking water

You could use the sun to evaporate the water, leaving the salt behind. Repeat that a couple of times and you have fairly fresh water, shouldn't be a problem if you have lots of sun, like Australia. But what do I know.:p

Pfffrt, they are here in Europe:p

we still love you guys.:p

So were going to evaporate water, catch it in mid air, repeat multiple times, and then do this 10000000000 times all over the world

And how in the world is water a renewable resource? Thats like saying americans will embrace soccer and up their players pay :)Well, you can filter and clean it and then you have it again?

we can't be ass-backward seeing WA building a treatment plant to make drinking water

Actually, you are correct. I apologise. In fact, Brisbane did it too. So I'll stick with NSW and Victoria.

Yep. You'd think we'd have a better clue.

Well, you can filter and clean it and then you have it again?

All your doing is taking away the salt. I f I have a gallon of water with salt and I remove the salt, Ive still only got a gallon of water

All your doing is taking away the salt. I f I have a gallon of water with salt and I remove the salt, Ive still only got a gallon of waterThen what's the problem?

You could use the sun to evaporate the water, leaving the salt behind. Repeat that a couple of times and you have fairly fresh water, shouldn't be a problem if you have lots of sun, like Australia. But what do I know.:p

It's all about scale, my friend. On a small scale, for a very small amount of drinking water for a single person, that works. Otherwise, its just too difficult

Pfffrt, they are here in Europe:p
That's coz Europe rocks my socks.

we still love you guys.:p
Naww, aren't you sweet. But then, who doesn't love asses being backwards? Or sideways, for that matter... or just in general.

Actually, you are correct. I apologise. In fact, Brisbane did it too. So I'll stick with NSW and Victoria.

Yep. You'd think we'd have a better clue.

lol

It's all about scale, my friend. On a small scale, for a very small amount of drinking water for a single person, that works. Otherwise, its just too difficult

LOL in america we take DAILY showers. Its nice and all...but do you know how greedy that is? with all that water you could save 10 people from dying of thirst in africa

It's all about scale, my friend. On a small scale, for a very small amount of drinking water for a single person, that works. Otherwise, its just too difficultWe have water here, it's your problem to figure that out.:p


That's coz Europe rocks my socks.:fluffle:


Naww, aren't you sweet. But then, who doesn't love asses being backwards? Or sideways, for that matter... or just in general.Asshaters.;)

It's all about scale, my friend. On a small scale, for a very small amount of drinking water for a single person, that works. Otherwise, its just too difficult

<snip>

Nonsense. It's easy to purify water with fairly low energy, and similarly easy to desalinate it. Then you just scale the result up. Use large shallow tanks, and have them greenhouse style, with sloped roofs. Sun shines on it, heats up. Water evaporates, condenses on the roof, flows into the next. Repeat a couple times, and lovely pure water. Then you just use several tanks, so that you clean out the salt from one at a time. I'll bet you I could set it up with a few acres of land and some cash.

As for purifying without desalinating, the easiest way to do that is large filtration systems. Again, quite simple and easy, and then just scale it up.

300 gallons a person????
i just got a water bill here, my house is using 233 liters per day... - split between 2 people, thats what 115L each.

according to some random web site thats 25.30 Gallons a day.

Now i grant we dont water the garden at all, but according to this (http://conservewater.melbournewater.com.au/content/usage.asp)


In an average year, metropolitan Melbourne consumes around 500 GL of water.

That averages 391.4 Litres per person (calculated at 3.5 million ppl in Melbourne) per day, so 86.1 Gallons... And that includes all industry usage inside the metro area.

1) 300 gallons? Are you serious? That's like, what, 1350 litres. Which would weigh a ton and a half. I think not.

2) Water does not magically disappear, shocking as this may sound. It goes back into rivers or even just the ground and will come back around eventually. Treat the damned stuff and you'll be fine.

3) Africa is fucked beyond repair.

Believe it or not, oil isnt the only thing running out. The average american uses 300 gallons of freshwater a day. daily showers, brushing teeth, flushing toilet, etc. There are over 300 million people in america.

300x300milion is 90 BILLION gallons of fresh water is used daily in america alone. It takes 3 gallons of water to produce 1 gallon of milk. It takes 4 gallons of water for every 1 gallon of pop. everything uses water.

in the next 20 years, at the rate were going, half of the countries in the world will be in a critical supply of water. Bio diesel will increase this. Im all for switching power sources but thats alot of plants.

97% of water on earth is undrinkable. even less is avaliable. even more is dumping from ice caps to ocean thanks to global warming. So my question is...what are we going to do? water is a non-renewable resource. Like oil.


ideas anyone?
First off, we need to decrease water usage. There are plenty of ways of doing that by a whole truckload without seriously affecting our lifestyles. (Most of them involve simply being much more careful about turning the water off when you're not directly using it.)

Secondly, we need new sources of water. The best available sources would either be the ice caps--freshwater--or desalinized sea water. Either one requires some resources to acquire, but they can both be done. I personally would favor serious improvements in desalinization techniques with ice cap water retrieval being a temporary measure, since that way we won't have to rely on huge amounts of travel over seas.


Thirdly, we need to reclaim the water we do use a lot more than we already are. We need to get over this thing we have about not doing that and get it done. It can be done safely and effectively--technology already exists for this on places like the International Space Station--and with some effort and some more research the technology can easily be improved and made widespread and cheaply effective. That ought to triple our effective water reserves or more right there alone.

Fourthly, there are other ways to get water, including combining hydrogen with oxygen, though that's an expensive process.

The water crisis, as it is, will not be that difficult to solve. Unfortunately, like so many similar things, it requires a lot of action right now, rather than a lot of dithering around, penis and breast waving our way to idiocy.

Water=renewable
Water shortage in US=scaremongering
Scaremongering= New Government department
New Government department= $$$$$$$ for scaremongerers.

Water=renewable

Yes, but as mentioned "renewing" it can become quite costly.

I called this like month ago.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13614161&postcount=1

LOL in america we take DAILY showers. Its nice and all...but do you know how greedy that is? with all that water you could save 10 people from dying of thirst in africa

Ahhh christ not a remake of "there's starving kids in China, Africa or wherever". If I take less showers some kid in Africa will not have more drinking water.

Water=renewable
Water shortage in US=scaremongering
Scaremongering= New Government department
New Government department= $$$$$$$ for scaremongerers.

Broke down to it's basic form.

ideas anyone?

Dry water to a powder and store it for later. Instant water. Problem solved. :D

Desalination plants are probably the wave of the future.

http://www.edwardsaquifer.net/desalination.html

Ahhh christ not a remake of "there's starving kids in China, Africa or wherever". If I take less showers some kid in Africa will not have more drinking water.

and you will have fewer friends. ...nods...:eek:

and you will have fewer friends. ...nods...:eek:

My monkeyshere is about at it's limit right now. So in theory I couldn't care about any more. ;)

1) 300 gallons? Are you serious? That's like, what, 1350 litres. Which would weigh a ton and a half. I think not.
Sounds reasonable to me. Sum up all water used in a country (Including industry!) divide it by inhabitants and you can easily get such numbers.

Sounds reasonable to me. Sum up all water used in a country (Including industry!) divide it by inhabitants and you can easily get such numbers.

I know it does sound excessive. However the only way to come up with a number is to do such a method as you described. With that it lumps in all industrial use of water for all products the country produces. So if someone thinks that they only use lets say 20-30 gallons they are not calculating in the food and other resources that they consume.

Desalination plants are probably the wave of the future.

http://www.edwardsaquifer.net/desalination.html

What do you do with all the left over salt? Dump it back in the ocean?

The largest use of water in the US is agriculture. It vastly surpasses any other use by far.

The solution there is easy - stop trying to grow water intensive crops in arid climates. Of course, those who get massive subsidies for doing so have a vested interest in maintaining those subsidies, so thats not going to happen.

Hydroponics uses a tiny fraction of the water, so coupled with growing region appropriate foods, we can drastically reduce the water consumption there. Raise the price of water to incorporate the externalities of aquifer depletion and see a substantial shift in people's behavior - no more watering lush lawns in the desert. Then there is collecting rainwater in reservoirs and using aquifers to transport it where needed (though that can have a significant environmental impact). We have so many very simple things that can be done to drastically reduce our water consumption well within environmental sustainability.

The problem is not in the US, even though it is a great way to find absurd numbers of excessive consumption.

Water insecurity is a serious problem in developing nations, not developed ones. They lack appropriate resources to supply their population. Of course you can just say it is simply a Mathusian restraint on massive population explosions, and is thus not a major problem that should be addressed until population growth is restrained in other ways.

Water treatment or desalination is simply too expensive for impoverished countries. Many dry areas are attempting to support huge populations with few water resources, and there is simply no easy solution. Just digging more wells does not work - some areas where compassionate NGOs dug lots of well saw a massive boom in population around these wells, until the wells dried up because they depleted the aquifer, now they are worse off than before. Ignore sustainability at your own peril.

What do you do with all the left over salt? Dump it back in the ocean?

http://www.bolekscrafts.com/bssoo.jpg

What do you do with all the left over salt? Dump it back in the ocean?

Salt is used on a massive scale around the world. Simply sell it for foodstuffs and industrial use. If we can't sell it we can use it to salt our enemies agricultural land!

The largest use of water in the US is agriculture. It vastly surpasses any other use by far.

The solution there is easy - stop trying to grow water intensive crops in arid climates. Of course, those who get massive subsidies for doing so have a vested interest in maintaining those subsidies, so thats not going to happen.

Hydroponics uses a tiny fraction of the water, so coupled with growing region appropriate foods, we can drastically reduce the water consumption there. Raise the price of water to incorporate the externalities of aquifer depletion and see a substantial shift in people's behavior - no more watering lush lawns in the desert. Then there is collecting rainwater in reservoirs and using aquifers to transport it where needed (though that can have a significant environmental impact). We have so many very simple things that can be done to drastically reduce our water consumption well within environmental sustainability.

The problem is not in the US, even though it is a great way to find absurd numbers of excessive consumption.

.


Majority of the water used in the US is for agriculture. Simply find better ways of growing crops and we can stave off having to build massive desalination plants for many years.

What you all seem to be forgetting is that we NEED crops. Not as many people as you think build farms in horrible spots. With population on the rise, we dont even have enoughg food to feed half the world

What you all seem to be forgetting is that we NEED crops. Not as many people as you think build farms in horrible spots. With population on the rise, we dont even have enoughg food to feed half the world

That's not really the problem. Its that people aren't growing the right SORT of crops. People are growing very water-intensive crops. Sure, the government gives them MASSIVE subsidies to grow those crops, so they can export them to poor countries... but that's a rant for another time. So quite simply, arid food crops in arid climates and water intensive crops in tropical climes. It just makes sense, does it not?

What you all seem to be forgetting is that we NEED crops. Not as many people as you think build farms in horrible spots. With population on the rise, we dont even have enoughg food to feed half the world
Which is why half the world dies of hunger each day. :rolleyes:

Which is why half the world dies of hunger each day. :rolleyes:

Yes?

What you all seem to be forgetting is that we NEED crops. Not as many people as you think build farms in horrible spots. With population on the rise, we dont even have enoughg food to feed half the world

Yes, we need food, but we produce more than enough as it is - the problem is with distribution, not production. That production can shift to alternate crops and alternate methods of growing crops.

Wheat requires about 2/3rds as much water to grow as corn - simple changing what foods are grown in what areas would massively reduce water usage. Hydroponc produce uses about 1/20th as much water as produce grown on traditional farms. Running out of food is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a concern of water shortage (excepting third world nations using primitive methods to grow inappropriate crops and impose trade barriers preventing the importation of foodstuffs).

As far as why people are starving, it is not because the world doesn't produces enough food, it is a problem of transportation. Corn and soybeans are shipped to Kansas City to be blended together with vitamins and nutrients (enough that a bowl of gruel with a little veg oil provide a full days total nutritional requirements), then it is shipped to a port in Kenya, all for less than the cost of getting those food aid commodities to a warehouse a mere 100 miles inland. That is assuming recipient governments allow the importation of foodstuffs to begin with - being able to control the food supply in a famine is more important to them than making sure people actually get food.

Yes?
No.

No.

Well, I suppose you can be nitpicky about the hyperbole of "half the world", but surely you aren't trying to suggest that there ISN'T a serious hunger problem in the world?

Also, what Entropic Creation said.

We're not running out of water; it's not consumed in the same sense as fossil fuels or other resources that are outright destroyed when consumed...it's a renewable resource that is recycled through the environment.

The main issue is that we're using too much water in some places, depleting the existing reservoirs and disrupting the water table. This is of course undesirable because it means those places will either need to start importing water from more abundant locales or conserve it. Obviously, the latter is the wiser idea since we do waste a fairly significant amount of water, but practically I think it's more plausible people will be willing to pay more to desalinate/recycle/import water from other places than to consume less.

Also, we're not running out of oil, but that's a discussion for another time. Now, we're probably within a decade of peak oil production, but that's far from running out (in fact, we probably have a century-plus left of oil in terms of current reserves).

Well, I suppose you can be nitpicky about the hyperbole of "half the world", but surely you aren't trying to suggest that there ISN'T a serious hunger problem in the world?

Also, what Entropic Creation said.
There is a serious hunger problem. I was talking about East Zamonia's post. And I only agree with the first sentence of EC's post. The problem isn't production, it's distribuition.

I know it does sound excessive. However the only way to come up with a number is to do such a method as you described. With that it lumps in all industrial use of water for all products the country produces. So if someone thinks that they only use lets say 20-30 gallons they are not calculating in the food and other resources that they consume.

True that number is calculated from my water bill - so water used inside this house only...
However the other detail i listed was the 500 gigalitres used by the city a year, averages out to 87 i think gallons per person per day, including industrial usage. - these numbers based on my recollection of my post from last night - dont quote them, check the other post :)

I think we should all drink alcohol instead.

Well, aside from the bleedingly obvious using less water in general, tehre are a couple of ways. We here in South East Australia have been in a fairly severe drought for yonks. There are a few key points that really do make a world of difference.

1) Collecting stormwater. There is more stormwater runoff a year in this city than the entire city uses. something along the lines of 20 billion litres more. You can't drink the stuff, but its more than adequate for washing machines and most certainly for watering the garden. So rainwater tanks rock.

2) Appropriate agriculture. Seriously, people in state are trying to grow stupid crops. Why try to grow rice in a dry climate? Have dry crops for the dry south, and wet crops for the tropical north. It seems easy enough to me. With the ability this country has to export pretty much anything, it's just people being set in their ways. SO much of our drinking water goes to farmers.

3) Water treatment plants. Yes, yes, I know, it SOUNDS bad to be drinking recycled sewage, but in actual fact it's significantly cleaner than most rainwater, AND a shitload cheaper and easier to do than to treat stormwater or, as our state government has decided to do, build a great big whopping desalination plant. Go them :rolleyes:

Most Australians will be able to give you a fairly good idea about water saving. Hell, as a Melbournian I have to bow down to teh superior drought knowledge of those in Perth, Adelaide, and even (somehow) Brisbane. SO ask them.

Maybe Australia should run the world.

I wonder what that would be like.

Australians seem much more in tune with nature than, say, Americans or UKians.

What do you think it would be like?

Believe it or not, oil isnt the only thing running out. The average american uses 300 gallons of freshwater a day. daily showers, brushing teeth, flushing toilet, etc. There are over 300 million people in america.

300x300milion is 90 BILLION gallons of fresh water is used daily in america alone. It takes 3 gallons of water to produce 1 gallon of milk. It takes 4 gallons of water for every 1 gallon of pop. everything uses water.

in the next 20 years, at the rate were going, half of the countries in the world will be in a critical supply of water. Bio diesel will increase this. Im all for switching power sources but thats alot of plants.

97% of water on earth is undrinkable. even less is avaliable. even more is dumping from ice caps to ocean thanks to global warming. So my question is...what are we going to do? water is a non-renewable resource. Like oil.


ideas anyone?

My bold, QFD. Any introductory geology class will teach you about the water cycle. Water is not only renewable, but manages to renew itself without any help from us. Could we be more efficient in its usage? Of course! Should we get in a tizzy and crash our economies over an invented "crisis"? Please, no.

My bold, QFD. Any introductory geology class will teach you about the water cycle. Water is not only renewable, but manages to renew itself without any help from us. Could we be more efficient in its usage? Of course! Should we get in a tizzy and crash our economies over an invented "crisis"? Please, no.

One assumes you want clean water to drink. Or do you like chlorine ?

Maybe Australia should run the world.

I wonder what that would be like.

Australians seem much more in tune with nature than, say, Americans or UKians.

What do you think it would be like?

I think Australia should run the world. Then all the cool bits of the world will be really really super extra good, with rainbows and ponies and sunshine, but all the remote ass-ends of the world will be shit holes. So, like now, but with sunshine and rainbows :p:eek:

And yeah, MOST Australians tend to be fairly environmentally aware. Hell, although the Greens didn't get any seats in the last election (In the House of Reps anyway), they got approximately %10 vote nationally. And 8 out of 74 seats in the Upper House. Getting there quick, yes?

Its coz Australia is very dependent upon its environment, we are so incredibly low lying, in an atmospherically unpredictable part of the world, and our natural environs are quite delicate.

Plus, we just rock :p

And how in the world is water a renewable resource? Thats like saying americans will embrace soccer and up their players pay :)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Water_cycle.png/800px-Water_cycle.png

Believe it or not, oil isnt the only thing running out. The average american uses 300 gallons of freshwater a day. daily showers, brushing teeth, flushing toilet, etc. There are over 300 million people in america.

300x300milion is 90 BILLION gallons of fresh water is used daily in america alone. It takes 3 gallons of water to produce 1 gallon of milk. It takes 4 gallons of water for every 1 gallon of pop. everything uses water.

in the next 20 years, at the rate were going, half of the countries in the world will be in a critical supply of water. Bio diesel will increase this. Im all for switching power sources but thats alot of plants.

97% of water on earth is undrinkable. even less is avaliable. even more is dumping from ice caps to ocean thanks to global warming. So my question is...what are we going to do? water is a non-renewable resource. Like oil.


ideas anyone?

Move to the UK, we tend to get rained on a lot!

Use solar power to desalinise sea water, and solar power to pump it wherever you want.

Cheap, technically feasible, easy maintenance, almost zero pollution.

Down with Wal Mart!

Seriously though, we've got no less water than we've had before, this is just a fabricated crisis from nothing, so sit back, relax and enjoy that glass o'water and worry about other things.