NationStates Jolt Archive

The debate has recently become 'fashionable' so now everyone is preaching about the end of the world... again.

This time apparently the oceans will boil, the ice will melt and anywhere low will go bye bye. But is it real? Is the world truly getting hotter? Lets look at the facts.

First, the official stats indicate the worlds average temperature has not changed in 10 years. Also, they try to keep this hidden, but the antartic ice shelf has actually grown in the last few years. Finally, the average ammout of carbon in the air has also not changed in the last few years.

But then, what the hell is with this carbon footprint worry? What do you breath out? Did you know that the ammount of co2 cars put out is only a fraction to that of ant methane? Thats right, ants are the biggest contributors of co2 to the atmosphere. They even dwarf the co2 output of china.

Also, if you didn't already know (you should do), Plants THRIVE in a co2 rich enviroment. They love Carbon! And finally, CO2 is one of the smallest greenhouse gasses. The largest? Nitrogen. It makes up 70% of the air. And it IS a greenhouse gas. But then, if it wasn't for greenhouse gasses, Earth would be like mars. dead. They keep the Earth habitable.

But then there's the fashionable problem. Global warming has become a holy church. All who critisise are branded heretics and outcast. Any who produce proof are branded tools of the major corporations.

And the governments? They've all seen this as a chance to tax the people to death, while ensuring poorer countries cannot develop. Once again, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

This world is now so corrupt it makes me sick. But never mind the corruptions of governments. Do you believe in Global warming? Do you think it's a con? I'd like to hear your perspective.

Arr. This thread not be so popular.

Climate change is very real...

The periods resound throughout History, the Dark Ages, the Renaissance, the Little Ice Age, the Age of Reason...

All move to the ebb and flow of the Climate, with generally the Cold Periods leading to decline, and the Warm Periods corresponding to Abundance...

However, i do think that Corporate America and Government do Exaggerate the symptoms in the interests of Money and Power...;)

Indeed. I do believe global warming. But i also think it's natural.

Arr. This thread not be so popular.
You gave it five minutes...

To be honest, I have no idea if global warming is real or not. I'm not a scientist, and can't even begin to understand the concepts.

Having said that, I am very cynical about governments saying they want to impose 'green taxes'. Someone buying a £50,000 car isn't going to care about an extra £100 road tax; nor is a person buying a £1,000 holiday going to care about a £5 flying surplus. They're not a disincentive; what they are, however, is a quick way to make extra money when a large part of the population is starting to worry about the environment.

It's a politicians dream; voters who want to be taxed more. You can't blame them for taking us up on the offer.

Global warming is a hoax! In reality, the ICE AGE is coming!

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23583376-7583,00.html

THE scariest photo I have seen on the internet is www.spaceweather.com, where you will find a real-time image of the sun from the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory, located in deep space at the equilibrium point between solar and terrestrial gravity.

What is scary about the picture is that there is only one tiny sunspot.

Disconcerting as it may be to true believers in global warming, the average temperature on Earth has remained steady or slowly declined during the past decade, despite the continued increase in the atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide, and now the global temperature is falling precipitously.

All four agencies that track Earth's temperature (the Hadley Climate Research Unit in Britain, the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York, the Christy group at the University of Alabama, and Remote Sensing Systems Inc in California) report that it cooled by about 0.7C in 2007. This is the fastest temperature change in the instrumental record and it puts us back where we were in 1930. If the temperature does not soon recover, we will have to conclude that global warming is over.

so, how exactly do you account for all the recent freak storms that have occured across the globe?
snow in Afghanistan, flooding of New Orleans, vastly increased Flooding all over Britain, forest fires in California, Australia, the Tsunami affecting India. all the recent news i've seen points to the ice shelf retreating faster than ever.I've noticed far warmer weather in Scotland than before (and it used to be such a wet place), hardly any snow falls where there used to be deep snow in the Winter, now we're lucky to recieve any snow whatsoever.

From my own experience, from reports of the media, from leading scientists i conclude that global warming is real.

so, how exactly do you account for all the recent freak storms that have occured across the globe?
snow in Afghanistan, flooding of New Orleans, vastly increased Flooding all over Britain, forest fires in California, Australia, the Tsunami affecting Indonesia. all the recent news i've seen points to the ice shelf retreating faster than ever.I've noticed far warmer weather in Scotland than before (and it used to be such a wet place), hardly any snow falls where there used to be deep snow in the Winter, now we're lucky to recieve any snow whatsoever.

From my own experience, from reports of the media, from leading scientists i conclude that global warming is real.

Well the thing is, weve only been recording Meteorology for the past 100 years or so, and Hurricanes like Katrina(that did far worse to Biloxi than New Orleans could dream of) and the numerous Meteorological abnormalities have happened throughout history, usually towards the ends of the many Climate Periods of Cold and Warmth...

They are simply recorded in stories, myths and legends, because the Weather Channel wasnt out yet, lol...

From my own experience, from reports of the media, from leading scientists i conclude that global warming is real.
I think the name is a bit of a misnomer. Global warming doesn't mean it's going to heat up everywhere - Global Atmospheric & Hydrospheric Energy Increase would be a more accurate term though not nearly as catchy.

Perhaps Global Weather Chaos would describe the situation better as global warming = more energy = more chaotic weather patterns.

First, the official stats indicate the worlds average temperature has not changed in 10 years.

conveniently choosing a particularly high starting year, eh? do you think this is clever?

also, source?

Also, they try to keep this hidden, but the antartic ice shelf has actually grown in the last few years.

source?

Finally, the average ammout of carbon in the air has also not changed in the last few years.

source?

so, how exactly do you account for all the recent freak storms that have occured across the globe?
snow in Afghanistan, flooding of New Orleans, vastly increased Flooding all over Britain, forest fires in California, Australia, the Tsunami affecting Indonesia. all the recent news i've seen points to the ice shelf retreating faster than ever.I've noticed far warmer weather in Scotland than before (and it used to be such a wet place), hardly any snow falls where there used to be deep snow in the Winter, now we're lucky to recieve any snow whatsoever.

From my own experience, from reports of the media, from leading scientists i conclude that global warming is real.
^this

Where I live, (cleveland ohio) it would tyoic aly snow from early october to late march/early april. Now, we rarely see large accumulations before christmas, and the snow sticks around 'till about mid-april. somethings happening, I'm just not sure what.

conveniently choosing a particularly high starting year, eh? do you think this is clever?

also, source?



source?



source?

Sources are for Squares, like Pants!...

It's a plot by the Dutch to flood the earth while they hide behind their dams so they can take over the earth after everyone else drowns.

First, the official stats indicate the worlds average temperature has not changed in 10 years.

Source?

Also, they try to keep this hidden, but the antartic ice shelf has actually grown in the last few years.

Source?

Finally, the average ammout of carbon in the air has also not changed in the last few years.

Source?

But then, what the hell is with this carbon footprint worry? What do you breath out? Did you know that the ammount of co2 cars put out is only a fraction to that of ant methane? Thats right, ants are the biggest contributors of co2 to the atmosphere. They even dwarf the co2 output of china.

Source?


I see you are great at claiming things without any evidence to support them. I, however, am not arrogant enough to think I know more about the climate and the changes happening than the collection of the world's top scientists that make up the IPCC.

the antartic ice shelf has actually grown in the last few years.

While I have to ask for a source this doesn't imply anything about global warming.

There's a theory which basically goes something like this:
- More heat
- More evaporation
- More rain & snowfall (in average, where it will fall is another thing)
- Increase of continental iceshelfs in arctic and antarctic zones from increased precipitation

I think the name is a bit of a misnomer. Global warming doesn't mean it's going to heat up everywhere - Global Atmospheric & Hydrospheric Energy Increase would be a more accurate term though not nearly as catchy.

Perhaps Global Weather Chaos would describe the situation better as global warming = more energy = more chaotic weather patterns.

I don't care! I want my Godamn snow back! and if it means i have to sabotage every petrol vehicle that can move to reduce global warming SO BE IT!
I've missed so much snow recently it's just cruel, seriously folks this is the real issue here, i need to make a good snowman and i haven't had the opportunity, you know what this means? this means Mad Mad hatter for you!
(please don't point out the irony of me using a computer to tell you this)

I don't care! I want my Godamn snow back! and if it means i have to sabotage every petrol vehicle that can move to reduce global warming SO BE IT!
I've missed so much snow recently it's just cruel, seriously folks this is the real issue here, i need to make a good snowman and i haven't had the opportunity, you know what this means? this means Mad Mad hatter for you!
(please don't point out the irony of me using a computer to tell you this)

I won't - As I miss good solid snowcover in winters too...

My beautiful snow raining in Central Europe or China! Wail! :(

Well the thing is, weve only been recording Meteorology for the past 100 years or so, and Hurricanes like Katrina(that did far worse to Biloxi than New Orleans could dream of) and the numerous Meteorological abnormalities have happened throughout history, usually towards the ends of the many Climate Periods of Cold and Warmth...

They are simply recorded in stories, myths and legends, because the Weather Channel wasnt out yet, lol...

ah perhaps, but i don't like traffic anyway it's too noisy for my liking. :)

I won't - As I miss good solid snowcover in winters too...

My beautiful snow raining in Central Europe or China! Wail! :(

We almost Never Get Snow, maybe at the end of the Warming, when Hell Freezes Over, Biloxi shall get some Snow, lol...

STOP GLOBAL WARMING!!! Turn off the SUN. I think that would fix the problem.

STOP GLOBAL WARMING!!! Turn off the SUN. I think that would fix the problem.

Yeah, but thats the Cold Sun...the Real Problem is Lucifer's just way too Hot, we should bring Jupiter Back, lol...

STOP GLOBAL WARMING!!! Turn off the SUN. I think that would fix the problem.

we could do that, but it's a bitch to restart

Rolling squid;13635610']we could do that, but it's a bitch to restart

oh that's easy, i've got a flux capacitor lying around somewhere i'm sure it'l fire up first time.
I mean you never know until you try.

First, the official stats indicate the worlds average temperature has not changed in 10 years.

*cough* (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/Instrumental_Temperature_Record.png)

Also, they try to keep this hidden, but the antartic ice shelf has actually grown in the last few years.

No (http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-03/uoca-ais022806.php)

Finally, the average ammout of carbon in the air has also not changed in the last few years.

it burns! (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Mauna_Loa_Carbon_Dioxide.png)

Did you know that the ammount of co2 cars put out is only a fraction to that of ant methane? Thats right, ants are the biggest contributors of co2 to the atmosphere. They even dwarf the co2 output of china.

however ants have existed for Millions of years and no doubt severely affected climate when they first came about eventually hitting a balance

adding to something tilts balances is a key phrase you should learn

Also, if you didn't already know (you should do), Plants THRIVE in a co2 rich enviroment. They love Carbon!

plants absorb a small amount of carbon for photosynthesis yes, however saying that they thrive is much the same as saying you will survive in an oxygen rich environment (hush at the back you know what I mean)

And finally, CO2 is one of the smallest greenhouse gasses. The largest? Nitrogen. It makes up 70% of the air. And it IS a greenhouse gas. But then, if it wasn't for greenhouse gasses, Earth would be like mars. dead. They keep the Earth habitable.

balances again

But then there's the fashionable problem. Global warming has become a holy church. All who critisise are branded heretics and outcast.

well seeing as how they happen to be generally outcasts already thats all fine and dandy:)

And the governments? They've all seen this as a chance to tax the people to death, while ensuring poorer countries cannot develop. Once again, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

1) you pay a fraction of the costs for enviromental damage especially in shipping and if you look at air travel governments have been hesitant to place any real tax on it because the airlines already operate on minimal profit margins (and them going broke is bad for tax)

2) oh noez the poor countries can't pollute *fret fret fret*...but hang on isn't crazy things like human rights...omg the U.N has been keeping the poor man down for decades!

but seriously having a population on the lookout for smog is never how you get rich

This world is now so corrupt it makes me sick.

yeah its like a world superpower keeping its head in the sand or something...

However, i do think that Corporate America and Government do Exaggerate the symptoms in the interests of Money and Power...;)

especially considering the US govenrment has fought global warming tooth and nail :p

They are simply recorded in stories, myths and legends, because the Weather Channel wasnt out yet, lol...

a modern one would be the ancient myth that it used to snow in England (madness I know)

so, how exactly do you account for all the recent freak storms that have occured across the globe?
snow in Afghanistan, flooding of New Orleans, vastly increased Flooding all over Britain, forest fires in California, Australia, the Tsunami affecting Indonesia.


Think about the bolded statement for just a moment...

I can't relay any sources. I learned this from reading a paper on the subject in college. It was called the "Great Global warming swindle!". It was written by my lecturer, who was a climatologist and computer expert.

So sorry, no sources. But all i wanted to do was start a healthy debate. It seems I have suceeded. :D

global climate change is real, we just dont know how it will end up.

the tax thing is a hoax, taxes will not stop climate change.

especially considering the US govenrment has fought global warming tooth and nail :p



a modern one would be the ancient myth that it used to snow in England (madness I know)

Well, thats the Two Party system coming out in us...we are a country of Two Extremes

One puts their heads in the Ground and ignores Climate change in the name of Profits (republicans)

The other Exaggerates the Symptoms and demonizes those who dont support their claims in the name of Profits (democrats)

although, something to be said of what they have in common, lol....

Besides, it snowed in Harry Potter...that means it snowed in England...No Questions Asked, lol :p

That's called La Nina, and was the most extreme one in a fair while. Just as the most recent El Nino was also very extreme. In general, things seem to be swinging more to extremes. From anecdote here, but across this year the seasonal arrangement has been rather wierd, (first snow in bloody March, T-shirt weather up through November). Basically, if you think about it being a pendulum, we're busy shoving it and then wondering why all sorts of things are happening.

Edit: Climate Chaos is a good phrase. Keep putting energy into the system, and it's very hard to predict where it will go, apart from extremes.

the tax thing is a hoax, taxes will not stop climate change.

so you think people are naturally more likely to go against the cheaper alternative? or are you rather saying (more cleverly) that the govenrment is making up for the cost the pollution will make rather than dealing with the problem with an outright ban?

Think about the bolded statement for just a moment...

okay so i was slightly wrong, not that far off.
damn pedant

*cough* (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/Instrumental_Temperature_Record.png)

So how do you verify this as genuine?

No (http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-03/uoca-ais022806.php)

I don't trust 'climate experts'. They just want more funding. So they make stuff up.

it burns! (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Mauna_Loa_Carbon_Dioxide.png)

Again, there's no genuine labeling on this graph-who's it from?

however ants have existed for Millions of years and no doubt severely affected climate when they first came about eventually hitting a balance

adding to something tilts balances is a key phrase you should learn

There were never so many cows as there are today :D

plants absorb a small amount of carbon for photosynthesis yes, however saying that they thrive is much the same as saying you will survive in an oxygen rich environment

Plants don't use any other gas. I produce a lot though. :D

balances again

You may have me there. I'm willing to admit when i'm wrong. :D

well seeing as how they happen to be generally outcasts already thats all fine and dandy:)

Hmm... :D

1) you pay a fraction of the costs for enviromental damage especially in shipping and if you look at air travel governments have been hesitant to place any real tax on it because the airlines already operate on minimal profit margins (and them going broke is bad for tax)

2) oh noez the poor countries can't pollute *fret fret fret*...but hang on isn't crazy things like human rights...omg the U.N has been keeping the poor man down for decades!

but seriously having a population on the lookout for smog is never how you get rich

Still, they're charging more than they should.

yeah its like a world superpower keeping its head in the sand or something...
especially considering the US govenrment has fought global warming tooth and nail :p

Arrr! :D

a modern one would be the ancient myth that it used to snow in England (madness I know)

It snowed Earlier this year. I remember comming home from work covered in it. :D

But to finish, you seem to have many valid points. Let's golf some time. :D

so you think people are naturally more likely to go against the cheaper alternative? or are you rather saying (more cleverly) that the govenrment is making up for the cost the pollution will make rather than dealing with the problem with an outright ban?

im saying that they will take the money and do nothing to stop climate change. if small things could make a difference, it wouldnt be a crisis.

You can't just dismiss Global warming, i think it happening BUT i don't that enough time as pass to definitely say it happening. Temperatures do change over time, we could be going into an ice age for example. Hell in roman time we were a known as a wine making region.

Indeed. I do believe global warming. But i also think it's natural.

Which hasn't stopped us from combatting countless other things in the past.

So I don't see how this is a valid excuse for not doing anything, especially since those that use it are the ones that generally support the vast majority of 'unnatural' and 'man-made' processes.(such as heavy industry, automobiles that run on petrol, and such)

I am aware that the paragraph directly above this statement is a generalization.

so, how exactly do you account for all the recent freak storms that have occured across the globe?
snow in Afghanistan, flooding of New Orleans, vastly increased Flooding all over Britain, forest fires in California, Australia, the Tsunami affecting India. all the recent news i've seen points to the ice shelf retreating faster than ever.I've noticed far warmer weather in Scotland than before (and it used to be such a wet place), hardly any snow falls where there used to be deep snow in the Winter, now we're lucky to recieve any snow whatsoever.

From my own experience, from reports of the media, from leading scientists i conclude that global warming is real.

I'd just like to point out that Tsunamis are caused by earthquakes, caused by fault lines in the shifting earth crust. Kind of hard to pin that one on Global Warming. ;)

Global Warming is something of a misonmer, global climate change is a better term. As the issue is not just warming but also a higher variability in the weather.

Mostly I'm frustrated by the political fearmongering by those such as Al Gore and their complete fixation with CO2, instead of looking at other far more addressable issues. One of my favorite sites is the Copenhagen Consensus, where some better solutions are put forth for dealing with future climate problems rather than screaming our heads off about carbon emissions. Because of course us spending more and more money on new 'green' cars helps all the people without even access to education and clean drinking water.

political fearmongering by...Al Gore

wtf?

wtf?

You herd the man (Or woman...?)

I do believe in that the Global Climate is changing, but whether or not it's going to end in a doomsday scenario that Al Gore likes us to believe it will. I believe that the Climate Change is the natural fluxuation of the Global Climate.

Now as for the taxes that they are imposing on us because of the "Global Warming Scare", I think they are nothing more than a scam by Gov. Co. and need to be repealed.

I think the name is a bit of a misnomer. Global warming doesn't mean it's going to heat up everywhere - Global Atmospheric & Hydrospheric Energy Increase would be a more accurate term though not nearly as catchy.

Perhaps Global Weather Chaos would describe the situation better as global warming = more energy = more chaotic weather patterns.

just call it climate change...vague and catchy.

just call it climate change...vague and catchy.

Hence why they picked it. :D