NationStates Jolt Archive


Florida Wants Christian License Plates

Sumamba Buwhan
24-04-2008, 23:18
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080424/ap_on_re_us/religious_license_plate

excerpt:
MIAMI - Florida drivers can order more than 100 specialty license plates celebrating everything from manatees to the Miami Heat, but one now under consideration would be the first in the nation to explicitly promote a specific religion.
ADVERTISEMENT

The Florida Legislature is considering a specialty plate with a design that includes a Christian cross, a stained-glass window and the words "I Believe."

Rep. Edward Bullard, the plate's sponsor, said people who "believe in their college or university" or "believe in their football team" already have license plates they can buy. The new design is a chance for others to put a tag on their cars with "something they believe in," he said.

If the plate is approved, Florida would become the first state to have a license plate featuring a religious symbol that's not part of a college logo. Approval would almost certainly face a court challenge.

The problem with the state manufacturing the plate is that it "sends a message that Florida is essentially a Christian state" and, second, gives the "appearance that the state is endorsing a particular religious preference," said Howard Simon, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida.

The "I Believe" license plate still has a way to go before it reaches the roads. The proposal is part of a package of license plates being debated in the Senate and ready for a floor vote. In the House, the bill that would authorize the plate has passed one committee 8-2. The Legislature's annual session ends May 2.

Some lawmakers say the state should be careful. Rep. Kelly Skidmore said she is a Roman Catholic and goes to Mass on Sundays, but she believes the "I Believe" plate is inappropriate for the government to produce.

"It's not a road I want to go down. I don't want to see the Star of David next. I don't want to see a Torah next. None of that stuff is appropriate to me," said Skidmore, a Democrat who voted against the plate in committee. "I just believe that."


I don't think a govt. body should be promoting any single religion while ignoring all of the others, but I don't think I would be against a plate that featured symbols of all the major religions at once as long as they perhaps made a non-believer/agnostic plate as well. Although, isn't this what bumper stickers are for?
Dyakovo
24-04-2008, 23:23
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080424/ap_on_re_us/religious_license_plate

excerpt:



I don't think a govt. body should be promoting any single religion while ignoring all of the others, but I don't think I would be against a plate that featured symbols of all the major religions at once as long as they perhaps made a non-believer/agnostic plate as well. Although, isn't this what bumper stickers are for?

I don't think a government body should be promoting religion at all.
Kryozerkia
24-04-2008, 23:24
Somehow I get the feeling that less desirable ones would be excluded along with some flimsy excuse about demographics... :rolleyes:
Veblenia
24-04-2008, 23:28
I don't think a government body should be promoting religion at all.

I actually don't see how this is promoting religion rather than exploiting it. People have to pay extra for these plates, don't they?
Galloism
24-04-2008, 23:30
Am I surprised? No.........

This state sucks. I wish I could move somewhere with more violent crime and less religion.
Dyakovo
24-04-2008, 23:32
I actually don't see how this is promoting religion rather than exploiting it. People have to pay extra for these plates, don't they?

Yes, they do have to pay extra for it.
It is promoting a religion, having a religious symbol on the license plate, which is issued by the state, implies that the state is endorsing said religion.
Sumamba Buwhan
24-04-2008, 23:33
They should also have satanist and pagan license places. The Flying Spaghetti Monster license plates should just be the standard though.
Dyakovo
24-04-2008, 23:36
Am I surprised? No.........

This state sucks. I wish I could move somewhere with more violent crime and less religion.

May I suggest moving to St. Louis, Missouri or Detroit, Michigan then?
St. Louis Ranked Most Dangerous U.S. City; Detroit Is Second

By Nick Allen

Oct. 30 (Bloomberg) -- Days after St. Louis beat Detroit in the baseball World Series, the city again edged its rival, this time for the unwanted title of most dangerous city in the U.S.

The league of shame was based on FBI crime figures for 2005 in the six categories of murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault, burglary and motor vehicle theft. Lawrence, Kansas-based research company Morgan Quitno Press compiled the results in its 13th annual list of the U.S.'s most dangerous and safest cities.

``There is some good news,'' Morgan Quitno President Scott Morgan said in an e-mailed statement today. ``St. Louis's property crime rate has fallen 14 percent since 2001.''

St. Louis was the third-most dangerous city in last year's rankings and replaced Camden, New Jersey, this year as the worst of the 371 cities on the list. Detroit was judged the second-most dangerous city and Flint, Michigan, was third. Washington was 19th, Los Angeles was 122nd and New York was 227th.

The safest city in the U.S. was Brick, New Jersey, followed by Amherst, New York, and Mission Viejo, California. Brick has ranked as one of the top five safest U.S. cities in each of the past six years.

The Midwest experienced the steepest increase in violent crime, 5.7 percent, in the U.S. in 2005, according to FBI figures released in June. The murder rate in St. Louis jumped 16 percent compared to 4.8 percent nationally.
Sumamba Buwhan
24-04-2008, 23:40
They should also have satanist and pagan license places. The Flying Spaghetti Monster license plates should just be the standard though.
Khadgar
24-04-2008, 23:40
Indiana had some "In God we trust" plates last year. That went over like a lead balloon. I think the ACLU sued them. They're just blank now.
Galloism
24-04-2008, 23:43
May I suggest moving to St. Louis, Missouri or Detroit, Michigan then?

Well, the problem is is that I'm already on SWAT here. If I moved to St. Louis, I would have to spend at least a year on the general force before I could apply for SWAT again.

I don't want to go back to being a traffic cop. People suck when you pull them over. I could probably arrest 20% of them on the spot just for the way they act towards me.

I never even pull people over for speeding (unless it's egregious). It's usually turning/switching lanes without signaling, running stop signs/red lights, that sort of thing.
New Ziedrich
24-04-2008, 23:45
This is ridiculous. Hopefully it will be a complete failure.

Are there any states that offer, say, gay pride plates?
Sumamba Buwhan
24-04-2008, 23:48
I would think a gay pride plate would be completely different from a religious plate.

http://www.mstc.state.ms.us/mvl/nascar/Generic.jpg
New Ziedrich
24-04-2008, 23:51
I would think a gay pride plate would be completely different from a religious plate.

http://www.mstc.state.ms.us/mvl/nascar/Generic.jpg

I know, I just wanted to throw that out there.
JuNii
24-04-2008, 23:55
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080424/ap_on_re_us/religious_license_plate

excerpt:



I don't think a govt. body should be promoting any single religion while ignoring all of the others, but I don't think I would be against a plate that featured symbols of all the major religions at once as long as they perhaps made a non-believer/agnostic plate as well. Although, isn't this what bumper stickers are for?

Hmmm... as a Christian, I don't have any problems with such licence plates. ;)

but the side of me that likes Fair Play would like to see other religions represented.

but what, for the Atheist/Agnostic? a "I Believe ?" or an atom sign?
Galloism
24-04-2008, 23:58
Hmmm... as a Christian, I don't have any problems with such licence plates. ;)

but the side of me that likes Fair Play would like to see other religions represented.

but what, for the Atheist/Agnostic? a "I Believe ?" or an atom sign?

I'm not even an atheist and I think an Atom would be a pretty cool graphic for a license plate.
JuNii
25-04-2008, 00:01
I'm not even an atheist and I think an Atom would be a pretty cool graphic for a license plate.

I know... there's soo much cool symbols out there for science.

the Atom, the Double Helix, the winged staff (Medical), an Florence flask, a lit Bunson Burner...
Sumamba Buwhan
25-04-2008, 00:02
maybe the darwin fish :P
NERVUN
25-04-2008, 00:06
I'm not even an atheist and I think an Atom would be a pretty cool graphic for a license plate.
Tried that in Nevada and it did NOT go over too well.



Of course there were other issues, but... ;)
Kirchensittenbach
25-04-2008, 00:08
:eek: Christian licence plates in Florida:eek:

I dont see that happening anytime soon with all those psycho hebrews in florida
Honsria
25-04-2008, 00:09
It just never stops. I say no to this, because it is the only way to avoid a shit-storm in the aftermath.
Nanatsu no Tsuki
25-04-2008, 00:10
This is all I have to say:

WTF?!:eek:
Honsria
25-04-2008, 00:10
:eek: Christian licence plates in Florida:eek:

I dont see that happening anytime soon with all those psycho hebrews in florida

What exactly is your problem?
Dyakovo
25-04-2008, 00:12
What exactly is your problem?

He's a raving lunatic and a bigot.
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff315/Sarothai/Smileys/Imperial_eagle.jpg___http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff315/Sarothai/Smileys/AngryGerman.gif___http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff315/Sarothai/Smileys/Imperial_eagle.jpg
Ryadn
25-04-2008, 00:47
Am I surprised? No.........

This state sucks. I wish I could move somewhere with more violent crime and less religion.

May I suggest California? Although the murder rate in Oakland is slightly down this year... but they always make up for it with a big push in December.

Indiana had some "In God we trust" plates last year. That went over like a lead balloon. I think the ACLU sued them. They're just blank now.

But we can't get it off of our money. Ironical.

:eek: Christian licence plates in Florida:eek:

I dont see that happening anytime soon with all those psycho hebrews in florida

Are you still around? I hadn't seen your name in awhile, I thought the house that came after your sister had finally landed on you.
Honsria
25-04-2008, 00:49
May I suggest California? Although the murder rate in Oakland is slightly down this year... but they always make up for it with a big push in December.

You could, but they're just as freaking crazy out there as they are in Florida. Californians just know how to fill out a ballot, that's all.
Camdria
25-04-2008, 01:19
They should also have satanist and pagan license places. The Flying Spaghetti Monster license plates should just be the standard though.

Ramen ;D
Call to power
25-04-2008, 01:20
call my crazy but isn't this just some good clean fun?
Dyakovo
25-04-2008, 01:22
call my crazy but isn't this just some good clean fun?

No
Bann-ed
25-04-2008, 01:22
I don't see a problem with this, you don't even need to buy it.

However, I feel that the state should produce a variety of these religiously themed license plates for various faiths, so there is a level playing field and people who want one for their religion can get one.
Dyakovo
25-04-2008, 01:23
I don't see a problem with this, you don't even need to buy it.

However, I feel that the state should produce a variety of these religiously themed license plates for various faiths, so there is a level playing field and people who want one for their religion can get one.

Then obviously you are christian and/or not American.
Bann-ed
25-04-2008, 01:27
Then obviously you are christian and/or not American.

Uhm.. why?

The state isn't promoting any religion by giving people an option to buy a license plate with a cross on it. Seriously.

If they started making it the general state license plate.. then yes.


Edit: Otherwise it is similar to saying that the government shouldn't allow places of worship because it gives people the option of where/if to worship at locations. If they suddenly banned all but one type of worshipping place, then it would be bad.
Callisdrun
25-04-2008, 01:27
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080424/ap_on_re_us/religious_license_plate

I don't think a govt. body should be promoting any single religion while ignoring all of the others, but I don't think I would be against a plate that featured symbols of all the major religions at once as long as they perhaps made a non-believer/agnostic plate as well. Although, isn't this what bumper stickers are for?

I'm not against it either. As long as Satanists and followers of Pagan religions can get their own special license plates, too.
Call to power
25-04-2008, 01:28
No

so wait, what your saying is if a bunch of people want some crap on a license plate it isn't good fun but is actually part of a vast Christian conspiracy to usurp freedom?

I think your really making too much of a big deal out of this
Dyakovo
25-04-2008, 01:28
The state isn't promoting any religion by giving people an option to buy a license plate with a cross on it. Seriously.

When that is the only religion that they are doing it for, yes they are.
Callisdrun
25-04-2008, 01:28
You could, but they're just as freaking crazy out there as they are in Florida. Californians just know how to fill out a ballot, that's all.

And we're crazy in different (better) ways.
Dyakovo
25-04-2008, 01:29
so wait, what your saying is if a bunch of people want some crap on a license plate it isn't good fun but is actually part of a vast Christian conspiracy to usurp freedom?
I never said anything about any "vast christian conspiracy"
I think your really making too much of a big deal out of this
Maybe, maybe not
Bann-ed
25-04-2008, 01:30
When that is the only religion that they are doing it for, yes they are.

Not to sound rude/redundant, but did you read the second half of my post?
Soyut
25-04-2008, 01:30
Indiana had some "In God we trust" plates last year. That went over like a lead balloon. I think the ACLU sued them. They're just blank now.

Hold on, back up. How is it that we have that printed on our money then?
greed and death
25-04-2008, 01:30
I see no problem with this. It is the state simply providing something there is a demand for.
Honsria
25-04-2008, 01:34
Hold on, back up. How is it that we have that printed on our money then?

Tradition, and the Red Scare. And tradition.
Bann-ed
25-04-2008, 01:34
Hold on, back up. How is it that we have that printed on our money then?

Massive recall?
Dyakovo
25-04-2008, 01:35
Not to sound rude/redundant, but did you read the second half of my post?

Yes, my last response was in reference to what they are doing/trying to do, which does not include having religious plates for other religions, not specifically to you.
Honsria
25-04-2008, 01:35
I see no problem with this. It is the state simply providing something there is a demand for.

Well, that sort of logic doesn't exactly work. There are a lot of things that have massive demand, but the state can't provide because providing them would involve breaking the laws of the state. This is a question of whether providing the plate would break a law or not.
Soyut
25-04-2008, 01:36
I don't see a problem with this, you don't even need to buy it.

However, I feel that the state should produce a variety of these religiously themed license plates for various faiths, so there is a level playing field and people who want one for their religion can get one.

This isn't a big deal for me either, but when you have a piece of metal that says "State of Florida" right next to the Christian cross, thats a violation of the first Amendment.
Marrakech II
25-04-2008, 01:37
Hold on, back up. How is it that we have that printed on our money then?

ACLU can get away with going after a single state plate but if they were to go after the US currency that would be a much bigger fish. US Supreme Court would get involved and for the most part people don't like when you mess with their money. ;)
Call to power
25-04-2008, 01:39
When that is the only religion that they are doing it for, yes they are.

well then get some friends together and ask (assuming your from the Kingdom of Florida) the government to give you another religion, if they don't then you may have a case but seeing as how nobody cares about license plates that seems unlikely

Maybe, maybe not

I suggest going on a violent rampage to protect the infallible constitution before you think of something better to do :)
Bann-ed
25-04-2008, 01:40
Yes, my last response was in reference to what they are doing/trying to do, which does not include having religious plates for other religions, not specifically to you.

Ah. Well, for the record, I am an agnostic Christian who attends a Catholic Church.

Anyway. Currently they may have produced the Christian themed one due to the larger demand. Generally products start as mainstream as possible and then get more specific as more people are introduced and start requesting more 'specialized' versions of the item. I can't see an overwhelming demand for an athiest themed license plate, so it is possible they are just starting with what seems the most likely to go somewhere.

If they stop here and refuse to make any other kinds of plates, I have a problem with it.

Personally, I wouldn't be offended by what is on people's license plates unless it was extraordinarily innappropriate and I was stuck behind said license plate in traffic for an hour, with my young kids continually asking me what the heck was going on with that plate. (hypothetically of course)
Bann-ed
25-04-2008, 01:42
This isn't a big deal for me either, but when you have a piece of metal that says "State of Florida" right next to the Christian cross, thats a violation of the first Amendment.

I never thought about it like that, but I suppose the state license plate is technically government property. (or at least owned and distributed by the government) So any religious symbols on the plates mean the government is indirectly sponsoring a certain religion... hrm..
Katganistan
25-04-2008, 01:42
Yes, they do have to pay extra for it.
It is promoting a religion, having a religious symbol on the license plate, which is issued by the state, implies that the state is endorsing said religion.

Nah, it's just saying people have too much money and are willing to use it on vanity plates.... and isn't that sinful?
Dyakovo
25-04-2008, 01:43
Ah. Well, for the record, I am an agnostic Christian who attends a Catholic Church.

Anyway. Currently they may have produce the Christian themed one due to the larger demand. Generally products start as mainstream as possible and then get more specific as more people are introduced and start requesting more 'specialized' versions of the item. I can't see an overwhelming demand for an athiest themed license plate, so it is possible they are just starting with what seems the most likely to go somewhere.
Possibly, okay agree completely you about atheist license plates.
If they stop here and refuse to make any other kinds of plates, I have a problem with it.
That is what I expect of them, thusly my problem with it.
Personally, I wouldn't be offended by what is on people's license plates unless it was extraordinarily innappropriate and I was stuck behind said license plate in traffic for an hour, with my young kids continually asking me what the heck was going on with that plate. (hypothetically of course)

I wouldn't be offended about it, just annoyed.
New Limacon
25-04-2008, 01:43
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080424/ap_on_re_us/religious_license_plate

excerpt:



I don't think a govt. body should be promoting any single religion while ignoring all of the others, but I don't think I would be against a plate that featured symbols of all the major religions at once as long as they perhaps made a non-believer/agnostic plate as well. Although, isn't this what bumper stickers are for?

I think they already do that; I have one. It just has your license plate number and nothing else.
Bann-ed
25-04-2008, 01:44
Nah, it's just saying people have too much money and are willing to use it on vanity plates.... and isn't that sinful?

Not if you bought your monthly Indulgences.
Dyakovo
25-04-2008, 01:46
I think they already do that; I have one. It just has your license plate number and nothing else.

:D
Bann-ed
25-04-2008, 01:46
That is what I expect of them, thusly my problem with it.
We'll see how it pans out.
I wouldn't be offended about it, just annoyed.
Offended may have been the wrong word. It was a bit of a stretched scenario.
Call to power
25-04-2008, 01:46
This isn't a big deal for me either, but when you have a piece of metal that says "State of Florida" right next to the Christian cross, thats a violation of the first Amendment.

I'd be more worried about a constitution being taken way to far myself, considering the way of interpretation you should be too!
Soyut
25-04-2008, 02:49
I'd be more worried about a constitution being taken way to far myself, considering the way of interpretation you should be too!

I think you are underestimating this issue. This is unconstitutional of course. It promotes a religion. On the surface, it seems a little silly. These people just want to have crosses on their plates so let them right? But this is in fact a step towards theocracy. You and I know the truth about these dumb custom plates, but what could another person think? That Florida is a Christian State? That Florida prefers Christian drivers? This is a step in the wrong direction and besides, drivers have a whole rear bumper that they can cover with whatever religious symbols they want.
Potarius
25-04-2008, 03:35
I think the general consensus is that Florida is really fucking stupid.
Balderdash71964
25-04-2008, 03:45
Florida has 109 specialty license plates.
That's 109 different options (http://www.flhsmv.gov/specialtytags/tagsales2007.pdf) already.

IF the Christian plate is passed, which it has not passed yet, then it is just one more in the many. I can get "Save the Manatees", "Invest in Children", "NASCAR" or "Trees are Cool" and nobody complains about it. Make one with a cross that says "I believe" though and all of a sudden it makes national news and the people in other states start complaining that the government in Florida shouldn't be offering specialty plates to try and make a few bucks outside of normal plate fees... :rolleyes:

(as to the mention of the ACLU suing a different state for putting "In God we Trust" on their plates, for the record, the ACLU lost that case [but they are likely to appeal]).
[NS]Schwullunde
25-04-2008, 03:51
sorry folks, "the Seperation of Church and State" does not appear anywhere in the constitution

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

the idea of seperation of church and state was espouced by Thomas Jefferson, but never really made it into the constitution.

specificly the 1st amendment only protects the ability of religious groups to form and meet.
in fact it protects Cults, and unpopular religions.

the constitution, like the bible is one of those documents that has been misinterprated ever sense it was printed.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
that said as long as they have a plate for all religions I really don't have a problem with it.

to bad that this is just one more salvo in the constant and often bloody war being fought by the Christian right and the ACLU,etc.

just a little note: I am sure Jesus is not amused by the constant misuse of his name for these little fights. this is all about "in your face" power nothing more.

I am so sick of this little game of "look at me, look at me" played by both sides.
Balderdash71964
25-04-2008, 03:58
Schwullunde;13639550']...
that said as long as they have a plate for all religions I really don't have a problem with it.
....

They freely admit that they will NOT have one for every religion, they have special interest groups plates sold for 'profit', not equality. Here's a list of some....

A State of Vision
Agricultural Education
Agriculture
American Red Cross
Boy Scouts of America
Challenger/Columbia
Choose Life
Corrections Foundation
Donate Organs
End Breast Cancer
Family First
Family Values
Florida Arts
Florida Educational
Florida Golf Capital of the World
Florida Salutes Veterans
Florida Sheriff's Youth Ranch
Florida Special Olympic
Hospice: Everyday is a Gift
Imagine
Invest in Children
Keep Kids Drug Free
Kids Deserve Justice
Live the Dream
Motorcycle Specialty
NASCAR
Parents Make A Difference
Police Athletic League
Police Benevolent Association
Salutes Firefighters
Share the Road
Stop Child Abuse
Stop Heart Disease
Support Homeownership For All
Support Our Troops
Support Soccer
U.S. Air Force
U.S. Army
U.S. Coast Guard
U.S. Marine Corps
U.S. Navy
U.S. Olympic
U.S. Paratroopers
United We Stand

http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/specialtytags/
[NS]Schwullunde
25-04-2008, 04:02
then petition the Government for a redress of grievances by demanding Equal access to vanity plates espoucing whatever you want them to. Go on a petition drive.


oh and isn't it funny here I am a Christian, Former U.S. Army,Gay, Liberal Centrist defending the Christian right. Who by the way Absolutely hate me.
Nanatsu no Tsuki
25-04-2008, 04:05
Ok, if they´re to have Christian license plate in FL, then the state should also ask for Atheist, Democrat, Republican, Communist and Socialist plates too. Oh, and also Vegan and Straight or Gay plates. Sheesh! Isn´t there anything better to do in FL, like, fix real problems?:rolleyes:
Potarius
25-04-2008, 04:06
Isn´t there anything better to do in FL, like, fix real problems?:rolleyes:

The only thing Florida's fixed in the past decade is an election. :p
Smunkeeville
25-04-2008, 04:06
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080424/ap_on_re_us/religious_license_plate

excerpt:



I don't think a govt. body should be promoting any single religion while ignoring all of the others, but I don't think I would be against a plate that featured symbols of all the major religions at once as long as they perhaps made a non-believer/agnostic plate as well. Although, isn't this what bumper stickers are for?
We have like 100 here too. I didn't see any religious ones on the list. I'm undecided on the issue.
Nanatsu no Tsuki
25-04-2008, 04:08
The only thing Florida's fixed in the past decade is an election. :p

LOL! Well, besides that.:D
Lunatic Goofballs
25-04-2008, 04:08
They should also have satanist and pagan license places. The Flying Spaghetti Monster license plates should just be the standard though.

Indeed.
[NS]Schwullunde
25-04-2008, 04:09
:rolleyes:
Lord Scharrer
25-04-2008, 04:23
I'm fine with as long as I can get a plate with Baphomet on it, I'm happy ;)
Igneria
25-04-2008, 04:34
I don't think its really worth the controversy. Although if they're going to have a load of people buying these, they should just make them for a bunch of religions so no one complains.
Dempublicents1
25-04-2008, 04:40
I don't see a problem with this, you don't even need to buy it.

However, I feel that the state should produce a variety of these religiously themed license plates for various faiths, so there is a level playing field and people who want one for their religion can get one.

^This, essentially.

Because of the extra payment and the fact that such plates cover a wide variety of causes, I don't see a problem with allowing religiously-themed plates in general. However, a member of any religion who wants one must have equal access. It is not appropriate for a Christian-themed plate to be offered while no other religions are represented.
Dempublicents1
25-04-2008, 04:44
This isn't a big deal for me either, but when you have a piece of metal that says "State of Florida" right next to the Christian cross, thats a violation of the first Amendment.

There are military veterans buried in graveyards that are state-owned and run. Each individual gets a marker for his grave that matches his religion (or lack thereof). While there have been struggles to ensure that any religion can be represented, I haven't heard anyone suggesting that it is somehow a breach of the separate of church and state for this to be allowed. Why? Because it clearly represents the individual's faith - not that of the government.

These types of plates are similar. They represent the views of the person who owns the car, not the views of the state. If it were the standard plate, I'd have a problem with it.
CthulhuFhtagn
25-04-2008, 05:22
Schwullunde;13639550']specificly the 1st amendment only protects the ability of religious groups to form and meet.

Not according to the actual text of the first amendment, and over two hundred years of Supreme Court precedent.
CthulhuFhtagn
25-04-2008, 05:23
There are military veterans buried in graveyards that are state-owned and run. Each individual gets a marker for his grave that matches his religion (or lack thereof). While there have been struggles to ensure that any religion can be represented, I haven't heard anyone suggesting that it is somehow a breach of the separate of church and state for this to be allowed. Why? Because it clearly represents the individual's faith - not that of the government.

These types of plates are similar. They represent the views of the person who owns the car, not the views of the state. If it were the standard plate, I'd have a problem with it.

The comparison is flawed in that options for any other religion besides Christianity are not offered.
40 Day Limit
25-04-2008, 18:16
I think you are underestimating this issue. This is unconstitutional of course. It promotes a religion. On the surface, it seems a little silly. These people just want to have crosses on their plates so let them right? But this is in fact a step towards theocracy. You and I know the truth about these dumb custom plates, but what could another person think? That Florida is a Christian State? That Florida prefers Christian drivers? This is a step in the wrong direction and besides, drivers have a whole rear bumper that they can cover with whatever religious symbols they want.

I think you are overestimating this issue. So are you saying that a plate with a picture of a manatee is saying that Florida prefers Manatee drivers? Are you saying that a plate with a Seminole Indian logo on it is saying that Florida prefers people who go to that particualr school?

We all know what those plates mean. They dont' reflect the governments preferences, they reflect the drivers preferences. That's just common sense.
Dempublicents1
25-04-2008, 18:23
The comparison is flawed in that options for any other religion besides Christianity are not offered.

Hence the reason that I also said:

I don't see a problem with allowing religiously-themed plates in general. However, a member of any religion who wants one must have equal access. It is not appropriate for a Christian-themed plate to be offered while no other religions are represented.
Tmutarakhan
25-04-2008, 18:23
May I suggest moving to St. Louis, Missouri or Detroit, Michigan then?I don't know about St. Louis, but Detroit is carpeted with churches. I think he's out of luck hoping for a place with more crime and less religion: more crime goes with more religion like white with rice.
40 Day Limit
25-04-2008, 18:25
I don't know about St. Louis, but Detroit is carpeted with churches. I think he's out of luck hoping for a place with more crime and less religion: more crime goes with more religion like white with rice.

:rolleyes:
Nanatsu no Tsuki
25-04-2008, 18:36
:rolleyes:

Lansing is too. I´ve never seen so many churches together in the US.
Galloism
25-04-2008, 18:38
I don't know about St. Louis, but Detroit is carpeted with churches. I think he's out of luck hoping for a place with more crime and less religion: more crime goes with more religion like white with rice.

It's only a matter of time before this broils into an argument and this thread is hijacked.

I think I may have kicked it off...
Kirchensittenbach
25-04-2008, 18:44
Nah, it's just saying people have too much money and are willing to use it on vanity plates.... and isn't that sinful?

buying a vanity plate isnt sinful, its just vain

the sin would be some corporate prick selling things like these religious theme plates to capitalize on the demand - [Greed, one of the 7 deadly sins]
Marid
25-04-2008, 19:05
Oh noes! Those Ebil Christians are getting license plates! It's a theocracy I tell you! Run! RUN!
Veblenia
25-04-2008, 19:05
Yes, they do have to pay extra for it.
It is promoting a religion, having a religious symbol on the license plate, which is issued by the state, implies that the state is endorsing said religion.

Yes, but the symbol is on the plate at the request of the driver. I don't think it implies a state endorsement as much as a driver endorsement.


So long as they included other religions, and an atheist option as other posters have suggested, I don't really have a problem with this. In fact I might even appreciate the knowledge that a crazed fundie just ran a stop sign.
Heinleinites
25-04-2008, 19:06
I don't see a problem with this, you don't even need to buy it. However, I feel that the state should produce a variety of these religiously themed license plates for various faiths, so there is a level playing field and people who want one for their religion can get one.

I think this is the best suggestion to head off all the foaming at the mouth this topic is likely to inspire, both here and in the real world. If they do this though, what would the licence plates for atheists look like? It could be just a blank white plate with the numbers on it and underneath the numbers it just says "PROVE IT" The agnostics could have the same thing, but replace the slogan with alittle cartoon guy shrugging his shoulders and a circle of question marks around his head.