NationStates Jolt Archive

Think about Baltar... the character that pretty much is hated by every single other main character on BSG. He was clearly a villain in the original series, but is he a villain now?

I say no.

Baltar seems to me like a similar character to Londo Mollari in Babylon 5. He's a guy who has the best intentions most of the time but has somehow or anotehr fallen under the control of an enemy and is just trying to survive and mitigate the damage as much as he can along the way.

Here's a guy who was obviously very highly trusted by Colonial military security, probably holding some sort of very high level security clearance, implying his life to that point was clean and free of corruption. Clearly he's self centered but his weakness is sex.

And so along comes Six who uses his weakness to get access to the Colonial network. In that way, he's as much a victim as anyone, although certainly he did do wrong by giving her access. Not making excuses for the man, but Six seems to be especially adept at using sexuality to achieve her ends.

So here's a guy who made a terrible mistake, and as a result is now under the blackmail of the Cylons. Mind-Six uses this tactic on him numerous times when he decides he needs to break away from Cylon control and start being a real team player. Notice that each time he'd do this, she would threaten to expose him for what he'd done. This is a common form of manipulation, again, victimizing Baltar.

Positive traits?

Well twice now he's been in a position to sacrifice his life for another. The first was when Helo/Boomer's raptor was letting people draw lots for space on board. The blind woman beside Baltar had a winning number but didn't know it. She asked him to read her number.

This was a perfect chance for Baltar to save himself and let her die... but he didn't. He did the right thing. He only survived because Helo recognized him and gave up his own seat.

The second time was when he prayed to God to take his life instead of the boy's in the most recent episode.

This seems to suggest Baltar has a vein of selfless behavior that is a very strong positive trait, and one that may or may not be shared by some of the ot her "heroes" of the show.

I think on some level Baltar is the most realistic character on the show, because he's the one that has the least obvious SciFi hero traits and instead just does what he must to survive and preserve what dignity he can in the wake of one singular horrible mistake.

Other than being annoyingly high strung, what makes this guy a villain, really?

The first act you cited was guilt, not selflessness. He actually has a conscious and it is constantly tormented for the sins (both real and perceived) that he has committed.

Also "Mind-Six" is some sort of Devil on his shoulder. Just like "Mind Baltar" is a Devil on Six, aka Caprica,'s shoulder.

Think about Baltar... the character that pretty much is hated by every single other main character on BSG. He was clearly a villain in the original series, but is he a villain now?

I say no.

Baltar seems to me like a similar character to Londo Mollari in Babylon 5. ...


Two points there. 1. when I watch the original mini-series movie on DVD and see how awesome it was, I want to cry about what the show has become today... 2., On Fridays when BG comes on now, I pop in a B5 DVD and me and my wife watch that instead. nuff said

The first act you cited was guilt, not selflessness. He actually has a conscious and it is constantly tormented for the sins (both real and perceived) that he has committed.

I agree, but one thing that was quasi-established before that was that, as Six put it:"The human race is about to end and all you can think about is how it will affect Gaius Baltar."

So he certainly didn't seem to feel much guilt at that point, only fear of what would happen if he were caught. Maybe a coping mechanism.

But I think that was just a panic reaction, and that on some level when he did the right thing for the blind woman, he was acting both out of guilt and out of a sense of self-sacrifice/justice over what he'd done.

And like you said, he's got a conscience, and apparently he listens to it, and that's a good thing.

Two points there. 1. when I watch the original mini-series movie on DVD and see how awesome it was, I want to cry about what the show has become today... 2., On Fridays when BG comes on now, I pop in a B5 DVD and me and my wife watch that instead. nuff said

I loved B5 and Straczynski's writing is superb, no doubt. I have the entire series on DVD.

But I do find BSG to have more realistic characters and a deeper storyline.

Baltar is a redemptive character. He has sinned against mankind, and he carries an immense burden for the results of his actions, which were almost all borne of poor judgment, not malice, but he will prove to be pivotal in the survival of mankind.

Looking at everything that has happened, Baltar's "crimes", allowing the Six access to the MoD networks, giving a nuclear bomb to the Pegasus Six and colonizing New Caprica all had to do with him operating in good faith of others, of an actual desire to do something kind of good, and such. Baltar, though, has made routinely poor decisions, when it comes to trusting people and deciding what is good.

Of course, he's also a selfish, greedy, manipulative prick, but that's nothing that he can actually be condemned for.

In fact, the only crime he can really be charged with is misappropriation of government funds and fraud in regards to his "cylon detection system".

I'm beginning to think that the real villain in this show is Laura Roslin. She never backs down, never changes her mind, never shows compassion, she's perfectly willing to kill an unarmed, distraught Kara Thrace in cold blood, she refuses to acknowledge any culpability in her actions, she's willing, even eager, to commit genocide in a morally reprehensible fashion. She uses her health as a bludgeon to control others. She lies, cheats, steals and destroys reputations, all, presumably, for the good of mankind. These may be leadership qualities, but I'm really growing to detest the woman.

It occurred to me, as I re-read my previous post, that Roslin and Baltar are two sides of a coin. They, in many ways, mirror each other - as one struggles for redemption of his own soul (and by extension, the soul of all humans) and the other struggles for the redemption of humanity at the cost of her own soul.

I'm beginning to think that the real villain in this show is Laura Roslin. She never backs down, never changes her mind, never shows compassion, she's perfectly willing to kill an unarmed, distraught Kara Thrace in cold blood, she refuses to acknowledge any culpability in her actions, she's willing, even eager, to commit genocide in a morally reprehensible fashion. She uses her health as a bludgeon to control others. She lies, cheats, steals and destroys reputations, all, presumably, for the good of mankind. These may be leadership qualities, but I'm really growing to detest the woman.

She is definitely becoming more heavy-handed and despotic. I think what Adama said to her, that she's afraid she's not the dying leader she thought she was, really rings true for her. She's determined to get the fleet to Earth using her path so that her death can have some meaning.

Also, she was complicit in rigging an election to ensure her position. She engineered a backroom deal with Tom Zarek to regain her presidency without being elected. In fact, she's NEVER been elected president, yet she acts as though she has a mandate of the people. She's a few short steps from declaring she has a divine right to the presidency.

In fact, the only crime he can really be charged with is misappropriation of government funds and fraud in regards to his "cylon detection system".

Actually, the system works. If you recall it accurately identified Boomer as a Cylon and apparently someone else in that same episode, as hinted at by Head Six commenting that everybody passes today. People THINK it doesn't work because of the percieved error in identifying Boomer, but it does.

And thus Kara Thrace is NOT a Cylon.

I'm beginning to think that the real villain in this show is Laura Roslin. She never backs down, never changes her mind, never shows compassion, she's perfectly willing to kill an unarmed, distraught Kara Thrace in cold blood, she refuses to acknowledge any culpability in her actions, she's willing, even eager, to commit genocide in a morally reprehensible fashion. She uses her health as a bludgeon to control others. She lies, cheats, steals and destroys reputations, all, presumably, for the good of mankind. These may be leadership qualities, but I'm really growing to detest the woman.

I agree completely. She was a very sympathetic character at the beginning but now the only word I can think of to describe her is "ruthless."

She has violated the agreement between her and Adama (which was the mortar holding the civilian and military command sturctures together)
She rigged an election
She attempted to kill Starbuck in cold blood
She blew Leoben out of an airlock after assuring him she would not
Her first reaction to the presence of Athena was to order HER blown out of an airlock
She lied to Athena and Helo about their child (who conveniently saved her life)
She attempted to hide their child from them, resulting in the baby's capture by the Cylons
She ordered the suspension of abortions in the fleet for ANY reason
She never did apologize to Adama for breaking their agreement
As stated, she made an agreement to regain the presidency out of dubious legality
She wanted Baltar convicted regardless of guilt and attempted to use her influence to make it happen
She has manipulated Apollo on more than one occasion
She ordered the destruction of the Olympic Carrier and let Apollo take the guilt for it
Of all those who are close to Starbuck, she had the most reason to trust her when she 'returned form the dead' and yet was the harshest in criticizing and mistrusting her, demonstrating a disturbing lack of loyalty to one's friends
She condoned the use of torture via psychotropic drugs to interrogate Baltar

...all because of aa self-righteous attitude in which she holds her own opinions and judgement to be of greater value than justice, law and personal integrity.

... Damn... she's even worse than the Cylons...

I pop in a B5 DVD and me and my wife watch that instead. nuff saidYou ... a B5 fan? :confused:
*twitches with what could be called respect*

... Damn... she's even worse than the Cylons...

Until recently, she was my prime candidate for the last cylon.

But she's not. I know who is though. :)

Until recently, she was my prime candidate for the last cylon.

But she's not. I know who is though. :)
Fass, as you'd alluded on a different thread?

Fass, as you'd alluded on a different thread?

Yep. *nod*

The thing is, when watching the election episode I really wanted Baltar to win over Rosslyn and got annoyed when it got rigged by Colonel Tai, but as soon as Baltar was in office and the way he acted - I hated him almost straight after that when he essentially became a corrupt arrogance bitch. Funny how that works...

She is definitely becoming more heavy-handed and despotic. I think what Adama said to her, that she's afraid she's not the dying leader she thought she was, really rings true for her. She's determined to get the fleet to Earth using her path so that her death can have some meaning.

Also, she was complicit in rigging an election to ensure her position. She engineered a backroom deal with Tom Zarek to regain her presidency without being elected. In fact, she's NEVER been elected president, yet she acts as though she has a mandate of the people. She's a few short steps from declaring she has a divine right to the presidency.
In a manner of words she already has with her 'prophecies' and playing the religious card so often.

personally i don't think Balthazar's weakness is sex..........i think its vanity


let me explain Balthazar always makes decisions based on how he will have to see himself

what i mean by that is he desperately wants to look in the mirror and see a truly good man, like allot of very high IQ people he is VERY insecure and is a metaphor for the way "clever" people go through life terrified that someone will realize that they are just "normal".

and like allot of desperately inadequate people he discovered "politics" and "religion" two large things bigger than himself that he can devote himself to and therefore prove his worth

martyrdom will always appeal to those people desperate to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are worthwhile human beings as it offers total and incontravertabe proof that the martyr is not a selfish person.
this tendency is best symbolized by him praying to save the life of the child.
due to the innocent nature of the child he offers Balthazar a path to redemption but rather than just pray for the child's life he CHOOSES to offer his own life for that of the child seeking his own destruction of his own free will in order to fulfill his wish for destruction/redemption/proof of his own worth as a human being

sorry i get a bit carried away sometimes lol

She is definitely becoming more heavy-handed and despotic. I think what Adama said to her, that she's afraid she's not the dying leader she thought she was, really rings true for her. She's determined to get the fleet to Earth using her path so that her death can have some meaning.

Also, she was complicit in rigging an election to ensure her position. She engineered a backroom deal with Tom Zarek to regain her presidency without being elected. In fact, she's NEVER been elected president, yet she acts as though she has a mandate of the people. She's a few short steps from declaring she has a divine right to the presidency.

So she's Hillary Clinton in space?

yes baltar is a villain.

hes not the cardboard cutout villain of the original series. *shudder*

he is a complicated conflicted character that always does the wrong thing for selfish reasons. being slightly crazy helps with that. he is all the more interesting for not being purely evil. pure evil doesnt exist in the world and makes for a boring character (like in the original series)

and speaking of evil...

OHMYGOD DID YOU WATCH LAST NIGHT'S SHOW?

Tory Foster is evil, no doubt there.

and speaking of evil...

OHMYGOD DID YOU WATCH LAST NIGHT'S SHOW?

Indeed, Roslin and her aide are well-matched - just too cold-blooded. I'm becoming more and more convinced that Roslin is the 12th Cylon.

Actually, the system works. If you recall it accurately identified Boomer as a Cylon and apparently someone else in that same episode, as hinted at by Head Six commenting that everybody passes today. People THINK it doesn't work because of the percieved error in identifying Boomer, but it does.

And thus Kara Thrace is NOT a Cylon.



I agree completely. She was a very sympathetic character at the beginning but now the only word I can think of to describe her is "ruthless."

She has violated the agreement between her and Adama (which was the mortar holding the civilian and military command sturctures together)
She rigged an election
She attempted to kill Starbuck in cold blood
She blew Leoben out of an airlock after assuring him she would not
Her first reaction to the presence of Athena was to order HER blown out of an airlock
She lied to Athena and Helo about their child (who conveniently saved her life)
She attempted to hide their child from them, resulting in the baby's capture by the Cylons
She ordered the suspension of abortions in the fleet for ANY reason
She never did apologize to Adama for breaking their agreement
As stated, she made an agreement to regain the presidency out of dubious legality
She wanted Baltar convicted regardless of guilt and attempted to use her influence to make it happen
She has manipulated Apollo on more than one occasion
She ordered the destruction of the Olympic Carrier and let Apollo take the guilt for it
Of all those who are close to Starbuck, she had the most reason to trust her when she 'returned form the dead' and yet was the harshest in criticizing and mistrusting her, demonstrating a disturbing lack of loyalty to one's friends
She condoned the use of torture via psychotropic drugs to interrogate Baltar

...all because of aa self-righteous attitude in which she holds her own opinions and judgement to be of greater value than justice, law and personal integrity.

... Damn... she's even worse than the Cylons...

Maybe she's the last, hidden one.

When Baltar was found to be alive and not guilty, under every democratic system that exists, he should have been restored to his position as President. The writers just seem to want us to accept that the people wouldn't know this or even bother to address the issue. Which pisses me off. He's found not guilty and loses his elected post? No.

Truth is that he could cause a lot of problems for Roslin by portraying himself as the true leader of the fleet who's been deposed in a military coup. Which is exactly what the situation is. Roslin is not becoming an unelected tyrant, she already is one, she's just becoming worse and worse. But they have been very unclear about how much support he still has. They talk about how hated he is, then Zarek talks about his supporters using violence during the trial, then no ship till take him despite the fact that at least 2 other captain's voted him not guilty. That's ridiculous. The show is generally well-written, but it has it's big holes too.

Roslin is extremely petty. The way she acted towards Baltar before and after the debates and then trying to steal the election really revealed that. She defines a sore loser.

And on B5. I'd say one of the best things about the writing on the show is the fact that they actually had a romantic pairing without all the teen drama nonsense that ruins so many shows. I think it's really the only sci-fi show that has ever been able to put together a couple that actually had a healthy relationship and were not constantly fighting or hating each other in every other episode. And no new love interested to annoy everyone.

Maybe she's the last, hidden one.

I thought so too, but I'm leaning away from that because in her shared dream with Caprica 6, they saw the final 5 on the balcony.

When Baltar was found to be alive and not guilty, under every democratic system that exists, he should have been restored to his position as President. The writers just seem to want us to accept that the people wouldn't know this or even bother to address the issue. Which pisses me off. He's found not guilty and loses his elected post? No.

Truth is that he could cause a lot of problems for Roslin by portraying himself as the true leader of the fleet who's been deposed in a military coup. Which is exactly what the situation is. Roslin is not becoming an unelected tyrant, she already is one, she's just becoming worse and worse. But they have been very unclear about how much support he still has. They talk about how hated he is, then Zarek talks about his supporters using violence during the trial, then no ship till take him despite the fact that at least 2 other captain's voted him not guilty. That's ridiculous. The show is generally well-written, but it has it's big holes too.

Roslin is extremely petty. The way she acted towards Baltar before and after the debates and then trying to steal the election really revealed that. She defines a sore loser.

And on B5. I'd say one of the best things about the writing on the show is the fact that they actually had a romantic pairing without all the teen drama nonsense that ruins so many shows. I think it's really the only sci-fi show that has ever been able to put together a couple that actually had a healthy relationship and were not constantly fighting or hating each other in every other episode. And no new love interested to annoy everyone.

Although you're assuming their legal system is 100% like ours.

One could also argue that by willingly taking refuge with the Cylons he abandoned that post anyway.

Maybe she's the last, hidden one.

Except that Ron Moore has categorically denied that it's either Roslin or Adama.

I find this whole the 4 cylons thing to be very confusing. Can someone please explain several confusing points?

First how can Colonal Tye be a Cylon? He went back to the first Cylon War when human looking Cylons didnt even exist. If he was substituted for a replica Cylon when he was captured then how did he still retain the memories of the "old days" with Adama? If your going to say, well maybe Col. Tye was a secret beta version in the original Cylon war, but if he was a Cylon way back then,and was inserted into humanity way back then, then how did he age? Cylons as far as we know do not age physically.

Secondly, wasnt the big deal about that Cylon/human Baby was that it was a magical and unique creation that was half Cylon half human and it was this great baby of destiny yada yada. Well if thats such a big deal, then what about The Chiefs baby which is now also half human half cylon? And i thought that wasnt even possible hence why the first baby was such a big deal in the first place. So how can Chief be Cylon?

So how can Chief be Cylon?
Wasn't his girlfriend Cyclon? That Asian girl. Can't remember her name, they stopped broadcasting the show a year ago in the middle of a damned season. They ended it emmm, about after that stealth-ship they made out of scratch got destroyed. Still looking for a proper stream to continue it, but can't find any.

I find this whole the 4 cylons thing to be very confusing. Can someone please explain several confusing points?

First how can Colonal Tye be a Cylon? He went back to the first Cylon War when human looking Cylons didnt even exist. If he was substituted for a replica Cylon when he was captured then how did he still retain the memories of the "old days" with Adama? If your going to say, well maybe Col. Tye was a secret beta version in the original Cylon war, but if he was a Cylon way back then,and was inserted into humanity way back then, then how did he age? Cylons as far as we know do not age physically.

Secondly, wasnt the big deal about that Cylon/human Baby was that it was a magical and unique creation that was half Cylon half human and it was this great baby of destiny yada yada. Well if thats such a big deal, then what about The Chiefs baby which is now also half human half cylon? And i thought that wasnt even possible hence why the first baby was such a big deal in the first place. So how can Chief be Cylon?

The four of them have been called 'fundamentally different' types of cylons. I suspect that the final 5 weren't originally hiding from humans or sleeper agents for the cylons. I think the final 5 were hiding FROM the cylons. I think the 12 models experienced some sort of rift that caused the 5 to go into hiding and the other 7 to make it taboo to talk about them. Since we've never seen any other cylon's past that far back, we really don't know for sure if the other 7 cylons can age, but we don't know that they can't either.

Finally, I suspect that what makes Hera so special isn't that she's the child of a cylon and a human. I suspect that what makes her special is that she's the child of two cylons. *nod*

Although you're assuming their legal system is 100% like ours.

One could also argue that by willingly taking refuge with the Cylons he abandoned that post anyway.

Except that Ron Moore has categorically denied that it's either Roslin or Adama.

I'm not assuming anything. Moore has made it clear that the Colonial government is based on the U.S. model, at least in terms of the Presidency.

They don't know that he left willingly with the Cylons. They don't know much about what Baltar's done wrong. Surely he said that he was abducted by them by force.

Does it make sense that an elected leader is removed from office, then found not guilty of all charges against him and still not restored to office? That makes no sense. Baltar should still legally be the President. They should at least address that. But the whole brief nonsense about putting Roslin into office was handled badly anyway.

I find this whole the 4 cylons thing to be very confusing. Can someone please explain several confusing points?


I'd be happy to.


First how can Colonal Tye be a Cylon? He went back to the first Cylon War when human looking Cylons didnt even exist. If he was substituted for a replica Cylon when he was captured then how did he still retain the memories of the "old days" with Adama? If your going to say, well maybe Col. Tye was a secret beta version in the original Cylon war, but if he was a Cylon way back then,and was inserted into humanity way back then, then how did he age? Cylons as far as we know do not age physically.


He probably has false memories, just like Boomer had before she was 'activated.' Remember that he and William Adama didn't meet until years after the first Cylon War.


Secondly, wasnt the big deal about that Cylon/human Baby was that it was a magical and unique creation that was half Cylon half human and it was this great baby of destiny yada yada. Well if thats such a big deal, then what about The Chiefs baby which is now also half human half cylon? And i thought that wasnt even possible hence why the first baby was such a big deal in the first place. So how can Chief be Cylon?

From that we conclude that Cylon/Human reproduction is no more difficult than Human/Human. It appears to be impossible for two Cylons to have a baby, but crossovers are evidently no problem.

Wasn't his girlfriend Cyclon? That Asian girl. Can't remember her name, they stopped broadcasting the show a year ago in the middle of a damned season. They ended it emmm, about after that stealth-ship they made out of scratch got destroyed. Still looking for a proper stream to continue it, but can't find any.

Yes Sharon Valeri AKA Boomer. At the time of their affair, neither knew that they were a Cylon.

I'm not assuming anything. Moore has made it clear that the Colonial government is based on the U.S. model, at least in terms of the Presidency.

Granted, but it doesn't disqualify the possibility of minor differences as the plot may require.



They don't know that he left willingly with the Cylons. They don't know much about what Baltar's done wrong. Surely he said that he was abducted by them by force.

Maybe, but remember that he returned to Galactica as part of the emissary team composed of Boomer, D'Anna and Cavil. He was there willingly and left willingly. If he were a prisoner he could have easily escaped his Cylon captors at that point. It is thus reasonable to conclude that he was not a prisoner.



Does it make sense that an elected leader is removed from office, then found not guilty of all charges against him and still not restored to office? That makes no sense. Baltar should still legally be the President. They should at least address that. But the whole brief nonsense about putting Roslin into office was handled badly anyway.

I agree it was badly handled but I don't blame the writing, I blame Roslin's ever increasing corruption.

Roslin's status and the pilot situation is the only real big holes that BSG has and can't be fixed.

And by the pilot situation, I mean they never introduced the proper number of pilots they needed. They still have pilots left from pre-war days and suddenly stim junkie Kat took charge against Pegasus or became CAG when they got to New Caprica instead of the pre-war pilots from both ships? I don't think so. That was hard to buy.

Roslin's status and the pilot situation is the only real big holes that BSG has and can't be fixed.

And by the pilot situation, I mean they never introduced the proper number of pilots they needed. They still have pilots left from pre-war days and suddenly stim junkie Kat took charge against Pegasus or became CAG when they got to New Caprica instead of the pre-war pilots from both ships? I don't think so. That was hard to buy.

yeah. its an obvious problem that they dont seem to really address. they did have pilot training and i suppose they leave us to think that its ongoing and that there are far more trainees than we ever see.

i guess its just not that interesting a topic for the producers so an episode or 2 devoted to manpower problems of all sorts covers it no matter how bad the hole is.

Yeah, but their pilot training was brief to say the least. They had Hotdog become like an ace pilot after a few days of training. It was pretty ridiculous. They'd have scenes with the pilot's having a meeting and it would be almost empty, but then they'd have 40 Vipers go up in the next battle or introduce one pilot for an episode.

I've never heard them talk about this in Q&A's either. I just think it would be tough to get a bunch of experienced pilots who attended military academies and flight schools to accept someone like Kat as the CAG.

Yeah, but their pilot training was brief to say the least. They had Hotdog became like an ace pilot after a few days of training. It was pretty ridiculous.

I've never hard them about talk about this in Q&A's either. I just think it would be tough to get a bunch of experienced pilots who attended military academies and flight schools to accept someone like Kat as the CAG.

i agree.

but its a side issue to the whole finding earth and saving humanity thing so i forgive them for addressing it so poorly.

Yeah, you just have to kick the suspension of disbelief into full gear and ignore parts of it. Heh.

Yeah, but their pilot training was brief to say the least. They had Hotdog become like an ace pilot after a few days of training. It was pretty ridiculous. They'd have scenes with the pilot's having a meeting and it would be almost empty, but then they'd have 40 Vipers go up in the next battle or introduce one pilot for an episode.

I've never heard them about talk about this in Q&A's either. I just think it would be tough to get a bunch of experienced pilots who attended military academies and flight schools to accept someone like Kat as the CAG.

Before the attacks on the colonies, Hot Dog was an academy wash-out. They never said why he washed out, but apparently it wasn't lack of skill.

Yeah, that was something at least. They said they had some experience and weren't completely raw. I would think handling a modern fighter should still take some time to learn, but whatever. I remember watching that episode and wondering what the hell? In addition to the new recruits we saw, they mentioned that they had I think two flight instructors in the fleet. I was like damn, why wouldn't they be chosen as the new pilots?

Hmmmm, experienced flight instructors or a bunch of kids who say they have done some flying? I'll take the latter.

But as I said. Where were all the pilots they obviously they still had like for instance the bald Chinese guy among others from before or why wouldn't the pilots from Pegasus be put in charge over new trainees when they joined? It doesn't work. You just have to try and ignore it.

They never said why he washed out, but apparently it wasn't lack of skill.The old don'taskdon'ttell policy?

The old don'taskdon'ttell policy?

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That has to be it. But Hot Dog isn't in enough scenes to be annoying, unlike Kat was.

Though I dislike him because he's only in the cast because of his father.

Baltar to me has proven that his number 1 priority is to save his own ass. And the few times he risked his life was not because of some higher purpose but because it was the best possible chance to save his ass. Then he got the idea of being a prophet into his head from the Cylon ghost he was stuck with so now he had delusions of godliness to justify him keeping his own ass safe.

After he allowed himself to be used to give the codes to the colonial defense network he is at the very least an idiot and then lived it up on New Caprica while the rest of the human race suffered proves him to be an opportunistic bastard so i am not going to give that man any sympathy whatsoever even if he isn't the classic "evil" character.

I used to like baltar. Around the end of season 2 though, I realized something.

He's a cowardly whiny little snot.

He probably has false memories, just like Boomer had before she was 'activated.' Remember that he and William Adama didn't meet until years after the first Cylon War.


Then how did Tye age then?

Then how did Tye age then?

Actually, we have no reason to assume that Cylons don't age. At the same time, we do know from comments made by Ron Moore that Tigh and the other 3 'new' Cylons are of a fundamentally different type, and aging may be a part of them.

I think the Articles of Confederation, while similar, are not completely the same as the US Constitution, for one the military is given such more autonomy in the Colonies than in the US constitution. Is it ever stated that the President of the 12 colonies is the Commander-in-chief?

I loves me the new Extra Baltar from Six of One. I genuinely hope they bring that back as a recurring and hilarious feature for Gaius Baltar, and a conflict between Extra Baltar and Extra Six would be classic times all 'round.

Also, the last ep, Ties That Bind - utter disappointment for the first half, utter genius for the second! (although I still hate Apollo being a politician :()

I think the blond chick should just shoot the president and everyone will be happier.

Gaius Baltar IS a villian, hes just a pathetic asswipe as well.

He not only ONCE, but TWICE, essentially sold out the human race.
Hes also aided and abetted the enemy on several occasions.
It doesnt matter if he did so to save himself, or "had no choice".
He did it.

Hes lied at every given opportunity to "do the right thing", including warning anyone of the presence of cylons among the fleet.

Hes not only a villian, hes also a douchebag.

Every damn episode, hes also crying.
Hes a crybaby villianous douchebag, who is only out to save his own ass, and doesnt truly give a shit about anyone or anything, except Caprica 6.

I do have to say, I recently started watching this show, and MAN is it great!
Since its a Sci-Fi channel production, I certainly wasnt expecting anything.
But the acting is top-notch, the cgi is great, and the plots are fantastic.

Also, is it just me, or is there something REALLY hot about Starbuck?
oh, and the Bridge COM officer, whos name I cant remember. (Married Apollo)
Lt Brown Sugar......rowr!

Admiral Adama is the whip.
Period.

What I really like about the show is all the tough decisions folks like Adama, and Pres Rosilyn have to make all the time. They agonize over it, but in the end, its all about the survival of the human race, so some decisions are easier to make.

I think the Articles of Confederation, while similar, are not completely the same as the US Constitution, for one the military is given such more autonomy in the Colonies than in the US constitution. Is it ever stated that the President of the 12 colonies is the Commander-in-chief?

Im assuming it is assumed, as after Adama takes command of the entire fleet, after the aquisition of Pegasus, Rosilyn makes him an Admiral.
I would assume only the Commander in Chief could make that decision.

Yeah and given that when Baltar was elected President, he ordered Adama to colonize New Caprica which also sounds like an act of a Commander-In-Chief

Hey did anybody notice this: The Constellation Orion in the background (http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:Orion_belt.jpg)

It would seem this was not an accident, as the camera hovered over this area for several seconds as the hostile baseships jumped in.

So either that fleet is VERY close to earth, or our own Sun is somewhere in the stars of the background.

....nerd.... :p

....nerd.... :p

That ain't nothin.' You want nerdy?

My wife and I, after noticing a constellation that COULD have been Orion in another scene, the one where Cally is looking out the window while she's standing with Nicky in the viper launch tube, decided to whip out Celestia, an astronomy program, and we noticed the constellation Cassiopeia inverted from that perspective. Using the program, we adjusted the viewing perspective and we figure Galactica is currently about 750-900 LY away from Earth.

Sound like a lot? That's less than 1% of the width of the Milky Way Galaxy.

That ain't nothin.' You want nerdy?

My wife and I, after noticing a constellation that COULD have been Orion in another scene, the one where Cally is looking out the window while she's standing with Nicky in the viper launch tube, decided to whip out Celestia, an astronomy program, and we noticed the constellation Cassiopeia inverted from that perspective.

Except that even Orion wouldnt look like Orion unless you viewed it exactly from Earths angle and perspective.

Except that even Orion wouldnt look like Orion unless you viewed it exactly from Earths angle and perspective.

Exactly, and Orion didn't look right in that shot, which is what made us think maybe it was from a different angle. Not all the stars were there, and were at the wrong angle...

...unless you were behind it, with some of the remaining stars behind you.

Here's a funny question.

If Starbuck is indeed the fifth Cylon, then Baltar has managed to bang four of the five female Cylons.

So has he/will he seduce an Eight and complete the quintuple?

Here's a funny question.

If Starbuck is indeed the fifth Cylon, then Baltar has managed to bang four of the five female Cylons.

So has he/will he seduce an Eight and complete the quintuple?

I'm amazed he hasn't already.

I'm telling you though, the last Cylon is Starbuck's mom.

I'm amazed he hasn't already.

I'm telling you though, the last Cylon is Starbuck's mom.

is starbucks mother still alive?

I'm amazed he hasn't already.

I'm telling you though, the last Cylon is Starbuck's mom.

Given the fact that they already made it clear that he was really attracted to Sharon and he was with the Cylons for so many months with nothing to do. I guess it's likely that he bagged some Eights. Given how sexual they are. It's not like Boomer had much else to do either.

It's not going to be Starbuck's mom. I don't even know how that idiotic theory started. Admiral Adama's wife is a more likely candidate. Mr Gaeta is a far more likely choice as well. Or Dee. Or that lawyer guy. Or one of Baltar's handmaidens in the God cult.

And has anybody else thought of the ramifications of Galen Tyrol being one of the final 5? That makes his kid another half-cylon, and of the final 5 at that.

And has anybody else thought of the ramifications of Galen Tyrol being one of the final 5? That makes his kid another half-cylon, and of the final 5 at that.

Just looking at it from different perspectives, I think there's a significantly greater number of halfie-children floating around the fleet than we think.

Although, I'm half convinced that that fifth of the final five isn't actually one of the main characters. I suspect that's going to be a weirdness that they spring on us at the last minute. It's going to be someone random.

is starbucks mother still alive?

No, but that's the beauty of it... She doesn't need to be ;) At least, not in that body.


It's not going to be Starbuck's mom. I don't even know how that idiotic theory started. Admiral Adama's wife is a more likely candidate. Mr Gaeta is a far more likely choice as well. Or Dee. Or that lawyer guy. Or one of Baltar's handmaidens in the God cult.


I'll tell you how it got started. It got started in a post of mine a few weeks back and I'm sticking to it, unless you have something that categorically proves me wrong.

Here.
Old Thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13579856&postcount=1)


And has anybody else thought of the ramifications of Galen Tyrol being one of the final 5? That makes his kid another half-cylon, and of the final 5 at that.

Yep.

I think i have who the final Cylon is. Its Richard Hatch. He wrote the series, hes currently the Vice President of the Colonies,and hes been quietly a person in power throught the whole series and has been constantly working behind the scenes. Hes also turned Adamas son against his father to cause further chaos in the fleet. It adds up.

I think i have who the final Cylon is. Its Richard Hatch. He wrote the series, hes currently the Vice President of the Colonies,and hes been quietly a person in power throught the whole series and has been constantly working behind the scenes. Hes also turned Adamas son against his father to cause further chaos in the fleet. It adds up.

ooo i like that theory.

Hey guys, does anyone know when season four is coming to DVD?

Hey guys, does anyone know when season four is coming to DVD?

no but id guess christmastime this year.

I remember Gaeta saying something along the lines of Gaius Baltar having a preternatural ability to self-preservation, though I admit I'll have to go through my season 3 DVDs to be sure. If that is taken in context, all Baltar has done is logical if seen through that prism. His signing of the death warrant was not evil, since he had a gun to his head at the time. All through the series, Gaius has been selfish and arrogant, but not evil. It is one of the things that has led me to love the character but dislike his actions. He is the stereotype of a flawed individual.

no but id guess christmastime this year.

I doubt it, unfortunately. There are rumblings of the second half of season 4 not airing until Spring 2009, depending on how they want to synchronize it with the spinoff.