NationStates Jolt Archive

Japan to allow peaceful pro-Tibet protests during torch relay

TOKYO - Japan said Tuesday that pro-Tibet activists were free to protest when the Olympic torch arrives this weekend, signalling a change from recent legs where demonstrators have been warded off.

Demonstrators plan a ceremony at a famed Buddhist temple, which backed out of plans to be the starting point for Saturday's relay, to mourn victims of China's recent crackdown in Tibet.

"Protesting doesn't pose any particular problem," Japanese Foreign Minister Masahiko Komura told reporters.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/342911/1/.html

I'll believe it when I see it, but I'm hestantly happy. :)

Why is this particularly surprising?

"Historically mortal enemies piss each other off shocker!"

I'm with China on this. The Dalai Lama just wants his slaves. What's worse is that so few can see that.

I'm with China on this. The Dalai Lama just wants his slaves. What's worse is that so few can see that.
Actually, he doesn't. He doesn't even want independence, he gave that up many years ago. The official Tibetan position is a reasonable one, namely some regional autonomy like that already given to some other parts of China and quite possible under the constitution. The reason is that Tibetan language and tradition are actively being wiped out by Beijing's policies, which is neither necessary nor particularly justifiable from pretty much any point of view I can think of.

These protesters on the other hand are a mix of western hippies for whom "Free Tibet" is a way to rebel against their parents and young Tibetan exiles, who are about as reasonable and justified in this as young Balkans exiles who beat each other up on football fields.

Some of Beijing's Tibet policies are wrong, and the Dalai Lama is right in pointing that out and wanting to resolve it. These protests on the other hand are entirely unreasonable and really shouldn't be supported by anyone who takes the time to think about the issue.

That being said, as long as actual security can be guaranteed (and maybe Japanese protesters are more behaved than British and French ones), I don't see why governments have gone to such radical lengths to make sure none of the dissent finds its way into the evening news shots.

Japan at least sympathizes with Human Rights...

Unfortunately however...these protest account for nothing...:(

Japan and China don't like each other. This is why.

I'm with China on this. The Dalai Lama just wants his slaves. What's worse is that so few can see that.

what makes you think that he wants any such thing?

Japan and China don't like each other. This is why.

Japan and China Dont like EACH OTHER!? :eek:

Cant imagine why, its just crazy :rolleyes:

Allowing peaceful protest!!! THOSE MONSTERS!

I'm not surprised at all.

What better way to gather the protesters in relatively few areas and kill them all in one fell swoop?

I'm with China on this. The Dalai Lama just wants his slaves. What's worse is that so few can see that.
With a sig like yours, you shall (and I certainly hope you will) be ashamed for years and years to come for this post.
Claim ignorance, that's the best defence you'll be able to muster.

Why is this particularly surprising?
Japan has a history of NOT liking protests and any event that might show it in a bad light on the international stage. It's currently doing its best to keep people out for the G8 meeting in Hokkaido in July so it's a bit surprising that it will welcome a protest like this.

Of course, that said, Nagano has been... hmm... not happy with the current situation. Zenkoji backed out of being the starting point for the run and the Prefectural Branch of the NPA told the paramilitary security guards that China wants to send to go take a long swim in Lake Suwa. This might be nothing more than the Japanese Government and Nagano letting China know that China still does not get to dictate what either of them do inside of Japan.

Japan has a history of NOT liking protests and any event that might show it in a bad light on the international stage. It's currently doing its best to keep people out for the G8 meeting in Hokkaido in July so it's a bit surprising that it will welcome a protest like this.

Exactly so.

Of course, that said, Nagano has been... hmm... not happy with the current situation. Zenkoji backed out of being the starting point for the run and the Prefectural Branch of the NPA told the paramilitary security guards that China wants to send to go take a long swim in Lake Suwa. This might be nothing more than the Japanese Government and Nagano letting China know that China still does not get to dictate what either of them do inside of Japan.

I was particularly happy with Zenkoji's actions.

Japan has a history of NOT liking protests and any event that might show it in a bad light on the international stage. It's currently doing its best to keep people out for the G8 meeting in Hokkaido in July so it's a bit surprising that it will welcome a protest like this.


Don't they also have a history of not liking the Chinese?

Don't they also have a history of not liking the Chinese?

Well, I think Japan invading China and everything that followed (the Rape of Nan King, etc) would be a pretty good foundation for dislike... Though I know the invasion was as much about Japan trying to form an economic/military superpower as anything. What was it called, the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere? I'm dragging this up out of the back of my mind, after writing a ten-page paper and an accompanying PowerPoint presentation in less than 24 hours. If it's fucked up, that's why.

Don't they also have a history of not liking the Chinese?
Sometimes yes, sometimes it has been in love with all things Chinese. The history between these two countries goes back well beyond a 1,000 years after all.

I was particularly happy with Zenkoji's actions.
So was I. Sadly though it seems that some people were not as Zenkoji awoke to graffiti painted onto its doors not too long ago.

Sweet... Japan is at the same time scary, awesome, and crazy. I love it.

I'm with China on this. The Dalai Lama just wants his slaves. What's worse is that so few can see that.

Even if that were true---and it's so far from truth that I don't know whether to laugh or cry---why would you support China anyway? Is it better for people to be their slaves?

Why is the choice always between the PRC's oppression and feudalism? Can't they count past two in China?

*snip*

I will acknowledge the solid sense of your post, since it will be wasted upon those at which it is directed.

When China took over Tibet they introduced running water, electricity, secular education, and something besides bark for food. Before China took over the Dalai Lama was king and pope and he made sure everyone knew it because of the way he lived in contrast to his toiling subjects.

So China has a reputation for stomping on free speech. Tibet has never known freedom of expression or faith, heretics were not tolerated. And yes, China has introduced socialism, a supremely fucked up socio-economic system which robs from the productive and gives to the government. It is the lesser of the two evils and a third option is not realistic at this point. I'm not always pleased with the company I keep but I try to do the best with what I have when faced with a dilema.

If it helps, know that the lesser of two evils is still evil and the enemy of my enemy is not my friend. That doesn't mean that we'll never find ourselves on the same side.

Even if that were true---and it's so far from truth that I don't know whether to laugh or cry---why would you support China anyway? Is it better for people to be their slaves?

Why is the choice always between the PRC's oppression and feudalism? Can't they count past two in China?

That's why they're oppressing Tibet, because the Dalai Lama knows the secret of higher arithmetic and he won't talk.

It is the lesser of the two evils and a third option is not realistic at this point.
That's because Beijing won't consider it. The Dalai Lama wants a situation similar to the one in Hong Kong, which might well work in reality if it was introduced.

That's because Beijing won't consider it. The Dalai Lama wants a situation similar to the one in Hong Kong, which might well work in reality if it was introduced.
Submit it in writing and see what happens.

Submit it in writing and see what happens.

He HAS submitted it in writing. My god, do you do any research at all before spewing your bigotry all over? The 17 point agreement (http://www.freetibet.org/info/file/file2.html) was signed by China AND Tibet in 1951, and thereafter the Chinese ran roughshod over it. The Dalai Lama submitted the Five Point Peace Plan (http://www.tibet.com/Proposal/5point.html) in 1982, which China refused to even consider. So I guess we saw what happened.

A lot can change in 25 years but I'll still side with China on this issue.

He HAS submitted it in writing. My god, do you do any research at all before spewing your bigotry all over? The 17 point agreement (http://www.freetibet.org/info/file/file2.html) was signed by China AND Tibet in 1951, and thereafter the Chinese ran roughshod over it. The Dalai Lama submitted the Five Point Peace Plan (http://www.tibet.com/Proposal/5point.html) in 1982, which China refused to even consider. So I guess we saw what happened.

I think that might have been the point.

A lot can change in 25 years but I'll still side with China on this issue.

Good plan. You wouldn't want to tax yourself by considering new information and taking a critical look at your position to see how this new information incorporates into it. If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts, eh?

I think that might have been the point.

I think that's giving him too much credit.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/342911/1/.html

I'll believe it when I see it, but I'm hestantly happy. :)

well, allowing a protest is one thing. Allowing protesters to put out the torch is completely different (which is what other countries were trying to prevent.)

A lot can change in 25 years but I'll still side with China on this issue.
This coming from someone who consistently and repeatedly defends China's actions on the basis that Tibet was a feudal surfdom 60 years ago which means it obviously still be one today if China hadn't invaded.

Oh the irony how it burns.

causing trouble with the Olympics causes the average Chinese to become angry at the Tibetans, which results in bad things happening to the Tibetans.

Tibet has been closed to tourists since the uprising there, and one winces to think what is going on.

Inasmuch as China's Olympics are disrupted by foreigners on account of the Tibetans, the Tibetans will be blamed and suffer ever more harsh suppression as a direct result.

The last month has seen an enormous rise in Chinese nationalism among young people as a direct response to western criticism of Tibet, &c.

A lot of people don't understand the fact that foreigners causing trouble with the Olympics causes the vast majority of Chinese to support the government even more strongly.

It is a tragically stupid plan which will predictably backfire and work against the desired aims of the protesters and boycotters.

This coming from someone who consistently and repeatedly defends China's actions on the basis that Tibet was a feudal surfdom 60 years ago which means it obviously still be one today if China hadn't invaded.
Probably. Pope-Kings don't like to give up their power because in their little country they aren't just dictator-in-chief, their the next best thing to God. If the Chinese hadn't taken over there might have been a few improvements due to internal and international pressure but it wouldn't be where it is today.

You can't grab power from something as big and powerful as China or the US or even Russia. You have to bide your time and accumulate it from the shadows. Incremental diplomacy will do much more than tyring to disrupt the Olympic games.