NationStates Jolt Archive

Apologies if this is already in the Anonymous vs. Scientology thread, but that thread is just too massive to sift through sometimes. If it is, I'll certainly delete this.

Actor Jason Beghe left the CoS after 14 years. He tears into Scientology in this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07m-IvvpK2E) YouTube video, which appears to be a teaser for a full-length interview.

The article can be found here (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,351287,00.html), unfortunately on FoxNews.com.

So, NSG--thoughts, reactions? We've heard plenty about the joys and evils of Scientologu, but do you think an (admittedly minor) celebrity/actor coming out so strongly against it will change anything? Will other actors follow suit? Will the CoS run over his dog? Will Tom Cruise come out with a counter-video (or just come out)?

Meh, I think people in the church are too...blind...to respond to such an attempt at discreditation, even though the guy know the religion full well.

I wouldn't be surprised is Scientologists replace the tires on this guy's car with faulty tires. That way, this guy dies in a fiery wreck, everyone thinks it was just an accident, and Scientology has one less critic. We're talking about an evil business that uses religious status for tax evasion purposes.

It will only be a matter of time before Scientology goes Jonestown on us.

Good for him.

Now, it's time to derail this thread: Who the hell is Jason Beghe, the actor!?!
I mean, the name doesn't ring any bells. I even watched the YouTube video... and nothing!

I suppose I could always google him up, but I wondered if somebody could tell me (without googling it up).

Good for him.

Now, it's time to derail this thread: Who the hell is Jason Beghe, the actor!?!
I mean, the name doesn't ring any bells. I even watched the YouTube video... and nothing!

I suppose I could always google him up, but I wondered if somebody could tell me (without googling it up).

No clue. I was wondering the same thing.

I suppose I could always google him up, but I wondered if somebody could tell me (without googling it up).

I'll Wikipedia him up!

Jason Beghe is a traitor to Scientology who on April 17, 2008 was deluded and brainwashed into releasing a video onto a known Jew-controlled website that contained lies and gross mistruths about Scientology.

I should probably do something about that article.

The Village Voice says:
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0815,celebrity%20denounces%20scientology,411801,2.html

Will Tom Cruise come out with a counter-video (or just come out)?

Counter video? Perhaps. Come out? Nah. He's in complete and absolute denial.:p

I should probably do something about that article.

If AvengingKeyboard was smart, he would take the current article and just slip that sentence in the middle somewhere instead of replacing the whole article. It would take longer for someone to notice it.

If AvengingKeyboard was smart, he would take the current article and just slip that sentence in the middle somewhere instead of replacing the whole article. It would take longer for someone to notice it.

Fortunately, subtlety is not strong among Wikipedia vandals. :p

Fortunately, subtlety is not strong among Wikipedia vandals. :p

True. It's a good thing most criminals and wikipedia vandals are stupid, or we would have problems dealing with them.

Yeah, good for him for seeing what that "church" is really about. It may not have too much affect on the church itself, but its good to see that the members aren't too afraid to break away if they want to.

Good for him.

Now, it's time to derail this thread: Who the hell is Jason Beghe, the actor!?!
I mean, the name doesn't ring any bells. I even watched the YouTube video... and nothing!

I suppose I could always google him up, but I wondered if somebody could tell me (without googling it up).

He's a TV actor mostly, appearing in Everwood, CSI, Chicago Hope, and the X-Files, among many other things. One of those guys you see in an episode and think you recognize him but you can't remember from where. Not a huge guy in entertainment, but apparently a pretty big guy in the CoS.

He's a TV actor mostly, appearing in Everwood, CSI, Chicago Hope, and the X-Files, among many other things. One of those guys you see in an episode and think you recognize ..
Well, Thank You. I've caught a few glimpses of various CSI's and X-Files... for the life of me, can't remember that guy.

Good thing he has kicked a nasty habit, though.

Scientology won't bump him off. Not unless they get a real case of the stupid.

I'll Wikipedia him up!



I should probably do something about that article.

I started laughing at that and then I started sobbing because I realized they were serious...

the fox article is a bit....alarmist.

mr beghe ESCAPED from scientology. does anyone ever say that someone escaped from the baptist church when they drop affiliation?

the fox article is a bit....alarmist.

mr beghe ESCAPED from scientology. does anyone ever say that someone escaped from the baptist church when they drop affiliation?
Yeah.
Why don't they..!?! Same shit, really.
Not established enough, perchance...

the fox article is a bit....alarmist.

mr beghe ESCAPED from scientology. does anyone ever say that someone escaped from the baptist church when they drop affiliation?

No, but the Baptist church isn't a corporate cult that brainwashes its patrons.

No, but the Baptist church isn't a corporate cult that brainwashes its patrons.

Not as much nor as blatantly as the CoS, at least.

No, but the Baptist church isn't a corporate cult that brainwashes its patrons.

beghe didnt seem like he had much trouble leaving them. he realized that it was BS (maybe because he has never made it big like travolta and cruise) and left the religion.

Youtube says: This video has been removed due to terms of use violation.

Youtube says: This video has been removed due to terms of use violation.
With no explanation of the violation?

Ten bucks say they try to frame him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulette_Cooper

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freakout

http://www.rickross.com/images/ciom.gif

The book "Cults in our Midst" by Margaret Singer amd Janja Lalich s a good book to read to learn about what makes cults tick and how to protect yourself and your loved ones from cults and their tactics.

Ten bucks say they try to frame him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulette_Cooper

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freakout

Yeesh. That's kinda scary. No, that very scary. Note to self: Don't criticize the "Church" of Scientology.

Not as much nor as blatantly as the CoS, at least.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Scientology won't bump him off. Not unless they get a real case of the stupid.

It's the CoS. Overreaction and acting stupid is part of their charter.

the fox article is a bit....alarmist.

mr beghe ESCAPED from scientology. does anyone ever say that someone escaped from the baptist church when they drop affiliation?

Given that one Lisa McPherson was fed to the roaches (literally) for trying to leave, I think it's a semi-suitable statement.

This comment has been removed by the CoS pending litigation.

Given that one Lisa McPherson was fed to the roaches (literally) for trying to leave, I think it's a semi-suitable statement.

he certainly didnt seem to have any problems leaving

maybe he's not gay so he doesnt have to worry about being outed by his former spiritual advisors.

he certainly didnt seem to have any problems leaving

maybe he's not gay so he doesnt have to worry about being outed by his former spiritual advisors.

They probably didn't foresee him leaving before the fact, so they couldn't "disappear" him.

the fox article is a bit....alarmist.

mr beghe ESCAPED from scientology. does anyone ever say that someone escaped from the baptist church when they drop affiliation?

The Baptist Church, while batshit insane, isn't a cult.

Christianity doesn't base salvation on how much you pay the church.

Christianity doesn't currently base salvation on how much you pay the church.

fixed

The Baptist Church, while batshit insane, isn't a cult.

all im saying is that he didnt seem to be a man who had to escape from scientology

fixed

OK, the medieval Catholic Church that sought to combine Christianity, non-Christian philosophies, and the State sought to sell salvation, but that wasn't part of Christian teaching. Biblical Christianity does not and has never taught salvation-through-moolah.

Biblical Christianity does not and has never taught salvation-through-moolah.
In the book of Acts, a donor sells some property and gives money to the church. "Saint" Peter shrieks and yells at him for not giving them every single penny, until the poor old guy has a heart attack and dies. When his wife finds out he is dead, she collapses and dies also. The Biblical church proudly retold this story as a warning to you all of what will happen to you if you don't give them all your money.

the fox article is a bit....alarmist.

mr beghe ESCAPED from scientology. does anyone ever say that someone escaped from the baptist church when they drop affiliation?

The Baptist church don't make you sign a contract to use a web filiter that blocks access to critical sites. Co$ does. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scieno_Sitter) The Baptist church doesn't conspire to have it's critics committed to a mentalk institution. Co$ does. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freakout) The Baptist church doesn't sue it's critics into bankruptcy, buy their assests, and t urn them into a front organization. Co$ does. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_Awareness_Network) The Baptis church doesn't sue Google to remove links to sites that criticise it. Co$ (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E5D7103FF931A15757C0A9649C8B63) does. (http://www.namibian.com.na/2002/March/techtalk/024EC99109.html)

The list goes on and on.

I don't think escape would be incorrect or overly alarmist.

Fortunately, subtlety is not strong among Wikipedia vandals. :p

Speaking as a currently inactive wiki sleeper-cell vandal, subtlety isn't even fun. I mean half the fun was how blatant and ridiculous we could make it.

'Course we actually did fun stuff. Not like the "fred lieks diks" type. No, no. I was the type to vandalize the page on "Archaeology in 1827" and who masterfully turned the article about the pig of the Chinese Zodiac into a treatise on loose women.

What? Never have I claimed to not be juvenile.

In the book of Acts, a donor sells some property and gives money to the church. "Saint" Peter shrieks and yells at him for not giving them every single penny, until the poor old guy has a heart attack and dies. When his wife finds out he is dead, she collapses and dies also. The Biblical church proudly retold this story as a warning to you all of what will happen to you if you don't give them all your money.

Not quite how it was meant. They weren't killed for keeping money. They were killed for lying to God about it.

Acts 5:1-11
Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. With his wife's full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles' feet.

Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God."

When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. Then the young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.

About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter asked her, "Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?"

"Yes," she said, "that is the price."

Peter said to her, "How could you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also."

At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.

Also note that fear in this passage is meant to be taken as reverence, and not in the sense of "ohshitthere'samonsterundermybed".

I just had an idea for Wikipedia vandalism:

Find a WWII article. Replace every mention of "Hitler" with "Dumbass".

I'm not a vandal, but this would be incredibly amusing. Perhaps I'll copy-paste the article, do it on word, then post the result somewhere.

Also note that fear in this passage is meant to be taken as reverence, and not in the sense of "ohshitthere'samonsterundermybed".

When a religion demands that it's worshippers fear it, I think that tells a great deal about the people who are running the show don't you think?

Not quite how it was meant. They weren't killed for keeping money. They were killed for lying to God about it.

That is your interpretation. While I prefer yours, the "God wants all your moolah one" is just as valid. As is "this passage tells us we are all small hamsters that should throw pies".

You can read whatever you want in it. There is no way to know who is right.

As for scientology... come one people. E-meters ? Those are one of the most blatant and obvious lies ever. Why follow a religion that tries to deceive you from day 1 ?

To be on the safe side, go to Russia or Indonesia and then criticize the CO$. I'll get your papers ready for you.

It's fun to criticize from the other side of the world.

To be on the safe side, go to Russia or Indonesia and then criticize the CO$. I'll get your papers ready for you.

It's fun to criticize from the other side of the world.

Try doing it in Cuba, I doubt the commies will allow those capitolistic CO$ to get to him.

If you go to cuba, buy me a Castro Hat.

When a religion demands that it's worshippers fear it, I think that tells a great deal about the people who are running the show don't you think?

Again, I think the issue is that when they spoke of "fear" they didn't mean it in the same sense that we use it today.

To use dictionary.com, fear is:

1. a distressing emotion aroused by impending danger, evil, pain, etc., whether the threat is real or imagined; the feeling or condition of being afraid.
2. a specific instance of or propensity for such a feeling: an abnormal fear of heights.
3. concern or anxiety; solicitude: a fear for someone's safety.
4. reverential awe, esp. toward God.
5. that which causes a feeling of being afraid; that of which a person is afraid: Cancer is a common fear.

Clearly they are referring to #4 which is somewhat different than a feeling of terror.

That is your interpretation.

Um... no shit, Sherlock?

Fascinating :rolleyes:

I'm sure you'll all tune in to "Entertainment Tonight" to see the latest gossip in this unfolding story.

Um... no shit, Sherlock?

Sherlock notes you ignore the point of the post - which is that there is no reason to assume your interpretation is better than any other.

Sherlock notes you ignore the point of the post - which is that there is no reason to assume your interpretation is better than any other.

What's your point? I disagreed on the point of the verse and expressed an alternate viewpoint on how I thought it was meant to be. Whether or not there's a reason to assume mine is any better isn't really relevant to me expressing my point-of-view.

That said, the fact that Peter points out how the money belongs to them anyway seems to support the view that God was pissed about the lie more than the money. That and how Peter mentions about how Satan filled his heart with evil to lie about the money and keep it for himself. Now, he does mention the keeping a portion bit, but the lie gets mentioned a few times more in the passage than anything else which would tend to suggest that the lie was the bigger deal.

Again, I think the issue is that when they spoke of "fear" they didn't mean it in the same sense that we use it today.

To use dictionary.com, fear is:

1. a distressing emotion aroused by impending danger, evil, pain, etc., whether the threat is real or imagined; the feeling or condition of being afraid.
2. a specific instance of or propensity for such a feeling: an abnormal fear of heights.
3. concern or anxiety; solicitude: a fear for someone's safety.
4. reverential awe, esp. toward God.
5. that which causes a feeling of being afraid; that of which a person is afraid: Cancer is a common fear.

Clearly they are referring to #4 which is somewhat different than a feeling of terror.

All that tells me is that this reverential awe is along the lines of "grovel before me piteous creatures, lest I strike you down."

Seems to fit in with the fact that the story involves some people dropping dead.


That said, the fact that Peter points out how the money belongs to them anyway seems to support the view that God was pissed about the lie more than the money. That and how Peter mentions about how Satan filled his heart with evil to lie about the money and keep it for himself. Now, he does mention the keeping a portion bit, but the lie gets mentioned a few times more in the passage than anything else which would tend to suggest that the lie was the bigger deal.

You're missing a few points. I've bolded them. Now why would this guy lie about the money? He didn't have to now did he? Just go "Here's 50% of the proceeds, rest is mine." Makes no sense to make up lies when the truth will do.

Unless of course, he was being forced to give it all up, or "face the consequences". Which explains the lie bit then. Peter was pissed that he wasn't being given the whole pie and that the donor was hiding some of it. Sounds like the act of a tyrant to me.

All that tells me is that this reverential awe is along the lines of "grovel before me piteous creatures, lest I strike you down."

How so?

You're missing a few points. I've bolded them. Now why would this guy lie about the money? He didn't have to now did he? Just go "Here's 50% of the proceeds, rest is mine." Makes no sense to make up lies when the truth will do.

People lie all the time for silly reasons. Maybe he was under the assumption that he would suffer some consequence for not donating everything, whether that was founded or not. Or maybe he was greedy and wanted to keep some of it for himself but still appear to be incredibly generous. I couldn't tell you, I didn't know the guy.

Unless of course, he was being forced to give it all up, or "face the consequences". Which explains the lie bit then. Peter was pissed that he wasn't being given the whole pie and that the donor was hiding some of it. Sounds like the act of a tyrant to me.

To quote The Alma Mater "...there is no reason to assume your interpretation is better than any other". This, like my version, is merely an assumption and an interpretation colored by our preconceptions.

It really troubles me that the video has been removed. I cannot think of a possible reason, surely there's no copyright infringement in speaking out against a church and I doubt the video contained anything overly violent or sick. Youtube's statement, that they do not comment on individual videos is simply poor.

Where is freedom of speech in all this, as much as I understand Youtube is a private company and can do as it pleases, I just think it's cowardice to stand down here.

Is the word Scientology copyright in itself, this constant suppression of criticism by them is just troubling, more so that it's complied with all the time.

It really troubles me that the video has been removed. I cannot think of a possible reason, surely there's no copyright infringement in speaking out against a church and I doubt the video contained anything overly violent or sick. Youtube's statement, that they do not comment on individual videos is simply poor.

Where is freedom of speech in all this, as much as I understand Youtube is a private company and can do as it pleases, I just think it's cowardice to stand down here.

Is the word Scientology copyright in itself, this constant suppression of criticism by them is just troubling, more so that it's complied with all the time.

They're just trying to save poor unprepared mortal minds from exploding by learning the truth all at once. ;)

Seriously, there were no "trade" secrets or anything of that sort revealed (like we don't know them already), but it was a pretty scathing review with some serious cursing, so maybe they're calling it slanderous. Beats me.

How so?


In practically every form of god worship type reverence, there's always the implicit threat of dire consequence for failure to worship. There's the whole "strike you down" thing that Ganesh, Allah, Yahweh, and what have you going on. I'd say there's good grounds to work on the term that this reverence is inspired by fear of self preservation.


People lie all the time for silly reasons. Maybe he was under the assumption that he would suffer some consequence for not donating everything, whether that was founded or not. Or maybe he was greedy and wanted to keep some of it for himself but still appear to be incredibly generous. I couldn't tell you, I didn't know the guy.

And neither do you of course, so that leaves us only with the basic facts of the case, if they are even facts given that it's a story in a book with no way to determine it's accuracy or even veracity. And the basic facts are simple. Either God, or Peter, is worse than any IRS agent in existence. I've never heard of the death penalty for false cash claims in any earthly government.


To quote The Alma Mater "...there is no reason to assume your interpretation is better than any other". This, like my version, is merely an assumption and an interpretation colored by our preconceptions.

I like to take the pessimistic approach. I get fewer nasty surprises that way.

It really troubles me that the video has been removed. I cannot think of a possible reason, surely there's no copyright infringement in speaking out against a church and I doubt the video contained anything overly violent or sick. Youtube's statement, that they do not comment on individual videos is simply poor.

Where is freedom of speech in all this, as much as I understand Youtube is a private company and can do as it pleases, I just think it's cowardice to stand down here.

Is the word Scientology copyright in itself, this constant suppression of criticism by them is just troubling, more so that it's complied with all the time.

Maybe CoS has a squad of lawyers breathing on Youtube's neck, in the hopes of litigating them into oblivion like the Cult Awareness Network so they can take over. Either that or CoS has already penetrated Youtube.

Again, I think the issue is that when they spoke of "fear" they didn't mean it in the same sense that we use it today.

To use dictionary.com, fear is:

1. a distressing emotion aroused by impending danger, evil, pain, etc., whether the threat is real or imagined; the feeling or condition of being afraid.
2. a specific instance of or propensity for such a feeling: an abnormal fear of heights.
3. concern or anxiety; solicitude: a fear for someone's safety.
4. reverential awe, esp. toward God.
5. that which causes a feeling of being afraid; that of which a person is afraid: Cancer is a common fear.

Clearly they are referring to #4 which is somewhat different than a feeling of terror.



Um... no shit, Sherlock?

Exactly - compare with "awesome" vs. "awful", "terrific" vs. "terrible". Awe and fear have had ambiguous connotations forever...

Um... no shit, Sherlock?

Check the toilet, Watson.

This Sherlock fellow must be terribly constipated, what with all this "no shit" business...

The Co$ also stops the sale of "e-meters" on eBay by former members of the organisation, although standard ohmmeter would probably do the job - whatever it is e-meters are supposed to do - just as well.

Linky (http://realitybasedcommunity.net/archive/2008/02/scientology_abu_1.php)

As for scientology... come one people. E-meters ? Those are one of the most blatant and obvious lies ever. Why follow a religion that tries to deceive you from day 1 ?

thats why they dont get the number of new recruits that they used to. too much public understanding of what their religion involves has made people wary of even taking that first "personality test."

Apologies if this is already in the Anonymous vs. Scientology thread, but that thread is just too massive to sift through sometimes. If it is, I'll certainly delete this.

Actor Jason Beghe left the CoS after 14 years. He tears into Scientology in this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07m-IvvpK2E) YouTube video, which appears to be a teaser for a full-length interview.

The article can be found here (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,351287,00.html), unfortunately on FoxNews.com.

So, NSG--thoughts, reactions? We've heard plenty about the joys and evils of Scientologu, but do you think an (admittedly minor) celebrity/actor coming out so strongly against it will change anything? Will other actors follow suit? Will the CoS run over his dog? Will Tom Cruise come out with a counter-video (or just come out)?

Stands to reason. He didn't become particularly famous as a member of it, now that he's left it I've finally heard of him. Guess it's a good move for him.

I just had an idea for Wikipedia vandalism:

*exorcises*

Stands to reason. He didn't become particularly famous as a member of it, now that he's left it I've finally heard of him. Guess it's a good move for him.

LOL Good point.

It seems that Nichole Kiddman has finally regrown her spine when it comes to hers and Toms children. http://news.aol.com/entertainment/movies/movie-news-story/ar/_a/kidman-wants-kids-out-of-scientology/20080418134209990001?icid=100214839x1200294974x1200009540

It seems that Nichole kKddman has finally regrown her spine when it comes to hers and Toms children. http://news.aol.com/entertainment/movies/movie-news-story/ar/_a/kidman-wants-kids-out-of-scientology/20080418134209990001?icid=100214839x1200294974x1200009540

In b4 Kidman is sued into oblivion.