NationStates Jolt Archive

So, FX has been showing this movie again, and I'd have to say this is one of my top 10 films of all time to watch. I think it shows how someone can be a racist (whether it's white or black) and how even though we may not teach it to our kids directly, they can still pick up on it by how we act and how we talk about other people. It's a very powerful and intense film. I also like the ending when Derek's brother got shot by a black person. The reason I like that part is that Derek went through a transformation from a Neo-Nazi racist to a guy who tolerates black in the movie. Now that his brother been shot by a black person, does his transformation stick or does he go back the way he use to be?

Thoughts?

Spoiler tags?

Spoiler tags?

Yea...that would've been nice wouldn't it? I'll put it in.

Yea...that would’ve been nice wouldn’t it? I’ll put it in.
Cool, and just because you’re right; it is a damn good film.

It'd be a shame to spoil it for others.

It's a brilliant film. One of the best treatments of racism in the US I've ever seen. I can't recommend it enough. Thanks for bringing attention to it. :)

Excellent film. Hard to watch in places, but necessarily so (such as the murder scene near the opening when he has the black kid bite the curb...*shudder*). And is there anyone better on Earth at playing white trash chicks than Fairuza Balk?

What were the first nine films in the series like?

To answer the original question, I would like to think that he keeps up with the non-being a neo-nazi.

Earlier in the film, some black guys try to steal his car, then he suffers some bad stuff in the jail and he had been brain washed for many years with white supremacy crap. So I don't see that he would change his mind after wee bro is shot dead.

Think he's developed an understanding that circumstances drives people to do unsavoury things regardless of colour. He did bad things to non-whites too.

Wishfull thinking, i'm just convinced that his character has a truly life and believe changing effect!

American History X is another disappointing film designed to show how having your own opinion about races/life that differs from modern society is a bad, fruitless thing.

IT an och eye good film, and i so want to make someone bite the kerb (gosh darn)

American History X is another disappointing film designed to show how having your own opinion about races/life that differs from modern society is a bad, fruitless thing.Why is it disappointing? Do you want people to have the freedom to spread racism and other forms of institutionalizable hate?

The annoying thing about the movie was having Ben Sisko in it... :)

Why is it disappointing? Do you want people to have the freedom to spread racism and other forms of institutionalizable hate?

The annoying thing about the movie was having Ben Sisko in it... :)

I Support peoples freedom of speech and expression and therefore that. The disappointing thing is its another film that tries to show that thoughts out side of the norm are wrong. Sort of like the more recent "This Is England".

I thought it was really good because of how it made you (me atleast) think. For example....when they were talking about illegal immigration driving citizens to be fired in exchange for cheaper labor, I couldn't help but say.."yeah that isn't right." When they were at the dinner table talking about the Rodney King trail, I couldn't help but agreeing with Derek when he said that people get so wrapped up in the "injustice and racism of the system", that they forget that this guy was speeding around, high as a kite and then charged and attacked the cops....

But then you see that it is not as simple as this race is good and this race is bad, because for example his only true friend in jail, and the reason he got out alive, was a cool black guy....meanwhile his "white racial warriors" :rolleyes: raped him..... Also, the black teacher Sweeney makes such a great point in the video by saying, "has anything you've done make your life better." I thought it was so powerful when he said that.

I think it was a fantastic movie because it shows you why for example some White people living in these super multicultural places (and I lived in Southern California..so I know), get fed up with whats happening to society....but then it also shows the extremes that some people find comfort in, which only goes to make them worse and like Sweeney said, not actually improve their lives by living through hate.

Though it did make me feel strange about the meaning I was supposed to take from the movie once his brother got shot simply for standing up for a white boy who was getting picked on by some black thugs....

Deja vu but here's some thoughts on that from before, FWIW

Old Thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=539247)

It does make you think when you watch it. How can we have freedom of speech though if we suppress the speech of groups like the Aryan Brotherhood or the Black Panthers? It is up to the individual (who was hopefully raised in a good, wholesome household) to decide for themselves what they deem to be proper. No one can make that decision for them. Everyone has prejudices, and no matter how open minded someone may claim to be, you will still find that there are things that they can't tolerate. By saying that I hate racists, you still hate. If you don't allow them the same freedoms allowed to all, then you have in a way accomplished what they seek to do and are no better than them. Free will, love it or hate it. The decisions in life belong to the individual, not to society.:sniper:

I like the film in general, but by the end I did get kinda tired of the whole 'Racism is bad, mmmkay?' message. Yeah, I get that, move on.

It's nicely shot with a simple but effective story, some good dialogue and some excellent acting. But it is let down by the heavy handed morality thing.

To answer the first question:
I say no, he's already pissed off the neo-nazis at home and in jail, so theres no way he could go back even if he wanted to

between American History X, and Romper Stomper, they both show a valid point, that neo-nazis/skinheads are weak inside, and they hide it by the violent outburts they commit for their beliefs
The only dedicated one in Romper Stomper was played by Russel Crowe, and he got killed by a traitor in the end of that movie

Shame about how american history x went, he had a hot girlfriend until he went traitor

between American History X, and Romper Stomper, they both show a valid point, that neo-nazis/skinheads are weak inside, and they hide it by the violent outburts they commit for their beliefs

I think youve missed the point of the movie.


But, since the point disagrees with your belief that we should exterminate blacks and jews, I shouldnt be suprised.

Why is it disappointing? Do you want people to have the freedom to spread racism and other forms of institutionalizable hate?

The annoying thing about the movie was having Ben Sisko in it... :)

It's perfectly fine for people to have those opinions. They are not nice opinions to have, and normally aren't well thought out, but you can't say they aren't valid because you don't agree with them.

As you could see in the movie, it is possible to change someone's mind if someone else cares to make the effort, or if they are made to see logic. That is a better way to change people's minds than saying UR STUPIDD!

I like the film in general, but by the end I did get kinda tired of the whole 'Racism is bad, mmmkay?' message. Yeah, I get that, move on.

It's nicely shot with a simple but effective story, some good dialogue and some excellent acting. But it is let down by the heavy handed morality thing.
I agree. It was a good movie but it wasn't a great movie. The whole change in Norton's character was too simple and easy. He annoys the other skins, they rape him, black guy feels sorry for him which makes him realise racism is a 'BAD thing'.

But then it was aimed at mainstream American audience, and the movie studios have quite a low opinion of that target market's reasoning skills and attention span.

Edward Norton doesn't care about Black people.

I would call it another "racism is bad" movie, but what added the most depth was the ending. So it wasn't just clear cut about morality.

So, FX has been showing this movie again, and I'd have to say this is one of my top 10 films of all time to watch. I think it shows how someone can be a racist (whether it's white or black) and how even though we may not teach it to our kids directly, they can still pick up on it by how we act and how we talk about other people. It's a very powerful and intense film. I also like the ending when Derek's brother got shot by a black person. The reason I like that part is that Derek went through a transformation from a Neo-Nazi racist to a guy who tolerates black in the movie. Now that his brother been shot by a black person, does his transformation stick or does he go back the way he use to be?

Thoughts?

Saw this with a friend when I was 14 and it instantly became one of my favorites. I've seen it 10 times or so---it's so hard to watch, but so amazing (I close my eyes/mute through a couple bits). I think what really struck me was the fact that Derek was such an intelligent, articulate man and charismatic in a way, much like they say Hitler was. You almost get seduced listening to some of his speeches because they're grounded in truth--messed up things DO happen along race lines, what happened to his dad was horrible. But where he goes wrong is in generalizing these things--a black person shot his dad, so black people are BAD. If you don't think through it carefully for yourself you can see how someone might be taken by some of his arguments, that's why critical thinking and analysis are so important.

Also, I love the scene in the bathroom when he takes a shower and then puts his hand over the swastika tattoo. It always makes me choke up, and the cinematography is beautiful.

You just have to point and laugh at all those freaks who get swaztika tattoos, then change their politics, and have a hard time explaining things later on

"oh no, im not racist,....anymore...."


one real twisted thing i saw once, was this black guy who had a swaztika tattoo on the base of his neckline
If [WTF] signs could pop up over people's heads, mine would have been the size of a car

You just have to point and laugh at all those freaks who get swaztika tattoos, then change their politics, and have a hard time explaining things later on

"oh no, im not racist,....anymore...."


one real twisted thing i saw once, was this black guy who had a swaztika tattoo on the base of his neckline
If [WTF] signs could pop up over people's heads, mine would have been the size of a car

Was a it a swastika or the native american symbol for medicine? They're almost identical. Or maybe he was being ironic...