NationStates Jolt Archive

It's a simple explanation. Everyone starts with an honest idea, they want to change the world. They want to be good. But then they get into power. They get stupid. They realise their ideas won't work. They start to desperately chase votes. Then we're left with a system where no one accomplishes anything and everyone spends their career chasing votes. So nothing happens, and the few ideas implemented are on things that don't need fixing, which actually end up making it worse. So the good things get worse, and the worse things get worse. A clear indication that democracy is pointless. So what else can we do? A dictatorship? Nope. They'd get corrupt and start trying to control everything.

Democracy doesn't work, Dictatorships don't work. Do you have any ideas regarding how we might help solve this? I open the floor to you.

Make me King.

Waaaaaaaaaaaah!
Waaaaaaaaaaaah!
Waaaaaaaaaaaah!

Make me King.

And how can you assure us you wouldn't become corrupt?

And how can you assure us you wouldn't become corrupt?

Take my word for it.


In all seriousness, democracies can be great when the demos knows what its talking about. When people are educated they will make better voting decisions. Also, politics need to be a lot less about money.

Therefore, start by only allowing the educated to vote. Then improve the education system. Eventually, everyone will be educated enugh to vote.

Waaaaaaaaaaaah!
Waaaaaaaaaaaah!
Waaaaaaaaaaaah!

That's nice... begone! Lest ye feel my Butter cannon!

And that's where anarchy comes in!

Take me word for it.

They seemed to do that with george bush... ZING!

Welcome to NSG.

Make me King.

“Any American who is prepared to run for president should automatically, by definition, be disqualified from ever doing so.” - Gore Vidal

aha finally the ideal government thread.
it's simple, allow voluntary education, this gets rid of the need for private education, this allows for a smarter country, so they vote in smarter ways.
with a smarter electorate, you are unstoppable.
give the workers positions in parliament, and this encourages the lower classes to vote and take an interest in politics. so the whole country benefits.

oh and by the way, if anyone had a good answer to this i think it would already have been thought of. but i'm sure NSG will prove me wrong.

I think thats why Government in General will not work...

Its like choosing the lesser of Several Evils...Democracy is just the least corruptible version....

Actually, i take that back, Democracy is the easiest way to ensure the Corrupted individuals get kicked out...its a little better...

It doesnt always work, but it affords you the best chance....

Welcome to NSG.

Thanks, but i'm a legend on NS. I've just been gone for a while. I was once in NS's top ten posters. I was once the Imperial Navy.

There's no such thing as a perfect system but, to paraphrase Churchill, democracy is the least worst one we've tried.

They seemed to do that with george bush... ZING!

Ah, but Im not some alcoholic man-child redneck who is friends with all the oil execs and defense contractors.

I was once the Imperial Navy.

British or Japanese? lol

Thanks, but i'm a legend on NS. I've just been gone for a while. I was once in NS's top ten posters. I was once the Imperial Navy.

The TIN, I remember you. Where the hell have you been? NSG needs you now more than ever.

Ah, but Im not some alcoholic man-child redneck who is friends with all the oil execs and defense contractors.

A valid point. Tell me, what are your safety features? Can you protect me from short-range missile attack?

The TIN, I remember you. Where the hell have you been? NSG needs you now more than ever.

I'm sorry, but i've been without an internet connection in 2 years. Even now i'm on my sisters PC. But hopefully i will be netbound by July.

British or Japanese? lol

Neither. It was an Empire of my own design.

Take my word for it.


In all seriousness, democracies can be great when the demos knows what its talking about. When people are educated they will make better voting decisions. Also, politics need to be a lot less about money.

Therefore, start by only allowing the educated to vote. Then improve the education system. Eventually, everyone will be educated enugh to vote.

This is a little iffy. Who decides where the line is drawn? Whenever a distinction is made between whose opinion matters and whose doesn't, it just seems like you're opening, though not to be Slippery Slope or anything, a can of worms.

Neither. It was an Empire of my own design.

Crazy, lol:rolleyes:

aha finally the ideal government thread.
it's simple, allow voluntary education, this gets rid of the need for private education, this allows for a smarter country, so they vote in smarter ways.
with a smarter electorate, you are unstoppable.
give the workers positions in parliament, and this encourages the lower classes to vote and take an interest in politics. so the whole country benefits.

oh and by the way, if anyone had a good answer to this i think it would already have been thought of. but i'm sure NSG will prove me wrong.

A smart democracy quickly figures out they can vote themselves more and more money. That leads inexorably to socialism, which leads to collapse. A stupid electorate with good laws however leads to a series of petty tyrants ruling for brief periods.

Crazy, lol:rolleyes:

Perhaps when i get my old nation back i shall show you some of my old stories. But that will take time.

Somehow the Legend of Tin just does not sound as good as The Imperial Navy.

A smart democracy quickly figures out they can vote themselves more and more money. That leads inexorably to socialism, which leads to collapse. A stupid electorate with good laws however leads to a series of petty tyrants ruling for brief periods.

and how does this link with my opinion?
I can't understand any of your post. sorry.

A smart democracy quickly figures out they can vote themselves more and more money. That leads inexorably to socialism, which leads to collapse. A stupid electorate with good laws however leads to a series of petty tyrants ruling for brief periods.

Indeed. A democracy can fall prey to the same corruptions as dictators.

Somehow the Legend of Tin just does not sound as good as The Imperial Navy.

All the best names were taken. Sorry.

A valid point. Tell me, what are your safety features? Can you protect me from short-range missile attack?

Yes, by not being an alcoholic man child redneck in the pocket of big business and defense contracors;)

This is a little iffy. Who decides where the line is drawn? Whenever a distinction is made between whose opinion matters and whose doesn't, it just seems like you're opening, though not to be Slippery Slope or anything, a can of worms.

I have yet to perfect how I would impliment my uptopian system, Ill get back to you when I figure it out.

It wouldnt however have anything to do with whose opinions matter however. Im not banning Christians (all though many of them would be convered by "uneducated":p) or the right wing from voting. I would just make sure that those voting actually knew the issues and were educated.

Anyone for Plato's The Republic?

Elect a Dictator.

Anyone for Plato's The Republic?

I draw a good deal of insperation from there.


As long as I was one of the Philosopher Kings, Id be ok with that system.

Let's see.

Democracy doesn't work because every silly bastard gets a vote.

Dictatorship doesn't work because I am rarely the dictator.

Anarchy doesn't work because nothing gets done.

Communism doesn't work because human nature is selfish and greedy.

Monarchy doesn't work because of all the inbreeding.

I guess our best hope is to get a strong, decisive, intelligent dictator to rule the world with an iron fist. Unfortunately, most dictators are uppity military types or crazy Hitler types. Vote me for Emperor of Earth.

I have yet to perfect how I would impliment my uptopian system, Ill get back to you when I figure it out.

Oh don't hurry on my account. :p

It wouldnt however have anything to do with whose opinions matter however. Im not banning Christians (all though many of them would be convered by "uneducated":p) or the right wing from voting. I would just make sure that those voting actually knew the issues and were educated.

No, I don't think that you personally would abuse it like that. My issue is that the idea itself has left itself ripe for abuse. For instance, someone has to determine whether a person knows enough about the issues to vote. Without the right kind of safeguards, that could easily turn into "they disagree with me, they clearly don't understand the issues" from the wrong kind of administrator.

I suggest a bit of Left-Wing Radical Communism

have a hint of the benefits of communist teamwork in a nation, but with more personal flexibility for people's lives as democracy does - just no rednecks or capitalist puppets in charge of the nation.

Either that or have a Religious Military command everything like the Imperial Guard do in Warhammer 40K

*ponders making Mad Hatters 'the Emperor', and making Space Marines based off His DNA*:p

I draw a good deal of insperation from there.


I draw most of my Inspiration from this Great Ork...

“Wuz betta den one choppa? Two choppas! Two choppas is one more… is one times da… is lots more fun! Waaagh!”
- Chopmo, Dung Heap Philosopher

Oh don't hurry on my account. :p



No, I don't think that you personally would abuse it like that. My issue is that the idea itself has left itself ripe for abuse. For instance, someone has to determine whether a person knows enough about the issues to vote. Without the right kind of safeguards, that could easily turn into "they disagree with me, they clearly don't understand the issues" from the wrong kind of administrator.

Which of course is the problem with my Utopian system as of now, it requires me to be the administrator of its implimentation. Im tempted to say it would require you to have a degree from some institution of higher learning, be it two years or four, but my fear then becomes I am forbiding the poor to vote as they usually arent educated in that manner. Im workin on it. It will be perfected by the time Im Pharoh of the world though, I promise.:p


The same arguement goes for why I have a problem with Monarchies. Monarchy is great if Im king.

I guess our best hope is to get a strong, decisive, intelligent dictator to rule the world with an iron fist. Unfortunately, most dictators are uppity military types or crazy Hitler types. Vote me for Emperor of Earth.

I can fill that position. I have no desire for power or wealth. I just want order. At any cost.

Either that or have a Religious Military command everything like the Imperial Guard do in Warhammer 40K


Awesome im not the only one who wants a Warhammer government...

However...you Umie Pink skins is Gettin da Beatin from GOrK and moRk!...WAAAGH!!!

Awesome im not the only one who wants a Warhammer government...

My Empire is loosely based on Star Wars, WH40k, and Skies of Arcadia.

Thanks, but i'm a legend on NS. I've just been gone for a while. I was once in NS's top ten posters. I was once the Imperial Navy.

I've heard of you! :eek:



You're the real TIN right? An oldtimer, right? The one who owes me money, right?

Oligarchies are the best espcially when you have a big group of dictators. Great fun!:eek:

Da gobbos is best, but da Orcs is betta! WAAAGH! Grimgor!

I, too, am a fan of Warhammer. 40K is ok but a bit overrated.

Both democracy and dictatorship does work, neither system is perfect but either system is capable of governing a nation. To say that something doesn't work at all because it is far from perfect is an exaggeration.

The flaws are not in the form of government, the flaws are in individuals who are stupid, corrupt or otherwise flawed. It is impossible to have a perfect society unless the inhabitants are perfect citizens so rather than looking for the flawless form of government you should look for flawless citizens, robots perhaps.

Both democracy and dictatorship does work, neither system is perfect but either system is capable of governing a nation. To say that something doesn't work at all because it is far from perfect is an exaggeration.

The flaws are not in the form of government, the flaws are in individuals who are stupid, corrupt or otherwise flawed. It is impossible to have a perfect society unless the inhabitants are perfect citizens so rather than looking for the flawless form of government you should look for flawless citizens, robots perhaps.

AH!...Ive been looking in the Wrong Source...

I too, Trust Skynet!

I've heard of you! :eek:



You're the real TIN right? An oldtimer, right? The one who owes me money, right?

I paid you! Don't try to milk any more! :p

Democracy doesn't work, Dictatorships don't work. Do you have any ideas regarding how we might help solve this? I open the floor to you.[/QUOTE]

Communism has got to be the best option for world government, if it wasn't for the corruption and secret dictatorship manner of the Communists party that is...

There's no such thing as a perfect system but, to paraphrase Churchill, democracy is the least worst one we've tried.
Aye, but there's nothing he didn't contradict himself on.

He said "an appeaser is one who feeds an alligator, hoping it will eat him last", but also said that "to jaw-jaw is better than to war-war", so there we go.



Anyway, it works alright, all things considered, it's just a bit of an ineffective way to run a government compared to a dictatorship, on the other hand this gives some degree of a safety valve, and I guess the fact that parties have to be re-voted in every 4ish years lets people get their opinions off their chest, although as we've seen in Italy, it can lead to some pretty débâcular times.

Rule by constitution. It has absolute power, and it can't be corrupted. Within the stringent framework on the other hand, you can have all the democracy and politics you want - it's just that the politicians will have so little actual power that they don't get anything out of choosing that career path.

Therefore, start by only allowing the educated to vote. Then improve the education system. Eventually, everyone will be educated enugh to vote.

I don't know about you, but if only the educated could vote and I was one of those educated, I'd make sure the education system didn't have a snowball's chance in hell.

Rule by constitution. It has absolute power, and it can't be corrupted. Within the stringent framework on the other hand, you can have all the democracy and politics you want - it's just that the politicians will have so little actual power that they don't get anything out of choosing that career path.
A constitution holds no power without a group of people willing to defend it in the corridors of power and is thus a weak form of the rule of law.

A constitution holds no power without a group of people willing to defend it in the corridors of power and is thus a weak form of the rule of law.

Create a magic constitution, or one that is enforced by legal robots.

Create a magic constitution, or one that is enforced by legal robots.

Ah, but these Robots use AOL and have been Rendered Useless as they move Slower than Glaciers...

We should instead let Warlord Gorgutz 'Ead-Unter take Control to keep the Peace...and WAAAGH!!! lol...

Democracy doesn't work, Dictatorships don't work. Do you have any ideas regarding how we might help solve this? I open the floor to you.

Communism has got to be the best option for world government, if it wasn't for the corruption and secret dictatorship manner of the Communists party that is...[/QUOTE]

Hey genius, Communism is an economic program, not a government system.

Communism has got to be the best option for world government, if it wasn't for the corruption and secret dictatorship manner of the Communists party that is...

Hey genius, Communism is an economic program, not a government system.[/QUOTE]

no, Socialism is an Economic Program, Communism is when you try to translate that into a Governmental System, and fail....

Create a magic constitution, or one that is enforced by legal robots.
Quite. As you've pointed out, you need magic or robots to protect it, neither of which is a particularly feasible way to defend free'um and democracy and all that jazz, esp. since I've yet to see a film involving robots where they don't go at least slightly crazy and indulge in cheekiness against their human masters.

A constitution holds no power without a group of people willing to defend it in the corridors of power and is thus a weak form of the rule of law.
What corridors of power? The constitution is the definition of those corridors, and if it has no provision in it to change it, the only way is to completely overthrow it.

That's no different from any system of government. I can't talk about what happens when there's a revolution, just as no advocate of democracy or dictatorship can.

Socialism is an Economic Program
At least it's a bit right.
Communism is when you try to translate that into a Governmental System, and fail....
No, Communism is an economic system which can exist in many forms of governments, from anarcho-communist societies to communist dictatorships.

No, Communism is an economic system which can exist in many forms of governments, from anarcho-communist societies to communist dictatorships.

Thats what i was saying, those people have attempted to incorporate Communism into their Governmental Patterns...

Communism is derived from the Socialist Economic System, when its used to construct a Government...

What corridors of power?
The Cabinet or Politburo, whichever you have, the inner clique of your governmental structure.
The constitution is the definition of those corridors, and if it has no provision in it to change it, the only way is to completely overthrow it.
The constitution is only nominally the definition of those corridors. If both sides of the political spectrum work together to simply ignore the constitution, then people will bitch and moan on the internet and radio, but nothing can really be done about it.

What if we put a giant Pineapple in charge?

I think its time we take Lewis Black's advice...

I think its time for a Dead President, its time to reelect Ronald Reagan, his time has Come again...lol...

The Cabinet or Politburo, whichever you have, the inner clique of your governmental structure.
The democratic part of government, ie the parliament and the leadership of whatever side is the biggest there, only has the power to approve certain government programs that are financed by voluntary taxation. Everyone pays a compulsory flat tax for defence, courts, police, anti-trust and market-support policies, infrastructure and so on. Everything beyond that (healthcare, welfare, etc) would be paid for by voluntary membership in the government program. Since the government would have no control over courts or police and would not be allowed offensive warfare, it is therefore extremely limited. They can scheme all they want, but unless they get the police and courts on their side they can't do anything. And if they do, it's a coup d´etat and my government doesn't exist anymore, to be replaced by something else.

The constitution is only nominally the definition of those corridors. If both sides of the political spectrum work together to simply ignore the constitution, then people will bitch and moan on the internet and radio, but nothing can really be done about it.
If they don't follow the constitution, then it's not my government. I could say the same thing about any idea anyone else comes up with. Because Mugabe or Chávez ignore or just rewrite the constitution, does that mean constitutional democracy as a system can't work?

Rule by constitution. It has absolute power, and it can't be corrupted.


I still don't understand. Surely the people who created the constitution, and decided to rule by it, possess the absolute power. What stops them from abandoning, changing, or corrupting it?


That's no different from any system of government. I can't talk about what happens when there's a revolution, just as no advocate of democracy or dictatorship can.


What incentive do I have to adopt something that provides no greater benefit than what already exists?


Since the government would have no control over courts or police


Who does have control over courts and police? At least ideally, public control of courts and police exists to ensure that decisions over the use of necessarily coercive force aren't simply a matter of being the highest bidder. Presumably we wouldn't want Highest Bidder being able to topple rule by constitution and its government.

I've got a few problems with the current form of democrazy, representative democracy. Firstly, it's transparancy: how do you know the people who want to represent you do what they say. Like the US, they can elect a president every 4 years. During the elections, the candidates say a lot of things, what they want to do for the people etc. Then they're elected, and run the country for 4 years. What if they don't do what they told during the elections? Something similair happend in Holland a couple of years ago. 1 Party was strongly for a chosen major, because of that they got a nice spot in the government, and what happend then: no chosen major. Then you really feel screwed, if you're one of there voters. After the government is elected, the people doesn't have that much to say, and for 4 years lots of things can happen wich the people doesn't want, now how's that democratic?

Quite. As you've pointed out, you need magic or robots to protect it, neither of which is a particularly feasible way to defend free'um and democracy and all that jazz, esp. since I've yet to see a film involving robots where they don't go at least slightly crazy and indulge in cheekiness against their human masters.

Good point.

Wait a minute! What if the robots had a constitution? Then they would be forced to not go postal.

well you could have voters that take a intrest in politics, that way if a polition turns out to be inept and starts trying to get votes by showing off and manipulating the idiots with pointless adverts, that tell you nothing about how they can improve the country("the phone is ringing-who will answer the phone?").

with a electorate that are interested in politics and know about who is up for election,what they would do and what needs to be done- they can choose a candidate who will provide for the entire country.

another idea would be to remove som of the class stutcure that means only the rich can get elected- they often have no idea what the average person needs.

if we improve education, wealfare and reduce voter apathy then we can get leaders who know what needs to be done, remove the glamor and popularity contests so potiential leaders focuss on what the can do for the country not just making them selfs look cool.

have you ever seen priministers question time?- it's like jerry spingers only with less restraint.

The reason why democracy doesn't work as well as it should is because of capitalism.

*runs and hides*

*reminds everyone that Amor wears tie-dye...*

I still don't understand. Surely the people who created the constitution, and decided to rule by it, possess the absolute power. What stops them from abandoning, changing, or corrupting it?
The thing is that what is in my constitution is basically given by my view of human rights I explained in the other thread. It's not their preferences, it's objectively correct, given that it is a constitution written for human life in the real world. If they changed it or wrote anything other than its proper content in there, it would be rule by humans rather than rule of law.

What incentive do I have to adopt something that provides no greater benefit than what already exists?
For you and me, it would provide greater benefits. To the politicians...well, that's the question, isn't it - how do you get the existing people in charge to do the right thing against their interest.

Who does have control over courts and police? At least ideally, public control of courts and police exists to ensure that decisions over the use of necessarily coercive force aren't simply a matter of being the highest bidder.
They control each other, while acting in accordance with the constitution. I mean, who controls courts and police now? We don't get to vote on judges or judgements, or whether or not the police arrests someone. And in a properly working state, neither do the politicians.

Presumably we wouldn't want Highest Bidder being able to topple rule by constitution and its government.
I don't think people's wealth should make any difference. The way courts work right now is closest to what I'd like an entire state to be - an attempt to make objectively correct decisions, given certain decision rules by which the court is constrained. The constitution simply provides the rules one level above simple legislation or case law.

Make me King.

And me Queen. Yes. That works.

No Democracy? No Dictatorship? A Patriarchal Utopian Religious Hierarchy ought to work.

It's not their preferences, it's objectively correct, given that it is a constitution written for human life in the real world.


How do you know what is objectively correct for human life in the "real world" (talk about loaded language...) without inserting your own preferences, viewpoint, or bias?


For you and me, it would provide greater benefits. To the politicians...well, that's the question, isn't it - how do you get the existing people in charge to do the right thing against their interest.


I was referring specifically to the stability of the regime. If, indeed, the only thing enforcing the rule of the constitution is the potential for revolution, such a regime is no more likely to last or succeed than any other. Since revolution is an innately political activity, it would appear that rule by constitution secures a very important job for politicians of all kinds.


They control each other, while acting in accordance with the constitution.


As required, verified, and enforced by whom?


We don't get to vote on judges


I can. I don't, but I can.


...or judgements or whether or not the police arrests someone.


Never served on a jury?


I don't think people's wealth should make any difference.


It shouldn't. But it does.


The way courts work right now is closest to what I'd like an entire state to be - an attempt to make objectively correct decisions, given certain decision rules by which the court is constrained. The constitution simply provides the rules one level above simple legislation or case law.


But a society doesn't concern itself with only objective fact. It also concerns itself with subjective taste or desires. This subjectivity will necessarily influence all decisions people make while trying to get along with each other. At any rate, political elites absolutely love to cite objective truth as a reason for why everyone else should accept said elite's subjective tastes or preferences. You're setting yourself up for a nasty surprise.

Therefore, start by only allowing the educated to vote. Then improve the education system. Eventually, everyone will be educated enugh to vote.

Except those in power will cripple the education system to the point where people are stupid enough not to see the difference and turn them into propaganda camps.

My Empire is loosely based on Star Wars, WH40k, and Skies of Arcadia.

Which one? Valuan "we burn your capital to the ground", Galcian "We nuke you from orbit", or Nasr "I don't care until you burn my capital to the ground"?

What corridors of power? The constitution is the definition of those corridors, and if it has no provision in it to change it, the only way is to completely overthrow it.


Or make unconstitutional laws, which your crony judiciary supports. As have been witnessed these last 8 years.

“Any American who is prepared to run for president should automatically, by definition, be disqualified from ever doing so.” - Gore Vidal

"Gore Vidal doesn't know what he's talking about" - Oscar Wilde

I have this urge to sing The Internationale, except I lost my voice :(

All this time I thought Democracy didn't work because people are inherently flawed.

Now I realize that it works just fine for us and our limited standards.

If it wasn';t for corruption, nearlky any type of government would work fine.

Therefore, best would be the goverrnment that minimizes corruption... which (so far) is democracy. No, it's not ideal, but neither are the choices. Even if you spent a billion dollars on a supercomputer to analyze the world and produce the best possible results, what'll you do when it crashes and/or gets hacked?

And how can you assure us you wouldn't become corrupt?

Become?!?
:D

Make me King.And me Queen. Yes. That works.

*waits for KoL to be made King*
*assassinates KoL*
*usurps throne*

*waits for KoL to be made King*
*assassinates KoL*
*usurps throne*

Begins revolution to overthrow the monarchy. succeeds and doesn't know what to do afterward, so gets very drunk and forgets about the coup.

*waits for KoL to be made King*
*assassinates KoL*
*usurps throne*

Hear hear!! Long live Queen Nanatsu and King Dyakovo!!

Therefore, best would be the goverrnment that minimizes corruption... which (so far) is democracy.

you have NO clue

the power to make uber loads of money and sneak some into whatever states senator's pocket, hmmm, DEMOCRACY

the power to 'lose' election votes and let a political puppet into office
Democracy

Declaring war on any other nation that does not support your politics
Democracy

when you look at the facts, democracy is the greatest evil for not only has it infected nearly every other nation on earth, to a level similar of world domination, but it allows the highest levels of Crime of all degrees, and openly permits any change for good or bad as long as enough people show support for it -
* anyone can have a gun,
* anyone can love and marry anyone or anything they want,
* light drugs are accepted at certain levels with the options that harder drugs
will eventually be included if they get enough public support
* many employers are allowed to fire you for little or no reason
* pay rises are useless because the tax department will simply review what
you pay them to keep you poor
* law enforcement is weak as hell, and any attempt to give it strength is
labelled as 'facist'
* Racial minorities are somehow never racist against whites, and whites somehow always are to others

and lets not forget the democratic propaganda machine that would make what communist josef stalin and nazi joseph goebbels had, look like kids cartoons in comparison

A clear indication that democracy is pointless.
Naw, more a clear indication that unaccountable representative democracy is flawed.

Begins revolution to overthrow the monarchy. succeeds and doesn't know what to do afterward, so gets very drunk and forgets about the coup.
LOL
Hear hear!! Long live Queen Nanatsu and King Dyakovo!!
Don't forget Prince MHiJ

Youre fun.

you have NO clue

Oh, the irony.

the power to make uber loads of money and sneak some into whatever states senator's pocket, hmmm, DEMOCRACY

You overestimate corruption in most democracies.

the power to 'lose' election votes and let a political puppet into office
Democracy

Puppets havent been elected in the US.

Declaring war on any other nation that does not support your politics
Democracy

Every government wages wars against its political enemies, regardless of politcal system.

when you look at the facts,

What facts?

democracy is the greatest evil for not only has it infected nearly every other nation on earth, to a level similar of world domination, but it allows the highest levels of Crime of all degrees,

Prove it.

and openly permits any change for good or bad as long as enough people show support for it -

Thats the priniple of democracy.

* anyone can have a gun,

Actually, this isnt the case in most democracies.

* anyone can love and marry anyone or anything they want,

Why is this a problem? Oh right, you find queers icky.

* light drugs are accepted at certain levels with the options that harder drugs will eventually be included if they get enough public support

Debatabe.

* many employers are allowed to fire you for little or no reason

Nope. Not even close. You can sue a former employer for wrongful firing, and we have Unions to prevent such things.

* pay rises are useless because the tax department will simply review what
you pay them to keep you poor

Nope. Raising taxes is death in politics. Taxes arent raised for shits and giggles very often.

* law enforcement is weak as hell,

Not even close.

and any attempt to give it strength is
labelled as 'facist'

To the level you want, yes that would be facism.

* Racial minorities are somehow never racist against whites,

Not true at all. Everyone knows Lewis Farrakhan is a bigot.

and whites somehow always are to others

Only the racist ones, ie you.

and lets not forget the democratic propaganda machine that would make what communist josef stalin and nazi joseph goebbels had, look like kids cartoons in comparison

I dont see to much state produced propaganda telling me to kill Jews and turn in my neighbor for dissent.



I love showing how little of a grasp on reality you have.

LOL

Don't forget Prince MHiJ

Oh, right. We never forget Prince MHiJ.

Hear hear! Long live the Queen, the King, and the Mad Hatter!!!

LOL

Don't forget Prince MHiJ
heh, yeah i need more practise with those revolutions still i'll hang onto the next one.
You know how i know there's going to be another revolution? because they go around and around and around, hence revolution.
Oh, right. We never forget Prince MHiJ.

Hear hear! Long live the Queen, the King, and the Mad Hatter!!!

oh, i don't fancy being a prince, can't i be in charge of defensive and offensive strategic operations instead?
DOSO, hey i'm the DOSO, that's got a ring to it.:D
oh and while on Topic i'd just like to say, half of you are debating different types of democratic system, you first need a definition before you debate it, otherwise the topic will veer into every direction, like a lorry with a drunk driver.

heh, yeah i need more practise with those revolutions still i'll hang onto the next one.
You know how i know there's going to be another revolution? because they go around and around and around, hence revolution.
:p
oh, i don't fancy being a prince, can't i be in charge of defensive and offensive strategic operations instead?
DOSO, hey i'm the DOSO, that's got a ring to it.:D
How about Prince MHiJ, DOSO?
oh and while on Topic i'd just like to say, half of you are debating different types of democratic system, you first need a definition before you debate it, otherwise the topic will veer into every direction, like a lorry with a drunk driver.
And the problem would be what?

:p

How about Prince MHiJ, DOSO?

And the problem would be what?

I live for humour.
Prince DOSO, nah that sounds silly, what about DOSO chief of Vicissitude.

The problem is, i mean take if you debate what Fascist governments are like, one person could be debating with the Nazi government in mind, while the other person could be debating with Mussolini's Fascist government in mind, while another might argue with Franco of Spain's dictatorship.
Democracy has just as many if not more shades of what it is, from French to German, Brittish, American, Canadian.
do you see what i mean?

how about a computer as a government?(not microsoft)
i mean, the only thing we need then to halt corruption is a very very very good virus scanner ;)
and it could be democratic: we can vote at home on the computer on witch laws should pass or not.
however... do we really want to live in a "robocracy"?

how about a computer as a government?(not microsoft)
i mean, the only thing we need then to halt corruption is a very very very good virus scanner ;)
and it could be democratic: we can vote at home on the computer on witch laws should pass or not.
however... do we really want to live in a "robocracy"?

What are you talking about?
This is a computer government programme, designed to distract you while NationStates takes control of the world.

I live for humour.
Prince DOSO, nah that sounds silly, what about DOSO chief of Vicissitude.
Definitely workable...
The problem is, i mean take if you debate what Fascist governments are like, one person could be debating with the Nazi government in mind, while the other person could be debating with Mussolini's Fascist government in mind, while another might argue with Franco of Spain's dictatorship.
Democracy has just as many if not more shades of what it is, from French to German, Brittish, American, Canadian.
do you see what i mean?
Gah, the wrong part got bolded, this is the part I was responding to \/
otherwise the topic will veer into every direction, like a lorry with a drunk driver.

Definitely workable...

Gah, the wrong part got bolded, this is the part I was responding to \/

The problem with a lorry with a drunk driver is:
1 he will have slowed reaction times
2 he will forget where he's meant to be going
3 he will repeat himself when talking
4 he will be sick out of the window onto other drivers
5 he will be drinking all your alcohol
6 when he runs over people it leaves a nasty dent in the metalwork
7 he will insult various members of your family in exchange for a wholly hat
8 he will then throw out the wholly hat and insult you on why you gave him a hat at all
9 he'l start driving in circles because he thinks it's funny
10 he will start singing the rick roll song, you will most probably be scared

The problem with a lorry with a drunk driver is:
1 he will have slowed reaction times
2 he will forget where he's meant to be going
3 he will repeat himself when talking
4 he will be sick out of the window onto other drivers
5 he will be drinking all your alcohol
6 when he runs over people it leaves a nasty dent in the metalwork
7 he will insult various members of your family in exchange for a wholly hat
8 he will then throw out the wholly hat and insult you on why you gave him a hat at all
9 he'l start driving in circles because he thinks it's funny
10 he will start singing the rick roll song, you will most probably be scared

I still don't see the problem with this thread acting like that, it's not like the thread can literally do 4 or 5...

I still don't see the problem with this thread acting like that, it's not like the thread can literally do 4 or 5...

oh give it a chance i'm sure it'l find a way there.
and i reckon this thread could go anywhere, even inside your head. imagine your head being programmed by NSG threads?
oh even the thought of it pales my bones.

oh give it a chance i'm sure it'l find a way there.
and i reckon this thread could go anywhere, even inside your head. imagine your head being programmed by NSG threads?
oh even the thought of it pales my bones.

*starts a witty come-back*
*is lobotomized by NSG*
***

*starts a witty come-back*
*is lobotomized by NSG*
***

:p
But i later give you your brain back.
and now you're.... (http://icanhascheezburger.com/2007/02/13/you-woke-bearcat-from-hibernation/)

:p
But i later give you your brain back.
and now you're.... (http://icanhascheezburger.com/2007/02/13/you-woke-bearcat-from-hibernation/)

*tires of being bear-cat*
*waits for Nanatsu to turn me back to 'natural' form*
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff315/Sarothai/Dyakovochu.jpg

*tires of being bear-cat*
*waits for Nanatsu to turn me back to 'natural' form*
http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff315/Sarothai/Dyakovochu.jpg

Dyakovochu evolves into Raidyachu!!!
http://www.dur.ac.uk/alexander.marshall/pikachu.jpg

Dyakovochu evolves into Raidyachu!!!
http://www.dur.ac.uk/alexander.marshall/pikachu.jpg

now that's just scary.
I think it would be better if Dyakovo played a little music (http://icanhascheezburger.com/2007/02/22/astro-cat-will-play-for-you/) for us.

now that's just scary.
I think it would be better if Dyakovo played a little music (http://icanhascheezburger.com/2007/02/22/astro-cat-will-play-for-you/) for us.

Is this (http://thenproject.com/photos/rl_pikachu.jpg) better?

Is this (http://thenproject.com/photos/rl_pikachu.jpg) better?

hmm i don't like the eyes it needs more (http://icanhascheezburger.com/2007/02/23/moar/), Dyakovoness.

hmm i don't like the eyes it needs more (http://icanhascheezburger.com/2007/02/23/moar/), Dyakovoness.

*explodes but makes it!*
Moar Dyakovoness. Behold!!
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/pikachu/pikachu_070619a-l.jpg

Taking all the money out of campaigning would probably be a good place to start. I think that a lot of people would do something about their country's political situation if they thought that they had a choice to. Currently you have to either sell your soul, be part of a political organization, or be independently wealthy to run for any office of consequence. If normal people with good ideas were allowed to run without having to worry about their personal responsibilities, it would produce better candidates.

Also, more information and better education about the process and responsibilities of elected officials would help too. By clearing up exactly what certain people do, more people (aka a better pool of candidates) would be interested in running.

*explodes but makes it!*
Moar Dyakovoness. Behold!!
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/images/pikachu/pikachu_070619a-l.jpg

That looks cool, but i'm afraid... (http://icanhascheezburger.com/2007/02/28/im-sorry-dave/)

That looks cool, but i'm afraid... (http://icanhascheezburger.com/2007/02/28/im-sorry-dave/)

As well you should be...

That looks cool, but i'm afraid... (http://icanhascheezburger.com/2007/02/28/im-sorry-dave/)

Heh, what did you expect. I trained the Dyakovochu. Of course he spreads fear when fireballs come out of his butt. He´s mighty!!:eek:

1: Divide the country into a heap of allied, self-governing Athenian Style Democratic City States that pay taxes to a central government.

2: Use Democratic Socialism, & keep the politicians from being corrupted by money & issue state-standardized tests to make sure they arent Total Retards.

3: A bit like #1, but with no true central government. Divide the nation into a bunch of Anarcho-Syndicalist Communes that fend for themselves but still retain something of a National Identity, so, in the event of war, they fight for a common cause.

I have no idea wtf you're all talkin about at ze end... im just replying to the first post

I have no idea wtf you're all talkin about at ze end... im just replying to the first post

We were just talking about the secret weapon to make Democracy work once and for all. Teh Dyakovochu. *nod*

I meant to post on this yesterday but didn't get a chance. Anyway... Democracy.... Fail.

1.Democracy is short-sighted. Government never looks beyond the next electoral cycle and winning the next election. The long term future of the nation is unimportant.

2.Democracy has split loyalties. The party and winning the vote for the party (or oneself) takes precedence over national issues.

3.Democracy encourages corruption and a “grab the loot and run” mentality. Since officials are only in power for short spaces of time and require outside support to get re-elected, a culture of corruption is all but inevitable.

4.Democracy encourages see-saw government, alternating between opposing decisions, meaning projects and policies rarely get seen through to completion, or are cancelled before the full benefits have been realised.

5.Democracy leads to cultural and social degradation as politicians will “race to the bottom” in appealing to the lowest common denominator.

6.Democracy has a destabilising influence. Since governments are constantly changing, the potential for a failure in the transfer of power is increased.

7.Democracy works on the principle of asking hoi polloi what to do with the country. A quick look at said hoi polloi revels this to be a bad idea.

8.Democracy is inherently inefficient. As soon as ministers begin to gain experience in their posts they are replaced. This means either relying on inefficient ministers or relying on the civil service to take on more of the work and recommend policy decisions, who are unelected anyway.

Democracy. Fuck yeah... Or, actually, no.

I understand that over the years the two terms have basically come to mean the same thing, but you guys really mean a representative, or republican form of government. Democracy really isn't what the US or England, or any country that I know of, has right now.

1: Divide the country into a heap of allied, self-governing Athenian Style Democratic City States that pay taxes to a central government.

2: Use Democratic Socialism, & keep the politicians from being corrupted by money & issue state-standardized tests to make sure they arent Total Retards.

3: A bit like #1, but with no true central government. Divide the nation into a bunch of Anarcho-Syndicalist Communes that fend for themselves but still retain something of a National Identity, so, in the event of war, they fight for a common cause.

I have no idea wtf you're all talkin about at ze end... im just replying to the first post