NationStates Jolt Archive

Um, no. Your opinion may differ, but I knew she wouldn't make it too far before ending up this way.

Would you undertake such a trip, with such an ideal as its underpinning?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7344381.stm

An Italian woman artist who was hitch-hiking to the Middle East dressed as a bride to promote world peace has been found murdered in Turkey.

The naked body of Giuseppina Pasqualino di Marineo, 33, known as Pippa Bacca, was found in bushes near the northern city of Gebze on Friday.

She had said she wanted to show that she could put her trust in the kindness of local people.

Um, no. Your opinion may differ, but I knew she wouldn't make it too far before ending up this way.

Would you undertake such a trip, with such an ideal as its underpinning?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7344381.stm

Only in certain countries. People can be good but also capable of the worst feelings.

Depends upon where you are. As for the locals I deal with, hell yeah.

Mind you, she could have met this fate in any country - there are murderers and rapists in every country.

Lesson time: People are not only incredibly stupid, but just plain evil. So, not only would these locals not know how to help you out, they would be secretly plotting how they wanna steal your lollypop at the same time...

Silly. In small towns, especially in the US south, people are generally kind and helpful. Bad folks everywhere.

I think everyone carries in them a shred of goodness such that in ideal circumstances a person could receive assistance from everyone on the planet. The problem is that circumstances at the minute are far from ideal, and I am not so naive as to believe I could survive a trip around the world in bridal attire (particularly given that I'm a man; I'd have the homophobes on me too).

Mind you, I do think that it would be possible to make such a trip. The trick is being someone with a global reputation for indiscriminate and apolitical philanthropy. That's the hard part, but I do think that's possible too. Who knows, maybe some day I'll feel brave enough to do it myself.

I think everyone carries in them a shred of goodness such that in ideal circumstances a person could receive assistance from everyone on the planet. The problem is that circumstances at the minute are far from ideal, and I am not so naive as to believe I could survive a trip around the world in bridal attire (particularly given that I'm a man; I'd have the homophobes on me too).

Mind you, I do think that it would be possible to make such a trip. The trick is being someone with a global reputation for indiscriminate and apolitical philanthropy. That's the hard part, but I do think that's possible too. Who knows, maybe some day I'll feel brave enough to do it myself.

Since you'll probably die on the trip, can I have your stuff?

Silly. In small towns, especially in the US south, people are generally kind and helpful. Bad folks everywhere.

I honestly saw no real difference in the small towns from state to state, as far as kindness and being helpful go. Even in Nevada.

Ne-fucking-vada.

I'd say the vast majority of people are, if not altruistic, at least apathetic and indifferent. Unfortunately, when making a long trip such as the one in the OP, you're bound to run into those few who, broken by circumstance or random chance at birth, are in dire need of rehabilitation. Being dressed in a bridal gown is just like wearing a psychopath magnet, though.

The woman in the OP should have been carrying a cellphone, mace and, perhaps, a knife. One can trust the general good will of humanity but still take precautionary steps.

Due to the fact that every community has xenophobes, one could expect that some locals are not to be trusted if you yourself are not a local.

I'd say the vast majority of people are, if not altruistic, at least apathetic and indifferent. Unfortunately, when making a long trip such as the one in the OP, you're bound to run into those few who, broken by circumstance or random chance at birth, are in dire need of rehabilitation. Being dressed in a bridal gown is just like wearing a psychopath magnet, though.

The woman in the OP should have been carrying a cellphone, mace and, perhaps, a knife. One can trust the general good will of humanity but still take precautionary steps.

Some people can't be rehabilitated...

Since you'll probably die on the trip, can I have your stuff?
You can have the bridal dress. :p

I honestly saw no real difference in the small towns from state to state, as far as kindness and being helpful go. Even in Nevada.

Ne-fucking-vada.
Why would you think Nevada would be different?

Silly. In small towns, especially in the US south, people are generally kind and helpful. Bad folks everywhere.

what? out of the entire world, a place where people are noticably more kind is the US south? :/

Simple, there are lots of nut-jobs out there and some area's aren't that friendly to certain people. Most of the time however, the normal local folks are friendly people. The worst I see though, apart from nut-jobs, are Westren people (although still most of them are friendly folks).

Some people can't be rehabilitated...

I disagree completely. The mind is a malleable thing; if history has shown has anything, it is that people are susceptible to manipulation. If something can be changed, it can be broken and, if it can be broken, it can be fixed.

To travel as a female is, unfortunately, dangerous, more so where there's little sexual freedom - to wear a bridal dress is like a red rag to a bull.

To travel alone as a female in such a way is practically suicidal.

She was simply, fatally, naive.

It doesn't really say much about locals, more about her.

At least they have a suspect in custody who had her cellphone and led cops to her body.

It's a shame she died. I must say, it's not very wise to do something inherintly dangerous, like hitchhiking, without taking basic precautions. She should have never split off from her friend.

I'm sure everyone is kind, just not all at the same time. But then again you sometimes have those grumpy assholes who are always pissed, but can you call them human (Wait what am I saying :P I'm a grumpy asshole, only in the morning though :P)?

what? out of the entire world, a place where people are noticably more kind is the US south? :/

there is social/moral pressure via the church here like you wouldn't imagine......

I think the plan to go to the middle east would be a bad one for starters, she really didn't think this one through. and i mean through Turkey as well, that's just asking for trouble.
Poor woman, had she known that hitchiking is dangerous in foreign countries she might have averted her fate.
{faith in humanity -100}

what? out of the entire world, a place where people are noticably more kind is the US south? :/

Oddly enough, yes. Having traveled almost everywhere in the US, I can say that I get the best hospitality (random kindness, courteousness etc) in the South, even as a noticeably different looking person. I should add that I have not been to rural Alabama, Mississippi etc.

Um, no. Your opinion may differ, but I knew she wouldn't make it too far before ending up this way.

Would you undertake such a trip, with such an ideal as its underpinning?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7344381.stm

You "knew" she would end up murdered?

No you didn't. You might have suspected, you might have believed it was a strong possibility, but short of you stalking her and planning her murder yourself, there was no way you 'knew' this would happen.

I have a strange, extremely naive friend who seems to have more luck than anyone should. She has done similarly odd things, hitchhiking down through the US, into Mexico, then into Guatemala...all the way down to Colombia where she travelled (hitchhiking the whole way) throughout the country for a full year. She was never robbed, threatened or harmed. I honestly don't know how she managed it, as completely lacking in street sense as she is.

I have know very savvy people who got their gear taken at knifepoint the second they crossed over into Guatemala.

You can prepare yourself, but you can never be sure...and you can throw all caution to the winds, and make it...or not.

To travel as a female is, unfortunately, dangerous, more so where there's little sexual freedom - to wear a bridal dress is like a red rag to a bull.

To travel alone as a female in such a way is practically suicidal.

She was simply, fatally, naive.

It doesn't really say much about locals, more about her.

I agree. There is such a thing as the kindness of strangers, but what this woman did was simply reckless.

there is social/moral pressure via the church here like you wouldn't imagine......

False. The kindness has nothing to do with religion.

I wasn't raised in a church-going family, but respect and being polite was drilled in to me. Being polite, respectful, and wearing a smile will get you miles with people in the South, church-going or not. It's just how most people are raised.

There are some places where people are mean just to be mean, too, though...

False. The kindness has nothing to do with religion.

I wasn't raised in a church-going family, but respect and being polite was drilled in to me. Being polite, respectful, and wearing a smile will get you miles with people in the South, church-going or not. It's just how most people are raised.

There are some places where people are mean just to be mean, too, though...

I didn't mean to imply that only the religious are polite or kind. There is a LOT of church guilt around here, for the religious and the non-religious, it's part of the culture.

http://i21.tinypic.com/xfpx69.jpg

Well... her friend got by fine, right? So trusting strangers does work sometimes apparently.

Although separating was pretty dumb of them.

I disagree completely. The mind is a malleable thing; if history has shown has anything, it is that people are susceptible to manipulation. If something can be changed, it can be broken and, if it can be broken, it can be fixed.
Indeed. Of course, there are limits. A mind can only be so broken, and of course you have mental illnesses that might require a cure of some sort we may not have yet.

But on the whole, you're right.
To travel as a female is, unfortunately, dangerous, more so where there's little sexual freedom - to wear a bridal dress is like a red rag to a bull.

To travel alone as a female in such a way is practically suicidal.

She was simply, fatally, naive.

It doesn't really say much about locals, more about her.

Perhaps, but the idea was a message of peace. She was foolish in what she did, but she did at least do it for the right reasons. When you consider how often someone is murdered when they're doing things for the wrong reasons, that says something very good about her.
At least they have a suspect in custody who had her cellphone and led cops to her body.

It's a shame she died. I must say, it's not very wise to do something inherintly dangerous, like hitchhiking, without taking basic precautions. She should have never split off from her friend.
True indeed. She was definitely acting foolish there.

Oddly enough, yes. Having traveled almost everywhere in the US, I can say that I get the best hospitality (random kindness, courteousness etc) in the South, even as a noticeably different looking person. I should add that I have not been to rural Alabama, Mississippi etc.
There seem to be a number of nice people in Hawaii... although that's south, I don't think it's "the South" that you meant.

Although people in Canada (outside the Greater Toronto Area) tend to be helpful and not dicks... I haven't been to the South in the US so I don't know if this kindness is comparable...

As a general rule, people everywhere, regardless of nationality, are bastard covered bastards with bastard filling, but every once in a while, you run across an exception to the rule and are pleasantly surprised.

There are some places where people are mean just to be mean, too, though...

New York City springs to mind. Spent a couple of days there and people there seemed to take some kind of weird pleasure in being as nasty as possible for no other reason than that they could.

I'd say the vast majority of people are, if not altruistic, at least apathetic and indifferent. Unfortunately, when making a long trip such as the one in the OP, you're bound to run into those few who, broken by circumstance or random chance at birth, are in dire need of rehabilitation. Being dressed in a bridal gown is just like wearing a psychopath magnet, though.

The woman in the OP should have been carrying a cellphone, mace and, perhaps, a knife. One can trust the general good will of humanity but still take precautionary steps.

Agreed. Why a bridal gown in the first place? This reminds me of the joke where the guy on a sinking boat refuses help from the crew, a helicopter and a passing ship, all the while claiming "no thank you, GOD will save me". When he drowns and goes to heaven, he asks God why He didn't save him, and God replies "I sent you the crew, a helicopter and a ship, why didn't you take any of them?"

In short, God doesn't want idiots for followers, and offers help in ways that are sometimes not immediately obvious. This poor woman confused faith with BLIND faith, and it got her killed. I feel sad for her and for humanity, but I can't say that I'm all that surprised.

what? out of the entire world, a place where people are noticably more kind is the US south? :/

:rolleyes:

Yes. Rural America is chock full of kind and helpful people. Where they tend to get surly and territorial is when you assume yourself automatically better than them, or walk in with complete disregard for politeness and niceties. And it isn't always rural and South, either. I just watched the film Gone Baby Gone, and I don't think I'd last a minute in Dorcester, south Boston.

As a general rule, people everywhere, regardless of nationality, are bastard covered bastards with bastard filling, but every once in a while, you run across an exception to the rule and are pleasantly surprised.



New York City springs to mind. Spent a couple of days there and people there seemed to take some kind of weird pleasure in being as nasty as possible for no other reason than that they could.

Thank you, Drs. Cox and Kelso.

I've also seen some very kind and delightful people in NYC. It takes all kinds, even there.

Silly. In small towns, especially in the US south, people are generally kind and helpful. Bad folks everywhere.
I second MrBobby. I would be especially wary of the locals in the US South.

New York City springs to mind. Spent a couple of days there and people there seemed to take some kind of weird pleasure in being as nasty as possible for no other reason than that they could.

As opposed to the ray of light that calls people bastard covered bastards? :D

Thank you, Drs. Cox and Kelso.

I've also seen some very kind and delightful people in NYC. It takes all kinds, even there.

I've yet to see a more succinct summing up of human nature. Just because it came from a TV script, doesn't mean it's not true. As for NYC, I suppose it's not beyond the bounds of possibility for there to be "kind and delightful people" there, I'm just saying I didn't see any evidence of it.

As opposed to the ray of light that calls people bastard covered bastards? :D

Never claimed to be a "ray of light" myself, but I do try to avoid being pointedly rude and unpleasant to complete strangers for no particular reason.

I second MrBobby. I would be especially wary of the locals in the US South.

why? have you been?

New York City springs to mind. Spent a couple of days there and people there seemed to take some kind of weird pleasure in being as nasty as possible for no other reason than that they could.

Hah, I meant in the South, actually. I don't think where I currently live is full of pleasant people. But most other places I've been 'round here are really great.

And, to what Smunkee said, I don't really think there was a lot of religious guilt involved in the upbringing of most people where I'm from. You were just expected to be nice because it was the right thing to do and would help you get on in life much more easily than being mean, not just to please God.

I second MrBobby. I would be especially wary of the locals in the US South.

I would too. US South locals make me wary. Plus, one hears so much racist stories coming out of the South... Hell, I would be wary of Americans in general, no matter from where in the US they´re from. No offense, I lived there for 2 years and I´ve never seen a more paranoid society that the American. Not to mention how ignorant some people can be over there. (oh, and I´m not generalizing, not everyone in the US is ignorant)

I would too. US South locals make me wary. Plus, one hears so much racist stories coming out of the South... Hell, I would be wary of Americans in general, no matter from where in the US they´re from. No offense, I lived there for 2 years and I´ve never seen a more paranoid society that the American. Not to mention how ignorant some people can be over there. (oh, and I´m not generalizing, not everyone in the US is ignorant)

Well, living in the Northeastern US, I would say people are relatively ambivalent, but far too busy rushing around and whatnot to really be nice to anyone. In a few years I may take a nice trip across the USA, if I live that long and if I make it back, maybe I'll have a more solid opinion one way or the other.

If you respect their beliefs in traditions.
ie:
don't go through Muslim countries dressed as a bride
don't go through the South with anything opposed to gun rights
don't go through Harlem in a Klansman uniform

Hah, I meant in the South, actually. I don't think where I currently live is full of pleasant people. But most other places I've been 'round here are really great.

And, to what Smunkee said, I don't really think there was a lot of religious guilt involved in the upbringing of most people where I'm from. You were just expected to be nice because it was the right thing to do and would help you get on in life much more easily than being mean, not just to please God.
I guess it depends on where exactly you are from. I live in the middle of the Bible belt, my husband nearly lost his job when we quit going to church, atheists wear WWJD bracelets and have Jesus fish on their car so people don't gossip.

Oddly enough, yes. Having traveled almost everywhere in the US, I can say that I get the best hospitality (random kindness, courteousness etc) in the South, even as a noticeably different looking person. I should add that I have not been to rural Alabama, Mississippi etc.

I was going to say, that can be true but you have to know where you can and can't go still. My bf has family in Atlanta and he loves it there, but he knows that as a black man there are places he just can't go. I think it sucks, but he says he appreciates that the racism is more upfront, unlike in CA where people just pretend not to be racist.

I honestly don't know how she managed it, as completely lacking in street sense as she is.


Bomb vest to a deadman's switch. Nothing deters a mugger more than the knowledge that he might be turned into dog kibble along with his victim. *nods*

New York City springs to mind. Spent a couple of days there and people there seemed to take some kind of weird pleasure in being as nasty as possible for no other reason than that they could.

I went to New York city at a very young age once. Some guy tried to get me to buy him a video game in a store for $5, which seems to be underpriced for any form of game so I refused. No idea what he really wanted though.

I went to New York city at a very young age once. Some guy tried to get me to buy him a video game in a store for $5, which seems to be underpriced for any form of game so I refused. No idea what he really wanted though.

I went to NYC with some friends, one of whom passed out on the pavement one night after drinking.

Someone woke him up, bought him a bottle of water and a bar of chocolate and then gave him $5 for the taxi ride back to his hotel.

He was, like, anti-mugged or something - it was bizarre.

In the US, a good general rule is the more rural the area, the more likely you will find hospitable folks.

Evil is the nature of mankind.

I voted no. But I think it would depend in some ways.

An Italian in Turkey....if Im not mistaken, the Turks arent to fond of Italians...or Greeks...or....well...anyone in Europe:p

In the US, a good general rule is the more rural the area, the more likely you will find hospitable folks.



That depends. I wouldnt bet on that. In half the places outsiders arent welcome.

The Middle-East tends to have a bad reputation in general. Most of the countries there have citizens that will happily commit crimes because they get away with it. Xenophobia isn't even a factor, either.

The Middle-East tends to have a bad reputation in general. Most of the countries there have citizens that will happily commit crimes because they get away with it. Xenophobia isn't even a factor, either.



:rolleyes:


Please, prove this.

In the US, a good general rule is the more rural the area, the more likely you will find hospitable folks.

Or vicious killers surrounded by 200 miles of grassland with nowhere to run for help as you are dragged down by attack dogs.

Overall though, I would say those types of people are only a majority in cheap horror films... or are they..dun dun dunnn...

Why would you think Nevada would be different?

Well, driving (actually, riding) through it and seeing the general looks of the communities gave me the idea that it wasn't quite so savory. It wasn't, but the people were still kind and helpful.

That depends. I wouldnt bet on that. In half the places outsiders arent welcome.

Only when they drive Beemers and act like a better-than-thou stereotypical city slickers looking down their noses at anyone who has never been on Wall Street or Times Square. I've driven all across the western and mid-western US and never had problems.

Only when they drive Beemers and act like a better-than-thou stereotypical city slickers looking down their noses at anyone who has never been on Wall Street or Times Square. I've driven all across the western and mid-western US and never had problems.

Drive anything down to the south into small towns and you'll see many people who just dont like outsiders.

Well, living in the Northeastern US, I would say people are relatively ambivalent, but far too busy rushing around and whatnot to really be nice to anyone. In a few years I may take a nice trip across the USA, if I live that long and if I make it back, maybe I'll have a more solid opinion one way or the other.

Clarification: I lived in East Lansing, MI. Midwestern US was a cold place to foreigners, and I'm not referring to the weather. MI, I disliked and always will.

I visited New Orleans when I was 18. I thought that city was a pretty cool place. I hope the South is the same as Louisiana, but I'm positive it isn't.

As for the rest of the nation... meh... some Americans are nice, the great majority doesn't seem that way. I could be wrong, but what do I know. We Spaniards are considered arses so...:p

...as a black man there are places he just can't go. I think it sucks, but he says he appreciates that the racism is more upfront, unlike in CA where people just pretend not to be racist.

You get that here in MN too, where people have raised 'passive-aggressive' to an art form. There are all kinds of little 'codes' that people use that just irk the living hell out of me. It's like having to learn to speak a different language or something.

The Middle-East tends to have a bad reputation in general. Most of the countries there have citizens that will happily commit crimes because they get away with it. Xenophobia isn't even a factor, either.

Nonsense.

One of the pillars of Islam is hospitality, if I recall correctly.

With all due respect to the family of the victim.... what she did seems at the height of stupidity to me. To go through an area already known to be dangerous, in a costume that very well could be found as offensive to many people... wtf was she thinking?! Either a mistaken faith in humanity, or misplaced logic.

I honestly saw no real difference in the small towns from state to state, as far as kindness and being helpful go. Even in Nevada.

Ne-fucking-vada.
Maybe I'm biased. Other than one year in California, I've always lived in the Bible Belt. Oklahoma, Texas, Florida and South Carolina. Perhaps it's just a small town thing. But Southerners have always been known for hospitality.

Ever heard JFK's saying- "Washington is a city of Northern charm and Southern efficiency."

My apologies to anyone from Washington, D.C.

As a general rule, people everywhere, regardless of nationality, are bastard covered bastards with bastard filling, but every once in a while, you run across an exception to the rule and are pleasantly surprised.

New York City springs to mind. Spent a couple of days there and people there seemed to take some kind of weird pleasure in being as nasty as possible for no other reason than that they could.

If you go to New York City and act like an ass, people will be glad to treat you like one.

People are incredibly nice in New York City -- it's just that it happens so fast that the untrained eye might not notice it. :)

Nonsense.One of the pillars of Islam is hospitality, if I recall correctly.

So? One of the pillars of Christianity is tithing, and how many Christians can honestly say they give 10% of their income to their church? There's a wide, wide gulf between 'should do' and 'does' which, ironically, loops back to my earlier assertion re:human nature.

If you go to New York City and act like an ass, people will be glad to treat you like one. People are incredibly nice in New York City -- it's just that it happens so fast that the untrained eye might not notice it. :)

That's a hell of a lot of assumption to pack into one sentence. Regardless of my location, I try to treat people with civility at a minimum, unless I have a reason to adjust my behaviour/attitude in either direction.

That's a hell of a lot of assumption to pack into one sentence. Regardless of my location, I try to treat people with civility at a minimum, unless I have a reason to adjust my behaviour/attitude in either direction.

I was using "you" as a more global "people", not you in particular.

A lot of people (not you -- people in general) go into NYC with an attitude, because they seem to think that this will get them some respect or something. These are usually the ones that get treated poorly.

But Southerners have always been known for hospitality...
... to their kind. Southerners have also always been known for frightening violence, against the wrong kind.

... to their kind. Southerners have also always been known for frightening violence, against the wrong kind.
As a Southerner I can be offended by that, but can't deny it. :p

Maybe I'm biased. Other than one year in California, I've always lived in the Bible Belt. Oklahoma, Texas, Florida and South Carolina. Perhaps it's just a small town thing. But Southerners have always been known for hospitality.


QFT!

Southern hospitality FTW!

So? One of the pillars of Christianity is tithing, and how many Christians can honestly say they give 10% of their income to their church? There's a wide, wide gulf between 'should do' and 'does' which, ironically, loops back to my earlier assertion re:human nature.



Five Pillars of Islam = Ten Commandments more or less.

So your analogy with the tithing is a poor one.

But Southerners have always been known for hospitality.

As long as your not black, mexican, gay, or a Jew, sure. :p

If you want truly awesome hospitality. I hear Syria is the place to go. Syriasly.

Five Pillars of Islam = Ten Commandments more or less.

So your analogy with the tithing is a poor one.
"Hospitality" is not one of the five, anyway ("charity" is, along with believing in the creed, praying five times daily, fasting during Ramadan, and making a pilgrimage to Mecca if practicable). And I think the analogy to the Ten Commandments is a poor one, also.

Five Pillars of Islam = Ten Commandments more or less. So your analogy with the tithing is a poor one.

And so it is, but not for the reason you state:"Hospitality" is not one of the five, anyway ("charity" is, along with believing in the creed, praying five times daily, fasting during Ramadan, and making a pilgrimage to Mecca if practicable).

The general point I was making, though, I think, remains valid.

Not in Britain you can't.